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[music] >> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage, wherever you are whatever you're doing. Thanks
00:01:51
for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a [music] man who's been skipping around the garage in a
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Jaylen Brunson jersey. Here is the captain >> with no pants on. It's good to be seen
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and good to see [music] you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. This week we are drinking Putt Putt
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Lemon Tea Logger by the good folks at Road Map Brewing Company. This is an Arnold Palmer inspired beer that packs
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lemon and tea flavors into a lightbodied, easy drinking logger. Great for a day on the course or in the
00:02:30
garage. ABV 4% garage grade four out of five bottle caps. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good friends
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that helped us fill up this old fridge for this week's show. First up, a cheers to Pam Brown in York, Alabama. And a big
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we like you jib goes out to Bryce from Memphis, Tennessee. And here's a shout out to Mary from Scarsdale, New York.
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And also, let's do a very special Ron Swanson, please. And thank you to everyone who dropped by our booth at
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Crime Con in Las Vegas to say hello and chat with us. It was wonderful to see all of you again and to meet a lot of
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you for the very first time. Cheers. Yeah. BW beerun [music] for everything true crime. Check out true crimegar.com.
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And Colonel, that's enough of the Bas. >> All right, everybody. Gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk
00:03:22
some true crime. [music] >> [music] >> Kathy Paige was only 34 years old when she was found slumped forward inside of
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her own car, a black Mercury Tracer. The first facts investigators settled on were stark and brutal. She had been
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beaten and she had been strangled. Later, a rumor would circulate that came about by way of claims that she had also
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been raped, perhaps while being strangled. What never changed, even as details were debated and theories
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hardened, was the way that the scene looked at first glance to some people, like a tragic accident that simply
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happened at the wrong bend in the road. But the story did not stay an accident for long.
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Kathy's body was discovered on May 14th, 1991. And over time, her death came to be one
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of the longest unsolved cases in southeast Texas. People would say her name with the kind
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of familiarity reserved for local tragedies that never found resolution. And from early on, many in the
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community, even within the wider conversation around the case, would point at one person again and again, her
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husband, separated from her at the time, Steve Page. More than three decades later, those accusations and suspicions
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remain part of the case's shadow, while Steve Page remains a free man. This is the killing of Kathy Paige, the
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case that would not close. And this is True Crime Garage. >> [music] >> Kathy Paige was born Lucille Catherine
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Falton on January 8th, 1957 in Vder, Texas. She was the daughter of James Falton and Dorothy Anne Fulton.
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And for most of her life, she went by Kathy. Family members described her as gregarious, someone who could be a lot
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of fun. And the way people spoke about her made it clear she wasn't only remembered for how she died. She was
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remembered for how she moved through her life. Social, outgoing, and as some put
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it, a pretty blonde who attracted attention in her hometown. Vider itself sits in western Orange County, part of
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the region known as Southeast Texas near the junction of Interstate 10 and Farm to Market Road 105, roughly 6 milesi
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northeast of Bowmont and Rose City. It is described as a bedroom community, quiet residential, tied to the economic
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gravity of the refining complexes in Bowmont and Port Arthur and connected to the broader Bowmont Port Arthur
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metropolitan area. Kathy worked as a waitress and one of the places associated with her life was the Hoffra
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Steak and Grill House on North 11th Street in Bumont, Texas. It was described as a popular restaurant
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serving Texas style country cooking. Pork chops, ribs, fish, shrimp, and steaks were all featured on the menu. In
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later years, the location would change businesses. What once had been a steakhouse became the Crazy Cinjun
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restaurant, a seafood spot known locally. Kathy Fulton would eventually marry Steve Paige in November of 1978 in
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Jefferson County, Texas when Kathy was just 21 years old. Steve Paige was a local insurance salesman who loved
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basketball and who swept Kathy off of her feet. In those recollections, Cathy's family initially approved of the
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relationship and approved of Steve Page. Kathy's older sister would later say in
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an account attributed to the Daily Mail, quote, "I thought he was a really nice guy, and multiple family members echoed
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that they liked him in the beginning." They eventually had two daughters, Aaron, who was born the year following
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the marriage, and then Monica, who was born in 1983. They were married for over 12 years and
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it is said that the relationship was marked by breakups and makeups. Over time, however, at least one of Cathy's
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sisters, Sher Valentine, said that she had doubts from the early on stages in the marriage. She described Steve as an
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arrogant man, and she said she never felt that he was the kind of companion that she would want for her sister. She
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also characterized Kathy and Steve as being opposites, as if something fundamental didn't fit, even when things
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looked good from the outside. This captain will bring us to 1991. And by May of 1991, the marriage was
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ending. This is according to just about anybody you could talk to that knew both
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Kathy and Steve. By 1991, the relationship between Kathy and Steve was described as finished, done, and over
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with. Kathy was said to be asking for what she called a friendly divorce, and Steve had reluctantly agreed to move out
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of the family's home. Now, there are multiple closely spaced events described in the days leading up to Kathy being
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found dead. And some of those are events where people say that they had been arguing. That seems very likely
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considering that we know that the marriage was pretty much over by this point and Steve had secured another
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place to live at this time. However, he's not living there just yet. So, he's in the process of moving some of his
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belongings out of the family home and getting set up in this new space. May 11th, 1991 is often reported to be
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either the last night that Steve stayed at the family home or the first night that he stayed at his new living
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arrangement. Some reports state that it was a an apartment. Others state that it
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was a condo. It wasn't terribly far away from the family home. But like we had said with Kathy asking for what she was
00:10:54
calling a friendly divorce, this was going to be a situation where the parents, both of them wanted the other
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parent to remain involved in the kids' lives and work together to continue to raise their daughters even though they
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would be living in separate dwellings. >> Yeah. And she might have been calling this a friendly divorce, but we don't
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really know what Steve thought of this. And >> now you can ask for a friendly divorce.
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Doesn't mean that you're going to get one. >> Right. And your definition of of a
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friendly divorce could be different than what Steve thought was a friendly divorce.
