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[Music] West Memphis 3 West Memphis [Music] 3 Damen Eckles Jason Baldwin Jesse Miss Kelly
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West Memphis 3 they were just 8 years old Steven Branch Michael Moore and Christopher
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buers found murdered hog tied and naked in a drainage dit in West Memphis West Memphis
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3 the state stands behind the conviction a lot of this and we've heard this time
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and time again with persons that even offer up a false confession to police that they just there hey there's so much
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pressure from these guys for me to say that I did it that eventually I just gave in and said I did it because I
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thought well they're going to figure out eventually that I didn't do it even though I said I did right and you wonder
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given that the the mindset of an 18-year-old of a 16-year-old and a 17year old like I I wish I was smarter
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today I'm definitely smarter today especially in my behavior than I was when I was 16 17 and 18 years old
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correct it it's it's not a far stretch for me to believe that maybe all three of them or at least individually that
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some of these guys thought well this will all get sorted out at some point at some point they're going to realize I
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didn't do this yeah but that there's no excuse for trying to taunt the victim's parents oh no no no I'm not saying I'm
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not saying that they should do that but I I'm saying I guess what I'm saying is if they're
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innocent I would I don't condone that kind of behavior but I don't know that a lot of these things a lot of these
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things don't sway me strongly whether they're innocent or guilty no no and that and that's the problem and and it's
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like the turtle thing right like the animal predation with like and they go on like the different sources they go on
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to all kinds of different animals and it's very likely that that is animal predation and I'll have somebody that
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will be angry with me and go Nick look at the science of course it's animal animal predation the the reason why I
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don't dive too deep into that aspect of this crime is if a turtle is respons or some other kind of animal was
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responsible for some of the injuries postmortem on these boys that does not tell me who killed them right it correct
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it doesn't tell me who killed him other than the only thing that that it is suggestive of is that the confession
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that they got that it was a satanic crime and that one would expect them to be sexually mutilated like like that
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unit out of New York told the West Memphis PD that it's not a a satanic crime that's the only thing that's s
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suggestive of it doesn't tell you who killed these boys yeah but this crime is different because it's not like the Jill
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dando case right Jill dando is shot on the front steps of her house and that's it this crime had levels to it there was
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some form of sexual assault there was which which again though that's another detail in this case that is persons have
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varying opinions of and some of them are very strong opinions well what what I'm
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saying is there's levels in the sense of like no I mean the sexual assault the sexual assult aspect of this you if you
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lined up 10 so-called experts on this case and asked them if the boys or one or all three were sexually assaulted you
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would get a different answer well and I think we would have a better answer if they weren't submerged in water for 15
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hours or more more than 15 hours and that but there's levels to this cuz what do we know we know that they were killed
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in the woods now you have to question were they LED there were they did did they just happen to go into the woods
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and and stumble upon an individual that they shun it or multiple individuals you
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can make all these arguments about what markings were done by animals but I believe that there was some markings
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done and and law enforcement believes this and a lot of experts believe some of the brutal nature of this crime took
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place before they were put into into water and took place by the hands of a human and not animals of course and then
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you have they would have had to yeah no doubt then you have the disrobing of of the victims was this done before the
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crime started was this done after then you have the way the clothes were placed into the water wrapped around on on
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sticks that that took some level of intelligence and then The Binding the fact that they're not bound right to
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left they're bound right to right left to left does that mean something some some of the items of clothing missing
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from the scene does that mean anything is that suggestive that they were killed elsewhere and then then discarded of
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here or does that suggest that the killer took some of these items with them and they were killed near where
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they were found yeah and again like I said because I think the knots suggest more than one perpetrator okay
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so again is it more of a ritualistic thing for one of the murderer or and less for the other ones I mean I think
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these this is such gray area that it's hard for an expert to say definitively that this is some ritualistic killing or
