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[music] Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man that faked
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his death, changed his name, and has been hiding in the garage ever since. He is the captain. Thank you. Thank you.
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[music] Thank you. It's good to be Well, it's not good to be seen, and it's I guess it's not good to see you either.
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Oh, great. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Tonight we are drinking Las Vegas logger
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with cucumber and lime from Big Dogs Micro Brewing in Las Vegas, Nevada. Garage Grade three and a half bottle
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caps out of five. What happens in Vegas shouldn't have to stay in Vegas, not when it's this good. And we're staying
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refreshed tonight because of some of our good garage friends. First up, we have Cory in Claremont, Florida. And to KM,
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we like your gym. Next, let's go out west and thank Karen in Santa Monica, California. Staying in California, we
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have Cammy and Jessica in San Diego. Stay classy. >> That's pungent. And right around the
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corner from me in Hillyard, Ohio, we have Nicolina. Here's a cute message. It says, "Greetings, chaps, from across the
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pond in the Black Country. Enjoy a round of beers on me." That's from Deborah and
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Olympia, Washington. We have Colin. Big cheers to you, mate. We also have Brendan and Lindsay in Bellingham,
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Washington. And we have Priest in Singapore. And sending hugs from Bergen, Norway, we have Siren. [music]
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And our last birthday shout out ever so we can stop sounding like Morning Zoo Radio. All right, goes to Emily [music]
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from Laurel in Minnesota. So, thank you to everybody in our big garage family. We thank you. We appreciate you. For
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everything True Crime Garage, go to true crimegar.com. [music] And if you'd like
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to follow us on social media, Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, Untapped, do so at True Crime Garage. [music] And that's
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enough other beers. >> All right, everybody gather around. Grab a chair. Grab a beer. Let's talk some
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true crime. [music] >> [music] >> September 7th, 1996, Las Vegas, Nevada. This was supposed to be a big day in
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sports. A lot of people, a lot of celebrities, they had made their way to Vegas to see the big boxing match. This
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is Bruce Seldon verse Mike Tyson build as the championship part two. >> Mhm. Bruce Seldon was the WBA
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heavyweight champion. He had a record of 33 and3. And Iron Mike Tyson, just three
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fights removed from his time in prison, won all three fights. In his previous fight, he had just captured the WBC
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heavyweight title. Tyson's record, a very impressive 44-1. Of course, the big fight was broadcast live on
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pay-per-view, and the fight was held at the MGM Grand in beautiful Las Vegas. And I can't remember if I actually
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watched this fight, but any child of the '9s, um, you would know your your father
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would get the Tyson fights and they'd last about like a minute and then your father would be yelling
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>> cuz they they paid all this money to watch a a minute long fight. >> Well, unfortunately, the big fight was
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really a much to do about nothing because Tyson mopped the floor with the guy, right? Tyson knocked Seldon down
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twice, both times connecting with a powerful left hook. And Tyson won by way of knockout in the first round in just 1
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minute 49 seconds, making it one of the shortest championship fights in boxing history. In attendance that night, as we
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said, were plenty of celebrities. You know, Vegas is only about an hour and a half long flight from Los Angeles.
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>> Yeah. Four 4 hour 5 hour drive from LA as well. So, of course, we have Tupac Shakur was present and he was there with
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Death Row Record CEO Suge Knight and their entourage of friends, family, and business associates. Well, after the
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fight, this is sometime between 8:30 and 900 p.m., someone in Tupac Sug's entourage, a guy by the name of Trayvon,
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he spots this dude, Orlando Anderson, nicknamed Baby Lane. >> We'll just call him Orlando. But Orlando
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is 21 years old and he's a member of the Well, I believe it's the a member of the
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Southside Crips. Well, this is no good because they had beef. >> Mhm. >> Apparently, Orlando and some of his [ __ ]
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buddies had robbed someone in the Foot Locker store earlier that year. Uh it sounds like this person who was robbed
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was was with Tupac and Suge in Vegas that night. Right. So that guy uh Trayvon, he points out to or he points
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out Orlando to Suge and Pac. >> And this is not going to end too well for Orlando.
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>> No, no, this is going to end about as good for Orlando as it does for Seldon in the boxing match. Tupac led the
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attack. He ran up and he hit Orlando. Uh Suge and the rest joined in. They took Orlando to the ground pretty quickly, uh
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kicking him while he was down. Uh Tupac in the death row, guys. Uh they had their own security with them there that
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night. >> Well, and you can if you YouTube this, you can actually find the fight online.
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Uh not the actual Tyson fight, but the fight afterwards with Tupac. You can find that on YouTube.
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>> Mhm. Yeah. It was caught on surveillance camera that night. Well, one of the private security uh for the death row
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guys, he pretty quickly pulled Tupac from the fight. And if you if you watch the surveillance footage, this all
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happens very quickly. You can kind of see Pac run up and appear to hit the guy and then you see this like just this
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crowd of I'm guessing entourage people that that follow in very quickly behind. >> And I'm just going to throw this out
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there because I've I've seen this multiple times as far as conspiracy theories go. A lot of people think that
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it's actually not Tupac in the video that the size and the build of Tupac is disproportionate to actually what Tupac
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was. Um, I think as as far as like the police reports of this incident and the security reports that happened, it's
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pretty clear that Tupac was there. Also, there is some speculation that he was wearing a bulletproof vest at the time
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as Tupac was known to wear a bulletproof vest multiple times. There's also a rumor that uh Sug Knight
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>> that's now I can't find this myself. I've looked over and over, but there's somewhere in the video footage where Sug
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Knight is actually trying to get Tupac to take off his vest. Now, again, that's just rumors that I've heard. I can't
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back that up um by by me actually watching the video myself. >> Mhm. Well, after after this scuffle
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takes place um around 900 p.m., everyone in the group uh they in Tupac's group, they kind of head their separate ways.
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They all go to their hotel rooms. They're going to get cleaned up, you know, change clothes and get ready to go
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out for the night. The plan being that they're going to a club. >> Well, right. And and I think the thing
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is, and I'm not very for sure about this because they say that Tupac was supposed
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to make an appearance. Now, I don't know if that was if he was supposed to perform or just show up because
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sometimes these celebrities or these rappers would get paid to go to afterparty.
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>> Yeah. And and you're right about that. I had heard I had heard it both ways. Um,
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but the the way that I've heard it the most is that he was to perform that evening.
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>> Okay. Yeah. And then some of that stuff too is it's just like a birthday party,
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like a celebrity kids birthday party or something. You want to talk about easy money? Sometimes they're paid six
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figures to show up and do one tune. >> Mhm. Well, and the thought could be, Captain, that that his appearance or his
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performance that night at the 662 club might fund the entire trip for all those guys to go out there, you know, and and
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it's good publicity for him uh to sell records as well. >> And and let's go back a little bit
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because Tupac is there with Suge Knight, >> but didn't travel with him. He's traveling with his cousin. Um, and he's
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traveling with his girlfriend at the time, which was uh Quincy Jones's daughter,
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>> and I can't recall his cousin's name, but it's it's a female cousin. >> Yeah.
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>> Um, >> they they shared like a birthday month. And so he's like, "Hey, come to Vegas
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and and let's party." But before this all went down, uh there was a lot of speculation and rumors from Tupac's
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family that he for some reason just wasn't feeling up to going to Vegas that weekend.
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>> Mhm. Well, I think that points out something to me about Pac's character because we, you know, as we showed
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yesterday, he did not have a great family structure, let's say. um he didn't have an easy time growing up, but
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I've seen plenty of videos and plenty of evidence that as an adult as you know once successful that he always tried to
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you know do things with his family, keep his family together and as you said brought along the cousin on this trip.
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Well, this is when he goes back up to his room to get >> Well, to touch on that a little bit,
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what you were saying before and a lot of Tupac's interviews, he would talk and and I have a lot of respect for him for
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this cuz his whole thing was, yeah, I'm becoming famous and yeah, I'm getting a bunch of money, but I don't need a a ton
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of stuff. I'm going to I'm going to support my family. >> Mhm. >> And I'm going to no matter how much
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money that costs to to help them out, I'm going to help them out. Well, and as we mentioned, the cousin is along on
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this trip, and when when Tupac goes up to his room to get cleaned up for the evening, change of clothes, uh he, you
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know, and this is her words, she says, you know, he he was he was on like cloud9 when he came up to the room. He
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he was excited because he he he loved watching the boxing match, >> right? >> Uh he was probably pretty jacked up from
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that. And then that might have been why he ran up and it wasn't so hard to get Tupac to run up and punch this guy,
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>> right? >> Um and so he was kind of pumped up and bragging to her a little bit about uh
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the fight that he had had in the in the lobby comparing himself to Mike Tyson. And um she says that when he
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>> Right. Right. >> You're not as big as Mike Tyson, but >> when he goes up there to change his
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clothes, you know, it was it was regular Tupac, Mr. happy golucky and she didn't
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see anything that would put off any any warnings to her. Now, one thing that she
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did think was strange was he left the room without his bulletproof vest. >> Right
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>> now, um when once he gets downstairs, a bodyguard suggests to Pac that he should
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wear the vest that night and Pac says, "Nah, it's going to be it's going to be too hot here tonight." Right.
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>> Um so they're going to Club 662. Um, I have in my notes that Pac was performing
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there, but as we said, it could have just been an appearance. Now, the group before they make it to the club, they go
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to Suge Knight's mansion. He has a mansion in the area, and they're there for about a half an hour or so. And
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during the course of this visit, Pac and Suge, they're off in what I'm going to call it a secret meeting, but no, nobody
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in the group titles it as that. They just said that for for a portion of that time at Suge's Suge's house, the two of
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them were off somewhere. They didn't know why they weren't with the group or what they were discussing or what was
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going on. When they go to leave Suge's mansion, uh Pox's bodyguard, this is Frank Alexander.
