00:00:00
[Music] is it possible to predict the unpredictable could surgeons use a patient's own Anatomy to create 3D
00:00:07
printed life-size organ models to map out challenges ahead of time making surgery more precise efficient and less
00:00:15
invasive is it possible it already is because every day we're doing what's never been done learn more at
00:00:23
mayoclinic.org soss mayoclinic you know where to go when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley
00:00:33
has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special financing options available you can
00:00:39
snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of better sleep to children in need and US
00:00:47
Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
00:00:57
subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Music] details [Music]
00:01:48
[Music] welcome back in a reminder here as we get into episode two and further along
00:02:17
with our interview with Philip Klein of Klein investigations and Consulting that
00:02:23
this is an ongoing investigation little dorcons is still missing where coming up on 8 years now
00:02:31
and if you have any information or if client investigations has some information part
00:02:38
of the information but needs a little bit more and you can clarify something for them in their investigation please
00:02:45
make sure that you reach out to the investigating agencies here because the captain and I both feel like there are
00:02:52
just a couple of questions that need to be answered to seal this investigation up and really figure out what happened
00:03:01
here and maybe bring forward charges in this investigation and find the little boy and his remains yeah and anybody
00:03:10
that's been following this case we we really felt like this interview is really important to release because both
00:03:18
me and the colonel have followed this case very closely and had some questions and I I think Philip does a great job of
00:03:27
painting a clearer picture of what possibly happen the investigating agency in this case is the LI High County
00:03:34
Sheriff's Office they can be contacted at 208 756 8980 or you can go to their website if
00:03:43
you are uncomfortable with speaking with someone from law enforcement for any reason at all you can most certainly
00:03:50
contact Philip Klein or any of his colleagues at Klein investigations their website is KL EI n
00:04:01
investigations.com and their phone number is 49729 8798 and now we get to our questions for
00:04:11
client investigations as we go into part [Music] two if we're covering up an accident
00:04:25
okay you could take us through maybe what would be the penalty for a parent involved in some kind of accident
00:04:33
resulting in the the fatality of their youngster but a big question I have here is did you guys find anything to suggest
00:04:43
that Vernal was involved in drug use and or regular drug use well so the answer to that question is yes there are
00:04:55
suggestions that he had used meth from time to time according to the family members again I don't know how much meth
00:05:03
he was into but it was enough to raise the r of the family I think Jessica also told us that he used a little bit but
00:05:13
Jessica Jessica isn't the Virgin Mary in all this now she she misled us as well which goes back to that interview after
00:05:22
we were fired by Jessica well actually by vernell's father uh and hired by another family member uh that now famous
00:05:31
interview that's all I think you can get it on the interview uh and and and even
00:05:37
the media people missed it but they got it during dubbing and they called us and
00:05:41
said hey you need to get a copy of this where Vernal she's doing the interview and they say hold on we've got to change
00:05:47
a battery so while they're changing the battery on one of the cameras the other camera's just a rolling I mean it's just
00:05:55
rolling and vernal gets over to her and looks at her and go goes do not use past
00:06:02
tense words use present tense words she goes what don't say was say is something
00:06:12
to that effect and I'm paraphrasing again and she looks at him and she just rolls her eyes and shakes her head but
00:06:19
she changes the backside of the interview to use present day tense and that kind of that's when we all went
00:06:29
okay now now we know that's when we kind of went okay that nothing that comes out
00:06:33
of their mouth is going to be the truth and they wouldn't talk about it with law
00:06:37
enforcement Mr uh Browning shut down their Communications with law enforcement at that point and and I I'm
00:06:44
going down the drug route because of multitude of reasons but at the most simple is his job he's a he's a trucker
00:06:52
and I know that with with a lot of those types of jobs and on the job or even off
00:06:58
the job accident results in mandatory drug testing to keep your job and where where somebody might be wondering well
00:07:07
why would they if it was truly just an accident why go to these Great Lengths to cover it up well there's there's
00:07:13
other things at stake for uh for Vernal well I think here yes you are absolutely right that is part of the
00:07:23
equation yes you're you're very you're very good at that but let me say B I want you to hear this
00:07:30
is that they didn't know the law now if they had picked up the phone and said there was an accident or if they had
00:07:38
confessed to the FBI and said yeah we buried the baby in a cooler right and then at a later time and date after
00:07:47
everybody had left and we said we were going up there to do searches we got the cooler out of the ground and we took it
00:07:53
over to the dumpster to a dumpster SE uh which will lead us to where we are today
00:08:00
uh and it was delivered into a landfill because remember those guys don't look inside their dumpsters they just come up
00:08:06
with their big trucks and dump it in the dumpster how many bodies have we found in in the landfills so um I I I think
00:08:14
they didn't know the law and I think that they were probably thinking they would have gone to jail for the rest of
00:08:19
their lives when in fact all of the police officers were telling them look you're not going to jail for the rest of
00:08:28
your life if you did this is in in Idaho it's called tampering with the body it's
00:08:33
a Class C misdemeanor like a traffic ticket like going 75 and a 55 all you have to do is admit to it be done with
00:08:43
it pay your fine maybe do two days in jail at the worst who knows what they would have done up in limh high what are
00:08:51
