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[Music] [Applause] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who shoots whiskey as a pre-workout drink he is the
00:01:53
captain Suns out guns out Bros it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
00:02:00
a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking pallet jack by the hardworking people at Barley
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Saskatchewan Canada sasan and a big we like your jib to Heather and Harker Heights Texas next up
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that means that she's one of the pretty girls and last but not least we have Kristen in La who says captain please
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marry my roommate Rachel well well it's such an honor and a privilege that you don't want to marry me you're just going
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to pass me off to your your bum roommate well thanks to everybody for helping us
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fill up the fridge the fridge in the garage is looking pretty pretty good this week if you want to buy us around
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for next week's show go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button yeah and the money that we don't
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use for beer we do use on liquor all right Captain that's enough of the garage business everybody gather around
00:03:39
grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] [Music] crime kyen Horman is 7 years old he
00:03:59
attends the Skyline Elementary School in Oregon he is in the second grade now on
00:04:05
Friday June 4th 2010 the Skyline Elementary opens early at 8:00 a.m. so students and parents can
00:04:12
tour the science fair Terry Horman kiran's stepmother arrives with kirn at school shortly after 8:00 a.m. we know
00:04:20
this to be true because there are several people that spot the two of them together during the science fair at 8:45
00:04:28
a.m. Terry Horman is getting ready to leave the school she says she watched kirn walking towards his classroom and
00:04:35
then she leaves the school at 10:00 a.m. classes begin and at some point kirn's Home Room teacher this is Christina
00:04:42
Porter reports and marks him as absent now it wouldn't be until about 3:30 p.m. when kirn's father and stepmother go to
00:04:51
meet the school bus the bus driver informed them that Kiron had not boarded the bus after school the bus driver was
00:04:59
then asked to call the school and asked where Kiren was the bus driver was informed by the school secretary that
00:05:06
Kiren had not been in school since early that day and had been marked absent the
00:05:11
driver she reports to the secretary that she did not have Kiren and neither did the parents therefore he was missing
00:05:19
just before 400 p.m. the school secretary notified 911 of the boy being missing the 911 call center then
00:05:27
reported this information to the police and shortly afterwards the search for kirn Horman began so that's a quick
00:05:34
overview of what happened that day and if you want more information on that we have the Kiren Horman disappearance
00:05:41
episode and the search episode and sadly enough he went missing back in 2010 and
00:05:48
to this day Kiron has not been located and since then we have had a lot of suspicions cast on the parents of him
00:05:57
and his inner circle mhm people looking at them as suspicious and them casting suspicion upon one another yeah early in
00:06:05
this case we had a united front we had four parents that were trying to find this boy as the case would develop we
00:06:13
start seeing conflict between the parents yeah and as we saw during the search for Kiren you know that Unity
00:06:20
quickly fell apart now there's been plenty of opportunity and plenty of time that has gone by since he went missing
00:06:27
for these parents to talk about their thoughts of what happened to Kiron who could have been involved in this and a
00:06:34
chance to defend themselves we thought it was important for you to hear their thoughts and their feelings coming
00:06:40
straight from them let's listen to kirn's Mother Desiree as she describes the day that he went missing I got a
00:06:46
phone call from the school and uh she said is this Desiree Young and I said yes it is and she said you're listed as
00:06:54
the emergency notification for Kiren Horman and I said yeah he's my son what can I do do and she said I have to
00:07:01
notify you he's missing and first split second I thought it was a joke and I said what she said he's
00:07:12
missing I said I don't understand how could he be missing I said okay where is Terry and
00:07:20
Kane well Terry's here all right thank you and I hung up with her and immediately called
00:07:28
Terry and I um cussed a little bit said what the hell is going on and she said that they went to the
00:07:39
science fair and everything was fine and she waved goodbye to him and he went into his class or so she thought there
00:07:47
was something in my gut that just didn't feel good I had told her I'm coming up there and she said you are and she
00:07:54
seemed surprised at that which I thought was strange I said of course I am I'll be there in you know four four and a
00:08:01
half hours kirn's mother tearfully describing a phone call that she will never ever forget and then shortly
00:08:09
afterwards calling Terry kirn's stepmother who who knew beforehand you know she's known for a little bit of
00:08:16
time now maybe it's minutes maybe it's an hour an hour or so by this point that kirn's missing and desire says that
00:08:24
Terry seems surprised that she would be hopping in the car and going to their house immediately to figure out what's
00:08:31
going on right and it's a pretty long drive yeah it's going to take them uh what four or five hours to get there but
00:08:37
I mean this is your son if your son's missing of course you're jumping in the car and you're going to assist in the
00:08:44
search and you hope that at some point on that drive your cell phone rings and they've located your son and it's just a
