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[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing thank
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you for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that would like to point out that if Hannibal
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Lector could run a 4-3 40 he would have been drafted by the Oakland Raiders and they would just say that he had an
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eating disorder and that man is the captain and it prolly complain about the fit of his helmet is good to be seen as
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good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] this week we are drinking cheer team ale
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Madison Wisconsin next we have Danny and Springtown Texas and captain this is how
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far behind we are on the shout out line right Danny wants us to cover the missing Fort Worth trio which of course
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we did some point after he donated to the beer front of course so thank you to Danny that is a fascinating case and he
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that is enough of the beers yes all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] we have seven bodies in this investigation a huge investigation going
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on in a lot of media coverage now law enforcement they were worried that the discovery of the bodies and the media
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coverage that followed could invoke an evil reaction from our undetected serial killer where he might go on a mass
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murdering spree ultimately seeking more victims more chaos and panic in a suicide-by-cop ending and we have these
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extensive profiles but really we don't have a ton of evidence the biggest evidence that we probably have in this
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whole scenario is the bullets that they left behind from the target practice yeah the cuts and stab wounds are not
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extremely valuable from a clue standpoint you know we've discussed this before it's just difficult matching
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these up to a knife or another sharp object when you have nothing to compare them to
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now the bindings are of good value though anything that was used to bind the victims in some of these capes cases
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we know that they used rope and electrical tape that sort of thing so yes captain you're exactly right the the
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most valuable clues that they're going to have are the bullets the shell casings the cartridge containers as well
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as these ropes and electrical tape that was used on the victims yeah I would assume that it would be hard but not
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impossible to take these shell casings and figure out where possibly they bought these from or what what rough
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location so in late 1993 the task force err was formed they were to spearhead this serial killer investigation the
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task force was made up of more than 20 detectives and analysts on top of this a large reward was offered to the public
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for information on what the press were calling at the time the bilang low serial killings the profiles were made
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as we discussed and they were made public the task force was established and now they're begging the public for
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help so where does that get you it gets you a ton of info to sift through which is extremely difficult just to organize
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and catalog everything that's coming in the task force one of their first jobs is to simply organize all of this
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information and then to find a constructive way to apply it to the investigation and as for the
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investigation hell just with 20 different task force members you have a lot of moving pieces and so some sort of
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checks and balances is required you need to know for sure that so-and-so did speak to this suspect or this witness
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and that the information was collected and appropriately catalogued because there is just so much of it some of the
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focus is really going to be the gun angle right captain we know that we have bullets that were found at the scene we
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know that we have two different calibers we're looking through gun licenses that's what police wanted to do they're
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gonna look through gun licenses to try to provide some leads in the way of who is their guy or who is their killers
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I've seen some numbers in this case and some were as big as the investigators may have been talking or seeking to talk
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to over two thousands per two thousand persons just in relation to the gun angle but with all of their hard work
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effort and analysis they really were looking at over 200 possible good suspects not just people that have a gun
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license right eventually taking that 200 possible suspects and breaking that down
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to about 30 some persons of interest without going through all 30 or so of them now remember guns may
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be how they're able to find the killer or killers so they amongst other strategies are going around to gun clubs
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and interviewing members at these gun clubs at one such club they were interviewing members and these members
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told investigators to talk to a man named Alex MLAT so Alex he had a strange story to tell he sat down and spoke with
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these investigators he said that one night in April of 1992 now mind you this is around the disappearance of two of
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our victims yeah he says that he and a friend were driving home that night from the Gun Club and as they neared a
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service road to the bilang Lowe State Forest they passed two vehicles one I believe was a car and the other was a
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4x4 in this scenario he tells the investigators that he saw a woman a single woman in each one of those
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vehicles right and also in the vehicle with them were a group of men the women he says were bound they were I don't I
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take that back I don't know that he said that they were bound I know he said that
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they were gagged but his description of this scenario is that the women likely they looked to have been abducted there
