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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for [Music] details [Music] [Applause]
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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage where you are whatever you are doing thanks for
00:01:32
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that studied at the Miyagi no Karate Dojo he is the captain
00:01:40
hey must look ey always look ey it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
00:01:47
a [Music] friend today we are drinking grinder punch by the good people at sound
00:01:57
Growler Brewing Company in Tinley Park Illinois garage grade a solid four out of five bottle caps Captain it was
00:02:05
brought to my attention that I have been had easy to do each week very generous people go to True Crim garage.com and
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they donate to the Beer fund and we are very very thankful for that and those funds we do more than just purchase beer
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uh the show has some overhead cost and we use you know if there's a little extra leftover we donate money to the
00:02:26
National Center for missing and exploited children M so the beer fund is very near and dear to my heart because
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it shows the power of our garage group and so each week we give a shout out a sign of our gratitude for all of you out
00:02:41
there and we read off names and I do my best to read off the cities from all around the world but a great listener
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out there has informed me that I was played because someone had donated to our beer fund and left a name that is
00:02:54
actually some kind of white supremacy code or reference or something that I was on unaware mhm so the I'm I want to
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address this because I was unaware that we were going to have to police the beer
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fund and we will do that because I'm pretty upset about this Captain because the garage is not just a talk show we
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have always said that it is a community it's a head space it's an Escape a place
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where all who are good all who are kind and all that don't Litter are welcomed and can feel welcomed and know that they
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belong here and anti like what we are talking about do not allow everyone to feel welcome or feel as though they
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belong so we will not tolerate any of that crap here so now the other part about it too though look I don't care if
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someone gets on a blog or our Facebook page and says Nick's an idiot or I think your show is dumb you know I don't like
00:03:51
the cut of his jib because that comes with the territory you know we have a show it's open to the public and not
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everyone is going to like me or the captain or the show and that's fine but lot of haters the but the the big issue
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here for me personally is that when someone pulls a prank like this something like this this could severely
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damage or completely destroy relationships in my life my family and my friends so I wanted to just to take a
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moment here captain and apologize to everyone everybody minus one person right so donate to the Beer fund don't
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litter and don't be a piece of [ __ ] there you go we will get back to the Beer shout outs tomorrow and for now
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thank you and chear to all of the True Crime garage Army and the Beautiful People of Parts Unknown now everyone
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gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music]
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[Music] police say a gunman shot and killed five women in a robbery at a women's clothing
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store late Saturday morning the incident happened at this Lane Bryant southwest of Chicago the store is at a strip mall
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called the Brookside Marketplace authorities say the store was open when the incident happened when police
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arrived they found the victims in the back of the store Defender is described as a medium skinned male black
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5'9 230 to 260 lb he was wearing a black waist length winter coat a black knit capat and dark jeans authorities haven't
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identified the victims but say they range in age from 22 to 37 they say four were from suburban Chicago and one was
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from South Bend Indiana one resident says crime is a growing problem in the area and security needs to be beefed up
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and this could have been us and I just feel really sorry for the people's family and the victims because you know
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this could have been this could have been prevented police brought in a helicopter and dogs to search for the
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gunman but found no sign of him there was no security camera inside the lamee Bryant store but police say they're
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trying to determine if the suspect was recorded by any cameras at neighboring [Music]
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stores our true crime story this week is from a lovely place called Tinley Park Tinley Park is a village located in Cook
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County Illinois it is one of the fastest growing suburbs south of Chicago this horrific crime took place in 2008 but to
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give you a general idea of the location Tinley Park Illinois in 2007 had no murders M and only 15 robberies were
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reported in this Village the population was just over 56,000 at the 2010 census and in 2009 Tinley Park was selected by
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Business Week a u very good magazine as the best place to raise a family in America so the single best place in all
00:07:38
of America Captain oh that sounds pretty lovely in 2017 Tinley Park was listed as
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one of the 50 safest cities in America did you know that um the garage was voted number one place to do a podcast
00:07:55
in the world and Parts Unknown was number two desired place to live for the very low taxes that pay almost we we pay
00:08:04
you to live there yeah so while I feel very good about those assessments being quite accurate you know that this is a
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safe place great place to raise a family this crime may make you feel different but it is crimes like this that remind
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all of us that unfortunately these sort of things while they can be rare they can happen anywhere anywhere laye Bryant
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is at the center of this case um and it's going to be a Lane Bryant store in Tinley Park Lane Bryant is a store for
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the ladies uh according to their website Lane Bryant is the most recognized name
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in plus-size clothing and their emphasis is on fashion and fit not merely size well I just want to point out the fact
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that and the Lulu Limon case they didn't sell to plus size and now Lane Bryant they're known for plus sizes I don't
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think they sell to the petite ladies there a lot of discrimination going on in selling both ways um but they Lane
