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discover more arts and culture in Denver experience the share show at the bule theater May 3rd through 5th celebrate
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Museum May 5th through August 11th it's time to do more Denver start planning your art packed Adventures at visit
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denver.com [Music] [Music] more [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:46
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who knows that the best bar in the 614 is behind Home Plate
00:01:54
at Huntington Park here is the captain b b b b swing B it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
00:02:04
thanks for telling a [Music] friend once again we are featuring Huggins he ofis by the good folks over
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Helen blazes down in Florida this is a Bavarian staple that comes with a highly carbonated yeast forward medium body and
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an intense aromatics of banana and clove garage gra 3 and 1/2 bottle caps out of
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five and how about a big shout out to our friend Zack aan in Cave Spring Georgia and here's a shout out to Mike
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rower from Ohio but living it up and Milani Hawaii thanks to everyone for contributing to this week's beer fund
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Aloha yeah BW R you in beer run you need some bonus content of course you do go over to patreon and sign up for True
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Crime garage bonus content or if you're listening on the Apple podcast app just hit subscribe can't thank you enough for
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supporting this little tiny garage ship onwards and upwards that's enough of the
00:03:11
business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:24
[Music] crime with the Florida van ire John Brennan crutchley locked up and held
00:03:35
Behind Bars he is now starting his 25-year sentence as we have discussed so with him locked away what I'd like to do
00:03:45
now is talk about and see if we can find some other victims of John crutchley because remember we have serial killer
00:03:55
FBI agent expert Robert wrestler who takes a quick look at this scenario he reviews all of the crime scene photos
00:04:05
reviews all the evidence speaks with detectives talks with the judge and the prosecutor and he says I believe and my
00:04:12
expert opinion is this I believe this guy has killed before and I believe that he would do it again right so let's
00:04:20
cross reference some of the potential other victims of John cretchley here with maybe even using his timeline a
00:04:27
little to see if anything shakes loose and keep keep in mind that there were six unidentified female murder victims
00:04:35
that were found between January 1st 1985 and December 31st 1985 found all within
00:04:44
a six- mile radius of John crutchley home so the Florida vampire was in jail he was in a jail cell for only 10 of the
00:04:54
365 days of that year Florida law enforcement officials have placed the number of possible crutchley victims
00:05:02
quite high so some of them are saying the number may be as high as 32 victims wow 12 in brever County where he lived
00:05:12
brever County Florida and 20 potential victims out of state saying wherever crutchley lived and worked they have
00:05:20
found bodies that fit what serial killer experts say would fit the victimology that he desired mhm but what we know
00:05:30
as garage guys know is that crutchley has never been charged in a single murder now the most conservative
00:05:36
investigators say he killed at least four women others say the number of possible homicide victims could be more
00:05:43
than two dozen the victims are all thought to be young women slain during violent sexual encounters with John
00:05:51
cretchley detectives suspect him of kidnapping transient and hitchhikers to reach his quote ultimate dream this was
00:06:01
John Brennan crutchley expression for sex ending in death there was a graphic in the Florida Today
00:06:09
newspaper back in the day showing the east coast of the United States and possible John crutchley victims we said
00:06:18
earlier Florida police and outside agencies thought the number could be as high as 32 this graphic list 26 possible
00:06:25
crutchley victims so we'll start at the top of this graphic and it reads crutch ley's path John crutchley possible
00:06:34
victims from Fairfax timeline listed by name and date of death disappearance or discovery of the remains and the first
00:06:43
location that they point to is Pennsylvania and the victim here is unidentified with no date given now once
00:06:52
we get to Maryland which is next in line on this list we have multiple victims here
00:07:02
I believe it's 11 that is listed 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 so we have 11 victims here that
00:07:15
are list W he can count yeah as slow as that was that was a man counting a grown
00:07:22
man counting wow we're putting out a great podcast I want to yeah next week we'll
00:07:29
do the alphabet I want to skip over Maryland we're go let's Circle back to Maryland
00:07:36
here okay so Pennsylvania the the victim that they think could be linked to crutchley is unidentified there's no
00:07:42
date given so there's nothing really to discuss there we can't sort out if we think he is the likely perpetrator if we
00:07:48
don't know the victim's name nor the the date of any of the the information so next we have
00:07:55
Virginia Deborah Fitz John was killed in January of 1977 and we'll go through her case in
00:08:04
depth before we wrap up this week but also in Virginia we have two other Virginia homicides listed on this
00:08:12
graphic here referred to as Norfolk one and Norfolk 2 m now we know here in the garage that those two Norfolk victims
00:08:23
are known to be Pamela an Kimu a 23-year-old Navy messenger and Carol an molar a 21-year-old Navy clerk both
00:08:34
women were slain at the Norfolk Naval Air Station in 1982 and then in 1983 those are the two cases that we
00:08:43
discussed last week John Brennan crutchley was a suspect in both of those murders but not
00:08:49
until after he was arrested in Florida in 1985 Navy detectives identified crutchley as a suspect in
00:08:58
1987 when investigators placed him in the area at the time of the women's deaths so they state that they believe
00:09:06
that he was living and working in the area from approximately 1979 to 1983 remember we know that he took the
00:09:13
job in June of 1983 so he would have been present if his work history is the determining Factor on when he moved from
00:09:24
Virginia to or the Virginia area to Florida right then he would have been in Virginia during the time that both of
00:09:33
these murders were committed now while there he worked as a defense contractor for