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or not I mean this this case just bothers the [ __ ] out of me well and I'm glad I I shouldn't say that I'm glad
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that it does but I think that makes you a very normal human being like I don't know that I don't know how anybody could
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not be bothered by this case and I think it's just I mean again that there's there's
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arrogance throughout this case I mean people that think that they're 100% innocent sometimes they stand on this
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hill of arrogance and just knocking off have a a little bit of an open mind that
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you you possibly are wrong and it's so frustrating now because with the court stating that Daman eckol canest evidence
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which is really strange because if you go back to the Alfred plead the Alfred plead basically states that you're going
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to leave this case alone you admitted that the prosecution had enough evidence to convict you of this crime you get to
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maintain your innocence but after that you have to leave this alone this case drives me insane because everybody can
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sit there and say Well they're innocent and proof that they're innocent is now Daman Eckles is trying to fight the
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court to test new items they're not new items and and I would I would say it would be some form of
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evidence that he's innocent if Daman Eckles was arguing test whatever you want to and do it on your dime because
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that's the other thing that people don't understand in this case they want to do
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it Damen eeko and his team want to do it on their dime and therefore they're the
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ones that get the results so then they're the one ones that get to relay the results to the public and to the
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courts and that's what happened back in I think it was 2011 and we talked about this on the off the record and then I'll
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jump off my soap box but one of the things that we were arguing on off the Record was you were stating that Damen
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Eckles could have been killed by the state and so instead of waiting a few months because he was going to get
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another trial that's actually not true and there's multiple reason reasons why that's not true and there's multiple
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reasons why Damen Eckles and his team knew it wasn't true because one in 2000 I believe it was
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2006 Arkansas stopped all executions and their their process of executing prisoners was under review they didn't
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cross their tees and Dot their eyes until like 2017 so during the time that he was
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trying to get out and was offering up an Alfred plea to the state there was no chance that this the state
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would have killed him because they weren't killing anybody because the whole process was under review and then
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on top of that his appeals and when you have things in the court system they don't kill you when you have you know
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appeals and processes going on in the court so this whole narrative that they spun of well I had to take this plea
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deal because they're going to try to kill him it's just a false narrative all the way around well
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okay so I'll I will have a rebuttal here because you're saying something that I said was
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untrue no I'm saying it was untrue by Damen eckel's team and by the West Memphis 3 team they were making this
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argument that well we would have liked to keep fighting in court because their whole thing was we got enough evidence
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that proves that it was one of the stepfathers and we're going to prove that to you in a couple months but
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instead of waiting to try to prove that they end up taking this plea deal and the the excuse that they gave the public
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and the excuse that they gave their supporters where well Damian was you could have been killed by the state I
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mean his original execution date was set for 2000 so he that has already you know
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he was already beyond that date which complicates things for the person that's sitting on death row when you're past
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that date yeah but again you would know if you're on death row and you know that
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in 2006 that they suspended all executions and that it was under review you would and it was under review at the
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time that you took this plea deal you can't sit there and use that as an excuse because and his appeals weren't
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exhausted yet but what I don't understand what the point is what does that mean what does any of that mean
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like the well I think it's kind of there's two yeah but listen there's two kinds of people that want to get out of
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prison innocent people and guilty people okay so I don't know that that proves anything either to either way to me no I
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just think it's a situation that people have to understand in this case is that the way whether you think they're
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innocent or whether you think they're guilty the way people spin things and again don't don't you believe that the
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way their teams spun this web was he's in grave danger of dying in prison so we have to take this deal but if they were
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so sure that this evidence was going to point to the actual murderer why would you pack your tents up and go home well