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Bryant will tell you that their emphasis on fashion and fit is what makes them a
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style leader so uh quick and interesting story history here for uh Lane Bryant the company was founded way back in 1904
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by Lena Bryant uh she made maternity clothing mainly dresses I think M Lena rented a storefront on fth Avenue the
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name Lane Bryant well the company got that name because a bank officer misspelled Lena's name on the paperwork
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the business opened its first Branch store in Chicago in 19 1915 so Lane Bryant has been deep rooted in the
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Chicago area for a long time as of 2013 the chain consisted of 8812 stores in 46
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US states only Alaska Hawaii Montana and Wyoming at that time did not have lamee
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Bryant stores in 2010 Lane Bryant accused Fox and ABC of censoring their 302 ad spot during commercial breaks for
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the Dancing with the Stars in American Idol TV shows the ads featured plus-size model Ashley Graham in their line of
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lingerie Lan Bryant accused the networks of discrimination because stating that the networks had no problem airing
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Victoria's Secret advertisements with similar similarly clad models right in the same time slots I'm a lover of all
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women of all sizes just put in that out there hey I'm a lover of Ashley Graham um so all right Lane Bryant store
00:10:51
this particular Lane Bryant store that we are discussing today is located in the Great Village of Tinley Park at the
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Brookside Marketplace which was built in 2005 Lan Bryant there were there were probably what about six or seven lamee
00:11:06
Bryant stores in the Greater Columbus area around us somewhere I don't know I never go shopping but it's pretty much
00:11:12
like a big box store right yeah so smaller than a Target but still a decent size store yeah you normally find him in
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a mall or a strip mall so this particular one is a 23,000 squ ft store now back in 2008 Brookside Marketplace
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included some storefronts that were not open yet this making the Lane Bryant store more ice isolated MH the strip
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mall skirts a major section of Interstate 80 uh the belt of America and it also has a holiday in and a sleep in
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nearby so hotels nearby hotel motel holiday in no houses are in immediate in the immediate area and a few apartment
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buildings are about a half a mile away okay so this brings us Captain to Saturday February 2nd 2008 which was a
00:12:07
very cold day the ground was frozen and snow covered yeah it was actually the day before the Super Bowl yes it was
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Captain we have uh 42-year-old Roa McFarland she went to work on this Saturday but she was not scheduled to
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work uh she was the store manager at the Lane Bryant store now she knew that her
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employees would be stretched on that Saturday after the corporate office mailed customers Flyers promoting a big
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$9.99 clearance sale now I'm not I don't know much about the Lane Bryant store but from what I understand it's some of
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the items can be more expensive and so this is a pretty good deal for everybody this will draw in the customers on a on
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a busy Saturday everybody's going to line up to get some good deals did you say $9.99 that's right so rather than
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then she's a she's a team player uh this store manager Roda she rather than force
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her staff to go to loan she decides to pitch in and go in that day now the Lane Bryant store opened its doors for
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business at 10:00 a.m. the crime began to unfold shortly after at 10:08 a man entered the store and engaged the clerk
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asking her questions about a delivery he carried with him some type of papers that he stated were related to the
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delivery that he was attempting to make at this store now this man was wearing a
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dark colored below the- waist length winter coat as he entered the Lane Bryant store it is reported that he
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looked toward the ceiling and this is believed that he was looking for cameras he chatted briefly with Roa McFarland
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the store manager he also talk to another person that we will refer to as the witness uh we don't use her real
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name we don't know her real name but she is called Martha and we're not using her
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name because the police don't use her name right she's only referred to as Martha so that's what we we will have to
00:14:09
call her here so the man spoke to both of these ladies regarding this delivery well this this was a ruse um he was not
00:14:18
there to make some kind of delivery this was used to engage somebody with inside
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the store I'm a little confused why he would use this and some kind of ttic but we're going to see where it goes from
00:14:32
there okay SOA the manager she decides to try to help out so she calls another store location to see if there was some
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kind of mixup with the delivery because she's telling the guy we don't have any delivery scheduled right so maybe this
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delivery was supposed to go to another store anyway during this time two customers entered the store it is at
00:14:55
this time the police would later say that the man then pulled out a gun and announced a holdup he forced the four
00:15:04
women into the back room this was a small employee B break room he forced the women to tape each other's hands and
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then he bound the remaining women uh or woman himself after binding them he told
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them to lay face down on the floor then two more women who who later entered the
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store they were also taken to the back room they were bound and placed next to the others now the order so we have four
00:15:34
customers at this time right everybody's been taken hostage the order of which the customers came in is unknown it is
00:15:43
known that Connie wol Fork uh was a fighter and at some point during this holdup she had a physical altercation
00:15:52
with the suspect she was struck in the face with what is believed to have been the butt of the gun that the man had
00:15:59
brought with him she also had blood under her fingernails which is believed to have come from the suspect so she
00:16:06
fought this guy at some point right this man also took some of the store's clothing and placed it over the heads of
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some of the women now I want to be clear here on this statement because I've this
00:16:17
has been reported multiple ways from multiple sources and several of the sources
00:16:25
suggest that all of the women had their heads covered with with clothing items some suggest that it was just a few of
