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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that knows Rhode Island is neither a road nor an
00:01:52
island he is the captain and a happy holidays to everybody in Rad's Island it's good to be seen and it's good to
00:02:00
see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking Christmas
00:02:11
Ale by the Jolly Folks up at Great Lakes Brewing Company garage grade 4 out of five bottle caps Christmas Ale will fill
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you with the spirit of the holidays with holiday spices and Christmas Ale was brought to us by these eight tiny
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reindeer first up we have Katie in wound socket Rhode Island and if you don't like your bonus you can womb socket and
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a big happy holiday we like your jib to Rachel and Berling game California and also a shout out to Elena in Pittsburgh
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Pennsylvania I don't know if that's right but we tried our best and that's all that matters next up we have Erica
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and Beaverton Oregon hey Erica nice Beaverton here's a longdistance cheers from Dominic in lewism London and last
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but not least we have Reagan Ally and their father Adam all celebrating the holidays in the very beautiful Parts
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Unknown so thanks to all of you the fridge is full and if you would like to buy the captain and myself around wait
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hold on real quick the tree uh lighting ceremony is it's going to be postponed because we try to set uh Fireworks off
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smell uh you can blame that on the Kernel and to buy us around for next week's show go to True Crim garage.com
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and click on the Donate button all right that's enough of the business everybody
00:03:36
gather around grab a share grab your eggnog and grab a beer and hand it to me let's talk some true
00:03:49
[Music] crime [Music] it's heartbreaking that we're still here four years later every year is the day
00:04:16
is approaching I kind of dread it an agonizing anniversary for family and friends of Alisa Sherman I stand here
00:04:24
and I feel sick knowing that she was murdered over over here it's horrible it's it's terrible but for her you know
00:04:34
I you we get up and we come for her to East 12th and Hamilton Avenue in downtown Cleveland where they've
00:04:41
gathered each March 24th since that tragic Day in 2013 when the loving mother and
00:04:47
Cleveland Clinic nurse was brutally stabbed 11 times in broad daylight as she headed to meet her divorce attorney
00:04:56
the unidentified Killer caught on this grainy surveillance video video that best friend Jan Nash has repeatedly
00:05:03
studied it's so distressing to look at it I keep looking at it thinking who Could That Be a $50,000 reward is being
00:05:12
offered in the case Cleveland deputy chief Ed Tomba says this type of attack says a lot a knife very personal you
00:05:20
know um nothing was taken so we know it wasn't a robbery uh she was down here for a reason she was down here to see
00:05:26
somebody so um you know it's very uh very personal police and prosecutors have never stopped searching for the
00:05:33
suspect then last year in a bizarre twist Alisa's divorce attorney Gregory Moore was indicted and pled not guilty
00:05:40
to several charges including tampering with evidence and obstructing official business it's being reviewed looked at
00:05:48
and um I cannot really give any other further comment with regards to the status but rest assured that case has
00:05:56
not gone unnoticed in this office giving a Lisa's loved ones especially her children Jen and Jason Sherman Reason
00:06:03
for Hope This is the first year we've had actually nice weather it's beautiful so maybe it's a sign that this will be
00:06:10
the year that we get [Music] Justice more than 600 people came to the Memorial Chapel in Cleveland High for
00:06:29
Alisa Sherman's funeral services which took place on March 28th 2013 Just 4 days after she was killed in downtown
00:06:39
Cleveland Ohio the large Chapel was full that day it was so full that they had filled the Overflow rooms as well
00:06:48
Alisa's children this is Josh Jennifer Jason and Jeremy they sat nearby her Pine casket in an offset family
00:06:57
visitation room mhm the children's significant others were there they were present that day as well as well as
00:07:04
Alisa's Three Brothers Sanford Alisa's husband of 31 years stayed to himself while he was present at the service and
00:07:14
in the room with the rest of his family he stood quietly in the back of the room
00:07:19
separated from them all many of the family members assisted with the eulogy Jason spoke of his mother Alisa and how
00:07:27
much she loved him and much love she gave to Jason his siblings and her parents saying all she wanted was for
00:07:35
them to be happy and she did everything in her power every day to be sure of that another family member asked the
00:07:43
question why do bad things happen to good people and adding that there is no good answer to that but one thing's for
