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details welcome back to our studio where we have a special guest with us today Tuan Sam from Froot Loops Tuan Sam
00:00:38
welcome it's my pleasure to be here oh and um it's Fruit Loops just so you know uh fruit fruit yeah fruit no it's Fruit
00:00:51
Loops the same way you say sto that's not how we say it fro Loops find the loopy
00:01:09
[Music] [Music] side [Music] welcome to True crab garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for
00:01:46
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that together we would like to point out that whether you
00:01:53
are a glass half empty or a glass half full person don't worry because here in the garage we offer free refill ladies
00:02:00
and gentlemen the captain and we also offer free kicks to the nuts it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks
00:02:06
for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are still trying to tame
00:02:16
the Hellcat from Brew dog Iron Maiden fans check it out more importantly Brew dog fans check it out Hellcat is light
00:02:23
crisp malty and hoppy with some notes of grapefruit peel garage grade 3 and 3/4 bottle cap
00:02:30
out of five Hallowed be thy name and cheers to our friends right here first up big cheers to Gareth and Olive in the
00:02:38
zero crime houndhouse a big shout out to Christie in Hartford Wisconsin and an even bigger shout out to Eric and Cal
00:02:45
stoga California and even bigger shout out than that Veronica in Hurst Texas and a much
00:02:53
larger shout out than that one goes out to Tom and Lancaster United Kingdom and last but certainly not least the biggest
00:03:00
of the shout outs to Mira listening and Minneapolis everyone we just mentioned well they were our friends this week
00:03:07
because they filled up that old beer fridge and for that we thank you yeah BWW you in beer run people always ask me
00:03:16
what's the best way to support the show hey Captain what's the best way to support the show you shut in your mouth
00:03:22
shut your damn go to the website buy something for yourself so you can look snazzy you support the show and get
00:03:29
something return and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
00:03:36
talk some true [Music] cry yesterday we spoke of some of the things that did not take place early on in the
00:04:05
investigation into missing college campus student Judy Martin's case today let's start off by talking about some of
00:04:13
the things that was done in the early parts of the investigation we done however this is after she's been missing
00:04:21
for 7 Days on May 31st a review of The Radio log and vehicle registrations run that night are made officers are spoken
00:04:34
to who were working on the night in question nothing out of the ordinary is reported security officer Matt stro is
00:04:43
spoken with he can't remember anything unusual from that night he did report that he is familiar with Ms Martin and
00:04:51
that she is prone to travel in late night hours riding a light blue 10speed bicycle stro also stated that she was
00:05:01
supposedly dressed in hooker's attire again his words on numerous occasions and was seen with males associated with
00:05:09
the drug culture the Lilac House Commons and Taylor Hill area were searched with
00:05:16
negative results officers investigated the following they checked those radio logs vehicle registrations and checked
00:05:25
for student status at that time the student security Aid incident reports for May 23rd and 24th were all checked
00:05:34
all vehicles passing the Midway and theater intersections were stopped on this day and questioned to see if they
00:05:42
saw anything strange on the 23rd or the 24th the Bike Room at inlan Hall was checked for a blue male 10-speed bike
00:05:52
the one that Judy would have owned never found Taylor Hall architecture students
00:05:59
were monitored for anyone who may have been there on May 23rd 24th and they checked the roof of dunar
00:06:09
the boiler room and all exterior entrances a ground search from Dunbar to Engleman was conducted at this time so
00:06:17
we're seeing ground searches here captain we're seeing that they're searching the buildings they're checking
00:06:21
anything that could be some kind of paper trail to either find and locate Judy or to find locate someone that may
00:06:30
have seen something or heard something or somebody that should be a suspect in this case they're coming up with nothing
00:06:37
here well a couple things College these guys she's known to be seen with guys in
00:06:44
the drug scene it's College the whole place is the drug scene where's this bike at why can't we find this bike the
00:06:52
bike to me has always been a big question this was her you know mode of transportation while on
00:07:00
campus the bike from my understanding has never been recovered in fact that was one of the questions that I asked La
00:07:07
enforcement when we spoke with them has the bike ever been recovered and they said no but part of that though too they
00:07:15
kind of said that the bike to them is not of great concern not 40 years later it would have been back then and they
00:07:23
said yes it would have been nice to have located that bike but they wonder that with her missing
00:07:29
we don't know where the last place she left the bike would be if it was under lock and key of course it would have
00:07:35
been found but it could be simply somebody stole a bike or simply someone took the bike they should know where
00:07:43
it's at I think the reason why it's not of great importance to them all these years later is because of that night and
00:07:50
the stories that they have from Witnesses some of them suspects some of them not but independent witnesses that
00:07:57
say that she was not using the bike that night yeah but here's my problem when you say she had about a football
00:08:05
field to two football field lengths to go back home that's enough to get on your bike but then once you put that
00:08:13
individual on the bike then to me the radius in which you need to search is a lot further away because she has the
