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Netcredit. Credit to the people. >> There's a time and a plate for a filt of fish,
00:00:21
but breakfast is for sausage biscuits. >> McDonald's breakfast comes first. Heat.
00:00:37
[Music] Hey, Heat. [Music] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
00:01:15
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man who knows that all of my intros last week were
00:01:21
meant for the week before. Here is the captain. It's good to see you and good to be seen. Thanks for listening. Thanks
00:01:27
for telling a friend. [Music] It's really heating up in the garage. So, this week we are cooling off with
00:01:37
some delicious garage beer. Classic lime. This is a great summertime beer. Heck, chug one after cutting the grass
00:01:46
on a Saturday. This is very refreshing. And when the days are hitting 94, 95, 96°, I go for something a little
00:01:56
lighter. And when I said garage beer, that's the name of the actual beer. We're not just calling it any beer
00:02:03
garage beer. This is garage beer. ABV, 4% garage, three and 3/4 bottle caps out of five.
00:02:11
And let's give some praise to our good friends for helping us out. First up, a shout out to Jody Harding in Sturgeon
00:02:22
County, Alberta, Canada. We love the Canadian listeners. One of my fondest memories, Captain, is fishing up in
00:02:29
Canada. The best tasting fish in the world. >> And a big we like you jib goes out to
00:02:33
Danielle in Vermont. >> Next up, here's a cheers to Nikki from Cincinnati. Oh, >> IO.
00:02:40
>> Go Reds. >> And a big tall hands in the air to Candy from Bristol, Indiana. And last, but
00:02:46
certainly not least, we have a doublefisted cheers to Emily and Violet from Knoxville. That's in Tennessee.
00:02:54
Everyone we just mentioned went to true crimegar.com and clicked on the pint glass helping us
00:03:00
to fill up the old garage fridge for this week's show. And for that, we thank Yeah. Bw beer run. If you're listening
00:03:10
on the Apple podcast app, then you can see all the extra goodness that we're giving you. And to listen to the extra
00:03:18
goodness, just hit subscribe and check out Off the Record. And Colonel, that's enough of the BS N. And my my my, it's
00:03:25
so much goodness. All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
00:03:34
[Music] Wednesday, June 4th, 2025 came and went just like most Wednesdays for me and likely all of
00:03:54
you listening in as well. That was 6 weeks ago. And for most of us, it was just another day, just another cog in
00:04:02
the middle of another mundane work week. For me, I can look back at the calendar
00:04:08
and fill in some of the blanks of what I was doing on that Wednesday. On that day, a man named Grant Harden, a
00:04:16
one-time police chief and convicted murderer who had escaped from prison on May 27th, was still on the lamb.
00:04:24
I no doubt was busy learning about the prison he escaped from and the crimes he committed that landed him there. I very
00:04:33
likely ran an errand or two, completed a house chore, had a nice dinner, and if I
00:04:38
was lucky, I did a little reading before bed. That was very likely my day, and yours probably shared some similarities.
00:04:47
But up in northeastern Ohio, just about 99 mi up 71 North from my place, there were two families grieving the loss of
00:04:56
their dear loved ones. Katherine Brown was 33 years old. She was a daughter and a sister. She was loved, is loved, and
00:05:07
missed dearly. Carnell Sledge was 40 years old. He was a son and a brother. He was loved, is loved, and he too is
00:05:19
missed dearly. Sadly, June 4th, 2025 marked 6 years since the two friends were murdered. They were talking in a
00:05:30
park on a beautiful sunny afternoon when someone very evil chose to take these two lovely people out of this world and
00:05:38
away from their family and friends. So, on that day, Catherine and Carnell's families and friends know exactly what
00:05:47
they were doing. They were hurting. Their hearts were very heavy, filled with love, fondness, sorrow, and anger.
00:05:57
The Brown and Sledge families have been hurting and grieving for 6 years. They have been reminding those that will
00:06:05
listen and pay attention that their loved ones were taken away, murdered. They have been asking the public and the
00:06:13
police for help. Because while they will always miss Catherine and Carnell, and while they
00:06:21
will always be grieving this very difficult loss, they are also hoping to start healing someday.
00:06:28
But the healing process most likely can only start for them after we get justice
00:06:35
for Catherine and Carnell. Their killer is still out there. The victim's families are out there to
00:06:44
remind you of that and we are too. This is the still unsolved double homicide case of Katherine Brown and Carell
00:06:55
Sledge. And this is True Crime Garage. [Music] The Cleveland Park bench murders. The
00:07:17
Rocky River double murders, the Cleveland Metrop Park murders, all refer to one single case. No matter what you
00:07:24
want to title it, these are names given to the unsolved double homicide of Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown who were
00:07:32
shot and killed while sitting on a park bench in the Cleveland Metro Parks Rocky
00:07:38
River Reservation. This took place on June 4th, 2019. Going forward, I think it's most
00:07:47
appropriate to title this the parkbenched murders. Now, if this is sounding familiar to you, well, then you
00:07:55
would be exactly right, as we like to say. That is because we covered this case in episodes 660 back in April of
00:08:04
2023 and then again earlier this year in episodes 820 and 821 where we were able
00:08:10
to do much more of a deep and more thorough examination of the circumstances of this mystery as more
00:08:19
information had come out. But sadly, the case drags on with no justice for these
00:08:25
two folks who just seem like some really good people. Cornell Sledge and Kate Brown were very familyoriented
00:08:33
individuals who loved and enjoyed their families and their community. In our most recent episodes, we were able to
00:08:40
push forward a very good suspect. So, if you have not heard those episodes, cue them up on your garage listening device,
00:08:47
but you can finish this up first if you wish as they work handinand here. So, stick with us here because we have a big
00:08:56
batch of new information. Two other cases and items to be discussed. Are these other murder cases connected to
00:09:04
the double unsolved homicide case, the Parkbench murders? Well, that is what people here locally are asking and what
00:09:12
we will examine here today. Now, the internet captain, this might be the garage beer talking here, but remember
00:09:20
that really great kid show, Fraggle Rock. >> Do I remember? It's one of the best
00:09:24
freaking theme songs of all time, man. >> There was a character called the Trash
00:09:28
Heap, and the Trash Heap knows all and sees all. The Fraggles would travel to the trash heap to ask it questions,
00:09:35
seeking knowledge and wisdom. That's the internet. Speaking of giving things titles, let's rename the internet the
00:09:41
trash heap. In some ways, it certainly feels right. The internet tells me that the case has gained renewed attention
00:09:50
due to its inclusion in the Netflix series Unsolved Mysteries. I'd say that is somewhat true. However, I think a
00:09:57
more accurate statement is that the case has received national attention because
