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[Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who
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shoots whiskey as a pre-workout drink he is the captain sun's out guns out Bros it's good to be seen and it's good to
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see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] tonight we are drinking pallet jack by
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the hard-working people at Barley Brown's in beautiful Baker City Oregon garage grade four out of five bottle
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and Harker Heights Texas next up we have Gemma from Reading she says loads of love for True Crime garage from the
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United Kingdom also in the UK we have Sophie from Edinburgh and then we have Kelly from Traverse Michigan she's a
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Michigan State fan uh so you know what that means that she's one of the pretty girls and last but not least least we
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have Kristen in La who says captain please marry my roommate Rachel oh well well it's such an honor and a privilege
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that you don't want to marry me you're just gonna pass me off to your your bum roommate well thanks to everybody for
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helping us fill up the fridge the fridge in the garage is looking pretty pretty good this week if you want to buy us
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use for beer we do use on liquor all right Captain that's enough of the garage business everybody gather around
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grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime foreign [Music] Horman is seven years old he attends the
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Skyline Elementary School in Oregon he is in the second grade now on Friday June 4th 2010 the Skyline Elementary
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opens early at 8 A.M so students and parents can tour the science fair Terry hormann kyron's stepmother arrives with
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Chiron at school shortly after 8 A.M we know this to be true because there are several people that spot the two of them
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together during the science fair at 8 45 a.m Terry Horman is getting ready to leave the school she says she watched
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Kyron walking towards his classroom and then she leaves the school at 10 A.M classes begin and at some point kyron's
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homeroom teacher this is Christina Porter reports and marks him as absent now wouldn't be until about 3 30 p.m
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when kyron's father and stepmother go to meet the school bus the bus driver informed them that Kyron had not boarded
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the the bus after school the bus driver was then asked to call the school and asked where Chiron was the bus driver
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was informed by the school secretary that Chiron had not been in school since early that day and had been marked
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absent the driver she reports to the secretary that she did not have Chiron and neither did the parents therefore he
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was missing just before 4 pm the school secretary notified 9-1-1 of the boy being missing the 911 call center then
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reported this information to the police and shortly afterwards the search for Kyron Horman began so that's a quick
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overview of what happened that day and if you want more information on that we have the Kyron Horman disappearance
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episode and the search episode and sadly enough he went missing back in 2010 and to this
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day Kyron has not been located and since then we have had a lot of suspicions cast on the parents of him
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and his inner circle people looking at them as suspicious and them casting suspicion upon one another yeah early in
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this case we had a united front we had four parents that were trying to find this boy as the case would develop we
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start seeing conflict between the parents yeah and as we saw during the search for Chiron you know that Unity
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quickly fell apart now there's been plenty of opportunity and plenty of time that has gone by since he went missing
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for these parents to talk about their thoughts of what happened to Chiron who could have been involved in this and a
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chance to defend themselves we thought it was important for you to hear their thoughts and their feelings coming
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straight from them let's listen to kyron's Mother Desiree as she describes the day that he went missing I got a
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phone call from the school and she said is this Desiree Young And I said said yes it is and she said you're listed as
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emergency notification for Kyron Horman and I said yeah he's my son what could I do and she said I have to
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notify you he's missing and for a split second I thought it was a joke and I said what she said he's missing
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I said I don't understand how could I be missing I said okay where is Terry and Kane well
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Terry's here all right thank you and I hung up with her and immediately called Terry
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and I am cussed a little bit said what the hell is going on and she said that they went to the
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science fair and everything was fine and she waved goodbye to him and he went into his class or so she thought
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there was something in my gut that just didn't feel good I had told her I'm coming up there and she said you are
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and she seemed surprised at that which I thought was strange I said of course I am I'll be there in you know four or
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four and a half hours kyron's mother tearfully describing a phone call that she will never ever forget and then