you gonna do tell us I mean God make this all go away because at that point we had Nancy Grace involved we had had
00:09:00
oh my God Dr Phil wanted the the children over there and then me faced the the I'm the the two adults me faced
00:09:08
the two adults because he had read what we had been putting out because we had to put out something they weren't our
00:09:14
clients anymore and that's when the sheriff came out said they're suspects and then that's when the media came to
00:09:20
us say What's your opinion and we said we don't see anything wrong with what the sheriff has said where where the
00:09:25
sheriff is we're with law enforcement on this one because you know I'm not their
00:09:30
defense investigator right I'm I'm the guy just trying to find the body or the kid right and that's when all the Miss
00:09:39
that's when all the misnomers went out from from people that lived in Idaho Falls that knew the
00:09:48
attorney that knew Jessica and vernal and I think you know once people started going you know once you start putting
00:09:55
that doubt in people's mind uh you know I think they were trying to imp in a jury pool I think they were uh but
00:10:03
because they knew we were getting close and then all of a sudden they made the decision they were going to sue us for
00:10:10
contract violation and we were like you can't sue us for that that and and because the truth is the Ultimate
00:10:18
Defense that's our famous saying around here the truth is the ultimate defense and there's been you know many people
00:10:25
since 1992 that have tried to file some type of legal action saying well you guys
00:10:32
didn't do your jobs you didn't find my kid and we said well yeah we did it's the body and this is again before DNA
00:10:38
was real big and then they find out oh in fact way did and the suits dropped to people that we've named as suspects and
00:10:46
then the judges and the juries get a hold of the information and they go oh no no no no these guys are not liable
00:10:53
these guys know what they're doing because when we get on the stand we tell the story and we tell it in a concise
00:10:58
manner that people will understand so I think I think that the misinformation plays started and I think once the
00:11:07
lawsuit was filed Witnesses clammed up everybody kind of went I don't want to be involved in that and the judge
00:11:14
dismissed the lawsuit immed not immediately I think after about five six months the judge dismissed the lawsuit
00:11:19
the interesting part of the lawsuit was it was only Vernal suing Vernal and his father it wasn't
00:11:27
Jessica Jessica didn't didn't sue us so what you're saying out of the four people that were up there the mother the
00:11:34
father and the grandfather know what happened but maybe the mother's not saying anything because or not suing you
00:11:42
guys because she feels more guilty about what happened yeah yeah listen I I met their attorney uh I like the guy I think
00:11:52
he's a great guy I thinks he's a nice guy uh he just was defending his clients he's kind of a bulldog which is fine you
00:11:58
got to you know he's he's not a Denny Crane he's not an allen Shore he's he's just one of those guys that shut the
00:12:05
hell up his pleadings are very very mean uh and and that's some attorneys I've met nice attorneys mean attorney he's a
00:12:13
mean attorney I think that in the end um you know Vern's daddy died right and um
00:12:23
during the middle of the lawsuit uh I think Vernal was out there on his own and we were fixing to start deposit
00:12:29
positions and that was not going to go the right way for Vernal uh because he knew that we knew everything and and and
00:12:38
I think he started becoming a little shaky but we went ahead to the judge and said judge you know look uh they wanted
00:12:46
to file a motion to dismiss with attorney's fees we said no we're going to fight that wee presented what we knew
00:12:53
the judge came back after about a week and said no uh Klein's good his information is good the truth is the
00:13:00
Ultimate Defense uh Mr Coons you've lied over all this stuff uh and he said it you know kind of an app pleading he
00:13:08
didn't come out and say you're a liar he came out and just said no you know it's
00:13:12
not working for you Mr Coons and the truth is the ultimate defense and so therefore uh under under the law you are
00:13:22
uh I'm dismissing the case and not only I'm dismissing the case but I'm giving Mr Klein's insurance company Mr Klein
00:13:29
the opportunity to collect their legal fees which were well over $100,000 immediately did a asset check
00:13:37
on Vernal and his dad's estate and they they don't they don't have any money they got zero dollars uh so why would I
00:13:46
want to spend another 25,000 to get leans on people that have no money I mean it's just a waste of my money and
00:13:52
it's a waste of time so we let it go we just let it go and I I think that uh at that point Trina C brought in a guy
00:14:02
named David marshburn he's also a private investigator and marshburn went out to the site and his dog
00:14:09
interestingly enough we've never said this publicly because we've all kind of just sat back and kind of wanted to
00:14:15
watch what Marsh bur would do uh but marshburn sided up with uh with uh uh Mr Browning that was uh Vernal Coon's
00:14:26
lawyer marshburn's dog hit in the same place that we our dogs hit so it's kind of like oh I found a bone and this is
00:14:34
going to blow this case wide open and all this other stuff we were like well if you found a bone [ __ ] you're better
00:14:40
than us yay and uh because you know we one thing we do here is we keep a positive attitude we really do we keep a
00:14:49
positive attitude it's not about who finds a child it's about finding the child right so if people have other eyes
00:14:56
yay go get them right that's what that's the way we feel here okay so when marshburn started coming out on TV and
00:15:05
radio and oh I found my dogs found scent and he went all over Facebook and he had
00:15:11
pictures of himself up on Facebook and with the dogs and everything we were like go Dog go let's go maybe we were
00:15:18
wrong it's okay to be wrong right it's okay it's okay to be wrong everybody looks at is that's terrible and horrible
00:15:24
but it's okay to be wrong if you do it in good faith if you do it in bad bad faith you lie and you're trying to get
00:15:30
away with something that's bad but that's kind of how we handled it well Marsh Burn's bone turned out to be an
00:15:37
old deer bone from back and they said I think they were telling us it was uh oh my goodness back in