00:07:50
sure Alisa was good people but unfortunately that wasn't enough to prevent her tragic and cruel death at
00:07:59
what would be the hands of a coward Jennifer Alisa's daughter spoke and her words may have been the most
00:08:09
powerful she called her mother the special gift of her life she said she could always count on her mother and how
00:08:19
glad she was to be Alisa's daughter and best friend before the end of the eulogies as the family prepared to
00:08:27
finish the service Josh Alisa's firstborn stood up it is my understanding that he was not listed as
00:08:35
a speaker that day mhm Josh stepped to the podium and said quote I feel like I'm in a nightmare right now I feel like
00:08:45
I'm going to wake up and it's going to be a bad dream she was the best mother in the world I wish I would have been
00:08:55
closer with her this is not right in the way that that she died is not right I'm
00:09:00
sick of hearing about these stories on the news no one knows who did it I'm going
00:09:06
to say it right now my father had nothing to [ __ ] do with this I'm saying it right now she was the best
00:09:13
mother in the world and if I find out who did this I will take care of them myself all right so a couple things to
00:09:23
unravel there right mhm so he's he's making statements that this is not right but his father had nothing to do with it
00:09:32
so again we have the father at the service but he's kind of keeping his distance which you know if he had
00:09:38
nothing to do with it then you know you got to feel bad for the guy because you know this is uh his wife you know his
00:09:45
best friend for a long time they they had many kids together they built a life together and even though it was coming
00:09:51
to an end you know he's in a situation where he is at at the this funeral but everybody knows
00:10:01
that their relationship was over their relationship was over and I think you know we have to hone in on this what
00:10:09
Josh is saying is that not only was the relationship over but it's being reported at this point that he could be
00:10:16
his father Sanford could be a suspect in the death of his mother right and you know he's obviously very frustrated of
00:10:25
course when we lose people that we love there are they are just an array of feelings and emotions that
00:10:31
we have to go through and one of them certainly is always anger whether the person was murdered or or accidentally
00:10:40
killed or something that you knew was going to happen terminally sick there is anger that comes with that in a murder
00:10:46
situation of course large amounts of anger huge amounts of anger and then to top that off you have a loved one that
00:10:55
that that is probably helping you grieve through through this situation that is being accused of having committed that
00:11:04
murder or being involved in that murder right so I certainly get his anger the thing that I struggle with here though
00:11:10
captain and I know that there was some there could be some trouble between sford and some of his children as well
00:11:19
and I know that they were going through a separation and I don't know what kind of person sford is I don't know what
00:11:25
kind of individual they are he is you know especially when it comes when you talk about men you know some men are not
00:11:32
overly affectionate some some men do not show their affection for others even their children right uh in public um
00:11:41
some men are just not built that way I do question and I and I personally and I know everybody behaves
00:11:48
differently but in my personal opinion I find samford's actions to be a little strange on the day of those Services I
00:11:58
understand that maybe he had some issues with Alisa's family members I if the mother of my children whether I
00:12:06
liked her or or didn't like her at all right if the mother of my children were taken from their children in this manner
00:12:16
I could do nothing but open my arms and and and hug them and hold them and talk to them and and and speak with them so I
00:12:25
you know I personally I find his his actions on this day this final goodbye to their mother their their wonderful
00:12:33
mother I find his actions a little off-putting to me well again he might just be more of a stoic individual and
00:12:42
maybe it's you know by being the rock that you're sometimes it's just you know maybe you can't hug people or be overly
00:12:50
affectionate but if you can be the pillar to show that hey we'll be strong and we'll get through this that's not a
00:12:57
bad thing all right so let's give a little background here on Alisa and the Sherman family because as it's plain to
00:13:04
see there are things going on within her home within the Sherman family and around them that are going to be Keys
00:13:11
possibly keys to this case Alisa was the daughter of two survivors of the Holocaust her parents actually met and
00:13:20
fell in love in a displaced person's Camp they moved to Cleveland Ohio in the early 1950s growing up Alisa was
00:13:29
regarded as one of the prettiest girls in the neighborhood Alisa attended hiron Road nursing school she also attended
00:13:37
events with other Jewish students at nearby C at a nearby campus that's where she met a medical student named sford he
00:13:45