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>> Well, and to be fair, I mean, this is his label, right? So, it could have just
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been, "Hey, something came up. We need to discuss this real quick in private." >> Yeah. it it may not have been anything
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of great importance of things that were going to happen that evening, >> right? >> Um the bodyguard, Frank Alexander, he
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says that he would typically ride with Tupac in the vehicle and he was prepared. He said he was standing at the
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car with the back door open getting ready to ride in the back seat with Suge Knight and Tupac on their way to the
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club that evening. He says in this statement u in in this particular documentary that I was watching that Pac
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had suggested to him that he should take another car, that he should drive in another car because they'll probably
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have extra people, additional people coming back from the club to the hotel afterwards and they may need additional
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vehicles. Right >> now, we've also heard statements that Pac told him to ride in the vehicle with
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his then fiance or girlfriend at the time. The pro the problem I have with the the
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and >> Quincy Jones's daughter, >> right? And the reason why I'm kind of pointing this out is because people have
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put a lot of speculation on why the bodyguard would not be with Pac. And I think you should first of all, but
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second of all, the problem I have with it is that there's so many different statements. You know, is it possible
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that he rode with the girlfriend and additional guys in that in that car? Yes, it's possible. But in his
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statement, he never mentions Frank Alexander's statement. He never mentions the the girlfriend at the time.
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>> The problem though being I I believe that that we've seen varying accounts from Mr. Frank Alexander. Uh and and I
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don't mean drastic varying accounts. I mean slightly varying accounts. So I'm just kind of covering our bases there.
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>> But so he's not going to ride with Pac. Now, there's been other people that have
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suggested that Suge Knight told Pac to suggest to the bodyguard to ride in another vehicle,
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>> right? But we have the bodyguard's claims that it was Pox. So, >> so we have basically a threecar convoy
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and we have Suge Knight and Pac. They are in a 96 BMW 750il, which uh I'm not a not a Suge backer. Uh
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but he's got good taste in cars, I got to tell you that. It's a rental though, right?
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>> Around around is it >> I don't know for Hey, look from all the statements after Pac dies is that you
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know everything was leased anyways. It was own anything. >> I I Yes, I think we should be I don't
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think it was Well, actually, I should say I know it wasn't a rental. It could have been a lease. Regardless, um around
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11 p.m. they are stopped. This is uh Tupac's car. They're stopped on the Las Vegas Boulevard. This is by Metro
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Bicycle Police. Uh, [laughter] >> come on. Can you imagine being stopped by cops on a bike?
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>> Well, there's a lot of people walking around down there. >> No, I understand that. But I'm just
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saying, you know, if you're walking and you get stopped by a cop on a bike, not a big deal. But if you're driving and a
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cop on a bike stops you, I'd be going, "What are you doing?" >> Well, apparently they're stopped for
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their stereo being too loud. and there's no license plates on their vehicle. >> Um, these license plates for whatever
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reasons were not on the car. They're later found in the trunk of the car. Um, there's no ticket issued. Um, there, you
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know, they kind of leave without any >> right >> without any altercation at all. Um, but
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not long after that, this would take us to around about 11:10, 11:15 p.m. Now, we have to we have to kind of picture
00:16:31
this a as we're talking about it because, you know, this is audio. We can't show you any diagrams here, but
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picture the three car convoy pulling up to the corner of Flamingo and Corval, >> right? And it looks like it's five lanes
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at the intersection. >> Yeah. So you have you have a vehicle in front which has got you know death row
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guys in it and then in the middle vehicle you have Suge Knight who's driving and you have Tupac Shakur who's
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sitting shotgun and then there's >> Yeah. >> And then there's a vehicle behind them
00:17:02
as well which contains more of their entourage. So as they pull up as the captain said this is a multi-lane road.
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Um, the vehicles are driving uh in this threecar convoy, but they're they're straightforward. They're not side by
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side. It's one, two, three as they pull up. Now, they have a there's there's a bit of, you know, there's a vehicle next
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to them that has some lovely ladies in it. And Sug Knight and Tupac exchange some words with these ladies, uh,
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inviting them to the club, uh, for his performance. Well, a white four-door late model Cadillac with an unknown
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number of occupants pulled up to the sedan's right side. So, we have the the girls in their vehicle are on the left
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side of Suge and Pac. >> Mhm. >> And so, this vehicle pulls up to the right of them. So, if you can picture
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this, their car, Suge Knight's car, is basically boxed in on all four sides. Mhm.
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>> And so this vehicle pulls up to the right hand side, uh, rolled down a window, and rapidly fired gunshots. Um,
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I've I've heard that 14 shots were fired is the most common number given here. Um, this is fired at Suge and Tupac's
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vehicle. Tupac was hit four times. Twice in the chest, once in the arm, and once
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in the thigh. One of the bullets went into Tupac's right lung. Knight was hit. Suge Knight was hit in the head uh by a
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fragmentation or a piece of piece of a bullet or a piece of glass. It's a little unclear. Um and and I got to say
00:18:48
that it's unclear. Part of that is because of Suge Knight's own statements. If you you don't have to look very hard
00:18:54
where you can see him in an interview saying, "I was hit with a bullet in the head and and it I still got a bullet
00:19:00
lodged in my head." That's that's not accurate by anything that I could find it. It it actually is probably a blatant
00:19:08
lie, >> but he he's hit with either a fragment of a bullet or some kind of glass that
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that does some damage to his head and he's bleeding quite badly. >> And the white Cadillac is it's in the
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right hand turn lane and it's going to turn right onto Corvville. >> Yeah. In the bodyguard, Frank Alexander,
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he says that one of the death row cars went after the white Cadillac. >> Uh, but he states that that nothing came
00:19:34
of this. Suge's car pulls away. Now, Suge is still driving. He's driving erratically at this time
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>> and the car itself is badly damaged because I think Suge hit a few things with the vehicle and the car eventually
00:19:49
breaks down. Now, this is not terribly far from the scene of the shooting. The first officer to arrive at the scene was
00:19:56
a now retired officer. His name is Chris Carroll. Suge is out of the vehicle at this point. Uh the officer Carol, he's
00:20:04
trying to open the passenger door to get Pac out of the vehicle. Uh but it's stuck or it's jammed, but for whatever
00:20:12
reason, he can't seem to get the door open. Now Suge keeps coming up behind the officer and running up behind him
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and the officer is trying to gain control of this of this situation because he doesn't really know what's
00:20:28
going on here. You know, he can see that that Tupac is in bad shape. Uh he sees Suge who is bleeding from the head and
00:20:34
in his his exact words were he's bleeding pretty badly, right? >> Uh the officer at this point, you know,
00:20:41
he doesn't know if these two guys might have shot each other. um he's not really
00:20:45
sure what's going on. So, he's got to kind of protect himself, but try to offer some assistance to these guys at
00:20:52
the same time, right? So, he keeps kind of pointing his gun at Suge and saying, "Dude, you got to you got
00:20:58
>> you got to lay down. You got to back off so I can get this door open." >> Well, in fairness to the cop, too. I
00:21:04
mean, Suge is a pretty big guy. >> Well, that's funny that you say that because he that's exactly what he states
00:21:09
in his in his interview. You know, he said, "My first thought is I see this giant man." And he says, "He's huge.
00:21:16
This guy is huge. He's running around. I'm worried about him coming up behind me." He goes, "And the guy's bleeding
00:21:23
from the head, but he seems all there." You know what I mean? He seems he knows what's going on. He's he's with it. But
00:21:30
he keeps saying, you know, I was shocked that this dude was even walking around.
00:21:34
I think I think the officer may have thought because of the amount of blood coming from Suge that he was shot much
00:21:40
worse than what he was. >> Right. >> Anyway, he's trying to gain control of the situation. He can't get the vehicle
00:21:46
door open. According to whoever you want to believe, the officer says he eventually gets the door open. Sugge
00:21:53
Knight says that he has to keep coming up and trying to help the officer because the officer couldn't figure out
00:21:59
how to get the door open or take off the seat belt. Well, we'd assume that maybe
00:22:03
the door is jammed because of the shots >> or or from Suge hitting something with
00:22:08
the vehicle. >> True. Right. >> So, there's there's plenty of reason for it to be jammed. According to the
00:22:12
officer, he finally gets the door open and he at this point he >> Yeah, but is at this point, isn't this
00:22:20
when uh they open up the door and Tupac's body just kind of falls out? >> Yeah. If he kind of falls out of the
00:22:26
vehicle and he's kind of like leaning up against the open door at this point. >> Yeah. He's been hit four times, right?
00:22:32
>> Mhm. He said, you know, so he, the officer says, I I grabbed him with my left arm. He falls out into me and I've
00:22:41
still got my gun in the other hand. Uh he say stating that Tupac is covered in blood and he noticed that immediately
00:22:49
noticed that the guy's got a ton of gold on and he's got, you know, necklace and
00:22:53
jewelry and all >> lot of rings that night. You can actually uh Google search Tupac the
00:22:59
night of the fight and you can see what he was wearing and you can see he had multiple rings on each finger. The
00:23:05
officer says that all of the gold, all the jewelry is covered in blood. Uh and he says that he the the other guy just
00:23:12
keeps yelling, you know, u and and Suge's still yelling now. Now Suge is yelling pac pac. Uh and he just keeps
00:23:20
yelling it over and over again. And this is when the officer realizes who who he's encountered. You know, he wasn't
00:23:29
aware that it was Tupac until now he's got him out of the vehicle. He sees all the blood and now he's putting
00:23:35
everything together. >> Now the officer is stating that Tupac is also trying to yell back at Suge Knight.
