00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details whether you're
00:00:31
making the same breakfast that you have every day or baking a cake for an extra special day eggs are a staple in our
00:00:38
diets Eggland's Best eggs are nutritionally superior to ordinary eggs containing six times more vitamin D and
00:00:45
double the Omega-3s not only are they better for you but Eggland's Best eggs taste better too there's a reason that
00:00:51
they're America's number one eggs visit egsb best.com for additional information
00:00:57
and delicious recipes [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:42
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that knows
00:01:48
you should only kill people with kindness he is the mild-mannered captain or you could try a shovel it's good to
00:01:55
be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend tonight we are drinking grinder punch by
00:02:06
the good men and women at the sound Growler Brewing Company in Tinley Park Illinois garage grade four out of five
00:02:13
bottle caps this West Coast pale ale is brewed with pilsner and Munich maltz add
00:02:18
the Pacific Northwest Hops and you have a beer that delivers a pungent Aroma with a clean crisp finish stings the
00:02:25
nostrils ABV 5.6% and grinder punch with was brought to us by all of you fantastic folks and a special thanks to
00:02:33
David in Bedford Pennsylvania and a big nice jib to Captain Tina in Ottawa Canada here's a long distance cheers to
00:02:40
Ellie Shiva from Jerusalem Israel and filling up the fridge we have Sarah in Pocahontas Arkansas and a shout out all
00:02:48
the way to Tara who is in Newcastle Australia and last but not least a cheers to Joel and Caroline Springs
00:02:56
Australia if you'd like to donate to the Beer fund go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate banner and it's
00:03:03
official everybody this is fantastic wonderful exciting stuff something we've been working very hard on the captain
00:03:10
especially hard on Wow W okay all right then awkward awkward but it listen up this is fantastic I'm very proud of this
00:03:20
we've been trying to figure out a way for a long time to bring all of our back catalog to you to everyone for free and
00:03:28
starting in May mhm we're that's going to be available to you on the Stitcher app you can get
00:03:34
every True Crime garage episode from episode one all the way up to today yep and it'll be free on the Stitcher app
00:03:42
also on Stitcher premium we have our new weekly show it's kind of the behindth scenes show update show it's called off
00:03:49
the Record so those will start in may as well all right let's gather around grab
00:03:54
a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] e [Music] [Music]
00:04:42
well I just spoke with Tinley Park's police chief he tells me this sketch was released on the eve of the anniversary
00:04:47
on purpose because people tend to have the most interests in this cold case this time of year the new 3D image is
00:04:54
now hanging inside the police station and it's broadcast everywhere it is an enhanced version of a previous sketch
00:05:00
drawn from an eyewitness account in 2008 the new photo uses facial identification
00:05:06
technology to make it more lifelike now whoever that man is entered a Tinley Park Lane Bryant 10 years ago and
00:05:13
announced a robbery he ordered a group of women into a back room tied them up with duct tape and shot five of them
00:05:20
dead one of the victims dialed 911 police released a snippet of that call years ago 911 emergency
00:05:33
stay on the line stay on the line police say the suspect's voice can also be heard on the background of that
00:05:40
call detectives have now isolated The Voice although his words are almost indistinguishable
00:06:01
looking Tenley Park's Chief says one to two new tips come in on the case every week they hope this sketch and voice
00:06:08
recording will give them even more leads can you believe it's been 10 years no it it's time goes by but we've worked
00:06:16
on it steadily for 10 years continue to work on it there's five women that that need us to clear this
00:06:22
[Music] up in the trailer there Captain we hear the news reporter asking the police chief
00:06:38
can you believe it's been 10 years and that's exactly the case here in 2008 five women were killed inside of the
00:06:46
Lane Bryant store in what police would describe as a botched robbery or a robbery turned violent now you hear the
00:06:54
police chief there stating no we cannot believe that it's been 10 years this is a case that they've worked very hard
00:07:00
they've spent millions of dollars trying to find the guy that shot these five women to death mhm we also still 10
00:07:08
years later they have a full-time officer working the case as well as another officer that works the case part
00:07:15
time over the years of I've heard from this detective that there have been three times throughout the last 10 years
00:07:24
where he believed that they were very close to solving the case that they had a suspect three times they had a suspect
00:07:31
that they like so much they thought that they were going to be able to provide the families with some justice finally
00:07:36
after all these years yeah or at least bring charges to these suspects and today we know that they currently do not
00:07:43
have any suspects or anyone that they have named publicly as a suspect in this case now I do before we get into some
00:07:51
things today we got a lot to cover we want to go through the 911 call we want to go through some vehicles that were in
00:07:57
the area at the time some things that could lead us into some thoughts about our suspect here but before we do so
00:08:04
Captain I kind of wanted to highlight some pieces of the investigation uh along the way so in the very early parts
00:08:12
of the investigation remember we said that that police had one thing working in their advantage and that was that a
00:08:18
Tinley Park police officer was parked in a vehicle just that was adjacent to the
00:08:24
parking lot of the Lane Bryant at the time of the 911 call yeah about 200 yards away yes so this officer was on
00:08:32