was a bigger dude as we described yesterday described as a heavy set uh person and six feet tall or taller with
00:13:53
brown hair and brown eyes his parents were also Holocaust survivors Alisa and Sanford fell in love and they were
00:14:02
married about 2 years later this is in November of 1982 by the early 1990s Alisa and sford
00:14:11
had begun to fill their four-bedroom home with children sford at this point Captain he was running a very successful
00:14:19
uh practice he was an opthalmologist and Alisa stopped working as a nurse once they started having
00:14:26
children to raise the children right they would go on to have a total of four uh Josh Jennifer Jason and Jeremy but
00:14:33
the marriage certainly had its troubles Alisa's Brothers had nice things to say about sford uh but added he had two
00:14:43
sides to him Sanford was at times incredibly generous to friends and family right Sanford was known to invest
00:14:51
thousands of dollars in stocks and day trading but he liked to boast about his wealth he he's also described as a tough
00:15:02
and mean individual even with his own family at times in 1999 the Sherman family of six
00:15:10
they moved into a 4,880 ft five-bedroom home that's pretty big big home pretty yeah yeah that's
00:15:20
very big very big home Jason I think my house is like 400 square F feet you could put the garage in a corner of that
00:15:27
home Jason one of the sons recalled the house the in-house fighting he experienced saying that he has memories
00:15:37
of when he was 3 years old sitting on the carpet in the family room and covering his ears when his parents were
00:15:44
fighting the police were called to their house on numerous occasions throughout his childhood um he says because of
00:15:52
himself or one of his siblings calling the cops when the parents were fighting okay but there was no charges as far as
00:16:01
like domestic violence or anything I don't believe there was ever any charges uh but let's go let's go through some of
00:16:08
this uh some of these squabbles here okay in 2004 um everything seemed to take a turn
00:16:15
for the worst Sanford was 49 at this time he unexpectedly retired from his practice his very successful practice
00:16:24
according to well according to court records in deposition samford's office assistant had quit and
00:16:32
moved out after working 18 years on the job rather than hire a replacement and train them he decided to Simply close
00:16:41
his practice Alisa at this time fishy well yeah I mean he he retired unexpectedly he was
00:16:50
very successful he certainly had the money to retire um so you know who knows who knows how fishy that actually is
00:16:58
Alisa then returned to work as a nurse at the Cleveland Clinic in Beachwood meanwhile sford spent weeks at a time at
00:17:07
their summer home in Florida or sometimes in New York MH this again according to court records and
00:17:14
depositions the family's disputes also continued there was a police report fi filed December 12 2004 stating that
00:17:24
9-year-old Jeremy Sherman called 911 because he was frightened when a fight erupted between his parents sford told
00:17:33
police the argument started between him and Alisa over the prizes I guess they were playing holiday
00:17:41
games like family holiday games right and they had set aside prizes for the winners I don't understand the I have a
00:17:49
full understanding of of the actual argument that erupted to the point where the son 9-year-old son has to call the
00:17:56
police yeah um but but AR the holidays just the best times right well I guess Josh said that the
00:18:06
the fight escalated when Jennifer joined in the argument Jennifer's his older sister she jumped in and she took a side
00:18:14
and it's obvious what side she took because she started swearing at her brothers as well as her
00:18:22
father at this point Jeremy said that Josh his uh his other brother threw a care okay so it's like a
00:18:34
WWE Christmas party that's some game of Scrabble right there I'll tell you yeah no I don't I don't know what game they
00:18:41
were playing but they it was reported that they were playing games and it turned into this this argument here now
00:18:48
uh we said that Alisa had returned to work as a nurse um less than a year later this is in October of 2005 another
00:18:56
fight broke out this time uh it's again between Alisa and sford in a statement filed with the police sford reported
00:19:04
that Alisa hit him and was beating the television in samford's car with one of those handheld massager things mhm um in
00:19:14
the same report Alisa told police sford routinely called her names threatened to
00:19:20
leave her and withhold family finances from her right so she got fed up with it she's
00:19:29
blew up uh it sounds to me like there's multiple people in this house blowing up on
00:19:36
occasion so we clearly have two very intense people right two probably pretty hard-headed people as well getting into
00:19:44
it on a regular basis these squabbles between them are escalating to the point where police are getting called and
00:19:52
everyone know yeah and everyone knows how much the police love showing up time and time again to the same home and
00:19:59
dealing with the same married couple right one thing I always wonder about these situations Captain is
00:20:06
like you know calling the police does that like set um does that become a trending thing with inside the house