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shortly afterwards calling Terry kyron's stepmother who who knew beforehand you know she's known for a little bit of
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time now maybe it's minutes maybe it's an hour an hour or so by this point the chiron's missing and Desiree says that
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Terry seems surprised that she would be hopping in the car and going to their house immediately to figure out what's
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going on right and it's a pretty long drive yeah it's going to take them what four or five hours to get there but I
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mean this is your son if your son's missing of course you're jumping in the car and you're going to assist in the
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search and you hope that at some point on that drive your cell phone rings and they've located your son and it's just a
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big misunderstanding well she's claiming that it's suspicious that the Stepmom would say well why are you coming I I
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again I think with a lot of these little tiny pieces of evidence that people are
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going to speculate on it goes both ways right there's a part of you that it's like of course the mom would drive four
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to five hours but maybe the step mom's just thinking hey he's going to turn up she might have been thinking there is no
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need to worry yourself there is no need to jump in the car and drive four hours we got this we'll find him now we also
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have Tony Young who's married to kyron's mother now he's going to have an interesting perspective on things
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because he works in law enforcement I was watching the investigation right from the start I
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explained to each each person that now our lives are not private anymore that the investigators are going to want to
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know uh very detailed information about our lives she instantly started to express some displeasure at that and and
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not want it feeling like she was persecuted and I thought that was kind of an unusual reaction that early all
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right a couple things to unpack here first of all yes your child is missing so you got to be an open book right if
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you're going to help law enforcement it's also better I mean we've talked about this look if you're if your spouse
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was murdered chances are you're going to be investigated right and you just have
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to be okay with that uh I understand people still want in their privacy I understand that people maybe don't want
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to air some of their dirty laundry but you know this is going to happen so I I think it was smart that he set everybody
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down and said this is what's coming here's the storm that's coming and we if we band together it's going to be better
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yeah and you can speed up the process too if if you can get everybody on board and everybody is willing to talk with
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the police and the investigators you can speed up the process to where that circle is no longer around the immediate
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family and the circle gets larger and the potential for finding Chiron increases the problem here is you hear
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Tony kind of honing in on Terry's reaction to him saying hey now we got to be an open book almost you get the sense
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that in not so many words he kind of seems to be saying you know what Terry seems to to think that they should
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just be out there looking for Chiron they shouldn't be looking at me or looking at my husband or you or him they
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you know we should not be the focus or the microscope here they should just be worried and busy out looking for Chiron
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and obviously according to Tony she's very uncomfortable with that idea yeah and that maybe seems a little fishy we
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covered another case the Missy beavers case and her husband was very forthcoming Brandon beavers and he was
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very Cooperative with the police and and his thoughts was like of course I'm going to be a suspect and of course you
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have to roll me out but the the more I talk to you and the faster you can rule me out the sooner that we can actually
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get to the bottom of this now Terry she's the stepmother and her husband Kane kyron's father will have an
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opportunity to defend his wife she like the rest of us is extremely committed to fighting Chiron and and
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she's working extremely hard with investigators as are the rest of us to help bring him home but his story is
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going to quickly change yeah very quickly because just 22 days after Chiron disappears he's informed Kane is
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informed by the detectives involved in the case that Terry may have tried to hire someone to have him killed yeah and
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this is something that we could speculate a lot later into let's just try to get where they're at but again
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because of this information coming to Cain coming to chiron's father he's going to kind of change the way he's
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looking at the Stepmom oh yeah it's a 180 man he wants getting this information he takes the daughter that
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he had with Terry and he leaves the house and here's some of his thoughts on this new information I didn't believe it
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at first it was something that I couldn't even wrap my head around at the time there's been no indication in your
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marriage that things were that bad or that she was upset with you no do you think she is capable of hurting a child
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if you asked me before this situation my answer is no based on what I know now I