00:16:31
the women um and also one report a couple reports state that women's panties were used to cover their heads
00:16:40
now while this might not seem important I think that it is somewhat important because we are going to be relying on
00:16:48
some witness statements to have conclusions and thoughts about this suspect and we will have to use our own
00:16:56
opinions to determine how much weight to apply to those witness statements later
00:17:03
so apparently one of the victims um one of the ladies that was bound was the was
00:17:08
a target of sexual advances by the suspect during the time that he had them taken hostage it is stated that she was
00:17:17
fondled there was that's not sexual advances that's that's assault right sexual assault I I I apologize I'm
00:17:25
reporting it as it as it was well whoever reported it is a toll bag um there there were no further sexual
00:17:32
content or contact from suspect to any of the other victims beyond that point now store manager Roa McFarland somehow
00:17:42
she managed to call 911 she had her cell phone Bluetooth yeah she calls 911 at 10:44 a.m. and I want everybody to kind
00:17:51
of Mark that time in their in their heads here because remember we're saying that the man entered the store at
00:17:57
approximately 10:08 so he's been in the store for quite some time all right 10:08 he
00:18:04
enters at 1044 there's a 911 call and he's still on the store at this time now Roa she managed to to make this call
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while the gun man was distracted MH uh even though she was bound with tape on the call which is posted on the Tinley
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Park Police website um so very very brave Roa McFarland calls to notify 911 of the robbery in progress the the 911
00:18:32
dispatcher picks up and at this point Rus says Lane Bryant she Whispers it to the uh dispatcher and the dispatcher ask
00:18:41
where at and she states Tinley Park please hurry let's take a listen to that 911 call 911
00:18:50
emergency we at stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang up
00:18:59
It is believed that the suspect heard the dispatcher's voice over Roa McFarland's Bluetooth the police were
00:19:07
dispatched a Tinley Park police officer was in an adjacent parking lot at the time of the 911 call it is approximated
00:19:16
that he was about 20 I'm sorry 200 yard away mhm so police arrived on the scene very quickly and it is reported that the
00:19:25
first officer arrived only about 2 minutes after the short 911 call now the the witness that we are calling Martha
00:19:33
she has stated that she believes she heard police sirens before the shooting started so this is at approximately
00:19:42
10:46 a.m. so all six women at this point at 10:46 a.m. were shot execution style Roa McFarland was the only one
00:19:53
shot in the forehead the rest in the back of their heads the man then wed walked out the front door and
00:20:00
disappeared five of the ladies were dead when police arrived and as we said only
00:20:06
a couple minutes from the beginning of McFarland's 911 call one woman survived this is who we are we are call calling
00:20:15
Martha right she too had been shot and left for dead but she tricked the Killer by moving her head at the last second
00:20:23
causing a severe graze in her neck she then pretended to be dead until police arrived a black SUV as well as a black
00:20:33
sedan were seen on video leaving the Lane Bryant parking lot at approximately 10:48 a.m. so all of this happened
00:20:42
within a time span of about 40 minutes the suspect arrives at the Lane Bryant store at approximately 10:08 M the call
00:20:51
to 911 is placed at 10:44 shots are fired at approximately 10:46 and the suspect left the seen at approximately
00:21:04
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00:23:28
newspapers went to the doorsteps in news stands the following morning the Sunday
00:23:33
Chicago Tribune LED with the headline five women slain in store police hunt gunman and shooting at Tinley Park Mall
00:23:41
the article reads A gunman LED women into the back of a clothing store Saturday morning killed them then walked
00:23:49
out the front door and disappeared police said there were no survivors at the Lane Bryant store in a Suburban
00:23:55
strip mall along interstate highway weigh 80 and what they are calling a boted robbery still with little
00:24:02
information made public conflicting reports and rumors about motives and Witnesses swirled throughout the day
00:24:09
yeah officers from at least eight local departments quickly descended on the shopping center some went from door too
00:24:17
combing stores for Clues others hunted in a nearby subdivision for a stocky man described by one witness while
00:24:25
helicopters hovered in the sky one Helicopter Armed with an infrared camera scanned snow covered open land and
00:24:34
forest preserves police pleaded for help from anyone with information on the killing spree as night fell the gunman
00:24:43
remained on the loose Tinley Park police chief Michael oconnell tried to calm fear saying we are very confident that
00:24:51
the offender is out of the area but earlier in the day an officer at the scene admitted we have no idea who he is
00:25:00
the gunman was still at large late Saturday do they have any evidence of what he took or did he take anything
00:25:07
let's get into that but I want to kind of clarify some things I found that that article to be very interesting this is
00:25:13
what the the locals are hearing these are the reports they're hearing and reading just the day after and I thought
00:25:20
we should comb through that because there's one very important detail here and that is that the the police police
00:25:28
are stating that there were no survivors that five women were taken hostage they
00:25:33
were all shot and killed before the man left the store the reason for this this is not any confusion on anyone's part
00:25:42
this is simply to protect the living witness they did not want the offender to be aware that there was a Survivor
00:25:52
right they didn't want this person to know that there is still a person alive from the scene that could identify them
00:25:59
and that he might I mean we have to keep this in mind whether he went into the store with intending to kill anyone at
00:26:07
all we don't know right but at the end of the day what he did do what this person did do is murder five people very
00:26:14
capable of looking for this woman finding her and killing her we wouldn't even know at this point in the
00:26:22
investigation if he would have known who she was yeah I mean there could be ties
00:26:27
from the suspect to one or more of the victims or I mean is is she being kept in a hospital for observation for days
00:26:35
on end you know we've we've all seen the the mob movies where there's somebody that survived something and they're a
00:26:41
living witness and they got to put put the police officers by their door because we could get some mobster dude
00:26:48
coming in the middle of the night and take this person out but on the other side of things you could say there was a
00:26:54
Survivor and if this was just a robber that went bad in this person snap that could force the hand of this individual
00:27:02
to turn himself in mhm like oh somebody survived I'm going to get caught let me turn myself in well let's take a look
00:27:09
real quick captain at the key players in this whole crime let's talk about some let's talk about the victims as well as
00:27:17
what they may know about the suspect so there were five women killed one wounded
00:27:23
uh she was treated that you know the wounded one would go on to be known as Martha she would be treated at St James
00:27:29
hospital in Olympia Fields and she was released on Sunday so she was in the hospital for approximately 24 hours
00:27:37
right uh currently it's my understanding that this living witness uh is living out of the area now um but she stays in
00:27:48
close phone contact with police investigators and she's been extremely cooperative and she is there for them
00:27:56
whenever they need to to ask questions of her so one of the victims that we've already mentioned by name was Roa
00:28:03
McFarland mhm age 42 she was the manager of the Lane Bryant store in Tinley Park
00:28:09
she had been there for two years she was a US Air Force veteran uh she worked as
