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GameChanger [Music] [Music] n welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:43
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that knows that fortune tellers make a killing nowadays
00:01:50
here is the captain call me old swamy it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
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telling a friend this week we are featuring Black Tuesday Grand Reserve 2020 by the incredible men
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garage grade four out of five bottle caps and a very speci special thank you to Thomas from Dallas PA for sending
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this beauty to us here at the garage big shout out goes to Jennifer from rava Ohio next up Captain we have Lena
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Record it's on Stitcher premium you can find a link at our website at True Crime
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garage.com and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
00:03:23
talk some true crime directly to the killer who may be in this [Music] room only a coward would do such a
00:03:42
thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
00:03:48
murdered two little girls only a coward would do such a thing don't give [Music]
00:03:58
up we will not [Music] stop 24 hours of course since they were reported missing 13-year-olds Liberty
00:04:09
German Abigail Williams last scene around 1:00 Monday afternoon near the monan high bridge that abandoned rail
00:04:17
Bridge just outside of Deli news 18's Brad opheim joins us now live from Caroll County where that surge continues
00:04:25
at this hour Brad Jeff like you said Liberty German and Abigail Williams were last seen
00:04:31
yesterday afternoon when they were dropped off near that bridge now they had made arrangements to be picked up by
00:04:36
family members later that afternoon but they never showed up now a staging area has been set up at the deli fire
00:04:43
department and since I've been here I've seen hundreds of people come in and out
00:04:46
of this staging area we are told that volunteers will be sent out in groups where they will comb the area in efforts
00:04:51
to find these two girls I was able to actually catch up with Abigail Williams mother Anna Williams and she says she is
00:04:58
Amazed by the outpouring of support from the community I also spoke with the Carol County Sheriff to lesen and he
00:05:04
says they are working with officials on getting an Amber Alert issued just in the last couple hours I have been at the
00:05:09
staging area I've seen and spoke from volunteers that don't even live in Carol County including one man from West
00:05:15
lafette who came over and joined the search he said he has a teenage daughter himself and wanted to do what he could
00:05:20
to make sure those girls make it home safe directly to the killer who may be in this room
00:05:32
only a coward would do such a thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
00:05:43
murdered two little girls only a coward would do such a thing don't give [Music]
00:05:54
up we will not stop we're here in the garage me and the colonel talking with skip
00:06:12
Jansen about who he believes should be the number one person of interest skip when did you start your investigation
00:06:22
into the deli murders that's a good question I've probably been looking into it for the last year or so I guess I got
00:06:28
into it cuz I thought it was I was intrigued by the fact that there were audio and video of the Killer and I
00:06:35
thought it was even more unique that one of the victims had was the one who had done the video of him so that's how I
00:06:40
kind of got started looking into it and why do you think so many people on the internet have been fascinated with the
00:06:47
deli murders another good question I think probably those reasons as well as I think the small town aspect plays a
00:06:54
part in it and I think that the fact that you know anytime two children are murdered you know people have a
00:07:01
fascination with that and for people that don't know Deli has a population of just under 3,000 individuals yeah very
00:07:08
very low populated area and the unusual thing about it is for a town that has less than 3,000 people I've never seen a
00:07:16
case that had this many potential Persons of Interest yeah on the internet there's hundreds of side by sides but
00:07:22
law enforcement has stated over and over in different press conferences that they
00:07:27
believe the Killer is local to Deli correct I yeah I mean I agree with that if that's what you're asking I think the
00:07:34
the area that the crime was committed in is is such a remote area that the odds of this being someone who was from out
00:07:42
of town or a random type murder I think the odds are probably a little too long for that yeah I want to Echo that but I
00:07:50
do want to point out that they have what what their exact words are is that we believe that you the person is local
00:07:57
someone either from Deli living in Deli or someone that works there so not necessarily doesn't have to
00:08:05
be an actual member of the deli proper population according to those words and statements that have been released by
00:08:13
