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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:44
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me this week is my very special
00:01:50
guest Aaron from the Generation Y podcast hey Nick great to be on your show thank you for joining us I thought
00:01:58
since you are our guest this week that it would be appropriate to ask you if you have a beer that you would like to
00:02:05
choose for the beer of the week this week absolutely my favorite beer hands down if someone said you'll get free
00:02:12
beer for a year but you can only drink this beer it would be de shoot obsidian Stout how about a garage grade it would
00:02:20
be five caps out of five easily well de shoot Brewery describes their obsidian Stout like this deep robust and richly
00:02:28
rewarding this this is beer to linger over obsidian has distinct notes of espresso chocolate roasted malt and
00:02:35
black barley with just enough hot bite to cut the sweetness now for me the reason I like it is because it's not too
00:02:42
hoppy it's very dark I mean you can't see through it and it's perfectly balanced between the chocolate and The
00:02:49
Malt uh and the espresso so it's the kind of beer that I can linger over as they say or I can just drink it regular
00:02:58
I can just I can down a couple pretty quick so it seems like a beer that fits pretty much any occasion thank you Aaron
00:03:05
and this week's beer is brought To Us by all of you good listeners out there first up we have Amy from Columbus next
00:03:12
a shout out to Valerie L from Milwaukee Wisconsin and we have Jessica and her friend mallerie Forza young in Portland
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Oregon and last but not least we have Robin in Kirkwood Missouri so thanks to everybody for going to True Crim
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garage.com and helping out with this week's beer fund if you want to help us out with
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next week's show go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and that's enough of the business
00:03:39
everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime Randy and Deborah sandstrom lived
00:04:04
together for about 20 years at their home on South River Road about 2 miles out in the country beyond the Delaware
00:04:11
County Fairgrounds in Walton New York Walton is a small town population of a little over 3,000 people Deborah was
00:04:21
born on January 4th 1965 she and her siblings grew up in Walton and she graduated from high
00:04:29
school there in 1984 Randy was from Rosco he was one of three children of farmers Randy joined the army in
00:04:39
1981 After High School and served 2 years afterward he operated a small engine repair shop the Suns did not have
00:04:48
children together but before they got together back in 1989 Randy had a child with his girlfriend at the time his
00:04:56
daughter's name is Mindy Randy and and his girlfriend the child's mother didn't stay together and unfortunately Randy
00:05:05
left when his daughter was just about 2 years old moving about 30 miles away now
00:05:11
Randy failed to maintain a relationship with his daughter he would send cards money and sometimes a gift for birthdays
00:05:18
or Christmas but he did not see his daughter after he left yeah Mindy has talked about this since saying that she
00:05:25
thought maybe at least from what she heard is that Randy's wife Deborah was jealous and didn't want him to have a
00:05:33
relationship with his daughter because that would take away from their relationship yeah Mel she stated that uh
00:05:40
and now she's in her late 20s but she said that quote he wasn't around U I'm sorry he was only around
00:05:48
until she was about two and that seems to be when he met Deborah and then moved to Walton and she says I didn't see him
00:05:56
again after that adding that she didn't really know him at all so all of this takes place seemingly when Randy and
00:06:05
Deborah meet are fall in love or what have you now we do already know that they went on to be married and have a
00:06:14
long relationship Deborah worked for years with a Delaware County social welfare agency later she began working
00:06:22
as a grocery store cashier Randy worked for many years at the warehouse for Drogan home home furnishings and then
00:06:31
for some time at Scott machine Corporation in engraving firm in Walton now the sunstrom had an
00:06:39
interesting hobby Randy being the son of farmers why not right uh they sometime in the late 90s they started growing
00:06:50
pumpkins and they wanted to learn how to grow the biggest pumpkins that maybe anyone in the great state of New York
00:06:59
has ever ever seen Randy was the founding president of the New York State giant pumpkin growers association and in
00:07:07
1999 Randy and Deborah set a goal to break the state record for the largest pumpkin I guess in 2008 they grew a
00:07:16
pumpkin that weighed almost 1500 PBS yeah there there are these pumpkins and you can't just go buy seeds at a store
00:07:24
from what I understand you have to get the right seeds and the type of pumpkin they're growing are Dills Atlantic giant
00:07:32
they were trying to grow these giant pumpkins now 2008 1500 lb huge right well to give you some perspective
00:07:40
nowadays they're 2600 lb so these pumpkins are no joke and they start uh as a little potl as I would call it in
00:07:50
your kitchen basically and then they end up outside and you have to grow them a certain way it takes a lot of care a lot
00:07:56
of patience and of course later you need a crane basically to move these things um they were even in a documentary from
00:08:05
2007 titled the Lords of the gour also in their Garden they they tended to pumpkins dozens of tomato plants and
00:08:12
other standard vegetables as well as blueberries and grapes they didn't hang out at bars they didn't go to church
00:08:19
they farmed and they grew big fat giant pumpkins simple life Simple Story right nothing out of the ordinary except for
00:08:28
the poor sad decision Randy made to not be a real father to a little girl but we
00:08:35
wouldn't be talking about this story on a show like the garage or on a show like
00:08:40