00:23:41
>> Yeah. And the officer says that at some point, very quickly, Tupac goes from yelling back at Suge to trying to speak
00:23:50
or struggling to speak. >> Uh he's not being super cooperative with the officer, but he's probably in a
00:23:56
whole lot of shock as well. Um to the point where he he basically could not he couldn't speak very much at all. You
00:24:04
know, almost kind of like, you know, [snorts] he's out of energy. He's he's been taken down. And
00:24:09
>> well, yeah. And >> the off well the officer is trying to get some information from Pac because
00:24:15
once he realizes how badly this guy's been been shot and injured, you know, he wants to find out who shot him. Can you
00:24:22
tell me any information at all? >> And he he asked him that several times. Who shot you? Who shot you? Um and he
00:24:30
says at some point Tupac looked at him and took a breath uh to get some words out. And when Tupac opened up his mouth,
00:24:38
the officer thought that he was actually going to tell him who shot him or or offer some cooperation, right?
00:24:44
>> Uh but then the words came out from Pac, "F you." >> And then after that, he started gurgling
00:24:51
and kind of slipping out of consciousness. >> And at this point, the ambulance is
00:24:56
going to show up. They're going to take Tupac to the hospital. Now, this uh this
00:25:00
officer that talked to Tupac or tried to help Tupac was saying that he never spoke another word after the FU. And
00:25:06
then there was also a officer that rode in the ambulance with Tupac and he also question him as well trying to get
00:25:13
answers because obviously they know somebody shot him. >> Mhm. Well, and then once they get to the
00:25:19
hospital, we have this situation where he has to be rushed immediately into surgery to try to save his life. So,
00:25:26
he's, you know, he's in surgery. He's heavily sedated. Um, th this is this is a strange thing here, Captain. A very
00:25:34
strange thing to me. >> It's possible that both stories are true, but yesterday we reported that
00:25:40
when when Pac was shot in New York that his somebody in his group had informed the police that that somebody was coming
00:25:49
back to the hospital to finish the job. And we stated that that that was probably very likely because Tupac
00:25:55
rushed out of the hospital. He left a lot earlier than the doctors wanted him to.
00:26:00
>> Now, the same story is basically repeated verbatim here as well where somebody in the group called the police
00:26:08
and stated that somebody's going to come back to the hospital to finish the job.
00:26:12
We need to get an officer here. Um, and they're told that they're underst staffed. There's no officer available to
00:26:18
guard the the hospital room or to guard Tupac. I don't know. >> But well, the other problem I have with
00:26:26
this though too is that you have bodyguards that you're that you're paying >> their salary. So, you know, wouldn't
00:26:34
these bodyguards be able to be at the at the hospital to protect Tupac? >> Yeah. It's it's just the reason why I
00:26:42
question it. Um, I don't question it in the sense that somebody's life was in danger. And there's, of course,
00:26:48
immediate threat in both situations. I kind of question it because it's the exact same story two times in a row. I I
00:26:55
just don't know that it that one of those stories actually happened. Um, I believe it happened at least once. I I
00:27:02
just think that the waters are a little murky and and some of the stories may have bled into one another. Sorry,
00:27:08
that's a poor choice of words, but it may have carried over from one incident to the other.
00:27:14
>> Well, and what I was saying before, um, to me, this is just all pretty sad. You
00:27:20
know, I I can't understand. Maybe Tupac didn't know who shot him, but I >> he might not have even seen anything. I
00:27:28
mean, he was he was basically ambushed when you think about it. He was he was shot. It was a surprise attack.
00:27:36
>> Well, and I'm Right. But I'm and I'm very well aware that me and you know me and Tupac grew up in way different
00:27:41
circumstances. I'm just you know if somebody shot me and I knew, wouldn't you want to say? Uh
00:27:50
right. >> I I understand it's a whole different uh situation. But that's what's so sad to
00:27:56
me is is that maybe uh his fans or his family or anybody could have got some answers uh if he was just willing to to
00:28:06
talk, you know, and and say the name. But again, like you said, maybe he didn't didn't say the name.
00:28:12
>> Yeah. I >> or didn't know or didn't see anything. >> I have a feeling that I I don't think he
00:28:17
he saw who did this. um or he didn't didn't know them enough to be able to identify anybody. Um but once he's at
00:28:26
the hospital, you know, we we we all know the sad story from here. You know, he's he's placed on some different type
00:28:33
of life support machines. Um, now now to show you how tough this dude was, uh, you know, Tupac would, you know, we
00:28:41
talked about yesterday he he's shot several times in New York and he leaves the hospital against doctor's orders.
00:28:49
Um, and you know, me me I break a leg, I'm down for six months. This guy >> maybe six years.
00:28:56
>> Yeah. This guy, he's just he's right back at it. He's a real man. So this situation here, they at some point they
00:29:03
have to sedate him because he's trying to get out of bed. This guy is is, you know, just breaths away from
00:29:11
lifelessness and yet he's got the strength somehow to to get out of bed, >> right?
00:29:16
>> Um unfortunately on the afternoon of September 13th. >> Well, yeah. Well, but the what's
00:29:22
reported, and this is where kind of the conspiracy stuff kind of falls into play, is some some of it um reported
00:29:30
that he goes into a coma and then he has to have more more surgeries because uh where the bullets hit and then that
00:29:37
possibly they had to remove a lung. >> Mhm. >> Uh and then several days later, like you
00:29:42
said, he he is reported dead. >> Yeah. He passes away. Um and it sounds like they were the doctors were trying
00:29:49
to revive him. Uh but after quite some time, his his mother uh made the decision and told the doctors to stop uh
00:29:58
trying. He's pronounced dead at uh 4:03 p.m. on September 13th. [music] >> [music]
00:30:23
>> All right, we're back. Cheers, mates. >> Cheers. Well, let's talk about the investigation a little bit. And this
00:30:29
won't take us too long before we get to some of the other more widely talked about things in this in this case, but
00:30:36
in September of 1997, one year after Tupac was killed, the Las Vegas Police uh made a statement. This is Sergeant
00:30:44
Kevin Manning. He told the Review Journal, that's the local Las Vegas newspaper, that Tupac slang, they didn't
00:30:52
believe it to be motivated by a gang war or arguments within the rap world. Um, it said he says that it appears to them
00:31:00
that the motivation would be some type of personal dispute more than anything. And two of the detectives that were on
00:31:07
this case, I I thought they made an interesting statement. They were saying, you know, yeah, you know, Tupac had a
00:31:14
lot of opinions on police officers, but that had no weight or bearing on their commitment to solve this case that that
00:31:22
when they signed up to be detectives, when they decid when they decided to be police officers, they took an oath and
00:31:28
and everybody that they were working for uh deserved to have closure to deserve to have their case solved.
00:31:36
>> Mhm. They also said that they had a lot of theories, you know, a lot of theories
00:31:40
as to what went down that night, who was responsible, but stating that they have
00:31:45
no witnesses willing to cooperate or any direct evidence implicating any specific
00:31:50
individual. Now, police at the time said that Tupac's associates knew who killed
00:31:56
him. Um, >> and that that would be definitely Suge Knight, which was in the car with him.
00:32:01
>> Mhm. But they unable to make a case, they state. Now, we also have some FBI documents that have come out over the
00:32:10
years. In 2011, a highly redacted 359page document was released on the AY's website. This is a common site to post
00:32:20
records that are of the subject of several Freedom of Information Act request. Now, within those documents,
00:32:29
you'll see that the that the FBI's information is slightly different uh regarding this investigation as far as
00:32:37
what we just heard from the Vegas police. But I also want to throw out there that within these FBI documents,
00:32:44
they are actually talking about their investigation into both the death of Tupac and Biggie. So within these
00:32:53
documents, it says that the FBI did spend a lot of time examining a link between uh the two killings. They also
00:33:01
spent a lot of time examining the link between some LAPD officers who might have been members of street gangs or who
00:33:10
worked security for Death Row and the ties between the record label and the Blood Gang members. And one of the
00:33:16
things that the FBI would talk about with the connection with the Blood Gang is that they actually thought possibly
00:33:22
both shootings were connected to the Southside Crips or the Southside Compton Crips.
00:33:27
>> Yeah. That they that the Crips may have masterminded both of the uh the killings. Um here's another strange
00:33:35
thing in this whole case though. There was another shooting. Uh this took place in November, just two months after
00:33:41
Tupac's death. Mhm. >> Um, this the victim here is 19year-old and I I have to apologize, but I have no
00:33:48
idea how to say this young man's name. >> I think it's Yafi Fuller. >> Fooler, I believe. And he actually had
00:33:55
uh two names. Um, the other name that he went by was Yaki Kaddafi. Um, but I apologize if we misspoke on those, but I
00:34:02
think we got pretty close there, Captain. >> We're trying our best. >> Yeah. Regardless, this young man, he was
00:34:07
he was a backup singer in Tupac's group, The Outlaws. Um he was shot in a ha in a
00:34:14
hallway of a housing project in Orange, New Jersey. This was 2 months after Tupac's death, just 19 years old. Uh he
00:34:22
was part of Pox Entourage in Las Vegas and was a passenger in a car directly behind Tupac's car when when the artist
00:34:31
was killed. Now, um, police say that Foola's murder was unrelated to Tupac's case, even though Foola was the only
00:34:40
witness who told Metro investigators that night that he could possibly identify Pox asalent.