law enforcement but I do agree 100% with you Skip and Captain given the nature of the crime
00:08:20
scene and the Monon High Bridge and the trail system there there are people that
00:08:28
live in Deli and live in Carroll County that I've spoken to or heard in interviews state
00:08:34
that they didn't even know those Trails existed or the bridge existed so for some random person to just find that and
00:08:42
use that as a it the killer used this as a hunting ground whether he intended to
00:08:47
kill someone there or not he was hunting for prey for a victim or victims that day at that location and given what I've
00:08:58
seen and reviews as far as maps go I would like to go there and walk the uh terrain myself but given the remoteness
00:09:06
of that area and the lay of the land somebody had to have familiarity with that location I agree with that I think
00:09:16
people get misled a little bit sometimes they see they'll look at Google Maps and
00:09:20
and see that one of the roads that the bridge is off of Highway 300 which is it's just a little small you know
00:09:26
country two-lane road and I think people think that's maybe a larger more traveled area and it's just not so we
00:09:33
have discussed many possible people of interest on the show and with arrests like Chad
00:09:40
well and so many other arrests throughout the country and people having side by sides one thing that's tough
00:09:49
with all those individuals are they capable of committing the crimes yes but can you put them in Deli the day of the
00:09:57
murders but with your person of interest you can actually put them at the park the day of the murders yeah that's right
00:10:05
he was there he admitted he was there he was there he said he was with a female he actually was was the uh one of the
00:10:12
witnesses for the original sketch that was released some people refer to as Oldbridge guy uh to answer that question
00:10:19
yes he's he's the first one that I know of it that was admittedly there so your Person of Interest admits that he was
00:10:25
there and also admits that he has talked to law enforcement and he came forward and he is the reason for the first
00:10:31
sketch that has been released do you know if your Person of Interest was a part of any of the searches that day I
00:10:37
don't I don't know that he was part of uh any search I just know that he was there around the time of the murders and
00:10:44
he was in pretty CL close proximity to uh to the area that where the girls were found so the girls went missing on
00:10:51
February 13th but their bodies weren't found till February 14th yeah that's correct around noon on the 14th so just
00:10:57
to add a little clarity here uh in regards to the time frame that we're talking about we're talking about
00:11:02
February 13 2017 now liby and Abby were dropped off approximately 1:45 in the afternoon this
00:11:11
is according to Kelsey who dropped them off at the trail head and the Snapchat picture of Abby was posted at
00:11:22
207 p.m. on that day and it's believed based off of the evidence that we have that being the still picture which comes
00:11:32
from the video which was then released at a later date the still picture of bridge guy yeah correct it due to the
00:11:39
positioning of the sun uh what we can see in that video we can tell that the abduction took place between 2:20 p.m.
00:11:47
and 2:40 p.m. that afternoon so relatively quickly things are moving very fast the girls are dropped off and
00:11:54
less than an hour later they are abducted um less than a half an hour or later that picture is posted on Snapchat
00:12:01
of Abby it's kind of mindboggling how we have this perpetrator lurking waiting in the shadows if you
00:12:12
will looking for potential prey and it just so happens to line up with about the time that they're dropped off and
00:12:21
from my understanding ski and you can correct me if I'm I'm wrong that it's approximately about a half mile from the
00:12:27
trail head to the bridge itself self which two girls taking their time maybe they went a roundabout way there's two
00:12:34
different options to get you to that moan and high bridge that time lines up all those times really line up with
00:12:41
about how long it would take someone on foot to get to that bridge and when you say that this guy your guy has
00:12:49
admittedly his own words put him Place him at the crime scene at about the same time that the abduction and murders took
00:12:57
place and I don't want to be clear even though they're murdered at that location and left there they were
00:13:04
abducted I mean they were they were moved and coralled and directed by the killer where to go for what we know that
00:13:12
because we have audio evidence of that correct and we don't know for exactly what reasons but you're saying this guy
00:13:18
has placed himself there during this time frame and the other thing that's key to hone in on at this point too when
00:13:26
we're discussing times on that day is according to law enforcement they believe whatever took place because
00:13:34
again they're not telling us exactly what happened whatever took place was done and over with probably relatively
00:13:42
quickly but at least by 5:00 p.m that day yeah correct because that's what that's the time frame that they say that
00:13:48
