00:00:05
[music] [music] [music] Tis the season for candy. I'm thinking this year I might get like
00:00:27
fullsize candy bars to pass out. because we I don't get a lot of kids. >> Mhm. >> So, I thought like
00:00:36
because the the neighborhood there's not a lot of kids. I wonder I know that there's a lot of houses that
00:00:44
don't participate. So, the kids that do, I've been thinking that would probably really make their
00:00:52
trick-or- treat a little bit better. Last year I put uh a bucket on the front porch
00:01:00
>> on your head though >> with the light on bucket full of candy. And when I by the time I came home I
00:01:07
could tell not one single piece was removed from the bucket. Nobody nobody came to my house. I don't have any kids
00:01:14
on my street and my street is >> not super close to any neighborhoods like you wouldn't walk there. So, um,
00:01:23
this year I I'm going uh it's really just one family that has kids on my street and I don't know,
00:01:30
maybe they didn't trick-or-treating, maybe they took them elsewhere like >> Yeah,
00:01:34
>> it would make sense to like drive them to a neighborhood. So, this year I'm not
00:01:37
leaving a bucket cuz I I ended up with so many candy bars I one I overbought. Mhm.
00:01:45
>> Completely filled the bucket and then I've managed to eat my way through a whole bucket of candy bars.
00:01:52
>> Mhm. >> Uh and I did that in about a a four or five month time period. So >> I thought you were going to say a four
00:01:57
or five hour window. [laughter] Good. Wow. >> No, if I So like the bucket was about
00:02:04
the size of one of your speakers right there. So that's giant. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, Captain, I meant to
00:02:12
get to this when we covered the Robert Brown Heather Church case a couple weeks ago, but for whatever reason, it got
00:02:20
lost in the shuffle. Um, and I thought that our listeners would find this interesting because it it talks about
00:02:27
some individuals that we talk about quite a bit. So, this is from the Colorado Springs Gazette. If you want to
00:02:34
find uh this article along with some other articles that go with it, you can find that at I guess it would be
00:02:42
gazette.com. So uh this is uh if you remember, we talked about Robert Brown. He is the man
00:02:50
who we know has killed two people. He's been convicted of killing two people. He's sitting in prison for that. Sounds
00:02:56
like he's in Florida and he hates Florida, which is good. I hope he's extremely uncomfortable. And uh he has
00:03:03
claimed to kill as many as 51. But what is most reported in his writings is that
00:03:09
he has killed 48 people in nine states including Colorado. This article is from 2006. Uh Brown was 53 back then. Um and
00:03:21
it's it's basically this article is going to talk about serial killers. The whole the whole idea of that. though.
00:03:28
Most serial killers, someone who commits at least three killings with a cooling off period between pick victims who are
00:03:36
the same gender and of similar age and looks. Although several Browns victims, according to his writings, were young uh
00:03:46
petite women, others appear to have no similarities beyond being what he described as quote opportunities. Among
00:03:55
them, he says, were a couple camping on a California beach and two men along a Mississippi highway. Now, this quote
00:04:06
says, "When the urge comes to people like him, everybody's in danger," said Robert Wrestler, a retired FBI profiler
00:04:15
who's credited with coining the phrase serial killer. We all know that uh Robert Wrestler is one of the is is the
00:04:23
real life version of one of the characters off of Mind Hunter. Uh the article goes on to say the killers
00:04:30
usually target females or males but not both because Brown says he killed both. Wrestlers said it indicates he is likely
00:04:38
bisexual. Many killers get a sexual high during the killing. A man who was buddies with Brown in the mid 1980s and
00:04:46
who has been interviewed by investigators say Brown talked about having sex with other men. Quote, "He
00:04:52
had tried to initiate sex with me, which I basically declined. The man who didn't
00:04:57
want to uh the man who didn't want his name used said during a phone interview, "It is
00:05:05
estimated that 35 to 50 serial killers are operating in the United States at any given time and about a dozen are
00:05:12
arrested each year." Retired FBI agent John Douglas wrote on his website, johndouglasmindhunter.com,
00:05:20
quote, "They don't identify with their victims or feel any sympathy toward them."
