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so [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening i'm your host nick and with me as always as a man that knows that fishing ain't what it used to be here is
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the captain yeah ever since that sob stole my boat it's gonna be seen it's good to see you
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thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are featuring sweet magnolias
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done right by our friends at the brewery this is an imperial stout aged in bourbon barrels with bananas madagascar
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vanilla beans and nilla wafers added you came looking for akilah and we brought the nilla garage grade a solid five out
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of five bottle caps and let's give some praise and thank you to our friends for helping us out here in the garage first
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up it cheers to jerry in memphis tennessee shout out to tony in san antonio texas and a long distance cheers
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goes out to bryce and coquitlam british columbia and a big we like your jib to kristin in st paul minnesota here's a
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big southern cheers that we're sending to julie in leander texas and last but certainly not least we have jake
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listening in los angeles california we want to thank everybody that helped us out with this week's beer fund because
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without all of you we would just be two thirsty guys sitting in a garage that's right we would be super thirsty
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so thanks for helping out with the bwrun beer run and if you need more true crime garage and i know you do
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i know you're looking for it underneath your bed underneath your closet underneath that pile of dirty clothes
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pick those up and do some laundry cause you stink my friend you need to get off the record on stitcher premium
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and if you don't we can't be friends i can't drink any more of your mother's lemonade and that is enough of the
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business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] me [Music] [Music] when we were wrapping up yesterday's episode captain we started talking about
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possible persons of interest or at least people that the police told the public they were looking
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for people that they wanted to interview and this came in the form of some names
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as well as descriptions of unknown individuals we need to start diving into some of
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these people that they were talking about at the top of today's show one of the individuals that they were
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looking for was a 23 year old convicted sex offender who later would be known as
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a person of interest in this case and his name is lee allen wu 23 years old convicted sex offender now
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they have not specifically announced or addressed any direct connection between this lee allen
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wu and leanna warner however they said that he became a person of interest one because of his
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criminal background and two because he stole a vehicle on the same day that lyanna disappeared and operated that
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vehicle with a expired license or invalid license at the time of course when you have somebody with a
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criminal background and it is a sex offense you have a little girl who goes missing a guy that's known to be in the
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area and he steals a vehicle on that day and chooses to break other laws you want
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to know as an investigator why why on this day did you feel the need to steal a vehicle and operate illegally
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operate a vehicle authorities also asked for help in locating john bartel who they said was not a suspect all we know
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about him is that police said that he was known to travel between chisholm and the twin cities
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they were also looking for a bruce william christensen of hibbing minnesota he was not a
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suspect but could have vital information in the case bruce christensen had 17 criminal cases
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filed against him between the years of 1997 and 2006 so a busy guy he eventually went to prison for robbery
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where he beat a fellow inmate to death with a piece of railing that he broke off in order to use as a weapon he was
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sentenced to an additional 30 years for that murder an article about his sentencing
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says that in september of 2003 he pled guilty to making terrorist threats against kailyn warner
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very interesting sounds like a piece of [ __ ] 2003 september he pled guilty to making terrorist threats against the
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mother of leanna warner christensen apparently blamed kailyn for the police interest in him in leanna's case and
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threatened to shoot her we don't know if there was any direct connection between kailyn warner
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and this guy but he attempted to attack a prosecutor in court and was subject to
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several mental health evaluations around the same time yeah a real piece of [ __ ]
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so it sounds to me captain like when police ask you that horrible question that that nobody wants to be asked do
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you know anybody that would want to harm your family or hurt your child or would
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have any reason to do something against your family i don't know this to be the case but i'm
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wondering if this man for whatever reason was somebody that was named by the family
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because it seems like he wanted revenge or to retaliate against the warner family specifically kaelin
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for the police interest in him yeah but it shows you the reason why they're looking at you
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because you go on to threaten the mother it's like look if you had nothing to do
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with it it's like look i'm i'm willing to cooperate i'm willing to answer your questions
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i had nothing to do with this yeah he's definitely a violent man at the end of the day no doubt about that
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sean burteck who we referenced and yesterday's episode was arrested on july 10th burtec was arrested on outstanding
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warrants rather than anything to do with leanna warner's case but he was one of the individuals that they named at that
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press conference as having an interest in speaking with but while police did confirm that bertek was a convicted sex
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offender they said that after interviewing him he was being considered more of a witness than a suspect we see
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that in a lot of cases when somebody goes missing or there's possibly a crime within the