the scene within just a couple of minutes yeah and a couple minutes after that there's going to be multiple law
00:08:37
enforcements that are going to be at the scene yeah they're they're showing up and arriving to the area multiple police
00:08:44
departments the the Chicago PD helicopter was was in the air shortly after the crime was discovered so what's
00:08:53
so weird here Captain is that we have this guy that he kills these women he walks out of the store we can see the
00:09:00
huge police response that's going on in the area almost immediately afterwards and yet somehow this guy is able to
00:09:09
disappear as soon as he leaves the store he's not highly noticeable he's he gets
00:09:14
away somehow he's able to slip back into the fold or hide in the background well
00:09:19
and we but we do have on video camera two cars that that left one being SUV one being a sedan now police
00:09:28
investigated they did investigate whether the killer had any connections to one of the victims um because as we
00:09:35
had stated in the last episode most robbers probably wouldn't hit a clothing store early in the morning and probably
00:09:42
wouldn't stay 40 minutes like this guy did for the first 51 days of the investigation nearly 50 investigators
00:09:50
worked to find the Lane Bryant killer together they logged over 30,000 hours on the case the the cost of the
00:09:59
investigation surpassed $400,000 this was just in the first 51 days another interesting thing here
00:10:07
Captain when we talk about the pursuit of this man the pursuit of the killer that fled police even locked down stores
00:10:15
in the area including a Super Target petmart and Office Max searching the area with guns drawn this case has been
00:10:26
it's been interesting to research in the sense that I know a guy that lives in the greater Chicago area he's not in law
00:10:33
enforcement but he's familiar with law enforcement and so he and I over the past couple weeks have been trading a
00:10:38
lot of emails back and forth about this case and one thing that he told me was that his this his name we'll call him
00:10:46
Greg I didn't get it permission if I'm allowed to use his name I just uh but anyway one thing he told me was that his
00:10:52
wife had been in a store that was just within a mile of the Lane Bryant store at the time of the killings and she was
00:10:59
at this uh place called dinner by Design and she was there with several friends of hers and the during this time the
00:11:08
Tinley police stormed in they they had their hands on their holsters some of them had guns drawn and they locked the
00:11:15
door behind them when they came in to search the business now once the business was cleared they told everybody
00:11:23
what had happened and said that everybody needed to stay inside and they locked the doors as they left the uh the
00:11:33
store and then went on to clear another store so they were they were heavily heavily in pursuit of this man with cars
00:11:42
helicopters and on foot well not only the immediate response was huge by law enforcement but they've continued to
00:11:48
work this heavily and use every technology that they can yeah and they've allowed this to take them down
00:11:55
some different Avenues in pursuit of this person they even used the IRS to do some background searches for them they
00:12:03
used NASA they had NASA pull satellite images of vehicles that were in Lots outside of the store within minutes of
00:12:13
shots being fired the secret service has helped with phone records foreign police
00:12:19
agencies have run ballistics test for this case Illinois State Police have screened weapons that get turned in or
00:12:27
brought back to see if they can match it to the handgun that was used by the Killer and I'm assuming that they
00:12:34
probably ran the DNA as well that's a that's an interesting question and I do do you want to get
00:12:42
into that now because I know you're kind of chomping at the bit to get at that let let me I tell you what let me wrap
00:12:47
this up real quick so I don't forget something okay I just wanted to mention that in this year alone to show you the
00:12:55
activity involved in the community here is that just this year alone they have they have received 87 leads that were
00:13:04
called in and over the course of the 10 years they have investigated and received more than 7,000 leads total
00:13:12
since the murders so investigators have gone as far as London to check new fingerprint technology on the shell
00:13:20
casings that were found that day and the village Tinley Park has spent nearly $2
00:13:25
million on this investigation so the detective IV have continued to filter through these leads up to this day
00:13:33
they're going to continue to do so they've they've categorized and logged all these leads and they've investigated
00:13:40
them all so a huge effort as you had had stated now regarding the DNA this is a big point of contention
00:13:48
for me and it doesn't seem to be a point of contention for anybody else when you
00:13:53
start looking into this case and what I mean by that is I'm not con convinced that either a that they have DNA or that
00:14:02
they have good DNA right and here's here's my thoughts on this and and okay so in doing research for this case one
00:14:12
one place that it led me and I think you you fell into this as well was Reddit there's a lot of discussion about this
00:14:20
case on Reddit yeah and it's I love Reddit by the way it's yeah but it's as far as a resource it's not the best in
00:14:29
investigative tool because there's there's a lot of conversation on there there's a big conversation on there
00:14:35
that's that's a unique one and a good idea a very good idea is that the reason why this case might not be solved is
00:14:44
that all these years police have said that they're looking for a man yeah where where in fact this might be a
00:14:50
woman aha got him or her something um that's my gut feel feeling that for whatever reason before
00:15:01
we even you know researched this at all for what for whatever reason I was watching some report uh some old news
00:15:10
report and I just went I don't think it's a man well and then my first response to that is well they have DNA
