00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details you know what's
00:00:31
Bleak shopping for home Basics like toilet paper holders entryway Hooks and jewelry organizers it's like big
00:00:37
businesses not only have a vendetta against the Earth but also against giving us attractive quality options for
00:00:41
home accessories ditch the plastic and Elevate the mundane with saffran everyday a woman run sustainable brand
00:00:48
for durable minimalist HomeGoods made from steel visit saffran everyday.com and use promo code undercase pods for
00:00:55
15% off your first order of colorful Home Essentials that's s a r an everyday.com
00:01:08
[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen the creator of all of the garage office
00:01:54
gossip he is the water cooler Captain I don't start the fires I just add the gasoline it's good to be seen and it's
00:02:01
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are drinking
00:02:11
Intergalactic juice Hunter by odd 13 brewing in Lafayette Colorado this is a New England style IPA nice and hazy
00:02:19
brewed with Galaxy and amarello Hops and an ABV of 8% garage grade 4 out of five
00:02:26
bottle caps and thanks to some of our dedic ated Friends of the garage first up we raise a glass to Melissa in
00:02:34
Thornhill Ontario Canada and a big we like your jib to Eric and Madison Wisconsin next up we have a thank you
00:02:42
that we want to send out to Daniel in Melbourne Australia he says listening to TCG at work puts a spring in his step
00:02:50
and a big cheers to Joanne and Whitman Massachusetts next up we have Lauren a buckeye fan fo life in Savannah Georgia
00:02:58
and next a big cheers to Jennifer C in the parts that are unknown thanks to everyone for fueling the flying garage
00:03:06
ship for this week's show if you want to put a little beer in the gas tank for next week go to True Crim garage.com and
00:03:12
click on the Donate button and this is the last week to pre-order your true crime garage plumbing company
00:03:21
T-shirt If you don't order this week use a piece of [ __ ] and that's enough of the
00:03:28
business all right thank you Captain everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:46
crime let's get right into what we know about Daniel Nations he was born on October 18th
00:03:54
1985 his life has been plagued by violence and dysfunction he never knew his father who was imprisoned for child
00:04:02
molestation he was raised by his grandparents in chzn South Carolina with visitation to his mother Rebecca Smith
00:04:10
on weekends and holidays in November of 2002 when he was 17 years old Nations was staying with his mother Rebecca when
00:04:20
she was murdered by her brother James Jr Cummings her body naked but for underwear and a cast on a broken arm she
00:04:30
suffered in a fight with her boyfriend was dragged into the woods and covered by leaves Rebecca's odd Topsy revealed
00:04:38
that she had cocaine in her system and had been stabbed twice and had a broken jaw and nose nation's grandmother says
00:04:46
she asked Nations and his wife to move off of her property years ago and hasn't spoken to him since it's unclear where
00:04:57
Nations was between the ages of 17 and maybe about 22 or 23 but at some point he went into the
00:05:04
Marines he was dismissed after about 4 years for General unhonorable meaning his performance was satisfactory but he
00:05:14
failed to meet all expectations of conduct for a marine during his service in the
00:05:20
military Nations claims to have developed PTSD and severe anxiety disorder it's possible that these mental
00:05:28
afflictions are likely why he would end up being treated leniently by the judge in the hatchet case but the hatchet case
00:05:37
was far from his first runin with the law yeah cuz nation has a pretty long criminal history he has convictions for
00:05:45
public indecency in North Carolina that stem from two 2007 incidents where he was masturbating in public deliberately
00:05:54
exposing himself to more than one victim pulling a Louis CK for these 2007 offenses Nations served 2
00:06:03
years in prison and was required to register as a sex offender after his release he moved to Indiana where he was
00:06:11
required again to register as a sex offender and did so in Carol County but he failed to register as a sex offender
00:06:18
in Johnson County as required he had no fixed address and was living under bridges and at campsites although we
00:06:27
don't know if that was still the case during the time frame when the deli murders took place in 2015 Nation seems
00:06:35
to have really started into a downward spiral he was arrested in March of 2015 on marijuana charges he was arrested in
00:06:45
July for pleasuring himself and peeping in the stall of a woman's restroom at a gas station in Indiana this guy is just
00:06:53
a sicko in November he failed to appear in court for the IND indecency charge and was arrested ared and negotiated a
00:07:00
one-year suspended sentence in December he was arrested for domestic battery for
00:07:06
an incident where he punched his wife Caitlyn in the face breaking her nose in front of their children he served 99
00:07:13
days in jail for that offense yeah it seems like they're giving this guy a little bit too many chances and
00:07:19
negotiating things that they shouldn't be in 2016 Nations managed to be arrested only once you know good for him
00:07:28
all right yeah yeah um this was for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia but that that's just when
00:07:34
