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[Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that once got busy in a Burger King bathroom he is
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the captain Joe I look funny but I'm still making money it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] tonight we are drinking liquid Sunshine
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by our fantastic friends from Breakside Brewery in Portland Oregon garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five
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malt and how do they get this unfiltered beer to be as bright as sunshine it's magic my friends so go get you some
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Humpty Dance first up we have Brandon and Dale down in Queen Creek Arizona and we have Carol in Chicago Illinois next
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Anna from Texas and last but not least we have Christina in North Hollywood California so thanks everybody for
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garage.com and click on the donate button and again a reminder to everybody in parts of known we are behind when it
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comes to the Beer fun shout outs so just be patient we'll get to everybody in time don't go nowhere yeah just be
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patient because we love each and every one of you that's enough of the business Captain everybody gather round grab a
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] my name is Tony Young and I'm Byron's
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stepfather our families ask me to speak on their behalf today I would just like to say Kyron we miss
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you we love you and we need you home right now we're doing everything we can to work
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with the law enforcement and the search and the rescue crews to make sure that you can get back to us as soon as
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possible we want to say how much we appreciate the outpouring of love and support
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prayer and thoughts as we wait for you your school friends and their families the teachers the staff at your school
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and the community as a whole have shown how much impact one little boy's smile can have on a community
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you mean everything to us and until you come home this family is not complete please Chiron keep up the hope
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we believe in you and we know we will be back with us soon I'd like to now introduce kyron's father
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Kane Gorman [Applause] hi I'm Kane Karen's father we want to thank the community the
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parents the children bus drivers and all of those or who are being interviewed multiple times to help my car
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thank you we as the family know how difficult and stressful this is when your memories and
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statements can help us find Kyrie we will never be able to thank you enough for that help
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finally we would like to thank the media if it was not for you showing Chiron on
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every newscast printing his story in the papers his face would not be known to everyone
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people from around the nation have seen his picture this helps tremendously please help us bring iron
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[Music] it's a parent's worst nightmare most of us have been there you turn your head
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only for a minute and when you look back your child is out of sight your heart sinks your muscles tighten and your mind
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begins to race you're stunned and you're shocked at the same time but just as your mind races towards strange and
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scary thoughts you see your child again running and playing everything is fine then you tell yourself you're crazy to
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think such things you reassure yourself I'm a good parent and that would never happen to my kid we live in a safe
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neighborhood and my kids go to good schools where they have plenty of friends and good teachers looking after
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them we are safe my children are safe but unfortunately that is not always true but Don't Panic it's it's rare it's
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rare for a child to be taken by a stranger but even more rare and even more rare occurrence is a child taken
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from their school this is not supposed to happen our schools are a place where our children should be safe from a
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predator but then again that is not always the case now our story today is about Chiron
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Horman and he was born in Portland Oregon on September 9 2002. this series is about Chiron
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however there are a lot of key players a lot of people that we need to discuss in
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this case a lot of moving Parts as some would say and I think we should take some time here Captain to set this up to
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explain the family of Chiron to everybody's before we get into this so it doesn't get confusing later alright
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so let's start with the fact that kyron's parents are divorced and Kyron lives with his father and his stepmother
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the majority of the time yes uh so the father is Kane Horman and the stepmother is Terry Horman uh Terry was born in
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1970 she was adopted she spent her younger years growing up in California and then later her family this is a