00:09:40
TRW holding a top secret security clearance that gave him access to restricted military bases including the
00:09:47
Norfolk Naval Air Station but if you listen to last week's episodes you already know that we know
00:09:55
that he did not kill Pamela and Kimber right because DNA proved that it was somebody else
00:10:04
exactly but we have him being arrested and we have his DNA so we should be able to test that in the other crime I'm
00:10:12
hoping that they have his DNA remember he he goes to prison in 1985 yeah and I don't I every state is
00:10:21
different but in Ohio we didn't start collecting DNA from felons until 2010 I wouldn't be that hard to send somebody
00:10:30
in say hey suck my blood and then get his DNA boom match now besides those Virginia
00:10:40
slangs Sheriff's detectives were actively investigating crutchley in several cases in Bard
00:10:49
County one is Patty felinski 29 years old a Titusville woman who was last seen hitchhiking in Mims Florida on March
00:10:58
15th 1985 remember she's the one that they find her ID in pictures of her son in
00:11:08
his office yeah she's most likely a victim the other one that they were openly and actively investigating
00:11:17
crutchley for was a woman named Kimberly Anne Walker who was 21 years old she was
00:11:23
from Vero Beach whose bones were found near US1 in Malibar January 28th 1985 and then there's another woman who
00:11:34
was unidentified her skeletal remains were found in the same location that Kimberly
00:11:41
and Walker's remains were found it becomes almost a easier victim in the sense of some of these hitchhikers are
00:11:51
living a nomadic life so their family especially at that time period because it's just harder to communic communicate
00:11:59
or stay in constant communication with your loved ones if they're traveling or living that nomadic
00:12:06
life so I think that's why you see these serial killers try to prey on these these types of victims that is exactly
00:12:15
right there captain now that victim list that graphic that list was compiled in 1989 by taskforce member there there was
00:12:25
a John crutchley task force that was assembled and this was one of the members of the task force his name is
00:12:31
Andy Casey he I think they called their research The Vampire Diaries He compiled
00:12:38
this list along with several other police agencies so they listed 26 possible crutchley victims there but
00:12:46
years later we're going to get some clarification on some of those unsolved murders that were listed so although
00:12:53
crutchley long has been a suspect in many of the Florida and Virginia cases the Maryland slangs the experts later
00:13:02
would say don't seem to fit the pattern so and we see this from time to time right when when a when a unknown
00:13:11
serial killer is then identified located and arrested and now all of a sudden everybody's kind of shuffling and
00:13:18
scurrying about trying to connect every unsolved homicide to this person in the area and this guy moved around to
00:13:26
several different areas so we're looking basically up and down the whole East Coast what we
00:13:33
get captain is Montgomery County Maryland police this is a Washington suburb they
00:13:40
go on record saying that they strongly doubt that crutchley was involved in five of the deaths that were listed on
00:13:48
that timeline they refer to that victim list as the Fairfax timeline right just in case you hear me say that
00:13:55
term according to John crutch 's attorney he says that police theorized that crutchley killed young women that
00:14:04
he picked up hitchhiking by draining their blood after raping them and then dismembering them the problem with with
00:14:10
some of these victims on the Maryland thing they don't really fit the victimology at all so one of them was
00:14:17
the 1982 Maryland victim named ke Milford well this was actually a 67y old man killed by a gunshot wound to the
00:14:27
stomach so while they're putting together this list years later they're going well we got to kind of look at
00:14:32
this differently a lot of these names we understand that you put this together as a matter of haste but let's
00:14:41
let's let cooler heads prevail here right and really analyze these and see what we put the percentage the
00:14:49
likelihood that he killed these now the authorities in Maryland go on to explain
00:14:55
we don't even know how some of these names got onto your Fairfax timeline list because three of the Maryland
00:15:01
victims were actually killed months after crutchley had moved out of the area so they're saying one doesn't fit
00:15:09
the victimology three he he would have had to drive back home months after he had already moved down to Florida to to
00:15:17
have killed these three women and then in the long run let's fast forward to a couple more years because that list was
00:15:24
put together in what did we say 89 yeah but that's not out of the realm of possibility though right it's not but
00:15:31
but we also don't know what other information they have right so like like for example we know that that even
00:15:39
though she's not identified by name on here we know one of these potential crutchley victims is Pamela an Kimu but
00:15:47
we now know by science and because somebody else is locked up for life that he did not kill her right and so what I
00:15:56
think that we should do is point out here that there there's a likelihood that they have information to suggest
00:16:02
that he was not involved like one list if you look at potential Crush crutchley victims not only includes Pamela and
00:16:10
kimw but it also includes the lion sisters who we now know were killed by somebody else so a lot of these list I
00:16:18
believe were put together in a rather quick fashion and they didn't have time to
00:16:25
really sort it out mhm so what what we get here Captain is Montgomery County Maryland police say years later
00:16:35
crutchley has been ruled out as a suspect in all of the listed deaths in that state victims are listed by name
00:16:43
and date of death and L noted otherwise on that list and although the timeline list 11 so let's go ahead and get rid of
00:16:50
all those Maryland murders of the 26 that they suspected uh of 26 total throughout different states
00:16:59
we can now remove 11 of those so now we're down to oh we're not only counting on the show guess what we're going to do
00:17:06
a little bit of math for you too oh great it's a it's it's a show where you get everything it just really is and I
00:17:13
you know what I listened to a portion of last week's show math not so great for me sometimes not so great or pronouncing
00:17:20
city names or right there we go uh I or no offense but last week I think you called them Navy ladies and I I so badly
00:17:30
just wanted to say they are saor are they are Sailors they are officers in the Navy let's have a little more
00:17:38
respect for them well I was I was trying to call them I was going out of my way to call them ladies cuz I had referred