he's caught for things right think about how many times he probably pulled out his little wanker and started pulling
00:07:41
the Pud and didn't get in trouble for it well this offense included driving without a license as well mhm in early
00:07:49
2017 Nations initially checked in with law enforcement weekly as required by his sex offender status he checked in on
00:07:57
February 14th as sched SCH that is the day that Abby and Libby's bodies were discovered he was arrested and jailed
00:08:05
for 4 days in January of 2017 quick question for you and you might not know this but was that the first time he
00:08:12
started checking back in uh no he was actually checking in I have his his extended record if you want to peek into
00:08:20
that for a second well but the overall thing was he was checking in for a while it wasn't just the first time he started
00:08:26
checking back in well so my records that I found were related to 2017 they they they start in 2017 MH so on January 31st
00:08:41
Daniel Nations checked in with law enforcement per his requirement to register as a sex offender then he
00:08:47
checked in again on February 7th February 14th when the bodies were found so he was required to check in Weekly
00:08:55
right and as far as I can find his weekly check-ins started on the 31st of January that could be incorrect but we
00:09:04
do have regular check-ins on the week weekly as scheduled right starting the last day of January in 2017 and did he
00:09:14
have any more public games of flicky flicky um I don't believe so but he he still had run-ins with the
00:09:22
law so you know the the really big time in question would be February 13th and February 14th you know when when the
00:09:30
girls are missing when the bodies are found we know he checked in on the 14th and we also know that he did serve 4
00:09:37
days in jail in February this for failure to appear in an earlier eviction case right he was released after those 4
00:09:47
days and he did continue to check in notifying of a change of address to the Greenwood motel in Indiana this was on
00:09:55
April 12th he was arrested again on April 2 fifth for marijuana possession and a driver's license violation and he
00:10:04
failed to appear in court as required in July of 2017 now this is because on May
00:10:10
12th he checked out of the Greenwood motel and as he says he went to Colorado on that day right but we can't be 100%
00:10:20
sure of that MH when Abby and Libby were killed on February 13th Daniel Nations was working for a construction company
00:10:29
in zionville Indiana which is about an hour's drive from Deli during his time living in Indiana Nations rented various
00:10:37
apartments and people who interacted with him had some Choice words to say about him
00:10:44
what tell me well we'll get into that tell me what they said uh Nations Caitlyn and his kids and their kids I'm
00:10:51
sorry were evicted by Bernice rigs after racking up $11,000 in property damage another land Lord Randy Hamilton rented
00:11:01
Nations and his family a house in Martinsville Hamilton and he had this to say about Daniel Nations quote he's a
00:11:08
damn nut I'll tell you that he's the weirdest person I've ever met in my life he had a zero tolerance temper he
00:11:16
chopped trees in a chair with a hatchet in a fit of anger Hamilton said a woman who employed Nations on her Farm in
00:11:25
Martinsville she told CBS Denver that quote he was definitely not a good guy and he had a very bad temper he trashed
00:11:34
the apartment she rented him frequently became violent destroyed property and even threatened one of her family
00:11:41
members with a hatchet and this woman goes on to say that it got so bad that she had to get police and the courts
00:11:47
involved to have him forcibly removed by court order yeah here's this lady trying
00:11:52
to run him out of place trying to give him a job he destroys the place and then he won't even leave mhm yeah
00:11:59
and it actually appears that before even before he was arrested in Colorado that
00:12:05
Nations was being looked at as a potential suspect in the deli case from what I could find it looks like on July
00:12:12
18th of 2017 the Indiana State Police began investigating Nations because he failed to check in since April of that
00:12:22
year and he departed from his known address the the motel of course we now know that they
00:12:28
would find him in Colorado this being in September of 20177 pursuant to the tip about his
00:12:36
similarity to the deli suspect sketch at the time of Tim Watkins murder Nations and his wife Caitlyn and their
00:12:45
two little kids were living out of their car and at campsites throughout Colorado
00:12:50
nation's brother Edward ly had been assaulted and murdered in Colorado Springs in early
00:12:57
2017 he was kicked in the head by steel toe boots Edward's murderer Matthew stroker was sentenced on the same day
00:13:09
that Tim Watkins was killed and this murderers lenient sentence of only 16 years some have speculated could have
00:13:17
caused Nations to go off the deep end and lash out at the first person that he saw or that happened by yeah when
00:13:26
Nations was arrested in Colorado there is an interesting side note right before he was arrested he and Caitlyn pawned an
00:13:33
unknown item at a local pawn shop now presumably it was something not linkable to Tim Watkins or police would have
00:13:43
noted that right if the if the pawn shop was honest M oh this is where I had his
00:13:51
uh his some of his description Daniel nation's physical description um it's worth noting that the arrest affidavit
00:14:00