00:08:50
big misunderstanding well she's claiming that it's suspicious that the Stepmom would say well why are you coming mhm I
00:08:58
again I think with a lot of these little tiny pieces of evidence that people are
00:09:02
going to speculate on it goes both ways right there's a part of you that it's like of course the mom would drive four
00:09:08
to 5 hours but maybe the stepmom's just thinking hey he's going to turn up she might have been thinking there is no
00:09:15
need to worry yourself there is no need to jump in the car and drive 4 hours we got this we'll find him now we also have
00:09:23
Tony Young who's married to kirn's mother now he's going to have an interesting perspective on things
00:09:28
because he works in law enforcement I was watching uh the investigation right from
00:09:36
the start I explained to each each person that now our lives are not private anymore that the investigators
00:09:44
are going to want to know uh very detailed information about our lives she instantly started to express some
00:09:53
displeasure at that and and uh not wanting feeling like she was persecuted and I thought that was kind of an
00:10:01
unusual uh reaction that early all right a couple things to unpack here first of
00:10:07
all yes your child is missing so you got to be an open book M right if you're going to help law enforcement it's also
00:10:15
better I mean we've talked about this look if your if your spouse was murdered chances are you're going to be
00:10:21
investigated right and you just have to be okay with that uh I understand people
00:10:26
still want in their privacy I understand that people maybe don't want to uh air some of their dirty laundry but you know
00:10:34
this is going to happen so I I think it was smart that he set everybody down and
00:10:38
said this is what's coming here's the storm that's coming and we if we band together it's going to be better yeah
00:10:45
and you can speed up the process too if if you can get everybody on board and everybody is willing to talk with the
00:10:51
police and the investigators you can speed up the process to where that circle is no longer around the immediate
00:10:58
family and the CLE circle gets larger and the potential for finding kirn increases the problem here is you hear
00:11:05
Tony kind of honing in on Terry's reaction to him saying hey now we got to be an open book almost you get the sense
00:11:12
that in not so many words he kind of seems to be saying you know what Terry seems to to think that they should just
00:11:20
be out there looking for Kiren they shouldn't be looking at me or looking at my husband or you or him they you know
00:11:26
we should not be the focus or the microscope here they should just be worried and busy out looking for kir and
00:11:33
obviously according to Tony she's very uncomfortable with that idea yeah and that maybe seems a little fishy we
00:11:41
covered another case the Missy Beaver case and her husband was very forthcoming Brandon beavers and he was
00:11:48
very Cooperative with the police and and his thoughts was like of course I'm going to be a suspect and of course you
00:11:55
have to rule me out but the the more I talk to you and the faster you you can rule me out the sooner that we can
00:12:02
actually get to the bottom of this now Terry she's the stepmother and her husband Kane kirn's father will have an
00:12:09
opportunity to defend his wife um she like the rest of us is extremely committed to to finding Kiren and and
00:12:18
she's working extremely hard with investigators as are the rest of us to to help bring him home but his story is
00:12:25
going to quickly change yeah very quickly because just 22 days after kirn disappears he's informed Kane is
00:12:33
informed by the detectives involved in the case that Terry may have tried to hire someone to have him killed yeah and
00:12:42
this is something that we could speculate a lot later into uh let's just try to get where they're at but again
00:12:48
because of this information coming to Cain coming to kirn's father he's going to kind of change the way he's looking
00:12:56
at the Stepmom oh yeah it's a 180 man he once getting this information he takes the daughter that he had with Terry and
00:13:04
he leaves the house and here's some of his thoughts on this new information I didn't believe it at first U it was
00:13:11
something that I couldn't even wrap my head around at the time there had been no indication in your marriage that
00:13:16
things were that bad or that she was upset with you no do you think she is capable of hurting a
00:13:24
child if you ask me before this situation my answer is know based on what I know now I don't know I think
00:13:32
anything is possible based on the way things have gone over the past few weeks you fear for your safety now Kan for
00:13:38
your daughter I fear for my daughter and so your message to her now is is what Kane fully cooperate with law
00:13:44
enforcement tell the truth there's some telling things in there Captain the first thing that kind of jumps off to me
00:13:51
is that you know when ask did you ever see anything like this coming you know talking about the the possible murder
00:13:57
For Hire mhm it it you know we have heard on many shows many times where people have had attempts against their
00:14:05
life and they've been asked the same question and you usually get one of two answers you get no I had no clue as what
00:14:13
what what Kane said or you have the other that was get yes well but no you no not yes you get this person yes had
00:14:21
shown some violence towards me in the past had threatened me or threatened to do this or that against me right but I
00:14:28
never thought they would do it so what what I'm saying that this is telling of is Cain doesn't seem to he doesn't seem
00:14:36
we don't get the idea that there's any threats that that at any point Terry threatened him or was violent towards
00:14:42
him uh this seems to really come out of left field for him right or that there was any signs at all that she was a
00:14:50
neglectful stepmother mhm the other thing here too when asked do you fear for your life or or your daughters life