Generation Y if it were just that simple would we so in 2010 apparently Randy did his whole Houdini trick once
00:08:53
again apparently leaving Deborah high and dry now Deborah told friends and Neighbors that Randy had run off Randy
00:09:01
had met someone else and that new love interest got pregnant Deborah said Randy took off to start a new life and
00:09:09
according to Deborah the stoms had been hiding a secret for years the Family secret is Randy was an abusive man and
00:09:19
Deborah was forced to live in an abusive relationship for years after Randy was gone Deborah told friends and neighbors
00:09:28
that they did not know the real Randy she told a story of a late night fight when Randy came home very late one night
00:09:36
and because Deborah was upset with Randy for being out so late she locked him out
00:09:41
of the house so Randy tried to break into the house and this ultimately led to a physical altercation in which Randy
00:09:48
hit Deborah and then Deborah hit Randy yeah this is a story someone reported that they had heard as best as I can
00:09:56
tell it seems like a deviation from the couple that everyone knew I mean you already talked about how they
00:10:04
didn't go out to bars they didn't go on road trips they were gardeners gardening
00:10:10
was their life I mean it went beyond a hobby it became their life yeah Deborah went on to say that her ticket out of
00:10:17
this abusive relationship was when Randy fell for another woman and then took off
00:10:23
with Randy gone Deborah continued to work and live at the couple's home she continued gardening and walking their
00:10:31
dog she would often walk her dog with the nextd door neighbor it became kind of routine for the two of them to talk
00:10:40
and sometimes Deborah to share stories about Randy now about a year after Randy was gone Deborah got a job as a cashier
00:10:51
at the Big M Supermarket in Walton the owner said that Deborah was a hard worker and and was a customer favorite
00:11:01
she had been working at Big M Supermarket for about 2 years I believe when in February of
00:11:08
2013 she was accused of stealing a pocketbook that a customer had left at the store apparently Deborah kept the
00:11:17
pocketbook and when confronted about the missing pocketbook she lied saying she didn't know where it could be but the
00:11:24
store's video surveillance footage told a much different story The pocketbook was in fact in Deborah's possession the
00:11:32
store decided the best thing to do was to press charges and Deborah was charged with leny yeah it's a it's a theft and
00:11:41
it cost her her job and then she was charged five counts of Larsen in the fourth degree and basically this is
00:11:51
because she took a pocketbook and this is verified on video and the amount uh that she Stole was in excess of $11,000
00:12:02
at least the value of the pocketbook so she's charged with this five counts you said and for unknown reasons Deborah
00:12:09
sunstrom decides to not appear in court she failed to appear in court and what happens when you don't show up to court
00:12:18
well a bench wart is issued they're going to go and deliver the warrant and make you go to court so the warrant was
00:12:27
typed up and now it's time to deliver said warrant law enforcers learned that Deborah was spending a lot of time at a
00:12:37
some some have called it a vacation home or second home that was owned by the Bosco family Deborah was involved in a
00:12:45
relationship with Dominic Bosco so that's where law enforcement is going to go once they don't find Deborah at her
00:12:53
home they don't just send a couple of officers they send the Walton police Chief Brian
00:13:00
louser and Delaware County Sheriff Office senior investigator Carl vs Jr sounds like pretty pretty important law
00:13:08
enforcement Personnel showing up to serve this warrant they're sending the brass so this is it at about 2 p.m. on
00:13:17
February 19th 2013 as you said Aaron we have the Walton police chief we have a ranking
00:13:25
investigator from the Sheriff's Office they're going to served this warrant at 294 John Lockwood
00:13:34
Road Deborah sunstrom answered the door when they knocked the officers informed her she was being
00:13:42
arrested now Deborah answered the door wearing a night shirt she asked if the officers could possibly wait on the
00:13:51
stoop just outside the front door so that she could get dressed before they arrest her now this is a small town as
00:13:59
we mentioned one of the officers knew Deborah and apparently had known her for years so he agrees to allow her request
00:14:09
so they're going to give her a moment to change out of her night clothes now Deborah shuts the door and within a
00:14:16
minute things change drastically I'll say they hear a couple of gunshots which of course since the officers were there
00:14:23
to serve this bench warrant uh for failure to show up in court on these charges now they're going to break in through
00:14:30
the door and investigate and that's uh that's a pretty risky move it it's just hard to imagine they they knew this
00:14:38
woman she had a good reputation and they just never could have imagined that gunshots would have
00:14:44
rang out from the house in this situation yeah one of the officers reported hearing two gunshots within
00:14:52
approximately 1 minute of Deborah closing the door police chief flower is the one who went upstairs and discovered
00:14:59
two bodies one of Deborah sunstrom and the other was her beloved dog an Australian Shepherd named Shadow both
00:15:08
have been shot to death with a weapon that was found very close by a 3030 rifle the other officer noticed that the
00:15:15
house was on fire and yells to the chief to get out now they managed to escape the fire but they watched helplessly as
00:15:26
the house burned apparently leaving only the wraparound deck in a fireplace chimney
00:15:33
near the front door firefighters saved a detached garage now Deborah must have acted very
00:15:40
fast after the door closed later police said Deborah set the house of Blaze then
00:15:46
she shot and killed her dog shadow with one shot from that 3030 rifle and then with a second shot she shot and killed
00:15:55
herself now once the fire was out and the smoke cleared cleed investigators have to go into the house and recover
