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recipes [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:47
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that has
00:01:52
spent a lifetime of income on guitars and socks he is the captain For Those About to Rock I salute you
00:02:00
it's good to be seen and it's good to see hey have you tried the meatloaf Captain ha your mom's
00:02:07
[Music] meatloaf we'll try washing it down with some swing state by sibling rivalry
00:02:16
micro Brewery garage grade five out of five bottle caps swing state has a light malt body with citrusy hop character
00:02:24
that leads to a dry hoppy finish I have a light malt body and this week's beer was brought to us by These Fine Young
00:02:30
characters first up we have Nicole in the very mysterious Parts Unknown next let's say hi to Rosie in New South Wales
00:02:38
Australia hello Rosie also in the surfing capital of the world is Australia the surfing capital of the
00:02:44
world Captain not really for sure mate anyway we have Amy in Brisbane Australia next up we have gamma in Glasgow United
00:02:53
Kingdom muh and also we have Fanny in Iceland and we have Daniel from Cannonsburg Pennsylvania Daniel says
00:03:00
keep up the great work I like your jib and this show makes my workouts so much better it's scientifically proven that
00:03:07
working out affects the quality of yoi and last but not least we have Ashley in South Dakota who says I have been
00:03:14
binging on this show so much Ashley loves the tone of the show and the level of the detail but she does have one
00:03:21
problem with our show the captain she is running out of episodes well if you'd like to donate to the Beer fund go to
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True Crim garage.com click on the Donate button and if you are looking for more episodes specifically our older episodes
00:03:33
they are available in the iTunes Store and on our website as well yeah my work is slowing down so hopefully we get back
00:03:39
in the garage real soon uh some extra time in the garage to put out another bonus episode that's enough of the
00:03:45
business everybody gather around grab a chair grab some meatloaf grab a beer and
00:03:49
let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] this is episode two of the Kelsey shelling case Kelsey shelling was 21
00:04:15
years old and 8 weeks pregnant when she vanished on February 4th 2013 she had her first doctor's visit of
00:04:22
the pregnancy on that day and she sent out pictures of the ultrasound that she received during that visit to her mother
00:04:29
and and to her boyfriend well after the trip to the doctors and after a shift at
00:04:34
work Kelsey drove about 2 hours to peblo Colorado to visit her boyfriend the father of her child Dante Lucas Kelsey's
00:04:42
family then will report her missing to law enforcement and that's when law enforcement reach out to Dante Lucas and
00:04:48
they have a sit down and Dante does not deny seeing her that night he you know there's no question that he saw her that
00:04:54
night yeah and then 10 days later law enforcement are going to find Kelsey's car and and this is where we start to
00:05:00
see that there's quite a bit of movement with Kelsey's vehicle that does not completely align with Dante's story yeah
00:05:06
we start seeing a lot of discrepancy in his accounts and this will bring further
00:05:11
into question the location of Kelsey shelling this makes it a lot different than a normal missing person case she's
00:05:17
2 hours away from her home she is now they find her car we would assume that if she you know went missing on her own
00:05:25
that we wouldn't find her vehicle and so now they have to start viewing this not
00:05:29
just as a missing person case but a possible homicide yeah this is where they start to suspect Foul Play is
00:05:35
involved and when they bring Dante in for questioning his story starts to fall apart at this point he lawyers up and
00:05:42
then he shuts down and the case starts to go cold yeah the case goes cold but it seems like with a lot of missing
00:05:48
person cases me being you know as far as true crime goes I think one of my favorite if there was a category right
00:05:55
my favorite category of True Crime would probably be missing person mhm and I think with a lot of cases like if you
00:06:03
look at if you study the Johnny gosh case or if you study like Mara Murray with missing person cases there always
00:06:09
seems to be some weirdness and this case yeah the case starts going cold but the
00:06:14
weirdness just begins yeah this starts with a Facebook message okay this is a direct message to uh Kelsey's mother
00:06:23
Laura and this comes from a woman who says her name is Jenna mlan this woman she's asking in to remain anonymous so
00:06:31
we we must assume this is a fake name that she's giving uh but she says that she needs to remain anonymous because
00:06:37
her own personal life is in danger uh this is when Jenna mlan then decides to have a man take over the communication
00:06:46
with Kel Kelsey's mother Laura it makes you wonder is this a lead or is this just some whackadoo well he sends Laura
00:06:53
a message and this message says ma'am please your daughter is not dead she will be home
00:06:59
alive this man then goes on to tell Laura that Dante had hired a man to kill Kelsey and then this man decided that he
00:07:10
didn't want to go through with it and instead of killing Kelsey he sold her into sex slavery he says that the man
00:07:18
had told Dante that he did in fact carry out the hit that he did in fact kill Kelsey but what he did was he dug a fake
00:07:27
grave showed it to Dante and you know I know this show is already you know it's already rated E for a good reason but uh
00:07:35
this next part is a little difficult um he also says that he the man told Dante that an abortion was performed on Kelsey
00:07:45
before she was killed and that he the man had showed a video of this abortion that was not obviously not willingly
00:07:55
participated in by Kelsey I was not ready for that yeah I really wasn't ready to to say that so
00:08:02
let me just get my head around this story so far we have a lady that contacts Kelsey's mother yes through
00:08:09
Facebook because you know that's the best way to be personal these days right but anyways well they do have the help
00:08:15
Kelsey website and then they the help Kelsey help find Kelsey group on uh Facebook so probably that's why this
00:08:23
happened so a lady contacts her mhm and then a guy takes over the conversation she wants to stay Anonymous right and
00:08:33
this guy is coming forward not saying that he put Kelsey into sex trafficking right but that he heard from another guy
00:08:42
yeah he he knows of this situation he knows this man that was hired by Dante to kill her and and and here's what's
00:08:51
seems a little fishy to me about the story but then he says the guy couldn't kill Kelsey so what they did was they