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>> May 12th, 1991 was a Sunday. And the family of four, they're going to spend the day together. This was planned in
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advance. So, Steve and Kathy spent the day with their family, taking their two daughters to the beach. Later, Steve
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fried shrimp for the family. The day was one that was supposed to be truly like the last normal good day together, all
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four of them. They already had plans in place for the four of them to spend the day together. But again, by this day,
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Steve would spend the night away from the house. And as said, he moved out of the house, and it seems to be 100%
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official by this Sunday, May 12th. >> Yeah, reading this, it made me wonder if Steve thought if I just play nice, maybe
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our onagain, off-again relationship will just go back to on again. That seems to
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be the way that the reports have held up to this day where Steve said, "Look, I think she was just going through a phase
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and she would come out of it and we would resume our time together." But the people that knew Kathy seemed to think
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like, as said, it was finished, done, and over with, >> right? But sometimes in a relationship,
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what the person is telling their partner as opposed to what they're telling their
00:12:55
family could be two different stories. >> Regardless of what's going on and what
00:13:01
they are telling people, the general narrative keeps circling back to the same idea. Steve is leaving. He's moving
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out of the home, but he will still be present in the household, the typical household setup, helping with the
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children as reported by all sides. Right >> now, this is going to lead us to May
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13th, 1991. So, Steve reportedly came back to the family house. This to help the children
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get ready for school that morning. And he drove them to school and he made some business calls and returned to
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the home, or at least as it's reported, to the home before noon. Now, he says that afternoon that Steve and Kathy
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washed one of the vehicles, family vehicles together. Later, they went separately. So, they drove separately to
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the ballpark for the girls baseball games. The girls are playing in two different baseball leagues or softball
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leagues. Details become more vivid here as if the ordinary is being pinned down because everything afterward
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becomes contested in this story. Kathy was described as wearing blue jeans and a green shirt at the ballpark. After
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Monica, one of their daughters, after Monica's game ended, Kathy took Monica home. It was said to be Cathy's normal
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practice to park next to the house if she arrived home first. A lot will be made about where people parked in the
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driveway. I'm not going to lie to you here, Captain, or try to sell you a bill of goods here. I I didn't couldn't
00:14:45
understand exactly why because there's some other things in this timeline that are much more questionable throughout
00:14:54
the telling of this true crime story that I think our listeners will agree with me on that front.
00:15:00
>> Yeah. But also sometimes parking is just out of habit. But if Steve is not in the house and not
00:15:08
staying at the house, why would it matter? She can park wherever she wants, >> right? What may have been considered
00:15:15
someone's spot prior, that seems to to me wouldn't matter anymore at this point. What we do know is Steve stayed
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at the ballpark with their other daughter, Aaron, until her game ended. This was much later in the day. So, he
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then returned to the house. And it's reported that this would have been as early as 9:00 p.m. or could have been as
00:15:39
late as between 9:30 and 1000 p.m. At some point late that night, the story splits into parallel tracks.
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Okay, we're going to have Steve's account and Kathy's communications with a friend and what police later said they
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learned about Kathy being with another man that night. So this is where everybody agrees that they all went to
00:16:05
the ballpark separately. They all returned to the family home separately and at some different times.
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>> But after this point really everything can be called into question here. >> So Steve's version of what happened that
00:16:22
night includes this. He said when he went back to his new place. So he he actually drops off his daughter and then
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goes to his new what would be his new residence. He says he arrived there late May 13th. But he
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says once he's there, Kathy called him and asked if he would come back to the house and stay at the house because she
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wanted to go over to a friend's place or go out with friends in Bmont. Now Kathy
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worked as we said as a waitress. So I would imagine her schedule isn't a traditional Monday through Friday 9 to5,
00:17:04
>> right? >> So this would make a lot of sense. And it sounds like Steve was working a more
00:17:10
traditional Monday through Friday 9 to5. So, she clearly plans on being out late
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if she's asking Steve to stay over and then that way he's there to get the girls up, get them ready for school,
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take them to school like he had did that earlier that day, >> right? >> Or she would return at some point and
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take over those duties. That part, that understanding of what they had worked out doesn't make its way to our report.
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But also, if you're Steve and you're thinking, "Hey, I'm trying to get my foot back in the door. Hey, I'll be over
00:17:48
there. The closer I'm to her, the more family man that I am, the more chance that we have of getting back together."
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>> Couldn't hurt. Could not hurt. And it even if you that wasn't your desire, there's no reason that your divorce,
00:18:07
your separation from your wife should don't let that ruin your relationship with your daughters. And keep in mind,
00:18:13
the daughters are still young at this point. They're 12 and 7 years old. So leaving them alone would not have made
00:18:19
sense that night. So the other part of the story which doesn't really refute what Steve is saying, it's just
00:18:30
more information and different information. Okay, so we have Kathy's friend and coworker. Her name is
00:18:38
Charlotte Swearing and she's going to play a big role in the story because Charlotte says that Kathy called her
00:18:46
around 9:30 p.m. or maybe as late as 10:00 p.m. that night. She said that Kathy told her that she was going out
00:18:55
and reminded her Charlotte not to answer her phone that night if anyone called. Okay. So, she's requesting this of her
00:19:07
friend specifically in case Steve tried to call Charlotte's home. >> Right. She's telling Steve I'm going out
00:19:14
with Charlotte, but she's really going out with somebody else. >> Right. You and I are going out together
00:19:19
as far as he knows. If he calls your home and you pick up the phone and I'm not home or on my way home by that
00:19:25
point, he's going to know that I I'm not doing what I said I was going to do. Charlotte knows what's going on. She
00:19:33
knows that Kathy was meeting a particular man. Now, she does say this is the only time that Kathy had ever
00:19:42
asked her to cover for her while she was meeting a man. In all of the accounts, people know who this man is, but in all
00:19:51
the reports here, Captain, the man is identified only as Tom. So, what we do learn is that Kathy had was meeting this
00:20:00
Tom, another man at a hotel in Bowmont on the night of May 13th, 1991. This is approximately 6 miles away from her
00:20:10
home. From my understanding, this is a man that she met while she was at work. And it sounds like this guy
00:20:18
traveled for his b for his business or for his career. and he would often stay at the same hotel in town. So, take that
00:20:28
information for however you want it. The general story here becomes that Kathy left his
00:20:36
presence around 2:00 a.m. or so. Other phrasing in the account places Kathy leaving Bowmont at 2:30 a.m. However,
00:20:48
regardless if it was 2 a.m. or 2:30 a.m., nobody confirms having seen her alive again after this timestamp.
00:20:57
>> Right. >> Charlotte, her friend, described another moment that night, saying that around
00:21:03
12:30 a.m. her phone at her home rang. She picks up the phone. The caller hung up without speaking a word. She said
00:21:12
>> could be Steve, could not be Steve, >> right? We we don't know. She said that
00:21:17
that night uh she had received hang-up calls. She had also received hang-up calls on other
00:21:24
occasions and she has stated that she assumes that on some of these occasions, if not all, it may have been Steve, but
00:21:32
again, she has no way to confirm that. We cannot confirm that. Charlotte also said that Steve called her around 3:00
00:21:39
a.m. This time she speaks with him. He's looking for her, looking for Kathy, >> which is reasonable because if he's
00:21:45
going over pretty late at night, he's not going to, you know, if she's leaving at 9:30 or 10:00, you're not going to
00:21:54
expect her back in 2 hours. But after 3 or 4 hours, you'd probably start getting pretty worried.
00:22:01
>> Yeah. And so there's no reason to believe that Steve did not call Charlotte in the early morning hours.
00:22:10
The only thing that comes into question here is that time shifts in different tellings of this story. So
00:22:18
>> Charlotte has always said he called her at 2:30 a.m. Steve has told people that
00:22:23
he called Charlotte at 2:30. He's told other people he called her at 3:30. He's told other people he called her at 4:30.
00:22:30
So he he doesn't deny calling Charlotte, >> right? >> What time did that actually happen?
00:22:35
>> Now, let's back up here a little bit >> to earlier that night because some of
00:22:41
these details could be true, could be fiction, but they're going to matter either way. So Steve says that when he
00:22:50
arrived back at his family's home, remember Kathy, he said, "Hey, could you come back to the house, watch the kids?