listed Nations as being 170 lb with brown eyes and hair and his residence was listed as transient M so I I didn't
00:14:11
peg him just from seeing the mug shot I didn't peg him for 170 lbs but still probably not as big as what the bridge
00:14:18
guy looks like yeah well [ __ ] weighs a little more Caitlyn told his wife Caitlyn told Colorado investigators at
00:14:26
the time that she was that she not Nations was the owner of the 22 rifle that she purchased it she says for
00:14:36
protection after their car was broken into and Caitlyn had her own problems as well and was wanted in the Carolinas on
00:14:44
a failure to appear in court for what I I don't know right but just because she has ownership of the gun or claims to
00:14:53
have own ownership of the gun you know Nations has access to the gun yes and that's what's so tricky about
00:15:01
this and then you have the added fact of the lenient sentence for his brother's murderer right all right so we have a
00:15:09
guy that's your motive if you break this down in its in its simplest form we have
00:15:15
a guy that is described by everyone before he even gets to Colorado he's described by people in Indiana as a
00:15:23
strange dude that has a a horrible violent temper well yeah they call him nuts yeah and that's not just because he
00:15:29
goes around showing everybody his nuts it's not some clever nickname so we have this guy that that has a known violent
00:15:36
temper then on top of that we know that he has access to a gun to a firearm on the same day that Watkins went
00:15:46
missing his brother gets this lenient sentence for I mean his brother's murderer gets a lenient sentence yeah so
00:15:53
it's almost like justice is not done my brother was killed Justice should be done oh you're not going to do justice
00:16:01
well I'm going to go kill somebody and let's see how you like that mhm yeah I mean we're we're discussing a guy that
00:16:07
doesn't reason well with with anything no you know to the point of waving a hatchet at people yeah do we have a
00:16:16
situation where he's out in the middle of nowhere and comes across this biker Tim Watkins all by himself and decides
00:16:24
to take out all of his anger and frustrations on just some random stranger yeah because we know that Tim
00:16:30
would confront somebody if he thought somebody was doing something wrong mhm and so was Nations doing something and
00:16:37
then Tim said hey buddy uh you shouldn't do that here you shouldn't shoot your gun over here because there's people
00:16:42
riding their bikes and then Nation just lost it you also have to wonder too could the the shot that took out Tim
00:16:49
Watkins Tire on his bike could that have just been an accidental thing right and then and then
00:16:57
Watkins might fly off off the chain there real quick because we're talking about expensive bikes we're also talking
00:17:04
about a guy that we we have his wife saying hey yeah he he worked hard and he worked at these bike repair shops and at
00:17:11
these bike shops and so on and so forth but money seemed to be an issue inside their marriage does did Watkins finally
00:17:20
have enough of it saying to himself you know I've spoke to I've been nice about this as long as I could have possibly
00:17:27
been nice about it right I've confronted many people that have been out here illegally shooting their guns and now
00:17:35
this Yahoo accidentally destroyed my bike and maybe he's not so friendly when he
00:17:43
approaches this person be it Nations or somebody else could that first shot just
00:17:48
have been an accident that led to to a road rage situation where where one man's holding a gun and the other ends
00:17:56
up being a murder victim right and again how far is he off this Trail and with a
00:18:02
flat tire then you got to carry this bike back so it's you could be super pissed in September of 2017 Daniel
00:18:11
Nations was being looked at by Colorado law enforcement for the Tim Watkins case
00:18:16
as well as the hatchet menacing allegations and the possible connection with the murders in Deli now he seems to
00:18:24
be in a lot of hot water as a potential suspect in two murder cases for one thing the El Paso County authorities
00:18:32
seemed very interested in him for the Tim Watkins murder but unbelievably although investigators
00:18:39
questions question Nations about Watkins they say they thoroughly investigated him they never named him as a suspect in
00:18:49
Tim's murder my problem is we have reason to believe that it was a 22 used in his death we have nations with the
00:18:58
abil AB ility to have a 22 so that lines up but also that we have tests that can't be run on these guns or on the
00:19:08
bullets the only thing that's going to seem to really stick here is the hatchet charges where you know and Nations
00:19:16
denied threatening anyone with a hatchet he told authorities that he was just yelling at people and shaking his fist
00:19:23
sure but the hatchet found in his car and the multiple Witness reports we have multiple Witnesses reporting the same
00:19:31
thing seem to clearly be enough to bring the charges against this guy well he's a
00:19:36
lifelong criminal I mean you can't believe what he says 3 months after his arrest prosecutors cut a deal with
00:19:42
Nations that allowed him to plead guilty to one felony menacing charge and the weapons possession charge and he
00:19:50
actually received no jail time for this he got three years probation in the plea
00:19:55
deal well the problem I have with this turd turkey is that he keeps getting these chances it seems like and chances
00:20:04