00:10:02
of Netflix Unsolved Mysteries. And that was a great episode, by the way. Go watch it. Here locally, especially if we
00:10:10
go up to Northeast Ohio and the greater Cleveland area, this case has never really strayed very far from the media
00:10:18
at all. It's received a good amount of coverage. And of course, we've covered it here on our podcast. Bill Huffman,
00:10:23
friend of our show, who host Who Killed, covered it on his show as well. And some
00:10:29
other podcasts have hit this case over the time. Now, sadly, it's been just over 6 years. The 6-year anniversary was
00:10:39
in June, less than 6 weeks ago, and these poor families are still left without justice for their loved ones. A
00:10:48
little recap of the case summary for persons who are new to this case and listening in today. Thank you for
00:10:55
listening, by the way. June 4th, 2019 in the Rocky River Reservation. This is near the Lraine Road Bridge. We have
00:11:05
victims here were longtime friends. Carnell Sledge, he was just 40 years old, and Catherine Kate Brown, who was
00:11:12
33. The two were meeting at the park. It is believed that they had likely done so
00:11:17
before as the park and specifically this location of the park was close to where
00:11:23
Kate lived and she was known to frequent the park. This was an impromptu meeting
00:11:28
though. In fact, Carnell had somewhere else that he needed to be that day that was a scheduled event. It was a dinner
00:11:37
with family at grandma's house. So, this meeting with his friend Kate, longtime friend Kate, would cause him to be late
00:11:46
for that meeting. But Kate was a dear friend, and Cardell was known for helping people and being a very loyal
00:11:55
dude. And wasn't she seen crying while talking on the phone earlier that day? >> Her movements are fairly well
00:12:03
documented. The one part that is intriguing to me is there seems to be a little window of time or two during the
00:12:12
portion of that day where she is not accounted for or we we don't know what she was up to at that time. Could simply
00:12:19
have just been at home. But yeah, it see something was up with Kate that day. And
00:12:24
that is what her family and Carnell's family have always said from the beginning that they think that this
00:12:32
impromptu meeting was brought up by could have been either party. But it seems to be that the general consensus
00:12:41
here leaned toward that Carnell was probably there to help Kate with something or talk through
00:12:49
something with Kate that day. It was only because of interaction between the two of them that they came up with, hey,
00:12:55
let's meet over here at the last minute. The other thing too with this last minute meeting here, Captain, that I
00:13:00
think it's easy to come to this this speculation here or conclusion in the speculation is that I think this meeting
00:13:07
was supposed to be a rather quick meeting, rather short, because as said, Cornell had somewhere else to go and he
00:13:14
wasn't going to let his family down. He wasn't going to be a no-show. And we talked about this when we covered it
00:13:19
last time. He didn't call or text anybody in his family to even let them know that he would be late. To me, this
00:13:26
dude's rather responsible. I think to me that shows and he's considerate as well.
00:13:32
That shows that he didn't plan to be there very long. >> Yeah. If you don't have a buddy that you
00:13:36
can vent to about life, get you one. And that's what these buddies were. They were like vent buddies. So, hey,
00:13:45
something's going on. Can you meet me real quick? Let me get this off my chest. That's what it seems like to me.
00:13:51
And like you said, because of his actions and or lack of actions, one could assume that this meeting was going
00:13:58
to was going to be a pretty quick meeting. I agree 100% with that. So, shortly after arriving at the park,
00:14:04
Carell Sledge and Kate Brown were shot and killed. Carnell was shot in the head. The murder scene suggests this
00:14:11
happened while he was sitting on a park bench. And this park bench is fairly close to the pulloff small gravel
00:14:21
parking lot located near that Lraine Road bridge. He very likely never saw the attacker or attackers. Kate was shot
00:14:32
and killed as well. She may have been sitting on the park bench as well when the attack first occurred. However, the
00:14:39
crime scene suggests that she likely had enough time to stand up or even possibly
00:14:44
try to flee, but was then gunned down. It is uncertain if she ever saw the attacker or attackers. And the murder
00:14:54
weapon, a small caliber gun, was not found at the scene and to this day has not been recovered. It was initially
00:15:01
thought by police when they're arriving on the scene that this could have been some kind of murder suicide. I've heard
00:15:12
the audio from the body camera footage or the audio from the the call, but when the officers are on the scene, you can
00:15:22
hear clearly one of the officers saying to the other one after sounds like they're out of breath, like they've been
00:15:28
they've been working the scene vigilantly, >> right? They can't seem to locate the gun
00:15:35
and and they don't locate the gun and and the officer is telling the other officer, "We couldn't find any there's
00:15:42
no weapon there." And he almost sounds like out of breath, but also like confused. Like this is I think a part of
00:15:49
the reason why it may not be solved, you know? And look, we're all fallible. And
00:15:54
so they show up on the scene, they think they're arriving to one type of crime or
00:16:00
one type of situation, and it turns out that it's not that kind of situation. You can hear almost the confusion or the
00:16:08
surprise in the officer's voice. Yeah. But it's also more complicated because this is a crime that takes place in a
00:16:16
park in broad daylight. There's a lot of land that somebody could dispose of a weapon on the land, but there's also
00:16:23
water right by. Be hard enough to find a gun in a field, let alone in in water. The Cleveland Metrop Parks Police
00:16:31
Department has been leading this investigation. Recently, we've learned that, and we covered this earlier this
00:16:38
year with the assistance from the FBI. Now, what we learned more recently is that there is also additional outside
00:16:48
assistance. This is according to the current police chief for the metrop parks where they're saying that they've also
00:16:57
communicated and had interaction and involvement by the US Marshall Service and Ohio BCI. Of course, we would expect
00:17:04
Ohio BCI to be involved. The US Marshall Service apparently involved as well. So
00:17:10
kudos to the Metro Parks for getting other agencies involved in this investigation, which clearly seems to be
00:17:20
a complicated investigation as the time drags on and it's now 6 years. We've not
00:17:27
seen an arrest. But like you said, law enforcement shows up and initially they're like, "Is this a murder
00:17:32
suicide?" Okay, we can't find the weapon, so that doesn't make much sense. Okay. Well, they're at a park. They're
00:17:38
in a public location, so maybe it's a theft. And then nothing stolen. Phones, cars, jewelry, valuables, they all
00:17:47
remain with the victims. So then you go, well, this doesn't seem like it was a a
00:17:51
robbery. Exactly. And it's important to note here that both Kate and Carnell drove separately to this location.