uh the car was at the CPS building when at the 2019 press conference that they LED that off with that that they were
00:13:56
looking for the driver which which I thought was interesting of the vehicle that was parked there from 12 to 5 I
00:14:03
thought it was unusual they asked for the drive about the driver seems like maybe they know about what the who the
00:14:07
vehicle is and that's something that that we can get into a little bit but let me say a couple of things that I
00:14:12
think are important one thing one thing I've learned is that law enforcement and
00:14:16
a perpetrator have 180 degree opposite agendas and I'm not talking about just the simple fact that Law Enforcement
00:14:22
wants to catch the sky and the guy you know the perpetrator doesn't want to be caught how that relates to this case is
00:14:29
and it goes back to what you were talking about about the time is Law Enforcement wants to place somebody
00:14:34
there between under that bridge near that crime scene between about 2:30 and 3:30 that afternoon okay the perpetrator
00:14:43
wants to be anywhere else but under that bridge between 2:30 and 3:30 okay and that's something I think that that the
00:14:51
listeners should keep in mind as we as we go along here because there's been a ton of misinformation deflection
00:14:59
false information put out as we again as we talk about that you'll see some of that maybe people changing their time
00:15:05
frames of when they were there who they were with where they parked and things like that well it's hard to know because
00:15:11
we're not from that area we don't know how popular this park is it's a day where there's no school how many people
00:15:19
do you think are at the park during the time of the murders it's it's hard to say i' I I've I've identified Maybe six
00:15:29
or seven I know there's been I know there's been people who've said there were up to 50 people I don't buy that at
00:15:34
all I think there were just a few I've identified six or seven so people put the time frame of the murders in between
00:15:41
2:30 and let's say 3:30 but we know that because the girls weren't responding and
00:15:48
somebody was trying to pick them up and this uh miscommunication was would have started about 3:00 yeah I think I think
00:15:55
Libby's dad Derek had arrived and started started walking the trails around 3:00 just after and that was that
00:16:03
was about the time they they started realizing you know something was wrong Derek called Libby's phone at 311 that
00:16:09
afternoon and this is as he was getting close he's driving in a vehicle to go pick up the girls there was no set time
00:16:18
when they were dropped off what time they would be picked up it was a roundabout time right and the the
00:16:23
statement was or always has been that Derek would call Libby when he got close so they could meet him at the trail head
00:16:32
and we know that that call took place at 311 he's unable to get a hold of her she
00:16:38
doesn't answer the phone he then arrives shortly after that 311 phone call and starts to walk the trails looking for
00:16:45
the girls I think the one of the important things is is is that where he parked is an area called the mirrors lot
00:16:51
which is the same place that the girls were dropped off it's just a small area private area but uh the locals knew it
00:16:58
as a place to had easy access to the trails there the trail head like you said's right there so it's just a short
00:17:04
walk to the bridge and it's called the mirrors lot because the MIRS Family Farm is right across the street it's right
00:17:11
across the street exactly they may have owned portions of that additional land at one one time right and it's area area
00:17:18
that you can just get a few cars in at one time three or four five maybe Max so it's just a small area but the locals
00:17:26
knew about it well the importance of the just being a small location and like you
00:17:31
said it could only fit maybe five cars is that your Person of Interest claims that around 3:00 his car would have been
00:17:38
parked in that lot that's what time he said he arrived yeah and he said he started walking slowly down the trail
00:17:44
with a female but we haven't had any other eyewitness come forward and say that they saw your Person of Interest
00:17:51
walking with this female we have anybody come forward and say that they saw them
00:17:56
that's correct well that yeah that's correct that not not anybody that we that has said anything publicly I do
00:18:03
believe that that he was seen later on but but no no nobody has publicly said they saw him nobody's corroborated that
00:18:10
and what's also odd about this one claim that your Person of Interest made is the
00:18:15
time frame he would have run into possibly Derek or possibly flannel Sherk guy at the trail head around this time
00:18:25
period yeah he like I said when dere got there he started on walking on the on the trails he ran into an older man
00:18:33
older gentleman who's referred to as flannel shirt guy and asked him if if he had seen the girl two girls and he said
00:18:41
no but there's a couple arguing under the bridge so Derek took the other path I guess assuming that that was not who
00:18:48
he was looking for so so maybe the girls were on the other path one thing I've always wondered about here skip is