00:16:01
the woman's body and this is when they get another surprise yeah they you know they really tried to preserve this scene
00:16:10
they had firefighters from both Walton and Deli coming by uh to try and put this fire out and they just weren't able
00:16:18
to put it out in time in fact the call from the officers went out soon after that 2 p.m. time that they reported to
00:16:25
the house so even with quick action you can't always save a scene and uh with everything burned down like that now
00:16:34
they have to see what they can recover but it's it's also been said that she may have set the fire as soon as she
00:16:40
knew that they were there uh even before she opened the door yeah this is a situation where you really feel
00:16:47
like she she had to believe that they would come for her at some point and it it almost seems to me like too much has
00:16:57
to be done and too little of amount of time that some of this had to to been put into action
00:17:04
before they even knocked on the door and we know that neither of the gunshots took place until after they had already
00:17:12
spoke to her so you have to wonder how much was already set into motion before she ends up taking her life and when was
00:17:23
the decision made by her that that was going to be the result should they come for I think we'll be able to answer that
00:17:30
better after we cover more of the story of course it it's somewhat speculation but there may be some Clues as to why
00:17:38
she did what she did so what else in the house did they find when they were in there looking
00:17:44
through the rebel trying to protect this scene they spent more than a couple of days just going through this house
00:17:53
because it was mostly burnt down now they're just sifting through everything essentially but they ended up finding
00:18:00
the unidentified an unidentified man in what was the basement of the home and he was
00:18:08
situated where you could say the stair the stairs had gone down from the Upper Floor so they but they didn't know who
00:18:15
this man was and because Deborah at least from all uh appearances seemed to have committed arson shot her dog and
00:18:25
then shot herself this is really out of character at least as far as anybody knew about her so now they're wondering
00:18:32
who's the man could it be Dominic BOS you know after all it was his family's home or it might also be that of Randy
00:18:41
sunstrom because heck maybe she was lying that whole time yeah and ultimately it turns out to be the body
00:18:50
of Dominic bosow and it's believed that she if she in fact was the one that killed him it's believed that he died
00:19:00
one to three days before Deborah killed herself it's kind of a mystery but on the other hand they're just going by the
00:19:08
last time anyone had heard from him and they so it's it involves some speculation he did die and then of
00:19:18
course his body was in a home that burnt down so it could be very difficult to get the answers that the investigators
00:19:25
require but before they even identify you know whose body it was they found something else interesting because over
00:19:34
the course of several days they were searching this Bosco house but they were also starting to search Deborah's own
00:19:42
home and there was a a state police investigator who used a caver dog to search around her home and the dog
00:19:50
alerted to a sealed 55 gallon drum outside of the house and when the investigator removed the lid
00:19:58
he found the moldering remains of a body so at that point they had two mysterious
00:20:05
bodies and I think all they knew at that point at that time was that they were both men that's it yeah and I think this
00:20:13
is pretty simple here just the search itself you know police are going to be tasked with trying to find Randy
00:20:20
sunstrom being that I mean technically he and Deborah would still be legally married at this time so they're going to
00:20:29
be looking for him I I don't know what kind of hunch that the police were working with but it doesn't take Albert
00:20:38
Einstein to figure out hey we've she killed herself what in the process of us trying to serve a warrant she kills her
00:20:46
dog sets a house on fire we find an unidentified body that turns out to be that of Dominic BOS her her known to be
00:20:55
boyfriend at the time it's not really a leap here for them to go out and get the
00:21:00
proper search warrant for her home and then to bring a cadaver sniffing dog to the house with them and like you said
00:21:09
the dog hits almost immediately leading the Handler to that 55g drum molder which is what moldering comes from is
00:21:21
slowly Decay or disintegrate especially because of neglect going off of their statement his body may have just been
00:21:31
folded up and placed in that Barrel basically just left there it doesn't seem like she has applied anything to
00:21:41
try to speed up the process or or diminish the the odor or anything like that so
00:21:49
he's found in a 55 gallon barrel this is located behind the couple's garage now keep in mind he's been missing for like
00:21:59
over 1,000 days at this time and and then ultimately the body was hiding in plain sight just 25 to 30 Paces from the
00:22:09
back door of the sunstrom home yeah a neighbor reported that he mowed the lawn right next to that
00:22:16
drum many many times and he had no idea but see that's the thing is no one expected anything like this to happen
00:22:24
with Deborah and so I think that's why they wanted to search home because they were thinking why would she shoot her
00:22:31
dog and herself over this bench warrant because sure you have law enforcement visiting your home to arrest you but it
00:22:40
wasn't as if they were going to arrest her for a murder this was for the theft of a pocketbook for a wallet so it just
00:22:48
didn't make sense so that's when their inner sense says there's something else going on here yeah and Deborah sunstrom
00:22:56
is really the only suspect in her husband's death and the thing here too is we have Deborah who she she got away
00:23:08
with murder for like three years and this is basically just because no one reported Randy as missing his parents
00:23:17
had passed away by this point and he was not in contact with his two siblings both of whom lived lived at a state his