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family of five moved to Oregon she married when she was 21 married a guy that she had gone to high school
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with in 1994 she had her first kid her son James in 1995 Terry and her husband split up now the following year Terry
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married for the second time her second husband would later adopt Terry's son James this sounds like James's
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biological father may have had some trouble keeping up with the child support payments there were some
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financial troubles on his end and with Terry now remarried she had been suggesting to James's biological father
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that he allowed the adoption to take place in 1998 Terry started college and later
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went into teaching at elementary schools as a substitute teacher she had a lot of
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long-term contracts as far as being a substitute teacher in 2002 Terry and her second husband ended up getting a
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divorce so now the second husband is paying Terry's child support um after this divorce in 2002 Terry met
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Kane Horman and they began a romantic Affair at this time Kane is still married to his wife
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Desiree his wife Desiree is pregnant late in the pregnancy with their son Chiron
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Desiree files for a divorce when she is eight months pregnant shortly after Cain and Desiree's son
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Chiron is born then we have Cain and Terry and her son James they the three of them move in
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together Desiree starts having some health problems and these seem to be I don't
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know the specifics but they seem to be pretty severe it's some kind of kidney problem or kidney issue like a long-term
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deal and she's trying to recover from them it's once she gets sick that she gives uh Terry the stepmother and Cain
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become the primary Caregivers for Chiron when you're right after she's sick okay
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yeah so catching up with chiron's biological mother Desiree after the divorce she would eventually marry a man
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by the name of Tony Young and they would move to Medford Oregon go ahead and this
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is going to be her third marriage correct yes so it's actually a similar situation when you think of both of
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these women we have Desiree Young who's the biological mother of Chiron she's been married three times by the point of
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this story um her first marriage she had a child and then she met Cain after they were
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divorced from her first husband and they got married and then this affair happens
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and they split up and she moves on with her life right now she has two children correct and then we have on the other
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end we have the father Cain who is was once married to Desiree has this affair and then he ends up married to Terry
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Orman right so if your head's spinning right now I apologize but uh okay so Chiron lives
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with Terry his stepmother correct and Cain his father and so a lot of times in this story we'll just instead of just
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using their name we probably should say his father or a stepmother and then uh his mother Desiree and her husband Tony
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they live together so instead of calling them by their names we'll say mother and
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stepfather now and even though Terry and Kane the stepmother and father started their relationship in 2002 it wouldn't
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be until 2007 that the two would get married in 2008 the stepmother Terry gets pregnant and the two have a
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daughter together alright so we have father and stepmother and then we have Chiron
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we have his half-sister she's younger and his stepbrother that's older that's one household living in the greater
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Portland area yes right and then about 300 miles away we have his mother and stepfather and possibly
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um like a stepbrother correct I don't know the child situation at that household but it's but it's the
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stepfather and his mother living in Medford Oregon as you said about 300 miles away and these characters are the
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main pieces of the puzzle of this case correct and in the clip that we played for the trailer You Hear The Stepfather
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Tony Young speaking first and then you hear chiron's biological father Cain speaking second and not all the
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time when there's a blended family is there a healthy Dynamic so what do you think the dynamic was you know before
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The Disappearance okay well here's my thoughts um they seem to be a unified group of
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four people um we have a situation where the stepmother she's involved with Chiron
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from a very young age I mean he's an infant when when when she's in his life right uh which which is because she's
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banging the father why the the mother was pregnant okay there are some things to talk about there but before we get
