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[Music] [Music] n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man whose Nemesis is Commander Krill here is the captain well
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] he he [Music] he he [Music] he late last year I received correspondence
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from someone wanting to learn more information about a case in which they had some ties to the
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victim here is a portion of that communication Carol an molar was murdered in 1983 and it tore the molar
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family apart her mother died soon after her body was found and her father later passed away without any answers as to
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what happened to his little girl her sister and extended family have yet to get Justice even though I was quite young at
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the time I can still remember her picture a young beautiful woman in her military uniform displayed prominently
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in Carol an's grandmother's house the only information I have about her murder is that it is still
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unsolved she was in the military at in Norfolk Virginia and one night she went missing she was found sometime later in
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the seaw wall on the Naval Base I believe she was found to be strangled and raped but the family never spoke
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much about the details from my research I have found that there are several theories please look into this case
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thanks in advance for your time and help this is a look at the still unsolved murder of US Navy Petty offic
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off Carol an molar and this is true crime [Music] garage Carol and Molar grew up in a
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loving household in Western New York Carol Anne was born September 1961 to Proud parents Joseph and Carol
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molar about 2 years later she got a little sister life was pretty normal growing up in a family of four Carol an
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was beautiful smart and driven she signed up for the US Navy and so off to both school and service she went in 1983
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she was 21 years old living with a roommate on Chesapeake Boulevard in Norfolk Virginia Norfolk is a waterfront
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city in Southeastern Virginia it's home to Naval Station Norfolk a massive Naval
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Base on Chesapeake Bay unfortunately this general area has been the location of several True Crime garage episodes
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most recently are apex predator episodes regardless of crime stories that we have
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covered from this local it is a beautiful area that holds significant importance to this greatest of Nations
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Carol an was ambitious and hardwork a yman third class petty officer working as a male clerk for the Navy during the
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day but Moonlighting as a go- go dancer under the name chrisy on the weekends this is going to take us to
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Friday Night February 5th 1983 Carol Anne was one of the girls dancing at the gallan club where at
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closing time she was said to be heading home where she lives with her roommate Deborah stutsky at
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8648 Chesapeake Boulevard okay so let's break this down a little further Carol is reported to have left the gallion
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club at 3:00 a.m. so now we are technically Saturday February 6th in the we hours of the morning her roommate
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says on that Saturday that carolanne never made it home that morning Captain we are only talking about a 10 to maybe
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15minute drive from the club to the home and 15 minutes is stretching it out quite a bit right so she lives not far
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from Virginia Beach this club was right on Virginia Beach so not a far drive and
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unfortunately this young woman does not make it home the only good news here is that the alarm is raised immediately and
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we get some good information her roommate Deborah stutsky has Carol's back their good friends not
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just roommates Deborah calls the local police she reports her friend missing that very morning she tells them to take
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the report seriously as Carol Anne would have either called the night before or at the very least called in the morning
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if she expected not to be home her roommate reports her missing tells law enforcement hey take this serious but
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also I can give you a description of what she was wearing that day she tells the cops that the night before when
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going off to work Carol Anne was wearing a fulllength black leather coat a pink sweater jordash jeans and black high