00:08:21
capability of oh if I'm if she wanted to go a couple miles down the street to a bar or something she obious viously has
00:08:29
the means to do so detectives in law enforcement will spend the following day conducting more of their investigation
00:08:37
and part of the day starts off with them calling everyone in Judy's address book
00:08:43
no new information was gathered from those calls now detectives physically searched wooded areas that surrounded
00:08:51
the university a dozen security AIDS assisted in this search so they have multiple Detectives along with at least
00:09:00
according to the statement a dozen security AIDs that are helping with this search from my understanding from what
00:09:07
I've been told Captain is that the grounds the campus looks much different today than it did back then and for my
00:09:14
understanding is that you could walk 20 yards in one direction from some of these dorm buildings and be entering the
00:09:22
woods or be right in the middle of a wooded area and a lot more lights now they also searched dunar print
00:09:29
andelman Hall and all the wooded areas that surrounded the health center and across from Manchester Hall I guess
00:09:37
there's a coal dump area off of Roads Road r h o d s road that was searched as well on that day but like you stated uh
00:09:49
Judy she went to the all boy dorm room and there was at least five individuals that we know spoke with her so where are
00:10:01
we at on questioning them you're right Captain because now's the point where you've spoke with them at least once or
00:10:07
twice before now you need to follow up on those interviews because maybe someone hasn't been truthful or maybe
00:10:14
somebody remembered something of importance from that night so they speak with John Becky again and this time he
00:10:21
says that Judy came back to his room later that night at some point that night and she ret reved portions of her
00:10:31
outfit that she was wearing that night the glasses the wig and I believe the trench coat but the the statement there
00:10:39
it's hard to read so it's it's tough for me to translate what what that other word is but at least his statement says
00:10:47
that she came back to his dorm retrieved the glasses and the wig and she put them
00:10:52
back on and then left this is interesting here because this actually contradicts his statement that he he
00:10:59
gave to them before remember he says the slight variation being that he with a friend left to go to 711 and that he
00:11:08
gave these items to her before they left before he and the friend left we also have Jim kic who is interviewed again
00:11:17
and in this interview he's basically saying all the same stuff he does say that uh he signs a voluntary consent to
00:11:24
have his car and his room searched and they do follow up on this and they say that no signs of violence or any
00:11:31
evidence was found in either of his vehicle or his room at this time he does agree to take a polygraph now we've
00:11:39
mentioned polygraph several times already in this investigation and throughout our story and what I want to
00:11:46
point out here is there are a lot of people that do end up taking polygraphs what we are seeing in the initial
00:11:51
portion of this investigation Captain is people agreeing to a polygraph so when we say that someone agreed to a
00:11:58
polygraph that doesn't mean that they were immediately sat down and administered the test right then and
00:12:03
there or even that same day right here's where we come to another interesting and
00:12:09
kind of strange portion or event in our timeline this is on June 2nd 1978 so she's been missing for over a week at
00:12:18
this point and the report that police get is that Judy allegedly was reported to be at a
00:12:27
garage sale and while she's at the garage sale hey little little bit of self-promotion here we're always having
00:12:35
a garage sale at true Crim garage.com click on the store Page Judy is allegedly at this garage sale she's
00:12:42
speaking with the homeowners that are conducting the sale and she tells them that she was thinking about going to
00:12:48
South America or to Mexico and also mentions hitchhiking maybe that's going to be her method of getting to South
00:12:56
America or Mexico and she was purchasing some garments some clothing items for this trip or at least the people holding
00:13:05
the garage sale believed that's why she was purchasing these items again just like the other eyewitness that thought
00:13:11
he saw her get into a vehicle these individuals didn't know Judy personally that's correct they only know of her
00:13:20
because of the missing person's case in the Flyers and the News That's in the newspapers later that same day a man
00:13:27
named Jeff reported to police that he picked up a girl that he saw walking on May 31st she was out hitchhiking Jeff
00:13:37
says he does not know this girl's name but he picked her up offered her a ride and states that he took her to Taco
00:13:44
Fiesta sounds like a restaurant and Main Street and she stated during the course
00:13:51
of this car ride that she was going to get some shots so that she could go to Mexico or South America this is
00:14:02
interesting because it's kind of it's in line with the garage sale story but again we don't know that it means that
00:14:10
it's actually Judy or not but now we have the garage sale people and this Jeff guy coming forward independently of
00:14:16
one another both saying that they believe they may have spoke to and seen Judy after she supposedly had
00:14:23
disappeared but let's go back to her on again off again boyfriend Jimmy Jim Young on this day captain on June
00:14:31
2nd he is interviewed at Avon Lake Police Department and they they tape the interview from this interview they learn
00:14:40
more about Mr Jim young and during the interview he does consent to searches of his car and his apartment which were
00:14:48
later conducted and they report negative results meaning they found nothing of evidentiary value in either search but
00:14:56