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with these men they don't want to be in the car and he goes on to give very good
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detailed information regarding the men and what they look like as well he's unable to give any plate numbers
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regarding these vehicles police of course are gonna find this extremely interesting for any number of reasons
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really what they're going to do is they locate the man that he says he was traveling with that night they speak
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with him the man verifies some portions of this story basically that yes I was with Alex at night yes we went to the
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gun club we took that route home and I believe that yeah I did see two vehicles that night he says nothing about the
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women being in the vehicles he says nothing about the men being in the vehicles nor does he give any type
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of description of anybody or anything that's going on never mind that if if the gagging part didn't come up like I
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mean if you're driving home with your buddy and you see some girls quote-unquote gagged you think that
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would come up in conversation right and if it comes up in conversation it's not something that you're going to forget
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especially if you can remember being at the gun club that day and taking that route home that night so that's that's
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what is is really a truly a weird scenario because we have two victims that went missing right around that time
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we have Alex mullet who's saying that he saw two females in these vehicles that look like they were abducted yet here's
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the other thing - until police came looking for him he never bothered to share this information with anybody he
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never took it to police he never said hey I saw something strange going on or you know he didn't do this when he
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didn't do it that night so he didn't seem to be concerned of these two women he didn't do it when the bodies were
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found and as you just pointed out he very likely didn't even mention it to the man sitting in the vehicle with him
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that night right because apparently given their statements they didn't see the same things right so it seems like
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it's a half-truth story yeah he may have in fact have seen two vehicles there that night but is he making up what he
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saw inside of those vehicles and that's a sick thing for somebody to make up yeah well you have to wonder one why
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would he be making it up or two if in fact that is what he saw why didn't he tell anybody why did he choose not to
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tell anybody then there's another person police police are talking about this is one of
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their persons of interest and this comes from a tipster that called in regarding a man named Richard
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Millette Richard told a co-worker and this is according to the co-worker right this is alleged what he told them
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Richard said in regards to the backpack murders that there is a German couple out there that they haven't found all of
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bodies yet this is before the German couple was in fact found mm-hmm he tells someone else I know who killed
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the German couple other odd things and comments that he was saying he told someone how easy it would be to abduct
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someone out in the area of the bilang low serial killings he told someone that stabbing a woman or cutting a woman was
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just forgive me captain I've seen this reported several different ways that he said that it it was like cutting a loaf
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of bread and then one of the other sources say that he said cutting a woman was like cutting a banana so I'm not
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sure which one he effect used or allegedly said but still some very odd strange statements coming from this man
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here I do want to point out a few things about what it is the alleged that he had
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said right the first there is a German couple out there they haven't found all the bodies yet this may seem strange
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given just that one statement that and even in fact wouldn't you apply it with all these others that we went through
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but just that short little statement does seem strange but we also need to keep in mind as we reported there were
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reports out there in June that there was a missing German couple so that that's not like it was some top-secret
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information that was public information to anybody that read those papers hey there there's there's a German couple
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that is believed to be missing since regarding that newspaper article had been over six months by that point and
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then on top of that when they found the first two victims when they found the first two bodies what was the statement
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given by law enforcement at the time we're gonna find more bodies we expect to find more body so really when you
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dissect his statement it's actually nothing that he could do anybody couldn't have come up with right right
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and again this is big news and they don't want you no hitchhikers or tourists going missing so is it just one
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of those things where you go okay they're gonna find more bodies well what about that missing couple that's still
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missing I mean it's it's not that far of a stretch to get get to their the other
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thing too is is pointing out how easy he believed it would be to abduct somebody
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out in that area that specific area I don't find that to be too incredibly of an odd statement well here's here's
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what's odd we have two individuals with the same last name both seem like somewhat telling like half-truths right
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so what's that all about well I think the most the strangest statement by Richard would be the one of I know who
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killed the German couple yes the thing I would like to backtrack on which I couldn't find through all the digging it
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just wasn't there if anybody finds this or knows this information please put it on the blog but one thing I was very