00:22:56
I'm going out." He says when he arrived back at their home, Kathy was getting out of the shower. She was wrapped in a
00:23:02
towel. He said one thing led to another. This led to them having sex on the carpet. So on the floor in the
00:23:10
living room area or the living area. Now, one thing I want to be clear about here because I've seen some very good
00:23:18
reporting in this case, but I've also seen some bad reporting. actually some very bad reporting in this case which
00:23:25
can be easy to happen when you have a lot of he said she said they said kind of stuff going on here which we we will
00:23:32
see that will be the case here but for the purpose of clarity some reports refer to this as the lounge
00:23:41
area. If you do enough digging and you read all the reports out there, you will come to the conclusion that the living
00:23:49
room and the lounge are the same. It's just called different depending on who is
00:23:55
>> right >> telling you what went down. In his account, Steve says they have sex in the
00:24:00
living room, which look seems like a very strange place. You've got two kids inside the home. You know, you have a
00:24:06
master bedroom >> that you two share together at one time. They're asleep, but wouldn't be my first
00:24:13
choice. >> But also, they had a nice day as a family, so it's not out of the realm of
00:24:19
possibility. And then if she's going to go see another guy and she's worried about Steve finding out, well, if we
00:24:27
have sex real quick, he's not going to assume that I'm going to go see another guy after we just had sex. He says that
00:24:34
Kathy left the house between 11:15 and 11:30 p.m. He described her clothing and items with specificity, saying that she
00:24:44
was wearing a gray blouse, white pants, white shoes, a watch, earrings, and a wedding ring. He said that he watched TV
00:24:52
briefly and then went to bed sometime between 11:30 p.m. and midnight. and he was sleeping in his underwear under uh
00:25:02
blankets. And it's I can't confirm this because this is not in most of the reports, but in at least one report, I
00:25:11
found that he was sleeping in a guest room, not in their master bedroom. So, this would make sense to some. I would
00:25:20
think that he's sleeping in a different room. if she intends to come home and then go to bed that night, maybe they're
00:25:26
not going to sleep together that night. His story continues into the early morning.
00:25:32
>> Just because you sleep together doesn't mean you sleep together, right? >> He says Kathy never came home. Instead,
00:25:39
a paper boy found Kathy's car near the home and it appeared that her vehicle had crashed into a ditch and Kathy is
00:25:51
found inside and dead. Now, after Kathy was found, it was reported that she was wearing the same clothing
00:26:00
that was stated by Steve that she was wearing when she left the home. However, there were some critical items that were
00:26:11
missing. Accounts say that her socks, her watch, earrings, and he said she was wearing a wedding
00:26:19
band, but the reports say any rings were missing from her body and from the vehicle. The absence became part of of
00:26:29
those items become a big part of this mystery. not just what was missing, but what it suggested about where Kathy had
00:26:36
been that night, how she had been handled, and whether someone had tried to alter what the scene would say to
00:26:44
investigators. So, what we have to point out here, Captain, is what is probably obvious to most of our listeners. The
00:26:55
way that the vehicle is positioned and how it is found to the untrained eye would suggest
00:27:02
vehicle accident person inside died in the car during that accident. >> Yeah. What would be learned is how she's
00:27:13
found in the vehicle those missing items and later the later the autopsy would confirm that she did not crash her
00:27:25
car. She did not die in that crash and in fact she was murdered and everything is suggested that she was placed in that
00:27:36
vehicle and someone staged that scene to make it appear as if she crashed her car
00:27:42
after a night of drinking with her friends on her way home from hanging out. So, police said that they were at
00:27:50
the scene soon after 5:00 a.m. on May 14th, 1991 when Cathy's vehicle was found nosed down in a ditch near the
00:28:00
intersection of the I 10 Service Road and West Boulevard Street. Remember, a paper boy had discovered this vehicle.
00:28:08
The car was described as half hidden and located only a short distance from Kathy's home, so only about 100 yards.
00:28:16
She's roughly a football field or less from her home. So, some might look at this and go, "Well, she almost made it,
00:28:23
but she crashed into this ditch." But one thing that I found reported in I believe it was two of the reports out
00:28:32
there, Captain It, this this part makes no sense if someone is trying to stage the scene to make it look like she was
00:28:40
driving home and crashed into the ditch and was killed. the vehicle was was positioned in a way that it was not
00:28:49
heading it it's not pointing to or toward her home. It's pointing the opposite way.
00:28:55
>> Right? >> And all the reports say the same thing that it had to have been staged to
00:29:00
resemble an accident and they point to these different items here that there was very slight damage to the vehicle.
00:29:07
There was no evidence to suggest that she realized that she was going to crash and attempted to slam on the brakes. To
00:29:15
the investigators, the evidence suggested the car had been rolled slowly into the ditch rather than
00:29:22
crashing into it. The car was described as extremely neat and clean with the exception of two What a burger cups that
00:29:31
were found on the floorboard. >> Right. The rear view mirror was turned left and touching the windshield.
00:29:38
Kathy's body >> were the cups from that night. Do we know? >> I have no idea. Kathy's body was in the
00:29:44
driver's seat. Her purse was upright in the passenger seat. So upright, right? Like the the cups on the floor might
00:29:53
suggest that there was some kind of crash. Her purse just kind of chilling there in the seat suggest otherwise. In
00:30:00
my opinion, she wasn't wearing a seat belt. Her head was tilted to the right, leaning against the headrest. And there
00:30:07
was most of the reports out there state that there was no blood in the car. So, to be
00:30:14
as fair as we possibly can, let's say there was very little, if any, blood in the vehicle at all. Yeah, this part has
00:30:20
always troubled me because I go, is this a staged crash or is this a situation where crime happens, our victim is
00:30:30
deceased and the vehicle goes into drive or goes into is placed into drive or placed into neutral and and then the car
00:30:39
just ends up doing what the car does and nobody because the victim's dead, they can't they're not controlling the car.
00:30:45
Injuries and such are reported as Kathy's nose had been broken. There were marks on her interpreted as indicating
00:30:53
she had been strangled. The reports suggest that it was someone using their left hand.
00:30:59
Closer inspection revealed transfer blood on the inside of her clothes, which investigators took as an
00:31:06
indication that the clothes had been put onto her body after injury was inflicted. Okay. So, we should note
00:31:14
here, captain, that there was blood at the back of her head, but no other blood was visible at the scene. Again, her
00:31:20
nose had been broken. Marks on her neck indicated she'd been strangled with the left hand. And that transfer blood
00:31:26
inside her clothes is a very troubling matter here because again that's an indication that that she was attacked
00:31:36
and likely killed and then redressed after injury was inflicted. Police also would say that blades of grass on the
00:31:48
underside of the back of her jeans suggested that her body at some point had been dragged. Uh, she was wearing no
00:31:55
makeup. She wore no watch. She had no jewelry on and of course no wedding band. What people that knew her best
00:32:06
would later state is that Kathy was notorious for removing her makeup and jewelry before going to bed. First
00:32:15
responders moved her body and placed it into an ambulance for transport. The vehicle was taken in for processing.