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area they do the old pedo roundup they realize some of these guys are not registered correctly
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some of these guys have warrants and they make arrests and so there's a lot of arrests that are that have nothing to
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do with the disappearance but that's just a byproduct of of this girl going missing right on these are issuing
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and um carrying out outstanding warrants on this guy and then after you speak with him you you can
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tell that he was in the area and you could probably back up what he was doing in his whereabouts during that time so
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he like anybody else in that neighborhood or that that general area would be now
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witness status of course in any missing child case investigators would not be doing their job if they did not take a
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hard look at those with the easiest access to the missing child and of course we're talking about the family
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authorities said fairly quickly that they were comfortable with what the family was telling them that lyanna
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disappeared while away from home and they had nothing to do with it in fact they don't seem to have suspected the
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parents at all or if they did it was very brief and behind the scenes reports indicate that the warners were
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not asked to take polygraphs as you pointed out captain but the fact is kaelin warner was one of the last people
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to see leanna lyanna could have returned home after finding that the quirks were out
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putting her home by 5 20 or so if that were the case then what happened her mother didn't call police until 8 48 pm
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and we know that based off of the phone records and everybody else involved in this case so what do we know about the
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warners the media covering the case revealed that kailyn and chris had been married before and there was some
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indication of turmoil in at least one of their relationships the year before lyanna was born in 1998 chris warner and
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his ex-wife got into a violent confrontation involving blows both sought mutual restraining orders and
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chris's ex maintaining that he had an uncontrollable temper chris's petition for a restraining order stated that his
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ex-wife had threatened kailyn and her two daughters from a her previous marriage
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authorities looked at the situation but said that the incident with the ex-wife quote didn't raise any red flags
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now we don't know how thoroughly they looked into the ex-wife but we i would say that raises some flags
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yeah and you should look into it but again if she has a solid alibi then maybe that's why they moved on well
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and it sounds like a lot of this a lot of these issues between him and his ex by then they may have buried the
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hatchet right because the the the confrontation the violent confrontation between the two occurred in 1998. uh
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leanna warner didn't go missing until 2003. chris warner was a heavy equipment mechanic
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at a nearby employer as well as a volunteer for the ambulance service he shared a son anthony warner with his
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ex-wife kaelin was a manager at easy stop a convenience store in chisholm there is another weird story involving
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lyanna and the warners that came out and again investigators dismissed it as amounting to nothing but it is a little
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strange according to the warners and this is the warner's telling us this story someone reported to social
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services that leanna had been tied up the warner's told the social worker investigating the complaint
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that liana was playing with neighborhood kids and they had been playing maypole and had used lyanna as the maypole while
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they wrapped a jump rope around her it's hard to know whether social services dismiss this as a simple
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child's game or child's play or whether there was a file opened on the warner's this is one of those situations where
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it's like you can understand if there was a misunderstanding but you also go okay well it's hard to believe that
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somebody would bother to report this incident if they didn't feel that there was really something here it also seems
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captain that we're sitting here 18 years later and if this was a red flag if this was
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something that we should really question call into question the people investigating the
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disappearance and and the possible suspects are not dummies this is not something that slips past the goalie
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here this is something that would be at the top of the stack as far as information goes on the parents and
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something they would have looked at and something they would have questioned both chris and kalyn about all right so
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we have this issue of question some of the behavior question letting the child go off on her own
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i think that's all fair game so you have to wonder could the parents have some responsibility here do they know what
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happened to their daughter is one guilty and not the other all kinds of questions
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immediately pop up when you see these types of cases i feel pretty confident but it's just a guess and it's just a
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gut feeling that i don't see the parents having any involvement in the disappearance of this little girl
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the only involvement i see is people that were desperate to find her and went to every effort that they
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possibly could if somebody told them that they here's something that could help your
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case or help you find your daughter they did it they didn't hold back well also with christopher being a
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volunteer emt worker a volunteer emt worker that if there was some accident they wouldn't try to cover it up
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they would call call squad and and try to get her help immediately here's a couple things that i want to
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point out to people too and it doesn't seem like the general public consider the parents to be suspects either and i
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think that anybody that really takes a good hard look at this case what you're going to see is a couple
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things it looks to me that chris was gone during the time in question and an ambulance run at 6 20
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p.m that's a pretty ironclad alibi as far as i'm concerned there's going to be other individuals there there's going to
