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so [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening i'm your host nick and with me as always it's been years since he's danced the calypso and of course i'm
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talking about the captain well that's because this captain has a wooden leg with real foot it's good to be seen and
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good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are drinking light speed by
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brewdog why because we are hoping and praying that this week's unsolved case gets some justice how fast
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also on the sirius xm app for all you serious xm listeners and colonel that's enough of the
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business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] four young sisters who all died on a fire at their family home still unclear how the fire started
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investigators are looking at the first floor electrical system [Music] the girl's mother injured along with two
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police officers who tried to save the sisters lives [Music] such an early age such a heavy loss
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i miss them [Music] she was a single mom working very hard and like i said her babies were her angels
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i can't imagine what she's going through [Music] sadly on november 23rd 2016 the carroll county comment ran the
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following report with the headline four sisters parish and floor fire the article read in part
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an early morning fire monday november 21st 2016 in flora claimed the lives of four sisters
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ages 11 9 7 and 5 and sent their mother and two police officers to the hospital the victims names have not been released
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911 was called at 3 35 a.m to a two unit apartment building located at 103 east columbia street
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when emergency personnel arrived flames were visible according to florida town marshal paul redman
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the victims families resided on the main level which also includes an upstairs bedroom where the girls slept
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officers and volunteer firefighters removed the girls who were not breathing from the residence
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redmond said they worked hard to resuscitate them but could not the victim's mother was airlifted to an
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indianapolis hospital for treatment a county deputy was flown to a fort wayne hospital for treatment of smoke
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inhalation and burns to his hands and face a flora police officer was transported to a lafayette hospital for
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treatment of smoke inhalation the couple occupying the upstairs apartment escaped unharmed
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fire units from delphi camden burlington and cutler also responded according to redmond the fire was
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knocked down quickly also helping at the scene were the carroll county sheriff's
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department indiana state police and other police units the indiana department of homeland security and
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state fire marshal along with local authorities are conducting an investigation as to the cause of the
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fire redmond said the victims were students at carroll elementary school carol's counselors as well as others
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from nearby school corporations and local ministry were available at the school to help students and staff cope
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with the tragedy the comment will run dozens of articles about the fire and fatalities for the
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weeks and months to come we have covered several house fires and arson stories on true crime garage
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and unfortunately there were fatalities in those fires as well but stop and really think about it for a
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while there are few things more terrifying than a house fire imagine waking in the night
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the house still dark the smell of smoke is strong you jump out of your bed with one
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thought my children you rush from the room only to be confronted with a wall of black smoke so
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thick your eyes water your throat burns and your lungs sees up the heat searing your skin to the point
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where you are sure that you are on fire screaming is impossible as you are overtaken by coughing and you stagger
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out the front door choking and gasping for air and your children are still inside
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this is what happened in the middle of the night on november twenty first two 2016 in flora indiana
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later we learned that this deadly house fire was no accident this is true crime garage
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and this is the floor fire case [Music] in november of 2016 little girls kyoni kiara kiana and carial
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lived with their mother galen rose in a rented apartment inside a duplex in the tiny town of flora indiana the house was
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situated on a corner right next to downtown florida this is a town of just one square mile occupied by 2000
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residents the small town of flora is located in carroll county indiana the house galen and her girls lived in
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located at 103 east columbia street was divided into two separate apartments the
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family of five our family that we're discussing lived in one half and other tenants a mom and
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her two kids occupied the other half of this duplex galen and her kids slept on two
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different floors of the home the girls slept in bedrooms upstairs and galen occupied a room on the main level the
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four sisters were normal little girls who loved to play outside and were big time into cheerleading and that is an
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understatement i cannot emphasize that enough big time into cheerleading they were on various competitive
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cheering teams and they ranged in age from five to eleven so preschool age up to the sixth
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grade neighbors would later tell the media that the kids were always playing outside they were very nice and polite
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children they said the mom was friendly and would say hello the girls loved to play with other
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neighborhood kids dogs and were always smiling and dancing one flora resident said they were so joyous they were very
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happy girls i've never seen them not smiling always on the front porch waving at everybody that went by they didn't
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know a stranger well let's get to the details of this tragic event okay captain so on the weekend of november
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18th through the 20th 2016 the girls had a cheer competition on that saturday afternoon
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on sunday kiana who was big into basketball she had a game so the five members of this family went to the
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grocery store and went home to eat dinner after this basketball game and after dinner it would be bedtime for the
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girls on sunday night this is the 20th the girls all went to bed around 10 p.m upstairs in their room
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galen slept alone downstairs so she says that she went to bed around the same time as well