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don't know I think anything is possible based on the way things have gone over the past
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few weeks you fear for your safety now Cain for your daughter if you're for my daughter
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and so your message to her now is is what Kane fully cooperate with law enforcement tell the truth there's some
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telling things in there Captain the first thing that kind of jumps off to me is that you know when asked did you ever
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see anything like this coming you know talking about the the possible murder For Hire it it you know we have heard on
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many shows many times where people have had attempts against their life and they've been asked the same question and
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you usually get one of two answers you get no I had no clue as what what Cain said or you have the other that was yes
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well but no you no you not yes you get this person yes had shown some violence towards me in the past have threatened
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me or threatened to do this or that against me right but I never thought they would do it so what what I'm saying
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that this is telling of is Kane doesn't seem to he doesn't seem we don't get the
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idea that there's any threats that at any point Terry threatened him or was violent towards him uh this seems to
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really come out of left field for him right or or that there was any signs at all that she was a neglectful stepmother
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the other thing here too when asked do you fear for your life or do or your daughter's life you know he says I fear
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for my daughter well what does that come from that comes from there was a situation after Cain left the home and
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with his daughter once the two had been you know not legally separated but they had split up by this point there had
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been it on at least one occasion where Terry had gone to Kane's gym remember we said that the gym that they had they had
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the little kitty section you know where you could you could drop your kid off they would be entertained and watched
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during your workout session there was at least one occasion if not more where Terry went to that gym asking if Cain
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was there and if the daughter was there now she never said this to anybody but we have
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the employees and and people that attended the gym that said that they believed that she would have taken the
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daughter had had the daughter been there when she arrived on those occasions right but that's evidence of nothing
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that's just their thoughts but but it's it's reason to understand his concern for his safety of his
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daughter when you have you have her just randomly showing up at the gym and asking employees about the whereabouts
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of her daughter here's a clip of that Terry was inquiring if King was here working out
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and then she asked if her daughter was here in our kids club and the comments she made well if she
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had been here I would have taken her you think she came here to the club with the
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intention of finding Kiara her daughter and taking her that's certainly what it looked like
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and how about kyron's Mother's reaction to what the Stepmother's been up to since she has split with her husband
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hearing that what do you think she's got some guts I'll give her that and now's not a good
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time to be doing stuff like that but I guess I I don't expect anything less right and that's some suspicious actions
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there by the Stepmom but again if you're not involved and you know you're not involved in The Disappearance of your
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stepson then you would want to see your child your other child you'd want to be a part of her life yeah and then we have
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the question about the polygraph test we have the situation where Terry takes one
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fails one and she's asked to take another test and potentially another test at that but at some point she
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starts refusing to be a part of these polygraph tests yeah and kind of backing away from the whole investigation uh as
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a whole and here's uh Tony the stepfather's thoughts on that when I heard that that made the decision in my mind at the
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fork in the road we knew which road to go down we implore Terry Horman to fully cooperate
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with the indicators to bring Chiron home so you can hear the parents pleading with the Stepmom after
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the failed polygraphs hey just be honest and work with the cops well and sometimes throughout this process we
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have kyron's mother and stepfather who seem to be a little bit vague about what they believe may have happened to Chiron
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and who could have been involved but when they're sat down and they are asked the direct question regarding Terry the
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stepmother well it's obvious how they feel I absolutely believe that Terry Harmon is
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responsible for kyron's disappearance you too help did someone help her we don't have
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any evidence that indicates that but we personally think that's the case do you think Terry Horman planned
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to do something oh yeah without a doubt which here they bring up a great point because the tough