00:20:13
like the okay so what I mean by that is the first time that the police are called by the children or by the mom or
00:20:20
dad right is that like a hard threshold to cross and then the next time there's a fight that breaks out it's not so
00:20:27
tough to cross that threshold and then the next time it's a little easier to the point where almost it becomes a
00:20:33
routine thing and you don't need as much strife and you don't need as much anger
00:20:39
and and shouting and potential violence just to call them uh I've never called the cops you know with the fight with a
00:20:47
significant other yeah I've never had the cops called to my house either so I've always wondered that just because
00:20:54
you know when you hear a lot of these stories it seems like at some point it becomes almost a
00:21:00
routine thing right like oh you cross the line well it's it's similar to uh and I don't know if other people's
00:21:08
marriages were like this or are like this but you know it's uh similar to when at least when you're first married
00:21:14
you get in an argument with your spouse and you have these moments where you take your ring off like that's a thing
00:21:21
like you know oh now we're arguing so much that I'm going to I'm going to take my ring off and place it on the counter
00:21:26
so you know that the ring is on the counter I don't even know what that's about but uh but the point is is that
00:21:34
yeah I think with a lot of these arguments that we just keep escalating and then it becomes the norm so their
00:21:42
Norm was we have big I'm sure they had more fights than just the ones that were called by the police oh yeah yeah I'm
00:21:49
sure there were a lot of smaller you know scaled arguments and and when we say fighting fighting is a weird thing
00:21:57
because to me fighting can mean arguing as well where I you know I've said the word fight or fighting to people and
00:22:04
they're like immediately they're looking for a black eye on somebody black eye yeah oh oh my God you got in a fight you
00:22:10
know but but where I'm from people commonly say fighting could refer to just a verbal altercation right I
00:22:16
normally say he just he just bruised me with his [Laughter] words I got a black eye of the heart no
00:22:26
yeah so it and again when you have this many kids in your house and your kids are getting involved and they're
00:22:32
throwing things you know it might paint a darker picture of this couple than actually is MHM well yeah and you know
00:22:42
what's weird here is that that last fight in particular the one from October 2005 the thing that strikes me here is
00:22:51
that okay so we have her words Alisa's words are Sanford routinely called her names threaten to leave her and withhold
00:22:59
thei the family's finances from her well he sounds like a little bit of a douche
00:23:04
and I'm guessing that means withhold them from potentially the children as well you'll see this often actually
00:23:10
where you know a husband goes to work he is the bread winner for a while she's the stay-at-home mom so then he keeps
00:23:18
the finances in the dark a little bit like this is my money not your money or that's the carrot to dangle in front of
00:23:26
in front of them if something go bad or you don't get your way yeah um but what I think I'm seeing here go ahead and I'm
00:23:34
not saying that all men do this but I've seen this in uh multiple cases where I have a friend for example that might be
00:23:42
a little too jealous and they have a kid and they kind of really push the issue to you stay home and you take care of
00:23:52
the kid and it seems like this nice reward that they're giving their and they're treated like a second class
00:23:58
citizen right and and then and they right uh I still remember this one argument between a friend the wife
00:24:05
wanted to take classes or something and he's like but you don't have any money for classes and I would thought oh my
00:24:13
God like she stays at home and takes care of your kids you're her money you should be giving her money for these
00:24:20
classes yeah and you don't need to approve of what class that's almost like okay bring bring it to me and ask me for
00:24:27
approve approval or I could decline it right this just should just be well and obviously you know if your wife is
00:24:34
spending money all willy-nilly then you know she's spending more than you make than there lock her in a box in the
00:24:40
basement but no merry Christmas everybody oh man I can't wait to read your holiday letter
00:24:47
it's a colonel Christmas no but uh so I think you know it seems like maybe that he was using
00:24:55
these as ways to control her but then after after he you know retired this is after he retired and he's here's the
00:25:01
thing he's going to New York he's going to Florida and he who knows how much money he's spending and he's keeping
00:25:07
that confidential because he I he I don't think he wants somebody telling him what to do right well and the other
00:25:14
thing that I was getting at that I kind of see here especially with that last argument where she's saying she he's
00:25:21
swearing at her uh calling her names threatening to leave her right okay so this is the vibe I get where and then
00:25:28
then the report is she smacks him or hits him right and then she takes this handheld massager which is a deadly