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into that the the one thing that's like that's a little bit of a slap in the face is you have the situation with
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chiron's eventual stepmother who she's on her third marriage but she has her child with her first marriage and then
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she moves on gets a divorce and we have a situation where she remarries and then
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she's saying you know what first guy you're having trouble keeping up with these child payments
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um maybe maybe you should uh let my current husband adopt your son well that's all well and good right that I
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mean that could make sense I guess but but then ultimately you end up splitting up with that guy and now he has taken on
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the child support payments for a child that he adopted here's my thoughts and I'm not trying to give advice to anybody
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because you know the ladies out there want to go there's this this is such a dude comment yeah but there's like a
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detail you're missing so like they get married then she convinces him or maybe he wanted to hey you know the guy's
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paying for the kid anyways because they live together and they're like hey adopt
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my kid but I think maybe maybe it was nefarious and then it's like hey we're gonna split and then she said to him hey
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what do the five fingers say to the face slap slap and then she's like now you got to pay for him you know for the rest
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of your life and or until he's 18. yeah but what I mean here Captain is I'm not trying to give anybody any advice on
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what to do you got to analyze your own life your own situation make your decisions on what's best for you but you
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kind of hinted on something there for a second because my thought would be as the second husband my thought would be
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well what do I really care if this guy can't keep up with the payments or if he's having some financial trouble
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I'm I'm assisting my wife and paying for the the raising of her child anyway the
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kids taken care of right they're we're not increasing any any financial obligation uh that I already have by
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making this a legal deal yeah but I I'm assuming that the stepfather did it because he loved the kid uh but it but
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that's also nice too though for the stepfather because once they did divorce uh I mean I think he would have some
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rights I could be wrong since he legally adopted the kid he would have some rights to actually see the kid yeah
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I guess he was paying a small uh stipend every month for the child support and at
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some point Terry had requested an increase of about um now that see that's wrong it was
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pretty small though she he was paying like 120 100 I don't have the numbers in front of me but it was pretty small it
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was like a hundred and twenty dollars a month let's say yeah which is is not enough to raise a kid obviously but and
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I think she requested that it be increased to 500 a month um which is probably more accurate what
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it takes to help raise the child but it seems like a significant increase when you're starting to talk about 120 a
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month right but also if you're going uh after child support let's go after the biological father to pay this so it
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seems like a lot of time and effort to kind of keep screwing somebody over but in her defense we don't know how that
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marriage turned out or why it ended right now for all we know this uh you know or tell on one side of the story
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but you know if I told you hey well they got married and this guy became very abusive and controlling and possessive
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then we might not be thinking that she's such in the wrong for doing this and then we have the situation where she
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meets Cain and Kane at the at this point his wife is at home and she's late in the pregnancy with their child yeah and
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then some type of relationship begins between uh Terry and Cain and then he's got to get a divorce you know his wife
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Desiree files for a divorce very late in her pregnancy I was reading somewhere that uh infilled infidelity and
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marriages goes up quite a bit during pregnancy during the pregnancy which is become pretty sad yeah
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um again though I guess it's another one of those situations where we don't know
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all the ins and outs of their relationship you know and the thing is I I think it's easy to point out and go
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you know what this cane guy is a pretty bad dude for running around on his pregnant wife yes that's that's easy we
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could easily say that and I think everybody would agree with us the problem I have is that I I've learned
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later in my life to try to quit judging who the bad guy or bad girl is and these
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relationships when they don't work out or when somebody's doing something wrong because I've proved myself incorrect