00:17:44
to them as Sailors otherwise you at other times so change up look I I know you lady is a term that you earn lady is
00:17:54
the term that you earn well anyways I know you better than most and I and I know um your respect
00:18:02
for the victims is of the highest standard and and I and I have a lot of respect for you because of that well on
00:18:09
that same list the 26 that we're discussing so push away 11 of them already now that math would tell me 15
00:18:17
is what we're down to and we get the brev county sheriff Jake Miller who says a couple years later that although this
00:18:26
list includes 11 homicides Ides from our County he's telling us we've reviewed the evidence we we know what we're
00:18:34
looking at here and crutchley is really only a suspect in six of the cases so now you can get rid of another five so
00:18:41
at best if if this list is accurate and is telling us that how many potential victims we have here you can get rid of
00:18:51
Pamela and kimw you can get rid of all the victims from Maryland and you can reduce the number in Florida from 11 to
00:18:58
5 so that whittles down that 26 very quickly but I think some of it is when we're telling these stories or people
00:19:08
are retelling the story they start sensationalizing these killers and at the end of the day these these guys are
00:19:16
scumbag losers I think that it's human behav I think it's just natural right it's it's human behavior because I think
00:19:24
when you go oh my word this guy is capable we we're proof positive we know for sure
00:19:32
this guy is capable of doing something that many many of us are not capable of I think that you you want it to you want
00:19:41
to go you know what there can't be that many bad guys out there there can't be many guys out there like this he has to
00:19:48
be responsible for a lot of this murder in Mayhem so what what are they doing about it you know it's one thing to put
00:19:55
make a list is another thing to put it in the newspaper talk about it on the news
00:20:00
but what are the authorities doing about it well down in Florida they were calling this John Brennan crutchley case
00:20:10
The NeverEnding investigation that's because putting John Brennan crutchley behind bars in 1986 didn't stop
00:20:17
investigators in brever County and in the state of Virginia from attempting to find his other victims they wanted to
00:20:24
prove that he was in fact a killer they wanted to lock him up for good lock him up and throw away the key and we already
00:20:32
pointed out that Robert wrestler an FBI expert on serial killers who has consulted with authorities on the
00:20:38
crutchley case he said he believed that this dude was a serial killer and probably had several victims and maybe
00:20:46
even had them in different states so they're running investigations on this guy periodically captain from 1985 when
00:20:54
he first pops onto their radar with that arrest in Florida through 1996 on and off and
00:21:01
these investigations are continuing in Florida and in other states as well most of these investigative efforts from my
00:21:09
understanding centered on hoping to locate the bodies of possible victims and finding
00:21:18
trophies this would be victim's belongings such as identification cards and jewelry right and they they believe
00:21:25
that that is the remember what the one Detective said he probably got rid of a bunch of evidence but for whatever
00:21:32
reason he could not get rid of that driver's license of his rape victim and so they were hoping that he
00:21:39
would have shown that in other cases with other victims and remember they found a lot of women's jewelry in the
00:21:47
house and who knows what he got rid of in that trash bag now when they interview his wife his wife says no no
00:21:53
no that's all my jewelry well yeah I don't I'd like to see receipts lady yeah and this has becomes
00:22:01
a problem also with the investigation cuz what what do we know about the confirmed victim right the confirmed
00:22:09
attack the fir the confirmed Abduction the confirmed rape his family was gone so if she was
00:22:17
an actual decent human being she could then work with law enforcement and say hey I can tell you the times that I was
00:22:24
gone I can tell you the times I went to visit people and so so those dates could
00:22:30
correlate maybe better with some of these possible victims or hey I can tell you not only when I was gone but I can
00:22:39
give you some good indication of his travel habits and his whereabouts well during the course of this these ongoing
00:22:48
investigations they search BEC keep in mind at least one of the victims and I believe maybe in a couple of cases they
00:22:56
think that they are still looking for the Ms because Patty valinsky they found her identification card she's been
00:23:05
missing so they're hoping to find her they have something directly tying crutchley to her they just need sorry
00:23:15
for to be crude here they just need to find her body right so they're searching Malibar
00:23:23
cemeteries the yard of John cretchley Malibar home remember we said it was 2.7 Acres that
00:23:32
was the scene of at least four excavations I think authorities thought that they would find her buried
00:23:40
there and then when they went back even after these excavations they kept going back and taking core samples throughout
00:23:47
the yard to see if that they could hit on anything that could be either a body or find evidence that crutchley may have
00:23:53
buried right the house was searched again with the permission of new new owners after his wife and kid moved out
00:24:01
and they even punched holes in the walls so they could look inside the walls a shed behind the house was demolished and
00:24:10
the concrete pad was torn out kadab dog searched a shopping center on US 192 in Melbourne
00:24:19
where a former inmate said crutchley had disposed of a body but they didn't find
00:24:26
anything the detectives from Florida are on record saying that they had at one time at least 16 boxes of
00:24:36
evidence and some of that evidence included the hard drive from crutch ley's computer and dozens of computer
00:24:42
disc and tapes we also know that we have the detective on record stating that one
00:24:49
mistake that he does know that they made is they did not collect his computer right away keep in mind it's it's
00:24:56
1985 you go back that most people did not have a computer I don't know that the in back then a lot
00:25:03
of detectives did not work on a computer either and so they may not have just had
00:25:09
that Insight of oh this is this would be a valuable thing to collect and figure out how to go through it later they did
00:25:17
eventually collect it Captain but they didn't collect it then that night on the 22nd when they or I should say the 23rd
00:25:24
because it was 2: in the morning when they made the arrest insert his house the first time and we do know that he
00:25:30