00:14:59
M you know he says I fear for my daughter well what does that come from that comes from there was a situation
00:15:05
after Cain left the home and with his daughter once the two had been you know not legally separated but they had split
00:15:12
up by this point there had been on at least one occasion where Terry had gone to Kane's gym remember we said that the
00:15:21
gym that they had they had the little kitty section you know where you could you could drop your kid off they would
00:15:26
be entertained and and watched during your workout session there was at least one occasion if not more where Terry
00:15:34
went to that gym asking if Cain was there and if the daughter was there now she never said this to anybody but we
00:15:43
have the employees and and people that attended the gym that said that they believed that she would have taken the
00:15:51
daughter had had the daughter been there when she arrived on those occasions right but that's evidence of nothing
00:15:58
that's just their thoughts but but it's it's reason to understand his concern for his safety of
00:16:05
his daughter when you have you have her just randomly showing up at the gym and asking employees about the whereabouts
00:16:13
of her daughter here's a clip of that Terry was inquiring if King was here working out and then she asked if her
00:16:22
daughter was here in our kids club and the comment she made well if she had been here I would have taking her you
00:16:29
think she came here to the club with the intention of finding Kiara her daughter
00:16:33
and taking her that's certainly what it looked like and how about kirn's Mother's reaction to what the
00:16:40
Stepmother's been up to since she has split with her husband hearing that what do you
00:16:46
think she's got some guts I'll give her that so now's not a good time to be doing stuff like that but I guess I I
00:16:56
don't expect anything less right and that's some suspicious actions there by the Stepmom but again if you're not
00:17:03
involved and you know you're not involved in The Disappearance of your stepson then you would want to see your
00:17:09
child your other child you'd want to be a part of her life yeah and then we have
00:17:14
the question about the polygraph test we have the situation where Terry takes one
00:17:20
fails one and she's asked to take another test and potentially another test at that but at some point she
00:17:27
starts refusing to be a part of these polygraph tests yeah and kind of backing away from the whole investigation uh as
00:17:35
a whole and here's uh Tony the stepfather's thoughts on that when I heard that that made the decision in my
00:17:43
mind at the fork in the road we knew which road to go down we implore Terry Horman to fully
00:17:52
cooperate with the investigators to bring Kiren home so you can hear the parents pleading with the
00:17:59
Stepmom after the failed polygraphs hey just be honest M and work with the cops well and sometimes throughout this
00:18:07
process we have kirn's mother and stepfather who seem to be a little bit vague about what they believe may have
00:18:14
happened to Kiren and who could have been involved but when they're sat down and they are asked the direct question
00:18:22
regarding Terry the stepmother well it's obvious how they feel I Absol absolutely believe that
00:18:30
Terry horon is responsible for kiran's disappearance and I do too with with help did someone help her we don't have
00:18:39
any evidence that indicates that but we personally think that's the case do you think Terry Horman
00:18:51
planned to do something something with K oh yeah without a doubt which here they bring up
00:18:58
a great point because the tough thing about the whole stepmother theory is her timeline mhm and did she have enough
00:19:06
time she also was saw by a lot of eyewitnesses correct uh with her daughter out and about no signs of Kiren
00:19:16
so if she was involved was there somebody else involved mhm yeah and and you're exactly right Captain there are
00:19:24
breaks in her timeline there are points in her timeline of what went down she was doing that day where she is
00:19:31
unaccounted for but like we've talked about in so many cases was there enough time to do something well if you have
00:19:37
somebody else involved right if you have a drop off point or somebody that can take this kid from you or for you then
00:19:44
your timeline isn't so doesn't have to be so precise it you know we don't need a whole day to take Kiren and get rid of
00:19:53
him right and her going to these stores and and bringing her baby in the stores uh we have a couple of accounts with
00:20:00
with the eyewitnesses saying hey yeah I saw her but it was a little odd how much
00:20:05
she talked to me how much detail she got almost like maybe she's establishing an
00:20:10
alibi right right is is she in fact just running necessary errands or does she want people to know where she is that
00:20:18
day right okay so we have this atom bomb that goes off that Terry the stepmother
00:20:24
potentially try to hire somebody to kill K's father Kane yeah but then the other
00:20:30
shoe falls another bomb boom and what is this this a sex bomb a big fat stinky sweaty sex bomb
00:20:40
but now here's the thing Captain so we have Terry the Stepmom her phone is being monitored by the police by this
00:20:47
point in the investigation and so she's very careful about what she says when she's on her
00:20:54
phone however she's not clever enough to figure out that they're not just monitoring the phone calls they can see
00:21:02
all of the activity going on on her phone and when we say all we mean all all the whole thing well the thing here
00:21:10
is we have to introduce a guy named uh Michael cook okay so who is he he was a an old friend of can's it sounds like
00:21:19
they were friends you know maybe from high school or college yeah and then you know didn't have much interaction for
00:21:25
many years but at some point they are living close in proximity to one another and they rekindle their friendship well
00:21:32
after Kiron goes missing we have Michael cook who's going to help try to help the