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multiple times just from people I've known growing up and throughout the years you know where I might think this
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has you know I'll be friends with both of the people involved in the relationship and I'll be like you know
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this this my buddy this husband I don't know that he's he's a great guy like he he doesn't work a whole lot he seems to
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really enjoy just kind of drinking beer and playing video games more than being a grown-up yeah all he does is drink
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beer and do a podcast yeah and you're like how does this this this wonderful woman stay with him and then you know
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later I end up finding out that uh she's running around on him and that's why she's gone all the time so it's like you
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know you you think you know who the bad guy is and you really we don't know when
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we look at our friends in our family we don't we don't fully know the the complete eliteness of the relationship
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and what's going on yeah I thought you're going to show example of somebody that cheated that maybe wasn't in the
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wrong like you know where I look cheating is bad you shouldn't cheat on people but right there are situations
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that you hear the story and you go oh that makes a little sense yeah I guess I didn't really present it from the total
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opposite perspective you know I didn't do a 180 on anybody I actually ended up right where I started yeah and I thought
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of another I thought of another story of some of some friends of mine that ended
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up in a in a divorce and but really it's not any different than the story I just
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told so we can we can skip but there are some times where like people have been in a relationship for a very long time
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and the other person isn't affectionate or doesn't care and basically just acts like their buddy or you know and then
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the it leads the person to cheat you know eventually but you know they they basically didn't you know bound check
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wow wow for a couple years and then they just like I can't take it anymore and I
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and that's probably the only time that I'll ever tell somebody like yeah it's probably okay that you cheated you know
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um even though I'd I'd start with how about you just break the relationship off first yeah you know if if you're not
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bounce like a Wow Wow for a couple years then maybe it's time to move on yeah but anyways
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we're speaking of moving on we should move on because now everybody's out there judging us as we're talking about
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people that we that we know and let's get back to something we know something about and that that is crime uh and
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let's get away from this uh Dr Phil stuff yeah we'll get into The Disappearance of Chiron Horman right
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after this quick [Music] foreign [Music] let's fast forward to Friday June 4th 2010 the place is multiple County Oregon
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uh Kyron Horman is seven years old at this time and he is attending Skyline Elementary school he's in a split class
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a second and third grade split class and Chiron is in the second grade at 8 A.M Skyline Elementary opens early
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so students and parents can tour the science fair the school sign outside reads June 4 science fair slash expo
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from 8 AM to 10 a.m and then there's a talent show from 1pm to 2 45 p.m now Chiron was to take part in both the
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science fair and the talent show that day he's going to be driven to school that day by his stepmother and they're
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going to arrive a little bit after 8 A.M yes and Terry the stepmother she drove her husband's vehicle that day this is a
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Ford a white Ford F-250 the reason for her driving her husband's vehicle is that for the science fair there's a
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presentation that's going to take place and every parent that's had a child involved in one of these things they
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know that you got to transport all of their things for their for their setup at this science fair Expo and these can
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be large large things you know you have a diorama and things of that nature I'm not certain I believe that those items
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were technically dropped off the day before where they were placed and housed somewhere in the school and then later
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set up in this area that people would tour and view these things my understanding is that Terry the
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stepmother drove the F-250 to school that day with the intention of picking those items up when they were done and
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returning them to the home so in the father's truck we have Terry the Stepmom we have Kyron and then we have his
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half-sister with them as well and she's just she's pretty young correct and so so the stepmother doesn't just drop
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Kyron off she actually goes into the school with him and the reason for this is she's going to tour this science fair