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curious about with the statement of I know who killed the German couple was he saying this before their bodies were
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found right right cuz I mean of course it you could see how he would believe that they were were killed but but to
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make a statement like that before the bodies were in fact found would be a big huge red flag and as you said another
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red flag is that you have two individuals who share the same last name who in fact are brothers uh-huh aha it
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goes back to that profiling right right and that's the thing here we're going to
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start to see some things regarding this profile and I think that you know not only just the profile itself but once
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they're collecting the task force is collecting all this information that's coming in possible leads possible
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evidence clues names that are coming up time and time again throughout the course of their investigation you you
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really want to go when okay when we need to talk to two thousand people or maybe
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more than two thousand people let's create a list of people and go how many boxes do does each individual
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potentially check off right because we have to prioritize who we're going to speak with we can't just have a pool of
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suspects being two thousand people and then they whittle it down to what did we say two hundred and then two thirty
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right but now on this list of 30 it appears that we have two men who are in fact brothers and we do
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have them fitting some portions of the profile itself you know just a simple statement of somebody saying you know
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what it would be easy to abduct people out in that area that to me doesn't does not set off any alarm bells as far as
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suspecting this person of being an abductor or tiller what it points out to me immediately is this person obviously
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feels that he has a strong connection to that area to that that he's familiar and
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he has knowledge about that area well that's one thing that was in the profile to be looking for we also have a
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situation where the other man Richard Mallette he has a criminal record also in the profile one of the things on his
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record involves a gun charge again as you pointed out better the profile now there was also another milette there
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is involved in this whole portion of the investigation Ivan milette all three of
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them are brothers they're brothers from a very large family I think that there were 10 brothers total and four sisters
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now 14 siblings total yeah so we're talking a huge family here now Ivan was in fact familiar to the task force this
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is because he was called in on the tip hotline now the caller thought that he fits some aspects of the profile plus
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the caller said that he drove a four-wheel drive and owned some guns right known to shoot guns has a
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four-wheeler also lives in a rural area yeah and I'll tell you what even more interesting than all of that this next
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stuff again comes from the Sydney Morning Herald and the Herald really covered this case covered the story from
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top to bottom covering it for years there is an article by Stephen Warnock where we have a former Senior Constable
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Paul Gordon now anybody familiar with this case there there's some alarm bells that are
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going to go off because this Paul Gordon is a complicated character in this story
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and we can get into that a little more but what's important here is some things that we know that did in fact happen we
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just don't know exactly how they happen because they reported they were reported
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to the newspaper in a strange way right so according to one version of the story
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Paul Gordon was working on a theory that Liverpool I guess this is an exit that is along the way from Sydney to
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Melbourne via the Hume Highway he or somebody else came up with the theory that there are hundreds of Hitchhiker's
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thumbing lifts south in this area and that maybe this is where the killer or killers were getting their victims from
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using this theory they decide to go back and they are checking through police files for past crimes against
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hitchhikers in that area what they find is a case from April of 1971 right so almost two decades before
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our victims start destroying right in this case the offender or alleged offender was a man named Ivan Malec he
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was accused of assault rape and threatening to kill two female hitchhikers in April of 1971 so we have
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the hitchhiker's we have a pair of them mm-hmm and we have a similar type crime although it does not end in murder but
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the reason why this crime does not end in murder the the two hitchhikers they got away from this man right and this is
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basically because they they tricked him and they had to escape him he didn't he didn't let them go
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nothing like that they had to escape and after reviewing the case personally captain I believe he very very likely
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would have killed both of them he in fact according to the two victims did say at one point his intention was to do
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just that mallette beat the charges though and if you want we can we can get into
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that it's a little it's a bit of a difficult story and it's it's a bit of a long one but in the end his his lawyer
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pulled some tricky [ __ ] and got him out of those charges okay I mean tricky [ __ ] well the lawyer was
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able to prove that the two women that he picked up were in fact lesbians okay and
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the lawyer was so home well all right yeah but okay here's the problem with that it's 1971-1972