00:18:01
Carnell was coming from work and Kate, it appears, was coming from her apartment complex, which was not
00:18:08
terribly far from this area of the park. And they arrived separately in their respective vehicles. And like the
00:18:16
captain said, their valuables that they would have had on their person or in their vehicles, all those valuables were
00:18:24
located at the scene, either on their person or in their vehicles. After the airing of the Unsolved Mysteries
00:18:32
episode, as said, this brought the case to a wider audience, but also generated tips, new tips, which obviously is
00:18:40
great. The two families, Carnell's and Kates, were begging the public for tips, information, and help. Even posting
00:18:48
signs and setting up at the park, asking folks in the park and driving by for anything at all, any information at all
00:18:56
that they may have had. They had signs saying, "Were you here on this date at this time?" or "Were you driving by on
00:19:03
this date at this time?" They were seeking information. As we say, the metrop park, while beautiful and
00:19:11
harmonious, the folks in charge maybe not so much as they ordered the removal of all and any signs posted and set up
00:19:19
by the families. So, the families both very smart. They have leaned on the media and the local media. This is
00:19:28
getting a good amount of coverage as we've already said. Regardless, it has now been six years and the case remains
00:19:35
unsolved. Family members in the community have been working to keep the case in the public eye, including
00:19:42
organizing events and spreading awareness. The FBI is offering a $25,000 reward for information leading to an
00:19:50
arrest and conviction with additional reward money possibly available as well. >> Yeah, I think possibly the reward goes
00:20:00
up to 100,000. >> That's correct. I believe a big chunk of that reward offering is coming from the
00:20:08
families or money raised by one of the families. Right. As said, these families have really been very visible and
00:20:18
incredibly vocal about this case and getting justice for their loved ones. Just a quick background because we did
00:20:27
we did go a little more in depth with this in our previous coverage, but Carnell was an AVT tech at Crescent
00:20:34
Digital in Strongsville, Ohio. So, very nearby. and he also volunteered as a youth consultant for Applewood Centers.
00:20:42
He was known for volunteering there, coaching youth sports and much more. He was he was referred to as Coach Sledge
00:20:52
and the kids from my understanding still call him that and very miss they miss him dearly. He's described as a big
00:20:59
teddy bear of a man, friends and loved ones. Many called him Nell. And Katherine affectionately was called Kate
00:21:06
by just about everyone that we could find in our research. She worked at the KCG Goods in Brook Park, Ohio. So also
00:21:14
nearby as well. Nell and Kate were killed, shot, and murdered in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area at the
00:21:20
Rocky River Reservation. The Rocky River Reservation is a 2500 acre preserve along the Rocky River. It's very
00:21:30
expansive and beautiful. Looking at Cleveland on a map, you will see this large green line. That is what they call
00:21:36
the Cleveland Metro Parks Emerald Necklace Trail. The Emerald Necklace connects Scenic Park at the north end of
00:21:43
the Rocky River Reservation. Goes south through Milstream Run Reservation and then east to Rexville Reservation and
00:21:53
the Tow Path Trail. A lot of bicyclists and pedestrians you would expect to see in this area, especially at the time of
00:22:00
this murder. As we said, this is late afternoon, early evening. So, this would have been in broad daylight. The trail
00:22:08
is part of the Metro Parks extensive trail network of over 325 miles of trails across 18 park
00:22:16
reservations spanning nearly 25,000 acres. So that's a big huge beautiful park that has these different parks
00:22:25
inside right with these different reservations as they are called and again given all that trail work that is
00:22:32
there you would expect to see hikers bicyclists and yet on this day when these two good people were killed there
00:22:42
is apparently no eyewitnesses and remember there there was a gun used in this homicide in this double homicide
00:22:49
and there's No ear witnesses either, which is incredibly difficult to believe. Something the family has had a
00:22:57
hard time even trying to conceive. The idea that nobody saw anything, nobody heard anything, even with cars going
00:23:06
over that bridge and traveling nearby, even persons not in in the park per se. But one of the people we brought up
00:23:13
obviously was somebody that was parked in that pulloff gravel parking lot which is in view of the park bench where
00:23:21
Carell was sitting when he was when he was shot and killed. Well, there's so many things that make this case
00:23:26
fascinating. One, it takes place in a public location, so we should have some eyewitnesses or some ear witnesses. It
00:23:35
also happens during the day. What law enforcement is able to figure out based on cell phone data and other determining
00:23:43
factors is that both of these victims arrive just after 5:00 p.m. and the bodies are discovered around 518. So
00:23:53
that gives us roughly a 14minute time period. And that that's really fascinating. It's it's hard in a lot of
00:24:01
cases to shorten that time frame or or to get that timeline down to just 14 minutes. And some of the things that law
00:24:09
enforcement kind of speculate because there's no eyewitness, there are no ear witnesses, did this suspect, did they
00:24:18
have uh extensive knowledge of the park, the entrances, the exits of the park, and also just the daily traffic through
00:24:27
those areas. And then the other speculation that has been made not just by law enforcement but many armchair
00:24:34
detectives on the interwebs is >> there a silencer used? Yeah. >> Many armchair detectives on the trash
00:24:44
heap speculate maybe that there was a silencer used. >> You get an extra garage beer lime here
00:24:51
today because you are spot on there, my friend. That that's that's got to be the
00:24:55
speculation, right? that you would be a [ __ ] to not have that cross your mind that there's a possibility that a
00:25:01
suppressor was used. And we've we don't have we're not going to pretend we're just a couple garage guys here. We're
00:25:08
not going to pretend to have extensive knowledge on firearms, but we have covered other cases where we do know and
00:25:16
have 100% proof and know that it's fact that a suppressor or silencer was used. And so we've gone through the research
00:25:24
of what does it take to legally obtain a suppressor and that it's a rigorous process and it's an involved process.
00:25:34
It's it can be expensive and your name is forever tied to the serial number on that suppressor. And we talked about
00:25:46
this before. So it's it's a they call it a stamp to that you receive a stamp. you
00:25:52
apply for a stamp to be approved to purchase one. And then the way that they would try to police this or keep tabs on
00:26:02
things is meaning like if somebody from the ATF knocks on my door right now and I have a a a stamp allowing me to buy a
00:26:09
suppressor, they can knock on my door 24/7 for no rhyme or reason and say, "We need you to produce that silencer right
00:26:19
now." showing that I didn't apply for the stamp, purchase the silencer, and then just give it to the captain as a
00:26:26
birthday gift, and he's running around pointing it at people. >> Well, let me point something out that is
00:26:31
I think is obvious. If I tell you, "Hey, Colonel, sit down for a second. I'm going to play you a sound. You tell me
00:26:39
what this sounds like." And I played you something that sounds like a a a gunshot, you would go, "That's a
00:26:45
gunshot." But when you're in an apartment across the street or you're on a bike ride maybe with some some
00:26:52
earphones in listening uh to your favorite band like Creed or >> no? How about no?
00:27:02
>> Uh when you're just blasting Creed trying to get your miles in and and then you hear something in the distance or
00:27:10
again on top of other noises you're hearing. I think there could be some ear witnesses that just don't know what they
00:27:18
heard that day. >> That Well, that's a great question and I think that's interesting to ponder, but
00:27:23
with all of the media coverage that it's received and the the people looking for
00:27:30
information here, I would hope that that request hit the earballs of those people
00:27:35
and they would at least come forward and say, "Look, I heard something. I was uncertain of what I heard at the time."