00:32:21
Meanwhile, two police officers went to Cathy's home. When officers arrived at the Page home, they noted that no lights
00:32:29
were on. [music] [music] Hi besties, it's Tanks. If you need a little inspo, a little tough love, or
00:32:48
just someone to tell you that everything is going to be okay, come hang out with
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me on my podcast, It's Me, Tanks. We talk dating, confidence, friendships, healing, leveling up, and all the things
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drop every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. So whether you're on your hot girl walk, commuting, or hiding from
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00:35:02
and the guy. >> Raise him high >> to this guy. >> So, we have this accident scene, right?
00:35:09
And keep in mind, a lot of the stuff that we're about to go through here, Captain, they're going to be processing
00:35:15
this scene at the same time that these activities are taking place. So, these investigators that are going to arrive
00:35:24
at the Paige family home, again, about a football field away from where the crash, if you want to call it that, took
00:35:31
place, they're likely armed with some information, but not the majority of the information that we just covered. And
00:35:38
they say that when they arrived there that the lights, all of the lights were off inside the home, as one would expect
00:35:47
when a family is inside sleeping, >> right? >> So, they knock on the door. Steve Paige
00:35:52
is the one who opens the door. Now, one of our and this has been something that that people really hate about this case
00:35:59
and it's come under the lens of suspicion over the years. One of the officers on the front porch of the home
00:36:07
is Detective Mosley. Now, it's important to note here that Detective Mosley and Steve Page knew each other for most of
00:36:16
their lives. They grew up together on the same street. They went to the same school. They've known each other
00:36:21
practically forever now. Some reports state that they were friends, that they were tight friends. Other reports simply
00:36:28
state that they grew up and they've known each other their entire lives. >> Right?
00:36:33
>> The key factor here being that if you are reading an article that is suggestive of a police cover up, and
00:36:41
every one of those articles, Detective Mosley and Steve Page are very good friends.
00:36:48
And the articles that don't hint at a police cover up, they are simply two guys that grew up on the same street,
00:36:55
went to the same schools, and have known each other their entire lives. So, the officers say that Steve answered the
00:37:03
door wearing only his boxers. When asked about Kathy, he tells them she's not here and asks the police if they are
00:37:13
knocking on their door regarding her. M >> Detective Mosley noted something that
00:37:19
would later be repeated time and time again in this case. >> Yeah. The tip of Steve's penis was
00:37:25
showing through his boxer shorts. >> Well, he says that when Steve stepped outside to talk with them, he he looked
00:37:33
toward the direction of the crime scene or the crash. >> Okay. >> Before having been told what had
00:37:40
happened. Okay. Now, that on the surface when we have the detective noting things
00:37:44
like this, and you'll see other things that detective mostly noted in his reports, to me, that's suggestive that
00:37:51
the police weren't covering, specifically mostly covering for Steve Page. He He's saying, "I'm suspicious of
00:37:58
this guy right away because he's looking in the direction of the crash scene, >> right? He shouldn't know what direction
00:38:04
the crash scene was, >> right? We've not told him anything yet. However, I will go out of my way to
00:38:11
defend Steve Paige here. >> Can only look one way or the other. >> Well, and given the short distance
00:38:17
between the crash scene and the home, look, there's there's police cars there. That's that draws everyone's attention
00:38:24
all of the time. >> So, >> and and and my question would be, do they have their lights on? Cuz if they
00:38:31
have their lights on, that's where you're going to look, >> right? I would imagine they have some
00:38:36
form of lights on to at least light up the scene. Now whether that's the blue and reds. We we don't know. But so also
00:38:45
on the front porch with Detective Mosley is Lieutenant Carter who accompanied the
00:38:51
detective to the house to tell Steve that they had found Kathy Paige dead. They go inside to deliver this
00:39:00
information and the lieutenant says in that moment that Steve became very emotional that he threw himself on the
00:39:09
couch and started crying out loud. However, Detective Mostly observed and reported that Steve had no tears during
00:39:19
this moment. And both officers say that Steve did not ask to see his wife, nor did he insist on going to the scene of
00:39:30
the crash. Now, we need to keep in mind they're telling Steve that his wife is dead,
00:39:36
>> right? They're not telling him I'm not going to the scene of the crime, >> but or the scene of the crash. They're
00:39:43
not They're not telling him that she was murdered, >> right? >> They're telling him that she's dead,
00:39:47
that her car was found in a ditch. Leave Leave it up to him to put those pieces together. And while there, they both
00:39:57
officers say they were there for about 15 to 20 minutes between the time on the porch and the time inside. This is where
00:40:04
I think they made their mistake. I don't think they should have left or at least
00:40:07
left one of the officers there. They did say that during that time period, at least once or twice, they had asked
00:40:14
Steve to turn on the lights in the house. He did not. So, even when they entered the home, he didn't turn on the
00:40:21
lights inside the home. The officers noted that there was clothing on the living room floor.
00:40:30
>> That's bizarre. >> So, remember Charlotte Swearen? Kathy's friend. It's >> It's both bizarre. Turn on the lights,
00:40:40
you you you freaking weirdo. And also, okay, his story about them having sex on the living room floor. Okay, fine. But
00:40:50
you're going to pick up the clothes afterwards. Charlotte Swearing said Steve called her between 5:30 a.m. and
00:40:58
6:00 a.m. on that morning. During this call, he's wanting to know where Kathy was. [snorts] Charlotte told him, she's
00:41:07
still going along with the whole setup here, told him that they had been out together and that Kathy left to go home
00:41:13
around 2:00 a.m. or so. Charlotte then called the hotel where Kathy's friend was staying, but no one answered.
00:41:22
So, in >> aka man meet, >> Steve's version of this is that he woke up just before 6:00 a.m. realized that
00:41:31
Kathy wasn't home. He called Charlotte and then within minutes of that phone call, police arrived while he was about
00:41:38
to get dressed. Yeah, they should have stayed at the house longer because then they could investigate. But at this
00:41:46
point, I don't know if law enforcement knows that it's a murder scene and not a crash scene.
00:41:52
>> I think for the officers or detectives that viewed the vehicle and Kathy inside, I think they're suspicious that
00:42:02
it's a murder, but it's not 100% confirmed at this time. Now, later that morning, Kathy's father, James Falton,
00:42:11
will have to tell his children. So, these are Kathy's sisters that she is dead. One sister described the moment
00:42:19
with a an image that that stuck with me. She says her father arrived they they were supposed to do something together
00:42:27
that morning. And she said her father arrived not in his overalls but instead in his dress clothes. And she said just
00:42:36
the sight of him right away before he even spoke told her that something was wrong.
00:42:41
>> Right. So, dad tells Kathy's sister, "Kathy is gone." She asked him, "Gone where?" He answered, "No, honey. She's
00:42:51
she's gone. She's dead." So, the family gathered with Steve and Kathy's daughters. From my understanding here,
00:42:58
Captain, the daughters woke up around 8:00 a.m. They don't describe, they never describe as hearing anything
00:43:06
unusual that night or any noise that night. They woke up at 8:00 a.m. Now, this is a
00:43:12
considerable amount of time after the police were on the front porch in my humble opinion here.