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but around 3 30 a.m galen wakes up here's what happened per fox 59 news it says everyone was asleep
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the girls were upstairs and galen was in her bedroom on the main floor until she said intense smoke woke her up
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the whole entire house was full of smoke i couldn't really see galen said i pretty much tried to save my babies by
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running up the steps i got halfway i couldn't breathe and i just ran out of the house to try to help now galen stood
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in the front yard in her nightgown screaming but other screams could be heard as well
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coming from inside the house a neighbor one of many awakened by the sounds of the distraught mother called 9-1-1 the
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first to respond was carroll county sheriff's deputy drew yoder he rushed into the house when galen screamed at
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him that her children were still inside he was quickly forced to retreat from the burning structure
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second to respond was flora police officer josh dissinger the two officers attempted to enter the home several more
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times but they had to pull back each time on another attempt disslinger had to pull yoder out
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of the home because the smoke was so dense the flames so hot later yoder said to the journal and
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courier the third time is when things went bad all i remember is waking up in the
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ambulance with dissinger standing over me telling me that everything was going to
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be okay firefighters were able to be on the scene very quickly by the time they arrive we have smoke and flames that are
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billowing from the house galen rose stood on the front lawn screaming hysterically
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the two law enforcement officers were down by this point injured by their repeated
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attempts into the home right so shortly after 3 30 a.m we have an emt who lived next door to the family her name is
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angela francis she was awakened by the screaming she ran out to help and was immediately
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you know thrown into the situation where she's helping and assisting anyone that
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she can including the ambulances that are now arriving on the scene we also have
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neighbor chassis fox her and her husband also went outside of their home that night and watched horrified as
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as sadly the first responders failed to save the children per fox 59 galen rose recalled the ambulance man
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told me that my babies was no longer here and after that moment i don't remember anything
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galen was sedated and airlifted from the scene to a hospital in indianapolis her
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condition was listed as critical but stable she was in the hospital for nearly a
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week the flora firefighters were eventually able to put out this fire one by one emts brought out four little
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bodies on stretchers deputy yoder suffered burns to his hands and face and smoke inhalation
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he was airlifted to a burn unit in fort wayne where he stayed for several days he wrote a handwritten note to officer
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dissinger that read quote you saved my life josh he later says he has no recollection of
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writing this note dissinger was treated at the lafayette hospital he too had smoke inhalation but he was released
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monday night the two men had done everything in their power to try to save all four girls
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unfortunately they just failed that the smoke was too bad the fire was too big i
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just think i have little fires at my house you know outside you know little bonfires
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you're moving around those firewoods and boom you get hit with some smoke and you start
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coughing and choking immediately and that's of a little fire and you're surrounded by fresh air can you imagine
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how you'd react or how the body would react when you're hit with smoke and when you're gasping for air all your
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body is getting is more smoke the residents of the other half of the home remember we have a woman with her two
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children that lived there she was able to escape that night without any injury at all luckily her
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children were not home with her that night carroll county coroner jd cree announced that all four girls had died
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of asphyxiation due to smoke inhalation manner of death was listed as accidental
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this was obviously devastating to the family but also all the firefighters that were involved
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in trying to save these girls lives and it devastated the whole community so they held the funeral at the local high
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school this is one of those horrible situations that we hear about captain where the
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first responders are now traumatized for months and even years to come the funeral itself must be unbearable
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we're talking about four children here the carroll elementary school provided grief counselors for the students who
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all knew the girls students created banners and cards and posted them all along the walls of the school and a
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candlelight vigil was held on tuesday evening of that week afterward people delivered meals to
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galen rose and her family and fundraisers and sales from a cookbook raised money for her to help try in some
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way to rebuild her life deputy yoder who we have already talked about who was on the scene and tried
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several times to get back in the house he was obviously devastated by the incident as was everyone
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he when he learned that the girls had not been saved he was crushed he says you know i know these girls i
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drove through flora all the time for work and i would see them he says quote those girls were always
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outside on a nice day dancing around and the greatest thing is they would all stop smile and wave
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as you pass by he had often spoken with galen who was a cashier at a gas station in town so he
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knew her as well this is one of those situations it's a small town not a lot of people
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and he shows up and he's responding trying to save people that he knows people that he has seen in his everyday
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life well first responders get to know gas station attendance a lot because they stop in and get coffee
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at all hours of the night and in a small town if you're a cashier anywhere you really
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get to know a lot of people in the community these four girls were absolutely beautiful girls absolutely beautiful and
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captain you know 20 years ago i worked at a gas station and i've always recommended here if you work at a gas
