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[Music] [Applause] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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bonus show called off the record and that is enough of the business and this evening we will be having a discussion
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with a longtime friend of the show Melissa Lee from the victimology podcast so everybody gather round
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grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true cry [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]
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hello Melissa thank you for joining us in the garage this week how are you doing hey it's great to be here thanks
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for having me so you and I have had so many off-the-record conversations about the Delphi case and yes it's got
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national attention but it's something that is really always on my mind and I know you're always thinking about it too
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and both of us have a lot of thoughts and opinions which is just a natural fit because there's not a ton of information
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out there I thought it would be interesting if you could join me in the garage and we could talk about some of
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our thoughts and opinions regarding the unsolved double homicide case of Abigail
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Williams and Liberty German sounds good the way this conversation came about was
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you reached out to me and you said hey Nick are you listening to down the hill because I'm listening to it and it's
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fascinating and you and I have had plenty of Delphi conversations before this and I said to you yeah I said to
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you well that's weird I'm not listening to down the hill I've been listening to scene of the crime but they're talking
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Delphi as well and so what that inspired for me and for you is you then went to listen to scene of the crime and I
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listen to down the hill so now we're all caught up and here we are going to have
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a discussion of reading between the lines of what information has been released and discussing what we think
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could be going on here with the investigation itself and with what happened on that fateful day in February
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of 2017 so I don't know about you but one of the like main issues I have with this case is there's not much
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information out there so when we were given these little tidbits and both of the podcasts I felt like it was just
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huge finding yeah and it's really been a lot of trying to read between the lines
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and these two podcasts had more information than others have true crime garage has covered Delphi at least six
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episodes and countless off the record episodes but it was interesting to get the real
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nuts and bolts of the case from these two different podcasts so let's just dive right in here with with some of the
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thoughts that we wanted to discuss the first being the investigators they interviewed said that the video and the
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audio haunts him because of the reaction of one of the girls and we could take that a million different ways but I did
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want to get either what-what opinions do you have of that or what questions does
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that raise for you so one of my main thought processes with this was that the investigator you know when he was
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talking about it he had said he had watched the video multiple times and it always bothers him the reaction of the
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one girl's face as she's watching what's happening to her friend so in my brain I
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was thinking okay we know this whole time it's been Libby's cellphone who was or who's been recording or who was
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recording at the time and so my thought process was okay if he's saying he's watching the face of one of the girls
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while the other gorilla is you know something's quote-unquote happening to her she's watching she's watching what's
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happening then I would believe that they are referring to Libby watching what's happening to Abby here because if it was
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Libby's cellphone we know it was in lady's possession at the time I feel like that is the most plausible
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explanation is that it was Libby who is watching what's happening to Abby yeah so we're gonna have a difference of
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opinion here just based off and I can only go off of stuff that I've heard and seen and read and and you can only go
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off of what you've seen a read I have a different a different opinion on this because what I've and I'm trying to
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think of the investigator that you're talking about but I do recall seeing an investigator interviewed and saying yeah
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the video the audio haunts me and I didn't think that it was as specific as because of seeing the one girl's face
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I'm not questioning that that you didn't find that somewhere I just I didn't have
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the same experience what I was able to find was that three of the family members are saying that they were
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allowed to watch the video and that was Becky Mike and Anna watched the video and here's where you got to take it a
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step further did they see the entire video or were they only showed a portion of it what law enforcement was willing
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to show them and their statements were that there was very little on the video that they saw that was of use to
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identifying the the suspect or even really knowing what was going on with the girls at at the time of the video
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that what they're seeing what they did say that they saw or heard on the video was typical Girl Talk talking about the
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man on the bridge whispering between the two and at some point Libby said something about a path
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ending and this is where I take it a bit a step further try to fill in the blanks
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and then wonder if the order of this is pretty concise as to what they witnessed
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on the video because you can almost see this playing out in your mind where we have typical girl talk maybe the video
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actually started before they witnessed the man on the bridge then all of a sudden hey there's somebody on the
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bridge he's alone why is he walking this fast towards us and then whispering between the girl between the two as the
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perpetrator gets closer and as their fear heightens and then at some point we have this situation of Libby says
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something about the path ending and I think Anna's words were something to the effect of well where do we go now the
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path is ending this almost sounds to me like by this point he's already got them
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the bridge guys already got them somewhat under his control that he's directing them around and that's where I
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wonder if in fact there was some video at this point and that's what your investigators talking about saying
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one of the girls faces at this point her reaction to what's going on because you
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also wonder like if if the path does run out and now not only does he have control of us but he's taking us off the
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path doesn't it seem like the situation's getting a little dire getting worse like not only does he is
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he threatening us and controlling our movements but he's now taking us into the woods into a place where we really
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don't want to go with this guy well now I've also heard rumors about either the video going out or the audio
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going out at some point I don't know have you heard those rumors at all I've definitely seen the rumor of the video
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going out where there is additional audio that can be heard but the the phone that was capturing the video may
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have been concealed at some point and that's really interesting because I feel like I'm a 50/50 split to whether the
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perpetrator knew of the phone at all of the existence of the phone at all because one thing we do know is that the
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phone was found somewhere near the crime scene we do not they don't tell us exactly where it was found but we do
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know that it was in fact found so that leads me to believe one of two things occurred for the bridge guy either he
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never detected Libbie cell phone never she was able to conceal it and he never came across it or - he may have tried to
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destroy it but was unsuccessful or thought he had successfully destroyed it you know smashed the phone and then left
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but there was still there's the technology was still inside the phone and able to show us this video and give
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us this audio one thing I do question though is if he did detect the phone if he did find the phone it's interesting
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to me the sophistication that goes into the thought of to not take it with him especially if he may have thought that
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there was something incriminating on the phone it shows that he has some general understanding of that type of
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technology meaning had he taken her phone with him they may have been able to track him in some form using her
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phone I know that the Find My Phone app was not working on Libby's phone at the time it does shows some type of
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sophistication to me the heat he may have chose not to take the phone with him now I had had a thought that so
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from what I have heard as far as the crime scene which I know we'll get into in a little bit that it was not a or not
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an organized crime scene in the fact - it makes me think as well that her shoe was found what a couple feet away from
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where their bodies would eventually be discovered I had always thought that the phone had fallen at some point and he
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didn't even necessarily know it was there or because I had had that thought - why not try to dispose of the phone
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why not throw it into the creek that they were near you know why not try to completely get rid of it if it did have
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this evidence of him committing these crimes on it you know that kind of goes along with the the theory that I'm now
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in belief of that I actually think that at some point they did try to run from him that they tried to flee him and so
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the information I found was that Libby one of her shoes was on the bridge on the moanin High Bridge side of the creek