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heels the bolo beyond the lookout that hits the police scanners States provides a description to the beat cops saying
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Carol an molar is is 5T tall weighing 95 lb with blue eyes and shoulder length curly hair so we get the outfit
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description from the roommate and we also get the physical description of our missing person that is hitting the
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police scanners early on that Saturday morning so the call to action has been made and action is being taken to look
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for this young woman 21 years old so that's a good description and fast action but unfortunately on that
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Saturday she never comes home she didn't return after work the day comes and goes
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she never returns then on that Sunday she still does not turn up now the alert level will go from burrito to
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burrito supreme real quick this is when Carol Anne fails to show up for her regularly scheduled assignment that
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Monday so this is February 8th remember she's she is working for the Navy that's
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a pretty strict assignment pretty strict job her commanding officer jumps into action that Monday morning well look you
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have to be very serious when you own or operate a boat Carol Anne had worked at the Staff College assignment for over a
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year and according to the commanding officer she was a dedicated worker she didn't miss days and was rarely late Al
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Whitley back then was the spokesman for the Staff College he said that the Navy suspected Foul Play When Miss molard did
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not return to her apartment to collect quote so much as a toothbrush end quote the Navy did their due diligence
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obviously they checked in with the roommate they checked her apartment and calling Carol an's parents
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before going public Carol parents who lived near Buffalo New York had not heard from their daughter since prior to
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her disappearance so we get the Navy calling this Foul Play right from Jump Street
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here Captain yeah which is abnormal because normally law enforcement goes we're just going to assume that she ran
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away right and what we have here is we're going to have the Navy will be directing most of this investigation so
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I never having been in the Navy I'm taking a little bit of a guess here my guess captain would be our first action
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is to make sure that she's just not simply awall right do we have any evidence to suggest that she just took
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off if she were to take off it would seem likely maybe she would go home and so that would be protocol check with her
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parents you've checked with her roommate and when I say check her apartment I think they actually went to the
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apartment and did a walk around right and so we have now made we we've collected enough evidence to suggest to
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us before we go public with this that she's not simply just missing or absent without official leave she is missing
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and we think that there's some foul play involved here now did anybody tell the Navy about her dancing that I don't know
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but I don't think it was much of a secret this was something that she was doing for for a while and I don't know
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the particulars of that that part-time job other than she was working that part-time and had done so for some time
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the go- go dancer title is maybe one that some people are not super familiar with but in a lot of cases what that
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tends to mean is that you're not like an exotic dancer you're not dancing up on stage a lot of times that means that you
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are part of a collective that's showing up at these clubs and you're dressing provocatively and
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you're up and dancing it's to kind of get the party going at these clubs get people to stay there a longer period of
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time get people up on the Dance Floor themselves while I don't know the particulars of her part-time gig the
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title was go go dancer and I do know that she would work at this club but it was seems to be like it was part of a
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circuit you know captain and your your band playing days how you you play you play one bar club and then the next
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Saturday you hit this other one and the next Saturday you hit this other one same thing for Carol an she had I