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station offer free coffee to all the officers to first responders get those people in
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your stores and take care of them on that monday captain this was like 3 30 in the morning on
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that monday so now we have all this tragedy that happens in the middle of the night
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and we have fire investigators who are going to have to begin the process of sifting through the debris rubble and
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ash to try to determine the point of origin because we have four fatalities here we
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have an investigation that has to happen exactly so we have assistant chief of the burlington fire department derrick
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jackson that said it's just a fire that happened at night people were sleeping and didn't wake up in time right but it
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was not really that simple as we know the indiana state police they were the official lead investigative agency on
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the case the actual on-the-scene fire investigation would require experts the fire would be investigated by the
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indiana state fire marshal's office which is part of the indiana department of homeland security and this would be
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well a rather extensive and ongoing investigation in the first few days fire investigator dennis randle
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would only say that the fire was categorized as undetermined pending review of the structure by an electrical
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engineer most house fires and even business fires are electrical at the point of origin right and so i'm
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assuming that that's what they were thinking they could be looking at here in this particular fire and it's also
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older building that's correct throughout the years the electric codes change and part of the house possibly wasn't up
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to code and so after a few days of investigation they were not really sure what caused
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the fire they were still listing the official ruling as undetermined even at that time
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they were able to determine that the fire had started in the kitchen possibly behind the refrigerator and there are
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other reports out there that say that the fire started at the back of the house on the ground floor i want to be clear
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about something here it's not been we're going to go through this along our timeline here
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and even in these early stages of their investigation the first couple days in we're getting conflicting reports about
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the origin of the fire where it started they've not officially released to this day
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where that fire started so when you hear us reading off different points of where
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the fire could have started right just know that nothing is absolutely official on those statements these are from
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reports that have come out since the investigation has been going on well a lot of people think that it's possibly
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it was started behind the oven as well you you hear that on several reports the sad fact is
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they're renting this house this is a mother a single mother of four trying to put her kids in the best
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situation that she can they're renting a house without smoke detectors yeah the the official
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statements that i have or at least the reported statements that were coming out early on
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was that no foul play was suspected that a canine officer on the scene had found
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no presence of accelerants and further investigation had found that a smoke detector at the top of the
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stairs on the second floor had no batteries in it and it was melted from the heat of the fire
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and there is a portion of this statement here captain that says there were no working smoke
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detectors in the part of the house where the family lived right by early december
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the federal bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms had officially joined the fire investigation it's not clear
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whether their assistance was requested or if they decided to jump in to this investigation
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the case went quiet shortly after that as the investigators did their thing and that is the end of any normalcy in
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this tragic case from here on out it goes kind of haywire in my opinion a little wonky donkey two months after the
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fire on january 28th there was big news so remember we've been told already by this point in our timeline that there
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was no reason to suspect foul play right and that there were no detected accelerants by the canine
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officers that the girls deaths were still listed as accidental at this point and so on but now
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as of that january 28 2017 a press release from the state fire marshal's office stated that the fire
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was the result of arson again we have fire investigator dennis randall he said in a statement released on that saturday
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quote the november 21st 2016 flora indiana fire has been ruled incendiary at this time there are no suspects
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investigators determined the fire to be incendiary after accelerants were found in several locations of the structure
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end quote so as you can imagine captain this is huge news accelerants are found in several locations
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based off of this statement yeah and this is several locations inside the house occupied by galen and the girls
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so the fire is no accident or the result of faulty wiring or even electrical short
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this we're now being told is a fire that was deliberately set [Music] four young sisters who all died on a
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fire at their family home [Applause] still unclear how the fire started investigators were looking at the first
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floor electrical system [Music] the girl's mother injured along with two police officers who tried to save the
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sisters lives [Music] such an early age such a heavy loss i miss them [Music] she was a single mom working
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very hard and like i said her babies were her angels i can't imagine what she's going through
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[Music] [Music] all right we're back and we just want to take a quick minute to wish all of you
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guys and your family a happy turkey day a happy and safe thanksgiving to everybody out there talk
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hands in the air right cheers cheers now for anyone who's paying attention to our cases that we cover here in the
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garage and the dates and locations that we have discussed so far you may realize something pretty
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significant flora that little town abuts another small town in indiana that was rocked by a crime in which two girls
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were murdered abby williams and libby german were murdered on the monin high bridge trail in delphi indiana on