00:23:27
few close friends believed Deborah's story about him leaving her and one of his friends is on record saying look I
00:23:37
just thought maybe he was embarrassed about taking off and that he would eventually reach out to me at some point
00:23:45
but he never did and then it's only in hindsight that his friend is saying wow that much time passed and he never
00:23:53
reached out to me I should have I should have thought that something was wrong here yeah I should have but I think we
00:24:01
need to give more credit to the fact that Deborah had won people over and and not for any kind of devious reasons or
00:24:10
anything it's just they were together for 20 years and over that time people got to know her and they really liked
00:24:16
her she was very personable and so why wouldn't she be telling the truth but you know I'll often say when someone
00:24:24
goes missing and the only other person that may have known what happened is saying oh yeah they just ran off but
00:24:30
then that person never contacts anyone else anyone else I find it really really questionable but then again Deborah was
00:24:38
personable and people liked her and we know he'd already left his own daughter behind before so why not his wife yeah I
00:24:48
think that probably would have added a lot of validation to any Skeptics out there that she was that Deborah was in
00:24:56
fact telling the truth that he had done this before and I would imagine the people
00:25:03
closest to him the ones that would be concerned of his whereabouts would be aware of this story so it's not
00:25:11
like it's not like this isn't something that he would not be capable of because he in fact did the very same thing just
00:25:19
at a much younger age now you said that she got away with murder for three years
00:25:25
Dr James Turan the path ologist conducted the autopsies on then the two unidentified bodies he
00:25:34
identified them we already talked about that but for Dominic bosow he said he couldn't figure out his manner or cause
00:25:43
of death so both were listed as undetermined so Dominic bosow he is listed as cause of death
00:25:52
undetermined manner of death be it homicide accident natural causes undetermined
00:26:02
undetermined and then that I guess you could say when we get to Randy sunstrom the manner of death was
00:26:09
homicide but the cause was undetermined now to me this is interesting because he's saying he
00:26:16
believes that Randy was as a result of a homicide I don't know if that's because
00:26:22
of the the drum that he was found in but we don't really have any real Clues as to how he was killed what what I've seen
00:26:31
from several of the cases that we've covered is is this exact situation where the concealment of the body is leading
00:26:40
him to to the determination of a homicide where Dominic Bosco you could make an argument that where he was found
00:26:51
at the what would have been the foot of the stairs to the basement could have possibly he could
00:26:58
have fallen he could have heart attack uh and just fell there the placement of that body is is
00:27:09
such a manner where it could have just he could have just died where he fell where we know in Randy's
00:27:17
situation the the probability of him being in that Barrel when he died of natural causes is so
00:27:24
incredibly mathematically D near impossible that that is where we're getting the
00:27:31
determination of of homicide as well it'd be I would be curious to see what else was in the barrel with him or if
00:27:41
there was even more evidence to push the pathologist to that determination yes and I know that uh before we recorded we
00:27:50
actually had a discussion about would there be any followup and I know that these pathologists are kind of stretched
00:27:58
thin to begin with and if I guess for the sake of argument if Deborah was responsible for these deaths then with
00:28:08
her death who are you going to prosecute I mean why spend the money or the time why do the followup if you really can't
00:28:17
take this case anywhere think about it this way no one called on behalf of Randy the whole time he was missing no
00:28:26
one not one person called any law enforcement uh Department to say Randy sunstrom is
00:28:34
missing and I want to file a report about it no one did that so obviously there's probably not a lot of uh voices
00:28:44
ringing out saying do something about this figure out how he died now as far as Dominic Bosco his parents they didn't
00:28:52
really want to talk about Deborah and I'm not sure why but it could be that they just didn't see this coming and I
00:28:58
think maybe they're lost for words well his family I believe they were out of they were out of Towners and that was
00:29:07
kind of their like second home or Retreat type of home where he was he had been staying apparently he was really
00:29:15
into the outdoors and and enjoyed staying in this I saw one description where they called it a cabin but
00:29:25
um I don't know that I would call it a cabin but that's where we have this difficult situation so we we we have
00:29:33
what we see to be technically unsolved at least one unsolved homicide as far as the ruling
00:29:43
goes but are these in fact closed cases where they believe everything points to Deborah as being the murderer of both
00:29:55
Dominic and Randy she's no longer with us died by her own hand in that manner are these cases no
00:30:06
longer open and closed but technically still [Music] unsolved this show is sponsored by
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00:32:28
committed the murders and I think the police know at least in their own minds that Deborah sunstrom is the one who
00:32:35
killed both Dominic bosow and Randy sunstrom but I'm not sure it's that simple there might actually be reasons
00:32:44
for why these murders were committed and why Deborah took her own life well let's
00:32:50
get into that and what is your speculation as far as cause of death for Domin and or Randy I honestly you know
00:33:01
thinking about it I couldn't come up with anything uh the only thing that I could say is we might have to entertain
00:33:08
many more possibilities given the fact that she was able to take her pretty Burly husband Randy and get him into a