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it was it was 13 months away I believe I don't I don't believe it was that long but again I think the problem is I mean
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we both know from plenty of experience that the wheels of Justice they move but they move very slowly very slowly right
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and these again they had already spent 18 years in prison and I I mean that's that's where I leave that portion of the
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case to me like that we and I don't mean our discussion I love the for the sake of discussion it's a good discussion but
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for me internally when I think and review this case at who may have done it and I'm glad you're angry you should be
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angry because the way that I see it this case is yes it's been adjudicated but it's an unsolved case and we I believe
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that we sit here over 30 years later not knowing who the real killer or killers of these these little boys little tiny
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boys is and that angers me as well so I like the heat of discussion but for me internally I'm always left this as there
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are two kinds of people that want to be out of prison and those persons are both
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innocent and guilty people all every everybody wants to be out of prison this was the I'll spin it a different way
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because maybe that's what echo's camp was saying but one thing I do know about this Alfred plea it was an All or
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Nothing deal it was all three of you except or you're not getting the deal and so when you look at it from Miss
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Kelly's situation and you look at it from Baldwin's situation even if let's say one of them didn't
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want to go along with it like so Jason Baldwin's the best example right because he by accepting this Alfred plea he has
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the least out of the three to gain and the most to lose yet he accepts it and a large part of that was well these two
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other guys they already accepted it and I I don't want to be the one that stops this from ha the one of the three that
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stops this from happening no I just again I stated earlier that I felt let down by some of the individuals that
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have covered this case the more I dive into this case the more I'm let down by the people that are presenting the
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information um I'm let down by this the criminal justice system and I I'm I'm also let down and maybe it's wrong but I
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feel like I'm let down by the West Memphis 3 because they're also the ones that said hey let us out cuz we'll we'll
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fight and we'll we'll figure this out and some people could say well dummy that's what Damen Eckles is trying to do
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and I my response to them would be like dummy that's not what's happening yeah but Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin and
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Jesse mkelly they don't solve crimes they don't you know what I mean like that's the same sad conversation that I
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have to have sometimes with family members of victims for porch light or even for True Crime
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garage this they'll contact me a month or two later and go what's going on with you know I was really hoping that that
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porch light would would solve this and I was really hoping that true crime garage
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would light a fire under the detective's asses and they would they would really get to work on this case and the sad
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conversation that I have to have with that grieving mother of the victim uh who's
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crying on the other end of the phone or that I'm holding their hand across the table as they SOB the sad part of that
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conversation is I have to tell them porch light as good and as much as we try we we don't solve crimes True Crime
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garage we do not solve crimes the only the only persons with the power to absolutely solve the crime and make an
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arrest are law enforcement no I understand that but you're also not calling these people up and telling them
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that you're going to solve the crime you're not calling these people up and saying hey if you do XY and Z for me
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this wait cuz I'm going right but it does again but it wouldn't matter if I said that or not it's it's not case at
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the end of the day and as far as the echo situation goes with the the person that I don't think that has let you down
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is Judge laser who has been the one who has decided that yes we will allow testing yeah the state the state will
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allow Eckles in his Camp to test this evidence now the reason why it has to be paid for on the private end is because
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again something we've said a dozen times today as far as the state of Arkansas is
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concerned this the case is adjudicated they're not going to pay to test anything yeah so judge laser has made
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the determination that Eckles in his Camp can pay for it the reason being is that like I can't walk in there to any
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judge in Arkansas and say you know what I'm I represent the porch light project I represent True Crime garage we're here
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to set the record straight we just want to help these poor people we have raised
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all this money through our beer fund and through donations of our are very loyal
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and awesome listeners that we we can afford to test this evidence judge would you allow me to test it no the law says
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that only a person that has been accused of the crime can be can be involved in the defense right and essentially it's