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thing about the whole stepmother theory is her timeline and did she have enough time she also was solved by a lot of
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eyewitnesses with her daughter out and about no signs of Karen so if she was involved was there somebody
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else involved yeah and you're exactly right Captain there are breaks in her timeline there are points in her
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timeline of what went down what she was doing that day where she is unaccounted for but like we've talked about in so
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many cases was there enough time to do something well if you have somebody else involved right if you have a drop-off
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point or somebody that can take this kid from you or for you then your timeline isn't so doesn't have to be so precise
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it you know we don't need a whole day to take Chiron and get rid of him right and
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her going to these stores and and bringing her baby in the stores we have a couple of accounts with with
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the eyewitnesses saying hey yeah I saw her but it was a little odd how much she talked to me how much detail she got
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almost like maybe she's establishing an alibi right right is is she in fact just
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running necessary errands or does she want people to know where she is that day right
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okay so we have this atom bomb that goes off that Terry the stepmother potentially tried to hire somebody to
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kill chiron's father Kane yeah but then the other shoe falls another bomb boom and what is this it's a sex bomb
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a big fat stinky sweaty sex bomb wow but now here's the thing Captain so we have
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Terry the Stepmom her phone is being monitored by the police by this point in the investigation and so she's very
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careful about what she says when she's on her phone however she's not clever enough to figure out
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that they're not just monitoring the phone calls they can see all of the activity going on and on her phone and
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when we say all we mean all all the whole thing well the thing here is we have to introduce a guy named uh Michael
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cook okay so who is he he was a an old friend of Keynes it sounds like they were friends you know maybe from high
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school or college yeah and then you know didn't have much interaction for many years but at some point they are living
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close in proximity to one another and they rekindle their friendship well after Chiron goes missing we have
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Michael cook who's going to help try to help the family console them you know be
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a friend uh he actually was involved in helping to organize one of the first vigils that was held for Chiron while
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they were still out searching for him well after after we have Kane and Terry split up after Kane finds out hey you're
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loving caring wife may have tried to have somebody kill you right and he says guess what I'm taking my daughter and
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I'm out well we have Terry who's still living at the hormon home and at some point she thinks you know what I'm going
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to start texting this friend of the family Michael cook and he's going to start texting her back and the
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conversation starts as casual things questions about the investigation questions about is there any you know
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leads anything good coming in helping to find Chiron well it very quickly turns to
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um some very very inappropriate uh discussions between the two of them here's a clip of Michael talking about
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the searches Kane and Terry live right up the street from me cook is an old high school friend of Keynes they
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recently reconnected in the first days of the hunt for Chiron cook joined the search and then of course we've all seen
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these and seemed to go out of his way to defend Terry when suspicions about her first emerged I I would hope that if if
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people had energy they would put it toward helping to find this missing boy as opposed to
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investing it and speculating about whether the family did or didn't have something to do with it and a lot of
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people weren't just put in speculation on the family a lot of people were put in speculation on Terry yeah so it's
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kind of weird that all now that she's uh showing me her tatas or her Turtle tatas
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now I will be defending her yeah and well and the thing is you know it just doesn't seem like
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you know we look at these things from the outside and we have to wonder how we would behave and how uh we would handle
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dealing with something like this in our lives well when it's not handled in a way that we agree with of course we all
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automatically think well this person either just doesn't care just has no soul no heart or they're they're
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involved in this thing and somehow well in a cheater doesn't make you a murderer
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but you know being a cheater does make you a liar and I also think it makes you question somebody's character and
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they're going to ask chiron's Mom about these new allegations you roll your eyes
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yeah I'm sorry I guess to say it tactfully it goes to someone's character if you're doing something like that I
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mean it's disgusting and now chiron's mother is going to be asked if her and her husband kyron's stepfather if they