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and their bodies were found on the other side of the creek so I'm wondering now if as they're approaching this creek
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area or as they're making their way down the hill if they tried to run toward the
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creek and cross the creek to get away from him Libby losing her shoe in the process or did the bridge guy then place
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it there or throw it there discard of it therefore for whatever reason later but
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then that's interesting what you just brought up it could be just as simple as Libby dropped the phone to either
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abandon it to to be able to run away faster or drop the on accident or dropped it to conceal it
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so he wouldn't know that she filmed him I do think there's more on the video and
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audio that police are revealing partially also because we didn't even know it was a video until last year like
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they didn't release that until 2019 April literally a year ago yeah so a couple things that I believe and again
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this is just my opinion in regards to the video in the audio I do think that there is more that was recorded there
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was more that was recorded I think that probably what we have here is whatever else they have in addition to what
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they've released is of no benefit to the public to the victims or to the investigation meaning I don't think that
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we have much more of the offender of the bridge guy I think there's no reason for
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me to believe that we are not seeing the best image that they have a bridge guy what would be the benefit to their
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investigation to withhold a better image of him from the public when you've clearly told us time and time again for
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three years that you need the public's assistance so that just doesn't ring true to me that there would be
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additional better images of the bridge guy I think that there's probably some additional images of the bridge guy but
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the one that we're seeing is the best one that they are able to provide to us and then in regards to the audio I think
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that there's definitely more audio one thing that Anna did say was you know gave us a brief description of the audio
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she could make out again we don't know that that law enforcement showed the family every everything that they had we
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just don't know that the family seems to think that they saw everything that law
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enforcement we just don't know in regards to the audio the statements I saw from from the family was that there
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was much more audio than there was video so that goes back to the idea that the phone was concealed or dropped at some
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point and from from her from filming more video but then on top of you have additional audio I think that
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what you probably have is a lot of talk between the two victims which doesn't help the public identify the bridge guy
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so there's no need to release any of that and then on top of that if you do have additional audio from the bridge
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guy it may be to a point where he is initiating certain threats that may be even detailed threats and we know that
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they've withheld a bunch of information the cause of death they've withheld if if they were
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sexually assaulted how he gained control of them there could be details inside those threats that would be would be bad
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for the investigation because they're withholding that other information right and just to bounce off of that so the
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audio that the police did eventually release where it says guys down the hill I've actually seen quite a few people
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like try to analyze that audio and I think I actually sent you a copy of it as well that someone tried to clear it
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up so it's very apparent while looking at this from a sound point of view like looking at it underneath audio editing
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equipment you can see a definite cut in the two sections my guess is there's more of the offender in the audio and I
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agree as well that it's probably something not that should not be shared with the public at least right now as
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far as what happened with the crime whether or not he described what he did to the girls or went into great detail
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or you know something but I do think I just my guts telling me there's more on the audio and video than what they're
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they're sharing ultimately so some information real quick that I have here in my notes Ari I'm going through my
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notes as we go through this Libby's cell phone was they did a factory reset ten days before the murder
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this was because the phone was all buggered up with a whole bunch of unnecessary data and probably games and
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things like that that's why they were not able to use the Find My Phone app because a lot of the
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apps that were on her phone had not been loaded back on to the phone after this factory reset because that's what her
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grandmother Becky would have used to track her now right so then take that a step further what we have here is the
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phone was recovered at the scene we don't know where exactly but it's stated as found close to the scene
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law enforcement has confirmed that they have more audio and video and all of the
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audio they have is from the video that Libby filmed meaning there there's there's not a separate recording that's
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audio only and their statement here from my notes Libby filmed using the standard
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video recording camera feature on her iPhone now I have a question that picture of a be on the bridge that was
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taken that day right yes yeah so that definitely snapchat so correct yeah I mean well and if that's the case then
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that it was record I mean and obviously you know anyone who has a phone we know we can just press the button and it
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records the whole time that's interesting so it was table lesson B who stated publicly that the crime is not on the
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recording and I believe that was his exact words the crime is not on the recording again I have to believe that
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means the double homicide itself with the snapchat thing first of all you're talking to the wrong guy I've never used
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I don't know I don't even I barely even know what it is to be honest with you what I have here is interesting because
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the we do know what time that that snapchat went out so the timing of that is 207 p.m. that the snapchat goes out
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the interesting thing there is there's no bridge guy behind a bee at that time we know based off of
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sunlight and shadows and other information that the bridge guy is approaching them between 220 and 230
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p.m. so shortly after that snapchat minutes after that snapchat we now have bridge guy in pursuit of the two girls
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and what's fascinating and terrifying to me too is I believe that either if they are
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already recording the video or if they were inspired to then record the video there's somebody else on the bridge
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which seems haunting on its own he's by himself again haunting why is he walking
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so fast why is he approaching us so fast and the terrifying thing for these two girls
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again ages 14 and 13 years old they can clearly see a grown man approaching them
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very quickly on this rickety old bridge you're now left with two options you're either going to be if you let him keep
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approaching you you're either going to be in close quarters with this individual that you're already kind of
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put off of or your other option is to have to cross him on that bridge just that alone you're kind of you're really
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boxed into a corner if you're Lybian a be here and that that thought there just terrifies me and I think that that that
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thought alone explains the inspiration for for the for filming him be if you were already filming something else or
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if you were inspired to do so because of the sight of him now what we also can piece together is that very likely Libby
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who's recording is already off of the bridge she's on that what I refer to as the dead end side of the bridge
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she's already off of the bridge and you can see that she at one point is filming
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a B who's making her way toward the dead inside and then at some point they become aware of the bridge guy and then
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what happens after that we don't know we can piece together to the some point he's able to take control of
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the girls in attempt I believe he was successful moving them directing them where he wanted them to go for for a
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portion of time that he was successful with that I think at some point it it may have got away from him
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so something I'm thinking I don't remember off the top of my head which podcast it was that mentioned this but
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they had made a comment that it was common for a bee to take pictures of random people out in the public
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you know secretively of course and like send it to people and like oh that's your boyfriend
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joking right which is a total teenage girl thing to do speaking as once being a teenage girl so
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it almost makes me wonder if that's what the ultimate like cause of the videoing
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was and we know that the video is that snapchat thing is from that day one because it was posted that day but on
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top of that Abby that was her first time crossing the bridge to my knowledge from
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everything I've heard that that was the first time she crossed the bridge so it's almost like we have we have her her
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best friend memorializing that event with that snapchat post and then we have okay a whole different reason a whole
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different action now we got bridge guy we got video of bridge guy which we know was recorded using the standard video
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recording camera feature on her iPhone the other interesting thing too we talked about the timing of everything
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that the bridge guy was on the bridge between 220 and 230 roughly the spot where he is recorded is stated by and I
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can't recall him going off a memory here if he's the former prosecutor or current