00:18:54
there's actually two Bridges right there's one that goes over the Indiana hoer Highway what's that the freedom
00:19:01
Bridge Freedom Bridge yes part of me wonders when he gets told by FSG flannel sh flannel shirt guy can do you have his
00:19:10
name in front of you I think we he's been identified I think we can just say his name last name is McCain McCain he
00:19:16
was in charge of the the trails system there correct so he's involved with the parks and wreck
00:19:23
or something of that nature but so he speaks with McCain and Kane says I I saw a couple arguing under the bridge I
00:19:32
think well I think you actually said I heard a couple arguing under the bridge and I'm with you it could mean one of
00:19:37
two things either he goes okay well that's not the people I'm looking for so I'll go this opposite way maybe he just
00:19:43
assumed the freedom Bridge rather than the moan and high bridge it's possible but McCain was coming from that from
00:19:49
that direction so I think the assumption is that he would had just been at the Bri at the monan High Bridge like I said
00:19:56
you know he he asked you know about two young girls you know somebody describing
00:20:00
a couple they heard would not be the same description so so he he you know he said he said no he hasn't seen them so
00:20:07
it it you know that part of it I think is fairly simple well in this case there's so much
00:20:12
information and I think there's some misinformation that's being put out by certain people and when you hear about
00:20:20
this eyewitness uh McCain that talked with Derek at the trail head and he says that
00:20:27
I heard a arguing couple roughly around 250 to 3:00 to me one of the things that
00:20:35
people are missing is that would be roughly at the time that Abby and Libby are making contact with Bridge guy and
00:20:45
we don't have the full audio tapes so we don't know and and we don't know if those audio tapes have the evidence on
00:20:52
there was there an argument was there did one of the girls start arguing with Bridge guy and if that is true then
00:21:02
around 3:00 McCain did not hear arguing couple he heard Bridge Guy arguing with Abby and Libby yeah I think I think
00:21:11
that's likely I think you one of the biggest questions that's that people have had in this case is you why didn't
00:21:16
anybody hear anything you know why didn't the girl scream why didn't anybody hear anything well maybe they
00:21:21
did you know maybe McCain uh heard something and and but but nobody's put that together like you just said so so
00:21:30
your Person of Interest we know that he was there he claims he was eyewitness he
00:21:36
claims he's the reason for the first sketch that was released he also claims that he enters the same parking lot that
00:21:45
Derek parked in roughly about 3:00 but then other times he has told sources and talked on the internet about
00:21:55
being a part of the arguing couple which would put him at the crime scene at 3:00
00:22:02
correct he also didn't come forward to law enforcement saying that he saw anybody like I mentioned he was the
00:22:07
witness to one of the witnesses to the first sketch until well after the uh video had been put out at least a week I
00:22:15
think that kind of asked the question you why did if you saw somebody he says he saw somebody dressed like BG was with
00:22:21
a scarf over his face if you saw if you saw somebody like that why didn't you come you know and you know two little
00:22:27
girls were murdered that day why didn't you come forward immediately you know and and he later recanted that uh
00:22:34
statement yeah I have a couple problems with this person of interest one you're at the park roughly around the time that
00:22:40
this family is looking for two missing girls there's no witness that says he stayed to help so what kind of person
00:22:48
are you what kind of canoe are you I think our listeners know what I'm getting at but on top of that you're
00:22:58
there's this you're claiming that the day these girls were murdered and you would have
00:23:03
known that the next day that you were at the park the same day these girls were murdered and you saw a suspicious person
00:23:10
you're not coming forward to law enforcement for 7even eight days well he he originally said he was with his
00:23:17
girlfriend okay he later changed that to a girl that and he never mentioned her name just uh told uh Apparently one of
00:23:25
the uh stories that was out was he was part of a cheating couple so that was the reason for maybe uh why was so
00:23:33
ambiguous about who you know who he was with was because he was saying he you know he was trying to keep it on the
00:23:39
download that he was with another girl well and that's really interesting because this person of interest he's
00:23:44
coming forward and saying look I'm the I'm the eyewitness I saw Bridge guy I am the reason for the first sketch that is
00:23:53
released we now know that law enforcement is saying hey don't that's that's sketches secondary essentially
00:24:00
saying we don't buy this eyewitness's account at one point saying well I was at the parking lot roughly the same time
00:24:08
Derek was there H but he didn't see me and at some point I was yeah I was with there with my
00:24:16