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february 13 2017. this was literally just three months after the flora fire so now we have six young girls
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who have all died under suspicious circumstances in just a period of three months and about a
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distance of eight miles away all in carroll county indiana again these budding counties
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they share community they share community events but they also share family members so you have one county re
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grieving and now you have another one grieving as well it's very tragic time for that region and then you have the
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effect that this was going to take some of the resources away from the floor fire investigation that being the delphi
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investigation so for one thing as we know newer cases always get the most attention from law enforcement but some
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people have wondered whether this was a race related issue and if the four daughters that were
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killed in the floor of fire were white some have said that the investigators would have continued their investigation
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with more vigor yeah i don't know how much vigor it had but the investigation definitely continued so the four sisters
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case got no televised press conferences no national news exposure no public outcries
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that the culprit would be brought to justice in fact robert ives the carroll county
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prosecutor at the time somebody who we've quoted here before when we've talked about the delphi case right says
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he wasn't even notified that arson was suspected six months after the fire he told fox 59 labs tests have been done
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lab results have come back but i haven't received anything like a final police report not one suspect had been brought
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to his attention he said he goes on to say quote the floor of fire has had as much investigation put
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on it as many people involved as much serious consideration as probably any other case i've ever been involved in
00:27:09
except for the delphi murder obviously it's going to be investigated by law enforcement but this investigation is
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going to be trumped because it's going to be investigated by the firefighters as well
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but i think one of the reasons why it didn't get as much coverage initially is because
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the reports was this is an accident okay if it's an accident it's a tragic event
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and we're going to talk about it and and now we're going to have these funerals the community is going to come together
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and now let's start working to move past this if it came out the night of the fires or the next day that no we
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believe this is a hundred percent arson then you're looking at a murder investigation right away and i think
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that's one of the reasons it didn't get the coverage that it deserved yes this is a horrible horrible
00:28:03
situation nobody's denying that neither nobody should even be comparing which situations more tragic they're equally
00:28:12
tragic and i think you're spot on here captain a part of the reason why we have less
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information or at least less news coverage and national outcry for justice here is the fact that you
00:28:26
just said it was originally ruled or thought to be either undetermined or accidental
00:28:32
and so that takes a little bit away from that sentiment from everybody to begin with but the other thing too
00:28:41
i don't know that it's really truly fair to kind of compare the investigations or
00:28:46
the efforts put forward on these two cases it doesn't feel to me like we're comparing apples to apples
00:28:54
it's a little more apples to oranges here because very few we've been doing this a very long time
00:29:01
i have seen very few cases that have received as much attention as the delphi murder cases yeah
00:29:07
so well look it it'd be like every child that is murdered saying it's not fair that jonbenet
00:29:14
ramsay's case got covered more than theirs that's a good example and then on top of that in the true crime podcast
00:29:20
community a lot of the creators we know are more likely to cover unsolved murder case than
00:29:27
uh unsolved arson case they're just not covered as much in the true crime world yes and i feel like with the delphi case
00:29:35
really the there's only a handful of cases that i think have received as much or more
00:29:41
publicity than the delphi case and i mean we're talking jonbenet the o.j simpson case
00:29:48
there's very few out there now what i do believe here in this case for the floor
00:29:54
fire case is i would have liked to seen more eyes and ear balls on this from the get go
00:30:02
because i do think that there's somebody out there that might know something but the investigation itself has been a
00:30:09
little weird and that's why i said earlier that that's going to be the last of the normalcy in this case in in this
00:30:16
investigation yeah because we what we have here is first off arson is very difficult to
00:30:24
determine and investigate right now the other problematic thing for the investigation itself is
00:30:32
most states and cities do not have a high clearance rate when it comes to arsons to clearing arson
00:30:40
cases meaning most of the time they don't make an arrest or get a conviction in the arson
00:30:47
case like you said it's a tough investigation because smoke destroys evidence fire destroys evidence
00:30:56
similar to a crime happening and the victim being placed into water that water is going to destroy so much
00:31:04
evidence and before we move on too far into the investigation captain i want to make sure that i point something out too
00:31:10
that really kind of ticked me off as i was going through my research and looking into
00:31:16
this horrible fire case here at some point when there was no news of a good suspect or
00:31:24
finger pointing to people outside of the home at some point some members of the public
00:31:31
started pointing their finger at galen rose the mother of the three girls and i found that incredibly
00:31:40
i think disgusting is the best word i understand that their suspicion and that when there has been no answers and
00:31:48
you cannot find the culprit of something so horrific as this that you want to find somebody to blame
00:31:55
that you want to point the finger and say i think that's why i think that's the person that did it and that's why we
00:32:01
don't have the answers i get that end of it but everything that i can see she does not
00:32:08
make a good suspect other than the fact that we know she was in the home that night i see a woman here that has been
00:32:14
destroyed absolutely destroyed you think that community was destroyed by this event
00:32:20
her life has been it's been hell i'm sure every day for her has been hell and now we're coming up on five years
00:32:28
since that horrible night well my issue is that she's a she's a victim in this tragic event
00:32:35
law enforcement know that firefighters and their investigators know that to me you have a duty to
00:32:43
investigate this hard and fast and if you can rule her out initially again you didn't say it was arson right away
00:32:52
so it gets less coverage with less coverage less people talking about it less likely you're going to have
00:32:58
somebody talking and and have somebody confessing to a friend or something of that nature
00:33:04
but also when you know that she was home rule her in or out very quickly and that's law enforcement you know
00:33:12
three days into their investigation if they know that she is not a suspect you come out
00:33:17
and you stand hard that she is not a suspect and if you do that then you stop the
00:33:22
rumor meals and you stop having people online speculate and throw blame on this lady that is already suffering so i said
00:33:32
that the investigation itself was a little weird and i think everybody will agree with me because what we have here
00:33:39
is remember the press release that we just went through where they are now changing the undetermined status to