00:27:41
>> Yeah. >> This is what I remember. Maybe I remember seeing a a blue truck. Even if
00:27:45
you think it's a something of of no significance at all. Let let the police sort that part of it out. I feel what
00:27:53
you're saying because, you know, I used to live in this not so great neighborhood for many, many years and we
00:27:59
we would regularly get cars, you know, old junk cars just kind of backfiring, right? And you would you would think
00:28:07
partly because of the area, my mind jumped to like, oh, that must have been a gunshot. And it was usually just the a
00:28:13
car backfiring. And now I live in a much more fun neighborhood where there's and
00:28:18
especially given the calendar this time of year you get a lot of fireworks and it might just be a single one. Um heck
00:28:25
in my neighborhood they will light off fireworks for it doesn't take the 4th of July. Halloween it's surprising they
00:28:32
fire off so many fireworks on Halloween. I it makes very little sense to me but I
00:28:38
but I do enjoy it. So within that Rocky River Reservation, right inside that beautiful park, this is located at the
00:28:46
city of Fairview Park in Kyhoga County, Ohio. As said, Nell and Kate met there late afternoon, early evening. Someone
00:28:54
snuck up on them and fired three shots. Boom, boom, boom. Hitting all three and left them there to die.
00:29:05
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[Music] All right, we are back. Cheers mates. Tall can hands in the air. Cheers to
00:34:03
you, Colonel. >> Tall can hands very high in the air. And cheers to all the people up front. And
00:34:09
cheers double cheers to the people in the back. Now, we gave that description of the Cleveland Metro Parks, which is a
00:34:18
for a lack of a better definition, it's a conglomerate of all these smaller parks that make up this big, huge,
00:34:26
beautiful area. Now, we want to really echo names of two of the locations within the very large metro parks in
00:34:36
from that description. One, the Rocky River Reservation, which you've heard that name multiple times already in this
00:34:43
podcast, and two, the Millream Run Reservation. These more precise locations are paramount to this week's
00:34:51
true crime story. Because more recently since the Parkbench murders, a murder took place in the Millere Run
00:35:00
reservation and then a homicide took place very recently that has a direct connection to the Rocky River
00:35:07
Reservation portion of the metrop parks. The first case that we need to discuss here, Captain, is the body of Leroy
00:35:17
Johnston was located deep in a wooded area of the Milstream Run reservation on September 30th, 2023.
00:35:29
Now, I got to walk something back here a little bit. I heavily criticized the Metro Parks for what I thought was their
00:35:40
bungling of of the Parkbench murders investigation. And I have to walk it back a little bit, but I'm not walking
00:35:47
it back all the way because I still stand by that. I think there were things that were there were missteps, which
00:35:53
again, we're all human. I make mistakes every week, right? Every week of my life, I've made a mistake. I guarantee
00:36:00
it. But I also think that there's things that they've not corrected. And I also I
00:36:05
I think that there is a weird like posturing that they're doing that it's like we're doing everything we can and
00:36:12
we're very capable and and I question both of those both of that posturing. But anyway,
00:36:18
>> you shouldn't apologize until they actually solve the case. >> Well, I I I'm giving a partial apology
00:36:24
here because I said that I don't think that they were equipped to solve a homicide and they did solve a homicide.
00:36:29
So either they got the comeuppins that they needed or they or I was wrong. They were
00:36:36
able to sort this out fairly quickly. It took a while to make an arrest, but there was an arrest of a Victor Vdler.
00:36:46
His last name is spelled V E N D L E R. He was arrested in May of 2024. Remember, the body was found in
00:36:56
September of 2023 when he is arrested and charged with the murder of this Leroy Johnson. He
00:37:03
initially plead innocent back in 2023. But then just last month, he changed that to plea guilty. This was just two
00:37:13
weeks ago on June 30th, 2025 that he was sentenced to life in prison. >> Right. The reason why this one is looked
00:37:25
at and was looked at by at least the public as a possible connection to the still unsolved park bench murders is the
00:37:33
victim is found in another location of this metrop parks found as said in a deep deep in a wooded area. The body was
00:37:42
discovered by two mushroom hunters whose their dog went rogue on him and took off. And when they find their dog, the
00:37:53
dog is what stumbled upon the body, if you will. And this poor guy, Leroy, he was 77 years old, an elderly man. And
00:38:03
what they were able to determine here, Captain, is that Leroy was killed in the park. he was killed, where his body was
00:38:11
found. The early reports that were coming out shortly after the arrest of this victor was that the two knew each
00:38:20
other. Now, they didn't give any background on that at the time. what we would then learn when he changes his
00:38:28
plea to guilty. And I don't think this is anything that they learned from Victor. I think this is information they
00:38:35
already knew within their investigation, information that they had sused out themselves. But the details of it and
00:38:44
best that we get is that in fact actually the two of them were in a relationship and Victor is much much
00:38:51
younger than the victim Leroy. I believe Victor was only 22 years old at the time
00:38:57
of the homicide. So, they're in some kind of rel and when we say relationship, it it seems like it was a
00:39:04
romantic relationship because the judge that had to hand down the sentencing on June 30th of this year said one of the
00:39:12
worst parts, one of the worst details of the case that he had learned about was that this Victor individual was able to
00:39:21
murder somebody that he that loved him and that he once loved. And the details of the case are this. We
00:39:32
knew initially after the arrest that police were saying that Victor lured Leroy to the park that day then killed
00:39:42
him. So not on the day that he was found. It was about 6 days later that the body was found. But I'm guessing
00:39:49
they probably found this is this is the Batman utility belt tool that is that is
00:39:55
helping law enforcement as said cell phones. I'm I'm guessing that there was cell phone communication between victim
00:40:01
and perpetrator where they have communication saying, "Hey, meet me at the park." And of course, we know 6 days
00:40:08
later they find the victim's body there. And what they sorted out is that they went for a hike. So I'm guessing the
00:40:17
plan was meet me here. we're going to go for a hike. And at some point, Victor pulls a gun on Leroy, walks him deep
00:40:24
into the woods, kills him, leaves him there, and then police are left to to sort it out after the body is then found
00:40:33
6 days later. This was looked at for obvious reasons. The Metro Parks is involved. It's a gun crime. One thing
00:40:40
that I find to be intriguing as far as does Victor make a good suspect? he would be awfully young. And it appears
00:40:48
that there was a direct firm relationship between the victim and the perpetrator here. I think that it had
00:40:55
that been the case, which I don't think, you know, that's been the debate all along with the park bench murders. Was
00:41:01
this a random thing? Were they targeted? I really think that they were they were
00:41:07
very likely targeted. And if that's the case, then one of them had some kind of relationship. One of them knew the
00:41:13
killer. And it doesn't seem like they've drawn any line between Victor to either of our victims here in the
00:41:24
park bench. >> Well, one, he killed somebody in the park, but two, he does live close to
00:41:30
their murder scene. >> Yes, he does. And now he's been sent away for life in prison.