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prosecutor I'm guessing he's the former robber Ives he says the image of the bridge guy that
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we have seen publicly was recorded at a great distance and based off of the markings on the bridge we're able to
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determine that the suspect at that point is approximately 60 feet from the end of the bridge and that bridge from
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what I've seen the locals say takes about six minutes to cross this goes back to a theory that that I threw out
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there when we covered it on true-crime garage and I'm still of this theory that he was approaching them and he was
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approaching them rather quickly that he was moving across that bridge at a faster than normal rate and that might
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have been something that tipped them off why would he go that fast that it almost
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feels like to me that the two knew or were suspicious of his movements believing at some point he's either
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going to approach us or he might be after us [Music] if there is something interfering with
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better help calm slash garage [Music] mentioning robber Ives he is the one that said that several things about the
00:27:09
crime scene were odd and I found this interesting and I do know a little bit of the production between the two
00:27:17
podcast scene of the crime was was the production was completed on that before down the hill was completed they both
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came out roughly about the same time but what I found interesting was the contrast between the two within that of
00:27:33
Robert Ives the statements where on seeing the crime he says there were several things about the crime scene
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that were odd and it's almost like he it's almost like loose lips sink ships once the toothpaste is out of the tube
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you can't put it back in but he tries to walk it back a little bit like you know
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there there there are always odd things about a murder scene it felt a little telling like no maybe that maybe this
00:28:03
crime scene has things about it that are more strange than the typical crime scene and then later on down the hill
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he's now referring to these rather than odd things as signatures and it's almost
00:28:19
like he was schooled to start using the word signature or if it maybe it was a theatrics thing I don't know but I
00:28:28
cannot shake either of those statements I cannot get them out of my head I cannot quit circling round and round
00:28:36
about what they could mean and you and I touched upon that a little bit in our conversations I don't know take me into
00:28:43
your thoughts when you hear somebody that close to the case say a statement like that I can totally agree with that
00:28:51
the odd crime scene comment has stuck with me this entire time since it was said because you know obviously your
00:28:58
mind starts racing like okay what in the heck could that mean and you know nope no crime scene
00:29:04
is a good crime scene you know like it's to say that it's odd really makes me think that
00:29:12
so in also to the first responders they had made a comment to in the podcast I think it was down the hill that they all
00:29:22
had to decompress that evening so when I hear it was an odd crime scene they had
00:29:28
to decompress that evening which of course you know the murder of two children that is not an easy thing to
00:29:34
deal with as a first responder or investigator that is not a good thing that never sits well but for to make a
00:29:44
point to say that almost all of the people involved all of the first responders involved had to decompress
00:29:50
that evening because that was the lake like severe Ness of the crimes the trouble exactly exactly
00:29:57
which I mean you know we hear that first responders need to decompress when they
00:30:02
see some really messed up things which rightfully so then the mentioning of the signatures so the second I heard that I
00:30:13
was like okay that's really interesting to hear that there are signatures involved in the case and to know about
00:30:22
all the different rumors that are circulating around it immediately made me think that there might be some value
00:30:28
to some of those rumors you know I mean there were people there at the crime scene the person who found them was a
00:30:36
family member of Libby's I believe for them to say their signatures I know you and I have kind of discussed this what
00:30:43
the difference between a signature and an mo is right so it's it's just like hmm I mean should we go into the rumors
00:30:53
or well yeah I think we should because part of this that I'm hoping to achieve with our discussion here today is some
00:31:02
of the old rumors that were circling around they've made their way back again and I think it's because of the two
00:31:10
podcast which is strange to me because they were so complete and concise about the information that they were putting
00:31:18
but again it's always gonna go back to the law enforcement has not released much information so then that that only
00:31:25
inspires the rumor mill but I think that some of the some of the rumors are one they're just negative toward the victims
00:31:34
negative toward the families and they hold no truth at all so not only am i hoping that our discussion has some some
00:31:43
interesting opinions and some interesting takes and theories on what might have actually happened but also to
00:31:49
to squash some of those rumors that are showing their ugly face again so I think
00:31:55
the other interesting thing here to keep in mind and correct me if I'm wrong Melissa but Robert Ives was pressed
00:32:04
they're like what do you mean by signatures can you tell us what they were and he's of course he's like no I
00:32:09
cannot tell you what they were I believe he was pressed to say well how many signatures or how many odd things are
00:32:18
off things would you say that you saw at this crime scene and I believe his exact
00:32:24
words were two or three I feel like three feels like more familiar to me to the point where I
00:32:30
wonder if he did say three but two or three is what I've been kind of working off of based off of his statements if
00:32:37
I'm remembering and I think too he says at least two or three it Lynette it stuck with me I mean I feel like that
00:32:45
leaves room now for like tons of speculation because it's like what else was at that crime scene
00:32:51
so I know some of the like most popular theories are and what we I can also mention that Facebook message that I had
00:32:59
found so there's a screenshot that's been circulating around by the person who actually found the girls who saw the
00:33:07
shoe first looked up ended up finding them so there's a facebook messenger messenger picture going around stating
00:33:16
that Libby was nearly decapitated and that it was obviously personal towards her what
00:33:25
an interesting you know thing to say especially if they did not know the person well and again this is not a the
00:33:33
person that's giving that opinion that they believe it to be personal is not an action so can we agree on that
00:33:41
yeah and should we take it a step further in question the the validity of that screenshot
00:33:48
oh I yes well not only that but I think because that screenshot has circulated around this person is now a favorite
00:33:57
suspect of many online sleuth errs which is kind of interesting but um just a roll off of that though I've heard many
00:34:07
rumors and I'm not sure if you've heard the same rumors that Libby had to wear a
00:34:11
scarf at the funeral yeah that's a been a pretty common one to go around and actually I've seen it said that both
00:34:19
were wearing scarfs as well that their funerals I I mean I don't know if that's true obviously I was was not there and I
00:34:29
don't know if that's true but I will tell you this I am of the belief and I'm basing this off of things that I've seen
00:34:35
and heard and a lot of it mind you is second and third hand but I'm hearing this from and seeing this from some
00:34:42
trusting from some trusting persons and sources and this is not insider information this is my opinion I believe
00:34:51
that the that it was a bladed weapon that was used in the in the attack of of the girls I think that it was a gun that
00:35:02
was used to control them and to move them but because of how loud a gun is when it came time to you know that it
00:35:12
was a bladed weapon that was used for that portion of the of the crime now that's interesting I don't know that I
00:35:18
want to take any further than that as far as what the injuries could be and then you take it a step further and you
00:35:26
say well and you bring up a really good thought it's it's this lay person's opinion that it was personal based upon
00:35:37
the injuries a saw or may have seen that it was personal against you said Libby yes yeah
00:35:46
here's where I take that a step further and and you said well that's interesting
00:35:50
especially if they didn't know them it's almost implying that the the victim and
00:35:56
the offender knew one another but we've seen plenty of crimes we've seen plenty of murders where it appears to be
00:36:03
personal in nature but they didn't know each other and that can happen for a multitude of reasons one did Libby
00:36:12
present certain problems to the offender and really pissed the guy off or did he
00:36:18
or did she really fight him fight back in a good strong way and it became personal for him the other thing too
00:36:28
that people often point out is overkill well the the offender must have known the victim because of the overkill that
00:36:37
we see at the scene or on the victim or the overkill that's presumed to be at the scene since we don't know exactly
00:36:45
all right yeah you know looking at other cases not this case but there were plenty of Ted Bundy's victims that had
00:36:55
the appearance of overkill because that's how he preferred to kill the victim that's how he naturally attacked
00:37:02
these victims and he didn't know any of them where there's overkill does not necessarily have to mean that the
00:37:09
offender knows the victim or has a specific hate for that victim that they want to destroy because that's what you
00:37:17
see with overkill you often say to kill somebody is to take them away to to end their lives but the overkill is the
00:37:26
emotion is that they want to destroy that person you don't necessarily have to know them to have that hate the
00:37:33
victim could be a surrogate which it could represent something eyes it's it's seen a lot it could and it's with some
00:37:40
of these killers serial killers in particular some of them it's just a general hatred for women in general and
00:37:48
and that all that means is that for overkill to be present is that the victim is a woman I don't
00:37:55
know I've not heard rumors of of overkill here with Delphi but I have heard and seen the rumors of it possibly
00:38:04
being personal with in regards to Libby I think that that means something that doesn't necessarily mean that they were
00:38:14
that they the perpetrator knew either one of the victims I think this was a stranger abduction and attack and I
00:38:22
think that's part of the reason why the investigation has been so difficult and I think that it became it may have
00:38:30
become personal for the killer so this is something I've gone back and forth on a wat let me ask your opinion do you
00:38:40
think that the girls were killed at the scene we have a vague statement from law
00:38:44
enforcement that would lead us or lead me to believe that their statement is they were killed where they were found
00:38:50
and people have taken that you can take that a million different ways were they taken off someplace else and then
00:38:58
returned to the general area and killed there I don't think any of that went down I think that this the general
00:39:05
statement of they were killed where they were found and they would have evidence
00:39:08
to prove that to them to law enforcement it wouldn't be very hard for them to figure that out but I think that you
00:39:16
have to take an account a few different things all of these crimes and anytime you have a murder especially with a
00:39:21
double homicide you have you have multiple crimes that happen during the commission from the start to finish of
00:39:26
this and we know that they were abducted at some point because they were moved they were under his control and moved
00:39:32
somewhere that they would not want to be so that is the definition of being abducted and then they are killed what
00:39:40
we have here to me is there's not a lot of time that goes by from the time that he Bridge guy first comes on the scene
00:39:49
to the girls to the time when there probably when it's probably all over with and he's in the process of fleeing
00:39:55
the area we have law-enforcement statements that say and again there's they're speculating as well because
00:40:02
until we catch the guy we just don't know but they're saying that on their press releases with the
00:40:08
description of the bridge guy in images of the bridge guy they state that it's believed he left the area by 5:00 p.m.