during this interview Captain Jim Young tells the police because he's asked during this interview do you own any
00:15:03
firearms and he says yes I own several Firearms but apparently shortly before Judy's
00:15:12
disappearance he shot out the window of his apartment like accidentally fired the gun or the gun went off and it shot
00:15:21
out his window you'll shoot your eye out kid now he tells them I own several firearms and and you the police should
00:15:30
know that because after I accidentally shot out my window you confiscated all of my guns because I have a pending
00:15:37
trial for this incident so all of his guns were in police custody at the time that Judy went missing he also states
00:15:47
that he does not have any knowledge of Judy using any hard drugs young also states that Judy told him that she was
00:15:56
seeing someone at k State who was in Roc and that he was a nice guy but did not know the name of this individual one
00:16:07
thing that I find interesting here too Captain is that Jim young also states to police and detectives that he wouldn't
00:16:16
think that Judy would run away that she would take off on her own he said yeah she was impulsive at times and she would
00:16:23
like to do you know fun or wild things at times he goes she is spontaneous that was not her personality is what he was
00:16:30
saying that that he that she wouldn't just take off and I find that interesting because he is very much
00:16:36
considered a suspect at that time and for him to state that it's almost eliminating an out that he might have if
00:16:46
he in fact did do something bad that if he is responsible in any way for her disappearance well same with the hard
00:16:53
drugs but a key thing here we've talked about polygraph test and please don't throw tomato or eggs at me we we all
00:17:00
have the same suspicions of these tests but it should be noted when we are going
00:17:04
to talk about these that Jim young took a polygraph test and he actually took his polygraph test at
00:17:13
BCI yeah so at the BCI office there's if you want to set a bar High it would be tough to set it any higher than that for
00:17:24
portions of Ohio well I think one of the main reasons why me and you don't like him as a as the number one suspect would
00:17:32
be the distance away yeah he may not have an alibi for that night he says that he was home it was it was the
00:17:39
middle of the week he said he was home doing normal stuff he had to work that day work the next morning he said I
00:17:45
don't really have anybody that can verify that I was at home because I was at home by myself but according to BCI
00:17:51
he passes the polygraph test and as you just pointed out Captain he's at minimum
00:17:57
an hour's Drive away where we have several individuals by their own admissions that they were there with her
00:18:05
that night close to the time that she magically disappears so it's just another obstacle that gets in the way to
00:18:13
make him a suspect of any priority over these others so normally I like the boyfriend or the ex lover to be looked
00:18:24
at pretty hard but I think in this case the distance and also I like the fact that he is the one that points out look
00:18:33
she's not somebody to run away to me if you want to if you're guilty you're going to go you're going to throw out
00:18:40
the kitchen sink well she could have ran away with this other guy she could have
00:18:44
she always wanted to live in Chicago you know just make up a bunch of random stories to get the cops looking all over
00:18:52
the place and he's very Cooperative with the investigation it seems to me I get the impression that that this is a guy
00:18:59
that did care for her at one time probably still cared for her and he's just trying to help I think he's the
00:19:05
closest to being ruled out but obviously they're not ruling out individuals in this the case are you
00:19:13
ready for some more strange yeah in the timeline down for some strange yeah to me this is one of
00:19:22
the more bizarre points in the or events in the timeline on June 2nd detective Ross Jamerson of the this this is weird
00:19:32
because now we're going to see a whole different agency we've talked about Avon Lake Police Department the Kent State
00:19:38
Police Department this when you have this kind of case going on this is receiving some media attention and what
00:19:47
it looks like to me reviewing the file here Captain is that we have people that want to
00:19:55
help that they see something or hear something they want to pass along the information to the proper
00:20:02
channels they just don't know who to report it to mhm so now we're going to see a third agency get involved and this
00:20:09
is detective Jamerson of the Portage County Sheriff's Office who calls to advise that Daryl Dunlop their
00:20:17
dispatcher at the Sheriff's Office received a call from WHL radio that's a radio station that's
00:20:24
still around today from my understanding advis that they received an anonymous call from a male caller who stated that
00:20:33
Judy Martins could be located buried under a stack of pine branches a quarter of a mile from a burned down cabin at
00:20:42
Pippen Lake this would be in Towners Woods Park area in Brady lake off of Ravina Road detective Jamerson also
00:20:52
stated that an individual named Jack gray has been hanging around campus in the courthouse house in Ravina talking
00:20:59
about Towners woods and that this Jack gray said that he had done something bad in Towners woods so the sheriff's office
00:21:07
is calling to report two things these are I I don't want them to get mixed together these are two different things
00:21:14
there's an anonymous caller that called into a radio station claiming to know where Judy was buried and also there's
00:21:21
this weirdo guy who's hanging around the campus or and the courthouse and he's saying that he had done something bad in
00:21:29
Towners woods so this is just this detective doing his due diligence pointing out like this Anonymous call
00:21:35
came in we're not saying it's from this Jack gray right we're simply saying that
00:21:40