00:15:46
19 I think they said in the 90s the 80s it was just an old bone from a deer uh and and all the sudden marshburn has
00:15:53
disappeared from the case so that's been kind of interesting he's kind of disappeared but he did show up on
00:16:00
YouTube with Mr Browning calling me names calling my company names calling everybody names well and you see that
00:16:05
with online Luthers with YouTube creators podcast creators where everybody wants to be the genius or the
00:16:14
expert of a certain case and it really doesn't matter who solves this case or who figures out where this boy is and
00:16:22
how we get the remains back as long as it gets done yeah and inter interestingly enough
00:16:29
when we found out marshburn was involved I sent David a a letter and I followed it up with a phone call saying hey you
00:16:38
may be better than us raah raw let's go get them I'm going to load everything up
00:16:42
into Banker boxes I've got to be out in South Carolina on a in a meeting where I
00:16:48
was teaching I why don't I just drive up the road and uh you know you and I can sit in a room and we'll grab some pizza
00:16:55
and some coke and we'll sit on the floor and you can go through every one of our
00:16:59
files I have permission from my client to allow you to go through every one of my files and you know what he said I
00:17:07
don't want to go through your files I don't want anything to do with you and that kind of went what what' we do to
00:17:14
you dude what why we we didn't crap in your backyard what's going on so um you're the one that came and crapped in
00:17:24
our backyard so we're trying to extend you know good faith gesture to you saying maybe you are smarter than us
00:17:32
let's go through the file together let's go through the interviews let's get a the TV setup and we'll bring sticks and
00:17:38
you can watch every interview and you can you can do all this stuff and then if you want to do a podcast he does
00:17:44
podcast we said if you want to do a podcast let's do a podcast together I'll answer any question you have let's work
00:17:51
together tell us to go blow literally go screw yourself I think was the words and we we were like and he
00:17:59
cursed me out like I've never used the FW all these other words and we were like dude what are you doing what what's
00:18:07
going on aren't we just supposed to all be working together find a kid and U so that's how marshburn came in Philip
00:18:14
let's go through some things real quick kind of short answers what yes no because there's a couple things I want
00:18:19
to make sure that we get to before we run out of time uh just to kind of answer some
00:18:25
quick rapid fire type questions some boxes for those listening so what what you're saying is that your through
00:18:33
interviews and through the your findings your evidence it is of your opinion that
00:18:40
there some kind of accidental death led to the death of this little boy and the parents then cover it up
00:18:49
stop me when I get to something that I'm wrong no no you're right you're right you're right they they they conceal the
00:18:55
body near the scene of where they are air quotes camping um and probably Vernal sitting
00:19:03
there awfully nervous hoping they don't find what they've concealed so that it can be moved later right and then your
00:19:12
findings and things that you've uncovered suggest that we probably if you were to find the remains it's likely
00:19:20
in in the landfill somewhere and then Bob Walton uh passes away and basically he may not know exactly what happened
00:19:31
but it sounds like he wasn't willing to budge he may not have been there when it
00:19:35
happened but he he's he's accepted it for what it is and choosing not to talk uh leading up to
00:19:44
his death and then the with Isaac he's a bit of a scapegoat because Mom and Dad can point
00:19:53
to him and go well he's kind of this weird guy that we don't really know and he's there on this trip but there's
00:20:00
nothing to suggest that Isaac was up to to no good and and Isaac is interviewed by you guys on multiple occasions he's
00:20:09
the only one of the four that is giving a consistent story and his story it sounds like to me is I'm
00:20:18
a that Dior was there the day before and then the next morning wakey wakey eggs and bakey I didn't I don't see Dior
00:20:25
after that exactly and so so it so at some point they conceal the remains and now
00:20:35
bring us up to speed of some rather interesting finds that you guys had as far as post offense Behavior as far as
00:20:45
uh post coverup behavior from Mom and Dad who just lost mysteriously lost their two and a half-year-old little boy
00:20:55
well at first they start out and they go on the this campaign Philip Klein's bad
00:21:00
which is normal I mean you know we've had suspects do that all the time Philip Klein's normal horrible terrible type
00:21:07
guy so we know right then okay something's coming so a lot of the news media does the three-year anniversary
00:21:15
the five-year anniversary the eight-year anniversary and in these interviews they
00:21:20
say oh we go up all of the time and we search for the baby up there in the mountains when in fact we are already
00:21:28
know because consequently Us in law enforcement are up there in the mountains kind of watching who's coming
00:21:34
and going they hadn't been up there they've never gone up there they've gone up there maybe one time one time they
00:21:41
went up there and that was to do an interview with the news media right and so we kind of went um now this
00:21:52
is during the litigation phase they were just trying to put on a good front which
00:21:55
is fine it's okay so that's the first thing the second thing is that we when you leave people alone they have a
00:22:05
tendency to be who they really are Vernal moves out of Idaho Falls and goes down to I guess Las Vegas Nevada Little
00:22:13
Town North Las Vegas but we'll call it Las Vegas and he's gonna be a trucker and he's doing his Trucking thing and so
00:22:21
during that time we get what we call a UC an undercover uh not an investigator but an
00:22:29
undercover plant and she makes contact with Vernal and vernal we start going hm okay Vernal you know what are you up to
00:22:41
and so she makes friends with them and they're talking on the internet and they talk on Facebook and then out of nowhere
00:22:49
this UC starts sending us pictures that Vernal sending to himself very graphic pornography pictures of himself
00:23:00
to this girl and she goes what do you want us to do I said Keep It Coming let's go let's see what he's all about