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with Chiron um and so we know that both of them were there they set up this area where you
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have more than one classroom where you set these things up so there's you know multiple rooms that you're going in and
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out of to view what the students have put together and at some point Kyron is going to pose in front of his uh science
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fair project and she's going to take a picture of him later she posts that to Facebook but this is also going to be a
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you know probably the most famous picture of Chiron yes and at around 8 15 a.m Gina Zimmerman she's the PTA
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president that's the parents and Teachers Association PTA for short she arrives at the school and she sees
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Chiron with his stepmother in front of his Science Fair exhibit the stepmother and Kyron spend a little time touring
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the science fair together so Kyron was brought to school as we said by his stepmother and then she stayed with him
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for a while and attended the science fair we know this because of the eyewitnesses statement around 8 45 A.M
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Terry the stepmother she's getting ready to leave the school and she says that she watched Chiron walking toward his
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classroom she then leaves the school after watching Kyron walk toward this classroom he's he's feet from the door
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of his classroom and I know you stated the date but this is a Friday and this has been reported by several people that
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it was the last Friday of the year but this is not true correct there would be more than one more week of school after
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this Friday around 10 a.m classes begin for that day remember the we said the Expo was to go from 8 AM to 10 a.m at
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some point kyron's homeroom teacher this is Christina Porter reports Kyron is absent marks him is absent for the day
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now one thing that's going to be very tricky for us Captain is persons involved in the investigation well some
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have declined to provide some details of the investigation including when school
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officials marked Kyron Horman as absent on June 4th okay what does that mean well obviously that would help narrow
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down when he's last seen the issue here is a lot of the early reports that came out and still a lot of the reports to
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this date state that at some point he is marked absent um what what I find to be probably more
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true is that at no point is he marked as attending so let's dive into this a little bit we have the stepmother saying
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that she takes Karen to school she has the daughter with her they go to the science fair she takes a picture of
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Karen about 8 45 or so Kyron is going to head to his class yes and this is going
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to be his homeroom but the homeroom doesn't actually start till 10 o'clock and then she claims like she never
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actually sees Chiron go into the uh the classroom but you know he's at school so
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he's safe so she leaves that's the story but we have no record or as far as like
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what the school is telling us is they came and tell us if he's marked in attendance at home room correct it well
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as far as reporting goes it's reported that at some point he's marked absent this day
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um after this 8 45 time frame now what what I find to be true is nowhere do we ever see it reported that he's a marked
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he's marked as attending a single class right but we have eyewitnesses and obviously the photograph that proves
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that he was at the school he was at the school correct yeah but they didn't take
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attendance during the science fair no no they wouldn't do that so now we have as
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the captain said we have let's go to 1 21 p.m uh Terry Horman the stepmother she is at home she's returned to her
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home and she posts photos of Chiron at the science fair on her Facebook page then at 3 30 PM we have kyron's father
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Kane his stepmother and his little sister uh they go to meet the school bus well when they get there
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Chiron doesn't come off of the bus and the bus driver informed them that Kyron had not boarded the bus after school
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that day so then the bus driver was asked to call the school and ask where Kyron could be
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she informed the school she was informed by the school secretary that Chiron had
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not been in school since early that day and that he had been marked absent the driver she reports to the secretary that
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she did not have Chiron and therefore he was missing you know so we have the parents don't have him he's not on the
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bus and the school's saying that he's been absent since early that day right at 3 46 PM the skyline school secretary
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this is Susan Hall she called the 9-1-1 call center using a private phone number