00:34:47
>> Mhm. >> Fool was killed before police could question him further at length. And like
00:34:53
we were talking about a little bit during the break, our detailed account of the night or the shooting or where
00:34:59
the cars were and all that stuff. We probably didn't do um home room [snorts] job of, but we're going to get back to a
00:35:07
lot of that stuff when we go through the theories. >> Yes. And there's varying accounts of
00:35:11
those, but as you'll see as we go through these different things, it's going to come we're going to have to
00:35:15
come back to it a couple of times. Um, so let's talk about some of the widely discussed theories about Tubac's death
00:35:23
and who killed him. >> Well, and here's just a little um, warning. If you're just the facts man,
00:35:28
if you're just the facts man, then you probably don't want to listen after this.
00:35:33
>> You're just the first part of the show, man. >> Right. >> So, all right. So, the the first theory
00:35:37
is that the Illuminati had something to do with the death of Tupac. >> Um, you know, in 1996,
00:35:44
>> well, yeah, they Death Road Records releases. I'm just going to interrupt you cuz I don't think you'll be able to
00:35:49
say it. Don Klluminati. >> There you go. Very good. When I see that word, I I my brain immediately separates
00:35:54
it into two words. >> Captain Conspiracy is here today, my friend. >> Yeah. The the 7-day theory. Uh which
00:36:01
reportedly features lyrics predicting Tupac's death. Uh it is alleged that Tupac developed a dislike for the
00:36:08
Illuminati. uh the the power the organ organization supposedly yields while in prison in 1995.
00:36:17
>> Um so, you know, this has been brought up time and time again that this that these very important shadowy figures
00:36:26
with lots of power took this guy out because he was outspoken and he was going to speak out against such people.
00:36:34
Well, and one of the things that uh kind of the theory behind the Illuminati as far as it goes with the the rap world or
00:36:41
the music world is the idea that we'll, you know, we need to dumb down America. We need to dumb down the world. And if
00:36:48
we can dumb them down, then we can kind of do whatever we want and they're just not going to be focused on that.
00:36:54
>> So, you need rappers to be talking about [ __ ] and hoes, right? You need uh some dumb music out there. You don't
00:37:03
need to have people saying socially relevant stuff and [clears throat] >> well, you don't want to get the people
00:37:08
thinking too much, right? Or asking too many questions, >> right? And so a lot of the stuff that
00:37:14
Tupac and one of the things that drew me and you know, it wasn't like I was this
00:37:19
kid listening to Tupac was afterwards and this the studying of him and the and then I was really interested when um
00:37:27
some of my college professor friends were saying, "Oh, they're teaching classes on him now." Mhm.
00:37:32
>> Okay. Well, why? And you start diving into his interviews and what he is saying about, you know, you know, you
00:37:38
need to empower yourself. You know, you need to get education and it doesn't have to be through a four years in
00:37:44
college, but you need to educate yourself. And he was he was saying things like this. So, the kind of this
00:37:50
theory is, yeah, Tupac had some of these, you know, you know, quote unquote gangster rap type songs, but he was also
00:37:58
saying stuff of empowerment. >> Mhm. And and so the idea would be that they would want to get rid of him
00:38:05
because he was trying to uplift. And if you really dive into what he was talking
00:38:09
about with the thug life stuff, which I never knew much about that. I just thought it was just kind of some silly
00:38:15
thing he'd say, thug life. But it's really this mantra and these ways and he was actually writing up laws and and
00:38:23
things that people could follow. And if you follow this thug life, it wasn't really to be a thug at all. It was to
00:38:30
uplift yourself, educate yourself, get yourself out of this situation. >> And one could argue this is kind of, you
00:38:38
know, possibly from Tupac's upbringing. I mean, his mother was a Black Panther and a lot of the stuff that the Black
00:38:45
Panther Party stood for actually was, you know, there was some socially relevant stuff there as well. So, I
00:38:51
think some of that education came down from his mother. Well, and I think a lot of these thoughts too that that Tupac
00:38:58
was putting out and that some of the thoughts that the Black Panther Party has put out over the years is that, you
00:39:04
know, united we are much better than we are as individuals. And who would that scare? Well, that would scare the people
00:39:10
in power, the people that might trying to be quote unquote control us. You know, it's almost it's very reminiscent
00:39:17
of when we discussed uh Joseph Columbo, the the the guy that was uniting Italian
00:39:22
Americans, right? and the thought that he was probably that he could have been killed by people or organizations of
00:39:29
power because he was uniting people and he was he was getting people to believe in themselves, believe in their
00:39:35
community and believe in their brothers and sisters around them to to stand up for themselves and stand up for their
00:39:41
communities and and to have a voice. Well, and the other thing that Tupac talks about a lot is, you know, Gangster
00:39:47
Rap was talking about the real the real struggles that were happening on the streets and the deaths that were
00:39:54
happening on the streets. And therefore, since they were bringing it to light, there was some statistics that were
00:39:59
done. And he always talked about how the the powers of be want to shut that down.
00:40:03
And the government for a lot of times like uh Tipper Gore was like spearheaded you know let's just let's not allow this
00:40:12
music to come out and one of the Tupac's ideas was you don't want us to talk about this so so the problem goes away
00:40:20
but the problem's not going to go away you you know people are just not going to report on it anymore. There's still
00:40:25
going to be people killing each other but you're not going to care because it's never reported to you. Mhm. Well,
00:40:32
and we should mention the FBI thing here because I I don't necessarily know that
00:40:36
it fits 100%, but it but it in itself I don't know that it's a separate theory. So, let's just cover that now while
00:40:43
we're on this topic because, you know, the thought is that potentially the government or the FBI killed somebody
00:40:49
like Tupac because of reasons we just stated. But the evidence to that would be that there is uh there's some proof
00:40:57
out there that he might have been being watched by certain agencies. >> Yeah, he definitely was.
00:41:03
>> And he might have even being been watched while he was in Las Vegas. >> Yeah. Okay. So, he was a Okay, here's a
00:41:09
couple things. So, one, he was a outspoken black male. So, with power, too. I mean, the bigger his albums got,
00:41:18
the more power he actually had. And I think they knew that just as much as the CIA had uh, you know, has files on, you
00:41:26
know, Maynard Keenan, right? >> Uh, James Mayor Keenan from Tulle, they have uh files on John Lennon.
00:41:34
I think, and I think it's naive to think that they shouldn't have those, right? >> Right.
00:41:40
>> So, you know, we were kind of joking off off air that there's a good possibility
00:41:45
that the CIA has files on us. I mean, they're the most boring files they have, but they might have files on us.
00:41:52
>> They have compromising photos of me [laughter] >> from a what t-shirt contest? Um, but
00:42:00
yeah. So, did they have files on him? Yes. And if you if you look at these documentaries of Tupac, sometimes you'll
00:42:06
see these surveillance footage and it'll say FBI surveillance footage. Here's where it's not so clear. Is is was that
00:42:15
surveillance footage from the club that the FBI attained? >> Mhm. >> Or was it the actual FBI
00:42:24
doing the surveillance, >> right? >> And that's not clear. >> So, we have the Illuminati theory. We
00:42:29
have the possibility of FBI or CIA involvement. Um, the way that I look at this thing, Captain, is I wanted to kind
00:42:36
of, you know, for if anybody's panicking, I wanted to kind of start with the theories that were a little
00:42:41
more outside of the box and kind of work our way closer to the box if we could. So,
00:42:47
>> we'll eventually get to our opinions on these theories. >> Yeah. So, so the next theory of of who
00:42:53
killed Tupac would be that nobody killed Tupac, that that he is uh that he's alive and well and possibly living in
00:43:00
Cuba. you know, we we talked about his his aunt being there. Um there is an article that was published um that that
00:43:08
says that he's been in hiding the whole time. There's probably several of those articles. Um but we've also seen all
00:43:15
kinds of pictures of him supposedly that he could be living anywhere. Uh possibly
00:43:20
Tupac lookalikes or supposedly Tupac himself. >> Yeah, there's a lot of talk too that he
00:43:26
kind of knew this was going to happen. He fell in love with uh Maveli >> and Maveli was um was a guy that faked
00:43:34
his own death. >> Um I I believe that Maveli actually faked his own death and then came back.
00:43:40
I'm not really >> I I'm not schooled on that very well. Um I I thought he was somebody that talked
00:43:46
of some kind of strategy about faking one's own death, >> right? No, I actually believe he
00:43:52
actually did. So, so the fact that he talks a lot about this and and actually actually talked about being rebirth, uh,
00:43:59
Tupac talked about being rebirth and actually being Maveli now. Um, I think because of a lot of that talk, um, look,
00:44:08
when you're shot five times and you kind of see the writing on the wall, >> was he a fortune teller? I don't think
00:44:16
so. So, I think he knew that the the people he was surrounding himself with and the the entertainment
00:44:25
uh industry that he was in, he knew that if he wasn't making changes, he'd probably end up dead.
00:44:32
>> Well, and he's not he's not an idiot. I mean, the Tupac's a very intelligent man, and he he knows that he he might be
00:44:40
in a bad situation. You know, if this happened once, it could happen again. and I barely escaped the first time. You
00:44:46
know, it's very likely. >> Well, and then there's all these weird talks about the autopsy because you have
00:44:51
the autopsy photo. The the problem with that I I are those real photos or not. So, a lot of people
00:45:00
will say, "Well, this is photoshopped or it's a fake photo." Maybe it is a fake photo.
00:45:06
>> And so, then that destroys the whole argument about the autopsy photos. Um now I
00:45:12
>> but but then he got cremated. >> So he got cremated really quickly. >> Yeah. So the reports are that that he
00:45:19
was cremated the next day. Now it's they're kind of loosey goosey reports because some people will say as late as
00:45:25
24 hours after he passed away or as early as 10 to 12 hours after he passed away.
00:45:31
>> Yeah. And that's pretty suspicious. But then we also have the death certificate.