00:23:07
and so that's one thing that happen so we're kind of like okay in the pictures you can see some pretty scandalous stuff
00:23:16
I don't really want to talk about it because I can't test it and make sure it is what it is but some pretty scandalous
00:23:23
stuff then after that he figures out oh no I've been duped this is an undercover
00:23:29
agent that uh undercover witness that his clients put on to me and so he blows up and goes
00:23:38
crazy so we in the process uh begin to um REO back over our notes now there's a time period in there
00:23:49
six-month time period where we kind of let everything just kind of go cool we just want everything to kind of go cool
00:23:56
so when we decide to crank back up that the client calls us another client calls
00:24:00
us and says I'm sisters with this one I want to get you guys back involved we're
00:24:06
like ah you know we've already dropped out we don't know then they say please M Mr Klein would you do this and to Mrs
00:24:14
gear and Mrs gear please so we did we say okay you know no money foundation will cover the expenses too at this
00:24:22
point which by the way my company has about almost 200 $1,000 invested in this case of our money right of our money not
00:24:34
anybody else's money of our money and people say why the hell especially people in the media say why the hell you
00:24:40
do that well you know what it's not about us and it's not about them it's about finding this little baby to put
00:24:47
this little baby to rest well when you do it as long as we do it and you're successful at it as we are there's
00:24:54
something inside your body and soul that tells you you can't walk away from it this is one of those cases I just can't
00:25:00
walk away I just I can't I can't I just see that little boy's face and it kills me because I have a little grandson that
00:25:07
you know has that same little face Innocents happy you know all little blonde hair big boots you know a little
00:25:14
bit so we crank back up and the first thing I want to do is thing called a peer review y'all know peer reviews do
00:25:22
y'all ever talk about those where you get other private investigators that are on your level to you send them the you
00:25:29
send them we call it the Box you send them the box and they go through everything you've done and some of those
00:25:34
can get pretty rough I mean they can say why did you do this why did you ask this
00:25:37
question I know a lot of them have asked me that have reviewed my case why' you throw the laptop across the room and it
00:25:46
was just out of total frustration of this guy I knew he knew what happened to that child I just knew Bob new I just
00:25:54
knew it you just know when you interview as many people as we've interviewed I think uh when I saw Holmes start turning
00:26:01
red and getting angry and you know the guy was just kind of laughing at us and saying they can screw and have another
00:26:08
baby and we were like what I mean that's how blatant it is and so um the peer review came back to us and said no you
00:26:17
guys are right on track other than a couple of things you shouldn't have F on the laptop you shouldn't
00:26:22
have oh I think there was a you should have confronted uh earlier you should have confronted U Vernal in person with
00:26:32
what you had on the blood you should have you know there's a bunch of stuff we should have done which looking back
00:26:37
they're probably right I mean you know it was In the Heat of the Moment and that sort of thing
00:26:42
so we after peer review was done we said okay let's go back over everything we've
00:26:48
everything we have done and we did that and what we came back to is the missing uh cooler right and the the um
00:26:59
dumpsters that were down at the bottom of the hill 7 miles away and we started making out a path a
00:27:07
path towards okay what if Vernal and Jessica went down there and they they watch the dumpsters and which would fit
00:27:17
the timeline it would fit everything right perfect and they got that cooler and they dumped it in the uh uh they
00:27:24
dumped it in the uh dumpster interestingly enough the guy at the uh the guy at the uh gas
00:27:32
when a gas station the feed store uh did say yeah there was a cooler on the truck
00:27:38
so and it just and so we kind of thought to ourselves well you know maybe Vern was going down to get ice there was no
00:27:44
ice purchase so that was kind of a Miss by us and law enforcement um and so uh at that point uh we kind of feel what
00:27:53
happened the working Theory we're working with now is that uh that he buried the body up there covered it up
00:28:01
put it as all the people arrived there was a guy out there directing traffic to where to park your cars and don't park
00:28:07
it in the crime scene area which is of course right there at the uh uh at the cattle guard right remember the cattle
00:28:16
guard cattle guard comes into play in this thing and uh so we feel that uh the working Theory we're working with based
00:28:23
upon the information we've gotten from Witnesses is that uh that the the cooler was most likely used buried there
00:28:33
covered up after everybody left they eventually Somebody went back up there and got that cooler and put it in the
00:28:39
dumpster down south or in retrospect they laid the body there they came down with the cooler put the body in the
00:28:47
cooler and they sat down there and watched the uh uh the dumpster area when everybody was gone there was nobody else
00:28:55
around because remember they were up there during a pretty busy Peri period of time uh they got the cooler and they
00:29:00
threw it in one of the dumpsters and covered it up with trash uh and the dumpster guy came and
00:29:05
got it and they just got lucky they got [Music] lucky this show is sponsored by better
00:29:24
help do you look forward to the holidays maybe struggle with seasonal Blues this
00:29:29
time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something
00:29:35
new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something
00:29:41
to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're
00:29:49
thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:29:54
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:29:59
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:30:06
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garag toay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
00:30:15
hp.com garage is it possible to predict the unpredictable could surgeons use a patient's own Anatomy to create 3D
00:30:27