00:15:18
right and my first thought then would be well if they have DNA and they've said for 10 years that they're looking for a
00:15:23
man they wouldn't want to screw up their investigation they need the Public's help here here right they would not want
00:15:30
to screw up their investigation and say that they're looking for a man when in fact it's a woman that they they would
00:15:35
never do that so that has led people to believe that they've tested the DNA that
00:15:40
they had and it's the the evidence points to it being a man right but maybe they don't have good enough DNA that's
00:15:47
where I question this whole thing yeah or what if you you have eyewitness right that we have a surviving witness and for
00:15:56
the record she's always said it's a man she believes it to be a man which I think we were calling her Martha yes so
00:16:03
Martha says I believe that this guy it was a man then they get the DNA back from under the fingernails possibly cuz
00:16:11
we have fingernail clippings and we get touch DNA back possibly right and then they test it and they go oh well there's
00:16:19
some female DNA here this must be the victim's DNA and that is contamin it right well cuz if if it were separate
00:16:29
they could decipher that it's separate and they could figure out that it came from the victim you know they would they
00:16:34
would test the victim as well but not always I mean we've seen cases where they've tested people and then
00:16:40
accusations that you know somebody's kid is not their kid that was MH you know what I mean so I see what you're saying
00:16:47
so Labs can get this wrong so but I just wonder if that threw them off and they were like well this DNA evidence is no
00:16:53
good cuz we don't have uh any sign of male DNA evidence in this text test is what I'm saying I I think you lost me
00:17:01
because I I think the the counterargument has always been it has to be a man because they have DNA
00:17:05
evidence but I don't think that why they think it's a man I think they think it's
00:17:09
a man because of eyewitness and I have not seen anywhere that they said we tested that DNA evidence and it's a
00:17:17
man thank you thank you now now here sorry I'm a little frustrated all right but before we get too far into this
00:17:24
captain my my gut feeling is that it's that it's a man but I'm you're my boy I'm going to take your back here you're
00:17:30
my boy blue well and the reason why I will not discredit the the possibility of it being a woman is this anytime that
00:17:38
I've seen a debate on if it's a man or a woman the the the person always tries to
00:17:43
end the debate supporting the fact that it's a man by stating they have DNA they
00:17:49
would know if it's a man or a woman they've always said it's a man so it has to be a man like you just said though
00:17:56
researching this case for 2 weeks I couldn't find anywhere I couldn't find uh I couldn't find it printed in any
00:18:03
newspaper I couldn't find it where the video footage of of a officer a detective a police chief at any time
00:18:13
outrightly stating we have DNA of this suspect they they always hint that they might have DNA they always throw out
00:18:23
statements that would suggest that they have DNA that doesn't mean that they have DNA on this guy or girl this what
00:18:31
this means is they could be trying to put this person off kilter they could probably be trying to put this person
00:18:39
off ease we have DNA that you left at the crime scene because we have fingernail clippings or we found blood
00:18:46
underneath one of the victim's fingernails there were things that were left at the crime scene this just
00:18:52
implies that they have DNA they never outwardly state that they 100% do and not only did you were you unable to find
00:19:00
that I was unable to find that and I emailed my friend quote unquote Greg in Chicago who was well aware of this case
00:19:09
and he said the same thing at no point have I ever come across where the police are outwardly saying that they in fact
00:19:18
have DNA and to further that that they've tested it to confirm that it's a man so I think if that's going to be
00:19:25
your argument your counter punch there it does work for me because when you throw that out there and you state that
00:19:32
that is that is a fact please post that link underneath your argument so we can verify that check the box and make sure
00:19:41
that it's no longer a concern so this is where we give the homework portion uh from time to time on the show Captain if
00:19:48
anybody if anybody finds can find a link where there is a officer directly involved in this investigation that is
00:19:55
being quoted in a newspaper or being interviewed and and we can see the words coming out of their mouth that they have
00:20:02
DNA please post a link to that on our blog at true Crim garage.com right and so the other problem too is that they
00:20:10
said that this this suspect was possibly 59 to 6t tall so you're talking about uh
00:20:17
a gap of maybe 3 in um but now if you go 3 in lower now you're talking about a gap of five or a height of 56 to 5'9
00:20:27
which would be more stereotypical female height mhm so I I don't know and then the big thing for me is the 911 call now
00:20:38
what police have stated or multiple media sources have stated as they believe that you can hear the suspect's
00:20:46
voice on the 911 call yes so do you want to get to that yes let's go ahead and play the 911 clip that we played
00:20:54
yesterday 911 emergency where atle Park stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park
00:21:04
don't hang up Captain real quick here I want to throw this out to the listeners there's
00:21:13
a tollfree number out there where you can call and you can hear a longer version of this 911 call and they
00:21:22
actually replay the portion that they believe to be the suspect which is heard in the background in on our clip that we
00:21:29
just played you can hear the suspect well what we believe to be the suspect a little bit in the background as well now
00:21:36
we didn't include this version on the show because frankly the audio that the captain just provided that 911 clip that