00:05:27
>> Sorry, I lost my spot here. >> As you have a bucket on your head. >> Yeah. As they see it, they've been
00:05:34
victims all their lives, dominated and controlled by other people. This is their chance to call the shots to decide
00:05:41
who lives or dies and how someone should die. Sheriff's officials have linked Brown to 20 killings and think he
00:05:49
probably has more victims. Wrestler thinks Brown fudged the number of people he said that he killed. Quote, "They
00:05:58
tend to inflate their figures." Wrestler said, "It's very clear to me this guy is
00:06:02
on an ego trip. He may have killed a lot, but I think he is bumping it up. I think he's putting himself ahead of the
00:06:10
pack, so he becomes the most notorious in the country. Wrestler said the US serial killer convicted of the most
00:06:18
killings was John Wayne Gayy, executed for killing 33 boys and young men, most of whom he buried in a crawl space under
00:06:26
his home. Others have claimed more victims, but weren't convicted of all of them. Brown is a textbook example of a
00:06:35
serial killer. Experts said his background includes cruelty to animals, theft, burglary, and arson. He's
00:06:42
intelligent, unemotional, fixated on sex, and a loner who says he was abused during childhood. In prison since 1995
00:06:50
for killing 13-year-old Heather Dawn Church of Black Forest, Brown has spent the past four years slowly and sometimes
00:06:58
teasingly giving details to sheriff's officials about people he says he killed. He methodically described how he
00:07:07
killed some of his victims without planning the crimes. He strangled several, shot others, and used ice picks
00:07:14
or screwdrivers to stab some. One woman he said was slobbering drunk behaving like a [ __ ] She was and so what the
00:07:25
hell opportunity arose again. End quote. This is according to court documents. He
00:07:31
says he dismembered at least two women, one in his bathtub and another in a motel bathtub
00:07:38
uh with a doll butcher knife from the kitchenet. Two of the victims were neighbors and
00:07:45
others were strangers he met mostly while on what he called ramblings. He says he killed more women than men and
00:07:52
that he had sex with several of the women beforehand. Brown told sheriff's officials he couldn't explain why he
00:08:00
killed but said he has a low opinion of women. >> Uh I'm not going to >> I'm not going to go on to give him he he
00:08:08
goes on to badmouth women. M >> uh we don't need to do that. Um but wrestler will will continue to give
00:08:17
some of his thoughts about Brown. He says >> I thought you were going to say that
00:08:20
wrestler continues to badmouth women. >> No, no, no, no. Uh wrestler says he sounds like a sexually motivated type of
00:08:28
killer. These people have sex drives that are out of control. It's never consensual, always forced. They have
00:08:34
these abusive relationships and then they go off and kill. >> Yeah. So that's that's one thing. You
00:08:41
know, there was some suspicion that that he that Brown was going to burglarize the church home, Heather Dawn Church's
00:08:52
home. And he says in his, you know, in his prison confession, which was not a, you know, it's it's not
00:09:01
a legit confession, but in this prison confession, he says that he was going to burglarize the home and then Heather
00:09:10
scared him and he reacted by hitting her over the head, >> right? >> Which again, as wrestlers pointing out,
00:09:16
these guys lie. That's what they do. Um, and I believe that I believe his his most of his killings were probably
00:09:25
sexually motivated. I believe he that that it was rape that led to to the killing to cover up the rape. I believe
00:09:34
in Heather's case, as we said on our show a couple weeks ago when we covered it, the only thing missing from that
00:09:40
home was Heather. Now, I don't know, and and I'm not going to pretend to know that he knew that she was in the house.
00:09:47
He may have gone there with the intent of burglarizing the home, but I believe that the evidence shows that she was
00:09:53
actually asleep in her bed and very likely did not scare him and very likely he did not just react and strike her
00:10:00
over the head. I think he saw her sleeping and decided he was going to steal something else rather than
00:10:05
whatever he entered the home for. >> Right. And >> and there's not a bunch of evidence that
00:10:12
there was a like a brutal crime scene at >> at church's home. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. And that's the thing that
00:10:21
really threw police for uh for a loop there was there wasn't any sign of forced entry into the home and there
00:10:29
wasn't any sign of a struggle inside the home. And that's why I think she may have been asleep in her bed when he when
00:10:35
he picked her up and took her. >> Right. Um, so and if he struck her over the head with something, you would think
00:10:43
that there'd be some kind of evidence of that of that going down that way. So >> you believe so?
00:10:51
>> He's minimizing his >> They always do, don't they? >> Right. He's minimizing who he is. He's a
00:10:58
terrible piece of [ __ ] And then then on top of that, as wrestler points out, he's giving this very grandioso number
00:11:05
of 48 or 51. And that at the time would put him as the most notorious. >> That's what makes no sense is I'm going
00:11:14
to minimize the the crime, but then I'm going to maximize the number. >> Well, he here's the thing. It's an ego
00:11:22
trip. He It's like It's like having the high score on a video game. You want the
00:11:28
highest score. He wants the highest score. He doesn't want to tell you that he's actually a a rapist, a child
00:11:34
molester, a child rapist. He doesn't want to tell >> He doesn't want to tell you he used the
00:11:39
Game Genie to get it. >> He doesn't want to Right. He doesn't want to tell you that he's a despicable
00:11:44
person. He's actually embarrassed by some of his crimes and he's not embarrassed by the killing part.