got out for 4 weeks after posting Bond so he has a computer at his office as well at some point the Harris
00:25:39
Corporation turns over his computer to the police and so they're going through dozens of computer disc remember those
00:25:49
things and they're examining all of this they say that detectives found eventually found that there had been a
00:25:55
bunch of files that were erased and then some of the files that remained on these
00:26:00
computers so when we talk about this Captain I want to be clear they don't detail enough the information for us to
00:26:07
know what was found on his home computer versus what was found on his office computer but the we're talking in
00:26:14
generalities right here so between these two computers they're saying we found files that had been
00:26:20
erased we're finding other files that remained but they were coded the FBI technicians believe that while they were
00:26:29
not able to recover everything they do believe that they re that they recovered quote most of the data that was erased
00:26:37
from the computer's hard drives right then in 1988 keep in mind he's been locked up
00:26:43
for two years now the arrest happened in late 85 two members of the crutchley task force they they have NASA security
00:26:52
specialist who helped to break the coded files detective Bob letho says that he believed that it took seven days with
00:27:04
these guys going at it 24 hours a day to break these codes but so they this this is like a
00:27:12
roller coaster ride can you imagine like the the hard work and effort that has to
00:27:17
be put into this and you're probably saying we don't even know if we're going to be able to break these codes right
00:27:22
but then when you do break them you're like ah got him oh we got him but unfortunately what they learn is that
00:27:30
the files only contain an assortment of text files and games including a Dungeons and Dragons type game that
00:27:37
crutchley was designing police tried several times to interview crutchley in prison he denied them so they decided to
00:27:45
interview prison inmates that would know him to learn a little bit more about John crutchley the prison interviews
00:27:52
while not providing any new investigative leads did shed some light on cr's Life Behind Bars although
00:28:01
officials called crutchley a hardworking model prisoner the inmates claimed that
00:28:08
crutchley was into Satanism and enjoyed reading books about gory murders and serial killers while all of these
00:28:15
investigations are going many of which the police both in Florida and elsewhere were Not So Silent about there being
00:28:23
rumor over the years that they were close to another plea deal with John crutchley this plea deal would have put
00:28:32
him behind bars for the rest of his life and it would have convicted him of several
00:28:45
murders from amazing five-bedroom two-story homes to Beautiful two-bedrooms with office space celebrity
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hommes has the perfect home for you our homes come with amazing features faulted
00:28:55
ceilings sprinkler systems quartz counter tops designer light packages and more plus celebrity homes is proud to
00:29:02
offer our new exclusive closing package get a refrigerator washer dryer garage door opener instant access to Wi-Fi
00:29:08
professionally installed blinds and up to $3,000 towards closing costs yes it's all included visit celebrity homes
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omaha.com today discover more arts and culture in Denver experience the share show at the
00:29:24
bule theater May 3rd through 5th celebrate the Cinco de bio festival at Civic Center Park May 4th and 5th and
00:29:31
immerse yourself in biophilia at the Denver Art Museum May 5th through August 11th it's time to do more Denver start
00:29:41
planning your art packed Adventures at visit denver.com more everyone loves a good family
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on IOS and Android [Music] all right we are back onwards and upwards cheers to you and a quick
00:31:09
reminder this week on off the Record subscribe on patreon or apple the colonel gives the captain The Men's
00:31:19
Journal interview so you don't want to miss that so what we like to call fascinating stuff if everything goes
00:31:26
according to plan that will be what captain four back-to-back episodes of off the Record
00:31:34
four weeks in a row yeah a little extra love little extra love for the ones that
00:31:38
we love so much yes this plea bargain thing turns into a whole debacle and I don't even know Captain if there's
00:31:48
somebody to blame or if everybody tried their damned this and it just kind of fell through right so according to an
00:31:55
attorney this was crutch ley's defense attorney it was openly discussed that a deal was in the workings that crutchley
00:32:05
would plead guilty to between three and six homicides and I believe all of them now
00:32:12
when we say three to six I don't know if that if that number changes or the statement changes but the way that it's
00:32:19
been reported is he was willing to plead guilty to three to up to six homicides in brever County Florida
00:32:28
in return what crutchley wanted was to receive life in prison and not face the death penalty he did not want to go to
00:32:37
the electric chair his defense attorney then later goes on record stating that oh this was rejected by the state we
00:32:45
were all prepared to plead guilty to this and give them answers in some of these unsolved
00:32:52
homicides and in some of the information states that he was willing to lead them
00:32:57
to to bodies or to lead them to where he had buried some bodies right why why do
00:33:04
you think the state would turn down this deal I don't I don't know and that's why
00:33:08
I say I I don't know that there's any blame to give here or because it it it doesn't make any sense to me because you
00:33:17
have a defense attorney saying yeah we were willing to agree to this you have the
00:33:24
detective at least one of them who was in charge of many of these investigations who was saying we wanted
00:33:30
to take that deal and we had information backing up that he had committed some of
00:33:36
those homicides his defense attorney goes on record saying that the the state is the
00:33:42
one that denied it and what we have here though but we have the so we have the brev County
00:33:49
prosecutor and that's not his exact title but his last name is wolfinger and Sheriff Jack Jake Miller excuse me they
00:33:59
said that there was never a formal offer to be accepted or rejected so while one side is saying one
00:34:09
thing they're saying they're not saying we didn't have those talks they're not saying we didn't explore that they're
00:34:15
just saying there was never a formal offer for us to accept or to reject and who knows maybe they were in talks and
00:34:25
then crutchley gets cold feet and says Nope not going to do it changeed my mind here's the problem