00:21:44
is shorter the audio from that is much better than a lot of the stuff out there even that what you will hear on this
00:21:51
toll-free number but the number for anybody out there that's interested and this is also where you can provide tips
00:21:58
too and that's the key thing with this number here the number is 866 853 6222 and that's a number that has been
00:22:07
put up and paid for by the Tinley Park Police Department again that number is 866 853
00:22:15
6222 you can call that here a longer version of the clip and you could leave a tip there as well with your
00:22:24
information now let's talk about that 911 clip a little bit here Captain because there is a portion that that
00:22:32
they do not play In that clip that we played and it's where you can hear what is believed to be the suspect talking
00:22:39
before Roda hangs up the phone with 911 mhm now what I did because I had I had a lot of trouble
00:22:49
trying to decipher to decipher what this suspect is saying and so what I did was
00:22:54
I got online and I did a bunch of hunting around and I thought you know you know what Let's find let's find the
00:23:00
general consensus of others out there of what they believe that they are hearing
00:23:06
now mind you this is very choppy a lot of it's not full sentences but some of the things that are believed to be being
00:23:14
said by the suspect in the background is as follows that after the after Roa is told not to hang up the phone you hear
00:23:23
the suspect going on about something and it's believed that he or she I guess I should say is possibly saying the
00:23:31
following relax get over here you're such a hero right now that you're such a hero right
00:23:38
is is a um one portion of the tape that is highly talked about but the seem the general consensus seems to be that the
00:23:47
word hero is somewhere in there because I've seen other versions that are very close that that says something like
00:23:53
don't be a hero huh you don't want to be a hero right um so something about a hero it's also believed to be heard that
00:24:03
he says you're going to die you're lucky and I'm losing it now during the course
00:24:10
this is one thing that we are not hearing and Tinley Park police have been up front about this during the course of
00:24:18
that suspect kind of rambling on and it actually sounds like he is kind of directing the hostages or yelling
00:24:24
directly at one of them in the background there are responses from the victims that are in the room with him
00:24:31
that the police have edited out before it was released to the public right so there's more information on the original
00:24:40
tape that they're not going to release and I think probably for good reason um but the one thing that I seem to be able
00:24:48
to make out pretty clearly is that one line of I'm losing it now I don't know that I hear exactly that maybe a
00:24:54
different slightly different version of that sentence but the word losing seems to be pretty clear at some point in this
00:25:02
audio at the beginning I hear almost like a yell I'm tired of yelling yeah so let's just play the clip one more time
00:25:10
911 emergency where at Park stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang
00:25:21
up well let me just Loop the one part where it's you can clearly tell it's somebody else like the third person if
00:25:28
you will on the call the suspect where at stay on the line stay one more time stay on the line St right so if I
00:25:41
have to mimic that right it's like yo I'm right well what I hear is and this is not this is not a portion
00:25:53
of the tape that we've analyzed I don't know that others have tried to figure out what the the suspect is saying there
00:25:59
because the the whispering coming from the victim and the dispatcher is so prominent here I don't know that this
00:26:06
has been but it's not important that's what I'm saying what's not important what I'm saying is not that important on
00:26:12
what the person in the background saying if this is the suspect what I'm doing is
00:26:17
just [Music] yo right that's that's my point on making it more of a it's a it's a woman
00:26:27
woman's voice it's a woman's range I mean you you'd think of as a man be like yo I'm tired of yelling that's way down
00:26:36
here MH we're talking you have to go up pretty high and the maale register to to
00:26:43
hit What notes they're that they're saying I mean even when you speak you're speaking in notes does that make sense
00:26:50
so that's why I'm saying to me it's like it doesn't even matter what they're saying it's like to I audibly hear if
00:26:56
that is the suspect in the background and not a victim cuz we do have uh well we have one victim on the phone so we
00:27:03
have four other victims that would be in the room if if they believe they're that
00:27:08
they're not talking and that is the suspect to me that's a female voice right and and but at the same time
00:27:16
though I kind of point out what I think I hear the person to be saying because I think that tells you if it is
00:27:22
the suspect or if it is one of the other victims it because to me it almost sounds like the person is saying I'm
00:27:29
tired of yelling looking for blah blah blah almost like the person is is announcing to the people that they've
00:27:38
taken hostage that I'm tired of asking you all these questions why isn't bu anybody telling me the answers I want to
00:27:44
know I'm looking for this I'm looking for this and then I'm going to leave I'm getting tired of you not helping me out
00:27:50
I came here looking for money and I've not found very much money now I understand I I get your point because
00:27:57
when you you isolate that spot on the tape and you play it back the couple times that you did is the pitch higher
00:28:03
than I anticipated hearing knowing that I believe the suspect to be a man the answer is yes that pitch is higher than
00:28:11
I anticipated to hear however I just you know our our voices do funny things um everything does funny
00:28:21
I'm just stating that this is a heightened do some funny things you know this is a heightened situation this is
00:28:26