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be documentation of this so on and so forth that's pretty straightforward to me now we can call into question
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kalin's decision making as a parent we can call in a question the wiggle room in the
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timeline that the sheriff referenced the other thing too you know we're quick to point out hey
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eyewitnesses are not always great about giving you an exact time on something because they're not sitting there
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noting everything that happened that day and noting what time that they witness something right so with her having this
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moving time of when leanna left her site it could be just that exact same situation she said that we just got back
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from the lake i was busy unloading the car bringing in stuff that we purchased at these garage sales
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and the kids badgering me about wanting to go to her friend's house i really didn't want her to go there
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and i told her she could go well what time was that well i don't know it was after we got home from the lake
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well that's when that's when sometimes you can arrive at the wrong time by the encouragement of law enforcement
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because incur they're encouraging you because they're telling you look i understand you weren't looking at the
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clock i need you to ballpark this thing for me or at least give me a guess i need something a starting point
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and she may have given a bad time we we're talking about a mother who's busy the reason why i think that law
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enforcement did not consider them suspects and didn't consider them suspects early on is
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the window of time to do something to this little girl dispose and conceal that crime
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takes time and effort and i think that when they really broke down the timeline and the people that
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were seeing the parents interacting with the parents and the what the eyewitness
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statements were that saw the little girl at 5 15 did not give a window of time that anybody could have
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done anything and covered it up and we don't know what kind of searches that law enforcement did on their vehicles
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and so if if you have cadaver dogs sniff the vehicles if you run some tests on the vehicles
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you're gonna go well we we don't believe she was transported well and nine times
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out of ten hopefully it should be 10 out of 10 this is pretty standard police protocol but if you are
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responding to a call about a missing child the first thing you ask the parents of course you want to know what
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were they wearing when did you last see them but one of the first actions that you
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actually take beyond asking questions of the parents or any person that may have seen the child
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is ma'am we understand that your daughter's missing we're going to search the neighborhood we're going to ask you know
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we're going to search the area we need to search your home first and that happens in in every case that
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i've ever reviewed that is the first action that seems to be taken when police are responding to that type of
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call and i have no reason to believe that that did not happen here and that also could be backing the thoughts of
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law enforcement that these people didn't have anything to do with it i also want to point out
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one big problem with the parents being guilty of anything or or or uh kalyn being guilty of having done anything
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they weren't the kailyn wasn't the only person home that day remember her the daughter the other daughter
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was with them for the entirety of that day she was 10 years old at that time now she's not an adult obviously but
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she's also not a little kid if something bad happened she could tell us about that and the 10
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year old daughter was active in the neighborhood search for lyanna almost immediately yeah it'd be hard to one
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convince her that you have you have to lie for mommy and two that she would be able have the
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capability to put on a great acting show for the public right and the other thing
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too is both kailyn the daughter that was 10 years old at the time and chris warner have remained
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active in front of the media on this case for 18 years so this 10 year old daughter is now an
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adult and she continues to do interviews about this case so it again there doesn't seem to be time
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for anything to happen involving kailyn well two kind of creepy things and like you said when
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they when they when law enforcement shows up at the scene they go hey let's search the house
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but they also start asking the parents like did anything weird happen in the last month or so has there been
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a vehicle that's been seen in the neighborhood have you seen some uh creepy character
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walking around one of the things that they said was well she one night when we went into
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leanne's room she was sleeping in her closet because she was afraid that the monsters outside her window were gonna
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get hurt yeah that's a very curious situation to this whole story and unfortunately this happens
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daily where a child is afraid of something and we don't know exactly what it is as a parent
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and most of the time it's almost always it's nothing here it's something we really call into question
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because of the state of this case where we have a little girl who disappears and
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we can't find any trace of her but like you said a child being afraid of the monsters under her bed or monsters under
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her closet you hear that more than you hear monsters outside my window right and in this situation you do have
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the parents who would be later telling us that they thought that lyanna was behaving oddly
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in the days or maybe even weeks leading up to her disappearance which is very interesting to me and we'll dive
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into that some more but while we're still talking about the parents you know i don't want to get accused of
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leaving anything out here because we do have a situation where a few months this was october after