00:45:35
>> Yeah. So, I was trying to find an autopsy because there's been arguments that there was one conducted that there
00:45:41
is no autopsy. I got nowhere with that. The best I could do was locate a death certificate. Now,
00:45:48
>> well, and let's let me be clear about the autopsy. There might not be one, and
00:45:52
I'm not I'm not a doctor, you know. I'm a captain. But the the thing is here is that we know that he had a punctured
00:46:01
lung or something was wrong with his lung because of the gunshot. >> Shot in the lung. Yeah.
00:46:06
>> And they had to pull I I believe they had to remove >> um the lung. >> Yeah. >> So I think maybe there wasn't an autopsy
00:46:15
because they were already doing all these surgeries. So they already know. >> So it's not like a you know we showed up
00:46:21
to this house and Tupac was murdered. It was he was in the hospital for multiple
00:46:26
days. >> Yeah. But on the death certificate itself, um the two things that stand out
00:46:32
there are that the height and weight listed on the death, let's be clear, the one that I saw,
00:46:37
>> right? >> They're not accurate. They the death certificate that I saw has him listed as
00:46:44
6' tall, 215 lbs. Well, that's Tupac was nowhere near 6' tall. He was nowhere near 215 lbs. 5'8, 5'9". He was about
00:46:55
160 to 170 lb. >> Yeah. And I would say if he's 170 lb, that's soaking wet with 10 rolls of
00:47:02
quarters in his pocket because he was a very lean uh a very lean guy. >> Yeah. And I think if you look at the
00:47:10
like I said, Google image search Tupac Shakur the the the night of the fight, he actually looks thinner than normal.
00:47:19
>> Yeah. And the thing with the death certificate is is two things. Okay, so first of all, I reviewed the whole
00:47:25
thing. There's nothing else on that document that I called into question. It was only the height and weight that
00:47:32
appeared to be wrong to me. They even had his his birth name on there. They had, you know, that his mother had
00:47:37
signed off on it. The problem is I'm seeing it on a computer in the garage, right? It's not a an official document
00:47:46
by the state of Nevada that was handed to me. I it it's it's something that somebody could have very easily
00:47:52
doctorred and put on the internet. >> Yeah. Okay. So, I'm just going to give my opinion on this if he's actually
00:47:59
dead. Now, a couple things. Uh, a lot of conspiracy theorists will say that when
00:48:04
his mother gives interviews, maybe she smirks or something like this. She gave plenty of interviews claiming that he
00:48:12
died. I mean, and explaining to you, oh, by the way, I'm the one that had to let
00:48:17
it go, you know, and I had to say, hey, let's let's stop this. He he doesn't want to be a prison. Uh he doesn't want
00:48:25
to be a prisoner here anyways. He he's not happy with what's going on anyways, and he's now struggling,
00:48:32
you know, let let him let his soul move on. Mhm. >> And so I'm just going to go with the
00:48:38
fact that that's what she has stated over and over and over. And why wouldn't I want to believe a mother? I understand
00:48:45
that the idea of the conspiracy theorist of him faking his own death would be well, yeah, his mom would cover up for
00:48:52
him. >> And I Yeah, I think that uh unfortunately it would be great if he was still alive and but but I think it's
00:49:00
a very unlikely theory. Um the other the next one would be the Jewish >> Let me just Okay, so so we can put a bow
00:49:08
on this, right? >> There are maybe two because look, a lot of anybody that's into conspiracy will be like you you
00:49:17
guys missed this or you missed that. Well, yeah, I understand that there's some videos that were made in Cuba of a
00:49:24
rapper and possibly Tupac in the background for 0.002 seconds. Uh, I don't know what to make
00:49:34
of that. You know, it kind of looks like him. All I can say on that theory is there's there's two things that have
00:49:44
have me um that are hard for me to wrap my head around. One, the amount of eyewitness accounts in Haiti that have
00:49:52
come forward to uh um authorities saying that they saw Tupac, it's like a crazy amount, like 10,000 reports.
00:50:01
>> Mhm. The other one is there's like two photos out there. If you Google search
00:50:06
two box alive, you can search through and and take a gander yourself. But there's two
00:50:12
um in my eyes that I have a hard time explaining. So that's all I'm going to put out
00:50:19
there. But do I believe he's dead? I do believe he's dead. The third theory would be the Jewish Defense League. Uh,
00:50:26
the FBI reportedly discovered threats to Tupac as well as rapper Easy E from the
00:50:32
far-right pro-Israel political religious group, the Jewish Defense League, the JDL. Uh, it is alleged that the JDL made
00:50:40
anonymous death threats against Tupac and then offered him protection services for and trade for large sums of money.
00:50:48
When this money wasn't paid, it is alleged that JDL murdered Tupac. Um, but the the the FBI has has discovered these
00:50:57
threats and has stated this, but they also state that there is no link between the JDL and the killing of Tupac that
00:51:05
has ever been discovered by them. >> Well, if there's a conspiracy on death that you want to look into, uh,
00:51:12
something that's pretty fascinating, easy, that'd be one. >> As far as a conspiracy, that's one that
00:51:19
I've looked into. I can't explain it myself. The next theory would be Suge Knight that that Suge Knight had had
00:51:27
Tupac killed, that it was some kind of hit, some kind of conspiracy against a guy in his own organization. Um,
00:51:35
>> this is a theory that I really dove a lot into because going into it, I I thought that this was a pretty likely
00:51:42
theory. you know, when I was uh when I was younger, uh I I really did think that probably either, you know, somebody
00:51:50
from the East Coast group had Pac killed or that or that Sugge Knight did it. So,
00:51:56
this is one that I dove into quite a bit. The the the theory goes like this, that supposedly
00:52:04
um Suge Knight owed Tupac about $3 million, >> possibly a lot more. >> Yeah. and he also might have known that
00:52:12
Tupac was looking to leave Death Row Records >> uh in order to start his own label. So,
00:52:18
the theory runs that if Tupac was killed, Death Row Records would profit from any unreleased material, which we
00:52:25
know he had a ton of it because the albums kept coming out. Um, Death Row Records have released a number of his
00:52:31
albums since his death. >> Well, right. And then his mother comes out and does a report stating, "Hey,
00:52:37
when when we're talking about that BMW earlier and I said it was probably leased, the reason why I was stating
00:52:43
that is if you look at the the report that the mom came out with, she said, "Look, my my son died broke,
00:52:51
>> right?" >> And when my son would get angry um at Death Row Records and started saying,
00:52:57
"Where's my damn money?" They would drop off a Bentley. >> And so Tupac would be like, "Okay, well,
00:53:02
I got a Bentley." Oh, he Tupac's Madigan drop off another car. All Tupac's Madigan drop something off. Tupac
00:53:09
thought he owned those cars, >> right? >> He would tell everybody that he owns those cars. After his death, it they
00:53:17
figured out that all those cars that Death Row Records were saying that they're giving him, they were just
00:53:22
leased vehicles. >> Mhm. >> And that Death Row Records owed him a bunch of money. But three days before he
00:53:28
died, his lawyer sent stuff to Death Row Records lawyer stating basically like this is done.
00:53:36
>> Um, and that's why when we were talked about the little meeting that Suge and
00:53:40
Tupac had, it could have been Tupac and and Suge Knight talking about this like,
00:53:45
hey, this is how it's going to go down. >> Now, I don't think Suge is a dumb guy.
00:53:51
Uh, I don't think he's a bright guy either, but he's smart enough to know how to threaten people. He did it with
00:53:58
Dr. Dre when he wanted to leave, and I think if Tupac wanted to leave, maybe he would let him leave, but he's going to
00:54:04
get a percentage of that afterwards. >> Mhm. Well, the thing here with Knight, um, you know, for those of you not
00:54:12
familiar, this is a guy that's no, he's no stranger to being in trouble with the
00:54:18
law, and he's no stranger to probably acts of violence himself, right? >> Um, in 2015, Knight was involved in a
00:54:26
hit-and-run incident that left one man dead and another hospitalized. Uh, now, he did turn himself into the sheriff's
00:54:34
department for that, uh, the following morning. um and at that time was arrested on
00:54:39
suspicion of murder. >> You're right. But if you're going to have a hit on a guy, don't do it when
00:54:43
he's in the car with you. Don't do it while you're driving. >> It doesn't that doesn't make a lot of
00:54:49
sense to me. >> Well, the the incident that I was talking about with the uh the hitand-run
00:54:54
incident, it looks like he is still facing those his court date uh due to some health complications or health
00:55:02
problems he's been having. The the court date keeps getting pushed back. Well, he
00:55:06
pa he passed out when they set bail. >> Uh he passed out in the courtroom. >> Yeah. And at times he's claimed to have
00:55:14
been suffering from blindness um and some other ailments as well. But it sounds like that case the the judge has
00:55:22
said we're taking this thing to court in January of 2018 and there's health concerns, no health concerns. That's
00:55:29
going to be the start of the trial for those charges. Now, another thing here that gets brought up, and you're exactly
00:55:35
right, Captain, he there's no way that in my opinion that he would put himself in the vehicle
00:55:42
that's going to get sprayed with bullets. I mean, the vehicle 14 shots is what's most commonly reported. The other
00:55:50
thing is that that a lot of reports state that you know what that incident with Orlando Anderson in the lobby was
00:55:58
an incident that Suge Knight created in advance because it would give him some kind of out. It would give police some
00:56:05
kind of suspicion that Orlando Anderson and maybe his people were involved and this would pull the guilt or not the
00:56:13
guilt but this would pull a lot of the suspicion off of Suge Knight. The problem with that theory is well Shook
00:56:19
Knight joined in the fight. The dude was on probation and this was a violation of
00:56:24
his probation. He ended up having to go back and spend some time in prison because of the the the situation that
00:56:31
was caught on the surveillance camera that night. >> Right. So, okay. Right. So, then the
00:56:35
other things that are against him is that Tupac was probably leaving. So, if he's leaving then again, he'd still
00:56:43
probably get some percentage. He's still going to make money off of his old albums. If Tupac became bigger, look,
00:56:49
Tupac was probably one of the biggest icons in the world at the time. If he became even bigger than that, Death Row
00:56:56
Records is still going to make a bunch of money off of him >> from his from his past records. So, and
00:57:01
maybe unreleased stuff and things like that. So, uh you know, and also Sug Knight
00:57:08
doesn't ever come forward and says who he thinks did it. He always, it's like he changes his story all the time. Oh,
00:57:15
well, yeah, Tupac's alive. No, Tupac's dead. Tupac's alive. Oh, no. I saw him in Cuba. It's almost like he's just
00:57:21
messing with people. Um, the the the thing he said on record, and when I say on record, I mean in a videotaped
00:57:28
interview that aired a lot of different places. But one thing he said on record that really kind of upset me was that,
00:57:36
you know, the thought is that the FBI stating that or the the police stating that they believe that some of Tupac's
00:57:43
associates know who killed him, >> right? >> And so the question was, if you knew,
00:57:48
Suge, if you knew who killed Pac, would you report that? Would you turn the people in, please? And his answer is,
00:57:56
no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say a thing because it's not my job to do that. It's I don't get paid to solve crimes. Um,
00:58:04
>> right. But then, right, you run a record label and that was your artist. It's
00:58:08
your job to protect the artist, but you weren't really a a businessman or a record label. You're just a thug. That's
00:58:15
what he was. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, and this was your friend. This was your this was your friend.