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feel guilty because of what was the result of what happened to Chiron because he disappeared and now we learn
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that we have all the suspicious Behavior going on around the stepmother Kyron was
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in her care to know that I was four and a half hours away when he needed me to protect him that's
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what I feel guilty for the fact that I had to work that day instead of going to the science fair
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like I wanted to that I feel guilty for too he wanted to come live with us he expressed that on several occasions
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and just several times he would just break down and just sob because he wanted to stay
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[Music] [Music] all right cheers mates we're back all right so so far Captain we have heard
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allegation after allegation just kind of stacking up against Terry Horman the stepmother who was the last person as
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far as we know to see Kyron Harmon the morning that he disappeared now she is going to get a chance to react to some
00:25:00
of these allegations and let's hear her talk about that strange Facebook post of
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I'm going to hit the gym this just days into the search for Chiron well that would be because the the law enforcement
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told us to go to do we told us to do things that we normally do so they want you to go grocery shopping
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they want you to go to the gym they actually specifically told both Kane and I and he was with me that day when we
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went but this statement makes a lot of sense to me I mean law enforcement will tell you hey you gotta live some kind of
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of a life if you just focus only on searching uh you're going to drive yourself crazy right I don't think I'd
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be able to uh do anything but search um but so I so I get that point the the other weird thing that she throws in
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there is oh yeah well I went to the gym that day and Cain was with me again I don't think it's weird I mean some
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people as a stress reliever you know do yoga they go to the gym they gotta go running I don't think that is super odd
00:26:05
um but you post it on Facebook right you know stop being such a [ __ ] well and on more
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than one occasion she's going to claim that she was not allowed to be involved in the search for Chiron which again
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makes sense to me um the investigators in the search and rescue team should be the the experts
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are the ones that should be doing that um but furthermore maybe she doesn't need to be involved in this search for
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Chiron because she herself as well as other family members are still under investigation very early on yeah that's
00:26:39
a very good point and you know law enforcement might have said hey go to the gym they probably didn't tell her
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because they didn't think she was so stupid hey don't post it on Facebook the other weird behavior is the sexting and
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so this is Terry's response to being caught sexting her husband's friend this was in retaliation for something that he
00:26:59
was doing that I found out about while this is happening and this particular person was actually his friend and sent
00:27:07
to the house so this was a setup I'm saying this person came to the house he was Kane's friend
00:27:14
I did this deliberately because I was angry and getting back at him oh wow two wrongs always make it right Captain yeah
00:27:23
I don't know if that's how it works weird stuff here though because first of all hey she's like uh constantly
00:27:31
changing her story well you know see see first of all it was a setup right this guy came to the house and they set me up
00:27:41
uh she also says well but Cain was cheating too so so that's why and then she says well because he was cheating I
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I did it for Revenge you know what I mean it makes zero sense and you're constantly changing your story just
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admit that you're a horrible person I had no interest in having this person in my life this was something to screw with
00:28:06
Cain because I was angry with him because he was doing the exact same thing with somebody else yeah but also
00:28:13
by this time we're not even in together anymore all right so first it's a setup then it's revenge and then at the end of
00:28:21
that little statement it was well but we weren't even together right well you're
00:28:25
legally married well and the other thing here is you know throw all that out the
00:28:30
window because you know Terry does such a good job of just cleaning this up very
00:28:36
quickly very nice and neat oh it's you know I did this because of this it didn't really matter we're not together
00:28:43
but the the thing here is the and then you have you know who else does a good job of cleaning this up Michael cook
00:28:51
because later Michael cook would tell the media you know what yeah I was sexting with her
00:28:57
um I went over to her home on one occasion to speak with her and I never had sex with her okay well
00:29:03
let me break this down for you all right first of all Michael cook I read those text messages and we all know anybody
00:29:12
that's followed this case for some time okay everybody that's followed this case
00:29:16
knows that Terry has been interviewed on more than one occasion regarding these these text messages to and from Michael
00:29:24
cook all right in those interviews they dumb it down they have to dumb it down because the material in those text
00:29:33
messages are so graphic that they cannot say those things on the radio or on TV or in the newspaper right luckily for us
00:29:42
we're just in a garage and we can say whatever we want as as far as it pertains to these cases
00:29:48
the thing here is Michael cook I'm sorry man I'm never going to believe you that
00:29:54
you didn't have sex with Terry Horman for several reasons one um these these things got so explicit
00:30:02
that there's no way you went over there just to talk with the person because Guess what at some point in these text
00:30:08
messages you had two options bro you could have said you could have said this either I'm going to go over there and
00:30:15