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assigned to the Portland Public Schools district to report that Kyron was missing the 9-1-1 call center then
00:28:08
reported this information to the police at 4 33 that day officers from the Portland Police Bureau and the multiple
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County Sheriff's Office arrived simultaneously at the school and at kyron's home
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at 5 30 pm there is a rapid broadcast message from the Portland Public Schools this goes
00:28:33
out to alert families that there is a missing student the message is Kyron Horman did not arrive at home today it
00:28:41
was broadcast to the phones of parents across the school district so we have roughly about seven hours or so of kind
00:28:50
of confusion roughly about nine o'clock in the morning as the last report of anybody saying that they've seen him
00:28:57
that we know of and then by the time he's reported missing it's about seven hours later yes
00:29:03
at 7 pm a Multnomah County detective notifies the County's on-call coordinator for search and rescue
00:29:12
efforts to begin in a formal missing person search for Chiron now between seven o'clock and 7 15 the county public
00:29:21
information officer begins to return pages from members of the media in a range of to meet them at the school
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at sometime between 7 and 7 45 that evening Sheriff Dan Stanton calls the FBI to alert them regarding the child's
00:29:41
disappearance now I applaud this this move right here that the sheriff personally called the FBI you know you
00:29:48
and I when we were discussing a case that took place locally here the FBI got involved in that case and we learned
00:29:56
some things from that situation as told to us regarding the FBI and how they should be and when they can be and when
00:30:05
they can't be involved in an investigation and as far as what information is used at a later date
00:30:11
regarding their findings and we learned one thing from from that case was that if if they're involved from the
00:30:19
investigation immediately you can use anything that they they found and they will likely stay involved until the case
00:30:26
is closed why I also think it's just pushing your pride aside and saying hey look the important thing is that there's
00:30:32
a seven-year-old kid missing let's get all hands on deck yeah more more than often we're reporting on cases where
00:30:40
we're saying you know they were called in six months or a year after the case uh or we're sitting there going why
00:30:47
didn't they ever call the FBI we so we have we have one of those rare situations where we get to see the FBI
00:30:53
called immediately but we do have a lot of missing person cases a lot of missing child cases
00:31:00
actually in Oregon so this is something that they deal with probably more than a
00:31:06
lot of other states now shortly after 8 PM uh the first search teams arrive at the Skyline
00:31:13
Elementary School yeah at 8 15 PM we have a lieutenant Mary lindstrin uh she arrives at the school she meets with
00:31:24
those present at the school and then begins emailing a photo of Kyron to local television stations and uh local
00:31:32
newspapers at 8 25 PM the search and rescue coordinator uh he arrives on the scene
00:31:39
they have uh what they call Mountain Wave and emergency communications and search and rescue group that arrives on
00:31:48
the scene as well just before 10 pm at 10 40 PM officers at Skyline Elementary report that they have completed a search
00:31:56
of the Skyline Elementary School which includes all crawl spaces Storage storage areas classrooms and
00:32:05
outbuildings they have also searched the Chiron horman's home by this point at 10 44 this is this is interesting
00:32:14
here Captain a caller somebody calls into 9-1-1 and they're aware of the search they're aware that this kid is
00:32:21
missing you know we said that that uh that text blast went out to all the parents in the in the district yeah and
00:32:28
this 911 caller wants to make sure that officers have checked the train tunnel that is in the area near the school she
00:32:36
says that sometimes kids play in there and she just wanted to make sure sure that someone had checked that out okay
00:32:43
using that information they go and check the train tunnel isn't there also some woods behind the school as well yes this
00:32:51
is a rural area you know when we say Portland we think of a big city but I think this is out on the fringes uh you
00:32:58
know in the greater Portland area so yes there there would be Woods in this area
00:33:03
when we talked about having the seven hour timeline yeah or the the Gap basically but I don't really think that
00:33:10
that Gap is really that important I think it's more important to find out from the school when they noticed that
00:33:16
he was missing and was that in homeroom because if it was homeroom then we have like we said homeroom starts at 10 if
00:33:25
Chiron never gets into the home room now we have a 8 45 to you know 10 o'clock gaps about an hour and 15 minutes this
00:33:34
case is also difficult too because you know at some point they got to question these students but these
00:33:40
students are you know six seven eight years old yeah um well let's let's go through that so
00:33:46
okay so what do we end up learning about that day because by the end of Friday June 4th we have Chiron seven-year-old
00:33:54
Kyron who's reported missing the authorities in my opinion do a fantastic job of searching a good amount of area
00:34:01
uh covering both the school and chiron's home as well and unfortunately finding nothing not finding Chiron but also not
00:34:10
finding anything to lead them to believe they know where he could be um so let's let's go through what we've
00:34:17
learned about that day after the fact so at 8 45 A.M remember we have Terry Horman the stepmother she says she's
00:34:25
getting ready to leave the school she says that she watched Kyron walking toward his classroom and she then leaves
00:34:33
the school after watching him walk towards that classroom however here's the thing we don't know I cannot
00:34:41
honestly say that we know for certain exactly when he is first marked as absent for the day but what we can say
00:34:49
is we don't have anybody that says they ever saw him in his first class starting
00:34:55
at 10 A.M well yeah and the problem with this too is you look it's not out of the
00:35:00