that most people shouldn't get and I just wonder if there like you said is there something with the military PTSD
00:20:12
or or anything where where is there something in the file that they're being so lenient because I mean being on a
00:20:20
being out in the woods and threatening people with a hatchet should be taken serious well I I'm certain that it
00:20:28
probably was I wonder if we have a situation where there's extenuating circumstances here that right that okay
00:20:36
so we're talking about an area that people probably travel to to stay be it for camping or any other reason I wonder
00:20:45
if some of these people that he threatened if they were out of Towners these are people that you would need to
00:20:51
testify against him in court right I mean who knows what their level is person personally are they willing to
00:20:59
travel out of town take a day off of work to testify against this guy meanwhile they might have the prosecutor
00:21:06
telling them there's not going to be a court date because he's going to plead guilty and therefore I think that we we
00:21:13
have this this plea deal that's worked out it was probably fairly lenient coming from the prosecutor's end but
00:21:21
again it it could be his some of his background may have led to it being what is ultimately I think I don't see how
00:21:30
anybody can look at it other than a lenient sentence yeah it's almost like he's getting these free passes out of
00:21:35
jail here you go detectives told Tim Watkins family that they had no evidence to link Nations to the murder scene
00:21:45
ballistic tests were inconclusive because the bullet inside Watkins was too deform to to match to a possible
00:21:52
murder weapon and according to local media DNA test were also inconclusive though it's unclear whether Nations
00:22:02
submitted DNA or what DNA might have been found if any in any event Nations was released from jail in Colorado in
00:22:11
January of 2018 with just probation he remains among multiple that's air quotes multiple people of interest in the case
00:22:22
said Kurt Smith an El Paso Sheriff's detective he says quote it would be nice if he gave a truthful statement to
00:22:30
police and he continued saying that's about the best thing he could do for himself to exclude himself from the Tim
00:22:38
Watkins murder case yeah but Indiana's not going to be done with him and they're going to extradite him from
00:22:44
Colorado yeah that's because he's facing charges in Three Counties for among other offenses failure to register as a
00:22:50
sex offender and possession of marijuana now for this he pled guilty and served some time in multiple jails
00:22:58
in early July he returned to Colorado Springs to that area to try to regain custody of his children who were taken
00:23:07
by children's services and were now the subject of a custody dispute between Daniel Nations and his wife Caitlyn who
00:23:16
had divorced him Nations gave a lengthy sorrowful interview to Colorado Springs Gazette in August in which he called the
00:23:26
Watkins allegations posterous and said I'm not what they made me out to be end quot he told the paper that he wants to
00:23:35
clear his name that he is a victim of all the rumor and speculation about Deli and the Mount Herman incidents Nations
00:23:44
admitted only to illegally possessing a firearm and for failing to register as a
00:23:50
sex offender in Colorado he said he took the plea deal in the hatchet case just to avoid jail time and that he did not
00:23:57
threaten anyone with a hatchet and Nation said he has too much self-respect as a former Marine to dress
00:24:06
sloppily carry extra weight and have longer hair like the deli composite sketch suspect he also said he has an
00:24:15
alibi he was at his wife's ultrasound on the day of the deli murders and that he
00:24:22
gave his DNA to the Indiana State Police now it is worth noting that Caitlyn did
00:24:30
apparently have an ultrasound appointment that day but she says she thinks Nations was with her but
00:24:39
cannot be certain yeah Nations also told the newspaper that his children are his
00:24:44
life and that any run-ins with people in the Colorado Woods he may have had were
00:24:50
because he was trying to protect his kids mountain bikers were zooming by too close to their tent so he placed logs on
00:24:58
the path and had a confrontation with one writer while he happened to be holding a hatchet the episode on the
00:25:05
road he said was when another car almost ran them off the road endangering his family he admits to having anger issues
00:25:14
driven by his PTSD but says that he would never attack anyone but we know he attacked his wife Caitlyn who has said
00:25:24
that she is afraid of him she said publicly she is Afra of it this show is sponsored by better help
00:25:41
do you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's
00:25:47
natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can
00:25:53
counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel
00:26:00
grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better
00:26:07
help a try it's entirely online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to
00:26:12
your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist
00:26:18
at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with betterhelp visit betterhelp.com
00:26:25
Garay to get 10% off your first month that's better help hp.com you know what's Bleak shopping
00:26:37
for home Basics like toilet paper holders entryway Hooks and jewelry organizers it's like big businesses not
00:26:42