00:41:37
>> But do we know what kind of gun was used? Because we know what kind of gun was
00:41:42
used in the park bench murder. That's correct. Um, no, we don't know what kind of gun was used uh for the Leroy Johnson
00:41:50
homicide. I don't believe that has been reported. There's been very little reporting on that case. And I think in
00:41:59
large part that's because police and then later the prosecutor had a whole bunch of information that they figured
00:42:07
out in their investigation. And that's why I think ultimately he changed his plea from innocent to guilty. I think he
00:42:14
realized I look I don't stand a chance once I get the court here. And I don't think that because it appears to be a
00:42:23
open andsh shut case that a lot of the details of it didn't make their way to the media and then to the public. But
00:42:32
they they do have the indictments are on the Cleveland prosecutor's website. the
00:42:39
Kyhoga County Prosecutor's website. The indictments are short. I did find one person who post and said that a portion
00:42:47
that's being left out from the storytelling in the media is that Victor actually went by Victoria. And I think
00:42:55
that the indictments initially charged with four different counts, right? charged with the kidnapping because
00:43:02
walking the victim off of the path into the woods, charged with the murder, charged with leaving the corpse there.
00:43:09
So there there were four different charges and I can't remember the fourth. I could pull it up here on my other
00:43:14
screen, but the indictments read as on his or her person with everything with the gun, with his or her, his or her.
00:43:24
So, I think that there is some possible validation that maybe Victor was going by the name of Victoria at the time of
00:43:32
this homicide, >> but maybe they're holding back this information because they do have some
00:43:39
connection to other crimes. >> Possibly. I I think that had that been the case, especially had it been this in
00:43:47
this case with this case being such publicized, I think we would be hearing that. Again, it was it's been relatively
00:43:54
soon since or sorry, relatively recent since he was sentenced. So maybe that's not the case. But again, there doesn't
00:44:01
seem to be any line that one can draw from that perpetrator to either of our victims here. And as said, he would have
00:44:10
been quite young when that took place. one that I think is of that seems to be fascinating and capturing the attention
00:44:18
locally here with much more suspicion which a high with a higher degree of suspicion of possibly being connected is
00:44:27
a case that that just 3 weeks prior to the very sad sixth anniversary of the day that Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown
00:44:35
were so senselessly murdered, there was another disturbing and troubling case of
00:44:40
a very violent and very public murder that takes takes place this time not in the Rocky River Reservation, but just a
00:44:47
short drive away in a place called Cam's Corners. Cam's Corners is a neighborhood
00:44:53
on the west side of Cleveland, Ohio. This is another gun homicide in broad daylight in the middle of what should
00:45:01
have been a great afternoon in Cleveland. The sun was shining. Folks were outside enjoying the sun when a
00:45:07
very loud gunshot rang out on a an otherwise quiet residential street in Cam's Corners. When we are talking
00:45:16
Cleveland news, you know, my go-to is News 5. So, of course, most of this is from the good reporters at News5. It's a
00:45:24
sunny Wednesday afternoon, May 14th, 2025. So, kids are still in school at this time. Folks are out going about
00:45:32
their day. One man is outside of his home tending to his lawn. A neighbor of his is in her living room inside her
00:45:40
home. This is across the street. It's about 1:30 in the afternoon. She hears a bang. She hears the gunshot. She looks
00:45:50
across the street. She sees two things right away. Her neighbor is down on the ground and a dark SUV is driving away.
00:46:01
So, she springs into action. runs across the street. She knows the neighbor. He has lived there a long
00:46:08
time. He is wellliked. As she gets closer, she sees he's covered in blood. She tries desperately to help, yelling
00:46:15
his name, Tom. Tom. He is not responding. She kneels down and checks his pulse. He's gone. Dead by the time
00:46:23
that she gets across the street. Emergency services are called and they are on the scene with the quickness. And
00:46:28
sadly, the EMS confirms what the neighbor found. Tom, the neighbor, was shot and killed. He died in the street
00:46:37
of his neighborhood. Responding, police were now on the scene and looking for that dark colored SUV. It was determined
00:46:47
that Thomas Barton Overall, aged 68, died after being shot while he was outside mowing his lawn. He moved to
00:46:57
Cleveland in the 80s. He was retired. He worked part-time at Rocket Arena, mostly
00:47:04
in guest relations at the Cavs games. Several neighbors told News 5 that they were struggling bad with the loss. They
00:47:13
were all in shock. As said, he was wellknown, well-liked. Folks said he was meticulous about taking care of his
00:47:20
house and his property, in particular, his lawn. He was a member of a hiking club. He had hiked over 6,000 miles with
00:47:28
the Cleveland Hiking Club on that Friday. So, two days after he was murdered, on that Friday, Tom was going
00:47:36
to travel overseas for a two-week hiking trip with the Cleveland Club. They were
00:47:42
to be hiking in Spain. Police quickly located the dark SUV that was spotted at the scene of the murder right after the
00:47:52
gunshot was heard. According to Cleveland police, officers responded and located a vehicle believed to have been
00:47:58
involved nearby. A suspect was found dead inside the vehicle from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot
00:48:07
wound. The vehicle was found on Hogsback Lane. This is near the Stinch Comb Grath
00:48:16
Memorial in the Rocky River Reservation. The perpetrator, the killer has been identified as 66-year-old Brian Hurt of
00:48:26
Cleveland and the identification came by way of the Kyhoga County Medical Examiner's Office. Brian Hurt lived at
00:48:36
15717 Mun Road. Okay, these two were neighbors. So Neighbor shoots Neighbor, drives to the very nearby Stonesthrow
00:48:48
Park, Rocky River Reservation, and turns the gun on himself. >> Wow. This seems very crazy, very
00:48:56
bizarre, but when you start digging into it, a lot of it kind of suddenly makes sense. So apparently, Captain, when the
00:49:06
police call Tom's sister, so Tom didn't have any kids. He wasn't married. He didn't have any kids. So they call his
00:49:11
next of kin to notify her that sadly her her brother has been killed and her reaction is was it Brian the neighbor?