girlfriend uh now we know that's not to be true so then he has to then go on and
00:24:22
then tell people okay look I wasn't there with my girlfriend I was cheating on my girlfriend and so therefore you
00:24:28
know but I I was covering for that which a lot of times eyewitnesses come forward
00:24:34
and they lie to law enforcement and lie to the public because they were doing something bad that necessarily doesn't
00:24:42
make him a murder but my issue is we don't know who he claims he was with under that bridge key phrase there under
00:24:55
the bridge which by definition guys down the hill under the bridge anything under the bridge becomes a part
00:25:04
of the crime scene they found articles of clothing around that area under the bridge in the water so we have this
00:25:14
individual lying and and constantly changing his story but what does he do he puts himself at that crime scene and
00:25:22
I don't believe anybody saw arguing couple they just heard arguing couple arguing couple then equals Bridge Guy
00:25:30
arguing with Abby and Libby equals that's the murderer and he is putting himself in that position that location
00:25:40
arguing with somebody which we believe would be Abby and Libby and that puts him at the crime scene that makes him
00:25:49
bridg [Music] guy [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that [Music] so we're back talking with skip Janice
00:28:11
about his Person of Interest and how this person of interest has claimed he was eyewitness he saw BG he's the reason
00:28:21
for the first sketch that was released and that he was there with his girlfriend then changed his story to
00:28:30
that he was there with somebody he was cheating on his girlfriend with shows you the type of character this
00:28:35
individual is and on top of that he just constantly keeps changing his story he said he saw Bridge guy leaving going
00:28:44
toward Freedom Bridge around the same time that flannel shk guy and Derek would have been uh talking so they would
00:28:52
have had they would had been close to each other in proximity to each other at the time he said he saw him leaving
00:28:58
there he described him as like I said with the the clothes that BG was wearing seen in the video and also with a scarf
00:29:05
over his face again I can't get over the fact that if you're just a normal guy and maybe you don't want to come forward
00:29:11
right away because you're going to be caught cheating but you can tell law enforcement that and they don't have to
00:29:18
release that information to the public but you can tell your friends family and girlfriend hey by the way I was there
00:29:26
that day well why were you there oh well I was taking a lunch break or whatever reason
00:29:31
you have to come up with to tell your friends and family but you believe that you saw this
00:29:37
individual and you're waiting 7 days to come and talk to law enforcement it just
00:29:43
seems very suspicious it seems very shady it doesn't you know pass the sniff test if
00:29:51
you will well he said he he came forward after the video had been released and said that's the guy I saw that day yeah
00:29:59
so when exactly is this photo or video released after the crime they released the video I think two or three days
00:30:09
after the murders or the photo of photo taken from the video photo yeah yeah the
00:30:14
still photo was released a few days afterwards it wasn't until that 2019 press conference that we get the
00:30:20
video right and let's be clear about one thing the younger sketch the second sketch that was released in 2019 was
00:30:29
actually created 3 or 4 days after the murders that was actually the F the the other the the old uh Bridge guy sketch
00:30:36
was done was not released until July of 2017 so it was five months before the first sketch was released yet they had
00:30:45
the sketch of the younger guy three or four days after the murders so the second sketch that was released they had
00:30:52
pretty quickly but for some reason this eyewitness comes forward seven or eight days after the murders gives his account
00:31:02
and they go with his sketch at least yeah a week later and saying that that was the guy he it came after the uh uh
00:31:12
picture was or the photo was was shown on television he said that's the guy I saw again I'm just curious why you
00:31:18
wouldn't come if you saw a suspicious guy there close to where two girls were killed why you wouldn't come forward
00:31:23
immediately let's pretend that DP is Bridge guy for a minute okay he's coming forward now because he has an out that
00:31:31
that sketch is his out right he doesn't want to come forward before like you were getting to that oh I don't want to
00:31:39
come forward because they can identify me if I was there right and so he he sees the sketch it's not doesn't appear
00:31:48
to be him to him so DP comes forward and says yep I I would like to second that I
00:31:55
saw that person I was was there that day and saw that person there as well I yeah
00:32:00
he actually he saw the video he saw the video or the P the photo not the sketch I think he became aware of the sketch
00:32:06
I've spoken with person friend of mine locally whose family has a brother who's in law enforcement that I think is a is
00:32:13
an incredible source and he told me that a lot of local people knew about this there was a second sketch they didn't