00:58:21
>> And if he wasn't, he should have been your friend. Right. >> And And the thing is, you can't It is
00:58:26
his job. It's his job on some level. And you could argue it a hundred different ways and you'd be right.
00:58:31
>> Right. And I like I said, I understand that I come from a different uh background and upbringing, but this
00:58:38
whole idea the this uh snitches get stitches whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And and and what also
00:58:47
a couple things. One I think that goes with the idea that that Tupac is actually dead and what goes with the the
00:58:54
thing that uh Chug Knight was not involved was the amount of gang riots and murders after Tupac's death. The
00:59:04
next couple weeks they had a big issue with this. The next suspect on the list is Orlando Anderson himself. You know,
00:59:11
following the boxing match between >> Well, the next theory, >> the next theory, thank you. following
00:59:16
the boxing match. He was the guy that was attacked uh when the fight broke out in the in the lobby. Um you know, and
00:59:22
some stating that this was a fight between rival gangs, the Bloods and the Crips. Um stating that, you know,
00:59:28
Orlando Anderson wanted some form of revenge, you know, that that he got into a scuffle and he got his butt whooped
00:59:36
and, you know, stating what are you going to do now? Well, you're going to go you're going to go get your friends.
00:59:40
>> He got jumped by a bunch of people. you're going to go get your friends and you're going to go out and you're going
00:59:45
to correct this situation, >> right? >> Um I'm not going to lie, I like this theory. Um because uh unfortunately a
00:59:54
lot of times when these things go down in the way that they did, usually it's a result of some form of retaliation.
01:00:00
Somebody felt that they were done wrong. Somebody felt that they were embarrassed
01:00:04
or beat up or robbed or whatever and they [clears throat] go back out and they take some kind of
01:00:09
>> vigilante justice. Well, and there's some weight to this because there was an
01:00:13
I I at least believe one eyewitness that stated that the shooter was Orlando the
01:00:20
night of the shooting. >> Mhm. Well, and the there was some lawsuits involved as well, right? So, we
01:00:26
have Anderson who sues Death Row Records because he's attacked in Las Vegas >> and and what happens in response to that
01:00:35
lawsuit? Well, there's a wrongful death lawsuit against Anderson for the death of Tupac Shakur, correct?
01:00:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. The mother uh Afeni Shakur filed one against Anderson four days later. Now, what what came of that
01:00:49
supposedly is that uh Death Row Records actually settled and that he Orlando would have netted 78,000.
01:00:59
Uh he also reported to some magazine Orlando did in 1997 saying, "Well, I was a fan of Tupac. I was a fan of his
01:01:06
music. >> But again, the night of the shooting, you have a eyewitness calling, I
01:01:13
believe, 911 or the police department saying, "Hey, I know who shot him. It was this guy." Uh, now, who did that
01:01:20
call come from? Could it have just been somebody that was in the scuffle and just had a thought that, well, it's must
01:01:26
have been this guy. >> Yeah. And but the thing here is we have half the equation when it comes to
01:01:32
Orlando, right? We have him in the area and we have a motive. Um, that's that's more than we have for some of the other
01:01:38
people or theories on our list. Now, uh, Orlando was eventually killed in an unrelated gang shooting in 1998. Uh, he
01:01:47
and associate were involved in a shootout with some gang members. Several people died in that situation. His
01:01:53
associate was later charged uh, for his involvement in the shootout. >> Yeah. And there's also some other
01:02:00
I can't I can't find it right now and I don't think you found it in your research, but something to do with
01:02:06
Orlando was already being charged or was already a suspect in another shooting earlier that year.
01:02:14
>> Yeah, he he was definitely questioned in the shootout regarding Tupac. Uh he was
01:02:20
questioned several times. Uh but whatever took place during that questioning period didn't lead to any
01:02:27
arrest. >> Well, and then now we go to uh Powderpuff Daddy. No. And look, I just
01:02:32
making a joke that you know Puffy had a couple good tunes, right? He had uh >> Yeah, but I here I
01:02:39
>> All about the Benjamins. >> Can I go on the record and I'm not doing this to back you up. I just want to
01:02:43
throw my own opinion. Him him talk the Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. That that is annoying on the songs. He had a couple
01:02:50
of his own songs that were decent. He should >> He's like the captain of Bad Boy.
01:02:54
>> He keeps interrupting. >> Yeah. >> Uh he he should have stuck to doing his own stuff and when he was producing just
01:03:00
just produce, man, just produce. >> Yeah. >> Uh the thing is, uh he's a bad dancer,
01:03:05
but he's one hell of a dresser. I'll give him that. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> So anyway, of course, we have the the
01:03:09
rap war, right, theory. Uh Sean Colmes, Biggie. Um >> how how do you want to go about this?
01:03:16
Because people, you could easily lump these two together or you could separate them.
01:03:21
>> And when you say lump these two together, [clears throat] you're talking about the Orlando theory and the Shawn
01:03:28
Puffy Colmes theory. >> Well, well, kind Well, I was going to get to that, but what I meant was when
01:03:34
you talk about Biggie or talk about Shawn Colmes, do you want to lump them together as one suspect or talk about
01:03:41
them separately? >> Uh, just lump them together, I guess. Okay. Because >> I don't think, look, I I think a lot of
01:03:50
these, you know, it takes a special type of person to want to create content, to
01:03:55
want to rap, to want to create music, to for, you know, to write a book or whatever, right?
01:04:00
>> Mhm. >> And I think some of these guys, not saying that, you know, you know, Puffy
01:04:04
didn't want to create cuz he he produced some stuff, but people like Suge Knight,
01:04:08
they weren't creating. They were just, you know, one of the things in interviews that bring up all the time
01:04:13
with Tupac is, well, you're getting pimped. That's what they say to them. You're being pimped by the record
01:04:19
industry, you know, or these record label guys. So I don't think I mean yeah you might
01:04:26
grow up and there's might be some violent tendencies in how you grow up but I think both these individuals even
01:04:33
though they had you know Biggie and Tupac even though they had some of violent things I think a lot of that was
01:04:39
more because of the people around them and >> well and I think with Biggie a lot of it
01:04:44
was a bit of show um yeah you know I think that he was a hardcore rapper I don't know that he was a hardcore dude
01:04:52
Um, I didn't I never really got that sense from him. U, but the thing here is, Captain, you know, when we get into
01:04:59
this, when when when it first comes out, it's it it's brought up that that Notorious B.I. basically put out a hit
01:05:08
on Tupac, >> right? Um the the thing that we're going to get to here when you dive down into
01:05:15
it, it's actually it's more mentioned that it came from Shawn Colmes and that that Biggie actually had nothing to do
01:05:23
with this incident. Now, what we're talking about here is former LAPD cop Greg Kading. Uh he says he was involved
01:05:32
in a special task force investigating uh these different cases. >> Yeah. He started with the Big E murder
01:05:38
though, >> which led him to to the Tupac investigation on his own. >> And he claimed in a 2016 documentary
01:05:46
that Shawn Cololmes had paid gang members uh [ __ ] gang members Dwayne Keith Davis uh 100 I'm sorry, $1 million
01:05:56
to carry out the murder. >> Yeah. Well, and it's kind of weird because it's blurry. the the the rumor
01:06:04
was that that he it wasn't that he just gave him a hundred or gave him $1 million. It was just if this happens, I
01:06:12
will pay you. >> Right. And that was my going to be my question to you because when I dove into
01:06:17
this thing, it was confusing to me. Was this an outright hit or was it a bounty?
01:06:23
Because there's they're two completely different things. A hit, you pay someone. Here's here's your this is our
01:06:28
agreement. Go kill the person. A bounty is more like Job of the Hut. That's like, you know what? If somebody brings
01:06:34
me this guy, there's a reward. So, it sounds to me more like a bounty. Uh th this guy, his his name that he goes by
01:06:45
is uh Kei D. Uh so, we'll call him Kei D, but he lived he lived or was from the Los Angeles area.