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also the state is saying that you can only test it that what they were originally saying is Well if you were in
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jail and you were found guilty and you're in jail we'll let you test it and Damen Eckles I applaud him for saying
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hey look you found me guilty of this crime I should still have the right to test this this evidence if it could
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point to my innocence and so that is the fight that he's putting on my argument to him would be why not test everything
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and we have a pair of pants that we think that there's some semen possible semen on the pants why aren't though
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that should be the number one thing that people are screaming at the top of the the mountains to test because that could
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actually get us some answers if if you have a victim that has a possible semen stain on their pants we we should test
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that they're they want to test ligatures and things that have already been tested
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and have already resulted in no result in saying well maybe we'll get a different result if we test it a
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different way and maybe they will but I still don't think that's going to solve anything because if you you have so much
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you got contaminated at the crime scene you have contamination they they thought
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this evidence was lost and we're going to believe that this evidence was not contaminated in any way I don't even go
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down that road because then then the next step to that is going well don't even test it right like I'm with you I
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there I have suspicions that the evidence is probably contaminated yeah but I but I also wouldn't go well don't
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test it right you know and and so do do I have high hopes for this new developing story new developing angle of
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this long ongoing 31y old story no I don't have high hopes for it but you know and I get what you're saying that
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from the echo angle it looks like they took the easy cheap way out and I'm not going to lie to you I I would love it
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would it would be it would do me some favors internally if they would have rode the storm out and they got to the
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hearing to present this other evidence new evidence whatever you want to call it
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that if they would have if they would have rode the storm out whether it was two months three months 13 months or
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what what have you it would be better for Nick Edwards of True Crime garage if they did that yeah but again and and I'm
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not trying to use the walk a mile in their shoes excuse because I don't think it's an excuse I think that I don't I
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can't have a great opinion on them taking the easy way out but I say this the state of Arkansas also took the easy
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way out that's the whole reason for the Alfred plea the whole reason for this Alfred plea is to go well we probably
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got this wrong there's could be some new evidence come to light that suggest that
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these guys are innocent let's cut our losses now and let them out before we have to compensate all three of them for
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spending over 18 years of their lives in prison well and it's it goes even deeper
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than that it's the judge uh if the if they would have waited a year it probably would have been a different
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judge and that judge would have never allowed the aler plead period and maybe they knew that and then people make an
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argument that the judge only allowed this Alfred plead because they were going to be reelected or or needed the
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publicity or or or whatever it is but I that's I think that's my frustration in this this case particularly is the
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amount of lying uh from both sides law enforcement the defense the you know these three
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individuals that were convicted of the crime the amount of lying that they've done and it just goes back to that we
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have three victims that aren't going to get Justice and their families are not going to get Justice it it drives me
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absolutely insane it was Judge Bernett that kept a strangle hold on this case for so many years and it was only until
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he released and relinquished that power in that authority over this case that they were able to start having these
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much more civilized talks of right coming to some kind of result I hate to harp on this but they stated we have all
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this DNA evidence and we can prove their innocence and we can we have a suspect and now however many years later what 13
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years later they're saying well we don't think it's that guy we think it's a different person now so the things that
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they that you know this narrative that these these these poor little T these poor little teenage boys were just
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thrown under the bus and railroaded I just don't think that's true that's not a true Narrative of the story I think
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that's the narrative that people want to present and that's just not true that doesn't mean that they are guilty of
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these murders but they I think that's open to interpretation I think that that many people are going to have vary
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opinions on that part of the case because you have somebody like me who I do think that they were in fact
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railroaded I sit here and I go well if Vicky Hutchinson would not have lied to police are these guys firmly on the