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believe it was three Virginia Beach Clubs that she would regularly go to and work as a go- go dancer on the weekend
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as said she's had the same assignment for a year and her commanding officer saying she doesn't miss days so we have
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something going on here that is obvious to persons that know her that are willing to step up and say look we
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suspect Foul Play this is something serious we all need to be on the lookout for this young lady now later we get an
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update this is from the Norfolk Police Sergeant who said that Carol an Muller's green station wagon was found about 10
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days after she was reported missing well like we always say it's easier to find a
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car than it is to find a person the car was found not far from the club where she was working that night when she was
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last seen right the sergeant said quote there is a very good possibility that Foul Play is involved in quote and we've
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been handling it as if a homicide has occurred adding that search parties have been organized
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to look in the area where Carol and molnar's car was found well just to be Captain Obvious dum dum pants just so
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I'm clear the Navy is the one heading up the investigation but they're still working with local law enforcement well
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yeah so what you're going to have here Captain you're going to see two things taking place and we're going to see if
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you want to call it an investigation we're going to see the investigation shift rather quickly on our timeline
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here in just a second but what you have is she's originally reported missing to the local authorities via her roommate
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that Saturday right and then she becomes Officially Missing to the Navy when she
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doesn't show up the next time she's supposed to report for Duty so you have two agencies if you will working on
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locating this young woman they find her vehicle that's not a good sign and now we have the events of May 1st 1983 we
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get bad news so this would be a little more than 5 days after Carol Anne was last seen
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remember she was leaving the gallan club her body is located they find her body and here's the news report out of
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Norfolk Virginia and it reads the badly decomposed body of a missing Buffalo service woman has been found partially
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buried under the rocks of a seaw wall at the Norfolk Naval Air Station Carol Anne
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molar age 21 a Buffalo area native and a Navy petty officer third class assigned
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to the Armed Forces Staff College was last seen at 3:00 a.m. at a Norfolk nightclub City and navy law enforcement
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agencies are investigating the case Miss molnar's fully clothed body was found about 8 miles from the nightclub and
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from the spot where her car was found 10 days after her disappearance it goes on to state that
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she had worked part-time as a go- go dancer in Norfolk area clubs in her off duty hours and her Father Joseph said
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his daughter occasionally expressed fears about the Norfolk neighborhood where she lived can you say again how
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far away she was found from her car this is where it's a little complicated but I
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think what they're they are suggesting here because I don't have the address or a
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great description of where her car is found right but what they're saying is her body was located and found eight
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miles from the nightclub where she worked and from the spot where her car was found so and unless unless she's
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found equidistant to both and they're on Polar Opposites I think what they're s suggesting here and this is what I found
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in later reports too I mean reports that came out the following year and the year
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after that that her car was it's a little surprising to me that it took 10 days to locate it
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because the other the descriptions we get is that her car was found relatively close to where she was working that
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night right but not obviously in the parking lot or anything correct that is correct cuz we have 10 days that expire
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before the car and then it's as said a little more than 50 days between the time she's reported missing and then her