00:11:50
>> Yeah. I mean, it's losers. what it is, >> you know, but and and I don't get that whole idea,
00:12:01
too. What's the number? So, let me hike up my number. So, so maybe I'll be known
00:12:07
as the most notorious. Well, he wants the attention. Yeah. >> You know, he's he's he's
00:12:13
trapped in a cell and he's going to be there forever. He's got nothing else to do. He's got nothing to occupy his time
00:12:20
or his mind. And this is a game he's going to choose to play. This is how he's going to to spend his days. And and
00:12:28
so we have >> Yeah. And and look, even if there are telling the truth, it's really hard to
00:12:34
believe any of them. And it's just like with the some of the Chris Watts uh confession stuff that's come out, it it
00:12:44
you just kind of go I I don't know. I don't know if this is even important to read because I I can't believe it
00:12:55
either way. >> And so what are what are we learning from it if we can't believe the
00:13:02
information either way? I question myself that when I'm, you know, 6 hours into murder land.
00:13:10
>> You mean specifically Chris Watts or or or Robert Brown or both? Oh, I'm just
00:13:15
saying it with the serial killers in general when they start going over information and it's like you can't
00:13:20
believe, you know, just like we we have evidence that it didn't go down the way Brown
00:13:26
said. So then [clears throat] what good is it to to talk to these individuals? >> Well, in in Chris Watts's case, it's not
00:13:38
there's no there's no benefit to learning anything from him. Um >> well with Brown the the reason
00:13:46
>> with Brown the benefit [clears throat] is that you might be able to solve some
00:13:49
cases. >> Right. Right. Right. >> You know we know what Chris Watt did. We don't we don't know the details of such
00:13:55
and there there were actually a lot of people that that emailed I got a ton of emails saying
00:14:00
>> are you going to cover his so-called confessions Chris Watts confess? And I was like man I had enough of that case.
00:14:06
I I appreciated the suggestion and I appreciated the email, but you know, one can
00:14:14
>> it it you know, it's like >> that was a case I was happy to move on from and and and like you pointed out,
00:14:19
there's not there's not [ __ ] to learn from Chris Watts. >> Yeah. And the funny thing is, uh, out of
00:14:25
all like the confessions that I've actually read and and seen and stuff, I actually I actually lean more towards
00:14:31
his being, um, probably more accurate of what happened, but that's because he's doing the
00:14:39
opposite where Brown is going, "Well, I was just uh, I just went in the house to
00:14:43
steal some stuff, >> right? >> And then this girl woke me up, so I accidentally hit her too hard on the
00:14:49
head, and then she died, so then I had to take her with me." and that's minimizing everything. But then in the
00:14:54
Chris Watts confession, it's like I did this and this is awful. And then I'm going to tell you about the next awful
00:15:01
thing I did. >> And there's not a lot of minimizing anything. It's almost >> um like that he can't, you know. So I
00:15:08
don't know. But >> but as I question why whether or not we should talk to these individuals, one of
00:15:15
my favorite shows is Mine Hunter. So don't listen to me. Well, I think I had a little too much apple cider at the
00:15:22
pumpkin patch. >> Here's an author in the same article, Steve Edgar, I believe is his name.
00:15:29
>> Um, I don't see the name of his book or his books, but uh he's a professor of
00:15:35
criminology or was at one time at the University of Houston. Uh he says, quote, "Once they are caught, you know,
00:15:44
referring to serial killers, once they're caught, they feel like it's over." in many cases they have the
00:15:50
attention that they haven't had in the past. And then later in the article, uh, Robert K. Wrestler goes on to say, um,
00:16:00
in regards to Brown, he says, I believe his confessions are for just simply for the attention that
00:16:11
that he's getting some notoriety even though he's in prison. and he says, quote, "This is the day he's living
00:16:18
for." End quote. >> Yeah. Yeah. These these sick bastards drive me >> Yeah. But I I kind of like what the um
00:16:28
the people that spoke to Robert Brown. We we recommended Charlie Hess's book. >> Yeah. I have a lot of respect for them.