00:33:45
arson and so essentially if it is arson these four girls were murdered now the problem with that statement with
00:33:52
that press release was we said indiana state police is the lead on this case they were unaware
00:34:01
that that press release was going to be issued this was not agreed upon by all of the
00:34:07
investigating agencies that hey we're ready to announce the public that we've made a determination of arson here in
00:34:14
this case and then in june of 2017 we have arson investigator dennis randall who abruptly resigned from his
00:34:23
position he was the one that released that press release saying that the fire was deemed arson after accelerants were
00:34:29
found in several locations in the house now he is on record saying time and time
00:34:34
again that this disagreement between the agencies had nothing to do with him resigning you
00:34:40
know some people work at a job for a very long time or have a career we all retire at some point but one thing that
00:34:47
we should note here is some of this disagreement came about because there was a senior fire
00:34:53
investigator from michigan working for an insurance company on the fire case he did not agree with randall's
00:35:00
assessment of the accelerants or how the investigation was being conducted so in february of that year he wrote a
00:35:07
critical email to the indiana department of homeland security director and the indiana state
00:35:15
fire marshal stating the following the january 28 2017 press release by the state fire marshal about the conclusions
00:35:24
of their investigation are not correct and completely based on speculation and not evidence
00:35:31
also the press release statement about accelerants being discovered in several locations is absolutely not based on any
00:35:39
evidence discovered at the scene during the investigation and the investigator dennis randle was not performing a
00:35:46
proper origin and cause investigation based on the current procedures of the nfpa
00:35:53
921 2016 edition this report filed and press release given by dennis randle is truly unfortunate and potentially a
00:36:04
grave injustice for the four little girls that perished in the fire well colonel what's your opinions on this
00:36:11
i think what we have here captain is a situation where we might have too many cooks in the kitchen
00:36:16
we have about seven agencies involved in this investigation and it seems to me like
00:36:22
communication wasn't great between these different agencies and i think at points in the
00:36:30
investigation some of their findings seem to be contradicting themselves along the way or
00:36:37
other agencies findings right so i think everything was set up with good intentions of working this thing
00:36:44
together in the beginning but again you have about seven agencies that are involved
00:36:49
in this investigation i kind of feel like it was going to go wrong at some point
00:36:55
given the number of people involved we have seen in many arson investigation where one expert states that this is
00:37:03
a hundred percent definitive that it's arson and then years later they come back and say no this is
00:37:10
clearly accidental this was faulty wiring it becomes very convoluted and very hard
00:37:17
to determine because we're not experts ourselves in this field no and we've seen that expert opinion change
00:37:25
throughout the years this is a science that they're still working on that they're still working to
00:37:30
perfect like everything else and so where we have cases that we've looked at that are
00:37:36
20 30 years old we look at them now in hindsight and go i don't know if they got it right based
00:37:42
off of the way that we see the science today right and we could break down each point of this investigation but it would
00:37:50
take us hours upon hours there's a lot of minutia but maybe colonel you can just break down the major points of this
00:37:57
well sadly captain in its simplest form what we are being told by the experts the ones leading this investigation
00:38:06
members of that seven agency team is at first it wasn't foul play undetermined next it was foul play accelerants were
00:38:16
found in multiple locations inside the home then uh hold up it might not be foul play we are still investigating
00:38:24
to going back to eventually it was in fact foul play it was arson but accelerants were only found in one spot
00:38:34
and one location and we're not being told exactly what that location was yeah when you have the community crying out
00:38:41
for hey if this is arson where are the suspects tell us who these guys are is there somebody that we should be
00:38:49
afraid of in our community but this investigation can't get on the same track on if it was an
00:38:58
accident or arson to begin with well in 2017 and in december they did a peer review which
00:39:05
i always like when these agencies do a peer review so the indiana state police requested that the indianapolis fire
00:39:13
department send in experts to investigate the evidence that was collected at the flora
00:39:19
fire and we have on record sergeant kim riley anyone familiar with the delphi case will know kim riley he says quote
00:39:27
it's a good practice to have fresh eyes review an investigation and since this case is believed to be arson
00:39:34
the indianapolis fire department was asked to conduct the peer review by the end of
00:39:40
january of 2018 the report from the indianapolis investigators was in they confirmed that
00:39:48
the fire was intentionally set however accelerants were found in only one location in the home not several
00:39:55
in the wake of this report the indiana state police announced that the criminal investigation would continue so as
00:40:02
things started to look promising when we have doug carter again people familiar with the delphi case no doug carter he's
00:40:09
the indiana state police spokesman he spoke with local news stations at this time and he said over time
00:40:18
people are starting to talk to us about that place about that home about that area and around the home what might have
00:40:26
been some of the activities in and around that residence in the days weeks and months leading up to the fire he
00:40:33
said police were not yet in a place where they could make an arrest but quote i believe that we will end
00:40:41
quote since that finding by seasoned arson investigators over three years have passed with no arrest
00:40:48
no publicly named suspects and really no new information so here we sit five years after the fire
00:40:58
and all we figured out by this point is that it was intentionally set it is an arson fire
00:41:04
there was four fatalities and accelerants were found in one location regarding this fire well we're
00:41:12
not getting a lot of information from investigators so maybe we can get some information from the lawsuits in this
00:41:19
case yes captain in may of 2018 galen rose's attorney filed a federal lawsuit claiming that her landlords this
00:41:29
is birch tree holdings were negligent because there were no working smoke detectors
00:41:35
in the part of the house occupied by her and her children they also made a product liability claim
00:41:41
against sears in whirlpool the documents filed claimed that an oven and range manufactured by whirlpool and sold by
00:41:50
sears was the cause of the fire because it was defective fire investigators had removed the range for testing
00:41:59
this part of the lawsuit however was dropped in 2020 this after extensive testing revealed that the
00:42:07
stove was not defective galen also alleges in her complaint that the house also had a back door that had no
00:42:16
functioning lock and some outlets in the kitchen that did not work repairs to the outlets
00:42:22
took place just a couple of weeks before the fire obviously arson mitigates the fault
00:42:30
on the part of the landlord but the reality is the non-working smoke detectors present a huge
00:42:38
huge problem for the landlords yeah i feel like they're still that's still neglect and again you have a situation
00:42:45
you have a single mother raising four children she's in a situation where again trying
00:42:52
to provide the best home environment for her kids this might just be what she can afford and then
00:42:59
sometimes you don't feel like you have a leg to stand on to go well the house doesn't have this and
00:43:04
the house doesn't have that and you need to make these changes because you're afraid well if they evict
00:43:12
you for whatever reason that you might not be able to find a better situation yeah and we have the mother and family
00:43:18
who have stated over and over again that they kind of feel like this case isn't being worked as hard as
00:43:25
it possibly could be that maybe it's been shoved under the rug since so much time has gone by we do
00:43:34
have the indiana state police that have pushed back on that idea a little bit they have
00:43:41
outwardly said you know we don't have any suspects in this case or we've not named a suspect in this case they've
00:43:48