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body is found now this she's found as this report States at the Norfolk Naval Air Station right which to me it leans
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towards the idea that it's somebody that works at the Naval Base yeah and I think
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that the the information here we need to kind of cross reference it with what other sources we can find so we did end
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up getting access to the death certificate in this case autopsy report well we weren't that lucky but we did
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get the death certificate which does have some information some slightly different information from the report
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that we just gave so according to this report she was found at 10:30 p.m. May 1st 1983 so that's just further
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information we already know Found May 1st but this is telling us she's found at night at 10:30 p.m. we have cause of
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death listed here as manual strangulation with the location of the body found listed as rock barrier seaw
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wall at n Norfolk let's go back to the previous report where they are saying the Navy air station so I'm
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guessing here on the death certificate the na s Norfolk is standing for Navy Air Station Norfolk it goes on to State
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strangled by another person body found in crevice of rock sea wall now I have got to say captain that I found in
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crevice of rock seaw wall sounds that this could be a little different to me than the previous description and maybe
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I'm just wrong but the previous description they use the word buried when I hear and read the words found in
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crevice of rock seaw wall seems like she was placed placed or or may have been in
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the water kind of floating a little bit too I so we don't get a great description on how she was found or who
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she was found or who found her what I what I have learned in our research of this case is that the person that found
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her has never been considered a suspect meaning not that they didn't take the time to think and go well maybe we
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should consider this person a suspect there's there's reason not to consider them a suspect you know for anybody that
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was wondering hey uh guys I I found a body in this crevice over here hey thanks for telling us be on your way
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well and we can get into the reasons why that may be for the person that found her here in a bit but before
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that unfortunately we have to get to another victim now shortly after Carol Anne
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Muller's body is found and in the early stages of the investigation when it failed to yield any publicly known
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suspects it was only natural that persons on base off base and with law enforcement were going to start to draw
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parallels to a murder that took place just about one year before that was still unsolved when Carol Anne was
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killed right we are talking about the murder of another Norfolk Navy woman and her name was Pamela an
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simplysafe docomomo there's no safe like [Music] simplysafe all right we are back cheers
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mates talk talk hands in the air and cheers to the people in the back cheers to the people in the back now Captain
00:27:03
before we went to what's up sorry I'm just I've been laughing about that all week I don't I've always thought it was
00:27:12
funny because we can't see the people in the back but for some reason it's been really cracking me up this week and I
00:27:19
just keep on saying and thank you to the people in the back the garage listeners
00:27:25
likely do not know the number of inside jokes that are going on uh during during the housekeeping
00:27:33
portions of the show yeah you got to listen to every episode to get them all cheers to the people in the back is an
00:27:39
old one from our young days when we were when we were heavy metal guys and you'd
00:27:45
be on stage and you couldn't see past the third face in the row yeah uh there was no seeing anybody in the back and
00:27:52
likely there was nobody back there so cheers to the empty room cheers to the people in the back we left off Captain
00:27:59
we introduced another victim here unfortunately who was killed the year before Carol Anne molard was and this
00:28:07
victim again another Norfolk Navy woman her name is Pamela an kimw I think what's going to happen here
00:28:15
Captain I think that listeners will recognize immediately that there are similarities
00:28:22
in both the victimology and the details of the crimes themselves from the report and we
00:28:29
will try to offer up a little speculation along the way this is a summary from the Norfolk
00:28:36