printed life-size organ models to map out challenges ahead of time making surgery more precise efficient and less
00:30:35
invasive is it possible it already is because every day we're doing what's never been done learn more at
00:30:44
mayoclinic.org Sloss Mayo Clinic you know where to go dreaming of overseas Adventures or
00:30:53
connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridge bries the language Gap I've tried others but
00:30:59
Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game changers dive into 25 Languages by
00:31:06
learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime membership now
00:31:13
and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50% want to grow your business in the
00:31:23
next 12 months it starts with your culture in sparity a leading HR provider since 1986 can help your business create
00:31:29
a culture that drives growth download their free ebook the future of business is culture at insperity.com with the
00:31:37
right people processes and values in place your company can realize its full potential set your business up for
00:31:42
growth download the free ebook at insperity.com Insperity HR that makes a [Music]
00:31:56
difference all right we are back cheers mates tall cans in the air Captain yeah to the
00:32:05
people in the back very fascinating stuff like I said to me it just paints a clearer picture and I have a way better
00:32:14
understanding of the case and and possibly what went down that that horrible tragic camping trip and the
00:32:23
situation has always been a strange one right Captain you got this missing child
00:32:30
and part of you cannot help but feel bad for the four individuals that were there
00:32:37
on the camping trip the the great-grandfather the mother the Father the the friend Isaac because they're all
00:32:44
wrapped up in this and and some of the people on this trip have lost someone too right and that always makes it very
00:32:51
conflicting when you're trying to look at these stories and trying to tear through the details and get a better
00:32:59
understanding of what happened because you have that that that lingering thought in the back of your mind that
00:33:07
these could be people that are very much hurting as well well now what we're getting as you said a clearer picture a
00:33:14
better understanding of what likely took place within a 24-hour time period and it seems to be the the the most
00:33:24
impressive thing and alarming thing at the same time that's been uncovered by client investigations and
00:33:32
Consulting is that not only do the parents know what happened to their son but Vernal the father is steering the
00:33:41
ship and controlling the narrative and likely controlling some of the other players or influencing some of the other
00:33:50
players here in this matter yeah again lies upon lies but also then asking for sympathy from the
00:34:02
public this is this is where it just gets where you stop feeling bad for these individuals and and you start
00:34:11
questioning why aren't they just telling law enforcement the truth and exactly you're exactly right there Captain
00:34:18
because not only do we have other family members who are putting up their time their money their resources into trying
00:34:28
to assist in an investigation that will tell us what happened to Dior or in the early stages hopefully find him but keep
00:34:37
in mind in the early stages of this investigation what what Philip Klein does not mention is that the general
00:34:45
public came together and raised almost $30,000 to assist Vernal and Jessica in in the hopes of finding their son yeah
00:34:55
and where is the the Justice and where is the Peace for this little boy the only Justice the only peace that could
00:35:01
come for this little boy little Dior Coons is now in the hands of the investigators is now in the people that
00:35:09
are charged with investigating this case and figuring out exactly what happened let's get back to our interview with
00:35:18
Philip Klein so Phillip you were talking about some of the weird actions of the father but do we have any weird actions
00:35:26
that we can speak about how the mother was acting afterwards yeah she she she was very
00:35:35
submissive very submissive to Vernal very submissive very and we kind of were looking at that going did you threaten
00:35:46
her and I tried to ask her the question she knew where I was going with it and she wouldn't answer me she just went on
00:35:53
to something else I asked her the question do you feel threatened in any way you know by Vernal or anybody else
00:35:58
in vernell's family or anybody in your family for that matter uh you know we asked that
00:36:04
question and she wouldn't answer it so we didn't find anything to pinpoint a more exact time of when the cooler could
00:36:12
have been moved after law enforcement we do know we do know the pickup times which was
00:36:20
Tuesday and Friday I think and so it would have been Friday of after that Thursday night that it was picked up and
00:36:26
moved moved uh and or it was dumped into one of the bigger trucks and the bigger
00:36:31
trucks went out to the landfill so you can kind of assume what we're doing right now is we're going
00:36:37
through it's called uh it's called tagging the landfill we're going out with what you because they keep track of
00:36:44
everything out those landfills they know they know what truck delivered it they know what truck picked up the trash what
00:36:51
truck dumped the trash where they know that stuff at the landfills so you you know we're going through a period of uh
00:36:59
of Imaging and and marking and all the other good stuff that we do so if your guys' theory is correct on what happened
00:37:06
and this is an accident something bad happened they covered up so do you think the mother's just not coming forward
00:37:13
because she is afraid for her safety if she speaks out a turn I think so I think
00:37:19
the way she acted the way she dropped out of the lawsuit you know Jessica and she'd given up uh she'd given up her
00:37:28
other two children to the daddy um her other baby daddy um I I just think Jessica um I don't know what to say
00:37:40
about Jessica she's definitely a narcissist in my opinion uh she's definitely hiding
00:37:47
something in my opinion I think she's definitely knows more than she's telling the general public law enforcement and
00:37:55
of course she's never going to talk to us again in my opinion the smartest thing for
00:37:59
Jessica to do is pick up the phone and call us as PSB investigators Private Security Board investigators uh because
00:38:07