only have a vendetta against the Earth but also against giving us attractive quality options for home accessories
00:26:48
ditch the plastic and Elevate the mundane with saffran everyday a woman run sustainable brand for durable
00:26:54
minimalist HomeGoods made from steel visit saffran everyday.com and use promo code undercase pods for 15% off your
00:27:01
first order of colorful Home Essentials that's s a r n everyday.com Rosetta Stone is the language learning
00:27:09
program with a lasting impact I've been using their R to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but
00:27:15
actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an
00:27:22
awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access for ever for anyone
00:27:28
keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a game changer all right cheers mates cheers to
00:27:49
you Captain I'm I'm cheersing the glass right now we have glass between us now in the studio so I can't cheers you
00:27:58
directly I'm I'm I'm just cheersing the glass that now separates us well for all
00:28:03
of our old episodes where there wasn't glass between us go to the Stitcher app download it it's free and check out our
00:28:10
bonus weekly show called off the record on Stitcher premium yes yes we are like Howard Stern and Robin Quivers they've
00:28:18
they've had to separate us all right so where we left off was they they basically said eh we don't think nation
00:28:25
was involved as far far as Tim's death or at least they can't connect him to the crime scene right and so we're
00:28:34
taking him back to Indiana because there's a possibility he's involved with the deli
00:28:41
murders but he'll he'll eventually move back to Colorado or at least go there to
00:28:46
attempt to gain custody of his children what we do have is some statements from police regarding could Daniel Nations
00:28:55
have been involved in the deaths of Abby and Libby and this comes from October 3rd in
00:29:02
2017 when the Indiana state police stated that they could not specifically include or exclude Daniel Nations as a
00:29:11
suspect in the deli homicides right but on the anniversary of Liberty Germaine and Abigail Williams death this is in
00:29:21
February of 2018 the State Police Superintendent Carter announced Nations was quote not a person
00:29:31
that we care a whole lot about at this point in time end quote they went on to say that until the
00:29:40
perpetrator is caught Nations will technically remain a person of interest in the case but Carter said that they've
00:29:47
talked to many Persons of Interest and identified these Persons of Interest have been identified in 30,000 tips
00:29:57
right and he stated that we feel confident that there was no involvement uh for those of you who believe that Nations
00:30:05
resemblance to the sketch is uncanny that can be hard to swallow and I and I know that he remained and
00:30:12
probably will remain a suspect in that case as far as you know the internet slle go in in that population right um
00:30:22
here's the thing though that's tricky about the deli case and about Daniel Nations as being a possible
00:30:31
suspect is there any reason to believe I mean it doesn't take much to jump to the
00:30:36
leap that possibly there was DNA found in the deli case and that they took a sample from
00:30:43
Daniel Nations and it excluded him yeah that's the speculation right I mean we we don't know for certain if there was
00:30:52
DNA that was found in that case but you know uh if there was I mean for for them
00:30:58
to say that he's I mean what was the quote he's he's not someone we really care a whole lot about at this point in
00:31:05
time regarding their investigation I'm guessing they don't because if they did and they tested him and he didn't match
00:31:12
then they would say we cleared this individual and it's time to move forward mhm but I mean we speculated from day
00:31:19
one whether or not they had DNA and the deli murders and I'm saying they don't because all these guys that keep coming
00:31:27
forward as possible suspects it takes some time normally a couple weeks and then they say we're not really
00:31:34
interested in that person they're not clearing people well you can clear people if you have DNA right and I just
00:31:40
don't think they do well the other thing too I've heard Daniel nation's voice in
00:31:46
several interviews MH and it doesn't line up with the audio that we have from the deli murders that's in my down the
00:31:53
hill clip right and that's just in my untrained ear mhm I I want to throw this caveat out there that I think that the
00:32:02
audio clip from the deli case the down the hill clip I almost feel like it's too fast too short to really try to line
00:32:12
it up with the with somebody else's you know a sample of their voice from something
00:32:17
else the other thing too which would be difficult for Daniel Nations to be the perpetrator it it it certainly throws a
00:32:26
wrench in the possib ility is okay so hatch we have this questionable Alibi was he at the ultrasound with his wife
00:32:35
that day or was he not right she's afraid of him too so is she making this stuff up well but no she's the one that
00:32:43
says I I don't I can't say for certain that he was there right she says I think he was there but I can't say 100% but I
00:32:50
think they normally have multiple times where they do an ultrasound so that's where she could be confusing where it's
00:32:57
like H was he there at that one or was it a different one the thing that's not in question is she did have one
00:33:04