not a a calm situation on either part the victims or the suspect and I know that sometimes when people are yelling
00:28:34
some people project a higher pitch at times uh thrown into a stressful situation somebody's pitch could go up
00:28:41
or down uh depending on their emotion at the time as well if this individual is angry or scared themselves who knows
00:28:51
what their voice could do but I agree with you Captain a higher pitch than I would anticipate uh regarding a male
00:28:57
suspect of that size 911 emergency we at stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang
00:29:15
[Music] up this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
00:29:25
maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:29:32
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:29:38
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:29:45
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:29:52
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief question air to get matched with a
00:29:58
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:30:05
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
00:30:14
hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact
00:30:22
I've been using the WAP to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words
00:30:26
but actually having having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now
00:30:32
Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever
00:30:39
for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a
00:30:46
GameChanger major phone carriers make you sign contracts with rigid data plans to trap you into a kind of forced phogy
00:30:53
sounds pretty insecure if you ask me at Consumer Cellular we believe in a more more consensual and healthy form of
00:30:58
phamy free of contracts and more flexible to your data needs this way you stick around not because we force you to
00:31:04
with contracts and fees but because you love our phone plans like ardently love our phone plans monogamously Consumer
00:31:12
Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 [Music] Freedom all right we're back cheers and
00:31:28
you know what Captain I know I'm a few days early but uh we won't have another show out before then so happy birthday
00:31:35
to you my friend I'm officially old it's the captain's birthday aoy aoy all right back to the C you've been
00:31:43
drinking too much well I thought you were going to give me like a nice cheers back and instead of nothing happed it's
00:31:49
not your birthday you don't nothing happened but uh you know usually somebody goes cheers somebody else goes
00:31:53
cheers and then you move on um surveillance footage now one thing we've touched upon a little bit here Captain
00:32:01
there were some surveillance footage some video taken from the Target Superstore across the street now it's
00:32:08
estimated that these cameras well not estimated it's reported that these cameras were roughly a 100 yards away
00:32:14
from the what we're about to talk about and this being two vehicles that were spotted in the lane in front of the Lane
00:32:22
Bryant store that were leaving the parking lot around around the same time as it's estimated that the suspect was
00:32:30
leaving yeah here's a couple problems with this first of all is the time correct on surveillance like in many
00:32:39
cases that we've covered there's been cameras but the the times weren't correct right so that is one thing that
00:32:46
we have to think about with this surveillance well I I think we can the I've seen the time stamps on the
00:32:54
surveillance footage and it is a little off of this Mark a bit but the report that I found that I find to be the most
00:33:03
credible states that they believe that these vehicles were seen exiting or leaving those spots sometime between
00:33:12
1046 and 10:49 a.m. so they'd be off the the time would be off on the on the actual tape
00:33:21
correct just slightly um by a few minutes and I think I think the time stamp on the surveillance footage if I
00:33:27
remember correctly is slightly ahead of that it's running a little faster than that but the way that they can kind of
00:33:34
determine how accurate the time is is we have within you know within maybe minutes or seconds even we have a
00:33:43
general idea of what time the police officer is going to state that he arrived on the scene so once once they
00:33:49
can confirm using the other surveillance footage what time these vehicles were seen leaving they can compare that in
00:33:55
comparison to when the officer arrived to see how close they can get to that time now what are we seeing in the video
00:34:02
well first off anybody out there that has seen this video will 100% back me up on this this is some grainy footage
00:34:10
right that was taken from approximately 100 yards away and you police have even commented on this to the point of
00:34:18
stating that you know while this is helpful to the investigation what it does not allow them to do because of the
00:34:26
distance is read license plate numbers right or to possibly identify people that might be sitting inside these
00:34:34
vehicles but what it does show is a small black SUV and a black sedan now both of these vehicles are at the at the
00:34:44
Lane Bryant and then leaving around the time of the shooting so the thought here
00:34:49
is when police are asking the community for help you know the first thing that they're going to ask is that the driver
00:34:57
of of these vehicles come forward right you know if you were if you were at Lane
00:35:01
Bryant around this time and this is your car come forward we just want to talk to
00:35:05
you see if you saw anything even if you think it's nothing we want to know what you know I find one thing a little
00:35:11
interesting here though if you listen to early reports it states that police are
00:35:17
looking for the driver of the small black SUV as well as the black sedan mhm then if you fast forward like months
00:35:27
later they seem to still be looking for the driver of the small black SUV but we
00:35:33
don't we don't hear them outwardly asking for the driver of the black sedan to come forward so I don't know if that
00:35:39