00:40:16
but could have still been there in the general area when the family started searching for the girls the other
00:40:23
difficult thing here which is weird about the phone with going back to Libby's phone is we have Derek who was
00:40:31
there to pick them up he calls Libby's phone at 3:11 that afternoon because he can't find the
00:40:37
girls now a couple tricky things here she doesn't pick up the phone you could take
00:40:43
that one of two ways whatever happened already happened or by 311 or she's under the control of bridge
00:40:51
guy or has dropped the phone by that time there's also some interesting speculation that we know to be true is
00:40:59
with the with the camera feature that she was using to record the video if you have an incoming call on that iPhone
00:41:09
that she had it would it would stop the recording is that what stopped the recording eventually the phone goes dead
00:41:17
eventually that you know it's going to to voicemail at some point then you take it a step further if they were afraid
00:41:24
enough to record video why not just call 9-1-1 right you know like right you got
00:41:30
to think that may have been an option I'm sure that there's somewhat places that your phone just won't work but why
00:41:37
was that option not used room and here's a little safety tip for anybody out there if you're approached by somebody
00:41:44
that that they know they're aware that you saw them already and they're trying to abduct you at the very least lie to
00:41:54
them and tell them you've already called 911 even if you feel like you can't in that very moment tell them that you've
00:41:59
already called yeah can't hurt by that no no I mean shoot yeah and it's just making me think like at what point were
00:42:09
they under his control at what point did they feel unsafe what was it during the
00:42:15
video was it after the video did it and I think that's a real interesting point to that if I had to
00:42:22
guess that's most likely how the video stopped was probably believe the call coming in from her father and that's
00:42:28
just my opinion obviously but ya know it just makes me wonder at what point they knew they were
00:42:33
in trouble and why they didn't feel comfortable I mean unless he had had a weapon on them at that point yeah what
00:42:42
is really I think I mean then you got to think - it's very difficult to handle two victims at one time even if you're a
00:42:50
man like in two small smaller teenage girls and I want to say - they don't think that the murderer is a very tall
00:42:59
large person they think he's on the shorter side now what did they say they were like five nine to five eleven but I
00:43:06
could be wrong don't quote me on that I'm gonna pull it up I have the FBI seeking information
00:43:12
flyer here somewhere five six - five ten I mean that's a short guy and they put him at a hundred
00:43:20
and eighty to two hundred pounds which is interesting because that's from the the newest information because the old
00:43:28
information had him about twenty pounds heavier but the same height hmm yeah I mean how how could somebody of that
00:43:35
stature and I want to say Libby was taller for her age I believe she would probably would have been close to that
00:43:43
height and I know Abby was a little bit smaller but to be able to control two victims at one time that is not an easy
00:43:51
thing to do by any means that's what you need the gun exactly or some weapon right and this is going back to the
00:44:00
statement - Doug Carter stated Kelsey said as well they both are of the belief that the the
00:44:06
bridge guy that wasn't his first time crossing that bridge they both they're saying anyone that has
00:44:15
walked that bridge before would understand that and I've never walked the bridge so I don't know but I'm going
00:44:21
to believe them with that statement which is interesting meaning he's either from the area or currently lives in the
00:44:28
general area or at least has been to that location a time or two before where I take it a
00:44:35
step further is if you a map of the general area is so key for anybody that's trying to look into this case and
00:44:43
do a little bit of their own websley thing a little bit of their own armchair detective work here because if you look
00:44:50
at the way that that whole situation is laid out if he's familiar with the area if he this is where you got to put
00:44:57
yourself in the mind of the killer of the perpetrator he chose that area he ninjas end up there by accident that
00:45:05
day he chose that area and if we're if we're to believe that he used a gun to control them if we if he brought weapons
00:45:13
with him to the scene there's every indication that he went there and he's using this as some type of hunting
00:45:20
ground now he is using that bridge as a strategy he knows that once somebody gets more than halfway across that
00:45:34
bridge that either he can go to the other side of the bridge and pin them down or they at the very least have to
00:45:43
pass him on that bridge as they're coming back trying to get to to the opposite side I think he was
00:45:50
looking for a certain type of victim and I think he was looking for them to put themself in a state of vulnerability and
00:45:57
the bridge is what caused them to be vulnerable if he's up on a bridge with them right a bridge is not stable like
00:46:06
and if you look at pictures of this bridge it is an old bridge um yeah so I mean you got to think I mean if all it
00:46:13
would take is one of them to push him off and is like even if you have a weapon on them it's still a very risky
00:46:19
area to try to take control of to teenage girls in part I think not only is he chasing after them but I think
00:46:29
that's why I believe him to be moving so quickly across the bridge and there's a
00:46:34
lot of other people that share that opinion is that he wants to catch them at that state of being vulnerable and
00:46:42
at that area for him is getting them on the dead-end side of the bridge and I think that I think that as fast as they
00:46:49
saw him moving is what inspired the the fear that that sent up the red flags about there's something not right with
00:46:58
this guy let's go back to our takes on the the crime scene itself and there being at least two or three signatures
00:47:08
or at least two or three things that were off or odd about the scene according to Robert Ives take that for
00:47:14
what it is but but look at the surface of what we do know and see if any of the things that we already know could apply
00:47:22
to that statement one thing that we do know is multiple victims at one time is a rare it's a rare thing so is Robert
00:47:34
Ives lumping in the fact that we know that there are two victims as being a signature or something that was off or
00:47:41
odd and now are we down to just two things that we have to try to decipher what was was offer odd and you know I've
00:47:48
heard theories that a lot of people believe this was the first time this suspect or perpetrator had killed
00:47:56
somebody I I'm not sure how people have drawn that conclusion being we know so little about the crime itself if it were
00:48:04
his first time offending to initially take on two victims at once and like you with how you had said it's it's rare and
00:48:13
it's not a common thing and it makes me think that somebody who is just you know
00:48:21
starting to kill would not necessarily go straightaway for two teenagers yeah it seems like a more difficult situation
00:48:28
any time you increase your level of risk you're increasing increasing your level
00:48:35
of risk of getting caught and these guys that fantasize about violence and fantasize about abduction or killing
00:48:44
they want to be successful and what it is that they set out to do so they do not want to increase the risk of getting
00:48:51
caught number one but they also don't want to increase the risk of not being successful in living out their fantasy
00:48:59
their violent fantasy the thing that gets difficult there is you have to because we don't know who Bridge guy is
00:49:07
we do not know what his fantasy was what his intention was what his plan was is there a chance that he was unaware until
00:49:18
it was too late that he was approaching two people instead of just one I think that's on the slimmer side of
00:49:27
possibilities I think it's very likely that he knew he was approaching two because I keep going back to that he's
00:49:34
looking for not only a certain type of victim but a victim that puts them selves in a in a certain spot in that
00:49:40
that state of being vulnerable I don't think that two victims was a signature but I think there's a purpose for it I
00:49:50
think there's a reason behind it why he chose two rather than one eye or maybe the numbers not so much important but
00:50:00
the people that he saw the targets that he saw I think there's reasoning behind that like maybe he set his eyes on one
00:50:07
of the girls and the other one was collateral damage that's always a thought process that's a strong