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their daughter went missing we do have a violent altercation between the two parents uh kailyn and chris
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where apparently kalyn attempted to run chris over with their vehicle almighty they had apparently they had
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some kind of disagreement earlier that day or earlier that night to which police responded to their home
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and settled the matter whatever it was at the time and then within an hour or so
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this argument is now taking place in their vehicle as they're driving to which a very frustrated chris warner
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gets out of the vehicle and says that he would be walking the rest of the way home i'm sure he probably said it in in
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a different manner but uh kalyn uh hit the gas pedal and and took off after him in the vehicle
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and he jumped out of the way he received some scrapes maybe a couple of bruises but uh what
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happened was kaelin ended up being charged with a a misdemeanor in that case but the police have been extremely
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vocal about that situation saying look we spoke with the couple before this happened and we spoke with
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them obviously afterwards and we have kaelin who she says that the gears got jammed up
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and and she kind of lost control of the vehicle so she denies the saying that you know she denies that she
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attempted to hit her husband with the vehicle regardless of what actually happened we
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have the police saying this matter and leanna's disappearance are not connected they are two completely separate matters
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the couple was fighting they were arguing but they were not arguing about lyanna or anything about the case
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and look i'm not gonna lie to you captain this seemed very troubling to me because what it shows is
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angry impulsive behavior especially on kailyn's behalf which we know that she's on her behalf her own word well she's
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the one that if if if she's lying if the gears didn't get stuck if she didn't lose control of the car and she did try
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to hit her husband with the car that's the violence getting out of a vehicle and saying i'm
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gonna walk home is not a violent act at all but what we have here is we have a person who is
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admittedly the last person the last family member to see leanna so that really made me call a lot of things into
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question but then i found this little tidbit here that made me feel completely different
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and go back to what my gut was telling me in the beginning that kalyn and the family has nothing to do with this
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this comes from patty wetterling whose son jacob disappeared in 1989 and when at the time when she is quoted
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in this article this is 2003. so keep in mind jacob disappeared in 1989 and by this point in the article he had never
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been found they didn't know what happened to him they knew he was abducted she says in this article
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that she's would like to discourage anyone from making a judgment about the warners because of this particular
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incident she says quote nobody knows what it's like to have your child missing for this
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long people always ask me did it bring us closer together and i say no it's just the opposite
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jerry who is her husband jerry and i went through some very hard times with so much anger frustration and anxiety
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it's absolutely the biggest test you ever go through as a couple it's a nightmare now we know that the
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wetterlings have nothing to do with what happened to their son jacob they were victimized just
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like everybody else in that situation and i think that what what we have patty wetterling telling us
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here is very interesting to me because this is the way that i've always kind of seen
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these types of situations right if in the wetterling case it was the father that decided yeah you guys can ride your
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bikes down to the video store and pick up a video this was after mom said no you can't
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you cannot tell me that there are not arguments between mom and dad over who's responsible who wasn't a good
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parent who didn't do their job if he was in my care this would never have happened
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because you get sad your your heart breaks and then you get angry those are natural feelings
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and i have to believe in leanna's case something very similar very likely happened
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where you get in a disagreement about this that or the other thing but your heart is broken and you're hurting and
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you want somebody to lash out to and it might be easy to go you know what mom you told her she could walk down there
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why the hell would you let a five-year-old walk down there by herself if she were with me that day this would
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never have happened and you can't tell me that that woman's not going to defend her self as a mother
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so i can see this playing out exactly how it did and have nothing to do with the case and not suggest that they
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are guilty of anything other than being grieving parents that are hurting and heartbroken
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all right just to put a bow on this here captain regarding this situation we need
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to point out that chris warner stood by his wife telling the media that kaelin was on
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edge and had reached a breaking point he blamed this on a montel williams show that the two recently taped but it had
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not aired yet at this point now on the show the psychic sylvia brown told the warners that lyanna was murdered and
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buried in a shallow grave not far from their home chris warner says they didn't know
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that that's what was going to happen during the taping of the show they didn't know that somebody was going to
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tell them that they thought she was murdered and buried near their home remember at this point we're just months
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into the case and they're still holding out hope that their daughter is alive and i think they felt like they were
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blindsided by this and they said that they left the taping feeling used and upset
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by the montel williams show and that this was something that that created an issue
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between the two of the parents and it was it was just not good i mean this was they kind of felt like