00:49:23
So obviously there was something going on here that that others knew about because the neighbors said the same
00:49:32
thing like but from what I can gather based off of what other people in the neighborhood have said on the record to
00:49:39
reporters it sounds like Brian Hurt really sucked and that Tom Overall was really cool. I I don't want to pretend
00:49:49
to know the details of that, but it's it was interesting to me to learn that when
00:49:53
they notify the sister, her her first reaction is, "Was it Brian?" And so that that tells you and and then
00:50:02
of course Kyogre County Medical Examiner's Office confirmed that yes, it was Brian. That that
00:50:08
>> yeah, it kind of tells you everything you need to know. He he can't be tried and he can't be charged and tried
00:50:14
obviously at this point, but all signs are pointing to that that they know who did this and that there's there won't be
00:50:23
any further investigation. However, the further investigation comes is now Brian
00:50:29
Hurt is being looked at because one, he lives so close. So both him and his neighbor that he killed lived very close
00:50:36
to this Rocky River reservation. so close that the police didn't have to look very far to find the dark colored
00:50:43
SUV. And I also am very suspicious. This has not been said on the record, but Captain, I bet I bet you that neighbor
00:50:52
across the street, she probably has witnessed some kind of beef between the two. She's going to know her neighbor's
00:51:01
vehicle. She's probably telling them, "Look, I I can't say 100%, but it looked like Brian hurt the neighbor's vehicle
00:51:09
that was he was this guy was cut in his grass and he shot and killed. He laid in
00:51:14
that street. Thank God he was killed instantly and didn't suffer, but you know, he laid in that street while they
00:51:23
conducted their their investigation. Tom's family and the neighbors. I mean, this is very very tragic. But and now
00:51:30
Brian hurt. You can't make this stuff up. He is properly named, my friend, as he has an extensive history of violence.
00:51:38
>> Yeah. >> So, let's go through this guy's rap sheet here, shall we? Brian Hurt, the
00:51:43
rap sheet on him shows us 25 criminal arrests. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah, that's that's a five with a two in
00:51:53
front of it, right? >> Wow. >> More than two dozen. And and look, I'm not I know that this shouldn't mean
00:52:00
anything, but that's a nice neighborhood. It was hard for me to believe that a dude with this many this
00:52:07
lengthy of a criminal history >> live with somebody >> cuz he could have been living with
00:52:13
somebody that did well for themselves and was just trying to help out this [ __ ]
00:52:17
>> It just looked like one of those neighborhoods where people live and stay in their homes for a very long time. And
00:52:23
clearly the neighbors that were good people all knew each other >> now. So this includes aggravated
00:52:29
robbery, aggravated assault, aggravated menacing. One of the more notable offenses, he attacked an officer in
00:52:36
2010. This was at a Rocky River courtroom. This is all on you can view the video of
00:52:43
him attacking the baiff, I guess you would call, it's, you know, the the court officer, the the baiff there. And
00:52:50
from my understanding, the judge is looking at the case and and I think Brian Hurt thought he was going
00:52:56
to get released on bond and something changed with that or he or he was just wrong and this set him off. He he then
00:53:06
attacks the baoith gets 5 years in prison. So some a little more clear and concise information on
00:53:13
this guy here. So, Cleveland city leaders said Brian Hurt, the perp in the murder of Tom Overall, was problematic
00:53:21
for years. A news a a three News investigative reporter found that in 2010, Brian Hurt was convicted on
00:53:30
charges from an incident at his home in which police say he let his dog out and encouraged it to attack a census taker.
00:53:39
You know, the census takers, they come around and they ask some questions. They have a little questionnaire to fill out.
00:53:44
I think this takes place every 10 years. He he unleashes a dog telling, you know,
00:53:50
telling the dog to to attack the person. There's probably not a lot of people showing up to work going, I have to
00:53:57
collect these surveys. I'm loving my life today. And then they knock on this asshole's door. And the guy's like, hey
00:54:07
dog, sick balls. The judge gave him a suspended sentence and probation for this offense. Seems
00:54:17
reasonable. Kudos to the judge. Seems like a hey, give this guy a second chance. Two months later, police
00:54:24
arrested Brian Her in a road rage incident in West Park. According to the indictment, this is again according to
00:54:32
three News. According to the indictment, Brian Hurt followed a driver of another
00:54:38
vehicle who was with his wife and two kids, pulled alongside of that family's car and pointed a gun at them. It was
00:54:47
then, right, he's facing those charges at the Rocky River Court that police say Brian hurt became enraged that his bond
00:54:58
changed and reportedly lunged at the baiff. reportedly is a a word we don't need to put in there. It's
00:55:07
on video. You can see him charge the baiff. If you have eyeballs, you saw it. >> Typed it up.
00:55:16
>> What is exactly what is part of this though too that wasn't clear in the video that I saw is according to this
00:55:24
report when he lunged at the officer, he was trying to take the officer's gun. So
00:55:30
he had So Brian Hurt had to be tasered. I Man, I hope they tased him good, too. The the officer
00:55:39
>> wound up with a broken nose and then it was in 2011 that Brian Hurt was sentenced to 5 years in prison for that
00:55:48
attack. Here's what I see. This guy, look, some of the city leaders in Cleveland have already said this, that
00:55:54
that >> he's a whack. >> Mental health. >> Yes. Mental health needs to be a concern
00:55:59
here. Did we Did we miss something? Were there red flags that were missed? No, no, no, no. You saw all the red flags
00:56:04
and he got punished for those actions. >> I was just going to say sometimes we take this mental illness a little too
00:56:10
far. If you're a good person that's struggling with a depression or anxiety or whatever, fine. But some of these
00:56:19
people, their whole life, they were they were born with quote unquote a mental illness. Uh uh they're born with evil.
00:56:29
They're born with hatred. They're born with anger. That's something that I don't think sometimes we can fix.
00:56:37
>> Well, yeah. Clearly, this guy is one of these full-on rage angry angry dudes. I mean,
00:56:45
he was 66 years old, so maybe this was just something that was going on in the later part of his life. But in in a
00:56:54
basically a 15year time span, he sicks a dog on some poor innocent person. He pulls a gun on a family in a road rage
00:57:04
incident. He attacks a baiff at in a courtroom, goes to prison for 5 years, and then after he gets out, a handful of
00:57:13
years after, well, it would have been less than 10 years after he gets out, he shoots his neighbor who's cutting the
00:57:20
grass. He went unhinged at some point. >> Somebody after I say this is going to say, "Well, Captain, that's a dumb
00:57:26
thought." But what I wonder in this guy's life, if nothing if there's no traumatic thing, like if he didn't lose
00:57:34
a loved one or something, is it possible that he got in a car wreck or something
00:57:40
happened where he had some kind of head injury? because I I've only really seen it a couple times in person of
00:57:50
individuals that had severe head injuries and their personality shift completely
00:57:56
and some of them either become just more reckless or seeking like adrenaline rush. But some of them become
00:58:07
angry and violent because of a head injury. Oh yes, we we know all of that to be true. And
00:58:16
look, we just don't have enough time here to be sympathetic to the the murderer here today. So,
00:58:21
>> right, >> this this of course catches the headlines and then people want to know,
00:58:27
well, why did he choose to go to the park and take his life? Does that have some significance to anything else? We
00:58:36
we can clearly see he has a lengthy history of violence. He was not in prison at the time of the park bench
00:58:42
murders. I mean, he could have went inside his home and taken his own life. He could have went in his backyard and
00:58:47
did this. He could have drove anywhere and did this. He could have drove and tried to flee the scene.