we also have an individual that said he did something bad in Towners Woods which
00:21:45
is a similar you know it's generally it's the same location as where this Anonymous caller is saying you would
00:21:51
find the body of our missing individual well with technology and some a little bit of Poli work maybe they're able to
00:22:00
identify this Anonymous caller well and what was great too Captain was the DJ that took the call the anonymous call
00:22:09
did try to pry some information from the caller he said hey hey what's your 20 hey we're playing rock and roll all
00:22:17
night wnbc wnbc so they interview the DJ and they talk with anybody that they can talk to
00:22:26
at the radio station his name was rock and roll Ralph and they said that the anonymous caller while they didn't give
00:22:33
their name or refused to give their name did provide an address now of course the
00:22:39
caller could just be throwing out somebody else's address but they tracked down the address to an individual that
00:22:46
they kind of knew or that one of the police agencies somewhat knew to a John Edmonds now his name is actually
00:22:53
reported differently in a couple different spots some places he's John Edwards but the majority of the time is
00:23:01
John Edmonds I think that's just a typo that it was in fact John Edmonds Police kind of knew who this guy was and I
00:23:08
think it's because he's he's out there man and so the detectives learn they go to this address the the address that was
00:23:16
given belongs to this John Edmonds and he claims to have psychic powers possible you never know you never
00:23:25
know uh the other description that they get from from the DJ was that the caller
00:23:31
was described as sounding fairly old and maybe having respiratory problems they don't ever State anything about John
00:23:38
Edmonds having respiratory problems or if he sounded to be old but he was not an old individual at the time of them
00:23:47
going and speaking with him he agrees to take them to a location in Towners Woods
00:23:54
what I'm getting at here Captain is while the caller could have just given some fictitious
00:23:59
address it sounds to me like when you go to the address and the guy's like yeah I
00:24:03
have psychic powers and yes I'll go to that spot with you in the woods that sounds to me like confirmation that he
00:24:08
was the caller they go to this spot in Towners woods and of course they don't locate
00:24:16
Judy Martins buried anywhere at that point but this John Edmonds to his credit seems to be
00:24:23
cooperative you know regardless of his his situation that day Nancy Martins remember this is Judy's younger sister
00:24:32
she calls the police department and she says that she went and spoke with the couple that was hosting the garage sale
00:24:41
and had a long conversation with them and they talked about the girl that could be her sister being at the garage
00:24:48
sale and this girl wanted to go to Mexico or South America now Nancy said after having this long conversation with
00:24:54
those two individuals she believed that they were in fact trying to help and that they probably did see and have the
00:25:01
conversation that they said they had but things that they stated about the person
00:25:07
that they spoke with at the garage sale she's telling police like this wasn't my
00:25:12
sister it may have looked like her she may have been about the same age but there were things that they were telling
00:25:18
me about this person that do not line up with my sister some good news in this investigation they are able to locate
00:25:27
the IND idual that they believe was at that garage sale the mystery garage sale customer yes on June 5th detective
00:25:35
Brandon located a female named Lori gumb minder she is the subject seen at the garage sale by the sniders they were the
00:25:44
ones hosting and the girl this was also confirmed that Jeff remember he gave somebody a ride a hitchhiker a ride when
00:25:53
shown a picture of this Lorry individual he agrees yes that's yes Not only was she the one at the garage sale but she's
00:26:00
also the girl that I picked up the young lady that I picked up right so she was located and spoken with and this was
00:26:08
some good detective work because what he did was he went to a location where you would go to get your
00:26:15
photo taken for for a passport so he goes there with pictures of Judy Martin saying hey have you seen anybody that
00:26:22
looks like her or her that came in here to get a passport so that they could go to Mexico or South America that's how he
00:26:30
ends up tracking down this individual so Nancy Martins the younger sister her suspicions were confirmed that it was
00:26:39
not her sister at the garage sale that [Music] day this show is sponsored by better
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[Music] [Music] today [Music] to the windows to the walls cheers everybody cheers to you
00:29:07
Colonel so much more more twists to get into in the Judy Martin's case the case just keeps getting stranger and stranger
00:29:16
as we go along here but nice to get some answers along the way well let me throw
00:29:22
out something for you and one of the things I was interesting in this case was you know she went missing in' 78
00:29:30
this is around the time the world would know a certain individual or come to know a certain individual Ted Bundy and
00:29:39
a lot of people when she first went missing started there was rumors flying around because here's this guy that he
00:29:45
went to college uh he would have been traveling all over the country possibly and is it possible because she looks so
00:29:53
much like his typical victim but one of things that you pointed out because you're the goat is
00:30:01
most if not all if not all victims of Ted Bundy were found and if it's your lunch break or breakfast Time cover your
00:30:11
ears people because that his victims were found simply because he didn't bury them he
00:30:17
didn't bury them because he would return and do things with the body have sex with it that's right and so that all
00:30:26