said we have persons of interest we have people that we would like to talk to people that we'd like to track down and
00:43:55
speak with that we've not been able to do yet so a little pushback coming from indiana
00:44:01
state police and in fact we have some words from doug carter the spokesman that addresses
00:44:09
some of that he said too that he was frustrated by the stagnated investigation but he also said that the family has
00:44:17
failed to provide critical information to move forward the investigation saying quote i'm hurt that they think we
00:44:25
haven't done anything indiana state police investigators have taken trips to illinois kentucky
00:44:31
ohio and california in the hunt for clues carter hinted that the investigation had stalled because of a
00:44:38
lack of cooperation he said that while galen spoke with investigators after the fire she has avoided conversations with
00:44:46
investigators about who had access to her home carter said quote it's very important that we understand who's been
00:44:53
at the house who had been at the house what those dynamics were and people who did visit the home and right now we
00:45:03
don't know what those answers are we have to get access to the entire family period end
00:45:10
quote well again all first responders to this whether it's an accident or it was
00:45:15
on purpose the end result is for dead children that shouldn't be dead and those first responders are going to have
00:45:24
to live with that for the rest of their lives and to think that doesn't affect them or that these
00:45:30
the law enforcement doesn't want to solve this case it's just i i can't believe that that is the case
00:45:37
no i'm with you captain i don't think that that is the situation here i think that this arson investigation is a
00:45:43
difficult one i'm not going to sit here though and pretend that i don't think that they have
00:45:48
made some stumbles the investigators themselves along the way and there's been a little bit of controversy in
00:45:55
regards to the original fire investigator and the investigation as it were that dennis randle that we've talked
00:46:04
about his wife uh was stealing money at one point we're talking thousands and thousands of
00:46:11
dollars from attorneys right and she was eventually sent to do some jail time some prison time for
00:46:17
that theft so there was already kind of a budding of heads between the indiana state police carroll county
00:46:26
and the fire department because while some of this investigation is going on they're also deposing dennis
00:46:34
randall to talk to him about his wife's misdealings and to see if that he is in anyhow
00:46:40
involved or knowledgeable about what she was up to now in the end to be perfectly clear
00:46:48
they ruled that he had no knowledge of his wife stealing money so while she was out doing these wrong deeds he doesn't
00:46:56
seem to have any awareness of it right at least off of the based off of their findings but it's
00:47:02
not a good look from the outsider looking in that's going look it's been five years what happened here well you
00:47:09
can't deny that he was distracted correct because of this investigation into his
00:47:15
you know let's just say how it is his dirt bag wife and i don't want to call the delphi double homicide case a
00:47:22
distraction but it certainly doesn't help keep your focus on this horrible situation which has been deemed a crime
00:47:29
it's been deemed an arson right now as far as suspects go i think we can touch on that a little bit here because that's
00:47:36
one thing that's missing from a lot of the news reports i think it's fine right it's been five years indiana state
00:47:43
police i've had your guys's back for a long time when we've talked about delphi and many
00:47:50
other cases but sadly an indiana state is just like any other state there are many cases that are
00:47:56
unsolved but i cannot i'm not going to shy away from my frustration that i'm starting to have with indiana state
00:48:04
police and their poor record so far of clearing these very important cases well that's to say how it is we have six
00:48:12
victims and then thousands of victims that are connected they become victims because they're
00:48:18
connected to the murdered victims yes and those murdered children there's six murdered
00:48:24
children that you have no goddamn answers for come on they're they're batting a zero
00:48:31
right now and i feel like i'm still going to have their backs for a while i'm going to give you another
00:48:37
opportunity here indiana state police but the sad truth of it is in regard to these two cases it's not been a good
00:48:44
look and if you were on my baseball team we probably would have cut you a long time ago well if they don't get their
00:48:49
[ __ ] together i'm cutting their funding well i'll tell you that i'm not going to
00:48:53
send any more beer fund money their way since very few people were talking about
00:48:58
suspects let's try to talk about some suspects here and again this is going to be
00:49:02
speculation on our part as we are not on the inside of this investigation and they've not allowed really anybody on
00:49:09
the inside of this investigation so a man named mike virgin is one of the people who has been on the
00:49:17
inside of this investigation and been inside the house since the fire he runs his own fire investigation company he
00:49:25
was hired by the mother of the four girls and her attorney he has not worked with them for months
00:49:33
by this point but he has said on the record that he still thinks about the house and the
00:49:38
case often he said that he spent more than 15 years as a certified fire investigator with
00:49:45
the atf before starting his own company so this dude's legit right he knows what
00:49:50
he's doing he's been to more than one thousand fire scenes and investigated this one just weeks after it happened
00:49:58
there are still things that he does not want to share even while we're at the five year marker
00:50:04
here here's an exchange from an interview with him and a news team the reporter here is
00:50:12
stephanie zeppelin basically captain he's saying no relation to lead he is saying that
00:50:20
where he thought the fire started is where it started okay so his initial suspicions whatever his initial
00:50:26
suspicions were right when he got there and conducted his investigation his suspicions were confirmed zeppelin
00:50:33
goes on to push him and say and that is where and virgin says i can't really say
00:50:39
right now because if we get to a point in the investigation that they make an arrest
00:50:46
the only people that should know where the fire started is the person who said it and the investigators right he says
00:50:54
that he believes that the fire was an arson but that the goal was not to kill the
00:51:01
children he is also not sure whether everything possible is being done to solve the case
00:51:07
if it's not to kill the children then what was it for why was the fire started he does he's he's being vague on purpose
00:51:15
because he thinks that the answers to these questions would lead you to the person or or may
00:51:23
confirm once you have the correct suspect across from you at the interview table
00:51:31
right well because the delphi case has been covered considerably more than this case
00:51:38
there are people out there that have tried to connect the delphi murders to the floor of fire i think it's fair to
00:51:45
do so we're talking about time and proximity to the two cases are relatively close
00:51:52
and the victimology is very similar we're talking about young girls here in all the situations but to me captain i
00:52:01
look at this and i go in the delphi case those girls were absolutely targeted now how premeditated
00:52:08
that was is up for debate right but here at the floor fire case you could almost say that the house
00:52:17
was targeted and i say that because i did quite a bit of research on serial arsonist
00:52:26
and a lot of times they will start setting fires to structures that are not occupied right and then they will
00:52:34
graduate for a lack of better word to structures that may have occupants inside of them
00:52:41
some of them get so bad and so deranged at some point that they are purposely seeking out a structure
00:52:47
with occupants to set fire to one of the things i start questioning too is like like you said maybe the house
00:52:54
is the target and not the individuals in it because we have it's a it's a duplex
00:53:02
a lot of these older houses they were at one point in a single family home and then
00:53:06
converted into like a duplex or to shared living so again it could just be as simply as
00:53:14
well there's no lock on the back door so this you know droopy dookie dung bucket
00:53:22
found an entrance point into this uh residency if the fire was set inside and that's the interesting thing there to me
00:53:30
because if you have a ruling of arson right typically in these situations and again it doesn't have to be a serial
00:53:37
arsonist but that's the statistics that are available for us to review so that's