give her what she's begging for or I'm gonna remove myself from this horrible situation that somehow I I've ended up
00:30:23
in and been a part of for uh you know they were texting for days it wasn't like yeah but it is possible that he
00:30:29
just wanted some you know booby picks you know it's possible yeah but you don't have to go to her home to receive
00:30:37
those she had already sent those to you before you went to her home and the other thing but buddy here's the thing
00:30:43
according to the text messages and according to Terry's messages that she sent to you not only did you go to her
00:30:51
home but she went to your home on one occasion yeah so let's let's not pretend like this thing only happened once and
00:30:59
we just sat around talking and and hoping for the best no I think it went down exactly how everybody's thinking
00:31:06
that it went down and why look the other thing too is Michael had this weird fetish with turtles
00:31:14
so not true but the thing here is even after she's sending pictures of herself he's asking for more pictures and as the
00:31:22
captain pointed out maybe he's just into pictures however more than one occasion during these text
00:31:29
message exchanges they both admit to having been masturbating during the sexting situation
00:31:38
yeah yeah and then at some point she says hey I'm glad that we I she says look did she give her don't tell anyone
00:31:46
don't tell anybody that I came over to your house last night because I told my attorney and I told my friend Dede that
00:31:53
I just had to go out for a drive because I was stressed and I'd been locked up in
00:31:57
the house all day right which is another piece of evidence that she will lie to anybody she'll lie to her her own lawyer
00:32:04
yeah it's a definitely uh a detail of your character and the other issue too the other problem with this case is that
00:32:14
you have two adults uh we have Terry for certain and we have Michael cook by this point that that is yes just
00:32:22
speculation on my behalf but whether or not they had sex together we have we have two adults in in the Inner
00:32:31
Circle of a situation of a missing child and they're behaving like teenagers they're behaving like teenagers they're
00:32:38
not assisting they're not doing anything productive as far as I'm concerned in helping the family or helping Chiron
00:32:45
they're running around in in playing these games with each other and hiding it from everybody else well and the
00:32:52
weird thing here too is I mean like we've said before kyron's father left kyron's mother while she was
00:32:58
pregnant because he is having an affair with the turtle Terry and the problem here is
00:33:06
that now she's saying that well Kane's doing the same thing and this might have been going on before Chiron went missing
00:33:14
but then it starts making you want uh wonder about motive you know if the kids out of the picture
00:33:22
what happens to the relationship right I think we throw a lot of shade on her but if Kane is doing the same thing
00:33:30
then he's equally yeah with a bag of flaming you know what but that's a road that I don't even care
00:33:37
to go down right but why do we do it with her and not him because of this because of this exact fact we have in
00:33:44
her own words her saying I lied to my best friend and to my attorney two people that are supposed to have her
00:33:50
best interest involved in what's going on in her world and she's admittingly lying to them so
00:33:58
how can I put any weight on her being the only one saying that Cain well he was doing the same thing so I did it too
00:34:07
right but we have evidence that he's done this before so there there's some weight there I get I feel I feel you
00:34:14
there you bring up a good point the problem I have is I have a big problem believing anything that Terry says and
00:34:20
while we're you know while we're in the business of throwing shade at people I think that we need to throw some shade
00:34:26
on Michael cook um because here's the thing this is his own words his own words when asked why
00:34:33
that that the investigation is focusing in on Terry or why the public seems to be swarming around her like vultures
00:34:42
thinking that she's involved in kyron's disappearance somehow his own words are I wish that anybody
00:34:48
that has energy would focus in and put their efforts towards trying to find Chiron uh guess what Michael how much
00:34:57
energy did you waste on those visits with Terry how much energy did you waste texting and sexting back and forth with
00:35:04
her you should have focused your efforts on looking for Chiron as well I think it's very obvious where I stand as far
00:35:11
as how I you know my belief on whether Terry is a somewhat honest person or or you know not honest at all right I can't
00:35:20
it's hard for me to believe anything she says and this is a good point this is a
00:35:25
good time for her to address the situation regarding the polygraph test so the the first one was approximately
00:35:32
an hour long and reading the results took about three hours to do it um I'm very hard of hearing virtually
00:35:38
deaf in my left ear so I have to look at people when I talk to them to understand
00:35:42
what they're saying he was behind me when he was doing the first polygraph um so it took me a little bit of time to
00:35:49
process what he was saying to respond I was gone for the three hours while he put it together came back and he just I
00:35:58
don't even know what was up on the screen buddy so you failed and I was like how can I possibly fail they told
00:36:02
the truth and then they came in um two of the Bobby O'Donnell lead investigator another guy named will he's
00:36:08
an FBI guy he was part of the group and uh we're talking about it and after discussion about I I was upset
00:36:18
went back and I had at that time uh called Kane and I told him I'm just done cooperating I've had it I cannot believe
00:36:25
that they're focused on me or they're not focusing where they need to be and they took me home I was at home the
00:36:32
lead investigator of FBI his name is Lee gossum he called me over to the school or the fire station and asked that we
00:36:41
have a discussion and um about saying that they needed my help to continue on because I know Karen
00:36:48
as well as I do excuse me I agreed that I would is just I just said I'm just angry because of
00:36:54
all this is going on he said well had you had any other reaction I would have thought that you
00:37:00
were guilty because I don't feel that way about you but she wants to make sure that she
00:37:08
includes in there that one of the investigators says to her that he doesn't feel that she's guilty
00:37:14
of anything yeah and we have no way of knowing if he said that or not right uh the other thing that they're going to
00:37:20
bring up is the fact that she has hearing problems so that could affect the polygraph which could explain why
00:37:29
she failed the test it's it's heavy and enough I have to see the context of the person what they're saying their facial
00:37:36
expression it helps a lot yeah if I'm sitting this way and I'm doing it he's right here at a table
00:37:41