00:28:15
a nurse at Andrew's Air Force Base Roa served as an associate pastor at Embassy Christian Center she began working at
00:28:25
Lane Bryant after her PR Hill Church had closed she started a program at her church called Princess this program
00:28:33
teaches girls proper etiquette and guides them to help them grow to be young productive women she was planning
00:28:41
on expanding this program and expanding it to other churches um in in the area as well in other areas as well right she
00:28:50
went to work that Saturday was but was not scheduled to work as we had already said now Roa was engag engaged over the
00:28:58
holidays of 2007 to a man named Stuart Gibbs she continued to answer her Christian calling at the Lane Bryant
00:29:05
store often often using her employee discount to buy clothes for people who are less fortunate she is the only
00:29:14
victim that was shot in the forehead this is believed that the Killer caught her on the phone talking to 911 and when
00:29:22
he confronted her that's when he shot her in the forehead and another one of the victims is Jenny L Bishop yeah Jenny
00:29:28
was 34 at the time of this crime she was from South Bend and she was a customer at the Lane Bryant she was married to
00:29:36
Brian Bishop and they had three young children she graduated from Indiana University with a Bachelor of Science in
00:29:43
nursing in 1996 she had been employed by Memorial hospital since 1995 she worked in the
00:29:51
Intensive Care Unit fellow nurses described her as a compassionate caring knowledgeable an efficient worker well
00:29:59
she's a nurse so you know she was a badass relatives of Jenny Bishop believe that she may have gone to the Lyn Bryant
00:30:07
store that day to cash in a birthday gift card yeah the Lane Bryant yeah she had celebrated her 34th birthday just 5
00:30:16
days prior to the crime her husband was in the area for business and she was out
00:30:22
while he was working our next victim is Sarah zansky she's 22 years old at the time of the crime from Oak Forest she
00:30:31
was a customer as well the future looked promising for Sarah because in May of 2007 she had graduated from Northern
00:30:39
Illinois University with a degree in finance and had a job already lined up at CNA financial courp and this is in
00:30:47
Chicago she went to the Lane Bryant store that day because she needed work cloes for her first postc col job right
00:30:55
now later after life a a park bench in Oak Force Bears her name she was the youngest of the five murdered victims
00:31:04
just 22 years old now scholarships were also awarded in her name Connie woolfork
00:31:11
uh was one that we had mentioned by name as well she was 37 at the time of Flossmore she was a customer as well at
00:31:19
the store that day she was a single mother of two sons ages 16 and 10 her youngest child suffers from spinoid
00:31:27
and requires much of his mother's time and attention for seven years she served the village of Park Forest in a variety
00:31:35
of positions working in the finance and Community Development departments she left her job with the village in
00:31:42
December of 2006 this to pursue a Family Mortgage business with her mother Connie
00:31:49
worked as a mortgage lender lived with her mother and two sons to help make ends meet in the troubled housing market
00:31:57
she took a second job stocking shelves overnight at the Super Target in the same Tinley Park Shopping Center she was
00:32:05
treating herself to a manicure and pedicure on that Saturday and some shopping at Lane Bryant to buy a new
00:32:12
outfit when she didn't show up for a scheduled meeting with a client at 2: p.m. her family grew increasingly
00:32:20
worried her family said that she was a fighter and would not have gone along without a fight it is reported that she
00:32:27
had bruising and blood under her fingernails that might have been from the suspect the bruising as we said is
00:32:35
thought to be from being struck in the head with the gun we also have Carrie chusu she's 33 years old of Frankfurt
00:32:44
she was a customer Carrie was a social worker at her school um Homewood Flossmore high school that my friends
00:32:53
social worker at a high school is an extremely tough and difficult job I don't know this particular high school
00:33:00
but I know two ladies that work in these very same capacities and let me tell you
00:33:05
friends that is no walk in the park now Carrie and her husband married a year and a half before the murders her
00:33:12
husband was waiting for her to return home from a quick shopping trip to the Lane Bryant clothing store when he saw
00:33:19
the news reports on TV and he actually recognized her car parked in front of the store on the news coverage you want
00:33:27
to talk about sick feeling yeah after Tony saw his wife's car in the news reports he left their home and he went
00:33:35
to the Tinley Park police station there he was what he was suspecting was confirmed that she was one of the
00:33:43
victims now the day after Carrie died her brother's wife went into labor uh they had a little girl who they named
00:33:52
they named her Carrie M uh car's current and former students p act into the what
00:33:59
ended up being a 7-hour wake for Carrie in in Memorial of her life Martha as we said not her real name she was the
00:34:09
surviving victim she was 30 she was 33 years old at the time a part-time employee at the Lane Bryant store she
00:34:17
was shot along with the rest but the bullet went into her neck missing vital organs she was enrolled in nursing
00:34:25
school and working two jobs to make ends me recently divorced she stated that she
00:34:31
had heard the police sirens prior to the shooting started so what do we know about this suspect well the killer was
00:34:38
not wearing a mask or disguise he was described as 6 foot tall I I do want to kind of add to that though a little bit
00:34:46
because I've read and watched news reports yeah that will state that he could have been as short as I believe 59
00:34:56
yeah yeah um which pretty short for a male or he could have been as tall as 6'2 now I want to throw this in there
00:35:06
though the overwhelming majority of these stories say that the man was 6 foot tall that he was approximately six
00:35:14
foot tall yeah but don't they also say he was stocky yeah so it's an he's an African-American male of average weight
00:35:22
um he the police have described him as stocky but also average weight see that doesn't make any sense to me well they
00:35:29
state that they believe he's between 2 and 220 lb right but at six foot tall I wouldn't call somebody stocky he's also
00:35:39
described as a medium to dark skin tone with braided hair with three to five poofy
00:35:48
cornrows pulled toward the back of his head one braid hung down the right cheek and had four light green beads on the
00:35:56
the end this man is believed to have been between the ages of 25 and 35 years old at the time of the murders now the
00:36:06
suspect this is where we might have a little issue with his weight Captain the suspect was wearing a dark colored
00:36:13
waistlength jacket or coat right now we did say it was very cold that day the ground was frozen snow covered depending
00:36:20
on the the the poofiness or the bulk of this coat that could change the perception of his weight yeah my jacket
00:36:27
makes me look a little fluffy there are some reports out there that state that he was seen having a roll of duct tape
00:36:34
in one of the pockets of this coat mhm the suspect was also wearing black jeans with an embroidery on the back pocket
00:36:44
similar to a cursive G now one possibility here Captain is that he was wearing gunit clothing the gunit
00:36:52
clothing company was established in 2003 this is because of 50 Cent and and you know he teamed up with Mark Ekko to
00:37:00
create this line of clothing and accessories inspired by 50 Cent and fellow G Unit members these jeans have a
00:37:09
cursive G on the pocket right so possibly wearing this line of clothing now the suspect was also wearing a
00:37:18
charcoal gray or dark ski skull cap on his head a couple of websites mentioned that he had possibly left behind a
00:37:28
baseball hat at the scene of the crime the Survivor said the killer may have had professionally manicured
00:37:35
fingernails this is only mentioned once so you know I I I actually hesitated to even put this in the report but on