00:25:35
deadly weapon especially if you plug it in and turn it on she's she's beating the TV in his car according to Sanford
00:25:44
with this item right right so what I'm seeing here is I'm seeing a horrible situation where we have this
00:25:51
guy basically bullying verbally bullying her right and at some point she saying you know what you're I'm going to teach
00:25:59
my kids and this is the wrong way to teach them but she's going to teach the kids that it's not okay for a husband to
00:26:06
bully verbally bully his wife well this my gut feeling is that you know he he's he's hiding transactions because he's
00:26:15
spending money on possibly other women and I think these actions her actions beating stuff you know beating up a car
00:26:23
beating up TV these are intense actions to me this is somebody that found out information
00:26:31
that maybe he uh is uh going outside the marriage intense unless she too is an intense person as described as some of
00:26:40
her her family members saying that they were both intense people no no no I think they had some intense
00:26:45
disagreements and things going on underneath the surface that maybe maybe some of the children were aware of maybe
00:26:51
they weren't right but we got a 49-year-old that retired it seems like he's going through a little bit of a
00:26:56
midlife crisis and he's spending weeks at a time in New York or Florida you're going to try to tell me that he's not
00:27:01
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holidays to everybody happy holidays at this point Captain we have Jennifer Sherman she's the only daughter of
00:29:24
Samford and Alisa Sherman mhm and she's going to start distancing herself from her father she's furious at him for how
00:29:33
he is treating her mother and how he handled himself throughout the divorce proceedings and further fractured their
00:29:43
family well not the proceedings but the the talks right because they're leading towards the yeah you're right I I I
00:29:51
misspoke there and and what I meant to say is and I think this is what her thoughts are as well is that
00:30:01
this eventually there would be you know a separation that it was emminent it was
00:30:07
going to happen right and I think that this was a long time coming and I think that she's saying she's disappointed in
00:30:14
him for how he handled himself during the course of that portion of their relationship as it was tapering off and
00:30:21
how she believed that his actions were fracturing their immediate family yeah but also too when when it's time to go
00:30:30
hey it's time to get a divorce right there are some couples that actually can agree upon things and it doesn't have to
00:30:38
be this drag out fight normally once you get lawyers involved then your lawyer is
00:30:44
going to fight for stuff that maybe you don't even want mhm so the best thing you can do is if you're both levelheaded
00:30:52
that you can sit down and and come up with some kind of agreement but once you get those lawyers involved and and again
00:31:00
yeah I understand that the daughter is taking the mom's side I get that but some of this stuff you know divorce
00:31:08
becomes a business transaction as well so his lawyer might have been saying look you need to do these things to
00:31:15
protect yourself because you don't want to have to go to Walmart and be a greeter or
00:31:19
something yeah and as far as you know 2011 as far as the Sherman family is concerned it describ by many close to
00:31:28
them as disintegrating what a horrible word to have describ your family a family of six
00:31:36
and the older Sherman family children as we had said they would they were starting to choose sides Josh distanced
00:31:44
himself from his mother taking his father's side Jennifer as stated pulled away from Sanford siding with her mother
00:31:51
and in January it was January of 2011 when Alisa wrote an email this was to the then principal of where Jeremy was a
00:32:02
sophomore in high school she requested that Jeremy be allowed a pass fail grade for one of his classes rather than let
00:32:11
his underperformance affect his grade point average her emails stress that his academic struggles were due to the
00:32:19
family problems within the household in the email she stated that she had been battling and struggling with a very
00:32:27
trolling hurtful spouse for many years she wrote it looks like divorce is imminent it took me a long time to reach
00:32:35
this point tried to avoid it at all cost but seeing how my oldest son turned into
00:32:41
a reincarnate of his father I realize I have to free Jeremy from this environment nobody knows about
00:32:50
the steps I need to take so Elisa filed for divorce in June of 201 of that same year according to the kyoga county court
00:33:01
documents and this is when she hired Joe Stafford and of Stafford and Stafford at
00:33:07
the advice of a longtime friend old Stafford and Stafford Stafford all those guys Stafford and
00:33:14
Stafford is regarded as one of Northeast Ohio's busiest law firms dealing with family law it's because they have such a
00:33:21
clever name Stafford built a reputation for handling complex high-profile divorce cases the day after he received
00:33:31
divorce papers from Alisa sford filed for divorce as well Alisa moved into the bedroom downstairs in the downstairs