00:33:17
barrel into this drum because that sounds like no easy feet he was kind of a big dude I know people have said she
00:33:25
was very strong but that's that's a determined woman right there to get this big guy into a drum so
00:33:32
I think the guy's the limit obviously they didn't find anything obvious but there could be many things here that
00:33:40
could have been the cause of death and I just can't really think other than to say I think we would have to include
00:33:48
a lot of possibilities well we know it wasn't or at least the pathologist does not believe that gun that a gun was
00:33:56
involved D in either of their deaths because they found no bullets just going off of playing the
00:34:04
numbers I feel like poison poisoning is probably a good consideration in maybe both of these
00:34:13
cases and if that if that is the case then we're talking about something very premeditated especially if it was done
00:34:21
twice but also fast acting because ry's you know they always try to narrow down the time frame of when someone
00:34:31
died uh in ry's case as far as they can tell he died about the time he disappeared and we know from uh
00:34:40
Dominic's death that he appeared to have died one to three days prior so that might also be a clue as to why
00:34:48
he was killed but if it was a poison it would have to be fast acting I would think well and because the house burnt
00:34:58
down the the pathologist playing at a huge disadvantage trying to figure out the cause and manner of death for
00:35:05
Dominic and really that that determination of him being dead one to three days is is as
00:35:12
you said based off of when was he last seen I believe a lot of it to be from his work what they could track through
00:35:20
his work records for that week or for that time period just shortly before his death yeah the other interesting thing
00:35:27
and and we didn't talk about this yet but about close to two weeks before Dominic's death or at least the time we
00:35:36
believe he died she had informed his family that he lost his phone so if they needed to get a hold of him they should
00:35:44
call her but he had a relative I believe his brother after he heard about the house being on fire he started calling
00:35:53
both his brother and Deborah and couldn't get a hold of either one but then he wasn't sure because she had told
00:36:00
him that he didn't have his phone anymore so he could sort of understand why his brother didn't answer the phone
00:36:07
but then Deborah wasn't answering hers either this is a very weird thing to me because then you have to wonder if we
00:36:15
are dealing with a poisoning or any form of premeditated murder from Deborah killing
00:36:23
Dominic was this planned before this phone call is made to her to his relative explaining away the phone
00:36:33
and why you would not be able to reach him by phone right and that's what I wondered was he still going to work what
00:36:40
was going on with him because if she was planning this weeks out which we could understand because that was about the
00:36:47
time she had been served she had been charged with these offenses but to me I think she was already planning his death
00:36:56
if not already had him in an incapacitated state or something because that's some real control there oh yeah
00:37:04
don't call them because you won't get a hold of them his phone's gone so if she did Kill both of them why what are the
00:37:12
the the theories on on why because that's really what we're left with I personally I feel there there are other
00:37:20
answers there are other questions that need to be answered but all all arrows seem to point to Deborah in both of
00:37:29
these cases now somebody else could be involved maybe there are other players here that we are unaware of but what is
00:37:38
the motivator why did she do it why would she kill Randy why would she kill Dominic
00:37:45
and there's there's also thought that it doesn't have to be for the same reason and it seems very
00:37:53
strange that this stealing of a pocketbook cuz that seems to be what what's what started this domino
00:38:03
effect that's the only thing that jumps off the page but that just doesn't it doesn't ring true it doesn't make sense
00:38:10
I think it does in a way because the only thing that's weird about it is why did she take the
00:38:16
pocketbook was it just an opportunity where she didn't think she would be caught did she not know about the
00:38:22
cameras but yes this is what invited law enforcement into her life life we already accept that she likely
00:38:30
killed Randy but no one followed up on that so she got away with that as you said but why kill
00:38:37
Dominic I think there's more of a complicated story here really when they started asking her
00:38:44
friends and neighbors and family what were they like what was this couple like and meaning Randy and Deborah well a lot
00:38:52
of people said they were the perfect couple they did everything together they were in love they spent all their time
00:38:59
together they lived for gardening but while that's true other people started saying well she told me that she had
00:39:08
been abused by Randy and then they would recount these stories like the one you gave about Randy trying to break into
00:39:14
the home and then being mad that she had locked him out and then him hitting her
00:39:19
but in the end a lot of people just said well that's what she told me they didn't
00:39:23
have any firsthand accounts until they talked to their neighbor which was Al Budin and hopefully I'm saying his name
00:39:31
right but Al Budin is the one that was mowing the lawn right next to the drum for all that time and he said that there
00:39:39
were two separate incidents where Deborah ran over to his home having been beaten by Randy and she was trying to
00:39:48
find Refuge she was trying to get away to be safe for a little while until things calmed down and he went on to say
00:39:55
that there was even a report to the police about this after one of those incidents so in his mind the police
00:40:02
should have known about this but see who called the police because when the police were discussing this case
00:40:10
they didn't think domestic violence was a part of this case at all right they they thought it was