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radar in the way that they they ended up being I I also wonder had they not had they not practically drugged this
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confession out of out of a a 17-year-old boy with a with a argumentatively s 2 IQ
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right this bad confession out of this kid that uh would they have even made these arrests I I I it's like it's like
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this domino effect of one bad thing happening after another that leads to a conviction of three different
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individuals and and remember we talked about this when we covered it the first time if if Jesse Miss Kelly's confession
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gets completely tossed out do they do you convict eckol and bald and then on top of that had Baldwin's attorney been
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smart enough and made the Right Moves those two wouldn't have been in the courtroom at the same time altogether
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and if I'm Baldwin's attorney I'm doing everything that I possibly can to get his trial to go before Eckles because
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it's kind of like a tagalong Sit situation like oh if Eckles is guilty then Baldwin has to be guilty based off
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of the confession and that they're best friends and that they're on trial together like it it the it gets very
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complicated very quickly yeah but again the narrative is that the police interrogated this kid
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and got a confession and that's part of the story but what about the other four confessions that weren't interrogated
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and people that think that these police officers just went down this path with blinders on every time that boy wanted
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to confess they were there asking questions recording it and trying to get to the bottom of what really happened
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that day but the flip of that would be every time he's offered a deal to testify against Baldwin and eckol he
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does not he turns it down you see what I mean like I I get I I get what you're saying and I get like the other
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confessions trouble me too I I for them to be innocent and me to believe that 100% I would it would be so much easier
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if he never had all these other confessions that being Melly but it it's again when when
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offered the deal and this happened on at least two occasions he's offered a deal
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to testify against them to for a reduced sentence right and so to me it's like well when it mattered the
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most he he wasn't willing to do it [Music] [Music] and people that think they're guilty
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will always point to the fact that they pled guilty essentially to get out of prison and I'd argue that I don't think
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that's again innocent people want out of prison just as bad as guilty people want
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out of prison so I think your point is very valid on that one of the problems I have one of the the reasons why this is
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a red light case is because we don't have just one confession by Jesse Miss Kelly we have five but we have
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confessions depending on if you want to believe them or not we have Confessions by all three suspects I don't think the
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okay Jesse mkelly didn't confess I don't think that was the nail in the coffin and I don't know if you were able to
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ever review uh the notes that the jury made and they would make a list of pros and cons one of the number one things
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that they thought pointed to the guilt of Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin was the confession of Michael Carson which
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which he later recanted yeah and that's again every little Point whether you think they're innocent or guilty you can
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start arguing these points like people that think that they're innocent say well well Michael Carson that's a
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[ __ ] confession because he's a jailhouse snitch and I always thought he was a jail house snitch so I was like
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wait well this confession is [ __ ] right he's he he had something to gain from this okay then you dive down the
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rabbit hole let's look into Michael Carson and you go okay Michael Carson was not in prison at the time that he
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went to police he did not get any deal from law enforcement he was actually out of prison sitting there watching on the
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news them talking about the West Memphis 3 and he told his dad hey I was in prison with Jason Baldwin and he told me
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what happened and he told his father the details and his father said we got to go
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to law enforcement and he said I I don't want to and he goes no we need to go and
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then they took a polygraph test and again you're going to have arguments on whether a polygraph test were good or
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bad but he passed the polygraph test and so they put him on the stand and then people can sit there and dissect his his
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movements and whether he's nervous or not and then there's the argument later that if you think they're innocent you
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go well Michael Carson recanted his statements from everything I've read he has apologized to Jason Baldwin and his
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excuse was hey I was on a lot of drugs back then but nowhere have I heard him say the statements that he made at court
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weren't true and again but those there's a million points of this case and that's
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why I just hate it so much like I I I dive into this case so much and I have to remind myself this is not the case