00:50:12
possibility yeah the other strong possibility is were these the first two targets that he saw that didn't contain
00:50:20
a male or was this the smallest group of people that he saw I have some belief and I don't know for certain but there
00:50:31
are some statements and some witness reports eyewitness reports who people that were in the area around this time
00:50:39
of day where it seems to me like he may have had the opportunity to go after a single female of a woman or a or younger
00:50:52
lady by themselves now we don't know that we can't say for certain that he actually saw that target and decided to
00:51:00
pass on it but there seems to be enough evidence out there to me that that is a possibility that he that he didn't you
00:51:09
that target for some reason so then that makes me go back to well maybe it's it's
00:51:14
either this type of victim the number of targets that was important enough for him to move in and act because one thing
00:51:22
we do know is we don't have anybody coming forward saying oh I was attacked or approached by some weird guy on this
00:51:30
day around this time that didn't happen so it almost appears like whoever he first set out to go after he he did he
00:51:38
actually went after them there's also zero this is the one rumor that I would love to squash right here
00:51:45
there is zero evidence or zero reason to believe we cannot say for certain but there's zero evidence to suggest that he
00:51:54
went there targeting one or both of these girls specifically that he knew that they would be there I went there
00:52:01
for the purpose of going after one or both of them so we can state that for several reasons one it was kind of a
00:52:10
last-minute trip that they went out there and - this isn't like a super secluded place this is a place that a
00:52:19
lot of people went to to go hiking especially younger teenagers to hang out or hike the trails which makes me wonder
00:52:28
if he if he knew the bridge and he knew that area well enough he would have known the type of people that would have
00:52:33
ventured to go there especially during the middle of the day of a work week and that also tells me maybe he was looking
00:52:42
for that type of victim your show is called victimology so I don't have to explain to you there there is these
00:52:48
perpetrators have a have a victim type often and BIA if they're a serial offender or not a one-off if you're
00:52:57
going to try to profile the offender it's as important to profile the victim and as important to profile the area and
00:53:06
just to bounce off of that so one really huge issue with the information we know
00:53:14
about this case is and I think this is the reason why people are so upset that it has not been solved and that we don't
00:53:22
more is because we don't know what the motivation was behind the crime they have never said if it was sexually
00:53:29
motivated if it was a rage killing if it was a mission kill they have never ever
00:53:34
clarified on their thought process on that so we don't know if the ultimate goal was to have some sort of sexual
00:53:42
fantasy fulfilled by the girl's death deaths so and I know there's a lot of theories out there that a lot of weird
00:53:50
post mortem activity had happened and I really don't hold a lot of I don't think
00:53:57
they hold much water let's put it that way well again that goes back to if that that means he has to stay there longer
00:54:06
longer every every weird post mortem activity that that he's supposed to have done means he's there longer at the
00:54:16
scene and again increasing his risk level of getting caught or being seen with the victims after the fact and I I
00:54:28
do think that there was some stuff done and I think that that is really where I want to mesh two statements together
00:54:36
where we have Robert Ives who says there were two or three signatures at least two or three signatures we also have
00:54:43
Doug Carter the spokes person for and I know that's not his proper title but he's done he's the upfront one he is the
00:54:51
the face and the voice of the press conferences coming out of the Indiana State Police his statement when he was
00:55:00
addressing the killer you know and he got real personal with his statements and I loved that I loved the
00:55:06
aggressiveness of his statements and addressing the killer directly in some of those press conferences but one of
00:55:13
his statements was he says something like I can promise you they are not the way that you left them that day yeah and
00:55:23
that to me does tell me that there was there was some post-mortem activity that was that were actions by the killer
00:55:34
and I almost feel like that is an attempt to slap the killer in the face because we see this with a lot of these
00:55:43
guys they have fantasies leading up to the to the commission of these types of crimes and then they have fantasies
00:55:50
after the fact and some of them want to relive what took place when they committed some of these crimes to me
00:55:59
that's almost like we know you did some things to these to the victims or to the
00:56:04
area it's not that way today so get it out of your head quit fantasizing about it what what you think that you created
00:56:13
no longer exist to me that points out one of the most common signatures that you will find out there is the posing of
00:56:23
a victim so I feel like to me meshing Carter statement with Robert eyes a statement I feel like posing one or both
00:56:34
of the victims is probably I would put that at a high probability I would also think that there's probably some type of
00:56:42
covering of the victims be it with sticks leaves debris or all of the above because one thing we do know is we have
00:56:52
statements from the searchers that say you know we were in that very general area the night before and we didn't find
00:56:58
them we found them the next day during daylight and then that has spread the bad rumor that the bodies were moved or
00:57:07
the victims were were taken away from the scene and then brought back at some point I think people are over analyzing
00:57:15
that I think it's just as simple is it was dark out right and they didn't and there may have been some camouflage
00:57:23
involved be it leaves sticks debris covering of the bodies that prevented them from finding them that night under
00:57:33
the cover of darkness the other thing we have to factor in there too melissa is keep in mind at night you believe you're
00:57:41
looking for two girls who are alive and well that's a much different thing I still think they the searchers believe
00:57:49
that they were looking for two girls that were alive and well the next day but now that the fear level has
00:57:54
increased for the searchers because the time that has expired but that night you're not you're looking
00:58:02
in a different way you're out in the dark you're calling the girls names hoping to hear them respond to your
00:58:08
voice and when you don't get that you kind of quickly move on in that situation you're hoping to cover as much
00:58:14
ground as possible we just reviewed a case on true crime garage it was the Evansdale murders where the two victims
00:58:22
were found in a remote location and it was such a remote dense area that the the officer said had these hunters just
00:58:34
been five feet or so in a different direction they would have never have seen the bodies so I I don't think that
00:58:42
them not finding them that night means anything other than they didn't find it right they were probably there the whole
00:58:49
time but then it also takes you a step further to go okay well what was the signature were they posed were they
00:58:54
covered where they boat was it both one of the other theories I had heard and I really don't think there's much to it is
00:59:03
that the girls were wearing each others clothes the reason I don't think that's the case because the person who actually
00:59:09
found the bodies I believe the way it happened is he saw the shoe on the ground looked at the shoe began to look
00:59:18
up and ended up seeing Libby in her tie-dye shirt I don't think that they were necessarily dressed in each other's
00:59:26
clothing I thought that was kind of and if he want the posing though I totally could see some some form of that and
00:59:35
also too I had also heard a rumor that either both of them were nude or one but the wearing each other's clothing I
00:59:42
really don't think that's the case the rumor I heard was that one of them was completely clothed or found in all the
00:59:52
clothing that they were last wearing and that one of them might have been somewhat undressed but not completely
00:59:59
nude and again that's just the rumor I heard I think this whole thing with them being in each
01:00:03
other's clothing is probably a rumor that just started at the very local level and grew legs for some reason it
01:00:14
doesn't seem like a likely scenario because you're going to have to if you're the perpetrator you're gonna have
01:00:20