question if you're dropping your kid off at school there's science fair going on
00:35:04
you take a picture of them at you know you probably help them with their project I mean let's get real most the
00:35:09
time your parents just do your project for you and he's seven um you know yeah it's these things can
00:35:16
be complicated to put together but they can be fun to work with together as a family yeah well he's you know he's a
00:35:22
very cute kid and uh you know has kind of a goofy little smile and and he's wearing his uh CSI t-shirt you know for
00:35:30
for the science fair so that's that's cool and but if we're to believe Terry the stepmother which believe her story
00:35:38
that she lets them out of the site and now we have a seven-year-old that's roaming around the science fair you know
00:35:45
area basically on chaperoned really I mean the rooms are chaperoned but the kid isn't so that's an hour and 15 minutes
00:35:54
of what could happen did he wander off was there uh somebody there to abduct him
00:36:03
well I think what we need to get away from is when was he marked absent because he's never marked as attending
00:36:09
so in my opinion that's kind of a dead end lead because that leads to too much of a gap too much of a window so let's
00:36:17
talk about eyewitness reports and statements we have multiple people multiple adults that report having seen
00:36:26
Chiron and Terry together at the science fair so we know that took place we know
00:36:31
we know that we have that picture as well I think that their statements fall into place with what Terry what the
00:36:40
stepmother said she left approximately 8 45 a.m that day we also have we have no
00:36:48
person we have no student we have no teacher in that first classroom that classroom that he is walking to that
00:36:56
that Terry says that he is feet from the door we have no person in that room that
00:37:02
was in that room stating that they saw Chiron in that room that day right during homeroom so like I said 8 45 to
00:37:08
10 o'clock that's our Gap no what I'm saying is if he was feet from that door when she turned her head and left
00:37:16
I'm I'm going off the assumption that he was walking as she said into his classroom getting ready to walk into his
00:37:23
classroom we don't have anybody that was in that classroom at 8 45 or 9 o'clock saying that he entered that classroom
00:37:31
so right I I get that but there's also a lot of commotion it's basically a uh open school and so maybe he walked in
00:37:42
maybe he walked out but what I'm saying that to me is the most important thing because we have an hour and 15 minute
00:37:47
Gap right uh we do have we do have eyewitnesses that say that they saw his book bag inside that classroom okay so
00:37:57
there's varying accounts of that that it was either placed on the coat rack you know sometimes they have those little
00:38:03
Cubbies along the the one wall and you could place your coat in your book bag and other things over there and then
00:38:10
there were reports that it was placed either on his chair or on his desk well then my question would be and I would
00:38:16
assume uh you know just having years of the stepdad role I mean if I was going to drop the kid off with a project we're
00:38:26
going to walk into the school we're going to go to your classroom first and drop off your book bag and then we're
00:38:31
gonna go set up your project correct I'm assuming that's what happened I don't think that that means Chiron had to have
00:38:37
entered that school room that class room after 8 45. we do have a situation that
00:38:45
takes place around 9 A.M this is later reported to police Chiron is reported seen by a student near the
00:38:54
South entrance of the school and he is seen alone what is the age of the student
00:39:01
um I don't know that they they might not they might not report it and a lot of these reports from the students they'd
00:39:07
never say the age and that's difficult because they could have been a six-year-old I actually believe that
00:39:12
there's probably a report somewhere that might name this boy or might give an age
00:39:17
on him and I say that because the reports I found on this said and we're not going to name him so I don't know
00:39:26
maybe maybe there is a report somewhere that reports his age this though is according to Dan Stanton who says that
00:39:33
this may be the last time that the boy was seen now later Multnomah County authorities would later Backtrack on
00:39:42
this statement and I think this is because of what you and I were kind of getting at
00:39:47
um this is from a statement from a little kid and it could be if it's one of the younger students it could be like
00:39:53
you said six seven eight years old um so we have to decide do we trust that information you know did this kid
00:40:01
actually see Chiron on that day at that time at that location I I'm assuming the
00:40:08
kid's not lying that they actually saw Chiron I'm also going to assume that it's on that day the issue is going to
00:40:14
be you know can this swallowed a bug the issue is going to be can this student even tell time right or
00:40:22
yeah or does he does he know exactly what time he thinks he saw Chiron correct um I do want to point out that
00:40:29
we he said that he saw the or I'm sorry I shouldn't say he the student says that
00:40:34
they saw Chiron near the South entrance of the school I do want to point out here that there are eight access points
00:40:42
to this school building I think the interesting thing to pull away from this is I understand that the sheriff's
00:40:49
department then backtracked on the statement or law enforcement backtracked on the statement but we have a student
00:40:56
claiming that they saw Chiron by himself on that day now if we assume that that students write that they that it was
00:41:04
that day and it was roughly around that time is in the morning we have reports from adults that Chiron
00:41:13
was there with the stepmom and probably at no point like especially when you go to drop off your kid
00:41:21
you just kind of wander around with your kid because you don't know where to go you don't know the school that well
00:41:26
right so so the fact that the kid did see Chiron alone I think that's evidence of something possibly it's possible but
00:41:34
here's my gut feeling and I think this is why this is my guess as to why authorities
00:41:40
would later Backtrack on that statement okay so they get this statement from this this small child who sees Chiron
00:41:47
Alone by himself at the South side entrance we don't know I mean he could be seven foot tall we don't know how