00:32:20
know what it looked like obviously early but they knew very early on that there was a second sketch I think I think the
00:32:25
time how the timing works is he came after the second sketch had been created uh hadn't been released yet but the
00:32:32
second sketch had been created and that's when he he came forward the second sketch that was actually released
00:32:38
is actually the first sketch that they created correct but how is law enforcement getting that information for
00:32:46
the second sketch that was released from a witness a witness that saw something needed to be reported that day and Skip
00:32:54
correct me if I'm wrong it's been my understanding that the second sketch released is based off of eyewitness
00:33:02
statements description right and the first sketch that was released was based off of the still photo then later video
00:33:12
evidence uh and it was all well a lot of people believe that the law enforcement's uh take on it is that it
00:33:18
was it was created by multiple Witnesses okay so both of the sketches or law enforcement says both of the sketches
00:33:25
were were created based on uh witness testimony I I agree with you though I think that the first sketch was had the
00:33:32
the photo and video had some influence on it and your Person of Interest which we are calling DP I don't know if you
00:33:39
guys picked up on the fact that Nick called the person of interest DP we're calling him DP for legal reasons
00:33:47
obviously and for safety reasons for himself but he came forward and was telling people online he was responsible
00:33:54
for the first sketch that was released that's correct yeah again I think that's a little bit
00:33:59
unusual that you know law enforcement usually insists that uh the witnesses don't say anything in cases like this he
00:34:07
certainly injected himself into the case by speaking on social media kind of getting a story out there but both of
00:34:14
his stories put him with another person at the trails that day right so where's this other person right I mean
00:34:24
if I'm law enforcement that's my first thing I'm going okay DP was there and in story a he's with so and so and in story
00:34:33
B he's with someone else who are these people and do they exist well again I think I think the reason for the change
00:34:41
of the story was that he was with another girl and didn't want that information getting out I think that was
00:34:47
the excuse to get to the Second Story which was the the the cheating girl yeah I think that that probably raised a red
00:34:54
flag of some some sorts you know but he was he was considered a witness they thought that um you know law enforcement
00:35:00
seeks Witnesses they know they need Witnesses and this guy came forward voluntarily so they assumed he was uh
00:35:07
said he and described something that looked like what they were seeing on video so they had no reason not to
00:35:12
believe him okay so this DP guy's there and he's with this girl that he's cheating on his girlfriend with I mean
00:35:20
that's pretty scumbag anyways but we don't have this other girl that he was cheating on his girlfriend with coming
00:35:28
forward and saying hey I was there with DP and the other thing about it too is he's saying he was arguing with this
00:35:35
girl that he was with under the bridge again putting himself and putting whoever this girl he was with if there
00:35:43
was even a girl there with him under the bridge again under the bridge you have to understand that under the bridge or
00:35:51
on the other side of the bridge is all a part of the crime scene so he would be saying Not only was I cheating with this
00:35:58
girl but she was over at the crime scene with me about the same time that the killer would have been making contact
00:36:05
with Abby and Libby but yet yet they didn't see anything again he wasn't seen by anybody except one person a girl
00:36:13
named Cheyenne Engles and she's the only one there that has corroborated seeing him do we know where Cheyenne says she
00:36:20
saw she never said where exactly where she saw him she said that she her story and I'll be kind of Frank here I don't I
00:36:27
haven't found anything that she said to be truthful she originally said she got there at 350 changed her story to she
00:36:33
got there at 250 she showed a picture of uh from the day says that she said she went there to take pictures she shows a
00:36:41
picture and it's taken around 3:00 of the bridge she never said you know she saw what time she saw him just that she
00:36:49
saw a heterosexual couple and also ran into a friend of her who she said she didn't know was going
00:36:58
to be there well the biggest point about DP being a person of interest is he was
00:37:04
at the park that day claims to be in the vicinity of the bridge and has changed his story multiple times now you have
00:37:12
Cheyenne that is eyewitnessed to DP being there but she's constantly changing her story as well it's very
00:37:21
very suspicious I think I think there are four I think there are four people involved in in involved in that equation
00:37:27
I think DP Cheyenne Cheryl and a girl named Shelby and I think they that one of them has has something to do with a
00:37:35