01:06:53
>> Hold on. He goes by Kefi D, so we're going to call him Kefi D. Well, it's easier than saying Dwayne Keith Davis
01:06:59
every time. >> So, this guy, he lives around, from my understanding, lived around the Los
01:07:05
Angeles area. Yeah. >> Um, well, if if he if you were going to put a bounty out on somebody and he's
01:07:11
from the the [ __ ] he's a [ __ ] member, >> uh, and you wanted Tupac dead, well,
01:07:16
Tupac would have been in that area. This seems like a likely thing here. Um, but
01:07:21
the way that this story goes is a little different. It's not taking place in Los
01:07:26
Angeles. It's taking place in Las Vegas, right? Why? Because >> happen stance though.
01:07:31
>> Kephy D happens to be in Las Vegas. He claims that he and a bunch of friends, a
01:07:36
bunch of associates were going to be in Vegas for the fight that weekend, >> right?
01:07:42
>> The situation is this. Who is Kei D? Well, he is the uncle of Orlando Anderson.
01:07:49
>> Mhm. Well, Orlando Anderson is attacked by Tupac that evening, >> right? >> And so after that attack goes down,
01:07:58
Orlando Kefi D and all these guys are sitting around talking about this, you know, well, how are we going to correct
01:08:03
this situation because we just we just look like we got punked now. We going to we're going to correct this situation
01:08:09
here. Oh, wait a second. Isn't there that uh isn't there that bounty out there? Isn't there this situation out
01:08:16
there that somebody could make a whole lot of money, >> right? and we might be going after this
01:08:20
guy anyway for our own reasons tonight. So why don't we just >> Makes a bunch of sense.
01:08:24
>> Yeah. Why don't we just do both at once? >> Mhm. >> So the way that I understand this
01:08:29
situation now, these are Kefi D's words. This is his >> You can listen to his There's an actual
01:08:36
audio confession. >> Yeah. And he's confessing that him along with what it's it's seven guys. It's
01:08:43
eight guys total in the beginning, >> right? So they they have their crew of people. Now the one of the interesting
01:08:49
things was people said, "Well, or Orlando had no ticket to the fight. So why was
01:08:55
he at the fight?" A lot of people call him a pawn, you know, like, "Well, we'll set him up for the conspiracy theory."
01:09:01
Well, the reason why he was at the fight is cuz some of his crew was at the fight. They had tickets, but he didn't
01:09:07
have a ticket. So, hey, you guys go to the fight. I'm just going to stay out here in the lobby. when he gets caught
01:09:12
in the lobby with um Death Row Records, that's when the fight breaks out. So then while they're there and uh KD's um
01:09:20
um buddy or whatever says, "Hey, you can take care of that hit now." Like killed
01:09:26
two birds with one stone, right? >> Right. >> Well, we don't have any guns. The guy
01:09:30
goes, "Here's my gun." Gives him the gun. They pull up on Pac. You want me to keep going?
01:09:35
>> Well, yeah. The guy's name that he goes by, the guy that supplied the gun, he
01:09:39
goes by the name Zip, >> right? So, Zip gives him the gun. Uh, what were they renting that weekend?
01:09:46
>> H, one of the guys, his mother had rented the late model white Cadillac. So, they had access to a vehicle
01:09:54
matching the description. They have access to a firearm. >> So, what they do is they pull up,
01:10:00
they're in the right hand lane. Uh, no. Actually, so what happens is what KiD says. He says that they go to the 662
01:10:09
club >> and they decide, okay, well, we're going to drink a little liquor. We're going to
01:10:12
smoke a little weed. We're going to go to 662 club. And that's where Tupac's supposed to be.
01:10:18
>> It sounds to me like they were trying to ambush Tupac and Sugge Knight in the
01:10:22
parking lot of the 662 club, right? >> So, they pull up and they have two vehicles. There's four guys in each
01:10:28
vehicle. They sit there for about 20 minutes or so and during the course of this time when Tupac and Suge Knight are
01:10:35
not showing up, some of the guys start to get cold feet and they start to worry about what you know, the situation just
01:10:41
got real. You know, you can sit behind closed doors and say you're going to take down these people, but once you're
01:10:46
in the car and you get to the location, >> once you're at the parking lot, >> oh man, I would have ran out of there
01:10:51
faster than >> straight poop yourself, [laughter] you know. >> But I tell you what,
01:10:55
>> oh, excuse me. >> So, some of the guys start to get cold feet. KVD is in one vehicle. He's not in
01:11:00
the Cadillac at this point. And he tells the other guys, "You know what? Go off.
01:11:03
Do whatever you want. I'm going to hop in this other car." He hops in the Cadillac. So now in the Cadillac, we
01:11:09
have the driver. He goes by the name T. Brown. Uh we have Kefi D riding shotgun.
01:11:15
Behind the driver, we have DeAndre. He goes by He goes by Dre. And then behind Kefi D in the in the back passenger
01:11:24
right hand side >> is Orlando. >> is Orlando. And so they decide that they're going to
01:11:30
go I guess they're going to go look for Pac and look for SH. >> Well, I think the idea was more like,
01:11:36
"Well, let's go get some more booze. Maybe we'll get some more weed possibly >> and then work our way back to
01:11:41
>> and then we'll work our way back." And so as they're going up and down this strip, they're like, "Well, maybe we'll
01:11:46
run into them there." Well, as they pull up to this intersection, there's these girls screaming, "Pack, pac." Right now,
01:11:54
there's four girls in a grease green Sebring and they're um they're interviewed often.
01:12:01
>> So, they're the ones that drew the attention to to the >> location of Pac, >> right? So, now they're like, "Well,
01:12:08
there he is." So, Kei D turns around and hands the gun to Dre because Dre would be in the back passenger side and Kei D
01:12:16
is like, "Well, I'm not going to shoot him." >> Yeah. Because Kephi D was was the one
01:12:21
claiming he would shoot at the vehicle that he would shoot Suge and he would shoot Tupac. But their original, you
01:12:28
know, when they see the vehicle, their first thought is, well, get up on the left hand side so Kefi D in the
01:12:33
passenger seat can reach out the window and and spray the car, >> but they couldn't because if you look at
01:12:39
the positioning of the cars in the intersection, they couldn't get to the left side of their car. So, they're
01:12:44
forced to pull up on the right hand side. Now, Kefi D sitting in the front seat, he does not want to reach over the
01:12:50
driver and and blast in front of the face of his driver. So, as the captain says, he tries to hand the gun to Dre,
01:12:59
who's sitting directly behind the driver. >> Dre says, "You know what? I don't want
01:13:04
anything to do with this. Get that thing away from me." It's [clears throat] then
01:13:07
that we have Orlando, who was attacked earlier that evening. He decides to take the gun. He grabs the gun from Kei D. He
01:13:14
reaches over Dre and he puts his hand just outside of the window and he shoots the car as many times as he can.
01:13:22
>> Right. And then they drive off. This is what Kefi D says. So then they drive off. They turn right on the intersection
01:13:30
and then all of a sudden they realize that a car is following him. Now what Kefi D says is, "Well, we thought it was
01:13:35
the girl and the the girls chasing after us, >> but he claims that there was some
01:13:39
gunshots." So then they fire back and as we know uh based off of the u statements
01:13:46
that u >> from Frank Alexander the bodyguard >> the bodyguard and the other outlaws they
01:13:52
claimed that they chased after this white Cadillac. >> Mhm. >> So again he now this is not heavily
01:13:59
reported that there was other shots after the the first shootings with Tupac. So, the fact that Kefi D actually
01:14:06
states this to me has more validity with his story. >> Right. Right. And uh and it also
01:14:13
explains why the uh the members from Death Row decide to stop pursuing the vehicle.
01:14:21
>> Yeah. And then what Kefi D claims is that see now he grew up with Suge Knight. And what he claims is that when
01:14:30
Orlando was shooting at the car that Suge Knight made eye contact with Kei D. And he knew uh that Kefi D and his crew
01:14:40
were responsible for the death of Tupac. >> Yeah. And he also states that he thought
01:14:45
that Suge Knight would die that night because he thought he was hit in the head with a bullet.
01:14:49
>> Right. So then after they get away from uh the other vehicle, the bodyguards,
01:14:55
then what happens? Well, the the guys they park their white Cadillac and they actually park it it's strange because
01:15:03
they park it somewhere that's very close to where Suge Knight's car ends up at the at the end of the night. Uh they
01:15:10
park their vehicle and they put the gun, the way I understand it, they put the gun on top of the tire uh to kind of
01:15:17
hide it for the evening. They go off and party for the night and then the following day they go back to the
01:15:23
vehicle. They check the vehicle, make sure that there's no loose shell casings inside the vehicle.
01:15:29
>> Well, they're very lucky that the cops didn't find that vehicle. >> Mhm. >> Because all they would have to do I I
01:15:35
think uh even with it being on the wheel well, I I don't think they would need a
01:15:40
search warrant for that. >> Well, they of course they wouldn't need a a search warrant for that. I think
01:15:44
part of that is why they left the gun outside of the vehicle because if there was nothing inside proving that that gun
01:15:52
was inside the vehicle, then they could claim that somebody else just put that gun there. The problem is then they
01:15:59
would have to explain why they have rented a vehicle that matches the description of the car that was
01:16:06
supposedly shot at Tupac. uh and why that that rental car could be traced back to one of those those men in the
01:16:13
vehicle. >> All right. So, let's try to put a bow on this theory. Right. >> Mhm.
01:16:19
>> Now, this theory, I think, holds a lot of weight to me. And a lot of people would say, well, this guy is, you know,
01:16:25
KVD was just a criminal anyways, and he gave this confession, I believe, when he
01:16:29
was in jail. But where is the proof? Well, here's here's a couple things. out of the four people in the car that we we
01:16:36
have proof that three of them were in Vegas. Now, one of them claims they weren't in Vegas, but I think two of
01:16:43
those guys then claimed that guy was actually in Vegas with them. >> Yeah. My understanding is that it's the
01:16:48
driver of the vehicle says that he was not in Vegas that weekend. And as you just mentioned, the only other two guys
01:16:55
that are still alive that were in that vehicle that night say he was the driver of the Cadillac.