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we're working on for next week but it's those three boys Christopher buers Michael Moore Stevie branch and it's
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just like and I know there's going to be a bunch of people that are listening right now that go wow the captain thinks
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they're guilty no I don't know I wish I knew I wish I could stand on a hill of arrogance and ignorance and just tell
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you I think they're guilty or I think they're Innocent but I can't and and I and I'm bothered by dami Eckles I think
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he has this idea that he can manipulate people and lie and I think he lied on the stand I think there's evidence of
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that in the documentaries I think he constantly lies to people to get attention I think that's who he is I
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think he wants to be larger than life I think we made him Larger than Life and I
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think he's a liar I don't know if he murdered these boys or not though and I'd love to get to the bottom of it the
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way that the testing could get to the bottom of it is I again I preface this by saying like I said earlier and like I
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said on off the record I don't have High Hopes I'm usually a glass half full kind
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of guy I'm not incredibly optimistic about this new developing portion of this ongoing story but where it could
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let's I I'll be glass half full for a while okay I'll try to I'll examine it from a different angle there are to this
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day 31 years later and in fact actually some of this information is older than that there are other unsolved child
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murders in that area that if if this evidence were to align with any evidence in any of those cases well that would be
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pretty powerful right or if it was an individual that wasn't supposed to be there at that time and it wasn't one of
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these three boys or wasn't one of the stepparents Christina Marie Pipkin was last SE May 4th and and notice
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notice some of the dates on this stuff May 4th 1991 in Hickory Ridge she was 9 years
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old she disappeared while selling jewelry door Todo for a school fundraiser her body was found five days
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later in a ditch five miles outside of town she had apparently drowned and police say she drowned her death as the
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result of Foul Play May 21st 199 2 Geneva Smith age 13 reported missing she left home to catch a school bus and was
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never seen alive again June 1st 1992 her badly decomposed body was found in the St Francis River the body was in such
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poor condition that a cause of death cannot be determined it's being investigated as a homicide and has been
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since June of 1992 October of 1992 jardina Jones cross goes missing on the 13th her body's
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found the next day she was a 10th grader in high school she died from three puncture wounds in lacerations to the
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face and neck these These are leading up to the arrest of Jesse mkelly Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin they had six
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mysterious unsolved child murders in this immediate area going on at the time now these These are four different
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counties but they they are all neighboring count they're all connected and so if the if the evidence comes back
00:31:31
and says something to suggest that one of these other crimes is tied to the murder of these three boys that could be
00:31:38
something powerful the other thing too and this this is a bit of a even more of a leap I want to be clear that that it
00:31:44
would be a leap right if that were to be the case but trying to be glass half full here a little bit we talk about
00:31:51
problems with this case go back to Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left West Memphis
00:31:58
together for Oceanside California on May 10th so 4 days after the bodies of the boys were discovered right they're
00:32:06
picked up May 17th they take a polygraph examination administered by the California police so a a whole different
00:32:15
entity a whole different law enforcement agency are administering this this polygraph exam and of I don't want
00:32:22
anybody getting confused out there we have pointed out time and time again the problem the pros and cons with the
00:32:29
polygraph exams so don't think that we're living dying and breathing that these are that polygraph exams are the
00:32:36
end all be all of homicide investigations they're not a barometer but but the reason why I'm bringing up
00:32:42
the polygraph examination of these two boys who were picked up in California who just so happen to be leave West
00:32:48
Memphis four days after the bodies are discovered is that according to the California police they tell the West
00:32:55
Memphis PD look these guys we gave them a test and they showed signs of deception when they denied involvement
00:33:03
in the murders of those three boys now the flip of that is they give West Memphis PD gives Jesse Miss Kelly a
00:33:11
polygraph examination he shows signs of deception in their opinion and their response to that is he's lying his ass
00:33:19
off let's Grill him until he confesses meanwhile they don't bother to make a second phone call about Christopher
00:33:25
Morgan or Brian Holland out in California it's it's so weird that you have those two well I thought those were
00:33:32
the boys that they eventually got to confess out in California and then that wasn't allowed in the trial they weren't
00:33:40
allowed to hear that confession exactly it was it was barred they were not allowed to use that evidence at trial
00:33:46
because of course the defense is going to put that up if if they're worth their weight yeah and I I don't know if you
00:33:52
will allow me just to just to wrap up my thoughts on this 5 minutes less than 5 minutes I think this case is
00:34:01
so difficult but I think if you're only watching Paradise Lost if you're only reading and watching certain things that
00:34:09
that point to the fact that they're innocent you're not doing your due diligence I think there's individuals
00:34:14