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when he points this out this confuses the jury back then right and you see what I mean and it's been uphill battle
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for anybody that has come forward with any allegations of sexual assault or rape right and so back then it was like
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big time yeah you know yeah it's pathetic but yeah keep going well I will say I do want to say this real quick to
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the the attorney that was representing Ivan Malay at the time he is I believe he's deceased now mm-hmm
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he was a homosexual man so in in a sense and I think well I shouldn't say I think
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I know because interviews late in his life he says that he really regretted using that tactic but that's the tact
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that says he chose yeah right he chose to use that strategy it was shameful but it worked at the time and as that that
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is the problem with that profession because it's like you it's very important to have good defense attorneys
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but at the same time it's and you don't want to assume that they're bad individuals because they help these
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awful people get out of crimes well mallette it may have just been and I mean Ivan he's just super lucky right
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because he was also facing charges and these were hefty charges of armed robbery in fact these were robberies
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that he committed with one of his other brothers yeah then we've already named what ended up happening in that
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situation is those charges I believe they were dropped because of the way that they were investigated there was
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rumors of misconduct on the pot on the part of the police and the investigators in those crimes mhm and then we had this
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situation where IVA Mallette picks up these two female hitchhikers and comes pretty close to killing them [ __ ] gets
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away with it in court yeah which is crazy to me because it's you have two eyewitnesses
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you know I mean like it's not just he said she said it's he said she said she said so yeah like you said a little bit
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of evil luck but and then in the end in the 90s what's going to really stand out
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to the task force is that even though he may have got away with that crime back in the 70s this very much fits it's very
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similar to what was going on in the backpacker murders well right like if we look at the profile we have two victims
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we have you know sexual intent I think we could say I agree or some type of gratification from it right and then on
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top of that you have these armed robberies that were committed with him and his brother and that fits the
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profile you know at least a couple times with them thinking that these there could be two attackers and then being
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related so the maligne they are now pretty much the prime target of this investigation
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and if you really want to try to put it in order I think we're looking at a situation where we have Ivan at the very
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top of that list followed by his brother Richard mm-hmm and Ivan this looks like
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I mean he looks evil well and the other thing that's going to put Ivan and Richard above some of the other brothers
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in this even Alex who we've already named those two were known to have been working in the area at the time of the
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disappearances so that puts them that at a much higher probability so they were looking into these men from this family
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and the more that they looked the more that Ivan started to look better and better and fit being their possible
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unsub so this becomes even more clear when police get a phone call from the United Kingdom it's Paul onions on
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November 13 1993 Paul called the authorities in the backpacker murders case he saw the case on the news and he
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immediately thought of the time when he was attacked way back in 1990 police never made the connection between Paul's
00:26:03
case and the seven unsolved murders remember when Paul reported this from the outside looking in you may have
00:26:11
thought you were just dealing with an armed robbery so now we have a victim coming forward and saying I believe what
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happened to me is connected to your unsolved murders eventually they get Paul out to the to Australia and they
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want to talk with him face to face they want to show him some materials and they
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want to know what he knows of his attack eventually he positively identifies Ivan
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milette as the man who was calling himself Bill who offered him a ride and tried to take his life firing the gun at
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him as he was running from him Joanne berry the woman who was brave enough to stop her van and allow a complete
00:26:59
stranger to get inside the vehicle when others wouldn't even stop to help poor Paul she was able to positively identify
00:27:08
Ivan milette as the man that she said she saw that day with the gun [Music] today's show is sponsored by green light
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that's better help calm slash garage all right Cheers beats cheers Cheers cheers Campton law
00:29:58
enforcement they were locking in on this Ivan Mallette they surveilled Ivan for weeks they tapped his phone and police
00:30:08
located a vehicle that he once owned this is the four-wheel drive vehicle that Paul Onion's says that this man
00:30:17
named Bill quote-unquote bill was driving when he picked them up and attacked him so they found this new
00:30:23
owner they confirmed that it was in fact a vehicle that was purchased from Ivan still inside the vehicle they located a
00:30:33
22 caliber bullet under the driver's seat it matched bullets that were found at the murder scenes
00:30:43
da-ding so this is some this is some big info here there's some difficulty with the investigation because of another
00:30:51
brother and this brother's name is in fact bill right so what becomes difficult with this case is Ivan for
00:31:01
whatever reason was registering vehicles in his brother's name for a good portion
00:31:09
of his life the other thing - why is he doing that I don't know if this was with
00:31:16
his brother's permission or if he was just doing this on his own right but surely if you are up to no good it is an
00:31:25
advantage for you to be able to drive vehicles but not have them necessarily in your name right so with all this
00:31:35