AP report a Navy woman whose body was found Bound in the back seat of her submerged car apparently was choked
00:28:46
unconscious and drowned when her car rolled off a c plane ramp at the Norfolk Naval Air Station the Navy said see
00:28:56
there you go Nas again Naval Air Station so this is while it's a a larger area this is a very
00:29:05
specific area yeah but this is also why when they had another missing female they said hey we're we're looking into
00:29:13
this case immediately thinking that Foul Play happened because of this case medical examiners ruled the official
00:29:20
cause of death as drowning but there were bruises on her body and signs that an attempt was made
00:29:27
to strangle her according to Lieutenant Commander John Alexander he's a spokesman for the base the body of
00:29:35
Pamela an kimw a radio man Sean stationed at the air station was found about 2 p.m Friday March 26
00:29:47
1982 so if we're looking at the time that Carol Anne molar goes missing she went missing February 6th so we're
00:29:56
talking roughly about 11 months difference between the time that Pamela an kimw was killed and then Carol Anne
00:30:07
molar goes missing Pamela Anne's case is a little bit different though because the
00:30:14
timeline is much more precise that will be helpful to the investigation so what we do know Captain is that Pamela Anne
00:30:25
kimw she was last seen alive at about 400 a.m. p.m. Thursday March 25th and we know that her body was found
00:30:33
at 2 p.m. Friday March 26th so we're talking about a little more than 24 hours from the time that
00:30:42
she's last seen alive till when she's discovered in the back seat of her car which is submerged into water right the
00:30:51
details of when she was last seen are helpful too so she was last seen when she left her office to pick up messages
00:30:59
at a Communication Center Miss Kimber was a native of Bay City Michigan and had been in the Navy for a little more
00:31:07
than two years by this point so here another victim unfortunately Pamela was drowned after an attempt to strangle her
00:31:17
Carol an was was strangled both in water or to be specific in Carol's case in the seaw
00:31:25
wall now Captain one thing that will be of great importance for the investigation or
00:31:35
investigations is that because both victims are in the Navy and found on base right we have niis working these
00:31:45
cases what this is going to mean is much less information making its way to the media and news outlets specifically in
00:31:56
regards to details about the crime committed how they were carried out and information that you and I would like to
00:32:04
review about the crime scenes so similar of victims roughly the same age same sex
00:32:12
same manner of death and also same placement of the body after death I wonder if this individual was trying to
00:32:20
use the water to get rid of evidence I think you're right I think it's both get rid of evidence and try to conceal the
00:32:29
body either permanently or as long as possible right and when we say that we would like to review some information
00:32:36
and details about the crime scenes a note here for new garage people out there each murder has at least two crime
00:32:44
scenes in this case in these stories that we're talking about as far as I can tell and possibly three so
00:32:52
here we have where the attack and the abduction first took place that's one crime scene Carol's car and where it
00:33:02
was found would be another crime scene and then the location where her body is found is the third crime scene Pamela
00:33:10
an's case likely two crime scenes but all of those areas need to be investigated looked for evidence and
00:33:19
talk to everybody that you can to see if there's any eyewitnesses or ear Witnesses at any of those locations
00:33:27
right to these investigators this is them investigating the murder of one of their own so remember this is this is
00:33:36
NIS well two of their own correct correct but for terminology here this is an investigator investigating the murder
00:33:45
of one of their own so think of a homicide investigation where you have police investigating the murder of a
00:33:51
fellow police officer so what you would expect in a situation like this and investigation like this you're going to
00:34:00
expect it to be intense hyperfocused and because of the agency working these cases the Navy you think that likely
00:34:10
you're going to have a wealth of resources here for your investigation well it's going to be all Hands-On deck
00:34:16
literally exactly now I'm going to say something here with no intent to upset the old apple cart oh God and the Very
00:34:24
truth of this is of course that there should be no murder victims at all if we lived in a perfect world there would be
00:34:33
no True Crime garage show to listen to but we don't and there is so when we talk about
00:34:41
victimology heck I hate to even say the words out loud but from an investigation
00:34:46
standpoint these are ideal victims the the nature of their lives their work and their lifestyles are far more punch
00:34:57
clock and jental than the regular old civilian life well isn't they did some studies people that take the same route
00:35:05
every day people that to have the same schedule every day have a higher percentage of a chance of being murder
00:35:14
victims well and here what you have is a situation where you know the comings and goings of
00:35:23
these two for a large part of their day and and for the most part a large part of their week right a lot of us have
00:35:31
jobs maybe you're salaried in Pulley and you don't punch a clock you don't have to you know report to the boss or report
00:35:39
to he or she whomever that you're not checking in all the time no this is the this is the Navy they're they're pretty
00:35:46