scheduled for that day that seems to be that's that's been combed over you know and and looked through already that did
00:33:11
happen there was one scheduled for that day so where I'm going with this is let's say if he was there then that
00:33:19
excludes him he has he has a legitimate Alibi he couldn't have been right the bridge guy yeah but if if he wasn't
00:33:27
there with her the thing that puts the throws a wrench into that investigation as him being a
00:33:33
suspect Daniel nation and his wife Caitlyn they shared a vehicle and he lived quite a ways away from Deli if she
00:33:41
was at the ultrasound with their vehicle and he was not he may still not have had
00:33:46
the ability right to transport himself to the deli area yeah how did how did he get there right yeah so yeah that
00:33:54
becomes a a big question and I know that Daniel Nations his whole thing kind of hijacks
00:34:02
this storytelling of Tim Watkins case yeah and it I mean it really does it it really overshadowed Tim Watkins case and
00:34:10
of course the deli case was national news yeah but I I think it's irresponsible in in the Tim Watkins case
00:34:17
to even rule Daniel Nations out why don't I think I don't think you can and I don't know
00:34:23
that I don't think their statement I mean we're not talking about an area that has a ton of crime and yes there's
00:34:31
people shooting guns a lot so there's multiple possibilities of an accidental shooting that is then taken to the next
00:34:39
level but we have a crazy guy that's what people call him that's what people that knew him call him a nut he's in
00:34:47
that area and he is threatening people with a a violent weapon and on top of that he has access to a gun that can
00:34:57
in somebody's life within a couple bullets mhm and he's the number one suspect in the Tim Watkin case as far as
00:35:06
I'm concerned and and if law enforcement doesn't have leads and they have nothing
00:35:12
to go on go back around again with Daniel Nations and see if you can come up with something right right and I
00:35:21
don't think that they've cleared him you know because their their statement is just simply we cannot connect to the
00:35:27
crime scene we have nothing linking him to the crime scene well the which doesn't mean we're they're like nope
00:35:33
this isn't our guy they're still leaving that door open right and there could be
00:35:37
some Avenue that they're going down and trying to connect him to that they're just not making public now Tim Watkins
00:35:44
murder case is it's still considered an open case I don't I don't know that it's
00:35:50
been technically ruled a Cold Case at this point and I know nowadays that's not really a phrase that investigators
00:35:57
like to throw around and I think right and I think it would be irresponsible uh to do so and they here's what we do know
00:36:07
though that more than 250 leads came into the El Paso County Sheriff's Office following the shooting including the
00:36:16
most recent substan there there was a there was some hope for this case in March of 2018 there was a uh they
00:36:26
publicly stated that there was a lead that came in that they were very interested in my guess is that it didn't
00:36:33
it didn't go anywhere because I mean here we are a year later and that doesn't seem to have materialized into
00:36:41
anything yeah the the term Cold Case that that's probably more for Hollywood mhm and that kind of thing but uh yeah
00:36:50
it doesn't seem like they have much to go off of and especially when you can't test the bullets mhm I mean that's a big
00:36:58
piece of evidence and you take somebody like Nations or you take anybody that caliber of
00:37:08
brainlessly that would possibly be able to go from an accidental shooting to homicide you're talking
00:37:19
about his body's 50 yards Tim Watkins body was 50 yards roughly from his Bic Le mhm and they didn't find him and they
00:37:30
were searching for him right so hopefully one day somebody's hiking or riding their bike and they
00:37:41
stumble upon a gun and maybe that will be the big break M because with all this let's let's just
00:37:50
say Daniel Nations had another gun that he he could have easily disposed of this gun and if somebody
00:38:01
was if somebody was of the right mind well I can't say that because they would be a murderer but if they're trying to
00:38:09
actually cover up the fact that they murdered somebody you're again it's vastness where you could bury a gun and
00:38:16
nobody's going to find it m well we also have we still have the lawsuit to get through this was the one
00:38:25
that uh was brought forward by The Gazette by the newspaper yeah because there's some interesting stuff that is
00:38:32
brought to light due to that lawsuit so on July 20th this is of 2018 of last year in the course of testimony during
00:38:41
the lawsuit initiated by The Gazette remember they're seeking the release of Tim Watkins autopsy reports the
00:38:49
newspaper was looking for information as to the number of shots uh the bullet trajectory and distance and any wounds
00:38:57
to the body a prosecutor and top investigator on the case both testified during this lawsuit and during their to
00:39:07
testimony they said that unless new Clues surface an arrest is unlikely while authorities hope that
00:39:14
someone comes forward with new information the hunt for Watkins killer or Killers has otherwise potentially
00:39:21
turned into a Cold Case um th this is what we talked about last week Captain when you and I first started talking
00:39:31
about uh Tim Watkins case and we actually have had his case on the books for um what a handful of weeks if not a