so I can hear out of this ear it's just it makes it much more difficult told him I couldn't hear then he made it
00:37:48
so that I was scooted over enough that I could hear more out of my right ear yeah
00:37:52
and this investigation is going to take another twist like I said before they were United as four you know the the
00:38:00
Stepmom the Father the stepdad and the mother they were United but quickly it turns into well we think Terry is
00:38:09
possibly lying about some stuff and not cooperating as much as she should then what's going to happen is that this the
00:38:17
allegations come out that she hired the landscaper or the gardener to kill her husband and once this comes out he is
00:38:25
going to then have to file for a divorce when Kane files for that divorce uh he is going to submit all this stuff
00:38:33
allegations against her with drinking and God knows what else but I think some of that it's so you know again uh this
00:38:44
guy cheated on his pregnant wife I don't know how much we can believe but even if
00:38:49
he was making up stories I think he was doing so to protect his daughter and I can commend him for that well one big
00:38:56
part of the battle of this whole divorce is going to be custody of the child of of the daughter that Cain and Terry had
00:39:05
together right you know Kane is not just saying hey I'm separating from my wife he's saying no I'm separating from my
00:39:12
wife from Terry and I'm taking our daughter and she's separating from her as well right and so for this to happen
00:39:18
he's not only going to have to prove reasons why they should be divorced and and why they shouldn't be together but
00:39:25
he's going to have to prove reasons why she is not fit to be uh to have their daughter in her care again I command him
00:39:34
because if you think that she had anything to do with The Disappearance of your son you do not want to take that
00:39:39
chance now what what comes out in the public is that the mother of Chiron is going to hear all this information and
00:39:46
go wait what the heck yeah why didn't we know about this earlier right when our kid went missing you should have been
00:39:51
talking about this and that's going to sever their relationship as well and here is Karen's mom talking about that
00:39:58
good morning this is the first time that you are speaking out about Karen without
00:40:03
um your ex-husband Kane up until now you two have maintained a united front so what has changed
00:40:11
well we're we're still a united front in the goal that we want Chiron home and and we want answers that hasn't changed
00:40:23
I I personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me and Kane's choices
00:40:33
and his behavior and um I just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making well some of
00:40:42
that has to do with these court documents that you've seen where he talks about his wife Terry being visibly
00:40:49
uh impaired from alcohol several times a week putting her kids at risk he calls her emotionally disturbed yet he never
00:40:58
shared any of his concerns with you is that correct that's correct we learned of all of this
00:41:04
information after the fact and from the media he had several opportunities to let Tony and I know what was going on in
00:41:12
the house and he did not he had several opportunities to make the right choice and either let me know or remove Kyron
00:41:21
from the house I would have removed Kyron clean the house had I have known what was going on did you see any signs
00:41:28
ever um Desiree that that Terry was dealing with alcohol abuse or that she was as as Cain put it emotionally
00:41:35
disturbed yeah I did not see any evidence of of alcohol abuse um in fact I didn't know about the DUI
00:41:45
until after Chiron went missing um but as far as a personality disorder I did uh for years
00:41:55
I was aware that she had some issues with pathological lying things of that nature but just mostly from my
00:42:04
interactions with her I don't I didn't see you know as much as Kane did if you had any concerns why didn't you at any
00:42:13
time or did you try to get your son car run out of that home oh yes I did starting uh a year prior to
00:42:22
his him going missing I tried to get custody of him and what would happen uh Kane told me it was not an option on
00:42:33
several occasions and it was a point of contention with us he was exhibiting some problems in school and he was
00:42:42
expressing a lot of um sadness and upset at the situation and Chiron on many occasions told me he
00:42:50
wanted to come live with me and on a couple of different occasions Terry had called me specifically so that I could
00:42:58
talk to Chiron because he was so upset and Terry personally wanted me to take Chiron and
00:43:04
then on Friday the police showed you some emails that Terry had sent to friends of hers describing her marriage
00:43:11
to Kane and her feelings about your son I know you can't reveal the the specifics because of the investigation
00:43:17
but generally what did they say it's very clear from Terry's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Chiron
00:43:30
and that a lot she blamed a lot of the marital problems between Kane and herself on Chiron that
00:43:42
it was a huge point of contention in their marriage and she had expressed in great detail
00:43:51
her hatred for Chiron I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting Chiron
00:44:01
that it's clear that she could have heard him in the worst possible way do you still hold out hope that your son
00:44:08
is alive I will until the day I die there's been a lot of talk about these emails on the internet a lot of people
00:44:19
chiming in with their thoughts and opinions about this I've heard and read some people unfortunately that say you
00:44:26
know as far as these emails go we've not been able to see them they're they're you know they're not been
00:44:33
released to the public so all we can go off of is Desiree kyron's mom saying that the stepmother hated Chiron this is
00:44:42
what I see in the emails and there's also been speculation that there were hundreds and hundreds of emails that
00:44:49
were of this nature of her speaking Illy of her marriage and of her stepson and even saying that her stepson was adding
00:44:59
to the turmoil in their marriage in her marriage my comments to those people that have
00:45:05
posted that is two things you're exactly right we have not seen we have not seen
00:45:11
these they've not been made public and yes all we have is what she is stating that she was shown because she was shown
00:45:18
these by the investigators because they wanted to get her opinion you know what I believe I believe that some of those
00:45:26
emails were her saying bad things about her stepson were things Terry saying bad
00:45:33
things about Chiron bad things about her marriage now if if Desiree had to pour over hundreds of emails and I and I'm
00:45:41
guessing with the activity that I've seen uh made public regarding Terry's computer uh activity and how active she
00:45:50
was on her phone yeah I'm guessing that there were probably hundreds of emails my guess here would be that probably a
00:45:58