00:21:37
family console them you know be a friend uh he actually was involved in helping to organize one of the first vigils that
00:21:45
was held for Kiren while they were still out searching for him well after after we have Cain and Terry split up after
00:21:54
Kane finds out hey your loving caring wife may have tried to to have somebody kill you right um and he says guess what
00:22:01
I'm taking my daughter and I'm out well we have Terry who's still living at the Horman home and at some point she thinks
00:22:08
you know what I'm going to start texting this friend of the family Michael cook and he's going to start texting her back
00:22:15
and the conversation starts as casual things questions about the investigation questions about is there any you know
00:22:22
leads anything good coming in helping to find Kiron well it very quickly turns to
00:22:30
um some very very inappropriate uh discussions between the two of them here's a clip of Michael talking about
00:22:36
the searches Kane and Terry live right up the street from me cook is an old high school friend of kan's they
00:22:43
recently reconnected in the first days of the hunt for Kiren cook joined the search yeah and then of course we've all
00:22:50
seen these and seemed to go out of his way to defend Terry when suspicions about her first emerged I would hope
00:22:57
that if if people had energy they would put it toward helping to find this missing boy as opposed to investing it
00:23:06
and speculating about whether the family did or didn't have something to do with
00:23:11
it and a lot of people weren't just put in speculation on the family a lot of people were put in speculation on Terry
00:23:18
yes so it's kind of weird that all now that she's uh showing me her tatas or her Turtle tatas um now I will be
00:23:26
defending her yeah and well and the thing is you know it just doesn't seem like you know we look at these things
00:23:34
from the outside and we have to wonder how we would behave and how uh we would handle dealing with something like this
00:23:41
in our lives well when it's not handled in a way that we agree with of course we
00:23:46
a automatically think well this person either just doesn't care just has no soul no heart or they're they're
00:23:54
involved in this thing in somehow well on a cheater doesn't make you a murderer but you know being a cheater does make
00:24:02
you a liar and I also think it makes you question somebody's character and they're going to ask uh kiran's mom
00:24:11
about these new allegations you roll your eyes yeah I'm sorry I guess to say it tactfully it goes to someone's
00:24:19
character if you're doing something like that I mean it's disgusting and now kirn's mother is going to be asked if
00:24:26
her and her husband K's stepfather if they feel guilty because of what was the result of what happened to Kiren because
00:24:35
he disappeared and now we learn that we have all this suspicious Behavior going on around the stepmother Kiren was in
00:24:43
her care to know that I was 4 and a half hours away when he needed me to protect
00:24:50
him that's what I feel guilty for um the fact that I had to work that day instead
00:24:57
of going to the science fair like I wanted to um that I feel guilty for too he wanted to come live with us uh he
00:25:06
expressed that on several occasions um and just several times he would just break down and just SOB
00:25:16
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offered by T-Mobile in Verizon May 2020 three all right cheers mates we're back all right so so far Captain we have
00:27:42
heard allegation after allegation just kind of stacking up against Terry Horman the stepmother who was the last person
00:27:51
as far as we know to see Kiren Harmon the morning that he disappeared now she is going to get a chance to react to
00:27:59
some of these allegations and let's hear her talk about that strange Facebook post of I'm going to hit the gym this
00:28:07
just days into the search for Kiren well that would be because the um the law enforcement uh told us to go to do we
00:28:17
told us to do things that we normally do so they want you to go grocery shopping
00:28:21
they want you to go to the gym they actually specifically told both Kan and I and he was with me that day when we
00:28:26
went but this statement makes a lot of sense to me I mean law enforcement will tell you hey you got to live some kind
00:28:32
of of a life mhm if you just focus only on searching uh you're going to drive yourself crazy right I don't think I'd
00:28:40
be able to uh do anything but search um but so so I get that point the the other weird thing that she throws in
00:28:49
there is oh yeah well I went to the gym that day and Kane was with me MH again I
00:28:55
don't think it's weird I mean some people as a stress reliever you know do yoga they go to the gym they got to go
00:29:01
running I don't think that is super odd um but you post it on Facebook right you
00:29:07
know stop being such a [ __ ] well and on more than one occasion she's going to claim that she was not allowed to be
00:29:15
involved in the search for Kiren which again makes sense to me um the investigators and the search and rescue
00:29:23
team should be the the experts are the ones that should be doing that um but furthermore maybe she doesn't need to be
00:29:30
involved in the search for Kiren because she herself as well as other family members are still under investigation
00:29:37
very early on yeah that's a very good point and you know law enforcement might have said hey go to the gym they
00:29:42
probably didn't tell her because they didn't think she was so stupid hey don't post it on Facebook the other weird
00:29:48
behavior is the sexting and so this is Terry's response to being caught sexting her husband's friend this was in
00:29:57
retaliation for something that he was doing that I found out about while this is happening and this particular person
00:30:04
was actually his friend and sent to the house so this was a setup I'm saying this person came to the house he was
00:30:13