car that was parked at the CPS building that law enforcement inquired about so who is this Shelby she's a friend of uh
00:37:43
all they're all friends um she I know she went to law enforcement to talk to tell them kind of straighten out the
00:37:50
vehicle situation I think there was a lot of confusion about where everybody parked what time everybody got there
00:37:56
whose cars were there I think she went and told him that you know her yes her car was there uh and here's how it got
00:38:02
there I I don't think no I think again nobody saw her nobody saw DP I don't have any reason to believe she was there
00:38:10
because you know there's no there's nobody corroborating the story that she was there I'm not sure she she ever said
00:38:15
she was there yeah she she and Cheyenne are friends because they were married to
00:38:20
well well one was married to uh two brothers one was married and one was uh had a child with the other brother so
00:38:27
they they were friends that way but does Cheyenne ever say when she saw Cheryl she says she says that Cheryl got there
00:38:34
she Shane says she got there about 250 she said that Cheryl got there about 230 uh she didn't say exactly what point
00:38:41
she ran into him or ran into her I'm sorry so other than so we're going to exclude Shelby because we don't believe
00:38:51
that she was there but other than Cheyenne and Cheryl do we have anybody we don't know that Cheryl was there
00:38:58
either right but do we have anybody at the park seeing DP that day no nobody saw DP except
00:39:10
Cheyenne okay but nobody saw Cheyenne nobody saw Cheryl nobody saw Shelby they all they all were there at the park in
00:39:18
the in the same uh time frame that that several other people were there including FSG but nobody saw any of them
00:39:26
I think again I think the time the the timeline and the vehicles are the critical part of the case I think it's
00:39:35
likely law enforcement knows or has a particular POI Person of Interest and I think that that was probably gathered
00:39:43
from those two things the timelines never made sense amongst any of the witnesses or any of the people that were
00:39:50
there and neither has the vehicle situation so you're telling me that Cheyenne says I saw DP
00:39:57
at the park but we don't know what time she's claiming she saw him is she saying
00:40:02
that he was with somebody or alone she was saying he was with somebody that was part of the they were part of the
00:40:08
heterosexual couple as how she described it but the person that she's saying he was with is this person X yes that's
00:40:16
what makes this person so interesting to me is because none of the stories line up none of the stories make any sense so
00:40:25
if you're having a hard time following the story well don't blame you because their stories just don't line up but
00:40:33
Cheyenne also said that she saw dp's car in which parking lot uh it was parked I
00:40:38
believe at the mir's lot but there's another eyewitness that disputes this claim yeah there was an eyewitness that
00:40:45
drove by around 3:00 and said that she only saw two cars if all the people who were there say they were there all the
00:40:52
people that say they were there actually were there then there would been a lot more than two cars cuz cuz we know FSG
00:40:57
was there and possibly parked there um we know Derek was parked there yeah and Derek got there and parked there around
00:41:03
just after three o'clock so and it's not clear even where Cheyenne parked right yeah and uh she because there's there's
00:41:13
reason to question that if she was even there that day absolutely there she as a
00:41:18
matter of fact she says she leaves at 4:00 and as she's leaving she notices a man who she later finds or realizes is
00:41:27
Derek uh sitting in the parking lot with another person in the in the car doing what looks like a drug deal well Derek
00:41:36
wasn't with anybody that day okay terara later came and you came but she didn't arrive till 4:10 so how did how did
00:41:45
Cheyenne see see anybody in the car as a matter of fact when when Tara got there
00:41:50
she says that Derek jumped in the car with her so how did Cheyenne see Derek doing what looked like a drug deal at
00:41:56
4:00 it's possible that her her time frame is just off right but did she got he got in he got in the other car did
00:42:03
she identified Derek as being Derek or just some guy she said originally she changed it later on to real when she
00:42:10
realized it was Derek or is that's the way she put it she changed she said it was Derek I mean come on people how many
00:42:16
times are you going to keep changing your story again like again that just goes to part of the the stories and how
00:42:23
they've changed I understand people's recollection but a lot of this seems a lot more than
00:42:29
that than just you know misinterpreting times and things like that she the reason you know she
00:42:36
she knew she got there because at 250 because she remembers a robo call she got and she remembers leaving at 4:00
00:42:43
because she didn't have good enough uh Sal service to upload the picture to Snapchat that she took and she did that
00:42:52
about 10 minutes before 4 so she knew her times were right or at least she said she knew her times were right well
00:42:59
this is a small town and I think some of this information was getting leaked or at least some rumors were happening it