to have them carry out that act for you or you're going to have to strip them and redress them it's C again it's like
01:00:29
a whole lot of extra unnecessary things going on and usually there is a very usually there's a very simple
01:00:38
explanation to what happened and why the issue being for us on the outside trying
01:00:46
to look in one we don't have much information of work off of but - we also don't know as you pointed out the mo or
01:00:55
the intentions of the perpetrator it's hard to profile him and profile his actions and what he did or may have done
01:01:04
that day because we don't know what what the intent was I keep seeing a scene where
01:01:12
his intentions were to do something different and it went sideways at some point and then he he attacked and killed
01:01:21
the girls either out of necessity or out of anger and as I know it seems like a very simple explanation but I to me that
01:01:30
there seems to be some information out there that might point to that that the the shoe on the other side of the water
01:01:37
and then if you're we know he's directing them we we know that 100% because we have the one line of down the
01:01:46
hill he's telling them go down the hill he's not saying look there's a deer where is it down that that hill no he's
01:01:54
directing them to go where he wants them to go he's moving these people along and
01:02:01
why is he moving them where is he taking them what is his intention with that and
01:02:06
then - I take it a step further why if they were killed where they were found I I have to question that he didn't direct
01:02:17
them to that area why would he take them why would he choose to take them across
01:02:21
the water when he didn't have to yeah and you know he could have taken him on dry land elsewhere
01:02:26
yeah the water seems like an added and an added risk level one two and just kind of a dumb move if he were smart
01:02:37
enough and look I'm giving him a lot of credit when I say some of these things and I and I know that I'm just
01:02:44
speculating on a lot but if he was smart enough to choose a victim because they put themselves on the dead-end side of
01:02:49
the bridge that's a tactical move why would he then do something as stupid as to lead them
01:02:55
across the water when there's so much other dry land right in the immediate area that you could have just directed
01:03:03
them that's where I almost wonder did they did they decide to make a run for it at some point or did he lose control
01:03:10
of the situation they fly yeah that's that is one of the things that I often question so the thing that always comes
01:03:16
to my mind is the shoe that was left right did that fall off while she was fleeing and running or did that come off
01:03:23
because the perp was dragging her or she's or she's trying to run full-speed across across the water I mean we've all
01:03:31
done that and your shoes immediately becomes soaked and super heavy and you can you can easily slip out of one of
01:03:37
the shoes in regards to the clothing thing we do have statements from law enforcement that there was some clothing
01:03:44
that was found under or near the bridge so this would be kind of downstream from
01:03:51
where the bodies were found the issue being is we don't have confirmation that it belonged to the victims or that it
01:03:59
has anything to do with the crime at all and then you have to wonder if it did belong to the victims did the killer
01:04:06
place them there for whatever reason or like mislead them yeah my question is depending on the type of crime committed
01:04:15
I mean if a knife were involved right there would be blood this person would most likely have blood all over
01:04:25
themselves and would draw attention to themselves trying to leave the area yeah so I mean unless
01:04:32
those clothes underneath belong to the killer like he had stashed something somewhere or you know he knew he was
01:04:38
going to commit a crime that day and tried to plan to the best of his ability or he left some of his items behind that
01:04:45
were covered in blood that's interesting too because one of the statements is that there was so much evidence left at
01:04:52
the scene so you have to wonder do they believe or do they know that he left some of his belongings there and he does
01:05:01
appear to be overdressed when he's on the bridge and one thing that I've come across many times with people that do
01:05:07
like that they try to sneak into a home and steal things or break into a home and steal things that they will often if
01:05:15
they're if there are people that are experienced at doing this they will often wear multiple shirts and maybe
01:05:22
even multiple head coverings or at least one because they know that if they if anybody sees them if they're if somebody
01:05:31
would spots them either in the house or fleeing the scene oh we got a we got a male black shirt jeans well if he sheds
01:05:42
if in them in the process of fleeing the area if he sheds his black shirt now he's wearing instead of a black
01:05:48
sweatshirt he's wearing a white t-shirt you you might you might overlook him when you see him again and so you have
01:05:55
to wonder is he wearing extra clothing for to protect his person or because he plans on leaving some of it at the scene
01:06:05
if it does in fact get bloody so when you said so much evidence at the scene it made me think so a lot of times with
01:06:13
criminals you know they're obviously categorized as organized or disorganized when they leave evidence at a scene that
01:06:20
is indicative of a disorganized criminal but if he were to have planned to leave
01:06:27
evidence at the scene it completely switches the mo on its head to where the perp is now an organized criminal which
01:06:36
is really kind of interesting and you know it's like if we knew more could probably figure it out but
01:06:43
unfortunately or at least share what the police know with the way that I think this attack went down I think we're
01:06:49
dealing with and you can't have a mixed a mixed offender as well this shows signs of both organized and disorganized
01:06:56
but I feel to me like with the planning that I believe was in play here I believe we're dealing with an
01:07:03
organized individual now did things get go sideways on him and his plan got thrown out the window completely and it
01:07:11
just got out of control that's a possibility I also wonder though - with the word the vague word of evidence that
01:07:17
doesn't have to necessarily mean that it's evidence against the perpetrator it may just be evidence that there are
01:07:24
things at the crime scene that tell them more exactly what happened and how things went down and it doesn't really
01:07:32
point to who committed it it's just they can connect the dots and know kind of the general timeline and what took place
01:07:40
when but then on top of that you also have to wonder this being out in the open in a public place does some of that
01:07:47
evidence quote/unquote evidence some of the stuff that you're collecting at the scene is it just just debris just things
01:07:53
that have been left by other people at other times and it has nothing to do with the case and all you and I talked a
01:07:59
lot about yeah they found her off the side of the road they collected every piece of debris that they could find up
01:08:07
and down that stretch of road and we have to believe very little that little of it actually had to do with the crime
01:08:14
at all when they say evidence you also wonder does does that just mean we found all this stuff and we have to we have to
01:08:21
go through it piece by piece and try to determine if it if it means anything or not and you know that area too that they
01:08:28
were found it's technically the property of somebody who lives farther towards like it's like the back end of
01:08:34
somebody's property is where they were found right wrong Lowe's yes thank you which
01:08:38
is interesting in itself because they are approached we know they are approached on on these scenic trails on
01:08:45
these you know public land let's say and then later found on this private land but yeah it they they but up to one
01:08:52
another I found that interesting too and that's a question that comes up often to people
01:08:58
go well why didn't they scream and I I mean I look at the location of where they were found eventually and where
01:09:04
they were abducted and I go well they may have and they just nobody heard them or the screams were so far off in the
01:09:12
distance that the people that heard them didn't know they were hearing screams right if you want to go like soup super
01:09:22
down into it down into the the weeds with me real quick on what what I think happened here I think the problem with
01:09:32
this case is that whatever he planned on doing it didn't it didn't work out it's
01:09:36
that's not what took place I think he was able to take control and have control for a certain amount of time and
01:09:43
going back to the theory of why take them across the water when there was so much other dry land that you could