like William Ramsay Roberta glass Burn After Reading Gary me and Lisa O'Brien that have made some very valid points
00:34:23
and some of these individuals I believe are experts on this this case if my knowledge of this case is a two out of a
00:34:31
10 or three out of a 10 some of these individuals have uh a lot more extensive knowledge of this case and I think if
00:34:39
you're on the fence or if you think they're innocent or guilty I I think these or individuals worth looking into
00:34:47
some of their thoughts and some of the evidence that they have presented to the public again the the genes with possible
00:34:56
seamen stains on them that needs to be tested I don't know if Damen Eckles is responsible for this crime or not but I
00:35:04
know that individual named Alistair Crowley was brought up at his trial and Alistair Crowley in my opinion is a
00:35:13
horrible pile of [ __ ] he also talks in his book magic about the sacrificing of
00:35:19
a child and how that would bring you power of a God and the the best age to kill a child is it would be a male child
00:35:27
at the age of eight at the trial Daman Eckles claims that he knows nothing about him and even though he's writing
00:35:34
his name down on pieces of paper and and and has has no clue about him well just
00:35:40
a year ago on a podcast Dam eel said two individuals that he's never met that have really influenced his life or were
00:35:50
mentors to him were alist Crowley and Joel Olstein my problem with comments like
00:35:56
this and also if you watch a lot of Daman eckl's interviews my big issue with him is okay even if you're innocent
00:36:04
of the crime where's the sympathy where's the empathy for the victims I understand that if you're innocent of
00:36:11
these crimes that you're also a victim but you got lucky you got people that believed in you you had millions of
00:36:20
people that came and donated money to try to fight your case you had celebrities come out of the woodwor
00:36:27
works and when he is interviewed he doesn't State the victim's names the true victim's names Christopher Byers
00:36:34
Michael Moore and Stevie Branch those boys were eight years old they lost everything you lost some years maybe you
00:36:43
lost rose petal glasses that you could look at the world through you lost something too if you're Innocent but why
00:36:50
don't we ever speak of their names why why don't we ever show empathy for their families
00:36:58
and and also it's okay to say hey I was a [ __ ] kid and I just thought they're going to end up get in the right
00:37:06
guy one day and and those actions of my past I I I feel bad for and I need to make amends for because the taunting of
00:37:15
the family that's just not acceptable or the laughing about the these crimes I understand you're 18 years old and
00:37:22
you're naive and you're underdeveloped and undereducated but I just can't get past some of that
00:37:31
stuff I just think and and then to know that this individual that okay if you're
00:37:38
innocent of the crime then alist Crowley has nothing to do with these murders but
00:37:43
you know if you're this if he's one of your mentors you know that he has made the statement that killing an
00:37:49
eight-year-old boy brings you power you just keep that stuff out of your out out
00:37:54
of your [ __ ] mouth because it's disrespectful and you know the boys were killed on the
00:37:59
full moon and so then you have a whole chapter in your book about the power of moon water I just think it's stuff like
00:38:06
that where it's like I don't know there's people that think they're guilty that says Damen Eckles is just taunting
00:38:13
everybody and I don't know if he is or isn't but it's like that's that's why my opinion of him is not highly because I
00:38:23
if he's innocent he's a victim as well like you said maybe I should walk a mile in his shoes and maybe I'd feel
00:38:31
differently but I think if I was wrongfully convicted of these crimes I would not only try to tell my story but
00:38:40
try to tell the victim victim stories as well like I said earlier I'm not going to fault anybody for being angry or
00:38:47
frustrated in this case this is a case if you don't get angered or frustrated one way or another or every which way
00:38:55
which I think you and I are frustrated every which way then I don't think you have a pulse about this case right and
00:39:00
so I again I'll I'll be glass half full and say that I hope that this evidence does do something and at the very least
00:39:10
May or or even more so not just in this case but some of the other cases that we've just mentioned I hate to see other
00:39:21
child victim cases still to this day being unsolved and we're talking about cases that 91 '92 and ' 93 and it's it's
00:39:31
you know their parents are are passing away without getting any answers or any real answers in the west Memphis 3 case
00:39:39
in my opinion and then but I I I will go a different route and say that the major
00:39:45
issue I have with this case is the West Memphis Police Department's handling of this case I I have seen agencies across
00:39:56
the years that we've covered so many cases over 700 episodes and I've seen a case handled every which
00:40:04
way possible I've seen I've seen agencies do a a job that I think is absolutely brilliant in some very
00:40:13
difficult cases and I've seen other agencies that have done a horrible lazy dumbass job and I sit here and of course
00:40:23
look I'm not trying to be on my high horse here but I sit here all these years later and several hundred miles
00:40:30
away and I review this case and I I cannot for a second get over the piss poor job that I think that the West
00:40:39
Memphis Police Department did in this case and like I said earlier in our conversation here today Captain is I
00:40:45
think this thing was flubbed up from the very beginning I think that they screwed
00:40:48
it up I I I do like that they called the FBI we know that they called the FBI based off of a conversation between John
00:40:55
Douglas and and Ken Lanning by the way I know we'll be we'll have a different recommendation for this week for the
00:41:01
reading but remember back in the day we recommended Ken lanning's book love bombs and molesters he's an absolute
00:41:08
expert in his field I recommend that book uh every which way to Sunday I appreciate that they called New York
00:41:16
City where they dropped the ball was they should have got a larger agency with better and more resources than they
00:41:25
possessed at the time to take over this case this would be like Deli Indiana it would have been like if the deli the
00:41:33
local Deli police would have said we're going to head up this investigation we don't want the sheriff's department
00:41:39
involved we don't want the state police involved we don't want the FBI involved and Mara Leverett points out in the
00:41:45
devil's not and she doesn't she doesn't accuse them of this it's a little implied that her opinion may be because
00:41:52
they were under suspicion of not doing things on the up and up in West Memphis that that's why that they refus to call
00:42:00
in a larger bigger better agency that may have done a better job you know there's there's certainly suspicion of
00:42:07