information and a lot of it being information coming from Paul onions it sounds like police are ready to make
00:31:44
an arrest and they're going to arrest Ivan malette but remember all along they anticipated
00:31:52
that their killer should they be on to the right guy if the heat got cranked up too high for his
00:31:58
liking if an arrest was expected he very likely would want to do it on his own terms and go out in a blaze of glory
00:32:07
well police knew how dangerous whoever this man was they knew that who they were looking for is probably a weapons
00:32:17
enthusiast so they knew Zico yes yeah this is a psycho so they knew what to expect if they in fact had their right
00:32:27
guy so when they go to make the arrest on Ivan milette that they're going to be a little nervous in this situation but
00:32:35
they're also going to bring everything that you got right you bring the kitchen sink Ivan's house was surrounded by
00:32:42
about 50 armed officers most of them heavily armed officers phone calls were placed to the home the general strategy
00:32:52
here is captain you want to try to get your guy to come outside you really want to avoid going in after him so on these
00:33:02
phone calls they're trying to explain to him why they want to talk to him why he
00:33:07
is being arrested that day and in a good strategy here for many reasons they basically tell him look you're suspected
00:33:16
in an armed robbery we need to talk to you about that and we have a warrant for your arrest in regards to that that case
00:33:25
notice that they are conveniently avoiding the seven unsolved murders when talking to Ivan right Ivan didn't want
00:33:34
to come outside he he did this kind of weird game of like cat and mouse where at first he
00:33:41
kind of said yeah I'll be out just give me a few minutes and then a lot of time would go by and he still not come out
00:33:49
this of course making the police more nervous and more nervous as it goes along they would call him back he
00:33:55
would try the same tactic I'm coming out but I don't understand why you're here to talk to me I've not done anything
00:34:01
wrong now he's playing the innocence card I'm right this goes back and forth for a while until he he does eventually
00:34:08
end up coming outside right so on May 22nd 1994 Ivan mullet is arrested correct and we talked about the former
00:34:19
constable earlier who gave the story to steve Warnock and a story to The Sydney Morning Herald mm-hmm
00:34:30
this is constable Paul Gordon this is where Paul Gordon's story gets tricky and I've tried to sift through this and
00:34:40
I can't really find out that the real details here but what we do know is that Paul Gordon at some point spoke to the
00:34:48
newspaper okay and in this time that he's talking to him initially it seems like he not only takes credit for the
00:34:58
theory brought forward about the hitchhiker's and the location but he also takes credit for finding the the
00:35:05
previous case from 1971 that names Ivan milette as the suspect and he tells this
00:35:12
to the newspaper so he presents a story in the light where it's almost like I'm the guy that cracked the case and in a
00:35:21
lot of tellings of this story in this case it seems more so that maybe just as much as that scenario but it also seems
00:35:29
like the Paul Onion's the former victim the survivor that came forward was just as much that cracked this case right and
00:35:36
so where Paul Gordon gets in trouble that the former constable where he gets in trouble there was an a an agreement
00:35:45
amongst the task force and a and amongst the members that were the closest involved in this investigation and in
00:35:53
the arrest of Ivan mallette that they were not to talk to the newspapers Paul Gordon did so Paul Gordon was eventually
00:36:03
let go from that task force that's why it gets difficult to sift through his word
00:36:09
and know what to believe in know not what to believe right right because we don't know if he was let go because he
00:36:16
talked to the paper or if he lied being the guy that quote-unquote cracked the case but that was something that went
00:36:24
down now because Paul Gordon spoke to the newspapers now a lot of their stuff is starting to become public that's why
00:36:31
they didn't want anybody talking to the newspapers that were involved in the task force I may say harder to get a
00:36:36
conviction yeah and it also makes it tougher for the investigators to continue down the roads that they've
00:36:43
already traveled down they've already started down these roads on investigating Ivan Milat for seven
00:36:50
unsolved murders they've only arrested him for the armed robbery charge well now it shows their hand that this is
00:36:58
what we actually want him for this is what we actually think he's suspected of right and the fact that they're still
00:37:05
not for sure if it's if if it's just Ivan that's responsible or is it Ivan and one of his brothers that they've
00:37:12
already talked to and so you don't want to show all your hand because you don't want Ivan to be protecting one of his
00:37:19
brothers and you then you have another psychopath that's out on the loose well and you want to make sure that you have
00:37:25
your right guy and you want to make sure that you are building your case as such
00:37:30
but now with their cards kind of shown with their cards out there this is when the the lead member of the task force
00:37:38
says we were kind of forced at this point to actually start charging him with these unsolved murders now at this
00:37:47
same time the whole thing that's really going down and actually they've been working their way through this
00:37:52
there were searches obviously of Ivan's home and of many of his family members homes as well and they were very smart
00:38:02
they did these searches basically all at the same time so as you pointed out we can't have the different Mele members
00:38:11
warning each other of what's going on if in fact more are involved yeah so now that they have Ivan and their sites
00:38:18
they're going to have to search their property they live just outside the mm-hmm yeah and as said they're going to
00:38:26
search some of his family members homes about the same time right well they find some interesting things
00:38:32
in Ivan's home most importantly they find a 22 rifle mm-hmm they find parts to another 22 rifle they find a pistol
00:38:44
and they find one of those large bowie knives now he he has said time and time again to the investigators that he
00:38:54
didn't own any weapons and of course they immediately find weapons inside his home they also recovered a trove of
00:39:02
items believed to belong to the killed hitchhikers these items included clothing tents sleeping bags backpacks
00:39:11
cooking and camping equipment and cameras this is a lot of stuff and some of this stuff they can't 100% say belong
00:39:22
to a victim right but they can say I believe it was with one of the it was with some of the camping equipment yeah
00:39:33
they found was yeah no but what I mean by this is there there was one of these items you couldn't purchase it in in
00:39:41
Australia right you had to purchase that from where one of the victims was from so the the probability that he would own
00:39:49
something like this highly unlikely right and then on top of that we have scenarios where there are items that do
00:39:57
seem to in fact belong to the victims where you can make a direct connection where there's more proof of such like
00:40:06
the initials being stitched into one of the items right and so this is not looking good for Ivan so they searched
00:40:15
his mother's home as well and at least three of his brothers homes as well so this would be Alex Richard and Bill I
00:40:26
believe his father was dead his father had passed away wait you know they would have searched at least four of the
00:40:34
brothers because Walter his home was searched as well his sister Ivan's sister is a bit tricky for me
00:40:40