00:08:59
performed a unwilling abortion on her well he says he chose to sell her into sex slavery
00:09:07
rather than to to kill her right um and maybe this was just a money thing but but right right so you get paid from
00:09:13
Dante which has no money that comes from no money pays him to kill this girl and
00:09:20
then he then doubles up by oh I'm not going to kill her I'm actually going to sell her into sex trafficking yeah and
00:09:26
then Dante thinks that Kelsey's actually been killed because he shown that video
00:09:30
and he shown a fake grave that this this man had dug right so then why is this guy that didn't actually do the crime
00:09:39
why is he reaching out to Kelsey's parents well he's saying that he knows where Kelsey is located um that I
00:09:46
believe he says that she had been sold into slavery and and shipped to like the East Coast M and he says he knows where
00:09:54
she's being kept and then at some point he might be able to help free her and return her home um but of course to do
00:10:02
this he's going to need money to do so uh of course yes the Mr Good Samaritan coming forth here um he wants
00:10:12
$50,000 oh that's it to execute this plan and bring Kelsey home uh he wants $25,000 of that upfront um and he's he's
00:10:22
saying that this money should be delivered to a man in Vancouver Washington at a McDonald's restaurant of
00:10:28
all all Place well I'd like to deliver a giant punch to this guy's fat forehead well I'll tell you what this is another
00:10:35
reason why I like Kelsey's family so much they've worked so hard on this investigation and when they receive this
00:10:41
new information that this doesn't stumble them one bit this this shows their strength and and how they carry on
00:10:48
yeah they obviously this is a this is a hoax right this this it it looks if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
00:10:56
it's probably a duck so what they're told rhinoceros what the information that they're given is that they are to meet
00:11:04
at at this McDonald's restaurant in Vancouver Washington on a specific date and specific time and the person they're
00:11:11
going to be looking for is a name a man named Marcus he's an African-American man and he will be there and he will be
00:11:18
wearing a red ball cap um so what Kelsey's family does is they get a News Group involved in the situation they
00:11:27
actually reached out to the Vancouver Police Department first to kind of set up a sting right for whatever reason
00:11:33
that fell through and I believe that that was on Vancouver's end not on Kelsey's family's end that it had fallen
00:11:40
through so they get reach out to this news organization and the News organization sets up shop at this
00:11:45
McDonald's restaurant on that date at that time and sure enough man there is an African-American man there wearing a
00:11:53
red ball cap right he's sitting at a at a booth by himself he doesn't in a booth
00:11:59
doesn't order anything and this is when he's approached and he's starting to be questioned and what time is this at
00:12:06
again it l it looked to me to be daytime I don't know what time it was cuz I mean
00:12:11
if this guy has the capability of ordering a MC griddle and he doesn't lock him up well well the thing here is
00:12:19
this is where it gets even a little more strange is the guy doesn't even fully deny the whole thing right he he tells I
00:12:27
don't think he's fully Ware that he's being questioned by a news group right I think that they have hidden cameras or
00:12:33
whatever so he says that they need to go out to the parking lot this I guess is where he planned the exchange of money
00:12:39
would take place and once they're out there he starts getting grilled you know um we we have a news guy come out of out
00:12:46
out of the bushes and starts saying you know who are you why are you doing this where's Kelsey what do you know why are
00:12:52
you trying to rip off this family for $50,000 and I think before he could get all of that out you know the man
00:13:00
explains that you know why are you here and this guy that's let's say quote unquote named Marcus he says well I'm
00:13:06
here to pick up some money well who are you here to pick up the money from I don't know I was just told to be here to
00:13:11
pick up some money right do you know how much money you're here to pick up uh no
00:13:15
not exactly uh why are you here to pick up money do you have a girl you know and
00:13:20
he and and he says something like he's been told that there was some exchange that happened at another time in another
00:13:28
place and that he was sent by an unknown to go to McDonald's and pick up the money for
00:13:35
this and take it back to this person I think where this ends up leading that they don't end up being able to trace
00:13:43
this to another individual and this person involved the the man named Marcus at the McDonald's
00:13:50
he does seem a little clueless it's it might just be all a put on who knows but right right but they don't really seem
00:13:57
to have much to charge him with they do investigate this a bit Yeah but logically speaking right is this guy
00:14:05
involved I probably not it's not that hard to if if you were going to transfer a large sum of money or pick up a large
00:14:12
sum of money it wouldn't be that hard to go I'm going to P I'm going to pay my buddy Marcus or pay this guy a friend of
00:14:19
a friend of a friend or even on Craigs List hey I just need you to pick up this money or pick up this package I'm not
00:14:26
even going to tell you what it is and I'll pay you 100 bucks where the investigation goes is they trace some
00:14:33
emails that was sent to this guy that went to pick up the money MH and they trace the emails back to Russia at some
00:14:41
point which which does really kind of scare everybody because then they're thinking well maybe there is some truth
00:14:47
to this sex slave uh portion of the investigation that we're talking about um what I think we have here is probably
00:14:55
somebody that some some real dirt B bag that decides I'm going to extort money from a family that's hurting and I'm
00:15:03
going to get make a few bucks off of this and he proba it's probably somebody in the states that has figured out a way
00:15:10
to to send these emails around and then it then it looks like it's coming from Russia right basically what you're doing
00:15:16
is you're repointing repointing your IP address correct so it seems like it's coming from Russia but it's actually you
00:15:23
know coming from somewhere in Indiana so some very scary information that that really is just a big speed bump in this
00:15:31
case and doesn't really go anywhere but it kind of goes back to what you and I have talked about in the Beverly pots
00:15:37
disappearance where you have a guy that shows up and he's demanding a ransom and
00:15:42
you know in these situations Captain you and I agree 100% if you get in the middle of some kind of Investigation you