00:37:44
airing on the side of full disclosure throw it in there and and let people make what they want of it now police
00:37:52
have released a composite sketch based on the witness's description the weapon that he used is a Smith and Wesson Glock
00:38:01
the gunman took a few hundred according to police there were two vehicles seen leaving the area shortly after the
00:38:10
shooting this was a black SUV and a black sedan now police have said that they have fingernail clippings remember
00:38:19
we said that one of the victims had it's believed that she had blood underneath her fingernails
00:38:27
remember we also stated that the man came in with papers that are supposed to be part of this delivery that he was
00:38:33
making uh maybe instructions or some type of invoice something like that uh it's believed that the police have these
00:38:41
papers that he left them at the scene of the crime possibly touch DNA on those correct correct so that's what we know
00:38:49
for certain on the suspect do you think this is just a robbery turn murder well that seems to be the strongest Theory or
00:39:00
motive that's out there because this is a very strange crime Captain when you when you really think of the Simplicity
00:39:06
of it where you have so many people being killed so many murdered victims and yet you have almost a robbery
00:39:14
situation that doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at it and I know that there are probably details of this
00:39:20
crime that have just not been made public and therefore we are only working with part of the story but yes I would
00:39:28
say that probably the strongest or most popular Theory regarding this crime out there is that the thought is it was a
00:39:35
simple robbery that turned violent um so a botched robbery in which the offender
00:39:41
made off with very little cash in the course of the robbery he figures out that one of the ladies had called 911
00:39:48
and he panics and shoots all of them yeah within a couple minutes yeah and what I mean I understand saying that
00:39:56
this is the most likely Theory but you're robbing a store at the beginning of the workday the store opens at 10:00
00:40:06
you enter the store at 80 or 10:08 sorry you know you're out of the store within
00:40:13
45 minutes you take a couple hundred dollars I mean you're going to rob a store where
00:40:21
most people understand that there's a night drop done for all these stores and a lot of these stores especially like
00:40:27
Elaine Bryant these are credit card-based stores and and now most stores don't carry a lot of cash on
00:40:34
them so you see what I'm saying like it's no no no I I follow you and that's why I feel like this is a crime that
00:40:40
doesn't make a lot of sense right and and and and here's where I go with that my thought is that I what I can see from
00:40:48
what we know from the living Witnesses statements right is that we are probably working and talking about a very
00:40:55
unorganized Defender here and I see where this guy may have had some type of plan whether whether it all makes sense
00:41:04
to us may not be the case right we don't know what kind of Rhyme or Reason this dude's working with first of all and
00:41:11
then second of all it appears to me like he lost control of the situation fairly
00:41:17
quickly and when things weren't going his way he's not intelligent enough to work
00:41:24
through the problem to problem solve on the spot in the end his only result the only thing he can come up with is to
00:41:31
kill everybody and leave um so so let's let's go through this first Theory here okay because you bring up some good
00:41:38
points so if this was to be a robbery why would somebody choose a store like lay Bryant or any kind of clothing store
00:41:47
at all to Rob Early on a Saturday right so I my first thought there would be that we have a guy that is looking for
00:41:57
what he would perceive to be a soft target an easy target yeah chances are the employees are going to be female
00:42:05
chances are the customers are going to be female and by choosing early morning hours you may have less people in the
00:42:13
store to have to deal with yeah because we as we mentioned this is a 23,000 ft store it could be tough it could be
00:42:21
tough to Corral everybody and manage the scene just given the B of this place I mean people can hide fairly easily in a
00:42:30
23,000 ft building but that also might be to your point that this suspect is not thinking things clearly and so he's
00:42:39
going to rob a place that one is not going to have a lot of cash on it and it's a big building mhm now when we say
00:42:46
that a soft target that that uh potential victims or people being in the store would all be female or most likely
00:42:52
to be female let's be clear here we're using we're trying to use the criminals thought process here trying to use the
00:42:59
suspects thought process here and we don't know that for certainty but the guess would be that that may have put
00:43:07
some kind of put him at ease in some way that there was a reason for picking this
00:43:11
particular store that is really the only thing that stands out to me or is could
00:43:18
it be that this man believes that okay they're they're not selling lowline stuff right you know maybe there's some
00:43:27
more money in this store than would be in some of the other stores because they're you know more expensive items
00:43:34
right so a soft target 2 should be secluded in some way um from from busy areas and we know the Lane Bryant store
00:43:44
was away from the rest of the businesses and it's in a strip mall that was not fully rented out at the time yeah also
00:43:53
an easy target should have an easy Escape r route the Lane Bryant is just minutes from Interstate 80 this is a
00:44:00
huge uh freeway that that starts in New Jersey and ends in California we had mentioned that the timing is a little
00:44:07
weird um but for the sake of wanting an easy target the timing is great so he walks into the store that just opened
00:44:16
its doors 8 minutes prior less likely to encounter a large number of customers but if it's the money that you're after
00:44:24
Why not pick a bank or a g gas station right yeah well we have the the surviving witness's account the killer
00:44:32
according to her the killer walked in and was looking up at the ceiling and it's believed he was possibly looking
00:44:38
for cameras now my thought here is that this man knows that Banks and gas stations because of their high
00:44:44
probability of getting robbed will be outfitted with cameras yeah multiple cameras so when he went into the store
00:44:53
he has he's technically committed zero infra actions against the law at this point right so if he walks in and he's
00:45:00
never been in this store before and he's looking up and he sees cameras he can simply just turn around and walk out and
00:45:06
go pick another Target at this time well he is wearing gunit pants so I think that is a
00:45:12
crime um there's there are some drawbacks to this Theory and you've mentioned a couple of them Captain but I
00:45:18
kind of want to go through my laundry list here so we don't leave any out as long as it doesn't include any gunit
00:45:24
pants I'm okay with your laundry list so as you mentioned how much money would there be in a register that that's you
00:45:31
know they just opened up the store 8 minutes prior okay um I don't know well here's the other thing too in
00:45:41
a couple of accounts they state that the guy may have robbed the women too uhhuh
00:45:47
so most of the material out there does not State this but this could this could be possible maybe even likely you know
00:45:55
he had had the ladies bound and if he felt in control of the situation he gets the cash from the register and from the
00:46:02
office and finds out it's not that much money he decides to rob the ladies as well I mean as well yes it's it's it's
00:46:11
reminiscent of that conversation in the diner scene in Pulp Fiction when the couple is getting ready to rob the diner
00:46:18
and they're talking about what their plan is and their last Heist and they say that they both agree that it was a
00:46:24
good idea that robbed both the business and the customers in the last Heist because they they doubled their
00:46:32
take yeah but again not very well thought out cuz how many people are carrying cash well I