because look so that not only is this a big family with a lot of brothers and a lot of moving pieces but at one time
00:40:49
throughout their adult lives they were all a lot of them were moving back and forth in and out of Mom's home and so
00:40:56
some of them lived together for a while under her roof and I believe that maybe even Ivan and his sister shared a home
00:41:03
together at one time what the the big problem is with this is that not only do they find these these damning items
00:41:14
inside Ivan's home they start finding other items that belong to these victims in the homes of his relatives as well
00:41:22
and again this is things like clothing tents backpacks cookware things of that nature now some of these brothers homes
00:41:32
they found guns lots of ammo and marijuana so at the very least those brothers can be arrested and charged
00:41:40
with if they if they had illegal guns we know that the drugs were illegal there were charges that were brought
00:41:46
forth on that nature now yeah this family was known to one owned a bunch of guns but to be avid shooters you know
00:41:54
they're like I said they lived out out of the city and this is a time where you don't have internet and cable and things
00:42:00
like this so they were avid you don't gun shooters well and a lot of the brothers had they were rowdy let's say
00:42:09
right a lot of them had criminal records oh there's ten of them I mean if you grow up in a family just with one other
00:42:17
sibling you're going to tend to get in some arguments or fights or you know little tussles be especially if it's you
00:42:26
know two boys because y'all go girl there's or commit armed robbery together like they did yeah but what I'm saying
00:42:33
is there's there's ten of them so you just got this testosterone going and you know it wasn't rumored I think it's
00:42:39
pretty factual that these kids were beat at least the boys were beat up pretty bad by their father
00:42:48
consistently very abusive household so when you have that going and that probably stems from anger and stems from
00:42:58
a lack of resources and lack of money and also you have 14 kids that you're trying to feed we want to talk about
00:43:05
stresses you know when when you get beat by your father you might then try to take that out on your brother well
00:43:14
regardless of all these items that they find throughout the different households
00:43:19
when it this thing comes to trial Ivan's going to be the only one facing trial and he's now being charged with the
00:43:28
seven murders as well as the crimes against Paul onions Ivan to his credit during the whole time that he's being
00:43:37
investigated during the whole time of his interrogations and the questioning and the interviewing right and even the
00:43:43
trial itself he's always stuck to his guns he has regardless of what he's been accused of
00:43:49
he's maintained his innocence throughout now at trial not only did he maintained
00:43:55
his innocence he in fact pointed the finger at a couple of his brothers this would be Walter and Richard and his
00:44:05
defense that was put forward basically was stating that the crimes were not committed committed by Ivan they were
00:44:13
either committed by one or both Richard and Walter right the interesting thing here too though is the crown okay so
00:44:22
basically the the prosecutors and whatnot they are saying during the course of this trial we do not have to
00:44:29
prove whether Ivan acted alone or not right we just are trying to prove that he was involved that he did it and they
00:44:39
said that the evidence they actually pointed this out which which is weird to me but at one point they even said
00:44:48
something to the fact that the the evidence somewhat strongly suggested that he may not have acted alone but
00:44:54
they were so sure that he was in fact involved he is regardless of who else could have been in
00:45:02
ivan was responsible for the crimes we are charging him with and this time they're gonna get a guilty verdict yeah
00:45:09
I mean it was a difficult trial for all the reasons that we just pointed out but
00:45:14
it was in fact July 27 1996 a jury found Ivan Mallette guilty of seven unsolved backpacker murders he received seven
00:45:24
life sentences for this without the possibility of parole but our story doesn't end there
00:45:30
does it captain we got we got some more stuff to get through because on his first day to the Maitland Jail where he
00:45:40
was going to be housed Ivan was beat up by another inmate so there is your housewarming gift for you mr. Ivan
00:45:48
welcome to prison yeah you get get your ass kicked on day one you get [ __ ] up a year later Ivan and another inmate
00:45:57
George subha they work together in an attempt to escape from prison however they were caught in this
00:46:06
attempted escape plan and the next day they find George dead in his cell now they move Ivan to another prison to a
00:46:16
maximum-security prison at another location there are some more prison antics here
00:46:23
Ivan swallowed razor blades and staples in a metal chain no on one day swallows some made the blade yeah and then in
00:46:33
2009 he cut off his little finger with a plastic knife on purpose yeah yeah so this this is a just kind of a real
00:46:43
dumbass plan here but so he he gets this this is actually considered a privilege
00:46:49
at the prison where he was housed mm-hmm if you were under good behavior for X amount of period at some point you are
00:46:57
allowed to receive a a plastic knife like what you would get at a picnic right a plastic knife too to use while
00:47:06
eating your meals yeah he had received this privilege and once he did so he decides to take a plastic knife and
00:47:13
attempts to cut off his little finger to which he was successful but his goal was to mail to put the finger in the
00:47:21
mail put it in an envelope hand it off to a guard and ask them to mail it well as the newspaper put it cutting off a
00:47:30
finger is quite painful so once he got to that part of the plan where the finger is now off he had trouble putting
00:47:38
it in the envelope and getting it to the guard basically his plan went sideways real quick because he didn't account for
00:47:46
how much pain he would be in this he was transferred to he's a psycho he was transferred to a hospital because of
00:47:56
this but they could not reattach the finger so it is no more he has on several occasions attempted
00:48:06
hunger strikes to get things that he wants to get his way the most famous of these hunger strikes lasted nine days
00:48:14
this was because he wanted a Playstation in his cell the hunger strike ended and
00:48:21
I'm very happy to report that little Ivan did not get his PlayStation oh so sad one key thing with this case has
00:48:31
always been are there more victims yeah and if there are how many more well are there more victims I mean because like
00:48:40
you said he had the crimes a decade earlier that he didn't he he didn't get it he got acquitted for mm-hmm see that
00:48:49
just makes you wonder how many missing people are there and how many missing people have not been reported missing
00:48:56
because they were foreigners well and we're also talking about from from the time that he abducted those two women
00:49:02
beat the charges and then to the time that he's finally arrested we have two decades that went by right two decades
00:49:10
that went by and the murders that he's convicted of they actually happened in just the years leading up to his capture
00:49:16
right so how long was he active for and if in fact he was going to kill those victims back in 1971 was that his
00:49:27
intention all along if he was active entire time I mean we know he's shot at Paul onions so it appears that that
00:49:34
murder was his intent there or at the very least was his reaction to Paul trying to flee him now we know that Ivan
00:49:42
was questioned back in 2004 this regarding the disappearance of two nurses back in 1980 he was working in
00:49:50