00:33:40
portion of their home neither Alisa North Sanford wanted to leave the home out of fear of the
00:33:48
courts um seeing as it that one of them had vacated the property right police reported visiting the home six times
00:33:57
times that year in 2011 one police report from July reveals an argument between Alisa and sford and Josh another
00:34:06
from that same month shows Josh called 911 because he was convinced hang on to your your your seat
00:34:13
Captain okay Josh called 911 because he was convinced Alisa stole losing lottery
00:34:19
tickets and collectible coins out of his bedroom according to one of Alisa's Brothers losing lottery tickets yeah
00:34:30
okay and according to one of Alisa's Brothers Josh by that point had basically disowned his mother okay let
00:34:37
me let me if if there's any children listening there should not be any because this this is an adult show yeah
00:34:44
welcome to Adult Swim um the thing here is if you're a child I love this he called the police because his mother
00:34:51
stole losing lottery tickets and collectible coins from his bedroom let me clue you in here kids
00:34:57
first of all that's not your bedroom that's her bedroom right and second of all everything within the confines of
00:35:03
those four walls those are hers too right everything if your parent takes something from your pant pocket your
00:35:09
room your basement your garage wherever that is theirs it's not yours you can't steal from your children unless they're
00:35:17
unless they're up unless they're 18 or older and providing for themselves but that's not technically true I mean
00:35:24
because you could you could buy something love of some value I was just watching freak Freaks and Geeks he
00:35:31
bought that drum set and his dad just sold it and he wanted money for it cuz he bought it with his own money but
00:35:39
don't you think Josh is being silly here calling 911 on his mother I'm just right
00:35:45
well because it's I get what you're saying it's it's not every I kind of made it in every
00:35:51
situation kind of thing this world isn't black and white there's some gray colonel a little gray but it's not in
00:35:59
Josh's bedroom on a stack of losing lottery tickets he's wrong here talk about what's in his bedroom please don't
00:36:05
call 911 on your mother well but this is again this is the this is the family standard yeah you're right see that's
00:36:12
what I was getting at maybe they've broken that threshold to the point where it's like you just got to tell somebody
00:36:17
you got to tell on somebody the cops have actual things they need to do so anytime you wonder why oh hey why didn't
00:36:25
they uh why didn't they solve this crime over here solve this murder well it's because of [ __ ] like this right because
00:36:32
you got some [ __ ] kid that lives in this giant house going my Mom stole my losing lottery tickets well first of all
00:36:40
why do you have lottery tickets to begin with and why would you keep losing lottery tickets are you just that much
00:36:47
of a loser like hey man these are winners to me well by the end of 2011 I guess sford
00:36:54
this seems a bit strange to me at this point he's seeking help from friends to persuade to try to persuade Alisa to
00:37:02
settle the divorce um how's that strange to you I guess it's not strange it I only say that because it seems like
00:37:10
there's so much angst between the two of them going into this that it that for someone to have a level head and and
00:37:18
come out with this we should just settle this thing we should just sit down like
00:37:21
adults and agree on things I'm not seeing that type of behavior leading up to this well but what he might be trying
00:37:28
to get he might not be saying Hey I want her to agree to everything I want or we
00:37:34
should just sit down and talk to this he might say my lawyer has talked to her lawyer her lawyer has talked to mine
00:37:40
multiple times wherever we're at right now let's just settle this and and like I said before it's because of the
00:37:48
lawyers you get the lawyer involved the more times you call them the more money they charge you you get a little retain
00:37:56
ER right mhm retainer once that money runs out real quick and then they just start charging
00:38:04
you an arm and a leg and they don't care what it cost and hey no that's how they
00:38:10
get paid they don't care right and so it could be oh he has some collectible car
00:38:14
that you don't even like well let's just argue about it cuz there's going to be a
00:38:19
couple more phone calls so maybe that's what he was trying to go hey we're wasting money we're wasting money that
00:38:26
our family has created and we're wasting money that could be used children's college funds or on your next house or
00:38:35
on my next house we wasting money on lawyer fees maybe that's what it was well your way of thinking makes a lot of
00:38:42
sense because it's about that same time that that Sanford's requesting that the court put a restraining order on all
00:38:48
joint bank accounts attached to Alisa's name including those that she held with her mother uh with with Jason and with
00:38:58
her daughter Jennifer Alisa grew concerned about this though because she believed it direct it directly
00:39:05
influenced their children's Financial stability in January of 2012 Alisa sent herself an email at 2:
00:39:16
in the morning rambling and expressing her fears she wrote I am really afraid he is going to have me killed Alisa put
00:39:26
a de bolt on her bedroom door and locked herself in her room each night in an email to her attorney Alisa wrote I told
00:39:36
you from the beginning I needed your help to bring a bully down I need to teach my sons that is not it is not okay
00:39:45
to threaten and terrorize women even if I come out broke it will be worth it to give them this life lesson right
00:39:55
assuming that they're going to get the lesson that's the that's the thing and sometimes people go I'm going to do this
00:40:01
and I I'll go broke proving this point if they're not if they don't receive the message then you wasted your damn time
00:40:11
yeah cuz you could Flash Forward 20 years and that same kid that you were trying to teach a lesson is saying well
00:40:18
if she would have just let it go she couldn't just let it go and now we're all broke right or she's broke yeah
00:40:26
right right and see what you did you know now you need those losing lottery tickets right to bail yourself to double
00:40:33
triple check them in case there's a a free entry or $2 winner hey look you won you won being a loser well uh in March
00:40:43
of 2012 Stafford's law license was suspended for one year after the Ohio Supreme Court Stafford or Stafford I
00:40:53
don't I'm uncertain as to which Stafford we're talking for one St for two yeah but this was after the Ohio Supreme
00:40:59
Court found that he had violated six of the state's rules of professional conduct uh for judges and attorneys in
00:41:08
his absence yeah Alisa's case was given over to Stafford's senior associate and this is Gregory Moore but we still don't
00:41:18
know which Stafford but this Captain was not a good thing for Alisa she told her brother
00:41:27
Edward that the new attorney Gregory Moore he was often late for meetings and he was unresponsive to text messages and
00:41:37
emails within the first 6 months Moore filed several continuances on Alisa's case pushing back the divorce
00:41:47
proceedings because he was allegedly unprepared to appear in court yeah I guess during this time time
00:41:56
Alisa interviewed at least two other attorneys two other lawyers to take her case but apparently her case was too far
00:42:05
along so so no one could take the case and unfortunately it sounds like Alisa was short on funds by this time as well
00:42:14
you know she's already given a substantial amount of money to this Stafford and Stafford to take on her
00:42:21
case with it being a high-profile you know a law firm that's considered to taking on high-profile cases I'm
00:42:27
guessing that was not a cheap retainer fee oh well not only the retainer fee but they could charge you you know 150
00:42:36
bucks an hour or they charge you every time you call them mhm I mean you call your your lawyer two or three times
00:42:44
they're like hey that's extra 1,500 what what you didn't even do anything this goes for other forms of contractors as
00:42:52
well um you know but some of them will bill you you know every for every 15 minutes of a
00:42:59
phone call right um there there was a company you know when I I talked about many times that I've worked in property
00:43:04
management for years There Was An Architect that we worked with all the time and this guy he was a super nice
00:43:12
guy but of course he should be super nice cuz he was getting paid like you wouldn't believe cuz if you called him
00:43:17
with a question or you sent him an email regardless if it took him 2 minutes or 10 minutes he would Bill our company for
00:43:25
15 minutes of time time for a simple email well I I build people an hour and and this guy well he's building by the
00:43:32
quarter hour and then he would often schedule meeting after meeting after meeting like unnecessary meetings so he
00:43:39
could charge you for it oh man he kept showing up I'm sure we we were we might have been his only client he was so
00:43:45
smart with how he was working these uh these bills but by March of 2013 according to the court records Jo
00:43:54
judge Rosemary gold ordered that no more name that is a name ordered no more continuances be granted in Alisa's case
00:44:05
and that the trial would begin on March 26th so just two days before their day in court Gregory Moore Alisa's attorney
00:44:15
sent Alisa a text message requesting that she meet him at his office downtown to discuss final preparations for their
00:44:24
case on her way there Alisa spoke with her best friend on the phone Alisa's friend said that Alisa
00:44:32
sounded very optimistic yeah but she was anxious so optimistic but anxious and then of course we know that shortly
00:44:41
after this phone call Alisa was killed that evening just two days before the court
00:44:52
appearance thank you to everyone for checking out our series on this strange crime and I tell you what Captain we are
00:45:00
going to get into some suspects here very soon it's going to get even stranger yeah and there's a lot going on
00:45:06
here so we hope that you will continue to to join us here in the garage and until episode three or Stanford and
00:45:13
Stanford be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] [Applause] you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to
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