00:46:40
I'm just stating this could be a possibility After he finds out he's not got much money at this point I agree so
00:46:47
and and keep in mind the killer was in the store for approximately 40 minutes this gives him enough time to rob the
00:46:53
ladies as well now I do want Wonder here one thing that I one thing that I wish that we had here is a lot more
00:47:02
information I think there was probably a lot of stuff that went down in that store over the course of the 40 minutes
00:47:09
what at what time did he draw his gun is a big question for me I would love to know what time the store manager called
00:47:17
the other store to inquire about the delivery that he was pretending to do so let's say that this theory is right that
00:47:24
this is correct this would lead me to believe and I'm sure that the police have looked into
00:47:29
this and I if not I don't understand why they wouldn't have but um then we need to get new police officers yeah my
00:47:37
thought would be just food for thought here Captain potentially this guy might have some experience in doing this and
00:47:44
what I mean by this is maybe the plan doesn't seem so bad when you work it over the course of
00:47:51
many different stores I mean it only didn't work out in this situation is what I'm getting getting at because
00:47:56
here's the thought the suspect may have hit what he perceives to be soft targets
00:48:01
before and he's hitting them early in the morning for a good reason maybe he's only looking to get a few hundred let's
00:48:09
say $200 whatever is in the register right now why would he do this the thought is that he would bring he brings
00:48:16
a gun into the store with him but probably most of the time he never even needs to draw the weapon to make the
00:48:24
threat he just goes up threatens the person at the register or speaks to somebody in the store tells them it's
00:48:31
going to be a robbery and he makes off with $200 now keep in mind if he doesn't pull a gun a $200 unarmed robbery will
00:48:41
go away pretty fast in most police jurisdictions M well and if you did this at the bank it's a federal offense
00:48:49
second of all if you if you mention that there's a gun mhm then it's arm robbery
00:48:55
so it doesn't matter if you show your gun or not an implied threat of a firearm is the same as having a fire
00:49:01
chances are that these registers are not going to have bait money or die packs that's what a bank would have you know
00:49:09
the die packs are normally within like a football field or so they just blow up and they turn everything blue they Smurf
00:49:17
your ass um so yes I agree that this plan doesn't seem so dumb except for the fact that you're going into a store
00:49:30
showing your face and yes less likely that there's going to be there's going to be less
00:49:36
cameras than a bank but there's still going to be cameras but now you have all these eyewitnesses that see your face so
00:49:44
I still think it's a really horrible plan but I I think that he manages to get out of the store and there are no
00:49:50
cameras to take footage of him well we have cameras seeing cars leave right those are from another store right so
00:49:58
all right let's get into let's go to Theory two real quick all right this is a very similar theory in the sense that
00:50:04
it's robbery but possibly an inside job meaning our offender the killer had inside help maybe an assistant manager
00:50:12
or former manager or former employee correct right so I'll break this down real quick Inside Job meaning that this
00:50:19
robbery was set up with the help of a current employee or former employee of this particular l Bryant store or maybe
00:50:27
even another Lane Bryant store these would be the only so one thing that I'm curious about here with the money we
00:50:36
know that a few I'll call you whiskers a few hundred was taken in this robbery I
00:50:41
would love to know did this come from the safe did it come from the register did it come from a combination of both
00:50:47
also robbing the the uh customers as well where did this money come from because one thing here is that current
00:50:56
managers current assistant managers or previous managers and assistant managers are likely to be the only people with
00:51:04
the safe combination so if money was taken from the safe he accessed that safe in some form or fashion whether it
00:51:12
be through the employees that were at the Lane Bryant that day or he walked in there with prior knowledge of the store
00:51:20
right now where I worked before there was a safe but all it had was the drawers that we used so there was no
00:51:28
extra funds it was just whatever's in those drawers mhm so again if even if you just got the one drawer and then you
00:51:36
open up the safe so I can get the next drawer I would one assume that he would get more than a few hundred if he could
00:51:43
get to both drawers so again that would be information that I don't know if it would help the investigation but again I
00:51:52
mean this crime is now 10 years old I think at some point try to get the public involved I mean that's one of the
00:51:59
reasons why we're covering the case to shine some light on it and get people talking about this so if this in fact
00:52:05
were the correct Theory here uh the correct motive let this is kind of how I see it it playing out okay so the inside
00:52:16
person the accomplice that this man had that this killer had failed to show up to the store for whatever reason that
00:52:24
day you know the inside accompl got cold feed or whatever decided not to show this leaving the suspect stuck with six
00:52:31
women who he thought could identify him he walks in there without any type of Disguise maybe he doesn't he doesn't
00:52:40
Discover that his helper that his accomplice is not there until after he's drawn the gun and already told everybody
00:52:47
that there's going to be a holdup so as the suspect is is waiting he had to control the workers and the customers
00:52:54
and as time went on at the scene he starts to lose control of the scene and once he hears the 911 operator on
00:53:03
McFarland's phone he knew that the robbery was a total bust except for the register money and then the suspect
00:53:10
hears the sirens in the distance and in a moment of anger or Panic or both he killed the women and fled the scene mm I
00:53:18
I think this could be a strong Theory the only reason why I I really question the weight of this theory is like what
00:53:27
you for what you just said 10 years has passed okay and this theory is easily investigated and we know from detectives
00:53:36
that we know here in Columbus and in the Greater Columbus area that this is often
00:53:41
the theory that they look at first when they start looking into these crimes can
00:53:45
we tie anybody that's working there previous employees to this criminal act whether it just be the theft robbery or
00:53:53
what went down here so in exploring this possibility here's some more information
00:53:59
and this is what I was able to gather from an assistant manager of a Lane Bryant store and it it is a stating this
00:54:08
person told me that it is store policy it was then and is currently store policy to have a manager or an assistant
00:54:16
manager open the store along with a regular employee right which we kind of learned from the Lululemon case it is
00:54:23
also a policy to drop off the previous day's proceeds at the bank in the morning before the store opened so this
00:54:33
has been one thing that's highly contested so I all I can go off of is what this person told me I've never
00:54:39
worked a day in my life at Lane Bryant you haven't worked a day in your life I filled out two applications they didn't
00:54:45
even call me for an interview or anything for Lane Bryant yeah oh I'm I'm joking oh I was going to say it's cuz
00:54:51
you have a fascination with their spokes model so just to be clear on that all the
00:54:58
money taken in the day before is then counted the next morning and dropped off at the bank before they open for
00:55:07
business on that day pretty clear yeah so if you get there early enough you get the drop according to this person the
00:55:16
assistant manager and the manager are the only two that had the safe combination so if like you said if this
00:55:26
person could have got to the store before they open their doors there's a chance at that time the safe would have