00:43:05
sounds to me like Cheyenne is having one story and then once she finds out well no Derek was in that area at that time
00:43:14
then she comes back and goes oh it just wasn't some man that I saw it was Derek again we have a eyewitness that is
00:43:23
changing his story that puts himself at the scene of the crime roughly around the time of the murders doesn't come
00:43:30
forward right away knows the girls uh I believe at some point people said he was
00:43:38
following one of them on Facebook possibly could have been following them on Snapchat said that he rode the bus
00:43:44
with them that they lived you know a couple miles away so he knew the victims but again their stories keep changing
00:43:51
and how suspicious is that then Cheyenne says that she sees dp's car at the other
00:43:58
parking lot but it seems like he would have been parked at the CPS building and waiting for the girls I think it's
00:44:05
possible yeah kind I think I think if you if you if you go by what law enforcement says that the car parked at
00:44:11
the CPS building could have possibly been there from as early as 12 o'clock I think uh it seems likely I don't think
00:44:18
the 12 I don't think that the 12 to5 I think that's just giv them some leeway but I think they know that uh he was
00:44:25
probably there longer than than what what he said so DP is changing his story constantly Cheyenne is changing her
00:44:34
story she is the only one that claims to see his car there we have other credible
00:44:39
eyewitnesses that don't see his car so that's very suspicious why would you be driving somebody else's car to the park
00:44:47
that day maybe because you didn't want your car to be seen because maybe you're going to do something bad possibly again
00:44:54
that go that goes back to you know law enforcement saying in the 2019 press conference that they were looking for
00:45:00
the driver of a vehicle that tells that tells me it's likely that it was uh whoever they were
00:45:08
whoever they're trying to find information of was driving a vehicle that wasn't his a borrowed vehicle but
00:45:13
we also believe that there was an eyewitness that would have saw the driver of that vehicle yeah I think I
00:45:19
think that uh yeah obviously there was there was a witness that saw there was a witness that saw
00:45:25
somebody that that that ends up being the second sketch um I think there's possibility that that wi is the same
00:45:32
person who saw the car uh as as BG was exiting the park now even though sketch one and sketch 2 they're Worlds Apart
00:45:44
but there are some similarities but your Person of Interest DP matches both of these which is very
00:45:53
concerning and the second sketch that was a release of the younger individual he
00:46:00
matches he matches that sketch more than any other person of interest I've seen match a sketch now hopefully that gets
00:46:08
out to the internet and people can make their own predictions and own assumptions on that well let me ask you
00:46:16
this if like we mentioned earlier a lot of locals knew that there was a second sketch early on if you had killed some
00:46:24
two people and you had gotten you had gotten win that there was another there was a sketch out there I mean you
00:46:31
obious or no this is this point I'm talking about the sketch being done three or four days later because he
00:46:36
didn't come forward till after that you got no no what I'm saying is if you killed somebody and you found out law
00:46:42
enforcement didn't just have this photo that they released but they also have a sketch what you're saying exactly yeah
00:46:49
you would think you had been seen right I mean you you know so that's certainly an incentive to come
00:46:56
forward to explain your explain your whereabouts and why you were there that day you waited a week to come forward or
00:47:02
at least a week why you know why why did you do that first of all and secondly uh
00:47:08
uh is that is that the is that the reason you know law enforcement has has thought that this person is following
00:47:13
the case and and getting information you want to know what we know and so uh I think it's likely that somebody was
00:47:20
sharing information with him or he had access to that and uh and that's why he came forward well and you also after
00:47:27
you're doing a lot of your research and you're looking into DP you notice that a
00:47:32
lot of the comments that the police officers are making or law enforcement is making about their suspect or when
00:47:38
they talking to the killer that it really applies to the research and the misinformation that they got from these
00:47:47
eyewitnesses early on they talk about we believe that we were lied to early on or
00:47:53
that we didn't identify this person correct directly and so to have the confidence that he had to go into
00:48:04
law enforcement and say hey look I was there I was an eyewitness I saw BG and I think the small town component comes in
00:48:11
here because they believed him because they said well look look at him look at his family and look at what they've done
00:48:18
in the community this is a kid that we can trust and I think they bought whatever story he was selling
00:48:33
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