00:15:49
try to extort money from a family that is in need that a family that is hurting that is looking for a loved one right
00:15:56
you the charges that are that should be brought up against you should not only be for extortion but a certain higher
00:16:03
level of extortion because you're involved in a missing person's case or or a you know an an unsolved death and I
00:16:11
think yesterday we're as clear or as Champions as we normally are for Kelsey's family I mean I think they've
00:16:17
done an exceptional job and I think you know follow every lead you know look for
00:16:24
every answer you can and all by the way when the cops aren't doing what you think they're supposed to do hey you
00:16:30
know call them out on that too that takes a strong family you which is led by her mother a very strong uh woman
00:16:36
that's great and that's why she was trying to get CBI to take over this investigation that's all taking place
00:16:42
late last year another thing that we see going on at the same time is that another individual gets involved in the
00:16:48
investigation and this is Psychic Detective Troy Griffin and we've had the opportunity to discuss a few cases with
00:16:54
him and we wanted to play a little bit of that conversation for you today regard regarding Kelsey's
00:17:01
[Music] case Troy you are a Psychic Detective and you've been involved in the Kelsey
00:17:19
shelling investigation uh have you met with her family okay so I have I've been working with her mother Laura and um I
00:17:27
got involved in late October of last year I think it was um and Laura was referred to me from a um Advocate
00:17:39
through through another County so um that was in late October I met with Laura for about 3 hours um I was able to
00:17:48
validate stuff on Kelsey uh you know people don't know and so um I've been with Laura a couple times um the first
00:17:57
time I went to p was in November maybe it sep I don't know October November and she took me to
00:18:06
Dante Lucas's house grandmother's house and just gave me a tour of pleo and things that she thought I should see um
00:18:13
the second time I went to pleo um I actually was being interviewed by uh ABC News Nightline and I took them with me
00:18:23
um down to poblo uh because Laura had a lead on a county road down there she wanted to check
00:18:32
out and so what I have seen in my vision um I know what I'm looking for I have an
00:18:40
idea where it's at uh I have to make time to get back down there when it's not really winterish and um and see if
00:18:49
I'm pick if I if I can find the spot I'm picking up can you share with us some of
00:18:53
those details that are not known about the case well it's pretty much in the open as far as what I validate it you
00:18:59
know the answer the short answer is no um because I work under confidentiality agreements and and so pretty much
00:19:05
Kelsey's case is pretty much out in the open it's a matter of um the police department and pleo mishandled evidence
00:19:14
you know did a lot of things incorrectly which is normal there's been the politics involved there's been the
00:19:20
change of personnel after 4 years of not letting it go they finally have Let It Go and so
00:19:27
now it's a new set of eyes to retrace everything and see what they can find so there's something that
00:19:32
you're going to go look for and I imagine after four years we are talking about remains correct so on Kelsey's
00:19:39
case um I've never been to pleo and there's a big Reservoir down there but what I saw in my vision is like white
00:19:48
chalky Stone and water and I felt like there's a lot of pollen around bushes when I describe what I'm looking for and
00:19:58
when to Google Earth a place by PLO and PLO Reservoir matches what I'm looking for and the white chalky Stone they call
00:20:06
Shell now the area that I'm looking at is um has a name contribute to a bush that puts out a lot of pollen that
00:20:17
pollen was also found on our car so the couple times I've been there I've really gone down to support Laura
00:20:25
and I haven't had time to get into the Reservoir because of winter to look where I want to look when you're having
00:20:33
these Visions are you seeing just the remains or do you see the attack and the events as they unfold I do see the
00:20:40
events so in Kelsey's case um I did see the events of what happened and you know
00:20:48
discuss them so I just take the notes on that and sometimes my work is just validating what the police already know
00:20:55
so was this something that was planned was her murder planned or was this a crime of passion uh to me it was um not
00:21:03
really a crime of passion but it was a actual um I think an act of rage you know he his mom thought he was going to
00:21:10
be a basketball star take her out of poverty be the hero a girlfriend gets pregnant mom says take care of it and
00:21:17
Mom is violent herself who' just been arrested for domestic violence from running from a warrant you know I think
00:21:24
that it was him wanting Kelsey not to have the baby and she was absolutely going to have the baby so I think it was
00:21:32
an act of Rage so this is not necessarily planned but more of an act of Rage maybe some hatred that had been
00:21:38
building over time I believe it came from Mom Mom you know mom pushing him well what is Dante's mother's
00:21:45
involvement in this whole thing we know that she picked him up from the Walmart is she simply involved after the fact or
00:21:52
was she involved in the murder as well Sarah had a big role in this and you think about Dante he's he's not too
00:22:01
highly intelligent it's an act of Rage um you know he's what 20 years old he doesn't really know people that help him
00:22:09
out in a situation like that but you know Mom [Music] does it's interesting here captain that
00:22:22
Troy says he makes the statement that Dante's mother had a big role in this MH and what I find interesting about that
00:22:29
is if he is right this kind of goes along with an unspoken theory that that I kind of came up with not my own Theory
00:22:38
but when I was reviewing the lawsuit well something you came across yeah not something that you invented yeah when
00:22:44
reviewing the lawsuit that was filed against Dante's family and what was her possible involvement because what we see
00:22:52
in this document it leads one to believe after reading it that not only do we have a situ where Dante was
00:22:59
communicating a lot with Kelsey trying to get her down to peblo MH but that the mother may have been emailing or texting
00:23:07
Kelsey as well Dante's mother which which is anytime that you have 20 year olds and a relationship and then the
00:23:14
mother is getting involved on either side that that is a direct sign that this is not a healthy relationship and
00:23:21
the thing that's even more Sinister about these communications that they're talking about in this lawsuit is that