00:53:42
the route that i went here and what you have with a serial arsonist typically they are only setting fires to
00:53:50
structures from the inside when they are doing that to structures that they know to be unoccupied right
00:53:58
they're not going into a home or into a business and setting the fire from inside now
00:54:04
the ones that quote graduate to setting fires to structures that are occupied typically they're setting those fires to
00:54:12
those structures on the outside and often if it's a home it would be to the porch area either the front porch or
00:54:19
back porch maybe a garage so something that's attached to the home but not necessarily inside of the home
00:54:27
well again like you said you have to look at the victims surroundings the the the people that
00:54:34
they're involved with in their lives but it's again a shared residency so not just
00:54:41
one side's relatives and their connections but the other side's relatives and connections as well and
00:54:47
one thing that is certainly a possibility here that could leave the door open for
00:54:54
not only the house was itself was targeted but the occupants were somewhat targeted whether they were known by name
00:55:00
or or what have you is look there is a potential that this could be a hate-related crime that this
00:55:09
is some type of hate crime yes we have a small population of people but we only have
00:55:15
about .3 of them being african-american in flora right and this is no i want to be clear here this is no
00:55:24
direct disrespect to the people of flora because you can have an outsider come in and commit a hate
00:55:31
crime in your tiny town and then leave right but it's something that we should examine
00:55:38
you could target that house by saying well i know that african-american people live there
00:55:44
and so that is something that has been speculated on and unfortunately until we have somebody
00:55:50
standing in front of a judge we won't know what the motivating factor was here for the person that set the
00:55:56
fire i want to use the words of the investigators from what little words that they've released to us that i think
00:56:04
might provide some insight to who may have carried out this crime again everything that i'm seeing captain and i
00:56:11
think you might agree with me points to the words that they're saying make it sound like the fire started
00:56:17
inside the home that they believe that it was started inside the home yeah i agree and i think what backs that up is
00:56:25
they're looking at the the range and the stove they're also talking about we we heard
00:56:30
the rumors or early statements that the fire may have started in the kitchen we hear the mother complaining about
00:56:36
outlets not working in the kitchen area and i'm with you i feel like a serial arsonist does not feel likely here but i
00:56:46
did spend a decent amount of time looking into that because for some bizarre reason flora has a terrible
00:56:52
record with house fires and has a what i have to believe is a higher than normal
00:56:58
fatality rate due to house fires at least in the months in the years around this flora case so i went looking into
00:57:06
those because sadly once one thing that is not terribly uncommon when you have a serial arsonist
00:57:13
is that it is in fact a first responder in fact i'll give you a quote here ninety-four percent of serial arsonists
00:57:19
are male very few are caught sixteen percent approximately are caught but set maybe 30 or more fires before
00:57:28
being caught first responders set fires premeditated with intent to return to the fire in a professional capacity
00:57:36
that's beyond strange to me it's not likely but it's not terribly uncommon and like you said not a high success
00:57:45
rate in this town i mean you're having a lot of house fires again some of that is
00:57:51
going to be due to just older buildings and not buildings that are kept up i mean when i lived in richmond indiana
00:58:00
the thing that i was really shocked by you know where i come from in columbus when you're renting you're normally
00:58:06
renting apartment or apartment unit when i lived in richmond if you're renting you're probably more
00:58:12
likely to be renting a house a single family house or a single family house that they turned
00:58:18
into shared living and again not a great success rate anywhere in this country at
00:58:23
solving these arson fires but to give you some kind of background here on what we may be looking for as far as a
00:58:33
speculation into a physical description profile of of a likely offender if it was
00:58:40
somebody that was setting an arson fire that didn't have any ties to the family that wasn't inside the home or was not
00:58:48
invited into the home then what we're probably looking at here captain and these are just national
00:58:54
statistics 44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by white males under i'm sorry
00:59:05
44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by individuals that are under 18 years of
00:59:12
age and 64 are under the age of 25. males make up as we said earlier that high percentage number of offenders
00:59:25
and 75 percent of those arrested are white 23 percent are black so if you're going to put a number if
00:59:34
you're gonna play a numbers game here on the physical description of a likely offender again
00:59:40
if this is an arson not tied directly to the mother or anyone in the family were probably looking for a rather young
00:59:47
guy or somebody that was 25 or even let's even go 29 and under at the time of this fire
00:59:55
and given the makeup of the general area and the statistics that we see nationally
01:00:01
it's highly likely that it might be a white male that committed this crime where the
01:00:08
thing gets tricky is again back to those words makes it sound like they believe that the point of origin to be somewhere
01:00:17
inside the structure which then takes away from the probability of it being a serial
01:00:23
arsonist that makes you go back to what doug carter has said that they don't believe
01:00:28
that they've been given full access to the family or full access to the dynamics and what was going on in and
01:00:35
around that home leading up to the fire meaning let's say it didn't have a faulty lock
01:00:44
we would want to know things right like who had a key who had access to the home
01:00:49
who frequented the home what would they do while they were there these are all things that the indiana
01:00:56
state police would like to know especially if they believe that the fire started inside and
01:01:01
if they believe that it was through the use of accelerants they've probably identified the accelerant now you said
01:01:07
something off mike that is very important to remember people keep accelerants around their homes
01:01:15
they're part of our everyday life this is one of those cases right where we have very little information and
01:01:23
unfortunately it doesn't sound like they feel like they can come off of any of that information because
01:01:28
later a conviction might teeter on the idea of who knows what but also the public is really kind of
01:01:35
handcuffed here where we can't offer much help because we don't know one who they're
01:01:40
suspicious of what kind of accelerant we should be looking out for who was coming and going from that area
01:01:49
and if they're even right if the investigators are even correct that it might be somebody that is tied
01:01:55
to the family well again i want to go back to the possible connection with that delphi i just sent you a picture
01:02:01
through text message it was one of the it was just a news article talking about the floor of fires
01:02:08
it was talking about local businesses donating stuff to the family and you see a worker that looks like he
01:02:16
is coming down the steps and he was probably in charge of boarding up the windows at the time
01:02:24
and this picture kind of sparked a lot of online detectives armchair detectives going
01:02:31
like well look at this guy he kind of looks like bridge guy and kind of looks like he's wearing the
01:02:39
same jacket as bridge guy kind of has that dumpy pouch look in the front of the jacket like he almost has items
01:02:50
in his front pockets or something of the jacket and look i don't i don't know how much
01:02:56
weight there is to this but i i really think it's just simply it was a picture and an image this guy
01:03:03
caught this person's eye or caught these sleuthers eyes and then used this as a possible connection
01:03:11
between delphi and flora fires it feels to me like anybody with eyeballs somebody somebody that can see
01:03:17
has made these comments i feel like bridge guy a lot of people look like him obviously that's one problem that
01:03:24
indiana state police have had in that investigation so many side by sides so many people giving tips that are simply
01:03:31
this guy looks somewhat like him i don't even think that we have a great picture
01:03:36
of delphi of the bridge guy to begin with correct uh so i think that that's caused a lot of confusion and a lot of