kind of makes sense in that's why I feel like we can't really Place him in this area at that time of the night in
00:30:33
question and there was one individual that again we don't know we'd have to see hardcore evidence of this but one
00:30:41
individual at least that states that Bundy was probably locked up or was in fact locked up at that time which seems
00:30:48
accurate to me uh he did have some ties to Pennsylvania so it wouldn't be out of
00:30:54
the realm of possibility that he could be in the area or passing through the area and of course a lot of his victims
00:31:00
were in fact college aged students yeah and he would have been serving time in 78 in um serving time in Florida oh this
00:31:12
was after the Florida so this would have been yeah so he it's not Bundy then we can sounds like we can put a a bow on
00:31:20
that one yeah put a bow on Bundy and also ban the tan sedan and I think too here captain Bundy makes an
00:31:29
interesting leap to another serial killer who has been thought of or actually two other serial killers who
00:31:37
have been considered as suspects or Persons of Interest in this case mhm the first being a William John posy
00:31:47
Jr he's of significant interest to me into this case because he is a serial killer known identified serial killer of
00:31:57
two women or some say at least two women and he was also known to be living in the Kent area at this time all right
00:32:06
that's interesting back in 78 in fact in one article he lived a 10-minute drive from the college campus and was found
00:32:15
hiding in the bedroom closet of a woman who he did not know or who did not know him creeper in
00:32:23
Kent and this is according to assistant chief of police John Peach so a couple issues with this individual one same as
00:32:33
Bundy as we don't even know yes he had an apartment not that far blocks away from
00:32:40
campus but that doesn't mean he was in the area at the time and there's some reports not confirmed but that there's
00:32:50
some reports that he was actually in jail that night in Columbus Ohio yeah so the the statement is that he was locked
00:32:57
up at least in the afternoon or evening hours of May 24th 1978 I don't know when he went into
00:33:07
lockup or into the jail but they have confirmation that he was in jail at that time so that would be an issue for him
00:33:17
to get rid of this body if he was involved in The Disappearance that took place in the early morning hours of May
00:33:25
24th the other with posie that I found very interesting in regards or he's in Columbus getting rid of the body that's
00:33:33
true good point uh one thing that I find interesting about posie though and this
00:33:38
is coming from law enforcement they firmly believe and of course nothing's 100% until this case is solved but they
00:33:48
firmly believe that had posy killed Judy Martins that he would have told them so
00:33:55
he confessed the two murders that he committed he confessed to both of them and in one case he tried to lead them to
00:34:03
the body that's never been recovered and I think that's another suspicion that people on the outside have that go well
00:34:09
not only did he kill two college aged females but one in one case the body was never recovered and that's what we have
00:34:17
here in Judy's case so that's the similarities but for me I think that's where the similarities end because one
00:34:25
of the murders Captain he was suspected of and actually convicted of the kidnapping of this young woman never
00:34:32
convicted of having killed her it was him it was posy who went out of his way when he was diagnosed to be terminally
00:34:43
ill he reached out to law enforcement and said by the way I did kill this young woman and this is how I
00:34:52
did it this is where I did it this is why I did it and I will lead you to her body
00:34:58
and those officials have stated outwardly that this man yes he was a murderer he's a horrible individual but
00:35:06
he was trying to get right with God before he died he wanted to confess to everything that he had done he wanted to
00:35:14
try to wipe the Slate clean if you will yeah and you know me I don't like to trust guys that use fake names but what
00:35:22
was the fake name he used you I knew you were going to put me on the spot and try
00:35:26
to make you say it and not me it looks like if I were to spell this it almost looks like
00:35:33
scorpion but it looks like he was using the name John T Scorpi or Scorpi Scorpi yeah but uh it looks like scorp cuz he
00:35:43
had a little weenie it looks to me almost like the word scorpion with an with a few extra vowels in it yeah
00:35:51
here's where things get a little more crazy if they weren't crazy enough for you yet if your if your head's not
00:35:57
spinning like a top then there's something you have your own issues here's the problem with this case is
00:36:05
when you first hear you go okay well there's not a lot of evidence and there's not but the
00:36:12
speculation and the twists and turns around what we don't know there's a lot there there's certainly a lot and to
00:36:21
pile it on more we have this really great article that ran about the case in August of 1983 and anybody that that's
00:36:31
able to locate this or wants some more information on this case this would be the first place that I direct them to
00:36:37
it's an August 7th article in the plane dealer of 1983 and it it was a magazine you know
00:36:44
that's a u newspaper but they also had a Weekly Magazine or monthly magazine M they ran a story that's simply titled
00:36:51
where is Judy Martins and it's a really good informative article on the case and you have
00:37:00
officers reflecting on the case five years after she's been missing and telling you what they did right and what
00:37:06
they did wrong and this article really drums up a lot of information and a lot of excitement from
00:37:16
the general public and it really causes a lot of people to start coming forward in fact there was
00:37:24
one detective that later said that this article in this magazine brought a lot of people out of the woodwork that they
00:37:32