very few of them actually pertain to her saying that she hated Chiron and that she had a bad marriage because of him I
00:46:06
do not doubt Desiree I do not doubt that she is coming forward with saying information that is true that is factual
00:46:14
the problem is we have people taking in this information watching these interviews and then later saying well
00:46:21
there were hundreds and hundreds of emails of her saying she hated Chiron and all we have is the Stepmom to go now
00:46:27
you're jumping to conclusions there right you're jumping to conclusions there we've not seen evidence so far in
00:46:35
this case of a situation where Desiree is lying about anything I I take her I take her for her word yeah and as far as
00:46:44
we know I mean like the kid goes missing we're going to start diving into these individuals past that's how we know
00:46:51
about how uh Cain and Terry got together is during a pregnancy that's horrible the other thing about it
00:46:59
too is that uh you know like we said we have evidence that Terry has lied about stuff
00:47:05
but also just the fact that she's willing to cheat I think that's evidence that she's a selfish individual and if
00:47:12
you're a selfish individual then maybe you don't want to be taken care of um a son that's not biologically yours
00:47:19
right so and again uh as they dove into these people's lives uh there's really nothing that we can discuss as far as
00:47:26
Desiree obviously by this point we have a situation where the relationship is has been severed between the biological
00:47:34
mother and biological father of Chiron and they're no longer like the captain keeps referring to as a unit unified
00:47:42
front you know now we have we have two against one and two against another one and for the first time after what three
00:47:51
years we have we have Kane the biological father and Desiree the biological mother
00:47:57
who have the opportunity to sit down and discuss some of their differences I don't blame Kane for kyron's
00:48:05
disappearance I want to make that very clear however the things that I have a hard time with
00:48:12
is the fact that I feel like things were happening in the year prior to Chiron going missing that I was bringing
00:48:20
attention to and I don't know if you were busy with your life or what was going on but it was
00:48:28
just ignored and I feel like in that we failed Chiron we didn't protect him that's that's interesting a lot of the
00:48:38
dialogue was more between you and Terry than you and I she made deliberate attempts to put herself in the middle of
00:48:44
the communication so your emails I never saw your emails her and I never spoke about them yeah and this is what I have
00:48:50
a problem with with Kane is he does the same thing that Terry does he puts the blame onto other people he deflects all
00:48:57
the blame instead of just saying hey um you know yeah I messed up right uh but he's going to be asked did he miss
00:49:06
anything and then he's going to say yes he did but again I think it's putting the blame onto somebody else I I think
00:49:13
absolutely I did I think at the time the economy was was going a really bad direction for all of us I was focused on
00:49:19
work I was focused on all of a sudden we had a daughter A New Daughter coming that wasn't expected we had a lot of
00:49:25
things that were happening in life and I spent a lot of my time focused on my kids and focused on my job and I didn't
00:49:30
focus on her and not I definitely should have spent more time but I've also in hindsight in all the discussions I have
00:49:37
with other people most normal people aren't investigating their spouse on a day-to-day basis yeah but if you're
00:49:42
awesome and you listen to True Crime garage you are investigating your spouse on a
00:49:48
day-to-day basis you you have a GPS tracker on their car you have cameras in the house that they
00:49:56
don't know about you have maybe a GPS that uh you have on the person's body you know
00:50:03
I don't know where you're gonna put it use your imagination well and another thing that kyron's parents disagreed on
00:50:09
was the search of Kyron horman's home in property Kane's home and property now the deal is that police said hey why
00:50:22
don't you let us come out there and dig up your yard and we'll look for more evidence we'll look for Chiron we have
00:50:28
Kane who says no I don't want to do that and we have Desiree kyron's mom who says
00:50:34
that could have been beneficial to this whole investigation and here is Kane's explanation of that I have an open
00:50:41
invitation with law enforcement and the search and rescue teams the certified search and rescue teams to search my
00:50:47
property any day anytime when I was called I said no to the private search but I immediately said and I will
00:50:53
continue to say right now anytime anytime the Sheriff's Office and the search and rescue teams want to come
00:50:59
with their dogs it's already my property I'll qualify with my properties been searched more than the school has
00:51:05
probably and my invitation is open always open so I think what happened here was he wasn't on the property at
00:51:11
the time that they wanted to do the search and so he said no and I think one of the reasons that he did that is uh
00:51:19
I don't think this guy has a lot of great morals and I think he was also afraid of what else they'd uncover well
00:51:26
I'd be curious too if they actually at any time dug up the yard because I I I've I take Desiree's side on this I
00:51:36
believe that yes there are gaps in Terry horman's timeline that day and disposing
00:51:43
of something at home in her own property would have she would have had time to do
00:51:49
that that would have been been a convenient place for her to do such things I gotta believe though at this at the
00:51:56
same time you know there's everybody has you know you got your yard I got my yard
00:52:01
there's obvious parts of my yard if I dug something up on a Friday or buried something on a Friday that Friday night
00:52:10
Saturday Sunday Monday it's going to be very obvious that that's Disturbed ground and this next clip is going to be
00:52:17
Desiree's words to whoever might be responsible for The Disappearance of Chiron to the person or persons that
00:52:25
have Chiron I miss my son so much that I can't breathe at times my heart aches every second of every day
00:52:36
and I'm afraid that I can't live without him I know that this situation has turned
00:52:42
out much bigger than anyone could have ever imagined please do the right thing here and help
00:52:49
us find him think about Chiron he needs me as well there are so many things he hasn't
00:52:58
gotten to do yet please let him go just take him to a remote pay phone and tell him to call 9-1-1 and then we can
00:53:06
come and get him millions of people have seen his photo yeah do you wonder why someone hasn't
00:53:14
said something yet I do I do wonder that every day I pray for them to come forward and have the strength to do
00:53:25
what's right for Karen foreign [Music] we will release part 4 of the Chiron Harmon case titled the suspect until
00:53:42
then be good be kind and don't litter [Music] foreign [Music]