kan's friend I did this deliberately because I was angry and getting back at him oh well two wrongs always make a
00:30:21
right Captain yeah I I don't know if that's how it works weird stuff here though cuz first of all she's like uh
00:30:30
constantly changing her story well you know see see first of all it was a setup right this guy came to the house and
00:30:39
they set me up uh she also says well but Kan was cheating too so so that's why and then she says well because he was
00:30:48
cheating I I I did it for Revenge you know what I mean it makes zero sense and you're constantly changing your story
00:30:57
just admit that you're a horrible person I had no interest in having this person
00:31:03
in my life this was something to screw with Cain because I was angry with him because he was doing the exact same
00:31:10
thing with somebody else yeah but also by this time we're not even in together anymore all right so first it's a setup
00:31:18
then it's revenge and then at the end of that little statement it was well but we
00:31:22
weren't even together right well you're legally married well and the other thing
00:31:27
here is you know throw all that out the window because you know Terry does such a good job of just cleaning this up very
00:31:36
quickly very nice and neat oh it's you know I did this because of this it didn't really matter we're not together
00:31:44
but the the thing here is the and then you have you know who else does a good job of cleaning this up Michael cook
00:31:51
because later Michael cook would tell the media you know what yeah I was sexting with her um I went over to her
00:31:58
home on one occasion to speak with her and I never had sex with her yeah okay well let me break this down for you all
00:32:05
right first of all Michael cook I read those text messages and we all know anybody that's followed this case for
00:32:13
some time okay everybody that's followed this case knows that Terry has been interviewed on more than one occasion
00:32:20
regarding these these text messages to and from Michael cook all right and those interviews they
00:32:28
dumb it down they have to dumb it down because the material in those text messages are so graphic that they cannot
00:32:36
say those things on the radio or on TV or in the newspaper right luckily for us we're just in a garage and we can say
00:32:44
whatever we want as as far as it pertains to these cases the thing here is Michael cook I'm sorry man I'm never
00:32:52
going to believe you that you didn't have sex with Terry Horman for several reasons one um these these things got so
00:33:01
explicit that there's no way you went over there just to talk with the person because Guess what at some point in
00:33:08
these text messages you had two options bro you could have said you could have said this either I'm going to go over
00:33:14
there and give her what she's begging for or I'm going to remove myself from this horrible situation that somehow I
00:33:22
I've ended up in and been a part of for uh you know they were texting for days wasn't like yeah but it is possible that
00:33:29
he just wanted some you know booby pics you know it's possible yeah but you don't have to go to her home to receive
00:33:37
those she had already sent those to you before you went to her home and the other thing buddy here's the thing
00:33:43
according to the text messages and according to Terry's messages that she sent to you um not only did you go to
00:33:51
her home but she went to your home on one occasion who yeah so let's let's not pretend like this thing only happened
00:33:58
once and we just sat around talking and and hoping for the best no I think it went down exactly how everybody's
00:34:06
thinking that it went down and why look when well the other thing too is Michael
00:34:11
had this weird fetish with turtles so not true but the thing here is even after she's sending pictures of
00:34:19
herself he's asking for more pictures and as the captain pointed out maybe he's just into pictures however at more
00:34:27
than one occasion during these text message exchanges they both admit to having been masturbating during the
00:34:35
sexting situation yeah yeah and then at some point she says hey I'm glad that we I
00:34:43
she says look did she give don't tell any don't tell anybody that I came over to your house last night because I told
00:34:50
my attorney and I told my friend Deee that I just had to go out for a drive because I was stressed and I'd been
00:34:56
locked up in the house all day right which is another piece of evidence that she will lie to anybody she'll lie to
00:35:02
her her own lawyer yeah it's a definitely u a detail of your character and the other issue too the other
00:35:11
problem with this case is that you have two adults uh we have Terry for certain and we have Michael cook by this point
00:35:21
that that is yes just speculation on my behalf but whether or not had sex together we have we have two adults in
00:35:30
in the Inner Circle of a situation of a missing child and they're behaving like teenagers they're behaving like
00:35:37
teenagers they're not assisting they're not doing anything productive as far as I'm concerned in helping the family or
00:35:44
helping kirn they're running around and in in playing these games with each other and hiding it from everybody else
00:35:51
well and the weird thing here too is I mean like we said before kirn's father left left kirn's mother why she was
00:35:58
pregnant because he has having an affair with the turtle mhm Terry and the problem here is that now she's saying
00:36:08
that well Kane's doing the same thing and this might have been going on before Kiren went missing but then it starts to
00:36:16
make you want uh wonder about motive you know if if the kids out of the picture what happens to the
00:36:24
relationship right mhm I think we throw a lot of shade on her but if Kane is doing the same thing then he's equally a
00:36:33
giant bag of flaming do you know but that's a road that I don't even care to go down right but why do we do it with
00:36:39
her and not him because of this because of this exact fact we have in her own words her saying I lied to my best
00:36:46