00:23:27
these Communications would have been taking place before the doctor's visit meaning that she has at least one if not
00:23:35
two members of the Dante Lucas family trying to get her to peblo before that doctor's appointment and why is that
00:23:42
important we ask because that is the first confirmation medical confirmation that she's pregnant I don't want to
00:23:50
misspeak CU you know I have no experience of this I don't have any children myself I'm obviously not a
00:23:57
female that you know of you're sterile I think it's clear that Kelsey was experienced some changes M and and and I
00:24:04
think women probably way more than men know their bodies right and and what's going on with them biologically and I
00:24:11
think she knew before she even had to take a test and then I think at probably some point she probably did take a test
00:24:18
yeah and now so then she's going okay I have all these feelings I get this gut feeling uh I I'm experiencing some
00:24:24
changes you know probably you know she was late M uh and then then she takes a test probably on
00:24:31
her own and that's when the mother starts contacting her yeah yeah it sounds like she had taken according to
00:24:38
Kelsey's mother she had taken a couple of these home pregnancy tests right and you know now she's reaching out to Dante
00:24:44
and he's aware of the situation now they're aware that she's going to go to the doctor's office to get confirmation
00:24:51
of such I've had a lot of female friends talk to me about this same scenario where when they were younger and they
00:24:57
had a boy boyfriend that they end up getting pregnant and they did a home test and then you have to go to the
00:25:03
doctor to get the confirmation but in that process that the boyfriend's mother contacted them and basically because the
00:25:10
boyfriend's mother thought this this baby coming into their lives was going to ruin their son's life and maybe
00:25:18
possibly hinder This Girl's Life that they start advocating for uh abortion right and I think it's very clear in
00:25:26
this situation that what was happening and I think it's very clear that that was the motive and I think you're
00:25:31
exactly right this is what is part of that unspoken theory that the family is presenting in this lawsuit so let's get
00:25:39
back into what uh Troy has to [Music] say Troy do you believe that Kelsey's remains were transferred in her own
00:25:55
vehicle you know I don't think they were I think I think Kelsey's remains were transferred in another vehicle but there
00:26:01
was that pollen on her car again you know I don't solve crimes which I make very clear I can only tell you what I
00:26:08
see feel think and sometimes it's just the validation so we know that there's pollen on our car we know that the dust
00:26:16
that was on her car matches that white shell stuff so these are things that we do know so in regards to the remains you
00:26:23
are seeing a location that involves water so are they in water or are they around water you know that's a tough one
00:26:32
um you know water yes you know it's it's you hope she's wasn't in water but there's a high probability you know one
00:26:41
of the things that I had discussed with Laura when I first met is that I felt like where Kelsey is is where they fish
00:26:47
does this have anything to do with the situation where there was this man that came forward he was fishing he finds
00:26:53
what he believes to be human remains but he delays reporting this is is this a different location yeah so the the thing
00:27:01
that you're talking about he reported is a pond that is directly well they call it a lake but um directly across from
00:27:09
the hospital where her car was found um you know Common Sense tells you that you
00:27:15
know you have a hospital that's very busy it's the hospital's parking lot across the street KS walked around
00:27:21
fished around you know it's kind of a center of town type thing yeah don't you think that's a little bit too too close
00:27:28
and right really you know mom's not that stupid what about the apartment that his
00:27:35
mother was living in in in the stain that was reported yeah they were living living in a lowincome property so what I
00:27:43
read what I've heard is that um Sarah never paid the rent on time in February when Kelsey went missing the rent
00:27:51
started the show up on time for the next few months landlord got a call or the owner of the property got a call because
00:27:57
his electric was shut off and went over there to find an absolutely disgusting pig sty they pulled a carpet
00:28:05
up in the bedroom and there was a pull blood pool stain underneath the carpet and just to be clear this is Dante's
00:28:14
bedroom or Sarah's bedroom well Dante split his time between his grandmother's house and this house and I don't know if
00:28:19
the boys shared a room so it would be obviously his room so from the Visions you're seeing she was killed in that
00:28:27
apartment yes in that house yes and could you tell how long between the murder and when she
00:28:33
was disposed of how long was she in that property no that that I don't know um that part I don't see did you have any
00:28:41
Visions on whether this was strangulation or is this blunt force trauma that could have been part of it
00:28:47
strangulation blunt force uh possibly on the ground you know Kelsey fought back so you know my my my Visions are that
00:28:55
she probably uh strangled ation fell to the floor fighting back he probably you know her head on the floor can you give
00:29:03
us any more information on where her remains might be found no you know as far as the exact location you know I
00:29:10
keep that to myself um but you know I'm going to continue as long as it takes to
00:29:17
try to locate the remains if possible you know the the sad part of cases like this is sometimes you'll never find them
00:29:27
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out Rosetta stone.com it's a GameChanger Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about
00:31:04
why I thought it was an Eco move few worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
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just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today want to thank Troy for taking the
00:31:34
time to talk about the case with us uh the thing here is Captain you know some people it's a LoveHate relationship with
00:31:41
these psychic detectives right the people that get involved in these investigations yeah and I I always find
00:31:46
it interesting and like I said as far as categories go of True Crime I'm definitely really interested in missing
00:31:53
person cases and then a lot of missing person cases while you're doing your your internet research right you can
00:32:00
you'll come across you know maybe it's a YouTube video or maybe it's a website that has a psychic reading about the
00:32:07