00:55:32
been open money is out and being counted by each employee um and during this time
00:55:38
once the money's counted they sign off on it and here's my thought any chance this guy didn't do much homework and
00:55:47
thought the store was opening at 11 because that's where that's where you start to wonder about the delivery he
00:55:54
seemed to have a ruse to want to get in the St now you don't need a ruse to get into the store and ass the situation
00:56:02
when the doors are open anybody can just walk in you just go in and act like you're shopping yeah yeah but this guy
00:56:08
had uh what he a fake delivery that he was planning on doing yeah but I think to me the the fake delivery is more of a
00:56:18
setup to for him to get into the building and for him to be looking around and kind of case casing the joint
00:56:27
with this ruse and also I think with this Insider job idea right that it's an Insider job I also think that there's a
00:56:37
lot of there's High turnover rate in these retail stores and you're talking about normally a lot of different ages
00:56:45
you know when I worked at pacon there was a lot of people uh in their late teens early 20s and then you had other
00:56:52
people in their mid-30s so you got this pretty decent range and it could have just been somebody drinking at a party
00:56:59
saying well I used to work there and blah blah blah you see what I'm saying right I get you and and telling about
00:57:05
the workings of of the store right you or this guy dated some girl that worked at Lane Bryant two years ago I mean he
00:57:13
could have some kind of Insider knowledge on some different level well where the this is where I have a big
00:57:20
issue with this whole story is that we have if if he in fact had Insider knowledge of the intricate workings of
00:57:28
the lame Bryant store or if he was working with an accomplice remember we were stating that according to this
00:57:34
person that we spoke to that the money is counted in the morning and then taken to the bank that day and this is done by
00:57:42
a an assistant manager or a manager and the store is opened by a manager or assistant manager and another employee
00:57:50
right the the thing that I have a big question mark on here is and it makes this whole thing very curious to me is
00:57:58
that Roa McFarland the store manager she was not it's general knowledge that she
00:58:04
was not scheduled to work that day and according to newspaper accounts she was ends up being the only manager that we
00:58:11
can get the name of of being in the store that day right so what could have happened though
00:58:16
is that a manager gets sick assistant manager somebody gets sick something happens they have to call off work and
00:58:24
she had to come in of course no I I understand how that works I'm saying what makes it weird is that either
00:58:32
that's just a coincidence or this happened on this day for a reason right and so the questions here are some some
00:58:40
questions that were likely asked by the investigators and hopefully they receive
00:58:46
satisfactory answers to help clear suspects or potential suspects in this case so one was there an assistant
00:58:55
manager scheduled to work on the morning of February 2nd 2008 and if so where was
00:59:02
he or she and what was the reason for them not being at the store two did the money from the previous day get dropped
00:59:10
at the bank on the day of the shooting if so did the bank have any cameras that they could see if the
00:59:19
people making the money drop were followed to or from the bank yeah number three could an ex-employee or an
00:59:26
assistant manager have promised a large payout from a safe and then changed their mind and failed to show up to
00:59:33
assist this offender yeah next question I would have would be have Lane Bryant employees or ex-employees um from other
00:59:41
locations been investigated thought here too a little bit going deeper into this going back a
00:59:47
little bit the Lane Bryant store was open this particular store was open prior to Roa McFarland having taken over
00:59:55
as a manager so who was the prior manager and was the combination to the safe changed when management changed
01:00:04
yeah sometimes those safes just change randomly yeah and who and who's in charge of save changing the safe
01:00:11
combination is that something that they send somebody in from corporate to do that or is that just going making a
01:00:17
phone call and stating well now you have to change the combination here's the old
01:00:21
one um you know is that left up to that particular store what's the protocol on that and then
01:00:27
here's another question that I would have regarding the safe combination are the safe combinations different per
01:00:33
location or are they similar enough to figure out a different stores combination now that seems like a weird
01:00:41
question right no there most of these but it doesn't does it when people who have worked retail or worked where there
01:00:47
are safes especially in franchises or chains they understand that that question is not that strange of a of a
01:00:55
thought right I think it's strange the reason why is cuz most of those people hire security companies to help them do
01:01:01
this stuff so the security companies are not going to have branches in similar locations to have combinations that are
01:01:09
even remotely close that's my guess I mean and that's just from my experience with Banking and how many times we had
01:01:16
to change combinations to everything to the main Vault to the teller Vault to individual vaults on our teller stations
01:01:26
and in the back room and so I'm guessing that Lane Bryant being such a big store
01:01:31
what you say 800 and some stores yeah 800 some stores as of 2013 they're going to have some security company that's
01:01:38
kind of monitoring all that stuff they're going to pay somebody to to monitor that I agree I could be wrong I
01:01:45
agree but let me throw this at you and and I know you're speaking on experience but you're speaking from your experience
01:01:50
having worked in a bank now I know you worked retail at some point as well I don't know if you had any Insider
01:01:57
knowledge of how they did the the safes there at the retail what I was telling you at the well I think it was just a
01:02:04
key but I was telling you during the break I I believe our safe uh at Pon you could have just picked up and walked out
01:02:10
with like it wasn't like I don't even think it was attached to a wall or anything because a strong person could
01:02:17
carry it out of the store yeah and this would have been 2001 when I worked there
01:02:21
so we're talking about a long time ago there was there was barely any cash ever in that store if somebody when it came
01:02:30
in to Rob us it's like here's your couple hundred bucks have a nice day I worked retail very briefly and I was
01:02:37
such a low-level employee I had no knowledge of anything I I went in there and worked for fun twice a week
01:02:43
basically um I worked for fun well I mean they paid me but it was just kind of a a fun job that I took but however I
01:02:50
did work as a uh manager at a gas station and a manager at a pizza shop now we had pretty at both places we had
01:02:59
pretty Loosey Goosey rules as far as how we conducted business I will say this at
01:03:05
at the yeah but this was what 1976 no no no no would have been like 99 2000 so I will say this the one the gas
01:03:16
station that I worked for is a major chain I'm not going to say what n what the brand is because I don't want people
01:03:21
to know this well we don't want people looking down on that brand for hiring you at the location that I worked we had
01:03:29
a four-digit combination to the safe MH and the reason why I posed this question
01:03:35
of could an employee of another store have some general knowledge of how this store works and I don't think that's
01:03:41
far-fetched even as much so as a possible combination idea for the safe and I bring this up because of my
01:03:49
experience there so our we had a store number a four-digit store number which is is not easily known to the general
01:03:56
public it had nothing to do with our street address it wasn't posted anywhere on the outside of the store on the
01:04:03
inside of the store it was something that usually only the managers would know uh most the employees were unaware