much checking everything there's checks and balances they're they're you're you're you're arriving at base you're
00:35:53
clocking in they they know where you live so there's a lot there's a lot of paper trail here and a lot of evidence
00:36:02
that's going to shrink not only your timeline but you shouldn't have a whole lot of Blanks on those timelines which
00:36:10
is something that we see in a lot of cases so yeah but this is also this is the reason why I only work a job for two
00:36:17
weeks then I quit start a new job because then my my schedule's always changing well to speak in specifics here
00:36:26
let's take the Pamela kimw for example she was working on Bas when she was attacked there's no doubt about
00:36:34
that so she was working on base she's attacked there and later found there in her car submerged in the bass's
00:36:44
waters meaning while it's not an absolute it's a damned near certainty that Pamela kimw killer had access to
00:36:53
the Naval Base there was solid evidence of a sexual assault so that can only mean one thing Captain
00:37:00
we are most certainly looking for a sailor a Navy man okay Captain dumb question of the
00:37:08
episode what percentage of the people on base are connected to the Navy and do they have a a small percentage of
00:37:18
employees that are technically or maybe not employees but people that are visiting the base is it a situation
00:37:26
where you should only only be on the base if you're in the Navy or is there a possibility that there's regular
00:37:33
civilians that could be on the base that is a great question so this is one of the largest if not the largest navy base
00:37:43
in the United States I hesitate to say that but I I do know for certain that it's one of the largest it this this is
00:37:50
a huge area a lot of people and then it's also surrounded by other military milit
00:37:57
and Armed Forces outfits as well so while I don't know the percentages that you asked about and I don't think that
00:38:06
that's a bad question at all one thing I will say here is without having numbers
00:38:11
in front of me in the early 80s I would guess the male to female ratio for persons at this navy base would be
00:38:21
significantly high for the males significantly High when we talk about a Navy man and then let's take it
00:38:29
a step further given the location where Pamela kimw was attacked on base that means that that man our killer that poor
00:38:38
excuse for a man bag forget about an honorable sailor that man not only had access to the Navy base but likely
00:38:49
had clearance to where she was attacked clearance to that specific area right you have different ranks and you have
00:38:56
different job duties on this base and while I might be a sailor and I might be have a an assignment there my assignment
00:39:05
may not allow me to travel to every portion to every nook and cranny of that base well let me just
00:39:12
say something and everybody just sit back in your chair relax and put your tin hat on for a second I thought it was
00:39:21
funny when you said hey the the Navy's going to look into this my first thought was yeah you're you're goddamn right
00:39:30
they're going to look into this because there's a chance that it is one of the higher ups like you said they have
00:39:38
access to areas that others would not have makes you wonder was their intent to look into this to solve this crime or
00:39:47
was it to figure out what happened so they could deal with it internally that's something you always have to
00:39:53
consider but let's think of I know that's a little tin hack for everybody but yeah but let's think
00:40:00
of NIS as a little more Internal Affairs right it's it's own it's it's very much its own Department okay so
00:40:10
what you're saying and likely they may not care they may not have anybody to protect right so what you're saying is
00:40:16
actually their job their sole job they don't go after civilians their job is just to correct the system the system
00:40:27
which they're a part of but their job is to make sure that they catch the dirt BS
00:40:33
yes and the other thing I want to make clear here too something that that you had referenced earlier I don't want to
00:40:39
suggest that the area that she was attacked at required some kind of higher clearance that it was like right that
00:40:47
you have to be a high ranking officer to get into that location what I what I simply mean here is when you when you're
00:40:54
running any secured facility and when I worked in security for years we you have
00:41:02
access and Grant access to different people to different locations where you may have person a
00:41:11
who is a high ranking official at that facility or that location but they have no reason to need access to something
00:41:22
that maybe a janitor or maintenance person may need access to right you you limit where persons can travel that's
00:41:30
the way that you keep structure and you keep Rule and you keep people safe by doing that so what I'm suggesting here
00:41:39
is that my first course of action if I'm NIS and I'm sure that this is where they
00:41:44
went with this if this is an area where one you have to have access to the base itself okay that doesn't really help you
00:41:52
when that still includes thousands and thousands of people because it's such a large Naval Base
00:41:57
but with inside of that base so what you're doing is you're eliminating and you're shrinking your
00:42:04
suspect pool while when we talk about a case a homicide in in a city where there's a million people well right then
00:42:13
and there including the victim's mother everybody's a suspect in that City all one million of them suspect here in this
00:42:21
situation because of where the attack took place and where the body was found you can immediately go okay it had to be
00:42:28
somebody that had access to this base and that doesn't include every person that lived in the city of Norfolk right