01:09:49
Traverse with with your victims as you are directing them where to go part of the whole thing about blood on his
01:09:58
person did he plan for that I think he did plan for that but I think his plan for that was that he was going to be
01:10:05
leaving the area in a location where he didn't think he was going to be seen so that might have just been good enough
01:10:13
for him to not have to to put other things into play there too to avoid that being spotted covered in blood one thing
01:10:23
that's weird is we have statements from local law enforcement that said that they did a cell they subpoenaed cell
01:10:33
phone records within a 5-mile radius of that day within the time of question so anyone whose cell phone pinged in that
01:10:42
location was contacted in questioned by police that's their words contacted in questioned by police I have to believe
01:10:49
that that involves a face-to-face conversation where you can see this guy especially where you think that you can
01:10:55
see him or make out his features from from the video that we have of him on the bridge
01:11:02
so that brings a whole nother thing into play here where and they stated that they look particularly hard to anyone
01:11:11
who was new in the area or who was in the area of the bridge for several hours on that day so they did what I call like
01:11:20
a data dump and I've heard of this type of investigation tactic and other investigations I also know that it is
01:11:30
rather difficult to to pull this off this you know what they call data dump but it seems like they did either
01:11:39
successfully or attempted to so if if they were successful with it you have to take it a step further and go well does
01:11:48
that mean he was he was organized enough and sophisticated enough to not bring his cell phone with him during his time
01:11:59
at the moanin high bridge that day yeah I think I'm leaning more towards that he
01:12:03
did not have a cell phone on him yes that's definitely seems right either he's a dinosaur and just as an own one
01:12:12
or he made a he made an a conscious effort to not bring it with him they've also said that they don't know for
01:12:21
certain if he took a vehicle you know if he drove a vehicle there and left one there and fled in a vehicle or if he
01:12:30
walked to this area I find it interesting I personally think that he drove to the area but then that creates
01:12:38
a whole different set of problems for the perpetrator of going undetected but if he did drive to the area with this
01:12:48
data dump investigation it makes me believe he didn't even leave his his phone in his vehicle that it was just
01:12:56
not a part of the plan at all was purposely left out and that's where you know I go back into the weeds and I say
01:13:04
I think he was trying to direct them to a vehicle oh I I don't think that percent I agree yeah I don't think that
01:13:11
he was I don't think that it went down the way that he wanted it to go down and that
01:13:16
is a big kudos and thank you to the to Abby and Libby they were you know we we have people on record saying that Libby
01:13:29
was a hero because she filmed the bridge guy we also have Mike Pattie on record saying that you know Abby was a hero as
01:13:38
well because the two neither one of them left each other they they wouldn't have
01:13:44
left each other they were best friends till the end and then I take it a step further and say they're both heroes
01:13:50
because they fought back they whatever this guy wanted to happen it didn't go down the way that he wanted it to that
01:13:58
has led to evidence against him that we will be able to use against him someday so let's talk about the connection
01:14:07
between serial killers and signatures so we know that law enforcement use terms like MO and signatures to determine how
01:14:16
someone commits a crime and why they commit a crime or what their you know thought processes so the signature for
01:14:25
law enforcement to state that there are signatures available it most likely points to the fact that they believe
01:14:33
this person has offended before or will offend again there's if it were a one-time crime there would be no need to
01:14:44
even mention the signatures that were there right because the signature is mostly wrapped up in the fantasy of
01:14:50
committing this crime so they've thought about they fantasize about committing this type of crime before and likely
01:14:57
still fantasize about committing this type of crime again and the signature is required by the fantasy and not
01:15:05
necessarily required by the commission of the crime itself right and if it did not go his way it's very possible that
01:15:14
the two girls were killed out of rage because they did not follow his commands and he ended up still performing some
01:15:23
type of signature that could eventually be connected to his other crimes or future crimes
01:15:29
so I think that's very telling by them stating there are signatures that they've noticed in the crime and I - I
01:15:38
had written down as well they used the term red flags as well so I I just really in my gut and I've I've actually
01:15:48
consulted a couple different professionals in the field and I asked them why would law enforcement state
01:15:55
that there are signatures in a crime if they think it's a one-time offender and the answer is they don't they do not
01:16:02
think it's a one-time offender so in you know take take everything with a grain of salt but I think there by saying just
01:16:13
this little statement they're saying a whole lot with it there are some suspects that are known to the public
01:16:20
and even there the wikipedia page has four or five listed there do you like any of their those suspects we don't
01:16:27
need to go through each one but are there any of those suspects that you like and if so why and if if you don't
01:16:36
like any of them what are your thoughts or suspicions on who this guy could be just looking at the crime itself I've
01:16:44
always thought it's some type of a truck driver some type of a delivery driver or
01:16:49
something like that to where there could have been a vehicle stashed somewhere and it would have not it would not have
01:16:55
raised red flags in the area and you know if that were the ultimate goal to get the girls there that would make
01:17:02
sense because that's his domain that's his area that's his property so that being said fairly recently I want to say
01:17:13
close to the beginning of the year there was actually I'm on I'm in a couple of the I'm on a couple of the Facebook
01:17:22
groups about the Delphi case just to watch to see what people are saying most things I don't take completely seriously
01:17:30
just because again - it's all speculation you know all of this is speculation but as of late there was actually a man
01:17:41
who came on to the group claiming he believes that his brother committed the crime I believe this person is already
01:17:50
in prison so currently he's overweight about the same height somewhere in the same range as what they had originally
01:17:58
said at the time he would have been much thinner and another thing too we forgot
01:18:03
to mention is about the gate of the person on the bridge so I I've seen a lot of arguments as far as whether or
01:18:11
not this person is walking very particularly because it's unstable or is it because they have some sort of a limp
01:18:20
this specific person is from the area was a truck driver and has a limp he had had knee surgery or something like that
01:18:29
so at the time he would have been about the same size as the suspects dimensions
01:18:36
so very light weight on the shorter side so I had actually ended up messaging the
01:18:42
brother of this person just to find out whether or not he is he's communicated with law enforcement and he did message
01:18:50
me back in state that he has communicated with them in the Delphi Police are aware as well as the FBI so
01:18:58
as of right this moment that is what my gut is telling me that he looks really good for it why isn't this why isn't
01:19:08
this thing solved yet why do you thing that you think you can hone in on and point out that you think that hey this
01:19:15
is what they need or this is why they can't find this guy well I think one of the main reasons is time has become the
01:19:23
enemy in the case if and you know we can always say if right if this happened then we would have him if this happened
01:19:32
I really believe though and I think we talked about this in the ami Mohammed case as well why sit on evidence for
01:19:39
that long that could potentially identify somebody and we know with Amy's case they did not know it was even
01:19:44
connected right with this case though they knew that was a video and they did not release any of it they
01:19:53
they sent out a still frame of a person and then they sent out a sketch that was
01:20:00
later changed and I mean I think unfortunately I don't know if it was a strategy of law enforcement to not let
01:20:09