01:04:11
of our store number however I will say this and and I only know this and maybe it didn't work this way at every
01:04:19
location but at the time that I worked at this gas station our combination our four-digit combination to our safe was
01:04:27
the store number that's stupid well no it is stupid it it it's very stupid but it's
01:04:36
also not it's not crazy it's not out of the realm of possibility that this type of thing was going on on other places MH
01:04:45
um but again all we have to know is how much money did he get and I'm sure that the law enforcement is well aware
01:04:54
of where he got the money from who he got the money from so this is a question that they could obviously answer Captain
01:05:02
before we move on to I have a a bit of an outside the box Theory here but before we move out of talking about
01:05:09
robbery that turned into a got turned violent and turned into murder right there's another theory out there that's
01:05:17
that I find to be very interesting and the theory is to simplify ity it is an out of Town offender meets an outof Town
01:05:27
murdered witness and what I mean by that is remember we mentioned earlier that Jenny Bishop she was from out of town
01:05:35
she was in town with her husband that was there on work and Jenny was going shopping while her husband was out
01:05:43
working that day mhm is there is there a chance and this is just food for thought
01:05:50
that the offender that the the man that went into Rob the Lane Bryant store could he have been staying at one of
01:05:57
those local hotels where she was staying and they they had seen each other prior
01:06:04
to the robbery he gets in in there in the back room and now he's got a customer that he recognizes her face he
01:06:13
doesn't know her name but if he recognizes her as having stayed at the same hotel as he had the night before he
01:06:21
would probably assume that she might be able to say hey that guy that took off with the money out of here he was
01:06:27
staying at the blah blah blah hotel last night possibly I I I do believe that the
01:06:32
suspect was triggered by the 911 call because once that call happened you know five murders within minutes yeah that's
01:06:40
when the shooting starts so I I find this Theory intriguing and and I find it to be very interesting and it makes me
01:06:48
kind of think about other possibilities here I would believe that the that a lot
01:06:54
of time was spent investigating those local hotels you know most of the time people they keep records of license
01:07:03
plates vehicles or you normally need a credit card to rent credit card ID all those sort of things not that this
01:07:11
individual couldn't have stolen you know couldn't have put together materials to
01:07:16
travel um and use somebody else's funds or vehicle for that one of the theories here is that
01:07:24
this was not a robbery at all that this was kind of is kind of staged to be a robbery but in sense there was there was
01:07:32
a murder that was actually going to happen and the thought on this is Roa McFarland she would be at the center of
01:07:41
this Theory because for several years Roa had been deeply involved with the embassy Christian Center which is a now
01:07:48
defunct Church in Crest Hill Illinois she began as an administrative assistant assistant to the pastor George AI Jr and
01:07:58
soon became one of his most trusted colleagues she was ordained as a minister and had become an associate
01:08:06
pastor at the church and she was even counseling girls remember we said she set up that Princess program at some
01:08:13
point Roa began to feel uncomfortable with some of ai's financial decisions it's unclear of what if any wrongdoing
01:08:23
transpired and whether roa's discomfort was solely over finances or if it included
01:08:29
something more personal that she had uncovered so a bad relationship happens between these two
01:08:37
now around this same time the church's membership went from 1,000 people to 75 by the time of 2006 and this is when Roa
01:08:49
decides to leave yes just looking looking on the outside in when you see drastic numbers like that drop you
01:08:58
assume you kind of assume something weird is going on there right yeah well it sounds to me that he was making some
01:09:05
weird decisions this got out to uh his the the members of the church most of the members of the church probably
01:09:13
thought it was shady or or not a part of their belief systems and they left MH well AI he moved with his family and
01:09:22
several church members to Austin Texas and this was to start a new church um Embassy Nation Network which now appears
01:09:31
to be closed as well well the only problem with this theory for me is that Rona wasn't scheduled to work that day
01:09:39
yeah no I I get what you're saying but I want to kind of go into this in a little
01:09:43
more depth here because this was something that the police investigated and even though they've been very tight
01:09:50
lipped about it one intriguing clue that the investigators uncover covered is a 20-minute phone call placed by a former
01:09:57
Embassy member now this took place about an hour before the murders and it was routed through the tower the cell phone
01:10:05
tower nearest the Lane Bryant store apparently this was enough to Peak the task force interest because in Late
01:10:13
July of the year of the murders nearly a dozen detectives from the major crimes task force traveled to Texas to
01:10:21
interview former church members and Associates of Roa including Ai and now apparently at this time he was living in
01:10:31
some big mansion up in the hills and uh somewhere in Texas when they tracked him
01:10:36
down now right so you go from a thousand members to 75 and then you go to Texas and you
01:10:43
close down another church but you're still living in a mansion mhm H interesting how that works AI has
01:10:51
publicly and forcefully rejected Ed any notion that his church is linked to the homicides and investigators have
01:10:59
continually said that um currently that they have no suspects so but but it's an
01:11:07
intriguing connection the Texas con connection for several reasons and one is the day before the murders there was
01:11:16
a San Antonio newssite this is W ai.com ran a story about a sex scan involving a
01:11:24
pastor named Rick Hawkins Hawkins is alleged to have used church funds to silence women either because he had had
01:11:32
affairs with them or he has sexually harassed them now a poster on that site using the name for what's right left the
01:11:43
following comment under the Hawkins story for what's right February 1st 2008 posted well someone should check out
01:11:52
George Ai and Austin Texas formerly of Illinois he has ties with Hawkins and has been suspected of doing the same
01:12:00
thing the name of his church is Embassy Nation Church formerly Embassy Christian
01:12:05
Center records show for what's right registered on that day and posted on that day and never commented again there
01:12:14
are some out there that believe that this for what's right could actually have been Roa
01:12:21
McFarland so I here's the thing Captain that's an interesting Theory it's an interesting thought very interesting one
01:12:28
that we shouldn't completely rule out here that that maybe somebody was sent to kill Roa or one of these other people
01:12:37
now regarding this particular Theory there is the cell phone tower information but really nothing much else
01:12:46
right um so while it sounds like a very juicy lead imposs Theory keep in mind the police did investigate this and
01:12:54
currently today they are stating that while through the course of 10 years they have had what they thought to be
01:13:00
many good suspects as we sit here today they are telling us they have no suspects so having investigated this
01:13:07
telling us they have no suspects it seems like it's been thoroughly investigated and possibly no connection
01:13:14
but I do want to mention this before we conclude today another possible Texas connection is that America's Most Wanted
01:13:22
the great te show they covered this case when it was fresh well after doing a segment on the Lane Bryant case they
01:13:33
concluded that the killer sounded like he had some type of southern [Music] accent if you'd like to help shine some
01:13:48
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