means that that person has come forward identified thems told them what they know and it's nothing and they want
00:35:44
their identity to remain anonymous um it's generally believed that the driver of the SUV could be our suspect yeah and
00:35:55
I've seen on several sites we talked specifically about the Reddit site where they did name um several possible models
00:36:05
make some models of that SUV that's how bad the footage is that being a a Honda or kia possibly a Toyota I I've not been
00:36:15
able to find where police have stated we believe it was this make this model this
00:36:21
year nowhere could I find that so for purposes of staying on task I think we that we continue to report that it is a
00:36:29
small black SUV that is in question and again it seems to be be that out of these two vehicles it's believed that
00:36:37
the suspect might have been in that fleeing the scene in that small black SUV well what's important about this is
00:36:43
if you knew about this case lived in the area if there was somebody that you possibly suspected could have done this
00:36:50
then you kind of reverse engineer did they have a black SUV a small black SUV that that they would be able to use now
00:36:59
one thing I also want to point out there that we heard in an earlier clip today that we used for today's trailer the
00:37:05
start of the show was that you heard the reporter stating that 10 years on the 10year
00:37:11
anniversary of this case uh of the shooting at Lane Bryant and it being unsolved now for 10 years the police
00:37:18
released a 3D composite sketch of our suspect and I like this Captain because to me when I at this 3D version and if
00:37:28
if anybody of anybody out there is familiar with this case and hasn't done any internet sleuthing on it in a while
00:37:35
I beg you to get on your computers on your tablet and check some stuff out because that 3D image is one it's very
00:37:42
haunting you almost feel like you're staring directly at the face of the person that did this that's how detailed
00:37:48
it looks to me and put that on the website and Instagram Twitter Facebook all that stuff and two the original
00:37:55
composite sketch I felt was pretty General um it didn't I don't felt like it gave me a good sense of what I should
00:38:03
be looking for who I should be looking for as where the the det detailed 3D account was much better for that well I
00:38:10
feel I feel like we've covered a lot do you have any questions that you think we
00:38:14
should go over well that's a big part of the frustration regarding this case yes
00:38:20
I do feel like we've covered a lot I feel like we've answered some questions however I feel like there's a lot of
00:38:25
questions out there and again I know we we say this a lot we sound like a broken
00:38:30
record we understand that the in investigation has to hold some things back I feel like there are a few items
00:38:38
out there that could really help especially after 10 years when you're really asking the public to come forward
00:38:43
and help you out with this situation yeah the sketch will help but it would be nice if there was some other piece of
00:38:50
information that they could give us well and that that's what I mean here and I wonder if you know what what are they
00:38:56
holding on to is what they've released is that just the tip of the iceberg I mean they've released what they believe
00:39:03
to be a 3D composite sketch of the suspect right they've released video footage of a possible suspect vehicle
00:39:13
we've also heard Snippets of the 911 call where you can kind of hear the suspect in the background shouting or
00:39:20
yelling or or or communicating with the hostages right the some things that I call into question here though is we we
00:39:27
get a nice good description of what the suspect was wearing that day even down to the point of the potential thought
00:39:34
that there might have been uh some type of packaging tape or duct tape in the suspect's coat pocket possible that the
00:39:42
suspect had manicured fingernails but the weird thing here is we we also hear that the suspect may
00:39:50
have left behind a baseball cap if that's the case can we just say for sure if that happened and two can we
00:39:58
see what that thing looked like what team was it right or or well actually I I say baseball cap as a general term um
00:40:07
and I think it's been reported that way but it could just be some kind of hat uh
00:40:11
a baseball style hat right um so maybe no team on it but could be a company could be any there's a lot of indicators
00:40:19
on there that could help get you to the conclusion of the identity of this person you know people can recognize an
00:40:26
article of clothing just as well as they can a grainy ve surveillance footage of
00:40:32
a vehicle or a possible composite sketch of the actual suspect was there in fact
00:40:38
a hat that was left behind if so what does it look like I would love you know I would love if they would release
00:40:44
pictures of that the other item too I I wish that forget the DNA I'm I'm going to get over the DNA we don't need
00:40:53
to know if they have DNA or not they can they can handle that portion of it but I
00:40:57
think these things are a little more simpler that I have glad you're going to let them handle that I'm going to let
00:41:02
I'm going to let that go but here's the other thing the possibility that the suspect remember we said that he was
00:41:08
using the rul of some type of delivery mhm and he had papers with him that were supposed to be a part of that delivery
00:41:16
well here's my guess I'm guessing that the you know these women that were at the store these are not dumb ladies
00:41:24
there was something on those papers that guy had and what I mean by that is that
00:41:29
he's not going to be able to walk in there with some blank pieces of paper or something that has nothing to do with
00:41:34
anything at all and just be able to go hey I'm here to do this delivery my name's Joe you know and and and Roa and
00:41:43
these other ladies fall for it she was doing preventative measures to call another store thinking that there was a
00:41:50
potential mixup in some kind of delivery now yes he could have likely found some
00:41:56