the area at the time then two years later in 2006 ivan was named by police as the main suspect in a double homicide
00:49:58
in all it looks like there may have been about 10 more cases that they you know they they liked him for it they think
00:50:08
that he's a good suspect in these 10 other cases and one of these cases dates all the way back to 1971 but we don't
00:50:17
think he's going to confess to these yeah I don't know I mean he's never he's never been one to confess he's always
00:50:25
maintained his innocence throughout even all this time in prison possible deathbed confession yeah and the thing
00:50:34
here though too is yeah I really wonder about a lot of these other cases because
00:50:40
it would point out to me a couple of things either he wasn't taking trophies from the earlier victims or he discarded
00:50:50
of those trophies at some point it's just very difficult because I think he's probably good for some more I don't
00:50:58
think he's good for all 10 or 12 of these depending on what list you look at well we both agree that he's responsible
00:51:04
for the attacks on the the the lesbian couple oh yeah right yeah we agree on that yeah I'm actually
00:51:13
really shocked that even whatever you know regardless of the strategy I'm shocked that any strategy worked in that
00:51:19
case I'm reviewing it but I think you said it best though I think it was because it was so you know so many years
00:51:27
ago that's why this that malarkey worked but that being a you know almost cop for
00:51:36
that and then the armed robbery that could have been enough to possibly scare this psycho away for
00:51:43
so like you said do you like him forever all these crimes I don't know I think he
00:51:50
would have been taking more items from the victims like you were saying mmhmm yeah I I wonder in some of these cases
00:51:58
I've seen with two of them that I've reviewed out of that list those two almost feel to me like there is no real
00:52:07
connection and look I get it there is no real connection between Ivan and the ones that he is convicted of but in the
00:52:17
others there seems to be more of a scenario where he looks good for those he looks there is some connection he was
00:52:24
in the area at the time he may have been active at the time so on and so forth a couple of them you look like you
00:52:30
wonder if they're just starting hey well let's take a shot at it it's like throwing a dart at the board and hoping
00:52:36
that you close a case off of off of little to nothing right so in 2012 his nephew
00:52:48
Matthew mullet was convicted in court of murder because in 2010 he attacked a boy
00:52:57
named David Archelon II so this poor kid David was struck over the head with a battle axe it was a double bladed battle
00:53:09
axe and get this this attack took place in the Blanco State Forest the same place where Ivan Mallette buried seven
00:53:19
victims in the 90s so David was I don't know if you call him a friend but they knew each other Matthew and David knew
00:53:29
each other and another guy Cohen Klein was friends with Matthew mullet as well the - 19 year olds Matthew and Cohen
00:53:38
they lured 17 year old David this was on his birthday to the State Forest they got him to go along with them because
00:53:47
they were promising him hey it's your birthday we're gonna party at the State Forest we got booze we got pot really
00:53:54
the whole thing was a setup because once they get there at some point Matthew starts chasing
00:53:59
David around a car with the axe now the super gross and disgusting thing in this
00:54:07
case is the Cohen the Cohen Klein the other person there Matthew's friend brain as Matthew is attacking David
00:54:18
Cohen he recorded the whole thing on the audio anyway on his mobile phone and both of these guys were convicted
00:54:29
milette got 43 years and then we have Klein got 30 years I'm sorry might have been 32 my notes
00:54:39
are a little difficult here but in the Klein case he has a minimum sentence of 22 years that he's going to face for
00:54:47
that and the saddest part of it is this murder took about two minutes to commit the audio recording it recorded the full
00:54:57
two minutes and the I mean the judges heard it and and some of the people at trial heard portions of this audio and
00:55:06
it was very clear that this young man this boy David was he was basically tortured and suffered very badly the
00:55:15
last two minutes of his life there's the strangest thing about this Matthew milette character the the the nephew
00:55:24
who's now in prison and I don't know if there's a way to change this or the the exact stipulations of his sentencing
00:55:33
this Matthew milette guy should never be allowed out of prison yeah it's absolute
00:55:39
worst III really think now I want to get get into this too much but I think you know cost-effectiveness and all this
00:55:48
stuff with the death penalty it doesn't work for some states but it should be this simple you kill somebody you know
00:55:55
you know first-degree murder you go well away for life yeah yeah let's knock it this is a long road to go down
00:56:03
right right with a lot of time I you know he he tortured this guy we have and we know I'm getting evidence of it
00:56:12
and and he's he's gonna possibly get out one day and all he's gonna do is he's chances are now what we can hope for is
00:56:20
that he will not be a model citizen in prison and then he'll have to do more time but uh but yeah these these
00:56:28
individuals they can't be helped well as justice Matthews pointed out during the trial and at the during the
00:56:35
sentencing phase anyway was that Mallette showed no remorse and poses a huge serious threat to the community
00:56:44
this basically was a cold-blooded premeditated thrill kill mm-hmm that this that this guy did and then on top
00:56:53
of that what's weird to is that is not his his last name by birth yes he's related to Ivan milette but he's like
00:57:03
the the great he's like a cousin or sorry a great nephew of him and he had a different last name but changed it
00:57:13
because it's too violent when he was 14 now I don't know if he was just going by
00:57:18
the last name of Millette rather than officially having changed it but regardless I mean right there site you
00:57:25
see where we're going with that now we talked about the case against Neville night in the trailer and I am betting
00:57:36
some of you are wondering what does that have to do with this case we never really gave you the outcome of the story
00:57:43
of the 16 year old boy who was picked up by the cab driver the explosion that the
00:57:48
cab driver heard the boy fired a gun through the backseat shooting Neville in the back okay and the boy rather than
00:57:58
helping Neville he just opened up the door observed the damage he wanted to see the damage done and he ran off into
00:58:07
the darkness mm-hmm we do have a man that was convicted of that crime this was a guy that confessed
00:58:18
shortly after this was a few months after the fact we have Alan Dylan who confessed to shooting Neville
00:58:27
Knight in the back in that cab he was sentenced to five years for the shooting the attack left Neville Knight a
00:58:36
paraplegic and he didn't live an extremely long life he didn't live many years after
00:58:44
that and he did a lot of good for other people he became an advocate for wounded
00:58:50
individuals so he did a lot of good in his life but where this story kind of circles back around is in 2015
00:58:59
Ivan's brother Boris Mallette he said that Ivan told him he was the one that shot Neville Knight back in 1962 in that
00:59:10
cab that he shot the cab driver observed him and ran off now where we get the confession from is many years later
00:59:20
Allen Dillon the man who served five years for this attack he said the way it was presented to him during the
00:59:29
interviews with police was that they suspected his younger brother Allan Dylan's younger brother of committing
00:59:37