01:17:01
>> Well, right. And we also have the surveillance footage, I don't know if it's FBI surveillance footage or not,
01:17:07
but to me, you can see a white Cadillac on the footage >> of the parking lot at 662.
01:17:13
>> Yeah. Whether or not you can see KeiD, I swear at some point I saw footage that I
01:17:19
could see him on it, but I I can't I can't find it to to show you. And I think that there's probably no question
01:17:28
that that we favor this theory better than the others that we presented. That's part of the reason why we saved
01:17:34
it for last. That's part of the reason why you hear us jumping out of our chairs to talk about it, right?
01:17:39
>> The thing here for me is because it all kind of lines up. Uh there there are some questions that I have and I'll get
01:17:46
to those in a minute. But the thing here is, >> okay, we have people that put themselves
01:17:50
in the area. >> Uh they have the means. They say that they had access to a gun. They were
01:17:56
driving a vehicle that matches the description given by everybody. There's no question about the description of the
01:18:02
vehicle. >> And we also have a motive. We have an obvious motive. And not only do we have
01:18:07
an obvious motive, but to me, I see all kinds of motives when you claim that these guys are the ones that carried out
01:18:14
the murder. And it looks to me as though they in their intention was to shoot Suge and Tupac was to kill both of them
01:18:24
is what it appears to me because as he states that they would have preferred to have pulled up on the left side of the
01:18:31
vehicle and fired into the vehicle in that manner. Now we could have seen a different result with that. We could
01:18:38
have seen a Suge Knight get killed and a Tupac survive the attack had it gone down that way. But again, I their
01:18:45
motives uh retaliation. >> Well, also T and also Tupac's mom then files a wrongful death against this guy
01:18:52
as well. >> We have the retaliation thought for the motivation. We also have just the gang
01:18:57
aspect uh for the motivation. And then the the icing on the cake for their motivation would be that they could
01:19:04
stand to make a whole lot of money if in fact that this bounty that was supposedly put out by Shawn Colmes if it
01:19:11
was in fact a real thing. >> Mhm. >> The problem the only problem I see with the confession itself is the involvement
01:19:20
of Shawn Colmes. I I it to me I don't I don't I don't I don't make the connection. Uh, I understand that it's
01:19:30
probably, you know, it was a general suspicion by people at the time. Um, I think it makes for a better story for
01:19:37
KD. >> It also could have just been a rumor that Kiff heard. >> It might not actually been something
01:19:43
that came from Tupac's or not Tupac from Puffy's mouth. Right. >> Right. Right. And I think if there were
01:19:49
a large amount of money and I know Puffy, somebody that has the ability to deal in large amounts of money, but if
01:19:56
seeing a movement of that amount of money exchange hands, >> FBI or CIA would >> would have set off some big red flags
01:20:04
here. So where where I stand in my opinion is that this this theory makes the most sense. Well, and and on top of
01:20:12
that, LAPD when they were doing the investigation, a lot of detectives that have done work on this investigation all
01:20:20
think that the murders came from somebody from the Southside uh Crips. >> Mhm. >> And these guys were members.
01:20:27
>> And And just to be clear, you didn't misspeak there because you're saying LAPD and this took place in Las Vegas.
01:20:33
The thing here is we're seeing information coming out of former LAPD detectives and officers that are saying
01:20:40
we started investigating the biggie portion of this of this story, >> right? And
01:20:45
>> because this is what happened in our area. We started to see we started to look to see if there were ties between
01:20:51
the two murders and it led us to our own personal investigations into Tupac's murder and this is the theories and and
01:20:59
the things that we're seeing come to light now. Well, and on top of that, after the murders, like I said, there
01:21:04
was gang violence and shootings for weeks and weeks afterwards as a retaliation. Now, why would there be a
01:21:12
retaliation if your gang was not involved, >> right? >> It doesn't make any sense.
01:21:17
>> Well, and the thing here is I want to go on record stating this very clearly. I
01:21:21
think that this was a a gang uh a gang related murder. The thing here is I want to be very clear. I'm not stating that
01:21:30
it was Tupac that was in some kind of rivalry gang. I I believe this was carried out by a gang, probably with
01:21:37
people with gang ties. These guys, this confession from Kefi D, that all falls into that theory,
01:21:44
>> right? and and what we talked a lot about when we were researching this case. Um I'm just fascinated by Tupac in
01:21:52
general and I feel like he has I feel like the weight that he was carrying in his words doesn't get enough respect
01:22:00
from people that are outside of the hip-hop community. So if you if you're a hip-hop fan or if you're a rap fan, then
01:22:07
yes, this then Tupac was this icon. >> We ain't telling you something you don't already know,
01:22:12
>> right? But if you're not in this world and that that's not something you're interested in, then you're like, why the
01:22:18
heck are they covering this guy? Look, I'm a huge Beatles fan. As much as John Lennon was an icon to this world, so was
01:22:26
Tupac Shakur. And I think when you look into the FBI or the CIA or the Illuminati or he's still alive, all
01:22:34
these odd theories, it's because at the end of the day, somebody that was so magical of an individual,
01:22:42
you know, >> influential. >> Yeah. Well, don't say influencer because now if you have a a bunch of people
01:22:49
following you on Instagram, they call you influencer. I'm going to say this and maybe I'll get some heat from it and
01:22:55
I don't give I don't give a [ __ ] Okay. this guy was possibly some form of a prophet, right? I think that same
01:23:04
thought about John Lennon. I think that same thought about Muhammad Ali. I think
01:23:08
that same thought about Malcolm X. I think that same thought about Martin Luther King. This guy was saying things
01:23:15
that were relevant and he didn't have to. He was a multi-millionaire and he wasn't getting paid what he should have,
01:23:22
right? But his label's holding this money. He was not getting paid what he should
01:23:28
have. But he he had all this money. He had all this power. He didn't have to say this stuff. He could have just kept
01:23:34
to himself, you know, stayed in his own lane, eyes on the prize, been greedy, be selfish. I think because of his
01:23:45
upbringing, his intelligence, the way he saw the world, he would even say in interviews, "My brain sees things
01:23:52
different than most." And I believe and if you look at somebody that I think is a a musical genius, Quincy Jones, Quincy
01:24:02
Jones's daughter was was dating him and he said when you met Tupac, this guy was
01:24:08
on a different level as if he was touched by the hands of God or something. That's his state. That's what
01:24:14
he is saying. So I think all these other theories that he's still alive or maybe
01:24:19
the CIA killed him or the government. I think because at the end of the day, this guy was so special and so magical
01:24:26
that you don't want to believe some, you know, and let's say what Orlando was, he
01:24:32
was a thug, but he was also a young naive thug. And for whatever reason, uh, you don't want to believe that this guy
01:24:42
could take out somebody so powerful and so magical. I won't use the word prophet. I think all those guys were
01:24:49
great men. I think the loss here is that in my opinion, Tupac had the potential to grow into becoming a great man,
01:24:58
right? >> I think that he was incredibly talented, incredibly smart. I think I see a very
01:25:04
impulsive young man uh making some poor decisions. >> Yeah. Um >> obviously, yeah. What what I'm getting
01:25:11
at though is I think that if he could have stayed out of trouble, which would have been very likely if he could have
01:25:17
removed himself from some of those bad elements that had worked their way into his life,
01:25:22
>> that I think he could have grown into being he was already something special,
01:25:26
but he could have grown into being something very positive uh for himself and for everybody, for all of us.
01:25:34
Because I would have loved to have seen a Tupac in his 30s. I would have loved to seen a Tupac in his 40s,
01:25:41
>> right? Especially I mean not even just as a rapper, but as a [clears throat] as
01:25:44
an actor, he was amazing actor. >> Yes, he was. And the thing here is I'm I just think that we didn't get to
01:25:50
experience all the things that I know he was capable of. >> Yeah. And when I say prophet, I don't
01:25:56
mean like hands of God. What I mean, it's somebody I I believe that there's people that are put on this earth,
01:26:04
right? We're all put on this earth somehow, right? but that some of these individuals have something inside them
01:26:11
and they can't stop it. And I don't think he could stop himself from trying to help others or trying to present the
01:26:21
truth or ways to others. That's what I mean by all that. >> Well, we might get some more insight
01:26:27
into these stories because I I noticed A&E is doing a big uh Notorious B.I. and Tupac uh type documentary. We also have
01:26:36
Tupac's movie coming out sometime this month. >> I'm not excited about it. >> I'm not excited about the movie. I'm
01:26:42
excited about the A&E uh documentaries that are coming out. And what was the what was the title of the thing that we
01:26:49
we found the the confession from in case anybody wants to go look it up for themselves?
01:26:54
>> Yeah, if anybody's interested in looking more into these and also the Big East
01:26:59
side, which I I would like to dive more into the Big East side as well. um big fan of his.
01:27:06
Uh it's called Murder Rap and you can check out that book anywhere really. Amazon maybe.
01:27:13
>> Yeah, it's definitely on Amazon. I was just checking it out myself. Uh and if
01:27:16
you want to go and check out our recommended reading, go to true crimegar.com. We'll have that up there for you and you
01:27:22
can purchase anything uh any of those recommended books through our Amazon app if you like. Thanks everybody for
01:27:27
joining us in the garage. Make sure you check out the website trueimerg.com. Make sure you follow us on social media
01:27:33
if you're not already. You're very late to the game. We will see everybody back here next week in the garage. Until
01:27:39
then, please be good, please be kind, and don't litter. [music]