00:40:16
unrelated now between you me and our great audience I would say there's a real possibility that domestic violence
00:40:25
was involved how well did anyone know Randy I mean what would be her motive to kill him
00:40:31
after 20 years where it seemed like they were only getting closer now we know he didn't run off and
00:40:38
he didn't have a pregnant girlfriend we know that's not true but why did she murder him there's a real possibility
00:40:45
that she murdered him because he was beating her I mean are we going to Discount uh Al's Story I mean unless he
00:40:52
was in on it I I find his story pretty compelling I do too do I do as well I reading a couple different versions of
00:41:02
that same story I I I wish that I was able to ask Al exactly what he saw and what he was told
00:41:12
because that's really his that's where his story is different than everybody else's if we are to go by that statement
00:41:20
of she appeared to have been beaten when she arrived at his home asking for help
00:41:27
that's much different than all these other stories where it's just it's just Deborah relaying something that she says
00:41:35
happened relaying actions of Randy's that she says he did so yes it's a very different story in that sense I would
00:41:45
love to I would love to see if he could look me in the eye and say yes that's I that's what I saw not that not that she
00:41:55
was running from the house saying and telling him he's he's going to beat me the way that his statement comes off in
00:42:02
that in the one article makes it sounds like the damage had already been done she had already been harmed by Randy
00:42:10
before she went to Al for help yes he used the phrase beaten to hell and so we could have a situation
00:42:19
where and that's what's so weird to me about you know domestic violence violence isn't supposed to make
00:42:27
sense so I don't know why I'm trying to make sense out of it but the the pictures that I saw of Deborah and Randy
00:42:34
and the the lifestyle that they were were living and the way that everybody spoke about them just makes the domestic
00:42:43
violence so weird to me it doesn't seem it's like it doesn't fit but again if it
00:42:49
was there then maybe it was the quote unquote Family secret and that's how it works sometimes I know
00:43:00
I've had uh many people run into Generation Y and say no one knew about the abuse that was happening to me and
00:43:07
in some cases they felt afraid to say anything because they just knew that no one would believe them because the other
00:43:13
person was so well-liked and in this case it worked that way for both of them if it was true
00:43:20
that he was beating his wife then who would have believed it and then he didn't really run away but that's
00:43:28
what Deborah said and everyone bought it it's all about perception I guess and what you think you
00:43:37
know in the killing of Randy do you believe that she acted alone it sounds like you have some suspicions of uh
00:43:48
because of how the body was found um once again we're relying on Al Al believes that she was more than
00:43:56
capable of getting her husband into that drum he said that she she would outwork
00:44:02
any man is the way he described her yeah I don't know what it would take and and but also Randy is not described
00:44:14
as being a small man no both of the men are her life uh both Randy and Dominic or Nick as people
00:44:24
knew him they both known to be pretty Burly guys uh and especially Dominic he was described as a guy who could take
00:44:32
care of himself and so people said he must have been ambushed they just didn't see how she
00:44:38
would have been able to harm him if he saw her coming but I I think uh when it comes down to
00:44:46
it for me um I I lean toward the domestic violence as being a real Factor here um
00:44:56
that's barring any other strange or unexpected change in the relationship of course but to me I could understand that
00:45:04
being a part of this and then why would she kill Dominic well she decided to take that pocketbook for some reason I
00:45:13
that's actually the biggest mystery to me I'm not sure why she did that but I think she started to panic and she'd
00:45:20
already murdered one man and I think for her she was hoping to Ride This Out so she murdered her other
00:45:28
man and with the you know the police chief and this investigator coming to her home well to what was her
00:45:35
boyfriend's home I think she started to feel put into a corner where she couldn't get out and she was I guess
00:45:44
more afraid of what would happen to her than worried about what it would be like
00:45:49
to take her own life I think part of my my theory there rests upon her killing her dog
00:45:57
because apparently she really liked Shadow he was an Australian Shepherd which I don't know a lot about dogs but
00:46:02
from people I've talked with they love this breed and I think it was a situation where she didn't want to leave
00:46:09
her dog behind I could see that and actually the thing here that I I think always kind of threw me off on
00:46:18
developing a good theory was the situation of the house being burnt down and but now I'm I'm almost wondering if
00:46:28
if she was in the process of doing that whether the authorities were going to show up
00:46:35
anyway and did she kill Dominic plan on burning the house to the ground look we know that it we know that
00:46:45
it already concealed his cause of death so if if she was planning to burn the house down to to conceal his cause of
00:46:55
death who's to say she would have got charged with anything in Dominic's murder or
00:47:03
death and where was she going to go you know I wonder I wonder if a lot of that stuff was already in motion at least
00:47:10
planned out in her mind and she happened to be it just happened to be that they knocked on the door before she left that
00:47:17
day before she lit the match and tossed it and and was able to drive off right it's a real question your theory makes
00:47:26
total sense but it's also the kind of theory that could throw into question my theory so I don't like it no I'm just
00:47:34
kidding um no it's a great Theory um and it what but what it would do is you would say maybe she had a different
00:47:41