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we're down and you're gonna kick us while we're down so i think one can see quickly how
00:27:14
these types of things can happen [Music] all right you knuckleheads hey front and the back front in the back
00:27:48
to the windows to the wall cheers everybody cheers everybody on september 15 2003 this is three months
00:27:57
after leanna disappeared news reports began to surface about an interesting development a man
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named matthew james curtis age 24 had been questioned multiple times in connection with leanna's case police
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talked to him the day after leanna vanished and again four days later questions included police asking about
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his whereabouts and when lyanna was last seen curtis lived at a house near the warner's in the neighborhood in fact
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just a couple of houses down at the time that lyanna went missing according to a
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news article in the virginia m n paper police spoke with curtis in the course of the investigation into lyanna
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presumably because he was such a close neighbor whatever they learned during these interviews was enough for them to
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get a warrant to search his home and when they went out to carry out this search warrant there they found kitty
00:29:00
porn on his computer so curtis was arrested charged and released on bail on september 17th
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curtis was found dead of an apparent suicide three men were practicing archery in a
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gravel pit area on national forest land and found curtis's body this is about eight miles from his home right he was
00:29:24
found with a plastic bag tied over his head and the cause of death after an autopsy was declared to be
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self-inflicted asphyxiation the sheriff's department said it was investigating to
00:29:38
see whether there was any connection between the two cases and said that curtis had never been declared an
00:29:44
official suspect but had never been cleared either on the day curtis's body was found he
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was out on bail and was scheduled to appear in court for that child porn charge but he failed to appear he killed
00:29:57
himself before the court appointment the sheriff's department searched the gravel
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pit in curtis's home twice but found no signs of lyanna what we don't know is what turned police
00:30:08
onto curtis in the first place what was the basis for that search warrant well at the time that lyanna
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went missing there was a man that some people say maybe was in his 30s was walking around
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the neighborhood uh described as approximately 5 10 to 6 foot and had some kind of dark tattoo so i
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always wondered there was like i said people in the area saying that there was this suspicious
00:30:38
guy walking the neighborhood did they connect that back to curtis i guess that could be a
00:30:45
possibility but that statement from police when they're looking for the person of that description
00:30:51
comes it's made public after the suicide no after they requested the search warrant for his home
00:31:00
so what's difficult here is we know based off of what the police are telling us that they spoke with this curtis
00:31:06
character the day after lyanna went missing and then again four days later okay so some so we can just assume that
00:31:13
something within that questioning made him go something's not right here that's what i'm thinking captain i agree with
00:31:20
that something during the course of them stepping foot into his home or standing
00:31:24
on his front doorstep and asking him questions told them this guy his home is of interest to us
00:31:33
specifically in this liana case and that could be something as simple as this guy seemed extremely nervous
00:31:42
when we were asking him that day after that she was missing right or he couldn't tell us where he was or had no
00:31:48
alibi or he was sweating profusely or he told us something on day one and then told us something different on day four
00:31:56
it could really be any number of things but the thing that's crazy here is that when they do get that search warrant
00:32:03
they search his home they file child pornography on his computer well that doesn't look very good
00:32:09
especially when this dude lives just a few doors down from the warners yeah i never like it when there's a
00:32:16
suicide in the sense of we don't have answers then and my gut always goes towards
00:32:26
this suspect you commit suicide you you're so distraught about what you did you can't
00:32:33
even live with yourself and suicide is not a obvious sign of guilt doesn't necessarily mean that he
00:32:39
felt guilty or or did something to lyanna i mean really he could have killed himself for any number of reasons
00:32:46
and he's not around to tell us why he did so we do have the warner's lyanna's parents who say hey you know we
00:32:54
saw this guy around the neighborhood but never saw lyanna interacting with him and we
00:32:59
didn't personally know him i do know that police continued to look into curtis postmortem
00:33:07
they did admit shamefully admitted that it would have been desirable for them to have talked
00:33:13
to him some more which possibly they were going to do that after he was charged or convicted we don't know but
00:33:19
of course now they will never get the chance to do so we do know that the minnesota bca
00:33:28
confiscated matthew james curtis's truck after he killed himself and processed it for forensic evidence
00:33:36
of lyanna's presence to see if you know they could find any proof that she had ever been inside his vehicle right
00:33:43
this did include dna and fingerprints and fibers and hairs they couldn't find any trace of lyanna having ever been in
00:33:50
that truck but we do need to point out this was after matthew james curtis's death which took place in september
00:33:58
leanne warner went missing the 14th of june so there would have been plenty of time for one to
00:34:06
clean this vehicle if one needed to do so well like i was saying to me when there's a suicide in the case you know
00:34:13
take like the amy mahalovic case when there's a suspect that takes their own life
00:34:19
my gut points to that that suspect but here is a different case because he's found
00:34:26
because when they're investigating this missing girl case they find this individual we don't know what led them
00:34:35
i'm guessing like we were talking about before when they're interviewing him he says
00:34:40
something not correctly or maybe just acts strangely and then when they when they do get the search warrant
00:34:48
they find child pornography and that could be enough for this individual to say hey look my life's not going right i
00:34:56
maybe have this i'm a sick individual for looking at this stuff i have these urges that i'm
00:35:01
trying to control and that's why he took his life so there are types out there that have
00:35:08
these fantasies urges whatever you want to call them desires and they never act on them
00:35:16
i mean we just don't know again it's a situation i'm with you captain it's you hate the suicides one
00:35:23
uh for any you know you hate the suicide for a million different reasons but one of
00:35:28
the big reasons especially in this case is that it creates another mystery in this case it creates one less person
00:35:35
to talk to and in my opinion this guy in in the humble goat garage opinion here captain this matthew james curtis
00:35:45
guy i would put him in the top three of suspects in this case now that's going to lead us to another
00:35:53
top three suspect and this is an individual that i despise one of the most hated men on the planet
00:36:03
as far as my mind goes that's not a nice way to talk about me this is a guy that
00:36:07
we've spoke about several times here in the garage and i never enjoy talking about him i'm talking about joseph
00:36:13
edward duncan iii so we're gonna jump ahead two years in this case to july of 2005.