friend and to my attorney two people that are supposed to have her best interest involved in what's going on in
00:36:53
her world and she's admittingly lying to them so how can I put any weight on her
00:37:01
being the only one saying that Kane well he was doing the same thing so I did it
00:37:06
too right but we have evidence that he's done this before so there there's some weight there I I feel I feel you there
00:37:14
you bring up a good point the problem I have is I have a big problem believing anything that Terry says and while we're
00:37:21
you know while we're in the business of throwing shade at people I think that we
00:37:24
need to throw some shade on Michael cook um because here's the thing this is his
00:37:29
own words his own words when asked why that that the investigation is focusing in on Terry or why the public seems to
00:37:39
be swarming around her like vultures thinking that she's involved in kirn's disappearance somehow his own words are
00:37:47
I wish that anybody that has energy would focus in and put their efforts towards trying to find Kiron uh guess
00:37:56
what Michael how much energy did you waste on those visits with Terry how much energy did you waste texting and
00:38:03
sexting back and forth with her you should have focused your efforts on looking for Kiren as well I think it's
00:38:09
very obvious where I stand as far as how I you know my belief on whether Terry is
00:38:14
a somewhat honest person or or you know not honest at all right I I can't it's hard for me to believe anything she says
00:38:23
and this is a good point this is a good time for her to address the situation regarding the polygraph test so the the
00:38:31
first one was approximately an hour long and reading the results took about 3 hours to do it um I'm very hard of
00:38:38
hearing virtually deaf in my left ear so I have to look at people when I talk to
00:38:41
them to understand what they're saying he was behind me when he was doing the first
00:38:46
polygraph um so I took me a little bit of time to process what he was saying to respond I was gone for the 3 hours while
00:38:54
he put it together came back back and he just I don't even know what was up on the screen but he said you failed and I
00:39:00
like how can I possibly failed I told the truth and then they came in um two of the Bobby O'Donald lead investigator
00:39:07
another guy named will he's the FBI guy he was part of the group and uh were talking to me about it and after
00:39:16
discussion of I I was upset went back and I had at that time uh called cane and I told him I'm just done cooperating
00:39:24
I have had it I cannot believe that they're focused on me they're not focusing where they need to be and they
00:39:30
took me home I was at home the uh the lead investigator of FBI his name is Lee gossam he called me over to the school
00:39:38
or the fire station and asked that we have a discussion and um about saying that they
00:39:45
needed my help to continue on because I know Kiren as well as I do excuse me I agreed that I would it's just I just
00:39:52
said I'm just angry because of all this is going on he said well if had you had any other
00:39:57
um reaction I would have thought that you were guilty because I don't feel that way about
00:40:03
you okay all right yeah she wants to make sure that she includes in there that one of the investigators says to
00:40:11
her that he doesn't feel that she's guilty of anything yeah and we have no way of knowing if he said that or not
00:40:18
right uh the other thing that they're going to bring up is the fact that she has hearing problems and so that could
00:40:25
affect the PO gra which could explain why she failed the test it's it's heavy enough I have to see the context of the
00:40:34
person what they're saying their facial expression it helps a lot yeah I was if I'm sitting this way and I'm doing it
00:40:39
he's right here at a table so I can hear out of this year is just it makes it much more difficult I told him I
00:40:46
couldn't hear then he made it so that I was scooted over enough that I could hear more out of my right ear yeah and
00:40:52
this investigation is going to take another twist like I said before they were United as four you know the the
00:41:00
Stepmom the Father the stepdad and the mother they were United but quickly it turns into well we think Terry is
00:41:09
possibly lying about some stuff and not cooperating as much as she should then what's going to happen is that this the
00:41:17
allegations come out that she hired the landscaper or the gardener to kill her husband and once this comes out he is
00:41:25
going to then have to file for uh a divorce when C files for that divorce uh he is going to submit all this stuff
00:41:33
allegations against her with drinking and God knows what else but I think some of that it's so you know again uh this
00:41:44
guy cheated on his pregnant wife I don't know how much we can believe but even if
00:41:49
he was making up stories I think he was doing so to protect his daughter and I can commend him for that well one big
00:41:56
part of the battle of this whole divorce is going to be custody of the child of of the daughter that Cain and Terry had
00:42:05
together right you know Cain is not just saying hey I'm separating from my wife he's saying no I'm separating from my
00:42:11
wife from Terry and I'm taking our daughter and she's separating from her as well right and so for this to happen
00:42:19
he's not only going to have to prove reasons why they should be divorced and and why they shouldn't be together but
00:42:25
he's going to have to prove reasons why she is not fit to be uh to to have their
00:42:31
daughter in her care again I commend him because if you think that she had anything to do with The Disappearance of
00:42:37
your son you do not want to take that chance now what what comes out in the public is that the mother of kirn is
00:42:44
going to hear all this information and go wait what the heck yeah why didn't we know about this earlier right when our
00:42:50
kid went missing you should have been talking about this and that's going to sever their relationship as well and
00:42:55