we're civil we're not criminal we can't charge her and sit down with us and tell
00:38:11
us the story I'd hate to be Jessica Mitchell and carry this on my in my heart in my back I i'
00:38:20
i' and knowing one day we all are going to die right and knowing one day that she's going to die
00:38:27
and she's going to have to face uh you know our Lord and savior and uh if she ever gets a chance to see him I mean
00:38:34
that's just what I'm saying I don't know I don't I I just don't know what else to
00:38:40
say on that uh Jessica I believe is the one that will break first uh and and finally say something either that or
00:38:49
she's my belief is she's probably going to end up in a mental institution I I there's she's gone
00:38:54
through so many men she go she picks bad men drug addicts bad guys like uh I think Vernal is a very bad guy picks
00:39:04
Vernal she doesn't pick good men and uh I I think she's searching for something and uh you know and she and you know
00:39:14
when she's lying because her voice goes up two octaves and she screams so you know when you got her in a lie and she
00:39:22
never looks at you that's one thing that I always bothered me about her during the interview is uh my interview with
00:39:29
her was that she would never look at me she'd always look to the left and down and anybody who takes any type of
00:39:35
interview courses knows what that means they just they're they're trying to DEC contct with you and they're just trying
00:39:41
to tell you a lie is there any evidence that the father was abusive towards the son towards the 2-year-old or abusive
00:39:52
towards his wife you know I I don't I don't I don't know and that that's always been a discussion now you're
00:40:00
coming into the investigator's conference room where we all sit and we all are on the on I guess what what do
00:40:06
we call it now Skype or whatever zoom and we're all in the room and we're all talking and we're all going over okay
00:40:13
well do you think Vernal could have beat the crap at him and hurt him high on meth and I'm kind of like if he is he's
00:40:20
a cold blooded killer but that's what the sheriff the old Sheriff thinks if they won't come out and they were
00:40:28
offered a deal you know everybody says well they were offered immunity yes they were from a Class C
00:40:35
misdemeanor if they won't agree to a Class C misdemeanor which is a traffic ticket which is a $200 fine and if
00:40:43
you're lucky a day in jail if they won't agree to that like the old Sheriff say Bowerman said he looked me right in the
00:40:50
eyes he said well if they won't take that deal what deal is it what did they really do think about that did you guys
00:40:59
uncover anything that I mean shortly after they come down off of the mountain that you found to be odd behavior from
00:41:07
oh yeah all over the place from the point of telling us that the baby was knocking on the window talking to the
00:41:13
guy that was pumping the gas to the guy that was pumping the gas said there was no kid in that car to the to the to the
00:41:18
stage shop it was unusual for them to go into that long di tribe and say oh he was running around everybody was
00:41:24
laughing at him there was a long line of people we go back and look at the register
00:41:29
inputs there was no long line of people and and and we talked to the lady that actually rung it up and she said there
00:41:35
was no small kid in here to the Beer guy who said there was I never put anybody like that up in my truck to the truck
00:41:42
guy that said we found the truck guy he said no I never I never did that what what are youall talking about you know
00:41:49
the these are the weird things these stories they made up that they really in in in my opinion
00:41:57
that they thought we would fall for Hook Line and Sinker yeah it's almost like they didn't think anybody would check on
00:42:03
their stories yeah nobody can check that they can't find these people it's a year
00:42:07
or two down the line now they can't find them well if you can't find them a year
00:42:11
or two down the line you're not a very good investigator right so I don't know we have a great team here and they're
00:42:18
really good at what they do and you know sure enough they walk in here with these
00:42:21
long faces and say yeah I found the I found the beer guy I I never forget that uh Charlie walking in saying I found the
00:42:27
beer guy oh cool what' the beer guy say did did he B you know did he play with a
00:42:31
little Dior did he he never saw a little deal so when they were offered this immunity basically from law enforcement
00:42:39
did they have to show where the body was or produced the body yep had to tell them where the body was and if they
00:42:46
would have produced his body and they ran test and did an autopsy and and found out that their story wasn't true
00:42:54
or they weren't being truthful they then could have been in big trouble for that
00:42:58
they could lying to a federal agent that's big money right big money you with me yeah but so law
00:43:08
enforcement is just tell us the truth tell us what happened tell us what happened and if we can verify what your
00:43:15
story is the least we'll charge you with is a misdemeanor that's what we'll charge you
00:43:24
with is which is a Mis misdemeanor and they wouldn't take the deal so like the sheriff told me he said
00:43:31
Phillip he said I know you're not a you're not a uh you're you're not a uh uh a criminal investigator but you're
00:43:39
pretty good at what you do he said let me just present it to you this way and that's how he presented it to me and I
00:43:45
was kind of like wow you know what dude you're right you're right they won't take a
00:43:52
misdemeanor plea and they won't show us what happened with the body now his attorney spun it big time his attorney
00:44:00
spun it as oh well they just don't know and we were like you you don't know wait
00:44:07
a minute what are you telling us here um again it's all just built on lies and you can't and once you're presented with
00:44:16
a lie that's it it's over okay we're we're we're we got you what philli what is the sex shop story that so okay let
00:44:26
me set it up for you we call yeah well well actually let me let me Lead You In with this so Dior Coons and you you
00:44:35
correct me if I'm wrong on anything Dior Coons Jr little boy two and a half years
00:44:40
old missing reported missing July 10th right and then we are spending all this time with all these efforts with with
00:44:48
lots of technology and resources up on the mountain looking for the little boy we