the individual know how much they had at first but I mean like my god that the man is captured on tape his voice is
01:20:17
captured on tape there's a video of him available like what what else is it going to take to be able to find this
01:20:25
person I mean I really do think that whoever did commit this somebody knows it was that whether it's a family member
01:20:33
close friend they know but they just have not spoken up and the I mean be with that amount of evidence it would be
01:20:40
very difficult to not identify but at the same time I do think if this information would have been released
01:20:48
previously I have a feeling it would have been solved by now one thing that has taken over my mindscape
01:20:56
in the past few days more so than the statement of there were at least two or three signatures or at least X amount of
01:21:03
things that were odd about the crime scene is I've heard several of the investigators that are at the very
01:21:11
center of this investigation say the same thing and this is in regards to them talking about the crime scene and
01:21:20
potential evidence as well stating that we all thought this would be solved very
01:21:25
quickly we all thought it would just be a day maybe a couple of days it makes me
01:21:32
wonder what happened this that prevented that from being the case these are seasoned investigators these are this is
01:21:40
not their first rodeo and they're all sharing that same opinion from different agencies what changed in the
01:21:47
investigation that prevented that from happening or you wonder do they did they think that they had something that they
01:21:55
did not did they think that they had something of evidentiary value that turned out to not be of any value at all
01:22:04
like they focused too much on one or two things that they should have been looking at the bigger grand scheme no
01:22:10
not that they mishandled it or went about it the wrong way just they they thought they had something that that it
01:22:17
didn't turn out to be what it appeared to be on the surface at the crime scene or in relation to the case yeah
01:22:26
[Music] but to have different individuals from different agencies all say that same
01:22:33
statement and then later we have Doug Carter saying well we think we were onto something early on in our investigation
01:22:38
and that he has that statement right around the time where they're changing directions they're taking the
01:22:45
investigation in a new direction you know when we get the new sketch I think the reason why this thing might not be
01:22:52
solved I think bridge guy has a helper hmm and I don't that doesn't necessarily there's
01:23:01
I think there's something helping him and it's working against the investigation I think there's an added
01:23:10
step there's something extra that law-enforcement are up against here that they may not even be aware that they're
01:23:16
up against and what I mean by that is a helper - I don't even know that it has to be a person it could be some form of
01:23:26
Technology it could be a person and again the the person themselves doesn't necessarily have to be a fool on 100
01:23:34
percent accomplice it could be somebody that just aided in some manner to this individual and may
01:23:42
not even know that they've helped Bridge guy right and what what any of this could be could be it could be a false
01:23:50
alibi you could get that with some kind of technology or a person maybe the person does know what you've done but
01:23:58
you have a false alibi that that looks and it passes the smell test to investigators to where you are not on a
01:24:06
certain list now because you have this alibi but but in fact it's not a truthful one at all you could also come
01:24:13
up with a false alibi based off of Technology and I and I don't know exactly how or what I don't have an idea
01:24:19
of what that would be but if you had somebody I think the problem is a lot of people point out to you well you'll want
01:24:27
somebody that had a type of job or a lifestyle that means that they did not have to be accounted for during that
01:24:34
time because they've always told us in their general profile that this person may have missed an appointment or
01:24:42
an unexcused absence from something during or around the time of the murders so if they if they didn't if that has
01:24:51
not worked on on apprehending this individual then you go well maybe this person did not have to be accounted for
01:24:58
that day at that time and that was my belief for a long time I'm starting to wonder if if this individual maybe they
01:25:06
spoke to them or spoke to the helper and there's something telling them that this
01:25:12
person could not have been in the area at the time but they in fact very well could have well that's interesting too
01:25:19
at that at the announcement they had last year in April do you remember the comment they made to the perpetrator who
01:25:28
may very well be in this room and they stopped talking mm-hmm that has stuck out to me too
01:25:34
and I think it stuck out to a lot of people and a lot of people noticed both of them looked in a very specific area
01:25:41
of the room did you notice that yeah I noticed that I I thought that one the rumor I heard in regards to that was
01:25:52
that there was somebody in the room that has not been fully cooperative with their investigation and they might be
01:26:01
suspicious of the individual because of that but I've also heard from the press that was present there that day that
01:26:09
they had a different feeling in a different sense yes they were all kind of in shock when they heard that
01:26:16
statement at first and thought well the killer could be in the room but I got the feeling that none of the the press
01:26:23
that spoke about their experience that day left there thinking that that police believed that the guy was actually in
01:26:30
the room I do think that they purposely because remember they announced I think they made the announcement on Thursday
01:26:38
or Friday that they were going to have an announcement in the case on that Monday on the following Monday so I
01:26:44
think they purposely did that with the intention of giving the bridge guy enough time to get there should he want
01:26:51
to attend that press conference right and what was interesting to me too is the murders took place on a Monday maybe
01:26:57
they're just going off of something as simple as well he was available on that Monday is there a chance that he's still
01:27:04
available on Mondays let's make the press conference on a Monday that's an interesting thought that's a really
01:27:11
interesting thought I really can't shake and I know it seems so stupid and dumb and out of bounds
01:27:17
right now but I cannot shake the fact that I'm really starting to think he had some kind of helper in some way and I
01:27:25
mean is that somebody that's providing a false alibi is it somebody that dropped
01:27:31
him off in that area right is theirs is it somebody that it was not there for the abduction or the killings themselves
01:27:40
but was going to be a part of something later and then that's where I go back to
01:27:45
maybe that's why he passed on the potential of one victim and when when I was just gonna say that oh my gosh
01:27:52
that's why I mean that's a really that could explain the two victim and there's a good chance that law enforcement knows
01:28:01
this and you go well why would they hold that back are they trying to appeal to one of one of the perpetrators right to
01:28:13
turn on the other one because under that scenario you may have two people and and
01:28:19
my belief is if it was if he did have a helper the the bridge guy is much more guilty of much more horrible crimes than
01:28:27
what the helper would be guilty of and you wonder does Doug Carter come out with that statement that I believe that
01:28:35
you still have just an ounce left of I can't remember his exact words but he's he's trying to play to somebody that
01:28:44
might have some form of remorse or some form of guilt of their involvement in this and get them to come forward to
01:28:52
give them the chance to come forward yeah that helped their theories really that's really interesting Melissa thank
01:28:58
you for coming on today I really appreciate his fascinating discussion and hopefully we will be talking very
01:29:04
soon when this case is solved or going to try so thanks for having me on [Music]
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get matched with a counselor you'll love today that's better help.com slash garage since the recording of this
01:30:05
discussion with Melissa Lee Taub lezin B who is the Carroll County Sheriff told the Carroll County commet that they
01:30:14
have DNA and a partial fingerprint of the suspect that they are seeking and the double homicides of the Delphi
01:30:22
murders if anyone has information you can reach the tip line at eight four four four five nine five seven eight six
01:30:31
until next week be good be kind and don't let it [Music] [Applause] [Music]