them confiscating evidence in other cases we're talking about guns money and drugs and then turning around and
00:42:15
selling them or Distributing them amongst their personnel yeah and that was the suspicion at the time and that's
00:42:22
why it was believed back in 1993 that they would not allow another agency in here and I think just the the quick
00:42:31
comparison of the Christopher Morgan Brian Holland situation in comparison to the Jesse mkelly
00:42:38
situation it would make anybody go wait a second this this was the same scenario
00:42:44
and you treated both of them completely different ways well the reason why it's not the same scenario not to nitpick but
00:42:52
Jesse Miss Kelly came to you you came you went and well great great sorry you didn't you know I'm glad you didn't have
00:43:01
to jump in your car and do act do any real work like I mean come on like you're being your whole outfit is being
00:43:08
paid by taxpayers to solve this case and to to see that they they treated one guy
00:43:15
who the test said was lying completely different to how they treated another guy or two where the same test told them
00:43:23
that they were lying is something that I'll never be able to get over and then then then take it a step further local
00:43:29
newspaper this was actually local to Memphis Tennessee the commercial appeal is the big newspaper in this region
00:43:35
after Miss Kelly is arrested they print his confession in the newspaper yeah on June 7th June 7th
00:43:45
1993 a kid who's 17 years old with no parental no no parent in the room no lawyer in the room confesses to a crime
00:43:55
like I don't even I don't even need to argue the IQ of this guy he's 17 years old he's got nobody no representation he
00:44:04
gives a confession that they know is not true because the first confession says that he that he saw the boys killed
00:44:09
around noon and his confession clearly states that the three victims and Jason Baldwin All skipped school that day
00:44:17
that's how this all went down at noon no we have the attendance records of all four of those students from two
00:44:23
different schools saying those four students were in school at noon and a CO we know that there were several 30
00:44:29
eyewitnesses that see these boys after school at 5 5:30 5:45 up to 630 p.m. right and and they print they the police
00:44:41
there is no way that the Commercial Appeal gets this confession without getting it from the West Memphis Police
00:44:47
Department I what what the hell how if this is your if this is your this is your Bible if you are going to convict
00:44:56
the these three you've arrested these three if you're going to convict them this is your Bible right and we know
00:45:02
that based off of there's not a whole lot of great stuff as far as coverage goes about the case and the facts of the
00:45:09
case in Paradise Lost all three of those documentaries if you would if you want to call it that I I like to refer to it
00:45:17
more as they're chronicling what happened if they were to shoot those documentaries today it would be filled
00:45:22
with all kinds of information we've seen you know we've seen how documentaries in
00:45:26
in true handled today a eight part series A 10p Part series those were very well
00:45:33
if you know again there's varying opinions out there but in my opinion had they got it right there there would be
00:45:40
no reason to have more than one documentary in this situation but there is no way that the Commercial Appeal
00:45:48
gets their hands on this confession to print in the June 7th newspaper June 7th 1993 newspaper without getting it from
00:45:57
local law enforcement and then guess what you've just done you've tainted your jury pole throughout the entire
00:46:05
region no of that area this newspaper goes out to all every County that one can think of you can get your hands on
00:46:14
it and it there it's in three different parts three different segments throughout that day's newspaper where
00:46:21
you are reading the details of his confession that all by the way include things like them eating dogs all kinds
00:46:30
of other things that we know in fact were not true and what did the Commercial Appeal do they they
00:46:36
copyrighted that that article newspapers don't do that you know what that's suggestive to me when you copyright that
00:46:44
article in a story and information that you clearly could have only received from the police department that tells me
00:46:51
you paid for it somebody somebody got handed an envelope of money and somebody handed off an envelope with a confession
00:46:58
in it and it got printed in the paper for everybody and their cousin to read and then you went to all those people
00:47:05
and you said you know what let's find 12 members 12 peers of this individual and let them sit and decide
00:47:13
the fate of this kid not and not just that kid but two other individuals as well
00:47:20
two others later and so it's uh maybe on another off the Record we'll go through
00:47:25
some of those other other newspaper articles but it's it's a troubling case and I think unfortunately for the rest
00:47:33
of our days Captain it's always going to remain a troubling case but at the end of the day this world let down and and
00:47:42
continues to let down Christopher buers Michael Moore and Stevie branch and I'm sorry for that and I hope that one day
00:47:50
the world will make it right we can never bring them back but maybe we can at least get them Justice in the end and
00:47:57
until we do that we we have all failed [Music] them want to thank everybody for joining
00:48:11
us here in the garage if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs make sure you become a patreon on patreon or
00:48:18
subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this
00:48:25
week we are very happy to be recommending a harvest of Innocence the untold story of the West Memphis 3
00:48:31
murder case by Dan stum and Tom McCarthy this is attorney Dan stam's now an honorable Judge Dan stum down in
00:48:40
Arkansas this is Mr stm's story regarding his involvement in the west Memphis 3 murder case attorney Dan sidam
00:48:47
breaks his self-imposed 30-year silence to expose details only he knows about the infamous
00:48:54
West Memphis 3 murders exposing what happened will allow him to close the door on a case that has
00:49:02
tormented him for years the West Memphis 3 murder case which captured the world's
00:49:08
attention in the 1990s to such an extent that it remains one of the most discussed true crime stories even today
00:49:16
now regardless if you believe that the West Memphis 3 are guilty or innocent or especially if you cannot make up your
00:49:23
mind this is a must read in my humble gar opinion maybe it's just my fascination with this case but I could
00:49:31
not put this book down and anytime that I am reading something about any of the persons involved in this case I'm always
00:49:38
taking notes so if it's new or expanded information to me I make a note I made 97 notes while reading Dan stam's book
00:49:47
The Harvest of Innocence you can find that great title and many more recommendations on our truecrime
00:49:54
garage.com recommended page until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
00:50:24
[Applause]