missing person yeah and the thing here is Captain I'm by having this conversation doesn't mean that I put a
00:32:15
whole lot of weight into it or doesn't not mean it doesn't mean that I believe in psychics here's the thing my opinion
00:32:21
of Investigations is that I'm happy to sit down and talk with anybody it it because there's no different difference
00:32:29
between somebody having a vision or something coming to them than a gut feeling I might have on a Case right and
00:32:36
I kind of like the fact that Troy goes by Psychic Detective because he's not purely going off of Just visions that
00:32:45
he's having he's letting those Visions help him but he's actually doing some research himself yeah he's going to the
00:32:51
locations and he's looking for certain things the other thing I like here about his his discussion is is you know we
00:32:58
were talking about the remains and he's saying that no I don't believe it was her vehicle used and I bring up that the
00:33:04
but what about that pollen that we were talking about so there's pollen that was
00:33:07
found on her car right and so a lot of law enforcement believed that because there was pollen found on her car it's
00:33:15
and there was some uh kind of DNA that was found in her trunk that that's in the lawsuit and they're stating the
00:33:23
family stating that this DNA or this remains or whatever that was in the trunk were never tested it was they
00:33:29
found a substance that was uh that was thought to be dried bodily fluids right so it seems like law enforcement is
00:33:38
under the belief that because of the pollen because of this fluid that her car was used to dump her body right
00:33:46
right and and I question him on that and that's where I like that he comes back and he says look I'm I don't claim to
00:33:52
solve anything right it's just I have these Visions these are the things I see and I don't know what they mean and you
00:33:59
and Troy talked about a fisherman possibly finding some kind of human remains can you dive into that a little
00:34:06
more yeah so this is a story that came out and and to be honest with you here there's not a whole lot backing this
00:34:13
story because the the situation is this that there was a man that was out fishing in what I called a pond and troa
00:34:20
correct me and said it was a lake it's it's a rather small body of water well no I think what he was saying was it it
00:34:25
is a pond but most people in that area call it a lake yeah and so this man was out fishing and he believes that while
00:34:33
he was fishing he saw what appeared to be either a rib cage or a human skull maybe both it's a little unclear to me
00:34:41
the thing here is though that he does fail to report it right away right and it's a little unclear as to how long he
00:34:49
waited to report it was it 24 hours or was it a week I cannot say but what happened was he say stating that he is a
00:34:58
person that has once had some gang affiliations he he's had some run-ins with the law and he kind of he got
00:35:06
scared when he saw this he was afraid to report it because he thought they would
00:35:11
think he was involved in whomever you know right right and and on top of that he's probably not 100%
00:35:17
certain as to what he exactly saw and it was through talking with uh people close
00:35:22
to him that they convinced him to finally go to the police and of course because some time has elapsed since then
00:35:29
they were unable to confirm what he thought he had saw yeah so it's kind of weird cuz it seems like maybe it's just
00:35:36
some speculation it doesn't seem like who knows if this is factual the other piece of speculation is this report by
00:35:43
the landlord that there was a stain in Dante's mother's house yeah so the situation is this I I thought clearly
00:35:51
you can hear from the conversation I thought it was an apartment but it but it's a house that was uh in question
00:35:57
here uh the the family moved out Dante's family moves out of this house after some period of time and the landlord is
00:36:06
unaware that there was a missing woman at the time and that furthermore that the missing woman had a connection to
00:36:12
the family living at his property and it's kind of hard to believe because in this small town pleo it seems like this
00:36:19
was big news that Kelsey's picture was all over uh the town that that it it didn't you know it became a mission of
00:36:28
theirs to kind of help figure out what happened right well I don't think that the landlord did anything wrong here I
00:36:34
think it truly may have just been that he was ignorant to the situation because as as we said Dante lived on and off he
00:36:41
shared time between his grandmother's house and his mother's house he may have known Dante's mother but didn't realize
00:36:48
who Dante was that he's seeing on the news um so the situation is this after the family moves out you know the
00:36:55
landlord has to do his Norm cleanup you know you fix a few things you clean you paint sometimes you have to replace the
00:37:01
carpeting as well well this was necessary on this situation because it sounds to me like the place looked like
00:37:07
a bunch of animals live there right and so he's in there replacing Carpeting and
00:37:11
it was underneath the carpeting once they pulled up the carpeting that that a blood stain is found and it I believe it
00:37:17
was found like in the padding so so what happens here is this landlord actually does reach out to law enforcement he
00:37:24
says hey I rented prop property right I'm cleaning it out I found something that was strange I don't know what I'm
00:37:30
seeing here do you want to come and take a look at it the police said no it's probably nothing he kept he you know he
00:37:37
replaces the carpet and he keeps the debris right for a little bit of time and he contacts them again and says
00:37:44
again I found this stuff I'm not going to hang on to it forever would do you would you like me to drive it down to
00:37:49
you so you can take a look at it and they said no you should probably just get rid of it it's probably not a big
00:37:55
deal don't worry about it so he he only gets rid of this this possible evidence because the police tell him to do so
00:38:04
right and okay so if we believe his story right M this is another example of law enforcement that's not doing their
00:38:13
job in this case yeah where it's just like you got this guy I mean all they had to do was just go well who did you
00:38:19
you know who did you rent this house to mhm and then he goes well you know I I rent it to Sarah Sarah
00:38:27
right Sarah Lucas Dante's mother and they wouldn't know that it was Dante's mother but they would just look up Sarah
00:38:34
Lucas and go oh by the way we have this missing person and her son is a possible
00:38:39
suspect in this yeah you know uh he cuz he had her car uh without the girl and he used her debit card and we had
00:38:47
charges that we're trying to bring onto him so you would think at this point they'd go okay this is something we