00:34:31
though yeah we talk about this all the time you you love how I'm starting to say here's the problem like like we
00:34:39
haven't gone through like three dozen problems already the the episode started off with some problems you you're not
00:34:46
allowed to kidnap exactly assault and try to murder people that's that's the first problem
00:34:55
here really truly the only problem as far as this story is concerned is John Brennan cretchley right well not
00:35:03
only was he a vampire but he was a dungeon master as well if if he had never existed or never
00:35:10
been who he was or the way he was all these other problems we would have never got to him they would have never been
00:35:16
creative so but but here's the problem now for where we are in our timeline and we talk about this and I
00:35:25
hate to repeat it but but it's unfortunately in Most states 25 years does not mean 25 years
00:35:34
behind bars it's pathetic now thankfully here we have the scenario where at least
00:35:42
he's going to face 50 years of probation pretty much a lifetime of being on probation but we get Robert like that's
00:35:54
going to stop him from committing other murders we got Robert wrestler again who
00:36:02
estimated that the Florida vampire and convicted abductor and rapist John crutchley would be released in 1998
00:36:09
remember he was sentenced in 1986 he's estimating this 1998 release based off of Once you factor in
00:36:20
time off for good behavior unfortunately not only was Bob wri that crutchley would get out early oh God but he was
00:36:30
off by two years they're going to release him in 1996 and as the date got closer and
00:36:38
closer people rightfully so started to panic and I'm talking about Panic not just at the Disco This is civilians and
00:36:48
law enforcement as well like everybody so we we have we we have the whole state of Florida is like oh you're going to
00:36:56
let this dude out well where are you going to let him out at like we don't want him here you can't like there's sex
00:37:02
offenders and then there's this guy no nobody wants this guy in their Community nobody
00:37:09
believes the community as a collective nobody believes that this guy could be rehabilitated he's something that we we
00:37:15
don't understand we would should not understand yeah and he's going to get out and he's going to continue to to do
00:37:23
whatever it is that he does so rather than just sitting there on their hands and panicking waiting for
00:37:30
him to get out we have law enforcement that are doing everything that they can to try to find the right amount of
00:37:38
evidence to try him to take him back to trial for one of these murders and hoping to get him locked up for
00:37:46
something else and for good before John Brennan crutchley was released from a for Florida prison now there was a great
00:37:54
article from the Associated Press and I'll go through it a little of it here Captain the convict known as the vampire
00:38:02
rapist was released from prison and is suspected in The Disappearance of at least three women in Florida and one in
00:38:11
Fairfax County Virginia prosecutor said John crutchley aged 49 remember he was 39 when he was arrested John crutchley
00:38:21
age 49 served 10 years of a 25-year sentence for abducting raping and drinking the blood of a female
00:38:28
hitchhiker in 1985 he was sent to a halfway house so after upon his release he sent to a
00:38:36
halfway house and this is so think of this as like Purgatory a little bit this is
00:38:44
while the authorities are trying to help him find a community that will accept him I've seen this in a few cases it's
00:38:52
it's it's strange but it does happen where when somebody is going to be paroled a person of this level a
00:39:02
dangerous individual of this level they they actively have to find a community that's willing to accept him and if
00:39:08
Florida don't want you nobody wants you well usually what happens the other case
00:39:14
that I know that we've seen this in was Arthur shawcross he had murdered two children and then they were going to let
00:39:19
him out of prison uh up up north and what happened in that case is very similar to what's going to happen in
00:39:26
this case usually what they find is that the smaller communities no you're you're not you're
00:39:33
not putting them here it's usually a larger Community that's kind of forced to accept them and so you'll get a
00:39:41
larger City that will accept them because they are used to more violent crimes they are used to increased
00:39:47
numbers of crimes and they believe that that might be a safer scenario for everyone it doesn't
00:39:55
matter because he's getting out has to go somewhere so even though he's denied any connection with any other murders
00:40:02
remember his former lawyer said that crutchley was at one time willing to plead guilty from anywhere between three
00:40:09
to six killings in return for life sentences no death penalty prosecutors said there was never a firm offer and
00:40:17
they didn't have corroborating evidence that they said they would need to accept
00:40:21
the police but police did find they did have circumstantial evidence evidence when they searched his desk at the
00:40:29
Harris Corporation office where he worked this is remember when they found the identif identification card
00:40:36
belonging to Patty valinski right she's been missing in Florida since March of 1985 he not only lived there then he was
00:40:45
also he's never been locked up for anything at this point so police were also looking at links between John
00:40:51
crutchley and a woman named Debbie Fitz John in Fairfax Virginia so she was murdered and we talked about
00:41:00
her briefly already but she was murdered in 1978 at the time Debbie Fitz John was 25
00:41:08
years old she was last seen when she was visiting John crutchley trailer on January 27th of that year her remains
00:41:17
were found buried in some nearby Woods months later her mom giving an interview says
00:41:25
quote my daughter went down to his trailer and she never came away again she added that she couldn't understand
00:41:31
how officials could set him free after only serving 10 years saying quote they're just going to let him out on the
00:41:38
public what the hell do they think he's going to do there here's they interviewed this potential victim Debbie
00:41:45
Fitz John her father and I really wanted to make sure I have my notes here please
00:41:50
make sure that you include this quote because this probably my favorite quote of the week when doing the research here
00:41:56
was he says Mr Fitz John says that he also wonders who would possibly want to give
00:42:04
John crutchley a job or a place to live adding quote you mark my word it will happen again I'm assuming mean kill or
00:42:12
rape somebody else he goes on to say quote send him up here I'll hire him and I'll send him back down in a burying box
00:42:20
now people in Orlando rightfully so were upset to later learn that crutchley was