00:43:19
>> Yeah. But in fairness, if there was a crime that took place in that house, we've had other crimes, other murder
00:43:27
cases where children have been home and heard nothing. >> Right. What I mean is I just me trying
00:43:34
to relate to this scenario. I find it odd that he didn't wake up the girls to tell them what had happened, but in
00:43:40
fairness to Steve, he he may have wanted to know the particulars of this before telling his daughters.
00:43:48
>> Yeah. And some people take a a while to figure out how to tell children that their mother has died.
00:43:57
>> Yeah. The it was Steve who notified Kathy's parents [snorts] that she had died. Well, that could be something.
00:44:06
>> Well, what's he going to do? Not tell them? Well, >> that would be really something.
00:44:12
>> Well, seen Stranger Things Peterson. >> His parents arrive when her parents arrive, excuse me, at the house. They
00:44:20
say that Steve was wearing red shorts and a white t-shirt. He was barefoot. And they noticed a scratch on his nose.
00:44:27
And they also say that Steve was doing laundry at that time. This is before the girls were awake. And they also stated
00:44:36
that he was wiping his hands and maybe and his face with a washcloth and that Cathy's bed appeared not to have been
00:44:47
slept in. Now, Steve would later deny doing laundry, >> right? >> Uh well, it's weird because he doesn't
00:44:56
there's a lot of reports say that he denies doing laundry. However, it's it is stated that one load of laundry was
00:45:04
done that morning and it was bed sheets. It was one of the daughter's bed sheets.
00:45:09
So, I think when they say he denies doing laundry, remember they arrive before the girls wake up. It sounds to
00:45:16
me if you were to put those items in order that he's admitting to doing laundry that morning, but it was bed
00:45:23
sheets and that would be after >> the kids have an accident. >> I have no clue. >> Yeah. So, possibly one of the daughters
00:45:32
had an accident. You got to toss the sheets into the washer, which makes sense. Hey, when I talked to him the
00:45:39
first time, yes, I wasn't doing laundry. Because if he was, you go, "Wow, that's
00:45:44
a weird time to be doing laundry. Is he covering something up?" Well, once the girls wake up, if there was a load of
00:45:51
laundry done, still I think it's a little bizarre because if I find out my wife and I understand that they're going
00:45:58
through a divorce, but they're on again, off again, and you're staying the night
00:46:03
there and you just had kitis, right? So, >> according to him, [clears throat] >> according to him, right? So, but you go,
00:46:11
okay, well, if all that's happening, um, and now she's dead and I love her and she's the mother of my children, I'm
00:46:21
[snorts] probably not thinking about doing laundry. >> Well, and without going down six
00:46:27
different avenues, >> yeah, let's go down seven. >> Well, for every person that says he was
00:46:32
doing laundry very early that morning, there's a person who says, "I was in the home and nobody was doing laundry that
00:46:37
morning." So, and really to simplify this, if we were to go down every avenue on every little detail here, we could do
00:46:46
10 episodes on this case that would bore the [ __ ] out of everybody listening. >> Yeah, that would be fun.
00:46:51
>> Okay. Uh, >> but here's the thing though, too, is sometimes you toss something into the
00:46:57
[clears throat] >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is there I don't think there's any reason to We're
00:47:01
just spinning our tires here because for every person that says there was laundry
00:47:05
happening at 6:30 in the morning, there's a person that was there and says laundry wasn't happening at 6:30 in the
00:47:11
morning. And keep in mind, Steve openly says his statement is, "I wasn't doing laundry that early. I did a load of
00:47:19
laundry after the girls woke up. >> Right? >> So, >> he's not even denying it, right?
00:47:25
>> If he's doing a lot of laundry, that's suspicious, right? If he's doing a washing a lot of clothes, washing a lot
00:47:30
of towels, whatever, that would be very suspicious. We don't know. We could sift
00:47:35
and sort through it as much as we want to. At the end of the day, we're not going to know. And I can tell you this,
00:47:41
>> 30 some years later, nobody else knows either. >> Yeah. But, you know, my middle name is
00:47:48
Spinning My Tires. Captain Spinning My Tires, Fat Hands. >> Uh, there are also at least one person
00:47:55
that say that they saw him carrying clothes as if it were laundry that he had just completed. We do have one
00:48:03
member of Kathy's family who when she's over there that day, Steve tells her that Kathy had been out drinking that
00:48:11
night and she was probably drunk and taking Valium and she went into the ditch and died.
00:48:17
>> Well, nobody should drink and drive, but the Val comment is, I think, interesting. Put a
00:48:25
pin in that. Yeah, but that his statements aren't will not be backed up by toxicology reports,
00:48:33
>> right? But >> he's still Yeah, but without without just being blunt, he's still trying to sell that
00:48:40
she died in a car accident in the ditch down the road, >> right? >> To anybody that shows up to the house
00:48:45
that day. Remember, they've not done the autopsy yet. They don't they don't know
00:48:49
exactly how she died. And of course, anybody that comes into his home, especially her family, is not going to
00:48:55
know what was found in her vehicle with her and what more importantly what was not found with her in the vehicle.
00:49:03
>> Yeah. But is he trying to sell it or is he trying to figure out what happened in
00:49:08
his own mind? >> Possibly. Possibly. But it gets difficult for me to say that. It gets
00:49:15
difficult for me to say possibly when I know other details that we haven't got to yet.
00:49:19
>> Right. So he told accord again this is according to her family and I want to be
00:49:27
very clear here this case is very difficult to go through because her family is all going to be in lock step
00:49:33
saying things that Steve did or didn't do that are incriminating. He will deny and counter
00:49:42
all of those and in some cases he has a person or persons backing him up. >> Right? So these claims get very
00:49:50
difficult to go through and to sort out what is real, what is factual, and what is fictional because Jan reported that
00:49:59
Steve told her that he did not want the Ver Police Department in his house because they would probably find blood
00:50:08
on the living room carpet because Kathy had shaved her legs in the living room. >> That's weird. There's a lot going on in
00:50:16
this living room. That's >> later that day. >> Another key part here is later that day,
00:50:22
Jan would say that uh Steve said that he didn't know that Kathy had a boyfriend.