here is kirn's mom talking about that good morning this is the first time that you are speaking out about Kiren without
00:43:03
um your ex-husband Caine up until now you two have maintained a united front so what has
00:43:10
changed well we're we're still a united front in the goal that we want Kiren home and and uh we want answers that
00:43:20
hasn't changed um I uh I personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me in kan's choices and
00:43:33
his behavior and um I just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making well well some
00:43:42
of that has to do with these um court documents that uh you've seen where he talks about his uh wife Terry being
00:43:49
visibly uh impaired from alcohol several times a week putting her kids at risk he
00:43:54
calls her emotionally Disturbed yet he never shared any of his concerns with you is that
00:44:01
correct that's correct we learned of all of this information after the fact and from the media he had several
00:44:08
opportunities to let Tony and I know what was going on in the house and he did not um he had several opportunities
00:44:17
to make the right choice and either let me know or remove Kiren from the house I
00:44:22
would have removed Kiren from the house had I have known what was going on did you see any signs ever um Desiree that
00:44:29
that Terry was uh dealing with alcohol abuse or that she was as as uh Cain put it emotionally
00:44:36
disturbed yeah I did not see any evidence of of alcohol abuse um in fact I didn't know about the DUI until after
00:44:46
Kiren went missing um but as far as a personality disorder I did uh for years I was a aware that she had some
00:44:58
issues with pathological lying things of that nature but um just mostly from my interactions with her uh I don't I
00:45:07
didn't see you know as much as Kane did if you had any concerns why didn't you at any time or did you try to get your
00:45:15
son Kiren out of that home oh yes I did starting uh a year prior to his him going missing uh I
00:45:25
tried to get custody of him and what would happen uh Kane told me it was not an option on several occasions and uh it
00:45:34
was a point of contention with us he was uh exhibiting some problems in school and he was expressing a lot of um
00:45:44
sadness uh and upset at the situation and Kiron on many occasions told me he wanted to come live with me and on a
00:45:52
couple of different occasions Terry had called me specifically so that I could talk to Kiren because he was so upset
00:46:00
and Terry personally wanted me to take Kiren and then on Friday the police showed you some emails that Terry had
00:46:08
sent to to friends of hers describing her marriage to Cain and her feelings about your son I know you can't reveal
00:46:15
the the specifics because of the investigation but generally what did they say it's very clear from
00:46:23
Terry's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kiren and that a lot she blamed a lot of the marital
00:46:37
problems between Cain and herself on Kiren that it was a huge point of contention in their
00:46:45
marriage and uh she had expressed in great detail her hatred for Kiren I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that
00:46:57
not only is she capable of hurting Kiren that it's clear that she could have hurt
00:47:02
him in the worst possible way do you still hold out hope that your son is alive I will until the day I
00:47:13
die there's been a lot of talk about these emails on the internet a lot of people chiming in with their thoughts
00:47:21
and opinions about this I've heard and read some people unfortunately that say you know as far as these emails go we've
00:47:29
not been able to see them they're they're you know they're not been released to the public so all we can go
00:47:36
off of is Desiree kirn's mom saying that the stepmother hated Kiren this is what
00:47:42
I see in the emails and there's also been speculation that there were hundreds and hundreds of emails that
00:47:49
were of this nature of her speaking Illy of her marriage and of her stepson and even saying that her stepson was adding
00:47:59
to the turmoil in their marriage in her marriage my comments to those people that have posted that is two things
00:48:07
you're exactly right we have not seen we have not seen these they've not been made public and yes all we have is what
00:48:15
she is stating that she was shown because she was shown these by the investigators because they wanted to get
00:48:22
her opinion you you know what I believe I believe that some of those emails were
00:48:27
her saying bad things about her stepson were things Terry saying bad things about Kiren bad things about her
00:48:35
marriage now if if Desiree had to pour over hundreds of emails and I and I'm guessing with the activity that I've
00:48:43
seen uh made public regarding Terry's computer uh activity and how active she was on her phone yeah I'm guessing that
00:48:52
there were probably hundreds of emails my guess here would be that probably a very few of them actually pertain to her
00:49:00
saying that she hated Kiron and that she had a bad marriage because of him um I do not doubt Desiree I do not doubt that
00:49:09
she is coming forward with saying information that is true that is factual the problem is we have people taking in
00:49:16
this information watching these interviews and then later saying well there were hundreds and hundreds of
00:49:22
emails of her that saying she hated Kiren all we have is the Stepmom to go no you're jumping to conclusions there
00:49:29
right you're jumping to conclusions there we've not seen evidence so far in this case of a situation where Desiree
00:49:37
is lying about anything I I take her I take her for her word yeah and as far as we know I mean like the kid goes missing
00:49:47
we're going to start diving into these individuals past that's how we know about how uh Kane and Terry got together
00:49:54
was during a pregnancy mhm that's horrible the other thing about it too is that uh you know like we
00:50:01
said we have evidence that Terry has lied about stuff but also just the fact that she's willing to cheat I think
00:50:08