00:42:26
going to be released into their Community ore County Sheriff Kevin Barry wasn't happy that Orlando was
00:42:33
chosen after two other communities rejected crutchley so the sheriff writes a letter to the governor saying that he
00:42:41
was outraged quote a violent sex offender is being released into my county and I found out about it on the
00:42:48
radio end quote the mother of crutchley rape victim are are one truly known victim here said that her daughter this
00:42:57
is 11 10 11 years later she says that her daughter has never recovered from the attack quote my daughter and I think
00:43:05
he should have gotten life he says he's a changed man but I think he is a sick man and I don't think he can ever change
00:43:13
yeah I mean if that was my daughter I'd hunt down this son of a [ __ ] and and kill him myself the good news is
00:43:21
nobody's going to have to go for that vigilante justice because there's several different ways to tell the next
00:43:29
part of the story and I'm trying to think of the most polite and correct way but I don't know that I'm capable now
00:43:35
[ __ ] that well what happens here Captain is remember he goes to this halfway house and we do know that John crutchley
00:43:44
likes marijuana we it was found in his home when he was arrested we have him given statements saying that he smoked
00:43:51
marijuana before he was in prison marijana at the halfway house again The Story Goes a few different ways one
00:43:58
telling of the story is that somehow he and maybe some of the other people in the halfway house got a hold of some
00:44:07
marijuana and they all sat around and smoked it another way to tell this story is that the persons living at the
00:44:14
halfway house maybe under the order or direction of somebody else held this man down and forced him to smoke
00:44:23
marijuana what we do know however he ingested it whether willingly or unwillingly we know that he ingested it
00:44:30
because the next day the probation officer shows up and says guess what sir we're going to need you to take a p
00:44:39
test well guess what when they find THC in his system that is a parole violation
00:44:47
so he goes from prison to halfway house gets stoned takes the P test back right back in jail got him got him yeah he was
00:44:56
out I think he was out like maybe 24 36 hours at this halfway house so whether they set him up or whether he chose to
00:45:05
violate his parole that's Up For Debate but what we do know and I take great satisfaction in this I you know I
00:45:15
you know me I like to try to play it by the rules as much as possible but if they held this guy down and made him
00:45:20
smoke some weed and especially if like the the warden or the sheriff or somebody said or the some the prosecutor
00:45:28
and you know made that happen I don't feel bad about it I mean nobody's gonna feel bad about in fact I in fact I get a
00:45:35
lot of joy out of that yeah so nothing but hatred towards this vampire so he goes back to prison and then in 2002 so
00:45:47
that's all going on in in 96 in 2002 this happens and most of this is from the Florida Today newspaper so
00:45:56
shortly after midnight on November 30th 2002 John crutchley cellmate at the Hardy Correctional
00:46:04
Institution found crutchley dead he was wearing only boxer shorts which were partially removed and he had a plastic
00:46:13
bread bag over his face being held in place with a red rubber band inside the bag was an asthma
00:46:23
inhaler wrapped in a handkerchief after after an autopsy the medical examiner his name is Steven
00:46:30
Nelson ruled the death accidental but due to asphixiation while performing a sex act on
00:46:40
himself so John crutchley so he in a way flicky flicked himself to death it's a autoerotic expiation uh is
00:46:52
how he died and so ultimately John crutchley Quest for the ultimate sexual experience kept him searching for
00:47:01
something more forbidden something more bizarre we know that during the mid 80s he gained notoriety worldwide as the
00:47:08
vampire rapist after he kidnapped a Florida a California woman and holding her in his malabor home for two days
00:47:15
before she escaped sentenced to 25 years in prison for the rape and kidnapping then gets life for violating his
00:47:24
probation but we see here John crutch ley's dangerous habits did not stop even after all of that punishment after all
00:47:32
of those reasons after getting caught so 17 years after his arrest his dangerous
00:47:38
habits his quest for the ultimate sexual experience is what ultimately killed him
00:47:45
the prosecutor yeah wolfinger told the newspaper quote his appetite for the bizaar just continued one thing led to
00:47:53
another to another until it finally killed him he was the ultimate Sex Fiend he was the most bizarre defendant by far
00:48:02
I ever prosecuted as much as I hate for anyone to die Society is better off with
00:48:08
him gone he was always looking for something more forbidden more bizarre he finally found it and the world is better
00:48:15
for it now the Corrections Department report indicates that crutch ley's interest in unusual and risky sex was
00:48:23
well documented throughout his time while he was locked up on record we have Wesley Pope who was
00:48:31
crutchley cellmate from November 200000 to March 2001 uhuh he told investigators
00:48:39
that he saw crutchley do such things as inject his genitals with needles and choke himself while
00:48:46
masturbating crutch ley's most recent cellmate James Elders he had to write a an affidavit
00:48:54
and this was from a March 30th davit he said that when he found John crutchley he thought that crutchley was asleep
00:49:04
when he discovered the body M he says when crutchley didn't respond to calls and knocks on his bunk Elders looked
00:49:12
closely he saw the bag over crutch ley's face he yanked it off and then he called
00:49:16
the guards for help investigators after the death searching through crutchley cell
00:49:22
recovered a number of items that appeared to be be related to his unusual behavior and these items were plastic
00:49:30
gloves razors strings with noes electrical wires black tubing and a battery pack maybe I just have
00:49:41
um morbid curiosity but there's two truths that i' well I guess three truths that I'd really like
00:49:50
to know in the story of the Florida vampire one what was his childhood really like
00:50:01
was this somebody that was just born uh sex psycho or did something happen to him
00:50:11
two what was in the bag and then three I think the obvious question is who were his victims exactly and the
00:50:21
thing here is Captain you say you're curious about his childhood but I mean we have two he he wasn't the
00:50:30
only child right so it's it's reasonable to make a little bit of an assumption here that at least two other kids and
00:50:39
his his older sister who passed away at 13 before he was born would have experienced a similar childhood or
00:50:46