motive than what I was thinking because if she was just trying to protect herself and she snapped and killed her
00:47:48
husband because she was tired of the abuse and then she ended up killing her boyfriend because she made a mistake
00:47:55
akake and she was scared of what was going to happen well that doesn't quite make as
00:48:01
much sense if what you say is possible and she was already planning to burn the house and then leave and then she could
00:48:08
say oh well I don't know what happened right because as we know the chances of proving that she did anything wrong kind
00:48:16
of get a little sketchy so you could have an arson investigator go in there and prove it was arson but maybe it's a
00:48:24
50-50 chance but if they go into the home and find a dead man at the bottom of the stairs
00:48:31
well at that point she's looking at prison time well and I also like the thought that you put into about her
00:48:38
shooting her dog because I think that that is could be some indicator of her motivation in
00:48:47
some of this and and I this is going down a different road than the theory I already presented but this was one that
00:48:54
struck me when looking into this case just the simple amount of well not the simple
00:49:03
amount the overwhelming amount of of control on her behalf in this whole situ not only is Randy dead but he's
00:49:13
concealed not only is Dominic dead the house was burnt down and she loved her dog she could
00:49:21
have let the dog out the back door or let the dog run free instead of shooting the dog and then shooting herself and
00:49:29
then the amount of of control that you add to it with her shooting herself this is going to end the way I want it to or
00:49:37
the way that at least in a way that I can control the outcome and some people have speculated
00:49:44
that Randy was not involved with his biological daughter because maybe Deborah would not allow him to do
00:49:54
so and I wonder if we could have a situation here where did Randy decide that he was going to leave Deborah for
00:50:02
any reason maybe they were fighting maybe maybe it wasn't just one-sided abuse maybe there was abuse by both
00:50:09
individuals we even have the one story that Deborah recounted saying that he hit me and I hit him
00:50:16
back maybe Randy wanted to see his daughter or maybe create some type of relationship there and de wasn't going
00:50:26
to have it or Deborah was not going to put up with Randy leaving her the Dominic thing I think is more confusing
00:50:32
to me about what the motive is and that's just simply because we don't know for certain what the
00:50:41
motivation would have been to kill Randy but there's there's different things to
00:50:47
look at and examine there there's different thoughts and speculation that you can apply to that murder with
00:50:54
Dominic's situation you're really only left with a couple of things that make sense and that's either
00:51:02
was this in some weird super bizarre way of covering up the whole pocketbook incident would that that just doesn't
00:51:11
seem right but then you could easily make the leap to going well could Dominic somehow have figured out what
00:51:19
happened to Randy and that might be motivation enough for her to act but I keep going back to this whole thing of
00:51:28
if she did in fact kill both those men she killed the dog she set the house on fire she took her own life there's just
00:51:33
so much overwhelming an overwhelming amount of control on on her behalf and that may be
00:51:41
the only truth we know of this case is we know from all of the evidence the one thing that you can tie it all together
00:51:49
with is control it's a case that that that opens itself up to more speculation than then information to provide but
00:51:58
those kinds of cases are interesting because sometimes you know it's like I was talking with someone today about
00:52:04
zombie movies the best ones the zombies are characters in the film but they're not really the drive of the film there
00:52:12
are these other storylines running that really grab your interest and so with cases like this it's not that someone
00:52:20
was killed in a spectacular way heck we don't even know how they were killed but
00:52:24
it's the motive it's the why and so we're trying to figure out why did Deborah who seeming seemingly had a
00:52:31
great life had a great husband why did she start to kill and why did she ultimately decide
00:52:38
to kill herself so to me it makes for a very interesting conversation and for anyone listening now they can start to
00:52:47
talk with their friends who listen and try to figure out what they think happened well and I think what adds a
00:52:52
lot to this mystery too is it does not seem team that I don't want to paint the picture of Deborah and Randy being shuin
00:52:59
they were certainly outgoing people I mean he was the founding president of that pumpkin Society or whatever it was
00:53:06
and they they participated in a lot of county fairs and I imagine state fairs as well
00:53:14
so they were certainly outgoing in at that aspect but they don't seem to have a lot of close knit relationships with
00:53:23
with a lot of people it seemed like their circle of friends was was quite small and we see that that not only
00:53:33
added to Randy's disappearance not being such a mystery or of concern but it also I think leaves a lot
00:53:42
of blanks and a lot of gaps that we're kind of left wondering about of what could have been actually
00:53:49
going on in that relationship because you also have the thought of it it's a two-sided coin point where you say well
00:53:57
the allegations of abuse put forward by Deborah only come out after Randy is no longer around to defend himself but the
00:54:04
flip side of that coin is if she was an abused woman she wouldn't have felt safe
00:54:11
telling people about what was really going on well she did tell her neighbor but as far as we can tell he
00:54:19
was the one out of everyone that seemed to have gotten the closest to them because he was right next door they were
00:54:26
always out gardening he was out gardening they spend a lot of time outside together was Al the the
00:54:34
gentleman that called himself their their pumpkin Mentor or was that a different friend CU they had somebody
00:54:40