that's evidence that she's a selfish individual and if you're a selfish individual then maybe you don't want to
00:50:15
be taken care of um a son that's not biologically yours right so and again uh as they dove into these people's lives
00:50:24
uh there's really nothing that we can discuss as far as Desiree obviously by this point we have a situation where the
00:50:31
relationship is has been severed between the biological mother and biological father of Kiren and they're no longer
00:50:39
like the captain keeps referring to as a uni unified front you know now we have we have two against one and two against
00:50:47
another one and for the first time after what three years we have we have Cain the
00:50:54
biological father and Desiree the biological mother who have the opportunity to sit down and discuss some
00:51:00
of their differences I don't blame Caine for kirn's disappearance I want to make
00:51:06
that very clear however the things that I have a hard time with is the fact that I feel like
00:51:14
things were happening in the year prior to Kiron going missing that I was bringing attention to and I don't know
00:51:23
if you were busy with your life or what was going on but it was just ignored and I feel like in that we
00:51:32
failed kir we didn't protect him that's that's interesting a lot of the dialogue was more between you and
00:51:39
Terry than you and I she made deliberate attempts to put herself in the middle of
00:51:44
the communication so your emails I never saw your emails her and I never spoke about them yeah and this is what I have
00:51:50
a problem with with Kane is he does the same thing that Terry does he puts the blame onto other people he deflects all
00:51:57
the blame instead of just saying hey um you know yeah I messed up right uh but he's going to be asked did he miss
00:52:05
anything and then he's going to say yes he did but again I think it's put in the
00:52:11
blame onto somebody else I I think absolutely I did I think at the time the economy was was going a really bad
00:52:17
direction for all of us I was focused on work I was focused on all of a sudden we
00:52:22
had a daughter A New Daughter coming that wasn't expected we had a of things that were happening in life and I spent
00:52:27
a lot of my time focused on my kids and focused on my job and I didn't focus on her and that I definitely should have
00:52:32
spent more time but I've also in hindsight in all the discussions I have with other people most normal people
00:52:38
aren't investigating their spouse on a day-to-day basis yeah but if you're awesome and you listen to True Crime
00:52:45
garage you are investigating your spouse on a day-to-day basis there if you you have a GPS tracker on their car you have
00:52:55
cameras in the house that they don't know about you have maybe a GPS that uh you have on the person's body you know I
00:53:03
don't know where you're going to put it use your imagination well and another thing that kirn's parents disagreed on
00:53:10
was the search of Kiren horman's home in property Kane's home in property MH now
00:53:18
the deal is that police said hey why don't you let us come out there and dig up your yard and we'll look for more
00:53:25
evidence we'll look for Kiron we have Cain who says no I don't want to do that and we have Desiree kiran's mom who says
00:53:34
that could have been beneficial to this whole investigation and here is Kane's explanation of that I have an open
00:53:41
invitation with law enforcement and the search and rescue teams the certified search and rescue teams to search my
00:53:47
property any day anytime when I was called I said no to the private search but I immediately said and I will
00:53:53
continue to say right now anytime anytime the Sheriff's Office and the search and rescue teams want to come
00:53:59
with their dogs it's already my property I'll qualify with my property's been searched more than the school has
00:54:05
probably and my invitation is open always open so I think what happened here was he wasn't on the property at
00:54:11
the time that they wanted to do the search and so he said no and I think one of the reasons that he did that is uh I
00:54:19
don't think this guy has a lot of great morals and I think he was also afraid of
00:54:24
what else they'd uncover well I'd be curious too if they actually at any time dug up the yard because I I I've I take
00:54:33
Desiree's side on this I believe that yes there are gaps in Terry horman's timeline that day and disposing of
00:54:44
something at home in her own property would have she would have had time to do that that would have been been a
00:54:51
convenient place for her to do such things I got to believe though at this at the same time you know there's
00:54:58
everybody has you know you got your yard I got my yard there's obvious parts of my yard if I dug something up on a
00:55:06
Friday or buried something on a Friday that Friday night Saturday Sunday Monday it's going to be very obvious that
00:55:13
that's dis Disturbed ground and this next clip is going to be uh desire's words to whoever might be responsible
00:55:21
for The Disappearance of Kiren to the person or s that have Kiren I miss my son so much that I can't
00:55:30
breathe at times my heart aches every second of every day and I am afraid that I can't
00:55:37
live without him I know that this situation has turned out much bigger than anyone could
00:55:44
have ever imagined please do the right thing here and help us find him think about Kiren
00:55:52
he needs me as well there are so many things he hasn't gotten to do yet please let him go just
00:56:01
take him to a remote pay phone and tell him to call 911 and then we can come and
00:56:07
get him millions of people have seen his photo yeah do you wonder why someone hasn't said something yet I do I do
00:56:17
wonder that every day I pray for them to come forward and have the strength to to
00:56:25
do what's right for Kiren tomorrow we will release part four of the Kiren Harmon case titled the
00:56:41
suspect until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]
00:57:11
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