00:38:53
definitely want to see it's crazy because this is the kind of thing that you think that they would love I mean
00:38:58
you're going to get handed evidence on a silver platter you didn't even have to go to the ne necessity of getting a
00:39:04
warrant to achieve this evidence the guy offered to drive it to you I mean I mean
00:39:10
we already know you're being lazy about this investigation well I think what he should have done right what this L what
00:39:15
this landlord should have done is he said Not only am I going to get in my car and I'm going to drive it to you m
00:39:22
I'm going to bag it and I'm going to process this myself and then I'm going to pay for it yeah because the the here
00:39:30
here I mean it doesn't take it doesn't take um any brilliant mind to put this together the text messages lead Kelsey
00:39:39
to Dante all right that puts her roughly near or in the home of Dante's mother then you find a blood stain that leads
00:39:49
to evidence of Foul Play being involved right and then you have evidence she's she's disappeared right we need to find
00:39:57
her and by finding her car it points to evidence that she's not just missing but
00:40:01
that more Foul Play More Foul Play and you fail to you fail to test that evidence as well then then when we do
00:40:08
have the car the car is wiped clean but we have a handprint and then we also have a possible you know body uh body
00:40:15
fluid in the trunk more evidence of Foul Play and on top of that we have video footage of of Dante returning the car we
00:40:24
have video footage of the mother and grandmother picking him up behind the Walmart after he drops off the car video
00:40:29
footage of an unidentified man moving the car now this this is your case this is your open and shut case and not only
00:40:37
does it get you one conviction but probably three others as well well and I'm I'm going to play a little devil's
00:40:43
advocate here though okay because I mean we're harping pretty hard on law enforcement problem with that though is
00:40:50
it is an open case mhm so what are they telling us or what what are they not telling us that they do know right there
00:40:59
could be even more right they could they could have more evidence additional stuff right and so I mean it's yes I
00:41:06
think if this guy's story is true they drop the ball but at the same time either way if this guy's story is true
00:41:13
that's more evidence why wouldn't you collect it and process it you know is beyond me well and a reminder too that
00:41:21
the reward money has been doubled for the month of February 2017 right um this could spark some people to talk to come
00:41:29
forward who knows we might get lucky on that Avenue the thing here is though we also have a couple of different of new
00:41:36
theories involved in this case we just talked about all of the movement of the vehicle right oh we just kind of went on
00:41:43
a rampage yeah this vehicle has been moved around quite a bit and one theory that has come up very recently and this
00:41:49
is interesting here because this might bring a whole another suspect into this crime and I don't mean somebody that
00:41:58
would clear Dante or Dante's family members of wrongdoing I mean there might be some other person we don't even know
00:42:03
about that was involved in this thing so the the theory goes like this okay now remember we have a situation where the
00:42:10
unidentified man he comes and he picks up the the vehicle Kelsey's vehicle from the Walmart the Chevy Cru the black
00:42:18
Chevy Cruise that was dropped off by Dante the day before well this unidentified man He Walks from what
00:42:25
appears to be the back of the Walmart parking lot right to the front of the Walmart parking lot he gets in the
00:42:31
vehicle and he drives off and and I find that a little suspicious just in the fact that we do know that when Dante
00:42:39
dropped off the car or what we believe is Dante dropped off the car where was his mother in the behind the Walmart
00:42:45
right right and so and here's so if she is The Mastermind right or not maybe the
00:42:51
Mastermind but was somebody pushing or that she's obviously connected to this mhm so now that we have we have Dante we
00:42:58
have Dante's Mom we have Dante's possibly his grandma because she was in the car when they picked him up and now
00:43:04
we have this other man that drops off the car and heads to the back of the Walmart well this man came from the back
00:43:10
of the Walmart to pick up the car so this man moves the car from the Walmart to the hospital parking lot where it's
00:43:16
later found well what they did not figure out in this videotape footage that they've had of this situation until
00:43:23
very recently is that there's another car in that Walmart parking lot that does some strange movements okay and
00:43:29
what these movements are is this car it's a it's a white vehicle and if you go to Kelsey's website uh that is helpf
00:43:36
find kel.com you can find video footage of this there and and I recommend everybody do so the thing here is this
00:43:43
white vehicle it takes almost an identical path that this unidentified man takes from the back of the Walmart
00:43:50
to the front of the Walmart where the where Kelsey's car is positioned right then what happens is this white car
00:43:57
parks and somebody gets out and looks to see if almost looks to see if Kel's car
00:44:04
was moved and and had drove away okay and then gets back in the car and drives off so so the theory is the person
00:44:12
doesn't go in the store doesn't do anything other than pull into a parking spot sit there for a few minutes take a
00:44:18
look around and then leave right so so the theory is that this guy comes from the back of the woman
00:44:26
from somewhere he we know that this is the individual that moves Kelsey's car to the hospital MH and so the the idea
00:44:34
really is that and and this is this is actually pretty genius because sometimes you know take the Brian schaer case for
00:44:41
example we have surveillence footage anytime and this is going to happen more and more and more with cases and
00:44:47
Technology advancing we're going to have more and more cases that involve surveillance cameras Oh yeah and
00:44:52
sometimes it's not it's not the main subject of the video that's the most important you know we can't identify
00:45:00
this guy but we know that this is the guy that moved the car but by watching it over and over then you realize that
00:45:07
this other car probably had something to do with this guy and so this car possibly is what drove the guy to
00:45:14
Walmart in the first place drops him off he walks from the back to the front this
00:45:19
car follows him around once the car is gone this person then drives to the hospital and picks this guy up yeah CU
00:45:27
once you drop off the car at the hospital you got to get back home yeah and this is where I think we might see a