that like taught him the the secrets of growing these giant fat P pumpkins no it
00:54:46
was uh bill bober I think his name was he was the one that was their pumpkin Mentor so he was the other one one so
00:54:56
their two closest friends were alodine and Bill bobier well and in one situation that we can talk about of
00:55:04
somebody doing the right thing in in an ironic twist ry's daughter Mindy Lackey says law enforcement told her she was
00:55:14
the legal next of Ken so she had the responsibility to take care of her father Randy's body now initially Mindy
00:55:23
said it really threw her for a loop she didn't know what to do she says quote I could have said he wasn't there for the
00:55:31
23 years of my life so why should I be there for him but ads that's just not who I am I have a bigger heart than that
00:55:41
so she did the right thing Mindy organized a proper sendoff for the stranger who was her father this
00:55:49
included a proper military Burial at solivan County veterans sem Cemetery yeah and I like that because so often in
00:55:58
life we can just say well no one cared about me but you know nothing ever gets better nothing ever gets set right if
00:56:07
someone doesn't sacrifice their own time or set aside their own feelings I mean life's not fair my mom has always told
00:56:14
me that so it's nice to see when someone can say yeah my dad he didn't care about
00:56:21
me he was never there for me but I'm the only one left to try and handle his Affairs to help put him to rest and she
00:56:28
did that so wow I mean all respect to Mindy yeah they often say that the harder thing to do and the right thing
00:56:36
to do are the same and that's this situation here she didn't have to give up her time
00:56:45
or maybe even some of her own money or regardless but her efforts she didn't need to make that effort for a guy that
00:56:54
made little to no effort on her behalf for so many years but like you said it's you do the right thing break the cycle
00:57:02
she knows what it feels like more than anybody else to not be feel not to feel wanted and I think that she
00:57:12
was wise enough and and had a big enough heart to say you know what I'm going to
00:57:18
do what I think is right here and I'm going to take care of this man in death even though he wasn't there for me and
00:57:28
you know Dominic BOS he was laid to rest by his family and they talked about him
00:57:36
and about how they wanted him to be remembered rather than this almost forgotten victim of
00:57:43
Deborah's um you know in their minds he was a hard worker he was an honest guy he was not afraid to tell the truth no
00:57:50
matter what they said he would stand up to anything he would face anything anything and they said they were going
00:57:57
to miss him yeah and he's the only one out of the three that is accused of nothing and like you said hard worker
00:58:05
and he may have just simply crossed paths with the wrong woman at the wrong stage of in her life you know I I I've
00:58:13
been wondering if things were really coming in on her the walls were closing in I wonder if she had said something
00:58:23
maybe they got into an argument but what if she said to him yeah keep talking you'll end up like Randy right and then
00:58:30
he said oh yeah what happened to Randy and then she thought damn mhm he was found at the bottom of the stairs and
00:58:39
like you said it's difficult to figure out what happened to him but given everything that occurred and everything
00:58:46
that we know it's not a stretch to say that the stairway had something to do with his death whether he was poisoned
00:58:54
or pushed or hit in the head or something something happened to him that was probably Foul Play and unfortunately
00:59:03
with all the key players involved all now deceased we may never know what really happened there's also the
00:59:09
possibility that there are things about this case that we haven't thought of well this is one
00:59:15
that's going to keep me up tonight absolutely because to me domestic violence is something that is often
00:59:23
behind closed doors we don't know about it but the people who are suffering they
00:59:28
have to live with it they have to suffer through it and if this was the case with
00:59:34
Deborah we have no idea how domestic violence may have shaped her future yes and real quick before we wrap up here
00:59:42
tonight Aaron I do want to mention so this episode of True Crime garage will come out just before independence day
00:59:52
and shortly after Independence day we will have the our better halves if you if you will or our equal halves I don't
01:00:02
know what we should call them but uh Justin and the captain will be doing an episode on Generation Y on the
01:00:10
Generation Y podcast yeah it's really funny uh when we had paired up before we had talked about switching hosts again
01:00:18
but then in the end it turned out that all we did was we decided to keep the same host together for the swap but then
01:00:25
release the episodes on the other podcast so yeah we're recording together again but this time our recording will
01:00:32
be on True Crime garage and then the captain and Justin their episode will be on Generation Y well and it's a really
01:00:40
fun friendship and relationship that the four of us have developed over the years
01:00:46
and it was great seeing you and Justin at crime con and it was great that somebody was brilliant enough to put our
01:00:54
two tables in close proximity to one another because we do have so many people we share a lot of listeners and
01:01:02
um you guys do a fantastic show and it's it's been been a lot of fun talking these cases over with you oh absolutely
01:01:11
and it's always a pleasure to talk with you well thanks for coming and joining me in the garage tonight Aaron you have
01:01:19
a fantastic evening yeah have a great evening Nick thank you to Aaron from the Generation Y
01:01:41
podcast for joining me via satellite for this week's show and make sure you check
01:01:45
out the Generation Y podcast this weekend because our good friend the captain joins Justin for a fantastic
01:01:52
conversation check that out and thank you to all of you out there for listening and telling a friend until
01:01:58
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