00:16:34
>> Well, well, a couple weeks ago. Yeah. >> And we recommended um The Devil's Right-Hand Man book the week before
00:16:41
that. >> Yeah. So Charlie Hess and Lou Schmidt and and those uh they called themselves
00:16:47
something kind of funny like the Apple Dumpling Gang or something like that. Um [clears throat]
00:16:53
>> yeah, me you and uh >> the Apple Dumpling Gang. >> Yeah. Me, you, and let's get like uh uh
00:17:00
Rener and um Morgan. >> Yeah. >> And get a few other people will be the Blood Hound Gang. Remember the Blood
00:17:06
Hound Gang? >> Oh yeah. I >> not not the band. I'm talking cuz there's people out there like, "Yeah,
00:17:12
the band. [ __ ] yeah." >> That's what I was talking about. The band. >> I'm talking about the actual They took
00:17:17
the name from um >> What the hell was that show? 321 Contact. Remember 321 Contact? It was
00:17:24
like a science show on PBS. >> Uhhuh. >> Well, not every episode, but at the end
00:17:30
of some of the episodes, they had a little thing called the Blood Hound Gang, and it was these kids that solved
00:17:36
mysteries. >> Mhm. So that's where where the name Blood Hound Gang. >> Yeah. Anytime somebody says Blood Hound
00:17:42
Gang, all I can think of is the bass players penis because uh I went to see a festival and uh Blood Hound Gang was one
00:17:52
of the bigger groups, one of the groups that me and my buddies were excited to see and they were running around on
00:17:58
stage being all goofy and then all of a sudden their bass player leaves the stage and all of a sudden, you know, I'm
00:18:06
rocking out to the Blood Hound Gang, >> right? You're nothing but a mammal. >> And yeah, just Yeah. Do it like they do
00:18:13
on the Discovery Channel, >> right? >> Um and the whole crowd is looking at me and I'm like, "Oh my god,
00:18:20
>> my penis is out. >> Why are they looking at me?" Yeah, that's the first thing I thought was my
00:18:25
penis was out. >> But I turned around, >> why are you mammals looking at me? And
00:18:30
the bass player, which I think he might have like took his I know he had no shirt on when he started, but then I
00:18:37
think maybe he took his pants off. >> Did he do the Chili Peppers where they cover it up with a sock? Remember the
00:18:45
Chili Peppers used to be pretty famous for that? >> But they also would like rock out just
00:18:49
in their underwear. And I think for a while he was just playing the gig in his underwear. But when I noticed everybody
00:18:56
was staring at me and my penis wasn't hanging out that I was like I should maybe there's somebody behind me. So I
00:19:03
turned around and it was the bass player and he's rocking his bass. He's on top.
00:19:08
I had seats. He's standing on top of my seat rocking out. Um you know very um airheads like
00:19:18
>> right >> uh >> that's a movie for the young people out there. You know, the legs were spread wide.
00:19:25
>> Oh, yeah. Like the bass player from Airheads. Yeah. >> But but but the thing was is when I turn
00:19:30
around, so I'm like, "Oh, naked man, but bass is right in front of the dude's penis." And then so I turn I kind of
00:19:37
like turn around like, "Oh, that's what everybody's looking at." So now I'm like
00:19:40
turn now I turn around and there's I don't know good uh 5,000 people staring at me like what are you doing? Why
00:19:47
aren't you why aren't you looking back? Uh why are you looking at us? And so the
00:19:52
next time I turned around to get a glimpse of what was happening, he moved the base and there it was
00:19:59
>> fully erect. Sorry, hold on. Airheads, man. I've kind of forgot about that. Was
00:20:04
a great movie. Good soundtrack, too. >> Yeah, >> the the Ramones are on that soundtrack.
00:20:09
>> I can't remember what their band was called. Um, >> the Lone Rangers. >> Yeah, the
00:20:14
>> remember because Joe >> is his name Joe Montana. So he was playing the actor, he was
00:20:22
playing a DJ at this record station that played rock and roll music, hard rock. >> And the he he's giving them a lecture on
00:20:32
they can't be the lone rangers, you know, the plural rangers. They're not alone, [laughter]
00:20:40
>> right? That's what makes such such a great >> If you haven't seen that movie, that's a
00:20:44
that's one to watch. Fire that one up >> there. Yeah, there was this one uh there
00:20:49
was this singer songwriter in and Key West that I when I go down there and watch, he would play like the afternoon
00:20:57
crowd and he had one record and it was called Greta's tits instead of greatest hits.
00:21:03
>> Oh, >> it was Greta's tits, >> but just the way he would say uh get my recordits
00:21:10
and you go, what did he just say? Greatest tits. So, yeah, the Lone Rangers >> [music]
00:21:23
[music]