00:45:33
huge break in the case this is a great Theory because I tell you why with the FBI and CBI taking over they will do the
00:45:40
due diligence and try to enhance that tape maybe you can pull a plate number off of that that video tape and if you
00:45:46
get somebody in in a closed room and ask them the tough questions they start to squirm and they might start giving
00:45:53
people up well and think about this hyp pathetically and and we've we've had some friends that have got into a little
00:46:00
bit of trouble in the past by dropping somebody off not knowing why they're dropping them off ain't no friend of
00:46:06
mine a no friend no but what if this guy or girl or whoever was just like hey I have to take my friend's car over to the
00:46:16
hospital MH okay so you drop them off at the Walmart they start driving the car to the hospital you drive to the
00:46:23
hospital you pick them up and you take them back home you don't put two and two together you don't even hear the report
00:46:28
that the missing girl's car was a black Chevy Cruise you don't even think about it I see what you're getting at and so
00:46:34
so then when the FBI gets involved and when it's not it's not if when they find this person and when they you know
00:46:43
interrogate this person this person possibly wasn't involved in the crime right and and and was just helping out a
00:46:52
friend doing a favor and that person is way more like likely to be like oh no I dropped this person off yeah you know
00:46:59
and that's maybe all they know but the person that moved the car knows a lot more yeah and the thing here is uh it's
00:47:07
the big key to solving this case is is putting identification to that unidentified man that's moving the
00:47:13
vehicle oh man we're getting kind of red up in the garage today it's getting a little hot in here it's getting hard to
00:47:18
control myself Captain well at least at least it's not freezing cold out anymore
00:47:24
okay so that's the new Theory but we also have this guy the surveillance camera this is has always been a weird
00:47:31
thing to me and like I said with the missing person cases there's always this weirdness and so uh in that town people
00:47:39
are putting out missing person Flyers yeah well and and some of these are actual signs that you like stick in the
00:47:45
ground as well right and the thing here is we have on videotape you know because
00:47:49
they've put a lot of these signs in the Walmart parking lot and in the parking lot areas of these places that have been
00:47:57
involved in the investigation you know where the car was moved to and things like that so somebody is going around
00:48:05
and taking the effort to remove these signs which is makes no sense at all to anybody right um they have video footage
00:48:12
of this person the person seems to be trying to conceal their identity because the what little video footage I've seen
00:48:20
it appears to be somebody almost in like a jogging outfit but their their hood is
00:48:24
up and they're like running sprinting up to the sign removing it and taking off um in one of the videos I believe that
00:48:33
they have a vehicle that they think is involved in this situation now the rumor mill seems to be that this person may
00:48:42
not have anything to do with Kelsey's disappearance or any type of Foul Play he's just an [ __ ] yes uh yes a major
00:48:52
[ __ ] but they regardless they want to they they're looking for this guy and this is very cool they got video footage
00:48:59
of on the news locally and the police are actively looking for this guy and for good reason let's bring him in and
00:49:07
see what he does know you know before we just out outrightly clear him why would
00:49:12
somebody take part in such strange Behavior yeah it's very strange so either one he's just a blatant [ __ ]
00:49:18
or he has something to do with this and he just you know is pulling these out you know so nobody talks about any
00:49:26
like it kind of one of those like you know if people aren't talking about this then maybe I don't have to worry so much
00:49:32
anymore and so people like you know Dante and his mother and and anybody that possibly is involved that's why
00:49:39
we're talking about it right you know and if you can feel a little heat and if our listeners can uh you know put some
00:49:45
stuff out on the internet and this guy feels a little heat from it if Dante feels a little heat from it fine with me
00:49:51
yeah you know this guy's not doing anything his jump shot wasn't good enough to get him to the NBA right right
00:49:57
and he you know he's probably not doing much with his life and uh I hope this gets back to him and I think that it
00:50:03
will because we we see that there's some evidence here right we see there's plenty of evidence as far as I'm
00:50:09
concerned to get somebody in a room and break him down yeah I think that's the tough thing about this case is it's one
00:50:15
of those cases once you start diving in it's it's almost a mystery on why it's not solved yet you're exactly right and
00:50:23
and here's the other thing too Captain the if you review the lawsuit that they put together now of course this was not
00:50:29
it was thrown out they didn't do anything with it but the family brought up this lawsuit and they were going
00:50:36
after Dante and family members of Dante's and it within those pages it basically pieces together a theory for
00:50:44
everybody the family's theory on how this whole thing went down and we've we've talked about it a little bit but I
00:50:49
wanted to kind of just go through it real quick because it was unclear before but the general theory is that at some
00:50:55
point before the doctor's visit that Dante's family starts contacting Kelsey trying to get her to come to peblo to
00:51:04
visit down to peblo before that visit that seems to be a very important date for them for whatever reason when they
00:51:11
are unable to achieve that then all of a sudden we have this surprise now we have
00:51:15
nice Dante come forward and he's got a surprise for Kelsey right it's like some form of trickery yeah try to lure her
00:51:21
down there with some kind of nice surprise and then it's at this point that we start to see this convolute
00:51:26
convoluted movement of Kelsey's where meet me at the Dante says meet me at the Walmart she goes there she stood up for
00:51:34
a bit of time and then through some communication Dante says meet me near my grandmother's place right she goes there
00:51:41
we don't hear from her after that this is where we know that she disappeared and we think something happened inside
00:51:47
that home inside Dante mother mother's rented home mhm and then from there we have a situation where now we have to
00:51:56
dispose of the remains and this is where we have that weird cell phone activity where they they've collected data and
00:52:02