00:44:55
don't find him Saturday July 18th is Father's day and on this day Vernal spins the day camped out just yards away
00:45:07
from where his son air quotes disappeared from now where's the sex shop story taking
00:45:14
place so when we present everything we've got to Jessica Vernal sitting in the parking
00:45:22
lot in his car waiting on Jess to come out 1 hour turns into five 5 hours turns into seven and then I guess Jessica's
00:45:33
mother shows up in the seventh or eighth hour and says okay that's enough we're done so she she walks out uh Jessica
00:45:42
walks out of the police station we're all just kind of we all in another room watching the interview just shaking our
00:45:48
heads Jessica walks out and gets in a car and then vernals in that car now you would think after seven eight hours in
00:45:59
an interrogation like you've never seen an interrogation before they had nice people come in mean people come in they
00:46:05
had psychologists come in I mean they were really working her you would think a person would be so tired that they'd
00:46:12
say just take me home I just want to go home and take a shower I just I just I need to lay down right that's what i' do
00:46:19
I don't know about y'all and I'm a big strong guy couple glasses of wine so I I'm a big strong guy carries a gun for a
00:46:25
living I guarantee if I went if I went into that type of atmosphere I mean I guarantee you I'd go
00:46:32
home and say I'd sleep for a couple of days but no they get in the car and they drive over to a sex
00:46:40
shop they go into the sex shop and of course we've got it all on video clone my winky they okay they buy a product
00:46:49
called clone my winky and and and and she's just out of an FBI interview and so they laugh and
00:46:58
they're cutting up and they're doing all this stuff well they immediately take it
00:47:02
and take it home because there was not only we were following them but the FBI was following them so it's like
00:47:08
everybody's following these people they go home and the lights go out and boom it's over for the day well we're sitting
00:47:16
there going what is this and that's when the sheriff actually got mad he said I'm
00:47:23
telling you she's some kind of narcissist and I was like she's some kind of something but you know I'm not a
00:47:30
doctor of medicine and I can't give I can't give diagnosis but I've never seen that before even with people that were
00:47:39
not that were guilty they walk out of there thinking aha I beat him again right I I've never seen that they've
00:47:46
usually walked out of there with tears in their eyes or they're red in the face or they're hungry or they're something I
00:47:52
i' I've never seen that before there the both both of them have have in my opinion based upon how I've been
00:48:01
trained has some type of narcissistic personality disorder where as the sheriff said if it wasn't an accident it
00:48:10
has to be a murder or an intentional murder that's where law enforcement is right now why would you hide the body
00:48:19
why would you they don't you know why she spends how many six seven eight hours seven hours hours of actual
00:48:26
interview time of video that we have but I'd say she'd been in there nine hours at least and and it's it and reliving
00:48:35
the traumatizing experience of losing your child and and having no clue as to what happened to them and probably even
00:48:43
being accused of horrible things during that time period during the questioning and then to cap off the day on the way
00:48:51
home we stop by the sex shop and uh celebrate before yeah but see I don't know if I lean towards that that's
00:48:58
something wrong with her more so that it's it's like what the captain's saying here is
00:49:06
the power and control side of it right Captain well yeah well yeah because what I'm saying is like you know that's an
00:49:11
abusive tactic from from men to go well in order for me to believe what you said
00:49:16
to the cops you're going to do this sexual act for me or or whatever it is so I I wonder how how how abusive you
00:49:25
know verbally mentally you know that relationship was um because to to me that doesn't seem
00:49:35
like a a thing a normal thing but I could I could see abusive man going okay well
00:49:43
you know for me to believe you or or you owe this to me or whatever I almost yeah
00:49:49
you're right on it you're right on it yep and and and I think he's in her ear you know I you know remember you go back
00:49:57
to the video right the media video where they actually catch him saying hey um you know you've got to say you've
00:50:09
got to say in today tense not past tense and she looks at him going what you know
00:50:15
Screw you like rolling her eyes right right ver steering sh that's good way I would like to see his records too
00:50:26
uh to see if he's the one calling her mother to say you need to go in there and and stop this you know what maybe I
00:50:35
don't know um you know Vernal has been very interesting about his phone you know he tells us that's the other great
00:50:43
thing Vernal I don't know if he I just don't know if he's stupid or what but we do have a a audio tape of the 911 call
00:50:52
from Vernal 2 911 about his son missing right and he's talking to him on the phone well I think we've kind of hinted
00:51:01
at what we have but we actually at the same time uh uh Jessica is talking to 911
00:51:10
right saying my son's missing he's two years old well guess what we hear in the background Vernal talking to 911 but
00:51:18
he's supposed to like a mile and a half down the road do has that been released I remember hearing Jessica's
00:51:25
we're not releasing yeah law enforcement's asked that not to be released because that's going to be a
00:51:30
that's going to be a huge uh that's going to be a huge part of the case but everybody knows about it I mean the cops
00:51:36
released it and said yeah this is what's happened this is what's going on our original coverage of the Dior Coons
00:51:44
missing persons case suspicious death investigation possible homicide investigation case we released that in
00:51:53
May of 200 19 in episodes 305 and 306 and what Philip is talking about right here in regards to the 911 calls
00:52:06
because there were two one from Jessica one from Vernal you can hear in our episode
00:52:14
305 timestamp 29 minutes and 38 seconds where Vernal is describing the 911 calls and that he and
00:52:24
Jessica are not in the same location when those calls are coming in these statements and what police find in their
00:52:35