started to get some more information on the case and maybe a lot of it was bad information but what this directly leads
00:37:39
to Captain is within a very short period of time the Avon Lake Police Department
00:37:47
receives a phone call stating that this is from an individual that works in law enforcement and States you know on this
00:37:56
this night very recently we had someone a woman that was brought in for prostitution charges being held here in
00:38:04
our jail and that it was Judy Martins I'm telling you that's who we saw now this is five years after the
00:38:12
fact the law enforcement agency basically says look it does resemble her it could be her although it looks like
00:38:21
you know not only has she aged five years but maybe drugs in a hard life have enged her
00:38:27
considerably in that 5-year time period there's so much weight given to this that Judy Martins must have dropped out
00:38:34
of school headed out of town and became a street walker in Cleveland that they start writing an article there's a
00:38:42
individual that wrote a lengthy article about this situation and States all the similarities between the two well the
00:38:50
first one we should point out is that when this female was booked at the jail she gives the name Judy Martinez right
00:38:59
that's not a not a far jump from Judy Martin that's one number two she looks almost identical to Judy Martins yes add
00:39:11
add in the drugs in the hard life right right but they're practically the same height they look very similar and this
00:39:20
article that I read even states that they had the same birth mark I mean it goes on and on it just rattles off a
00:39:27
whole bunch of what's what people need to know is that Judy at the time that she went missing they didn't have her
00:39:34
fingerprints on file so they couldn't even test for fing fingerprints at that time and they would they were under the
00:39:44
belief that this individual this Judy Martinez would not tell them would not be honest if she was in fact Judy Martin
00:39:53
so they get Judy Martin's Family involved in this her her mom or dad or brother or sister this is where it gets
00:39:59
even more wild they go down there and they meet this individual and you say more wild but I've actually seen read
00:40:07
heard multiple versions of this story and this portion of the story anyway and some of those versions say
00:40:16
that Judy's mother believed it was Judy other other versions of the story state that the family knew almost
00:40:24
instantaneously that it was not her that they as much as they wanted it to be her
00:40:29
it was not and they even felt that this this reporter that wrote several articles or at least one lengthy article
00:40:39
about this situation that he may have embellished a little bit on the similarities between Judy Martinez and
00:40:47
Judy Martins and made it sound you know like it was in fact the same person before
00:40:54
delivering at the end that it was not right now based off of they based this off of dental records that Judy Martins
00:41:01
had her four wisdom teeth removed and this individual still had her four wisdom teeth and of course somebody then
00:41:10
reports a week or so later that on very very very rare occasions someone can have these teeth removed and they can
00:41:17
grow back I don't know if that's yeah I don't know if that's real or not I've been told that that's a real thing but
00:41:23
I'm not a dentist I don't play one on TV and I'm not going to pretend to know can grow back yeah but the rumor is
00:41:30
you're anti-dentite my my wisdom teeth have not grown back I can I can only report what I know here makes a lot of
00:41:38
sense now well you also heard that they did a handwriting sample yes and do you know what the
00:41:46
outcome of that was I've seen I've seen that it matched but I'm not a big 95% and that's great and now now hold on
00:41:58
just I want I want people to understand s have this sink in a little bit for the
00:42:03
most part I don't buy the whole polygraph thing take it or leave it I think it's a it's a it's a barometer if
00:42:10
they don't want to take the test it's a barometer of where they're at and that's
00:42:15
why I believe that we should administer the test it shouldn't be allowed in the court no no no no but this joke of a
00:42:23
science should never be allowed in any anything and you have family members that are saying nope that is not Judy we
00:42:33
we have dental records that say nope that's not Judy but then 95% matching to to handwriting samples that this is her
00:42:43
so and and I bring this up because when people talk about the handwriting samples and the Jan Ramsey case just
00:42:52
knock it off this is junk science rant over right and I can't agree with you anymore there Captain there's uh there's
00:43:01
no reason to believe other than you could hug me some suspicions that this person was Judy Martins in fact the
00:43:08
original name she gives when she's arrested is uh sandre Lopez and then later says that she's
00:43:15
Judy Martinez I my guess here is look she's booked and she's going to be charged with criminal activity yeah and
00:43:23
she's probably willing to play along in some way or form she's street smart right she's going to see if hey if I
00:43:30
play along with some of this will it help me out of my current predicament yeah and one one time she was arrested
00:43:35
she said I'm George Lopez the next day she says I'm Mario Lopez well in in the end she denies being Judy Martin's her
00:43:45
family Judy Martin's Family says this is not her again there's a story where Dolores believed that it was right her
00:43:53
daughter and Arthur did not believe and nobody else in the family believed again
00:43:59
I think that portion of the story might be embellished or it's just it's just a brokenhearted woman saying or wanting to
00:44:05
try to believe that maybe there's a chance that this is my little girl that I've been missing and lost for 5 years
00:44:13
in fact Dolores Martins goes out of her way to tell the newspapers that poor young woman that I met there that day
00:44:19