upbringing by the two parents so so with with some of these guys too I don't know
00:50:53
look at the end of the day one thing that we know to be factual is that almost all of these guys were either
00:51:02
abused at some point in their life or at least claim to have been abused hurt people hurt people
00:51:09
correct but what I'm getting at is if if he didn't start doing what he was doing until his
00:51:17
30s um or his 20s I mean there was a period of his life that he lived on his own without Mom and Dad and who knows
00:51:27
how Wild and weird this dude got during that time period And as said there's no reason to believe that his brother or
00:51:36
sister did any of this type of behavior as well so it's it's really it's what I'm saying that's a long way of saying
00:51:45
it's a blessing that these types of people are unique and unique and not a good way
00:51:53
right I'd love to have that interview with his sibling so how many other victims were there truly we talked about
00:52:02
that list earlier that had 26 potential victims on there we know he's not responsible for a couple of them and
00:52:09
Maryland police going on record saying we don't have anything to connect him to any of the cases we have here we think
00:52:16
that uh we actually have reason to believe he wasn't involved in any of those we do know and I I think that even
00:52:25
though the plea deal didn't happen I think that we can put a lot of weight into his defense attorney going on
00:52:32
record multiple times saying my client was willing to confess to three to possibly six murders
00:52:42
yeah and then I think we also have evidence that is very suggestive that he was probably responsible not just for
00:52:54
one murder but probably a few probably several right I think that there are two victims that seem to be an obvious
00:53:02
choice when looking at this list of victims and saying we can connect him to these ladies as the perpetrator of their
00:53:10
murder so if you start in Florida there are probably several that he's good for there but some of these
00:53:18
victims unfortunately remain unidentified so we have no known Social Circles for the victim no timeline to
00:53:26
look at and no known point of origin for when killer encountered the victim so without any of that information and as
00:53:34
long as those victims remain unidentified I don't think that with any level of confidence you could include
00:53:42
them or exclude them as possible crutchley victims MH it it would be to me it would just wouldn't even
00:53:50
make any sense to have a lengthy discussion about them because they've with not knowing their identity
00:53:57
if you identify one of them or all of them you very likely could find a much better suspect right away right the ones
00:54:05
that I feel very confident in here Captain is Patty linski she's one that I feel that we can
00:54:14
put the old 99% certainty tag on that she's a John kushley victim if you want to learn more
00:54:22
about her case uh you can visit our friends at the Charlie project that's Charlie project.org they are I believe
00:54:31
one of to be possibly the most comprehensive missing person's database in the world maybe in the world
00:54:38
she is missing so she was hitchhiking in Florida and what makes him a great suspect she's the one that they found
00:54:46
her state ID in his possession at his office when they searched his office on December
00:54:53
20th 1985 we know that he kept the identification of his rape victim so it would make sense that when
00:55:05
you find when she goes missing and has been missing for months she was missing for
00:55:11
about 8 months by the time they find her identification and the possession of this very violent dangerous
00:55:18
man and so I don't think that that's any coincidence at all and in fact later crutchley would go go on record and say
00:55:28
yeah I picked her up I she I I I don't deny picking up because he can't deny everything he has to make up a plausible
00:55:36
story as to why he would have that identification card but not be responsible for why she has never
00:55:43
returned home right and his response is I picked her up we drove around for a little bit we smoked a joint she started
00:55:51
getting really obnoxious talking about biker gangs and wanting to find drugs and so he says he kicked her out of the
00:55:57
car and then later I believe he says the next day he found some of her belongings
00:56:03
in the back seat of his car and he chose to discard all of them minus the identification card in the pictures the
00:56:12
wallet insert that they found I don't believe anything this guy says he admits to seeing her now that I'm sure there's
00:56:19
at least one person out there and listener land saying well maybe she just took off on her own and her mother says
00:56:25
look my daughter Patty yes she she might go away take off for a week couple weeks
00:56:32
she was also known to go out of town and out of state without telling me she was
00:56:36
very close with her mother her mother does say if we had plans she would tell me why she wasn't going to make those
00:56:42
plans or if we had plans she would be there and when she started missing some of those plans of course her mother
00:56:49
became very concerned but Patty collected a monthly disability check and when the check came and her daughter
00:56:59
didn't show up to collect it that's when she said she knew something terrible had
00:57:05
happened to her daughter so I and I think that to me is good enough evidence to prove that she's not just she didn't
00:57:13
just simply walk away the other person that I think is an obvious connection to crutchley is
00:57:20
Deborah Rita Fitz John up from Virginia remember it's confirmed that everybody believes that John
00:57:30
crutchley was the last person to see Deborah Fitz John and unfortunately or fortunately I guess for your
00:57:37
investigation purposes she's not a missing person anymore they found her body eight or nine months later after
00:57:46
her disappearance uh she was found decomposed by hunters in a remote wooded area and
00:57:55
again we have other persons saying that she was going to see John crutchley that
00:58:01
night they had dated they had gone on several dates and he was actually before he even
00:58:07
moved to Florida he was the number one suspect in that murder case they had actively talked to crutchley multiple
00:58:16
times about Deborah Fitz John's murder and in fact he admits she came over to my trailer that night when she got there
00:58:25
we hung out briefly I fell asleep watching TV when I woke up she was she was putting on her coat to leave and
00:58:33
then he says I never saw her again the interesting thing here nobody else saw her again as far as far as we know yeah
00:58:40
there's nobody coming forward to say that she was ever seen again her car was later
00:58:45
found uh about a mile walk from crutch ley's trailer and it was found at a place called The Hunters Lodge which was
00:58:54