00:39:39
couple months yeah and so we both kind of briefly looked into this as we were leading up to this week but last week
00:39:47
was the first time that you and I spoke about it in our in our interesting weekly meetings that we have yeah where
00:39:55
I become a uh psychopath and pick up the phone and give you a call and like they used to do
00:40:02
in the 80s I feel like we have a couple of scenarios here that are possible and and so a lot of
00:40:09
times look I I like to look at things like this you look when when you have when you have when you go to a crime
00:40:16
scene let's say you have things items that you could find that could lead to evidence but in some
00:40:24
sense if you have nothing there that too is evident so what I like to do is when
00:40:30
we look at these cases not just look at the case itself but look at the investigation to try to get some insight
00:40:37
into what may be law enforcement who have the details of the cases that know the specifics about the cases what what
00:40:46
are they working what angles are they working to try to for us on the outside looking in to figure out what is likely
00:40:54
has happened here mhm M and I really feel like the holding back of the autopsy it kind of and this is this is
00:41:04
not going to be this is going to be a bit of a Debbie Downer moment I think for the investigation but again this is
00:41:11
just my speculation I think that the holding back of the autopsy to me shows that
00:41:17
they law enforcement might firmly believe that this is a stranger on Stranger attack that it was a stranger
00:41:25
on Stranger murder and that they need to hold back what little information the murderer
00:41:33
would have that nobody else would have right so try to get a confession right if they if they happen along if they
00:41:42
happen to come across the right person the actual perpetrator and they get into a situation where they're questioning
00:41:49
them to get information that only he or she or they could deliver and why I say that this is probably a Debbie
00:41:59
Downer moment for I believe for the investigation is that these stranger on Stranger attacks are so difficult to
00:42:09
solve yeah these cases are incred I mean you you a regular murder case can be quite difficult on its own but then you
00:42:17
factor in that they have the two have no connection to one another the the victim
00:42:21
and the perpetrator have no connection to one another other than they happen to be and the same place at the same time
00:42:28
when the murder occurred and if they can't get any ballistics from any of the gunshots that's I mean now you can't
00:42:36
even link your victim to a possible murder weapon so unfortunately I feel like unless they
00:42:45
end up talking to the right person or like they say unless new Clues come to the surface unless the public comes
00:42:52
forward and says something then this case might go cold the other thing though here and now
00:43:00
I'm going to put in a little criticism if in fact they do know what kind of uh caliber of gun was used I
00:43:10
think that law enforcement should release that information and I say that because that might be the only thing
00:43:17
that you can connect your perpetrator to this crime because if you're asking the
00:43:24
public for help maybe somebody can REM look this happened this likely happened when most people would have been at work
00:43:31
it was during the during the daytime during the week so is there a wife out there
00:43:38
somewhere or a relative or a friend out there somewhere that knows you know what
00:43:43
I remember talking to so and so they told me they were going out to this area and to to sport shoot that day yeah and
00:43:54
they took their gun oh I've been out hunting with him or her I've been out I've been out shooting with this
00:43:59
individual and they have that caliber of gun well at the very least I could call
00:44:04
it in and say hey look this person's a good I believe they're a good person but I just want you to be aware they own
00:44:11
that caliber of gun they told me they were sport shooting in that area around that
00:44:17
time I mean it yeah is it is it the the uh significant breadcrumb trail that you
00:44:24
would hope for No but it's also a lead it's one more person to talk to it's something right right so I hope that if
00:44:33
they do have if they know the caliber of weapon that was used in this murder I hope that they come out and tell us at
00:44:41
some point they might not need to release the entire autopsy uh for us to have that
00:44:47
information it could still be helpful the thing with the autopsy though and we talked about some
00:44:53
speculation where some somebody interviewed kind of described what they saw when they were there when they found
00:45:01
Tim's body and I think what were probably another thing that that that kind of suggests to
00:45:09
me that this might be stranger on Stranger we talked about the scenario of Watkins possibly approaching this
00:45:16
individual right well the person in the interview said that there was possibly a
00:45:22
gunshot wound to the hand that to me almost seems like I mean can you kind of picture that in your head captain where
00:45:30
maybe the the first shot is an accidental shot that hits the front or hits the tire of Tim's Bike Tim gets off
00:45:38
the bike and decides to approach the person and ra and then they raise their gun and as a natural reaction you're
00:45:45
going to do a couple things you're going to hit the deck you're going to you're going to run or you're going to put your