was not my daughter but I'm here to tell you there was a good Soul there was a good child inside of that woman and I
00:44:26
feel bad for her and I wish her nothing but the best and I'm hoping that things can turn around for her so which is
00:44:32
surprising though because didn't she say some mean things to the family she said
00:44:38
you know at some point Judy Martins is better off dead yeah well that's coming from
00:44:45
somebody that's in a position that she's in well she she's probably a drug addict
00:44:50
and yeah yeah it's it's just another sad portion of this story where it's it's a
00:44:55
person that's lived a hard life and probably been dealt a bad deal yeah well and you feel so bad look I I used to say
00:45:04
people have the right to make the decision of whatever they want and it's not my place to tell people whether or
00:45:09
not they're doing drugs but then you start realizing some of them had no choice some of them got in a situation
00:45:16
where it wasn't just as simple as hey I went out to party one day and then things got out of hand some of these
00:45:22
people legitimately get into this situation I just feel bad for these individuals
00:45:28
because you know part of it is a is a the addiction is a sickness and they probably want to be dead so
00:45:36
they don't have to deal with the addiction but it's just sad either way well it's a downward spiral that they
00:45:42
really have no control over even if they want out and to get clean and do the right thing they they really don't have
00:45:50
in some cases as sad as it may sound don't have a choice in the matter at some point at the end of of the day here
00:45:56
Captain what we have here is a case that is over 40 years old nobody believes no
00:46:04
law enforcement agency believes it might sound good on the Internet or on somebody else's
00:46:10
podcast but nobody working the case then Nor today believe that Judy Martins is alive and that she left on her own and
00:46:20
started a new life somewhere I've been told and I think the evidence points to this and you brought
00:46:28
up something very interesting off Mike when we were discussing this case and we'll get to that in just a second but
00:46:33
whoever is responsible for her going missing their name is in this file their name is in that timeline of that night
00:46:40
in the early morning hours of the 23rd and the 24th this was not committed by Ted Bundy this was not committed by
00:46:48
William posie this was not committed by Sam little his name gets mentioned in this case too serial killer that was
00:46:56
known to drive through Ohio and may have uh several Ohio victims well I think one
00:47:02
of the things for him was he would do drawings of his victims and sometimes try to put the date of when they went
00:47:09
missing or roughly the time he the tough thing about this though is he'll he'll actually write 1986 or
00:47:19
1976 so sometimes his dates are wildly they they wildly vary but there is a couple women that could possibly
00:47:30
match her from that area but I don't know if they match up in as as far as timeline goes and there were some other
00:47:40
missing persons cases that Judy Martin's case gets mentioned in the same paragraph with
00:47:47
from time to time over the years and that's uh yavon regler who was 17 and went missing from that same area uh not
00:47:56
a college student she was working at a gas station by herself and it looks to me like somebody abducted her at the gas
00:48:03
station there was a Kathy marrow age 22 Y yavon regler and Judy Martins are still missing to this day I could not
00:48:13
find and I spent a good deal of time on this and it was a fruitless search here Captain I could not find any update on
00:48:20
Kathy marrow's case whether she was ever located found dead or or murdered or you
00:48:27
know any of those bad news things I couldn't locate anything on her I have suspicions that she was probably found
00:48:35
because yavon and Judy are both still listed on the Charlie projects website and other places where Kathy marrow is
00:48:45
no longer listed or was never entered on those databases and I find the the Charlie project website to be incredibly
00:48:54
accurate one of the more accurate if not the most accurate one out there when it
00:48:59
comes to Nationwide missing persons and if you're into missing person cases as much as I am please take the time even
00:49:08
just as much of a as a Starbucks cup of coffee $5 goes a long way to supporting them in their research and all the time
00:49:18
that they spend it's well worth it because if you've listened to podcasts throughout the years you probably
00:49:24
listened to hundred of cases and they all pretty much reference the Charlie project you're exactly right Captain
00:49:32
there are many podcasters many internet sleuths and U YouTubers that use this Charlie project website and it's Charlie
00:49:41
project.org for those that are not familiar it's uh Charlie with a Y go and take a little lookie on on that website
00:49:49
Megan Good runs the website and is doing very very good work as I like to say and
00:49:55
I hope those other podcasters and YouTubers are regular donors to her and to the Charlie project because I hope
00:50:02
and pray that that never goes away but again Captain this case sadly we're looking for a body here and another sad
00:50:12
aspect of this law enforcement has basically said you know if we would have had a body early on this investigation
00:50:19
would have went completely different and they believe that the person or person's
00:50:25
responsible would already be in custody that this would be a an easy case for them to to execute uh even with the
00:50:35
blunders and the delay of Kent State but Avon Lake did good work on this the Portage County Sheriff's Office did good
00:50:45
work on this the US Marshals were brought in on this case and those guys and girls are no slouches at all in fact
00:50:55
they were brought in because of the posy portion of this case because he was actually apprehended in Texas and the
00:51:02
two women that he killed were not from Ohio he he lived in other states throughout different portions of his