00:42:35
now you could shrink it even further if this is a location that only certain Personnel had access to with inside of
00:42:42
that base if that makes sense no I I think it totally makes sense but hear me out on this if it's a common place if
00:42:50
it's a common area that a lot of people go to and you might not have access but you could get access from somebody else
00:43:02
if that makes any sense well it can and it could but I don't think that that's what we're I'm not saying most of this
00:43:09
without having any knowledge of what's going on here so let's go jump to another report this is an additional
00:43:15
report specifically about the investigation in Pamela and Kim Brew's murder case so this report states that
00:43:24
the last trip of Navy messenger Pamela and Kimu through the naval air station has been traced dozens of times so what
00:43:33
they've done here is they already know the last time that she arrived on base and she had to check in she's not just
00:43:40
showing up willy-nilly she has to check in and be granted access to come on to the base so now they are checking her
00:43:49
last trip through the Naval Air Station because that's where everything is telling us the attack took place and
00:43:56
where her body was found they are saying investigators have interviewed 798 people seeking Clues they've even
00:44:04
put one of them a man who heard Miss kimw screams under hypnosis hoping that that would disclose an unremembered
00:44:13
detail of her slaying the report continues they've tracked down 300 White Chevrolet Chevettes registered on base a
00:44:22
car her killer might have used and they're sure that the killer knew knew the young sailor well and may have even
00:44:30
tracked her on her last day of work but weeks of work have produced only one solid clue and that clue was a ski mask
00:44:40
that the killer apparently left in the car where Miss Kim's beaten and bound body was found in the back seat
00:44:48
underwater so to give a little bit of a description here the way that this looks
00:44:54
to me Captain is that she's attacked and then placed inside of her vehicle when they find the vehicle submerged in
00:45:03
water she is bound her hands behind her back her body is bruised so there was some kind of physical attack that took
00:45:12
place prior to tying her up and and maybe even after tying her up and placing her in that vehicle but an
00:45:19
attempt to strangle her was made on top of that they the killer wrapped the seat belt around her in a
00:45:29
way that would further restrict her movement right I think that we're looking at a possibility of one of two
00:45:38
things either the killer thought that he had completed the job and that she was dead when the vehicle was moved into the
00:45:49
water right or these were further attempts to keep her in that vehicle because as we already know and have
00:45:57
discussed the manner of death here the the cause of death actually was drowning in this situation so she was unconscious
00:46:05
in the backseat of that car tied up and not only couldn't get free probably never attempted to get free because she
00:46:14
was unconscious yeah my guess is that the killer already thought she was dead yeah she they find this ski mask inside
00:46:22
the vehicle and they're like oh either the killer thought thought we would never find this car and and put it in
00:46:30
the car willingly or likely what they believe is left it there on accident or dropped
00:46:38
it in the process of putting her in the vehicle and then putting the vehicle in the
00:46:45
water now I'm guessing that the ski mask being submerged in water it was submerged in water right the whole car
00:46:52
was yes right so that's probably going to really screw grew up some DNA evidence also found in the car we have
00:47:01
her purse uh she was clothed according to the naval investigative service uh member his name is Charles lanan who was
00:47:12
giving this report do you think because both of these victims were found with their clothes on but there was evidence
00:47:20
of a sexual assault do you believe that the clothes were put back on to maybe hide the fact that they were sexually
00:47:30
assaulted you want me to be brutally honest yeah I think that that's a I think that that's a fib I don't think
00:47:39
that I think that the victims were either found partially clothed and they're choosing to leave out the word
00:47:45
partially and right I'm saying that based off of what we know about the attacks like you said the sexual assault
00:47:53
right I think that this is a way to honor your fellow Soldier or sailor and that this is a detail that's
00:48:01
not necessary for the newspapers or for the general public my guess is that they're probably both found partially
00:48:07
clothed or or not a lot of clothing at all and as said that it's the other thing
00:48:16
too if you don't announce that there was a rape involved in your reporting to the
00:48:24
newspapers that also could be considered back information for your investigation that yeah which would make
00:48:31
sense yeah that only someone with intimate knowledge about the crimes would be aware of that either the you're
00:48:38
talking to either the killer themselves or somebody that the killer talked to and told the details of the crimes so if
00:48:45
you hold back that information when you got somebody sitting across from you if they know that a rape took place and
00:48:52
you've never announced that to anybody anywhere then you know you're talking to some of significance and of importance
00:48:59
to your investigation NIS agents have traced the victim's movements from her off base
00:49:07
apartment that foggy March 25th morning through the gate of the base to the Communication Center where she picked up