00:50:30
She had no he had no idea that she had met uh a man at the hotel. Okay, so we got to be clear here because this is
00:50:38
where the timeline gets really dicey. You have a lot of people coming in and out of the home and a lot of people
00:50:43
having conversations with Steve. Some of them are police. Some of them are her family, some of them are just other
00:50:49
people, friends of his and whatnot. You have a lot of things going on. So, we have all these conversations. At some
00:50:56
point that day, it is general, it becomes general knowledge that she had met someone at a hotel the
00:51:06
previous night. So he's simply saying after that becomes somewhat general knowledge that he did
00:51:14
not know that she was meeting somebody that night. Didn't know she had a boyfriend as Jan states that Steve had
00:51:22
said the word boyfriend. Again, one big part of this timeline that shifts back and forth is what time did he call
00:51:31
Charlotte? So, Jan will state that he says that he called Charlotte at 3:30 a.m., not at 2:30 a.m. like Charlotte
00:51:40
says. And Jan also said that in another telling of that same story, he said 4:30
00:51:45
a.m. Now, to Steve's defense, Jan did say she did not notice any blood during the time that she was in the home. She
00:51:53
did, however, state that she saw laundry and hangers lying around the living room floor. But
00:52:01
what do we know from the toxicology report? >> There was no alcohol or volume found in
00:52:06
her >> system. Okay. And I'm not making an argument that there that there was a crash. I'm just trying to play this out
00:52:14
in my head. Is it po, you know, is it possible that she came home that night and let's say they didn't have sex
00:52:23
before they left or they didn't have sex before she left. and he thought, "Well,
00:52:30
I came over to watch the girls and you went out with your friends and you came back and hey, um, let's rekindle this
00:52:38
relationship." And then she said no and then the situation got escalated from then,
00:52:44
>> right? I think reviewing this, what it appears to me is he calls Charlotte's home. Charlotte fails to do
00:52:54
as instructed and picks up the phone and that tips Steve off that oh Kathy didn't
00:53:00
go out with Charlotte as she had told me. >> Right. >> And what the people that think that
00:53:08
Steve is guilty of killing his wife would tell you is that she had came home and all those items that were not found
00:53:17
on her and she did she didn't appear to be wearing any makeup. That's all suggestive to them that she got ready
00:53:24
for bed. He must have woke up, managed to kill her probably in that home in that living room, places her body in her
00:53:33
vehicle, and then manages to get that vehicle a short ways down the road and put it in the ditch. And oh, by the way,
00:53:40
he was too dumb to have it facing the right way as if she were driving home. >> Yeah. Or maybe he's not too dumb. Maybe
00:53:49
it's just physically not possible. >> Come up with a better way to stage the scene, my friend.
00:53:55
>> Yeah. >> Well, okay. So, as said here, the one of the biggest problems about this case is
00:54:00
going to be as I'm going to summarize it for you as simple as I can because this
00:54:05
will be the ongoing part about this case, the hurdle that is almost impossible to clear. Okay? So the events
00:54:13
of that day, well that night, that day, more important to say, everything that Steve did or did not do that day has
00:54:22
been highly scrutinized. I'll summarize it for you as for years to come, Kathy Paige's parents,
00:54:29
siblings, and friends will point to a dozen different actions or inactions of Steves,
00:54:36
pointing to those as suspicious. Steve counters all of their claims and in some cases he has someone to back him up.
00:54:44
Okay, so there's a laundry list of these different items that took place or did not take place that some say are
00:54:50
suspicious. Item number one, numero uno, has to be the autopsy. Okay. So later that day, the police returned to the
00:55:01
home and they told Steve Paige that they needed to conduct an autopsy on his dead
00:55:08
wife's body. Steve says, "You're not doing an autopsy." They said, "Well, you know, whether it's an accident, murder,
00:55:16
whatever, if somebody dies and it we we don't know that it's natural causes, >> right?
00:55:21
>> You're going to perform an autopsy." And he says, "Absolutely not. you're not
00:55:25
going to perform an autopsy. I don't want anyone cutting on her. So, it's James, which is Kathy's father, who
00:55:34
authorized the autopsy. Now, keep in mind, part of that autopsy is going to be that toxicology report. Yeah. Okay.
00:55:42
Now, also that day, he had told at least one person that Kathy had recently developed a drug problem. She was doing
00:55:51
cocaine >> at night and volume during the day. So again, to me, that's I think that's
00:55:58
trying to sell this crash idea to whoever's willing to listen, right? But if law enforcement is telling you,
00:56:07
and maybe not even your wife, just anybody, somebody that you love, hey, we don't think it was a crash. We think
00:56:14
there was foul play. You would absolutely want an autopsy to be done. Yeah, >> absolutely.
00:56:21
>> Yeah. Or if you thought as you were telling people that she was drunk and had drugs in her system.
00:56:29
>> Yeah. >> And and the crash was real, you would still want the autopsy. And of course,
00:56:34
toxicology is not in 1991. It's not going to come back that day. So he he can work that story for the time being.
00:56:43
Now, to further that, he has he stated two different ways. The police are not going to search my home. Why? Because I
00:56:51
think that you may find some blood or something in the living room. Again, why would I find blood in your living room?
00:56:57
Well, Kathy had been shaving her legs there. >> And she was high on cocaine, so she was
00:57:03
horrible at shaving her legs. >> And then her father is telling Steve, "Look, you you should just let the
00:57:10
police search the house. They want to come in and and take a look around. Just let them take a look around." And Steve
00:57:15
tells him, "Absolutely not. The police department is not coming in here because they've planted stuff on some of my
00:57:23
friends before, and that's not going to happen here." >> This guy is sounding more and more like
00:57:28
Scott Peterson. >> The police asked Steve about Kathy's jewelry sometime on that Tuesday. He
00:57:35
says that he looked in her jewelry box and the items in question were gone. But he does not let the police look
00:57:45
>> right >> in the house. So he would not consent to a search of his home. He is interviewed
00:57:52
on that Tuesday afternoon at the police state at the police station. Now in Steve's defense, remember we have the
00:57:59
family saying there was a scratch or something on his nose. The police did say that they an examination was
00:58:06
conducted at the police station of Steve's face and hands which revealed no marks or injuries. The following day,
00:58:14
we're now at Wednesday, May 15th. Other family of Cathy's is visiting the Paige home. This is where the drug rumors or
00:58:22
cocaine rumors are stated by Steve. Now, Steve did clear that up later. They said, "Look,
00:58:29
we found no cocaine in our system. Why would you tell? And he said, "Look, that's something that somebody had told
00:58:36
me that she was going through a phase, a party phase, and she was doing cocaine on occasion or experimenting with
00:58:42
drugs." >> In the moment, that's something that I thought of. Now, however, he was never
00:58:49
able to remember who the person was that had told him that. >> Yeah. But remember, he also made
00:58:54
statements that, hey, I don't know if we're going to get a divorce. I think she's just going through a phase. Is
00:59:00
that a part of it? And and also when you're going through even a breakup, it doesn't have to be a divorce, you have
00:59:08
mutual friends, you have people. So when you're having these conversations with people, well, we're just fighting all
00:59:14
the time and they go, "Well, I heard this rumor, right? or I heard that she was seeing somebody or there's a lot of
00:59:22
stuff that especially with the friends that are connected to both where they just kind of feed different information
00:59:30
whether that's correct information or not you you just get fed a lot of information.
00:59:34
>> True. But if someone told you that your significant other was doing a hard narcotic like cocaine,
00:59:44
>> I would wager that you would probably remember who the person was that had told you that.