pieces of paper somewhere that look like they're from a delivery he could have grabbed an invoice from somewhere else
00:42:01
but what I'm getting at is there was enough information on those pieces of paper that he was carrying with him and
00:42:11
there's many reports that state that he left those at the scene that the police recovered those right at the very least
00:42:17
could we find out one do they still exist and B what was printed on those papers is there anything on those papers
00:42:25
that would provide any type of information that could lead us to a potential suspect meaning why all these
00:42:32
years later haven't these papers been released to the public to help with this investigation and it could be something
00:42:39
as simple as these were papers that this person took from where they worked they
00:42:43
took them out of somebody's car just like the baseball hat there's there's a million ways that somebody can see
00:42:50
something somebody can see the right information and piece it together and you get that phone call you get that tip
00:42:57
that you need you are you're wearing me out man I'm wearing you out uh you just you're so uh uh passionate well the
00:43:06
thing here's the thing we've seen plenty of cases where we're sitting there 15 20
00:43:12
25 years later and they're like oh yeah okay we have this piece of information we have this piece of evidence we've
00:43:19
been holding on to it since day one let us show you the general public this now and ask for your help about it now and
00:43:28
at some point it gets to be too late right it just get I don't want to be sitting here 20 years from now and
00:43:32
they're like here's here's the papers here's the ball cap tell us what you think yeah so what do you think on this
00:43:39
case as far as a suspect goes let let me go go through this one at a time here I
00:43:45
only got two things to go through yeah okay so one before the other but the first one is the ca the case is very
00:43:53
strange to me in the sense that it's seems like a strange Target unless this person was just looking for a few
00:44:01
hundred but to me that that would be like a smash and grab that would be like get in there create as little chaos as
00:44:10
possible get your $2300 and then get the hell out of there that's not what happened in this situation for some
00:44:17
reason this person decided that they needed to take these individuals to the back room what is what is reported as a
00:44:26
an employee break room in the back MH which seems like a strange place to me I thought I thought with the rul of the
00:44:33
delivery that you're trying to work one of two angles either a you're trying to get into the store before it opens up
00:44:40
where either you think that there's more money involved in the robbery or where you won't have to encounter any
00:44:46
customers so if you're not if you're not using it to do that and he was aware that the store was open then the only
00:44:54
other reason for using the rul of of a delivery is to maybe work your way into the back parts of the store into the
00:45:01
office of the store without causing a commotion out in the storefront you know on the floor as they say mhm maybe
00:45:10
that's what he was using these papers for but it seems like a strange Target to me it seems like a strange way to
00:45:17
carry out a crime the other thing too is if you worked your way back to the office using those
00:45:23
papers it sounds to me the additional customers came in later while this robbery was in progress so he
00:45:32
took time out from what he was doing to go and capture these two individuals take them to the same location and bind
00:45:39
them as well it sounds to me like we have a situation I don't I don't know why he
00:45:46
was in that store for as long as he was the the the sexual why he would rob a store like that anyways well and the
00:45:54
sexual component to this is very weird as well now I know it's not terribly uncommon for for an offender to fondle
00:46:03
one of the hostages or say weird sexual things to one of the hostages I know it's not terribly uncommon but it seems
00:46:12
odd to me that this individual picked a Lane Bryant store where you might expect
00:46:17
to find nothing but females there right and then that sexual aspect occurred if if money was the thing why aren't you
00:46:25
just getting your money and getting the hell out of there yeah it could be sexually motivated and then the 91 call
00:46:32
911 call was placed that spooked them they had to get out of there or this person's incredibly
00:46:39
unstable because it it it's Ah that's what I think it's it's either there's a sexual component to it or this person
00:46:47
got in there didn't really know what they were doing started losing control fast or got angry because whatever or
00:46:54
however much money they thought they would get they didn't get and they got angry at the hostages and then like you
00:47:00
said now they're already angered and then they find out about the 911 call they Panic or they're angered more and
00:47:06
they're going to take out that anger on all of those women there now my theories
00:47:11
on who this person is they're not super detailed um but my gut tells me that this person is not local to Tinley Park
00:47:20
in any way the the 2010 de demographics of the a it would have been 88.8% Caucasian 3.7%
00:47:32
African-American and 3.9% Asian so just playing the numbers there would tell me that this individual might not be local
00:47:41
to the area plus I also do not think that it's any coincidence that the Interstate 80 is right there right there
00:47:49
by the scene right by the store he could have walked into any store that he wanted he chose that store for a
00:47:55
specific reason I also believe that this was not the first time this was this may be the
00:48:02
only time this man was ever in this Lane Bryant store meaning he didn't case the
00:48:08
joint in advance for this robbery and I have two points to this thought one the guy walks in and it's thought that he
00:48:16
was looking at the ceiling looking for cameras and two the surviving witness who worked at the store you know this
00:48:27