00:51:08
life in fact I believe one was in Vermont a girl that he knew a woman that he knew in Vermont and one was a woman
00:51:15
in Illinois so they're brought in once we have somebody who's already in custody and we have cases that are going
00:51:24
from State to state to state and so in this case here we are really looking for a body or looking for any of those
00:51:32
missing items that were never located the wig the imitation leather purse any of those garments that she may have been
00:51:39
wearing that night or any any form of identification or anything that she would have had with her that night that
00:51:47
is what they are currently looking for and circling back to one of the most powerful things in this case and it's
00:51:56
something that you said to me before we hit record when we were just chilling in
00:52:01
the garage and kind of spitballing about the case you said to me I said do you want a hit of this doobie you said at
00:52:09
any point in your research could you find could you find someone saying that Judy
00:52:18
Martins told them that she was returning to her room after hanging out with different people that night now there's
00:52:25
one portion in the timeline where she does tell a friend at her dorm building that she might return to her friend's
00:52:33
dorm after going over to visit with some of the fellas over at the male dormatory
00:52:40
MH but at no point out of all of these guys that saw her toward the end of the night and leading up to her
00:52:48
Disappearance in none of their statements does any of them say that she said that she was returning to her door
00:52:55
now a lot of people would go well doesn't that call into question the idea that maybe she was taking off or maybe
00:53:01
she went elsewhere and could have been abducted elsewhere of course it does but here's what I want to point out Judy
00:53:08
Martins probably did not have the opportunity to say that to anyone because this was probably not a
00:53:16
planned murder something happened in the course of a conversation or activities that night that led to some kind of
00:53:26
struggle she didn't have the opportunity to say that she was going home that night because somebody stopped her from
00:53:32
going home that night and I think we talk about this from time to time here in the garage unfortunately in some
00:53:41
cases the perpetrator or perpetrators get lucky and here we might have that situation Captain where all of the
00:53:49
students leaving campus and the holiday break coming up and Kent State not jumping in right away on this may have
00:53:58
helped the perpetrator or perpetrators get rid of this body and conceal this body and it's not been
00:54:07
found and they got rid of evidence they cleaned things up they got their stories
00:54:11
together yeah to me it's very simple she was we have no eyewitness that saw her after she was in the all male dorm room
00:54:21
and I just as much as the next guy or girl love a good story right I love a good mystery it's very intriguing to
00:54:27
hear that oh there was this mysterious person that was arrested for charges in Cleveland and she looked just like Judy
00:54:34
Martins and had the same birth date and birth mark and this that and the other thing there was this mysterious Shopper
00:54:40
at a garage sale who looked just like Judy and said that she was going to South America M that stuff is very
00:54:47
intriguing it wasn't her at that garage sale it wasn't her who was picked up in Cleveland sometimes a cigar is just to
00:54:55
smoke and sometimes the the answer is obvious and it's right there in front of you and here that's exactly what we have
00:55:03
with this case those people those individuals that by their own admissions said that they were the last ones to see
00:55:09
her that night one of them or some of them are responsible for this and one of them may have done it all by themselves
00:55:17
I have a firm belief and a very strong suspicion and plenty of reason and plenty of reasons why to believe that
00:55:25
even if one individual took this young woman's life that they probably had some help in getting rid of her
00:55:37
[Music] body as always thanks for listening tell your friends tell your brother tell your
00:55:50
mother how about some recommended reading Captain yes sir this is a mustre you know there are such weird
00:55:57
coincidences at times in our lives here I was a few weeks ago discussing some case with someone they're telling me all
00:56:04
about this case that I had never heard of before the case involved twin brothers one of them was killed it was
00:56:10
originally ruled a suicide and there's a police cover up and a pack of teenagers
00:56:15
this is a case out of columia Maryland in the90s and as this person was telling me more and more about the case I kept
00:56:23
saying wow this is such an interesting in case why have I not heard of this case before so then just a couple of
00:56:29
days later I find this book called losing John a teens tragic death a police cover up and a community's fight
00:56:37
for Justice by David Parish it's a book on that case so this book kind of found me I didn't go
00:56:44
looking for it and I would not have known about this case if I hadn't been talking to the person so I love those
00:56:50
interesting little coincidences so do yourself a favor and check out losing John by David Parish you'll be reading
00:56:56
through this almost two unbelievable to be true true crime books and you'll ask yourself the same thing why have I not
00:57:03
heard of this case before oh and another weird thing here captain in the story Christina Gutierrez the lawyer who
00:57:12
defended Adnan SED was the attorney for one of the major players in this story again that's losing John a teens tragic
00:57:21
death a police coverup and a community's fight for Justice by David perish and you don't have to write that title down
00:57:27
right now because you will find it on our recommended page at truecar.com and until next week be good
00:57:35
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