00:59:48
>> Yeah. >> Unless this was unless this was a drug or drugs were in and out of your life
00:59:54
and her life, >> right? But it this seems like this seems a major statement for someone to tell
01:00:01
you that to the point that you would repeat it to somebody else later and then go, "Oh, well, I now I don't
01:00:07
remember who told me that." >> Just to play devil's advocate, it could be somebody that he's like, "This is a
01:00:11
close this is a close family friend, and I don't want to say who because that will make them look bad if it wasn't
01:00:20
true." >> But true. But he looks pretty bad saying he can't remember. >> So on on Friday, May 17th, Kathy Paige,
01:00:32
they hold a funeral for her. The following day, Saturday, at least one person claims to have seen Steve burning
01:00:38
something in the backyard. Steve would later explain that he had missed the trash collection day on Tuesday.
01:00:45
Understandable. His wife was, you know, finds out that his wife is dead that day. trash is probably not the first
01:00:52
thing on his mind. He says that he decided to burn said trash in the backyard. A big part of this statement
01:00:59
will become a mayonnaise jar full of grease. Okay, so he says this is one of the items that he burned that day. Now,
01:01:08
he says when he was going to carry it out, he was when he was carrying it out to throw it in the fire in the backyard
01:01:14
that it slipped out of his hand. He lost control of it and it it broke or the lid
01:01:21
came off and the grease, you know, people dump grease into jars all the time, >> right?
01:01:26
>> Cooking grease. He said that this spilled onto the living room carpet, which then forced him to have to do a
01:01:35
thorough thorough cleaning of this carpet to get that smell and the grease out of the carpet.
01:01:41
>> What? >> There's so many things happening. The people that think that he killed her
01:01:46
will suggest will tell you that oh he just happened to spill all that grease or at least based off of what he was
01:01:52
cleaning the location where he was conducting the carpet cleaning. He happened to spill that grease the same
01:01:59
spot that they had sex, which nobody has outright said this with the clothing that's on the floor in the living room.
01:02:06
But they are suggesting I guess the implication here is that if there were to have been blood on this
01:02:16
carpet at some point, he didn't need to he didn't have the time to clean it before anybody arrived that morning. So,
01:02:24
he had tossed clothing on top of it so it wouldn't be visible. And then there there's this whole argument about carpet
01:02:31
cleaning and and shampooing the carpet. Uh there was somebody in his family that
01:02:36
rented a carpet cleaner. You know, you can go to the store and rent them, but it wasn't Steve. It was one of his
01:02:44
family members. However, you have her family that says, "Well, we came over and it was multiple people cleaning the
01:02:49
carpet with Steve." And the interesting thing here though is he does not deny cleaning the carpet. It's just the
01:02:56
details of cleaning that carpet. >> Yeah. Just like he doesn't deny doing laundry.
01:03:02
>> Yeah. And he he says, "I didn't rent a carpet cleaner. I already owned one." >> Now, after the funeral, Steve Paige was
01:03:09
named as the prime suspect in the murder. This is after the autopsy found Kathy's makeup and jewelry had been
01:03:16
removed prior to her death, suggesting that she had made it home that night prior to being found in her vehicle in
01:03:25
the ditch. Now, back to them having sex that night. Remember, he says, he doesn't deny this. In fact, it's his
01:03:32
part of the story that they had had sex that night. Okay, so we got to clear something up here because what a lot of
01:03:41
people suggest as part of this murder is that she was raped and then killed and then the whole crash scene was staged.
01:03:51
>> Right. What happens here is the autopsy also revealed that Kathy did in fact have sex on that night on the night that
01:03:59
she died although no sperm was found in her body. Okay. Steve Page had a vasectomy operation and he admitted to
01:04:08
having sex with Kathy the night that of her death. Steve Page has insisted that there is no evidence of rape and said
01:04:16
that forensic evidence showed Kathy had been strangled by a left-handed killer. He says that he is right-handed,
01:04:23
although her family says that he's ambidextrous. >> Right. >> And this remains a point of contention.
01:04:29
And it seems like in 30 years, nobody's figured out if this guy's right-handed or left-handed, or really, frankly, how
01:04:35
much does it matter to the case, >> right? But the guy that she went to see at the hotel, did they have sex? Because
01:04:43
>> that man, while the details of her time there that evening have not been revealed, the police department has
01:04:52
stated that that man has been cleared in her homicide. >> Right. But they could have had sex and
01:04:58
he could have wore a condom. So >> true. But also what could be true is that in the heat of the moment, Steve
01:05:06
Paige raped his wife and murdered her and then put her body. >> Yeah. Wouldn't there be signs of that?
01:05:12
Because there's normally evidence whether somebody had sex or or whether they were
01:05:20
raped. >> Correct. Correct. The broken nose could be signs of the rape. the strangulation
01:05:26
could be signs of the rape, >> right? >> I mean, she had marks on her body. She was killed. Her So, her family would
01:05:34
tell you that that's what happened. That when he figured out that she wasn't where she said she was going to be, he
01:05:39
knew that she was cheating on him. And then when she returned to the home, she had just enough time to start preparing
01:05:45
to get ready for bed. he woke up or or was distracted or didn't have enough time, whatever that and then he
01:05:53
brutalized her before placing her in the vehicle. And some of those people suggest that maybe rape was part of
01:06:00
that. I don't know. I don't need rape to be part of that to >> no >> to believe that he killed her.
01:06:06
>> But also, let's let's not say that she was cheating on him. They're going through a divorce.
01:06:11
>> Correct. And I understand that it wasn't it wasn't finalized, but she >> a smarter man would have found her at
01:06:18
the hotel and presented that to a judge during the divorce proceedings. And uh >> the friendly divorce. Yeah.
01:06:25
>> Well, yeah, but it wouldn't it would have it whatever he needed to go in his favor would have gone in his favor
01:06:33
during that uh divorce. So, there's also disputes over whether Steve Paige was asked to take a polygraph test. He says
01:06:40
no. He was never asked, but her family, the Fulton, have publicly stated several
01:06:45
times that yes, he was asked, but he refused to take one. Now, in 1992, Kathy's family filed a wrongful death
01:06:53
suit after two grand juries declined to indict Steve Page on criminal charges. Okay, so it was brought to the grand
01:07:02
jury a couple of times. In 1993, enraged by the lack of progress in his daughter's murder case, James Falton
01:07:10
began a billboard campaign. This to draw attention to the unsolved case and to call out the police for what he saw as a
01:07:18
failed investigation. So, ever since 1993, James Fton had been putting up billboards in a field that sits beside
01:07:27
the I 10 freeway. And these billboards accuse Steve Page and condemn the police. His original three signs read,
01:07:38
"Vider police botched up the case, waiting for confession, and this could happen to you." Fulton also put up a
01:07:47
billboard in a local park that declares, "This is Orange County, city of Vider. Here you get by with brutally murdering
01:07:55
a woman." This signed by Falton in part says, "The Viter Police Department that did not solve my daughter's murder will
01:08:03
be assisting you with any complaints or problems of this so-called park." Well, again, the timing is difficult with this
01:08:11
one because if it would have happened a couple years ago, we could do some testing. If we find foreign [snorts]
01:08:18
DNA, then this could possibly clear Steve. But I'm guessing that they didn't have
01:08:27
some of these tests around and I'm sure that they didn't save some of the evidence to be tested later. These
01:08:34
billboards about his daughter's murder serve as the inspiration for the Oscar nominated film Three Billboards Outside
01:08:41
of Ebbing, Missouri. Now, anybody that's watched that movie, which is absolutely
01:08:46
great movie, will know that the crimes depicted in that movie look nothing like the case that we're talking about here
01:08:54
today. >> And also, it was her father that was kind of the the spearhead to keep this
01:09:01
in the news and keep this on people's mind. And in the movie, I believe it's the the mother.