00:36:22
now of course leanna's case is continuing to be worked at this time but meanwhile in coeur d'alene idaho
00:36:28
investigators captured suspected murderer and sex offender joseph e duncan he was charged with the abduction
00:36:36
of eight-year-old shasta grony and suspected of murdering shasta's 13 year old brother
00:36:42
mother boyfriend and missing nine-year-old brother dylan now you may remember for the long time
00:36:50
listeners joining us here in the garage today you may recall that we covered this case in our fifth nail episodes the
00:36:58
fifth nail was a blog basically an online rant written by joseph duncan in which he published his rambling
00:37:06
fantasies and dark thoughts he also talked about his love for computers you may also recall that duncan served
00:37:13
time in prison for the rape of a 14 year old tacoma washington boy when duncan was just 16 years old himself he was
00:37:21
released in 2000 so how does duncan's case possibly tie into leanna's case chief erickson
00:37:29
said that federal investigators were tracing joseph duncan's movements over the past
00:37:34
few years because of a posting on his fifth nail blog that appeared on january 4th
00:37:40
2004 in fact this post was the first of the fifth nail blog duncan wrote that learning about
00:37:48
lyanna's case was quote the proverbial last straw that led him to start his blog to rant about the stigma of being a
00:37:57
convicted sex offender yeah because that's what we want to hear about he does not mention leanna by name and
00:38:03
it seems that he felt the need to construct an alibi for the time that lyanna went missing
00:38:10
the exact words of the post were quote just found out that a five-year-old girl went missing from chisholm minnesota
00:38:18
on june 14 2003 i did not even know until today this happened so i have tried to figure out what i was
00:38:26
doing that day since i'm always afraid of getting accused when something like this happens end quote the post said
00:38:33
that duncan wanted to be sure that he figured out his whereabouts in june of 2003 when leanna vanished so that he
00:38:39
wouldn't be accused of being the one that abducted her he says he was doing this for his own safety and wrote i
00:38:47
figure it is just a matter of time before i am falsely accused of some crime or another
00:38:53
well yes you will be accused i don't know if it will be falsely in several different cases we know captain just to
00:39:01
for the people that didn't listen to the fifth nail he was convicted of all those
00:39:05
crimes he was accused of or thought to have done this guy has a dirt bag he's an animal he basically murdered a whole
00:39:12
family so he could abduct the two youngest children and he had those kids with him for a
00:39:18
long period of time where he tormented and tortured the kids yeah thankfully one of them was found alive
00:39:26
and is still alive and doing well to this day all these years later another thing to
00:39:31
be thankful about is they were able to tie joseph duncan to some other homicides and i suspect he's probably
00:39:38
done others that we are unaware of duncan was not the type to admit to any of his crimes he was the type that
00:39:47
one he would like to play games mind games and torment and tease the police and the public in the media
00:39:54
and i think that was a big part of the reason why he created his blog so he could do that from behind prison walls
00:40:01
the other thing too is that when you did finally convict him of something he would go out of his way
00:40:08
to explain to the public that the victims were not so innocent themselves that they had some blame in this and he
00:40:15
blamed some of the victims that he killed for their own deaths which is just completely bizarre in demonic behavior
00:40:25
in my opinion thankfully we can sit here in the garage today and raise a glass real high because joseph duncan passed
00:40:32
away last year and i hope he enjoyed every minute of it now chief erickson stated in this case that there was
00:40:40
nothing specific tying duncan to lyanna but did say it's very suspicious that he
00:40:45
brought the case up on his blog in fact if we are to believe joseph duncan he says that the case is what started the
00:40:53
whole blog to begin with blog more like clog i again duncan's a hard guy to get to put your finger on
00:41:01
i don't know if he would do this as something just simply to taunt i'm never putting my finger on him
00:41:06
police or lyanna's family i also don't think that he's above enjoying being suspected of crimes he
00:41:15
didn't commit yeah it's attention seeking you're exactly well looks like you just
00:41:21
put your finger on him told you i'm not gonna touch that son of a [ __ ] duncan says that he according to
00:41:28
his records that he was able to figure out what he claims to have been doing that day was watching some co-workers
00:41:34
parachute and that he did some shopping but could not find any receipts which makes sense he's locked up
00:41:43
anyway duncan did live in fargo north dakota and was when he was arrested on the grony case
00:41:50
but he was wanted on child molestation charges stemming from an incident in detroit lakes minnesota in 2004. now
00:41:57
fargo north dakota is much closer to detroit lakes minnesota than it is to chisholm minnesota and in fact
00:42:05
much closer to detroit lakes than detroit lakes is to chisholm minnesota if that makes sense uh duncan was
00:42:12
arrested for molesting a six-year-old boy on a playground in detroit lakes which is about a three hour drive from
00:42:20
chisholm minnesota now i do want to point out the other crimes that he did he would have had to drive a long
00:42:27
distance to do so so i can't i cannot completely just go alright he he says he was doing this on that day
00:42:37
and the distance between him and where this disappearance took place i don't think any of that rules him out
00:42:44
in fact there was uh one person who's done some good gangbusters work here and online an online sleuther that
00:42:52
posted that a treasure hunt winner found a treasure hunt winner log of a camping and scuba trip putting joseph
00:43:02