the crime Allen Dylan took it upon himself to give them a false confession to spare his
00:59:44
brother the jail sentence right and unfortunately all these years later when this story finally comes to light in
00:59:52
2015 Neville Knight is no longer around - to confirm these suspicions but if in fact Boris's statements regarding his
01:00:05
brother saying I was the one that shot that cab driver 19 1962 you can see the progression and it also goes to what you
01:00:14
can imagine Ivan was doing to his victims out there in the state forest as he traveled as he chased them down
01:00:21
remember choice of weapon killer choice of victim killer he got them out there he chose his weapons he chose his attack
01:00:30
and it's almost you see the progression that started at the age of 16 when he sat in the back of the
01:00:37
cab and fired the gun into the seat and into the back of Neville Knight we do have a somewhat of an update I
01:00:46
know it's our first time covering this but Ivan has been in the news quite a bit lately and this is because in May of
01:00:53
this year May of 2019 Ivana let was it's been reported anyway that he was diagnosed with terminal esophageal
01:01:03
cancer and I know I probably didn't say that in the best way but it's basically cancer of the oesophagus this from my
01:01:13
understanding of a friend of mine his father suffered this same type of cancer and from what I've been told this is not
01:01:23
a look they're all bad cancers but this one is particularly bad where the the survival rate is not very high at all
01:01:31
mm-hmm so as you pointed out earlier captain you wonder given that this man probably has days left if in fact we
01:01:43
will see some type of deathbed confession maybe it's maybe it's not all the information that's out there maybe
01:01:52
it doesn't you know but maybe it clear some things up we have other family members of his that
01:01:57
have been accused by the public and in suspicions upon them throughout the years Ivan did say through when he was
01:02:06
in prison many years after he was convicted that his brothers are not guilty of anything although he still
01:02:13
claims to be innocent of the murders themselves right but the I want to break down that scenario a little bit better
01:02:19
because I think him try and put the blame on his brothers I think that eventually came back to his mother and
01:02:26
he was kind of favored by his mother Ivan was so eventually at some point the rumor is or or what people speculate is
01:02:34
that he told his mother hey they're not responsible and actually confessed to her all of his crimes that's what they
01:02:43
believe yeah yeah I I went down that road and I but it's not like she has wrote him down and did a press
01:02:53
conference about it or anything so the way that I understand that is that the one of the lead investigators I believe
01:03:01
he was the man in charge of the task force he wrote a book and his name escapes me at the moment
01:03:06
but he wrote a book about the case and actually there there are several books out there regarding this case yes the
01:03:15
way that I understand the story is he that investigator eventually heard this statement through one of the brothers
01:03:23
that the mother the mother apparently told one of the brothers Ivan confessed to me and then she passed away so like
01:03:32
everything else with this story it's not a clean it's not a clean ending it's okay this story comes from one of the
01:03:43
other brothers we know that other brothers were wall and the other suspects or you know at least suspicion
01:03:50
from the public yeah because some of the items that they found that they believed Ivan had were
01:03:57
actually found in his brother's possession mhm um but now if you follow that story back
01:04:04
it was idem that he took from his family's home when he moved so it wasn't like it wasn't like these items just
01:04:14
happened to be at his house these items came from the family's house but I I think what's also really interesting is
01:04:24
the his defense lawyer that which defended him you know decades earlier and and the trial of the Marsden I think
01:04:34
was yes and before he passed away he was saying that he believed that none of the
01:04:41
brothers actually helped Ivan but it was actually Ivan's sister that helped him communes crimes yeah I saw that they the
01:04:50
other thing that's weird here though while we talk about the brothers Walther Mallette so the one of the most damning
01:05:00
pieces of evidence against Ivan during the course of his trial remember we stated that there were some
01:05:06
firearms found in Ivan's home but actually the the thing that was worse for him was the piece I said there were
01:05:14
some gun parts that were found in his home it was one of the parts of a 22 rifle that was found that was a piece of
01:05:22
evidence that was so very strong against Ivan because it was found concealed in his home like hidden like purposely if
01:05:31
you saw the thing you knew like somebody was trying to hide this and not just hide it for today tomorrow or next week
01:05:36
they didn't want anybody to find it ever so when they found this piece and they ran their ballistics on it of course
01:05:44
they had to you know reattach it to other pieces of guns and things like that but what they determined after
01:05:51
firing bullets through that part was that the markings on those bullets matched markings on bullets at multiple
01:06:00
crime scenes at multiple murder scenes basically knowing that that part of that gun was involved in the murder of those
01:06:08
victims that was found in Ivan's home in his possession what's interesting is out
01:06:15
of all these brothers we say he's got four sisters and nine brothers big family out of the whole family I even
01:06:23
had a fairly sophisticated security system and he was known to be extremely protective insecure of his home and we
01:06:35
can only imagine the the many reasons why out of all of his family Walter Mallette was the only one that
01:06:44
had access 24/7 to his home so many have wondered throughout the years this piece
01:06:52
of evidence that was really the strongest piece of evidence against Ivan Walter would have had the ability to
01:07:00
place it in the home yeah there's a lot of stuff with this family and we could probably spend another hour talking
01:07:07
about some of the speculation but just to go over it really quickly at some point people believe that Ivan was
01:07:14
having affairs with his brothers wives there's also then rumors that Ivan was having a sexual relationship with one of
01:07:27
his sisters supposedly the whole family knew about it supposedly multiple brothers had sexual
01:07:34
relationships with that sister you know like I said there was reports of physical abuse from the father possible
01:07:44
physical abuse from the mother and so then you wonder if he was having an affair with one of his brother's wife
01:07:53
is that enough to you know plain evidence you know to get him convicted of a crime he didn't commit
01:08:03
there's just so many things strange about this family and so many things you could dive in the speculation of this
01:08:11
family well Ivan milette is often referred to as Australia's most notorious and infamous serial killer and
01:08:20
even though we have the convictions we are left here today believing we still do not have all the answers
01:08:37
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stylish garage and how about a little recommended reading before we wrap things up for this week this week we're
01:09:26
gonna recommend BTK the true story behind the 30-year hunt for the notorious Wichita serial killer by the
01:09:34
great John Douglas this of course this recommendation in the spirit of mind hunter season 2 which we have been
01:09:43
discussing and will be discussing on our other great show off the record so until
01:09:49
next week everybody out there be good be kind and don't litter [Music]