01:09:07
>> Yeah. So the the individual that wrote that movie said that they started writing that story from seeing
01:09:16
billboards when driving throughout the country and didn't know any of the details. So these these billboards,
01:09:25
which he did have three back then, could be the, you know, seemed to likely be the inspiration for this individual to
01:09:33
write a fictitious story. And in 1994, Steve Paige was caught on camera kicking a bunch of flowers off of Kathy Paige's
01:09:41
headstone, off of her grave at the cemetery. That's bizarre. He says that the incident came about after he had
01:09:48
endured being baited and harassed by his wife's family. Of course, they disagree.
01:09:54
He was convicted, fined, and sentenced to probation for this this act. Shortly after being convicted of desecrating his
01:10:05
wife's grave, Steve Page moved to Houston, citing harassment from Cathy's family as one of the reasons for
01:10:13
relocating. Steve Page says the signs, the billboards are one of the reasons that
01:10:20
he left the area in 1995. He also claims that the billboards caused great grief for his daughters Aaron and Monica,
01:10:29
which led to them being bullied at school. Now, from my understanding here, Captain, the two Page daughters split
01:10:37
their the remainder of their childhoods between their father's home in Houston, Texas, and their grandparents' home in
01:10:44
Huntsville, and they became estranged from Kathy's family, the Fton. >> What happened in the wrongful death
01:10:52
case? It took a lot of time here, but what we end up with, there's a couple mistrials,
01:10:58
but ultimately the an Orange County civil jury found Steve responsible for Kathy's death. And the civil jury
01:11:08
awarded damages of $150,000 to her family to the Fultton, finding Steve financially liable for Kathy's
01:11:17
death. Again, this took a lot of time. This was well after the billboards and even after he had moved out of the area.
01:11:24
Now years later, tragedy would touch this family, this poor family once again. Monica, one of the daughters,
01:11:31
died in 2011 at the age of just 27 years old. This was reportedly by suicide. And some
01:11:40
accounts state that she had become addicted to prescription painkillers. and a toxicology report showed that she
01:11:47
had taken 25 Vicodin leading to her death. The other daughter, Aaron, would eventually move to Tennessee later in
01:11:56
life. And it's reported that she had no contact with the Fultton side of her family, but as of 2014, she recently
01:12:04
began talking with her father again. This is according to what he told Daily Mail TV. Now, in a series of blog posts
01:12:14
written by Aaron in 2014, she states that she believes that both the Fultons and her father, Steve Page,
01:12:22
are liars. In 2018, the case was profiled on the TV show Cold Justice. They interviewed dozens of witnesses,
01:12:31
and while it sparked renewed interest in the case, it didn't really lead anywhere. From there, the case would
01:12:37
stretch on year after year until it became what many in southeast Texas would call it, one of the longest
01:12:45
unsolved cases in the region. A death that never stopped being discussed and a name that never quite stopped waiting
01:12:53
for answers. In 2024, the police announced a reboot in the Kathy Page murder investigation. A reward has been
01:13:02
established through Crimestoppers of Southeast Texas for any information that leads to an indictment or arrest in the
01:13:09
unsolved homicide case of Kathy Paige. The number for Crimestoppers is 409833 TIPS. That's 409833
01:13:21
TIPS. And you will remain anonymous. >> Is there one piece of information that sticks out to you as
01:13:31
something you can't get past on whether or not Steve's guilty or not. >> I don't know why he wouldn't turn on the
01:13:37
lights. I don't know why he wouldn't want an autopsy to be conducted, >> right? >> The clothing on the floor seems odd. He
01:13:46
does have an answer for some of that. I I don't know. Every bit of his movements
01:13:51
seem unnatural to me. And look, the the items that were not found with her, if it were an accident, should have been
01:14:00
found with her. And we know it's not an accident. However, where are those items? To me,
01:14:09
that's suggestive that she made it home. And the the part beyond it being unsolved that bothers me the most about
01:14:17
this case is I don't see a cover up. I and I I hate that it is framed that way in some of the articles and reports that
01:14:28
have survived throughout this case. What I see is that I think that they were working behind the eightball because
01:14:36
they didn't fully know where she was that night for for a couple of hours that morning. However, police should
01:14:43
have, if you were suspicious from what you saw in the vehicle, an officer should have remained at the home, even
01:14:49
if he forced that officer to stay on the front porch. What I don't see is a cover
01:14:54
up. What I what I do see is, look, these homicide investigations, they have to be two things, thorough and
01:15:03
efficient. They have to move quickly and efficiently. And what did not happen here that would have solved every
01:15:11
question that we just threw at the wall at the garage wall on today's episode would have been answered if they
01:15:19
searched that home that morning. And I don't think it to me it doesn't seem inconceivable
01:15:27
that if I'm a detective and I'm going to a judge, I'm going to the brass and saying, "Hey, we need to get this in
01:15:33
front of a judge. He won't consent to us searching the home. I want to search the
01:15:37
home. Why? Because there's indications of a murder at this crash scene and she's found within a football field of
01:15:44
her home where her husband who they had recently split and he was going to be living elsewhere,
01:15:52
>> right, >> was staying that night. I think a search warrant would have likely been signed
01:15:57
off on by a judge and then we would not have to have relied on his friends and family or her friends and family to tell
01:16:04
us what they witnessed or what they did not witness inside that home on that morning when she was reported dead.
01:16:12
>> Yeah, I agree with you. the fact that this case, multiple sources kind of imply that there might be a cover up,
01:16:20
which is strange to me because Steve makes multiple comments of he's afraid that the cops are going to frame him.
01:16:29
So, but I think the biggest one to me is how are we going to get the answers to what happened? It's the autopsy [music]
01:16:36
and he doesn't want to have that performed. Very suspicious. >> [music] [music] >> Want to thank everybody for joining us
01:16:59
here in the garage each and every week. For everything true crime, check out true crimegar.com.
01:17:05
And Colonel, I think everybody should go listen to our Off the Thereord episode,
01:17:11
Agent Black. >> Yes, that will be the recommendation for this week. Make sure you go check out
01:17:16
that episode of Off the Record with retired FBI agent Barry Black. He's an expert in bombs. He was a sniper at one
01:17:26
time and we only got to scratch the surface of all of the war stories and significant historical events that
01:17:36
placed him at major crime scenes during the course of his career. >> Yeah, it was an honor to talk to him and
01:17:45
as we're talking to him, it was like the amount of like images that popped into my head as he was talking. It it was a
01:17:53
great interview. You should check that out. That is on Patreon or Apple podcast subscription. And until next week, be
01:18:00
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