the information that will show that Dante's cell phone and Kelsey's cell phone were located in close proximity to
00:52:09
one another in a remote location mhm and there's no reason for that phone call it's exactly what I think the
00:52:16
family believes that somebody was looking for that phone in the dark and a big question to us on social media in
00:52:22
the last day or so was did they search that area where those those phone calls were made uh I don't know that answer I
00:52:32
don't believe so I can't say for certain um what I can say is that Troy told us that he went there to look on in a
00:52:40
certain location that Kelsey's mother wanted to check out that was off of some kind of County Road out there maybe
00:52:46
Kelsey's mother is aware of where this these phones were thought to have been located at the time and that might have
00:52:52
been the area they were checking I can't say for certain yeah and you brought up
00:52:55
something interesting because there has been some you know law enforcement saying hey we don't want you guys doing
00:53:03
your own searches right right and which I think is a hindrance I mean I think as
00:53:07
far if I was law enforcement it would be really hard to tell a mother or a family
00:53:13
looking for a missing person to stop looking you know don't look we we got this don't look on your own yeah yeah if
00:53:21
anything you should be offering hey let's set up a time let's set up but you know we can put some of our people
00:53:26
together with some of your people and check out that area and like you were saying I think this lawsuit is really
00:53:31
telling of who the family thinks is involved in The Disappearance of their daughter yeah it names Dante and Dante's
00:53:39
mother Dante's grandmother and certain family members of his and as we've seen from the video footage we know that more
00:53:45
than one person is involved in this somehow it the the problem here is figuring out who is the nucleus of this
00:53:52
whole thing is it Dante is it the mother you know it's it's it's hard to say and
00:53:57
hopefully if anybody out there knows anything hopefully they will come forward and if you have any information
00:54:04
you want to contact people at helpf find kel.com yeah and one thing that I found
00:54:10
on the website that I thought was um something that we should re repeat here um it's it's something that's written as
00:54:17
if it's in Kelsey's own own words and it goes like this it says I Am Kelsey shelling you know the person who caused
00:54:24
me to disappear M you may know his family you may know his friends you may know where he hangs out you may know
00:54:32
whom he confides in you may know where he would go if he were in trouble you may know where he would take me your
00:54:41
conscience may be bothering you you may know where I am it's time to talk it's time to help my family it's time for me
00:54:49
to go home my family does not care who you are you may be afraid that that's not an excuse you can call
00:54:58
anonymously call now please call 1855 for Kelsey or visit helpf find.com do the right thing it always baffles me
00:55:09
in some of these cases where there is somebody out there with information and they just don't come forward because
00:55:16
they don't want to be labeled as a snitch or whatever MH well before we wrap this up here Captain I want to
00:55:22
throw this out there all right this is a little remind to everybody out there this case will be solved and it may be
00:55:28
solved soon and why CBI has taken this case over there's the new Theory which is a good one too and it potentially
00:55:36
brings a whole other person or maybe persons into the fold and so far there are a lot of low down people in this
00:55:43
fold and that's one thing I want to address right now this case will be solved arrest and convictions are going
00:55:51
to happen and I'm guessing they will happen soon so I want to address address Dante and some of his family because I
00:55:57
wouldn't be surprised if one of them might listen to this episode so here you go Lucas family and persons that helped
00:56:04
Dante listen carefully turn yourself in do it turn yourself in before one of the
00:56:11
other low Downs you conspired with turns you in you can help yourself you can help her family at the same time do it
00:56:19
because you know better than anyone that's out there you do not want to be second to the confession party and like
00:56:25
always our thoughts and prayers go out to Kelsey's family and friends and anybody that was affected by this case
00:56:32
and and if you have any information please reach out to them at helpf find kel.com you can also call CBI and their
00:56:41
number is 719 647-5990 and if you want to remain anonymous they have the peblo Crim
00:56:49
Stoppers that you can call at 71 9542 stop all right let's get back to some more beer drinking right uh and
00:56:58
this week's recommendation on the reading is do you mind if I read a email real quick here Captain we we had a
00:57:05
funny situation okay last night we did our show and I get home and I check the email and we received one from a a guy
00:57:12
named Aaron and he's contacting us from Illinois stating that his father was a detective and his mother was a nurse so
00:57:21
needless to say the dinner conversations were always interesting um but he recommended a case to us where a um his
00:57:29
father had worked on this case where a man named Gary gger and I hope I said that name right was sentenced to death
00:57:35
for the murder of his elderly parents um and his father was involved in this case
00:57:41
and has always stuck with him now Gary ended up being uh o the guilty conviction overturned because what
00:57:49
happened was we had a situation where some Outlaw Bikers were they figured out that they had actually committed the
00:57:55
murders right and so I was able to reply to him stating that the funny thing here
00:58:00
is that Aaron the book that we just recommended yesterday talks about that exact case right and that book is called
00:58:07
you got to be dirty that's right you got to be dirty by Michael Grogan and it's uh about the Outlaws motorcycle club in
00:58:14
and around Wisconsin you can pick that up by going to our website True Crime garage.com click on the recommended page
00:58:20
and check out the books and movies that we've recommended there yeah it's a great way to help out the show you just
00:58:26
go to our website that's truec garage.com you click on the Amazon Banner you can either buy a book or you
00:58:31
can buy anything really I mean you know with all this sadness that we talk about
00:58:36
I like to comfort Myself by buying guitars like I have a serious problem with it but I like to do so by going
00:58:42
through our banner and they give us a little Kickback and it's no extra cost to you and until then everybody be good
00:58:50
be kind and don't let it [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to
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