a country music dance club and they interviewed all the workers there and every one of them
00:59:00
saying yeah that car that belonged to that woman we know who she is she wasn't here last night her car was only it was
00:59:08
found the day after she was missing so they didn't not a whole lot of time pass between the time that she is believed to
00:59:15
have disappeared and when they found her car one thing here too that that he does
00:59:21
in this move Captain is this was about a week actually a little more than a week after Deborah
00:59:28
Fitz John's disappearance a letter arrived at Fitz John's condominium and it was from John
00:59:37
crutchley it was postmarked February 4th so this would be eight days after she vanished and in this
00:59:46
letter crutchley apologized for his sleepiness the night of Fitz John's visit to his trailer saying when you get
00:59:54
back please call me I don't know know you very well but in spite of your want for a new job and all I know it's not
01:00:02
like you to stay away for long I like you a lot I know that my Libra possessiveness is an affront to your
01:00:12
Gemini want for freedom but I really want to be your friend at least answer my call or drop me a card I promise not
01:00:20
to bother you with calls at weird times like you get from that other guy please call love John sounds like a lame
01:00:30
attempt at an alibi to me Bingo and we do know in that case captain that at least on two occasions crutchley was
01:00:39
talked to by authorities and talked into taking a polygraph examination twice both times he was a
01:00:48
noow surprise surprise well when police made a quick connection to this unsolved homicide up in
01:00:59
Virginia back from 1978 the Fitz John's case police in Florida made a very quick
01:01:05
connection because when they're searching his home after the woman was saved crawling
01:01:10
on the side of the road one of the items that they find is a business card a calling card for the detective who was
01:01:18
running that investigation up in Virginia right and then if you want to take it a step further this dude
01:01:25
according and I know that not everybody likes a jailhouse snitch but this dude if if this is true
01:01:33
he seems to not been able to keep his mouth quiet while he's locked up because he tells at least one individual about a
01:01:42
couple of murders that he said he did and in fact goes into detail with what's believed to be his explanation of
01:01:50
killing Debbie up in Virginia he said that Accord this inmate his name name is uh Patrick
01:01:58
Dantel he says that crutchley told him that quote he had sex that they had sex and that he had taken the body out and
01:02:08
disposed of it in the woods we do know that she was found in the woods he said that she was one of those kinky girls
01:02:14
that liked to be strangled until she came to and then strangled again he said unfortunately she didn't make it to the
01:02:21
end this cellmate kept a journal and and I'm guessing that police were able to learn quite a bit about
01:02:31
crutchley from this journal again there's several of the victims that were found as said there
01:02:40
were multiple victims that were found within a six mile radius of John crutchley home they were all found in
01:02:47
the year 1985 he was only locked up for 10 of those 365 days so I think it would
01:02:53
be reasonable to believe that that there's a possibility that you could connect them to one two maybe all of
01:03:00
those homicides that still remain unsolved to this very day and we have his attorney the attorney who defended
01:03:10
cretchley during his 1986 trial who said in 1995 this man's name is Joe Mitchell
01:03:16
said based upon all of the information presented to me while I was representing John crutchley it was obvious to me that
01:03:23
he was involved in a number of homicides that's coming from his defense attorney that's almost like that's
01:03:29
almost like a mother right that where his boy could her boy could do no wrong opening up and coming forward and saying
01:03:36
yeah I think my son's a serial killer I do before we wrap up here Captain I want
01:03:40
to give a shout out to the Florida Today newspaper it took a lot of source material to put together this story
01:03:47
especially once you factor in last week's episodes that were in a way part one and two of this lengthy story right
01:03:53
but Florida today and a really good writer for Florida today and true Jero Michael cabbage did an did absolutely
01:04:02
gangbusters work on a forpart series called missing proof that ran in the Florida Today paper back in October of
01:04:11
1995 in the end this bizarre man and his bizarre death left so many with a lot of
01:04:17
unanswered questions there are detectives that think that they failed to solve these cases there are mothers
01:04:24
that don't know what happened to their their daughters there was an entire state that was terrified that this
01:04:30
monster would be allowed to live and walk free after a relatively short prison sentence and a judge that made
01:04:37
sure that a dangerous man who needed to be monitored if he couldn't be locked up
01:04:42
that he would remain on probation for the rest of his days despite mountains of Suspicion and circumstantial evidence
01:04:49
during his lifetime detectives were unable to find sufficient physical evidence to indict John crutchley for a
01:04:57
single homicide there are no fingerprints no weapons no Blood Stained items that can be linked to John
01:05:04
crutchley John Brennan crutchley the Florida vampire remains an [Music] enigma you could be anywhere in the
01:05:23
world but you're here with us and that's cuz you're a freak thanks for telling your friends about the show and thanks
01:05:28
for telling your mama and your papa Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful beautiful
01:05:34
listener this week Captain we have one of the great ones it's whoever fights monsters my 20 years tracking serial
01:05:41
killers for the FBI by the late great Robert wrestler face to face with some of America's most terrifying Killers FBI
01:05:49
veteran and ex Army C Colonel Robert wrestler learned from them how to identify the unknown monsters who walk
01:05:58
among us and put them where they belong Behind Bars check out whoever fights Monsters by the great Robert wrestler
01:06:07
you can find that book and other recommendations on our recommended page on our website true Crim garage.com yeah
01:06:14
the MF FBI and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] discover more arts and culture in Denver
01:07:01
experience the share show at the bule theater May 3rd through 5th celebrate the Cinco de Mayo festival at Civic
01:07:09
Center Park May 4th and 5th and immerse yourself in biophilia at the Denver Art Museum May 5th through August 11th it's
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time to do more Denver start planning your art packed Adventures at visit denver.com
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do more