the majority of the time the Super majority of the time the clientele is strictly female at this store not male
00:48:34
and so it's possible that if this man had been in the store before that he might have stood out in some form that
00:48:41
may have been memorable to her and she doesn't there we don't have any evidence that she has seen this person before the
00:48:48
day so that that's my only thoughts on it that the guy probably wasn't local and I do believe that was his first
00:48:55
first and only time in that store all right is that your thought done that's as much as I have okay well you keep
00:49:05
saying he and I'm going to keep saying she I believe that this is a female I believe that the surviving witness did
00:49:15
not get a good enough look at this individual um I think maybe she heard this individual and it was maybe of a
00:49:23
more of a male tone to begin with and so that's she's assuming she saw a man that's just what
00:49:32
my gut is telling me that's also what my ears are telling me when I listen back and if that is the suspect on that 911
00:49:39
call to me that sounds like a female why I think it's more of a you know super bikes type
00:49:49
thing where this individual she went into this Lane Bryant at some point Point she you know had bad service
00:50:00
something I don't think the motivation was to rob the store I think the motivation was some type of Revenge and
00:50:07
that's why let's gather up all these people and let's put them in the back and let's duct tape
00:50:13
them I don't know how long the person thought they were going to be in there for but I think once that 911 call went
00:50:20
out and she saw it she killed all the people and then she left and I think she left in this small black SUV and most
00:50:29
men I would you know maybe this is sexist on some level but it's like most men will drive bigger SUVs women will
00:50:37
drive smaller SUVs so that's and the manicured fingernails that would make that make sense and there's just little
00:50:46
things that are really hard to explain in this case but they start making a little more sense like the cornrow with
00:50:52
the braid in front starts making a little a little more sense when you go well that's that's more of the way a
00:50:59
female would do their hair mhm so that's just what my gut is telling me and that's what my ears are telling me and I
00:51:06
think it was something like where the person felt wronged and they were going to prove a point you know or they're
00:51:11
going to kill people I mean this this person is psycho well and that's that's what I mean and and I'm you know I'm
00:51:18
sticking with my thoughts but that's what I mean and I I like that you bring up the super bike case that we've
00:51:24
covered here because that was really when once that thing was solved you're like holy [ __ ] this whole time the
00:51:34
motivation would make no for this murders and this crime would make zero sense to anybody but the person that
00:51:40
perpetrated the crime right and the biggest problem I have with this Lane Bryant case is why if they were there to
00:51:47
Rob why did they stay in the store for so long 40 minutes is a long time when you're trying to rob the store
00:51:53
especially that's why the the phone call from the manager to another store would
00:51:57
be important to me because if 25 minutes of that was this quote unquote delivery
00:52:02
person just standing around waiting for information right then then 40 minutes doesn't seem so long but if that phone
00:52:09
call happened within minutes of that individual walking into the store this person stayed in the store for an
00:52:14
incredibly amount of long amount of time right and furthermore here's what you wonder to on
00:52:20
your on your part if this was a Revenge killing or if this was for reasons we will never understand then how long did
00:52:30
this individual intend on staying in the store was it only the 911 call that stopped them from stay who's to say this
00:52:38
person wouldn't have stayed in there as long as possible and kept picking off the individuals as they come in each
00:52:44
customer comes in they are quickly escorted to the back room they're bound and they become another hostage MH so I
00:52:51
I like where you're thinking is the other thing too with the surviving Witness it may have in in a hyper panic
00:52:58
situation like this it may have simply been enough that if a female offender was wearing Male clothing right that
00:53:07
might have thrown her off and she might fully believe that she saw a male when in fact it was a female all right so I
00:53:15
guess I'm right you're not right but it's my birthday so I'm right no I I don't think you're wrong I'm just not
00:53:22
changing my opinion but you're just not going to say I'm right here we go Captain So speaking of females this
00:53:27
week's recommended reading we are recommending hell's princess the mystery of bell gunnis The Butcher of men by
00:53:35
Harold Sher and I've mentioned his name before on this fabulous show that we do I've also recommended his books before
00:53:42
Harold Sher is one hell of an author and one of the best researchers out there so
00:53:48
I recommend that you pick up hell's princess this is the definitive rendering of one of the most brutal of
00:53:54
all all female serial killers this book had me on the edge of my seat into the last page so check out Harold sher's new
00:54:02
book Hell's princess and if you're ever looking for good true crime books to read make sure you go to our website
00:54:09
True Crime garage.com because we do have the recommended page and there's a a list yes and for everything True Crime
00:54:16
Check out true Crim garage.com and for all of our garage friends out there that are on social media you can follow us at
00:54:24
True Crime if you are following make sure you wish the captain a very happy birthday a
00:54:30
happy birthday to you Colonel until next time friends be good be kind and don't [Music]
00:54:51
[Applause] litter [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to
00:55:10
tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to get all your home
00:55:16
projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that