00:45:51
hand up and I wonder if he confronted the person or saw that that to me kind of points to the the the suggestion that he
00:46:00
was looking and facing the person as they Ro as they raised the gun to him yeah it's just it's sad overall though
00:46:08
because Tim seemed like such a great guy and seemed like somebody like you said in his 60s but somebody that you'd
00:46:15
love to hang out with have a beer with yeah well well and those those type of people that are very passionate about
00:46:22
something they can be ins passion they can be inspirational when you when you meet them and when you
00:46:28
speak with them that's one of the reasons why we love going to Crime con right it's not so much that that you
00:46:33
know you could have a beer with Tim and you'd be like man I'm getting right into
00:46:36
mountain biking tomorrow it's more so that you see somebody that's so involved in something that they love and care
00:46:42
about that it could simply inspire you to dive further into something that you love and care about something that
00:46:50
interest you MH now one thing we didn't go into much detail of but I think we should discuss it here Captain is the
00:46:57
other cyclist that was shot in Colorado there was no connection or at least there's never been an announced
00:47:06
connection to Tim's case to the other case of a cyclist shooting in Colorado yeah correct so the details of that case
00:47:15
are this in in May of 2015 John jacobe was murdered while biking on a Royal Road in Windsor Colorado near Fort
00:47:24
Collins he was shot twice sometime around 10:15 a.m. the caliber of bullets has not been released jacobe was known
00:47:34
throughout town as a friendly grocer uh grocery store clerk right and Parks system worker and he rode his bike
00:47:43
everywhere there was seemingly no motive or reason for the jacobe murder police have forensically linked this case to an
00:47:53
April 2015 shooting of Corey Romeo I'm sorry Romero as she was driving on Harmony
00:48:03
Road in Fort Collins about 5 miles from where jacobe was shot these incidents took place two
00:48:10
years prior to Tim Watkin's death and 115 miles away from Palmer Lake but both of these so these cases pretty far away
00:48:20
are pretty far away but they have been forensically linked together and they both are solved to this day yeah and
00:48:28
then again you wonder is there a lone sniper somewhere and is there other shootings that have not been
00:48:37
reported because they've been misses and people just took it up you know with the
00:48:42
idea that I was on the trail and man a bullet almost hit me well was that bullet an accident or was it on purpose
00:48:50
well and then maybe possibly a different gun used in this Tim Watkins G case the
00:48:56
most recent development in Watkins case uh the trail head to limbal Canyon off of Mount Herman Road where Tim was found
00:49:04
was blocked off again with crime scene tape put up this was in August of 2018 nearly a year after Tim's murder right
00:49:13
now the El Paso County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Jackie Kirby would not confirm whether the activity was related
00:49:21
to the Watkins case only saying that the crime tape and Trail closure is part of
00:49:27
an active investigation yeah okay we can read between the lines meanwhile a year ago
00:49:34
someone put up a sign along the trail near where Tim was found reading to whomever killed Tim Watkins leave a time
00:49:43
and date and location let's finish this up you will not win this is not your Mountain this is our Mountain this is
00:49:51
Tim's Mountain the sign is no longer there but the frustration remains rest in peace Tim
00:50:09
Watkins well Colonel do we have any recommended reading why Captain yes sir we do this week we are recommending
00:50:17
shallow Graves the hunt for the New Bedford Highway serial killer this was actually a gift this book that I'm
00:50:24
holding right here M somebody sent me this for Christmas and I failed to bring along with me their name but you know
00:50:33
who you are you know who you are that's right I'm talking to you and thanking you but
00:50:39
uh thank you whoever you are not only want to thank them for this wonderful gift but I did I just completed the book
00:50:46
and it's very good so check out shallow Graves the hunt for the New Bedford Highway serial killer this is a case
00:50:51
that uh I think sending this book was hopeful in insiration that we would one day cover this case right and it's about
00:50:59
uh nine women aged 19 to 36 who were strangled and left along the highways circling New Bedford Massachusetts back
00:51:08
in 1988 shallow Graves check it out you can go to True Crim garage.com click on the
00:51:14
recommended page and we will have that listed there for you and for everything true crime garage check out true crime
00:51:21
garage.com and until next week you better be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause]
00:51:54
litter you know what's Bleak shopping for home Basics like toilet paper holders entryway Hooks and jewelry organizers
00:52:01
it's like big businesses not only have a vendetta against the Earth but also against giving us attractive quality
00:52:06
options for home accessories ditch the plastic and Elevate the mundane with saffran everyday a woman run sustainable
00:52:12
brand for durable minimalist HomeGoods made from steel visit saffran everyday.com and use promo code
00:52:18
undercase pods for 15% off your first order of colorful Home Essentials that's s a r an everyday
00:52:26
.