investigation very quickly is that this is a discrepancy in their story that this is uh deception on both of their
00:52:44
behalfs and it sounds like vernals 911 call has not been released to the public Philip is there anything that we that we
00:52:53
didn't touch on today that we we should make clear for for the listeners in regards to this case before I don't know
00:53:00
I I think I think two things I think number one I think most importantly of all of it uh most importantly I think
00:53:08
that um when um Vernal well I'm just gonna say it this way I believe as y'all obviously think um Vernal is running the
00:53:19
show and he's letting trying to let the clock run out um and I think that that's
00:53:25
kind of interesting I think he's trying to say oh the longer goes the worse it'll be well the longer goes I'm sorry
00:53:32
the longer goes the better it will be the longer it goes in reality the worse it's going to be for him I mean he needs
00:53:39
to understand that no he's got a wild card out there okay and her her name is Jessica that's the wild card and he can
00:53:48
you know now they're not married and now they they say they don't talk to each other I'm telling you right now now that
00:53:56
you know one day she's going to wake up that's the baby she birthed that's the baby that came out of
00:54:02
her uh is she the mother of the year award absolutely not she's she she wouldn't even get honorable mention but
00:54:11
there's an inherited part of a human being that knows when their child is dead they will do anything it takes
00:54:22
right it'll they'll do anything it takes to come out of that horrible psychosis and say oh my
00:54:34
God my baby's dead I'm gonna make this better right does that make sense and I think that that's the other
00:54:42
wild card out there uh I think like I said before I'll say it again I think Jessica knows what happened and I think
00:54:52
she's keeping it underneath her skin I really do in your professional opinion and your expert
00:54:59
opinion what do you think will happen well I think the sheriff up there you know there's all he's he the poor
00:55:08
guy he he has him and five deputies right that's it right and they work their butts off they work 12- hour
00:55:17
shifts six days a week and the sheriff is a dedicated guy I'll tell you what you'll never find um um uh
00:55:25
you'll never find a better guy than than him and I think that he has a plan and I
00:55:32
think uh um I think that he will come up with his plan uh I don't I don't want to
00:55:41
say anything about the sheriff in limh high County other than absolutely positive stuff right I just I just want
00:55:48
to say something very very positive um the media is scared now to report the case because of the lawsuit uh you know
00:55:58
uh East Idaho news who we had a good relationship with I don't think we have a very good relationship with them now
00:56:04
from what my staff is telling me uh you know they want no interest in being a part of the case now uh you know I don't
00:56:13
know what to tell you uh about that I think the second thing is and most importantly is uh uh Vern's worst
00:56:21
nightmare is that the police officers are not going to give up just like we're not going to give up we're not giving up
00:56:26
on this child not going to happen well we want to thank you for allowing us to be a part of your investigation and
00:56:33
informing oh you're very welcome and let me say one other thing one of the misnomers out there and I think it's
00:56:38
very important and I'm just going to give you a little hint on this one of the misnomers and I think you guys
00:56:44
reported it as well is that the water runs into this small Lake up in um uh up in Lor Idaho up at the campground it
00:56:53
doesn't it runs out of the lake so if you if you look at the map and you look at how the water runs out of that Lake
00:57:00
it's just a it's just a um a snow runoff little Lake if you look you go back and
00:57:07
you look at Jess Mitchell and vernal running around down there saying oh I'm fishing for
00:57:13
tadpoles or not tadpoles but little fish there's no little fish in there well thank you philli we really appreciate
00:57:20
your time today and bringing us up to speed on where the case stands today you're you're very welcome and thank you
00:57:26
too for everything you do for the missing it's very important that's how we came upon you uh is that during our
00:57:33
peer review uh and and uh your your your uh your podcast was put in there about this and we listen to it very closely
00:57:41
and you guys do a great job thank you very much for what you do for the [Music] missing
00:57:55
want to thank everybody so much for joining us here back in the garage make sure you share these cases on social
00:58:02
media and Colonel do we have a recommended reading for The Listener well if you're following the news you
00:58:09
already know that one of the most notorious serial killers to be apprehended in the last 30 to 35 years
00:58:18
wedged right between Jeffrey dmer and the BTK Dennis Raider was Theodore kazinski aka the unibomber he was a
00:58:27
serial killer domestic terrorist who's been locked up since 1996 Ted kazinski was found dead in his
00:58:35
cell the morning of June 10th with significant neck injuries and a depressed trachea by the time he was
00:58:43
discovered rigger mortise had already set in at least one source reported that Ted appeared ghostlike and frail leading
00:58:52
up to his death Ted kazinski was 81 years old serving out a life sentence in the Colorado supermax facility but in
00:59:02
December of 2021 kazinski was moved to a prison medical facility many of the news
00:59:08
outlets out there are saying the reason for kazinsky transfer is unclear however
00:59:14
last year we interviewed true crime author Jamie garri who told us that Ted was diagnosed with cancer so with Ted in
00:59:22
the news again this is a good reminder to go and check out her book madman in the woods life next door to the
00:59:29
unibomber Jamie had the unfortunate experience of growing up in the woods of Montana right next door to domestic
00:59:37
terrorist and serial killer Ted kazinski check out her book The Madman in the woods one of my favorite true crime
00:59:45
books of 2022 you can find that great title in many more on our recommended page on our
00:59:51
website true Crim garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
01:00:23
litter is it possible to predict the unpredictable can 3D printed life-size organ models help to map out complex
01:00:41
surgeries ahead of time is it possible it already is right here Mayo Clinic you know where to go