duncan in crosby minnesota in august of 2003. so this is interesting it's it's not you know it would be weeks away from
00:43:12
the disappearance but it puts him much closer in proximity to chisholm minnesota and it lists jet
00:43:20
duncan on this treasure hunt winner log joseph duncan called himself jet duncan he won a snorkel mask and defogger
00:43:32
in that contest by july 21st of 2005 investigators stated publicly that they had cleared
00:43:40
duncan of any possible involvement in leanna's disappearance i have no idea how or why they reached
00:43:47
this conclusion the best that i can think of captain they we know that investigators seized video
00:43:54
footage that duncan took the day of his co-worker skydiving so there that's not in question he he was there and
00:44:03
witnessed these people skydiving at some point the time stamp shows that they were diving in the afternoon the airport
00:44:11
where the dive took place is about a four-hour drive from chisholm i would like to see that exact time
00:44:18
stamp i would like to interview those people his co-workers can we determine 100 percent that he was
00:44:26
where he was when that time stamp says could he have altered that time stamp in any manner right those are just the the
00:44:32
questions that i have again he's such a horrible and despicable person i think if he's talking about a case and he's
00:44:41
putting himself on your radar you cannot remove him from your radar until you need to definitive proof yeah
00:44:50
because like we said this guy's a animal he's very capable of abducting a child that would that's
00:44:58
actually low on his list of what he's capable of you almost need the word of god to tell you that he did not do this
00:45:04
for for me to remove him he's i i'd like to move on from him now because i'm just sick of thinking about
00:45:11
him if that's okay with you captain well you're the go because this is going to bring us to
00:45:15
another story and probably the strangest portion of this case in my mind this this actually
00:45:24
gives me nightmares in 2006 some more information came to light and this was not news to the family this news is
00:45:35
going to come from the family because they say this is actually something that they discussed with investigators
00:45:41
but the investigators didn't seem to agree with them that this was an interesting avenue to investigate the
00:45:49
family decided at some point well you know what we're just going to tell the public about this we've told
00:45:53
investigators about this no you know i don't know if they have done stuff the investigators i don't
00:46:00
know if they did anything with this information or not they've never referenced it but the parents say that
00:46:04
the investigators did not seem interested in this information so now we're going to put it out to the public
00:46:10
and tell the world chris and kailyn warner went on the maury povich show this is october of 2006
00:46:19
and they decided that this information was worth disclosing after three years of it being largely ignored or given no
00:46:26
credence by police leanna they said one day came home with a case filled with barbie dolls and clothing for the
00:46:36
barbie dolls but would only tell her parents that she that she had got them from a little old
00:46:43
lady furthermore a week before she vanished their little daughter had packed up a
00:46:49
suitcase and said she was going to go live with her new family at her new family's house this was around the same
00:46:56
time that she started sleeping in the closet telling her father that there were monsters outside of her window yeah
00:47:03
to come home and see your daughter playing with maybe a a doll right and saying somebody gave it to her
00:47:13
okay maybe a garage sale in the neighborhood maybe she was playing with the doll at her
00:47:22
friend's house parents said hey just take this but when there's a doll and there's
00:47:27
a case filled with dolls and clothes multiple items and all she can say is it came from a little old lady that's it's
00:47:36
pretty creepy well yeah and let's go back to you know we referenced an online sleuther putting up
00:47:45
some information about uh duncan and his possible whereabouts you know in august of 2003
00:47:54
there was a person a woman who posted on tape a talk's website under the leanna warner discussion group
00:48:02
that says that she was about 12 years old at the time when leanna went missing and
00:48:07
was a sitter a regular sitter for lyanna she tells a story that once at the park
00:48:15
with leanna that leanna had told her she was going on a trip without her parents
00:48:20
now again this is something that somebody's posting online i can't verify that this
00:48:26
person was an actual babysitter for lyanna i can't verify that this story took place
00:48:32
it does seem to line up with some information that lyanna's parents are saying that they said in 2006.
00:48:40
so i found that to be incredibly interesting the thing that this really reminds me of here captain is is a case
00:48:47
that we've discussed here in the garage the asia degree case out of north carolina
00:48:54
this is where asia seems to have taken off on foot in the middle of the night we don't know where she was going or why
00:49:04
but she disappears we've never found any trace of her the only thing that they found after she went missing was a
00:49:11
strange photo of another little girl and this photo's never been identified there's never been anybody that came
00:49:17
forward that said oh i was that person in the photo or i was the person that gave
00:49:23
asia that photo right so to me that photo will always be tied to her disappearance and the reason possible
00:49:30
reason for her leaving her home that night and then in this case very same situation right it's it seems
00:49:38
very similar to me captain where we have the parents telling the public you know somebody gave our daughter all
00:49:44
these barbie dolls and all the clothing to go with these barbie dolls we asked her where she got them some little old
00:49:50
lady gave them to her we've never that was in 2006. let me check my calendar it's 2021.