00:58:52
>> Well, is law enforcement telling us what kind of gun was found when they found
00:58:57
his body? >> So, great question. What we do know here is that the gun that the gun that was
00:59:05
used to kill his neighbor and the gun that he used to take his own life with was the same. And it it is not they
00:59:13
don't need to do ballistic testing on it because the caliber is nowhere near what
00:59:18
was used in so a very small caliber. I believe 22 was used in the bench the park bench murders and this was a higher
00:59:26
caliber gun that was used. So, they don't need to do that testing now. >> Well, that's why I'm doubling down
00:59:32
because the speculation is, well, did he go to the park to kind of leave law enforcement breadcrumb? Well, if he's
00:59:40
going to really leave them a breadcrumb, you think he would leave the murder weapon that he used if he was involved
00:59:47
in the Park Bingch murders? >> Yeah. And if he wanted to tip, I think that this is more of a um a thought that
00:59:53
this was a knee-jerk reaction, like he just went to a place for some reason that is familiar to him and that maybe
01:00:00
has has some significance for some other reason. I mean, he if he wanted us to know, he could have simply left a note
01:00:08
if he was the person responsible, but that didn't happen. I see this is again it goes back to the idea that I really
01:00:15
firmly believe and and I until I'm proven otherwise I I really think that there was a direct connection between
01:00:24
the the gunman for the park bench case with one of those victims. I don't see any line that you can draw between
01:00:35
either of these perpetrators. I really think the Brian hurt situation is more of a
01:00:42
oh >> a ticking time bomb >> [ __ ] Yes, he knew he was a ticking time bomb. We've seen it time and time again.
01:00:48
And this time he he he recogn Oh my I finally finally lost it. I killed this man. I'm not going back to prison.
01:00:57
That's what this one looks like to me. Now, that's from that's from a uh from an overview, right? We we can't say and
01:01:05
we don't know for certain. And again, it's very early in the goings on here to believe that they've completely
01:01:13
dismissed that as a possibility. They being the investigators. Now, thank you for bringing up the gun because I want
01:01:21
to give a big shout out to 19 News anchor Nicole Versanski. She interviewed the current Metro Parks
01:01:30
Police Chief, Kelly Stillman. To be clear here, Kelly Stillman was not the chief at the time of the 2019
01:01:38
Parkbench murders when that took place, but has since taken over as the police chief. And I'm giving I want to give
01:01:46
Nicole a big shout out because I listened to the interview she did and conducted. I listened to it twice and
01:01:52
she asked all of the right questions at all the right times and in the perfect order. This was the question that really
01:02:00
stood out for me. And talking about guns, she asked the chief, did Brian Hurt have other guns? Right. The the one
01:02:09
that was used in this murder suicide, we know is not a match to the double homicide, but did he have other guns?
01:02:16
When you went into his home, and again, everything that I'm seeing in type and everything that I'm hearing on by
01:02:23
people's words keep saying his home. So, I I've got to take that to believe that
01:02:28
that that was his home. And I couldn't find any information to suggest that he was married, so he may have lived there
01:02:35
alone. This is a beautiful, great, quaint neighborhood. It It is smaller homes in this neighborhood. Brilliant
01:02:44
question. Did Brian Hurt have other guns? I hate this answer, Chief Stillman. I hate this answer. The answer
01:02:51
he gave is that's a Cleveland Police Department case. You'd have to ask them. [ __ ] Why didn't you ask them? Why
01:02:59
isn't your department asking them? It's not 19 news anchor Nicole's job to solve
01:03:06
your double homicide that is sitting there for 6 years. And I think this is where I share the frustration that the
01:03:16
families have here and question how hard is this case being worked. Because when
01:03:23
presented to the police chief about any questions of evidence or what is being done, the answer that we get time and
01:03:30
time again is, "Well, these things don't happen overnight." No [ __ ] We know that, Chief.
01:03:37
Guess what? The murders didn't happen yesterday. They happened six years ago. And I don't
01:03:44
want to go too far down this road because we've already recommended that people go back and listen to those other
01:03:49
episodes had they not where we go way in depth on the on the timing that all the
01:03:54
vehicles arrive into that pull out into that parking space for the Rocky River reservation where they found Carnell's
01:04:02
vehicle where they found Kate's vehicle where the guy that everybody just wants to call him the roofer was sitting and
01:04:09
and like Carnell's family says his mother and his grandmother They say it so perfectly when you hear
01:04:16
them. That man was there before the murders, during the murders, and after the murders. He was the only person that
01:04:22
that checks all three of those boxes. The only person that we can find that checks all three of those boxes. Very
01:04:30
likely the only person in existence that checks all three of those boxes. And they are very concerned with that guy.
01:04:37
And so am I. And that's what we told you in those previous two episodes. >> Yeah. A couple points. One, I think with
01:04:44
Brian killing himself in the park, to me that's more well, somebody else will find me, not if I kill myself in my own
01:04:51
house, then maybe one of my loved ones will find me. And maybe he was trying to uh save them from that experience.
01:04:59
But to the park bench murders, you know, we covered this a while ago, but I I dove back in and the speculation that
01:05:08
you hear coming from the public and coming from law enforcement was, well, Kate had this ex-boyfriend
01:05:15
and Kate also went on this date that was with some kind of weirdo >> and she was on dating apps as well.
01:05:21
>> Yeah, dudes. Stop being creeps. But on top of that, could it been racially motivated? It's possible.
01:05:31
>> Well, yeah, that's something that's come up time and time again in this case,
01:05:34
>> right? But there's a lot of people in the in the in public's eyes that go, "No, absolutely not." Well, until you
01:05:41
solve it, you can't rule out anything. And then also, like you were saying, this roofer, but when you hear these
01:05:49
updated reports, you hear from people, well, these individuals were cleared. Now, I don't think they were publicly
01:05:56
cleared by law enforcement, but 6 years, maybe you need to double back, reinter these people, double check their alibis,
01:06:07
ju double check your paperwork, maybe there's something that will jump out at you. We've seen this in other cases.
01:06:15
Double check your work. But this is where uh my questions are the same as yours. How hard is this investigation
01:06:22
being worked? You have a guy that should have been an eyewitness, should have been an ear witness that just doesn't
01:06:29
know anything sitting in a parking lot not far away from the crime scene. And and I I don't think his background shows
01:06:37
that he's a saint. >> No, he's been charged. He has a history of violence as well. He was a known gun
01:06:44
owner. And then we we personally had several people that told us, and this is hearsay because they they heard it from
01:06:52
other individuals, that he regularly would keep firearms in his vehicle. And what what was also reported directly to
01:07:01
us is that he owned the same caliber of gun that was used in the double homicide. And he was interviewed. And
01:07:10
then then when we say interviewed, that sounds like there was a lot of work done. No, he he was probably asked a few
01:07:18
basic questions and then sent along his way. And then they realize it's not a murder suicide. It's actually a double
01:07:24
homicide. Oh, we better call some people back to the scene and and talk to them again. So, look, I I I can't I won't
01:07:33
fault them for ex for every misstep that I think occurred on the day that they the bodies were found.