01:03:44
problems i see two very different cases here um me too based off i just wanna i just
01:03:50
wanted to point out that like yeah when you see this picture and somebody goes oh well that's happened right by delphi
01:03:56
and doesn't that guy look a little bit like bridge guy somebody could go oh well i could see
01:04:02
somebody going down a rabbit hole and trying to figure out who this individual was and how are they connected uh not
01:04:08
just to the floor of fires but how are they connected to delphi but i think it's a
01:04:14
it's just a rabbit hole well speaking of rabbit holes one that i found myself in
01:04:19
in regards to the serial arsonist or first responder arsonist angle to it this is a very weird portion of the
01:04:28
story and i want to make sure that i cut everyone off at the pass here rather than them contacting me and saying did
01:04:34
you look at this josh dislinger the officer that was one of the good officers that was trying to
01:04:40
help trying to get victims out of this house who was sent to the hospital himself oddly
01:04:48
enough this is not the first time that he's responded to a house fire that has ended in fatality right
01:04:56
from the information i could find captain this is the third situation in about six seven years
01:05:05
where he's responding to a fire and running inside so i want to make sure that we are clear
01:05:12
here that we're not throwing him under the bus because this would be two very different people
01:05:18
that we're talking about one this guy's running into burning buildings trying to save people
01:05:23
that's a much different guy than our suspicions of a first responder serial arsonist right i want to be very clear
01:05:30
about that i also want to make sure that we point out here while the floor of fire that we're discussing today has
01:05:36
been deemed an arson the other two fires that i could find that he was one of the first responders
01:05:42
to in fact i believe he was the first responder to the other fires they were deemed
01:05:48
yeah one was electrical yeah one was an electrical fire and the other uh they know the cause of so we're not talking
01:05:55
about a situation here where he's report repeatedly showing up to arson fires yeah i could see somebody having a
01:06:04
suspicion that oh you start this fire and then you show up and then you save the individuals and
01:06:10
then you become a local hero because of it but again anybody that would do anything
01:06:16
like that is deranged in my opinion one thing i do want to point out and give kudos to a web sleuther for you know i
01:06:24
don't want to i don't want to get too heated at the whole webs luther community here i i like the webs luther
01:06:31
community and yes maybe they come up with some far-fetched ideas sometimes but the more that people are looking
01:06:39
into these cases the more that people are talking about them the more pressure we have on law
01:06:44
enforcement to actually solve these cases i personally i find that the internet has
01:06:51
a lot of far-fetched ideas in these cases as far as the actual web sleuthers go right i feel like they're a lot more
01:06:59
spot-on or more realistic and logical in their pursuit of justice in these cases
01:07:06
so i want to make sure that we point out here something very different from somebody just going oh this guy looks
01:07:12
like that guy um well i do want to point out that true crime garage it's been it's a proven fact
01:07:19
that true crime garage listeners are one the best webs luthers more knowledgeable
01:07:25
on on crime in general and the best looking and best smelling listeners of all true crime podcasts
01:07:36
and that's a fact that is a fact that's backed up by science science and edison research this
01:07:44
is something that's gone unreported or i don't know if that's the correct word here not reported however you want to
01:07:51
put it but one thing that i think that's interesting here is that three weeks before the fire a man named john tayden
01:07:58
filed for divorce from galen rose and again there are literally no reports in any of the media about this
01:08:06
or her even having a husband at all right the only reason we know about this is because a savvy web sleuther user
01:08:15
found the marriage dissolution petition so i'm not saying that there's any that this is any way connected to one another
01:08:24
but it is fact it is something that did happen so we know that john filed for divorce on
01:08:30
october 31st of 2016. and the court website listing the parties to the petition as john's
01:08:39
address was listed in texas so we don't know where he was in relation to flora indiana i mean he
01:08:47
very likely could have been at his home in texas and had been there for weeks and months and months
01:08:53
but that is something that we did uncover when looking into this case well again this case is very confusing you
01:09:00
want to know why law enforcement is saying that she's the mother of these four children what why
01:09:07
she's not being as cooperative as they think they sh that she should be and also could be a situation hey she's
01:09:13
going possibly through this divorce is she afraid to come forward and and to tell law enforcement to look into
01:09:21
different individuals we don't know that could she not trust the investigation itself is where i
01:09:28
think that we might stand here and i think that would make the most sense because look you're not coming out right
01:09:33
away saying whether it's arson or an accident she was very cooperative in the early
01:09:40
parts of this investigation well and maybe her lawyer is saying look because the law enforcement has
01:09:47
flip-flopped back and forth maybe they're going to flip back eventually and say oh you know what more findings
01:09:53
we don't think this is arson well part of it and will that affect a later lawsuit a civil lawsuit down the
01:10:02
line part of it too though galen lives in california now which last time i looked at a map is
01:10:08
nowhere near indiana and so where the investigation decided may have stalled and where we have
01:10:17
indiana state police on record saying we don't feel like the family's being overly cooperative with us at this point
01:10:25
in our investigation i i would like to know why are we to believe that who is at fault
01:10:32
because of that is it simply that she doesn't live in indiana anymore and we've not made a great deal of effort to
01:10:40
speak with her or is it simply the fact that she was a mother of four children that died in a
01:10:46
fire and some people don't recover from that well that's why she moved to california
01:10:51
she said you know early on the the the community and she has thanked the community time and time
01:10:57
again her and her family have thanked the community for their handling of this tragic situation and the way that they
01:11:03
treated her and her family afterwards and tried to lift them up in any way that they
01:11:08
possibly could but you know she said i couldn't live there anymore i i lived there with my four children i drove by
01:11:15
that house it's near downtown florida she's like i would pass that house and my my
01:11:22
life would be ruined over and over again yeah i'm waking up to the same nightmare
01:11:27
every day well i'm thinking about like her job like you said if she's a gas station attendant the amount of locals
01:11:35
she's seeing every day you know if i went into that gas station i'd want to give her a hug out i'd want to tell her
01:11:40
hey i'm sorry for your loss hearing that hundreds and hundreds of times a day as as heart
01:11:47
felt as it might be it just it's like a dagger every time and sadly what i'm worried about here captain as
01:11:54
more time passes we know how all these cases go be it arson or otherwise it just becomes less likely
01:12:03
that we will get justice for these four girls and that we will get some answers this
01:12:09
is such a tragic case take the time to go to our instagram or twitter or facebook we'll be posting
01:12:18
pictures of these four beautiful girls and other photos that are related to this case you
01:12:25
can find those again true crime garage wherever twitter facebook instagram indiana state police
01:12:33
are still investigating this sad and tragic case they are still looking for the person or persons responsible
01:12:41
they would like information leading to the arrest of those persons or the person
01:12:47
responsible for this fire remember four young girls were killed in their flora indiana
01:12:54
home on november 21st 2016. this was determined to be an arson fire there is a reward for information if you have any
01:13:03
information please please reach out to the indiana state police you can call them at 1-800-382-4628
01:13:14
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recommending that you go cheer yourself up and enjoy some really damn good music
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travis until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Applause] [Music] you