00:49:15
the morning messages for her command her watery grave was less than 100 yards from where she was last seen alive they
00:49:24
had 15 NIS agents working full-time on Pamela Kim's case early on in the investigation the report also mentioned
00:49:37
something about hypnosis that's that's correct and the reason being investigators are saying that they chose
00:49:44
to use hypnosis in this case they were hoping to trace in detail what that witness heard and saw in the base
00:49:55
parking lot that night so this individual he's out there and he's search he hears a scream
00:50:02
and he goes looking for where that scream came from and why there was a scream to begin with right and they're
00:50:10
worried that in his haste and maybe panic when he's out there in the dark that maybe he's not recalling everything
00:50:20
later when he's talking to investigators so he says yes I'll do the put me under
00:50:26
hypnosis maybe I can recall something that I I'm unable to tell you here in these uh conversations I wonder if they
00:50:33
gave this iwitness a polygraph test as well they go on to say that they believe that the attack on Miss kimaru may have
00:50:41
been interrupted when flashlight carrying Sailors and this is something you had asked about earlier and civilian
00:50:48
defense workers combed the lot on foot and in cars so they thought that the scream
00:50:55
initially was that of someone who had accidentally driven over a seab ball right you know it's it's dark at night
00:51:03
that that this was something that was an accident and so this is what's telling what this is telling me
00:51:11
Captain you it's easy to put together how this looks people were out there they're
00:51:17
working this is a large base you got a lot of people there somebody hears a scream people go looking for what that
00:51:23
scream was where it came from and why it even happened in beginning with I think
00:51:29
these Sailors and the civilian defense workers keep it mind those civilian defense workers had to have clearance to
00:51:37
get onto the base too so that these persons are vetted they know who they are even though they're still civilians
00:51:44
these people go looking for it I think that they are arriving to the scene and seeing evidence of the car going into
00:51:53
the water because I think it's it's no coincidence that they are finding and recovering her car and her body so
00:52:01
quickly I'm going to say this you might think I'm crazy but with so many people looking
00:52:08
and and and out in that parking lot the killer could have slipped right back in and just acted like he was looking to
00:52:16
see what happened too exactly especially if he is and why wouldn't we expect him
00:52:22
to be he'd be close by right well not only he should either be a sailor or a civilian defense worker right so he's
00:52:31
likely outfitted uniformed similar to the other persons in the area at the time that are searching what a he would
00:52:39
slip right back in yeah he would he would blend in immediately if he could behave in a natural way if he was
00:52:47
capable of doing so her body was found in her car by Navy divers 120 ft Beyond a sea plane ramp so this ramp is 100
00:52:58
yards from the Communication Center that's where she was working she had been beaten about the head her hands
00:53:05
were tied behind her back with clothesline she had been dumped in the back seat of her car while still alive
00:53:13
they were able to determine that her attacker turned on the ignition put the car in gear and sent it down the CPL and
00:53:21
ramp into 10 feet of water investigators say the attacker this is what we were talking about
00:53:28
earlier so much and this is from their report the NIS report the attacker would have had to be someone who had access to
00:53:38
the base either a military man or a civilian defense worker at that time of night at 4 am. so that's interesting
00:53:48
too the that specific detail remember what I talked about you could be a high ranking official at a location and maybe
00:53:56
not have access to every corner every Corridor of that location of that facility what they're saying here is not
00:54:05
just would this have to be a military man or a civilian defense worker that had access to the base they would have
00:54:12
had to have been somebody that would have had access to the base at that time frame at that time of day yeah because
00:54:18
if your schedule was to be there from 9 to 5 you have no reason you you have to have a pretty damn excuse on why you're
00:54:28
there at 400 a.m. well and keep in mind though this is a base it's it's not about having an excuse It's about being
00:54:36
allowed on the base no that's what I'm saying like that's predetermined so they go on to State here that the guard the
00:54:43
the gate guards are their their sole purpose their their entire the entirety of their
00:54:50
job is stopping every vehicle in person and seeing their identification before anybody is allowed to go anywhere they
00:54:59
have to be on a list they have to have clearance and access to to that base yeah and I would assume that is pretty
00:55:08
difficult to sneak back on the base yeah and the job duties too are going to be pretty well laid out and anybody that's
00:55:16
had a job that has to follow a certain schedule knows that that's going to break things down even better for
00:55:25
investig Ator so when she was killed she was in the process of picking up the morning messages these are reported to
00:55:34
be routine correspondents from ships aircraft and other bases so they know not just where she was and at what time
00:55:43
she was attacked but also what task she was carrying out when she was [Music] attacked
00:55:57
join us back here in the garage and until then you better be good be kind and don't lit
00:56:03
[Music] [Applause] it