01:07:42
Um because I think a lot of this things are happening quickly. They're they are I think their intent was to do the very
01:07:49
best job that they could. I really think that they thought they were going to find a firearm in the water. That was
01:07:56
that didn't happen. And when that didn't happen, they realized that the the case
01:08:00
is not what they thought they were responding to. And we've said this a hundred times on this show that that is
01:08:07
that always puts the investigation at a significant disadvantage when you think you're arriving to one
01:08:16
crime and it takes you a little bit of time to figure out that it was actually something entirely different. Now, where
01:08:23
I will give the Metro Parks Police Department and the the Chief of Police, Ke Kelly Stillman, credit and kudos.
01:08:34
It's been reported that they did take the investigation to the VOC Society, which is a crimeolving club in
01:08:43
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. members of the society. So there there's like 80 people in the the this Vociety
01:08:53
and members are forensic professionals, current and former FBI profilers, homicide investigators, scientists,
01:09:00
psychologists, prosecutors, and coroners whose expert experience and expertise provide or hopefully provide new
01:09:08
insights for the investigations that have gone cold. And Chief Stillman is on record saying that we took it to the V-D
01:09:16
society and they said that their findings were that we did everything we could. We've done everything we could
01:09:23
and that there's nothing that they would have done differently. That's great. If
01:09:28
that if that's something you want to hang your hat on, Chief Stillman, go for it. But I also have an understanding of
01:09:35
how the VOC society works. I think you should get much credit for taking it to them. It's some of the most brilliant
01:09:42
minds in this country for solving homicides, especially cold cases. But your outfit has been working in this
01:09:51
case for 6 years. When you take it to the Vociety, it is usually reviewed for an afternoon. That's about the best they
01:09:59
can do because they are hearing cases from all over the country. If that is your rebuttal to, well, no, we worked it
01:10:07
correctly. I I don't I don't know that that that doesn't make me feel any better. I still think that there have
01:10:12
been things that that could be done, things that should be done in this case. And again, there there are things we
01:10:19
brought up in the first episode in 2023 and then there are a lot of things that we brought up in our more recent
01:10:25
coverage in Feb in February with episodes 820 and 8:21. >> Right. But when you go to this crime
01:10:31
scene, view it as the worst possibility, not just, well, this was a murder suicide. Because if you take that
01:10:38
witness that could have been an eyewitness, could have been an ear witness, the roofer, and you just say,
01:10:42
"Hey, we're going to we're going to take you down for questioning." Now, the questioning might not matter. Maybe you
01:10:47
get a little bit of information from him, but you keep saying, "I didn't see anything. I didn't see anything. But
01:10:52
what do we know? The victims were killed by gun. So, is there a test that we can
01:10:57
do to to figure out if this roofer fired a gun that day?" Yes, there's a test that we could do. So does administer
01:11:05
>> there's actually two there's actually two tests that you could do. One the gunshot residue test the gunpowder
01:11:12
residue test obviously. The other test you could do is hey before you leave do you mind if we search your truck
01:11:20
>> right? >> You didn't see anything. You didn't hear anything. Uh this might be a murder
01:11:24
suicide but we're just asking this of everybody that parked here. >> Right. >> You mind if we search your truck? Oh,
01:11:30
and by the way, if you want to take a polygraph test, that's fine, too. There again, to to to stand on this this hill
01:11:39
of we did everything. >> You could have found that murder weapon in that dude's truck,
01:11:43
>> right? Or in his pocket. Is that a 22 in your pocket or you just happy to see me?
01:11:50
>> He wasn't happy to see him, I'll tell you that. >> Well, like the family says, somebody
01:11:55
knows something. Somebody saw something. You can find a seeking information poster available on fbi.gov
01:12:05
for Cardell Sledge and Catherine Brown who were the murder victims in Fairview Park, Ohio, June 4th, 2019.
01:12:16
As said, there is a reward available for an that leads to an arrest and conviction in this case. Anyone with any
01:12:26
information regarding these murders is asked to call the FBI's Cleveland Field Office at 216
01:12:34
622 6842 or you can call Crimestoppers of Kyhoga County at 2162527463 and tips can be submitted at
01:12:49
tips.fbi.gov. I do want to to really emphasize something here though. If you do not
01:12:58
feel that you need to remain anonymous when giving your information or your tip, I'm suggesting that you call the
01:13:05
FBI's Cleveland field office at 2166226842. [Music] Want to thank everybody for joining us
01:13:25
here in the garage each and every week. Thank you to your mother. Thank you to your brother. If you want to support
01:13:31
True Crime Garage, make sure you subscribe to the show. If you need more True Crime Garage, make sure you
01:13:37
subscribe on Patreon or Apple Podcast app to Off the Record. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
01:13:45
beautiful listeners? >> We do. And something we never really say on the show and we probably should say
01:13:49
it from time to time or at least mention it from time to time. So I will do so here. If you love the show and any of
01:13:56
our sponsors that you hear are of interest to you, use the code, the promo codes that we provide, or if you go to
01:14:04
their websites and you make a purchase or you sign up for anything and they ask you where you you heard about their
01:14:10
product or their services, their company, please let them know that you heard it from the garage guys, True
01:14:15
Crime Garage. It it would mean a lot to us. It really helps the show out. And we
01:14:19
want to thank all of our listeners for the longtime listeners who have stuck with us through all of the years and
01:14:26
been chilling with us in the garage for year after year, but also the new listeners that are getting some garage
01:14:32
goodness maybe for the first time or or just this year. >> You got to love the old garage listeners
01:14:37
cuz they got that garage musk. >> The centennials. So for the recommended reading for this week, I feel like we
01:14:45
are going all the way back to the beginning here with this one. This week, we are recommending Amy, my search for
01:14:51
her killer. Bay Village, right up there near Rocky River, Ohio, is where this all took place. 10-year-old Amy
01:14:59
Mahalavik was abducted after being lured to a local shopping plaza by a mysterious male caller who called her
01:15:07
home. Thousands of volunteers, police officers, and FBI agents searched for the girl who was tragically found dead a
01:15:15
few months later. for her killer has never been found. Amy, my search for her killer is by a longtime friend of the
01:15:22
show and truly a great writer of both true crime and science fiction. His name is James Rener. Go to our website and
01:15:30
check out the recommended page for that great title. Other great books, docue series, documentaries, and podcast
01:15:37
recommendations are all there for you at true crimegar.com. And until next week,
01:15:43
be good, be kind, and don't litter. [Music] We can't gatekeep this any longer. The
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