00:49:57
we've never had anybody come forward and say i was that person that gave her those dolls
00:50:02
i i you know they were used to be my daughters my kid had grown up i had them laying around i was going to throw them
00:50:08
out or i was going to put them in up in a garage sale i saw the little kid gave them to her there's never been
00:50:14
anybody come forward and say or people come forward and say oh i know who gave them to her you know there's no
00:50:21
answer to this question well that's why it reminds me of the a ramsay case because day john benedict ramsay goes
00:50:28
missing she is telling people that santa claus is coming to visit her after christmas it's just one of those
00:50:36
weird stories where you're never going to get that out of your head why is this little girl playing with
00:50:42
like you said it's a collection of dolls and a collection of clothes for those dolls who was this
00:50:50
little old lady did the little old lady even exist because these individuals that abduct children and thank god it's
00:50:58
such a rare crime but even these individuals that groom children or molest them or try to
00:51:06
groom them into some kind of bizarro relationship they're very manipulative they're very
00:51:13
in tune to how to trick these kids it's much easier for them if they can get and convince the kid to go along
00:51:21
with whatever it is that the adult wants to do willingly rather than kicking and screaming
00:51:27
it doesn't have to be a little old lady i'm i'm with you i want to know who the little old lady is but then i also
00:51:32
wonder could it have been a 20-something year old man or a 30-something-year-old man that says
00:51:40
oh if anybody asks where you got these right you know i don't want to have to come and take them from you
00:51:46
if mom and dad or mom finds out that you got them from me you're going to get in
00:51:50
trouble right just tell them that you got them from a little old lady here's the other thing that's interesting too
00:51:56
to me we know that both of leanna's parents came from they were they were married before they were married to each
00:52:03
other if i'm an outsider and i'm viewing this situation or i have any idea of that oh
00:52:10
you got you got brothers and sisters that have other families well guess what little leanna
00:52:16
you have another family too just like your brothers and sisters you've just not met them yet
00:52:23
and here's a gift from one of your family members yeah but there's also sickos that
00:52:29
want to want to steal children and raise them as their own yeah they see this precious
00:52:38
beautiful little girl and they go i want her i want her to be mine and that's equally
00:52:47
possible i think captain you and i we stand in agreement here that these three scenarios are of the most
00:52:55
interest to us yeah i agree these individuals joseph edward duncan who for no rhyme or reason decides to
00:53:03
discuss the case on his blog we certainly know the horror horrific acts that he is capable of
00:53:11
right we have the guy that lives just a couple doors down that's caught with child pornography
00:53:17
in his home and he during the course of questioning he goes from being a possible witness to
00:53:26
somebody that police have such an interest in that they get a search warrant to search his home and that's
00:53:31
when they find the child pornography in his house yeah and that is matthew james
00:53:37
curtis and then this weird story about lyanna having another family or going to live with her other family and receiving
00:53:46
this gift from a quote-unquote little old lady is really bizarre stuff i think those three things
00:53:54
to me in this case where you have a lot of questionable behavior and a lot of persons of interest and we've discussed
00:54:02
a lot of those those three for me sit at the top of my list as far as the disappearance to leanna warner well and
00:54:10
don't forget about the monsters outside her window that are going to come take her away lyanna's parents
00:54:17
chris and kailyn have moved away from the home in chisholm that lyanna lived in with them they say that this decision
00:54:25
was very hard for them and that they were worried that she might not be able to find them should she return but it
00:54:31
seems after 18 years of holding on to hope on the basis of nothing reality has prevailed they still leave the porch
00:54:40
light on though cases like the solving of jacob wetterling's abduction and the three ohio women found in ariel castro's
00:54:48
basement continue to give them hope and the fact that no trace of lyanna was found in the thorough
00:54:56
and painstaking searches of a wide radius makes part of them believe that she was taken out of the area and
00:55:04
possibly could still be alive most likely chris warner believes that she may be a victim of a black market
00:55:13
abduction 2021 marks 18 years since leanna vanished the now chisholm police chief
00:55:21
believes that lyanna was abducted and investigators in law enforcement have said
00:55:27
the same thing within a week or so of the case that they believe this is one of those rare
00:55:33
cases of stranger abduction they still consider this to be very much an open case
00:55:40
but everyone is incredibly frustrated because there seems to be nothing to go on in 2013 the national center for
00:55:49
missing and exploited children released an age progression picture of what leanna might look like at the age of 15
00:55:58
and continues to issue flyers and posters about liam [Music] [Music] as always we want to hear from you
00:56:30
on any of the episodes that we covered we want to hear your thoughts and opinions because we know you guys are no
00:56:36
dumb dumbs no dumb dumb heads here in the garage colonel do we have any recommended
00:56:43
reading uh yes we do captain a little recommended reading also maybe a little more of the recommended
00:56:50
listening this week we are recommending they call me baba bowie we're gonna step
00:56:55
outside of true crime and have a little fun this is for anyone that's a howard stern fan i highly recommend the audio
00:57:03
version of they call me baba bowie by the great gary delebate you can find that recommendation as well as many
00:57:12
others on our website truecrimegarage.com some say it's the best book ever written
00:57:20
some say that and until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause]
00:57:35
[Music] you