00:41:52
small he is so they they released this statement to the public and what I think we have here is they've
00:42:01
they're going to speak to teachers students they're going to speak to everybody involved and it's going to
00:42:06
take some time it's going to take days to accomplish that but you also you release this statement to the public
00:42:14
in hopes that somebody that it jogs someone's memory and they go you know what I was in the back of the school or
00:42:22
where you know I was near the South entrance or exit to this school and now that I think about it I think I saw him
00:42:29
there as well around that time yeah and you hope that somebody has witnessed the
00:42:33
same thing and comes forward I think why you Backtrack on that statement is because later by the time you've
00:42:39
interviewed everybody and you've questioned everybody and you've put together your timeline you have and
00:42:45
nobody comes forward you have no other person other than this child one particular child that says that they
00:42:52
saw Chiron and I think that that's why they Backtrack on the statement that they couldn't find anybody else to back
00:42:58
this up like you said it's a double-edged sword because you have this situation where you have the school
00:43:04
science fair going on yes it's a lot of commotion it's a lot of people moving around it's a lot of people in and out
00:43:09
of doors but at the same time it's also potential a lot of eyewitnesses in and out of doors and walking around and in
00:43:17
the same area right so chiron's gap of about an hour or so that bothers me but the other gap that we have in this story
00:43:24
is Terry's Gap I mean she is dropping the kid off so she's leaving the school she's in the school but she leaves the
00:43:31
school about 8 45 9 o'clock and then she there's no whereabouts of her till about
00:43:36
one or two well okay so let's go through that because she's extremely important as you point out she's the last person
00:43:44
that we think may have seen Chiron well she's the last parent of of his so we have the Stepmom her statements to the
00:43:54
police indicate that after she left the school at 8 45 a.m as she ran some errands uh this would take her to a
00:44:02
local grocery store this is the uh Fred Meyer store and she says that she ran these errands
00:44:09
until about 10 10 a.m because okay so let's let's go through this situation and we can back up some of this
00:44:18
she's actually spotted at this Fred Meyer store by someone else at 9 15 a.m okay okay and then she spotted at a
00:44:28
second Fred Meyer store at 9 45 a.m and these eyewitnesses do they see her with any children yes both times that she is
00:44:37
seen inside a Fred Meyer store she is spotted with her daughter so this is the situation the child is a toddler very
00:44:46
small at this time is suffering from some kind of earache so the stepmother Terry goes to the grocery store the
00:44:54
local grocery store in search of a specific medicine for the child at the first stop at the first time she goes to
00:45:01
Fred Meyer Grocery Store she does not find the medicine that she's looking for so this makes her go to a second
00:45:07
location where she does eventually find the exact medicine that she's looking for now one of these eyewitnesses says
00:45:15
that they found Terry's Behavior to be somewhat strange that day uh when she spotted her at the grocery store stating
00:45:24
that that Terry wasn't someone that would would you know often speak with her or carry on a conversation with her
00:45:31
right but for some reason on that day she went to the extent of not only talking with her for quite some time but
00:45:40
even whipping out her phone and showing the pictures that she had taken earlier that day at this at the science fair uh
00:45:47
to this person in the store how's that odd I I don't see it to be odd other than the fact that this
00:45:54
person's saying that she found the behavior to be odd so Terry after the two trips to the grocery store to get
00:46:01
this ear infection medicine she's going to head to dry cleaners the old local dry cleaner yes and at this stop this is
00:46:08
a very quick stop you run in and you get your dry cleaning you run back out she's
00:46:12
not spotted with her daughter on this stop but here again we have another eyewitness stating that they have seen
00:46:19
Terry around this time so we have her from the time she leaves the school at approximately 8 45 a.m to the time that
00:46:28
she's last seen over an hour later um we have eyewitness is backing up these statements then we have a
00:46:38
situation where we have Terry by her own words telling the police that between about 10 10 am
00:46:45
in 11 39 am she states that she drove her daughter around town this is an attempt to use
00:46:54
you know you try to sue the child some kids fall asleep very easily in a car this kid is suffering from an earache
00:47:02
and she's saying that you know what I drove the kid around for a while to try to calm the kid down let the medicine
00:47:08
take its effect and hopefully put the kid to sleep because everybody knows the best way to get
00:47:15
through a cold with the least amount of pain is to in discomfort is to try to sleep the thing off
00:47:21
yeah I I don't know much about driving kids around like little babies to get them to sleep I don't have no
00:47:28
information about that but it to me it seems like a hour and a half time it's kind of long it seems yeah like a you're
00:47:36
right an hour and a half 90 minutes of driving around hoping to soothe the child and but but let me know obviously
00:47:43
any Mothers or fathers out there I mean maybe that's not that weird I don't think that it's weird to drive them
00:47:49
around I think you're on to something here that maybe the length of time that we're talking about seems more strange
00:47:55
than the than the actual driving around I don't think driving around Parts weird
00:47:59
but you know parents reach out to us let us know of an hour and a half it's a little too ridiculous so then around
00:48:07
um just after 11 39 she is at a local gym um that morning and where she worked out
00:48:15
for approximately an hour okay so you said 11 39 so like we have a pretty like a time stamp like maybe she had a check
00:48:23
in or they had surveillance cameras so I mean it's a pretty hard 11 39. yes and you know usually with these gyms we all
00:48:33
know you have to check in you have a key card or something of that nature they're
00:48:36
usually they usually know when you're there um I also believe that this is the type
00:48:41
of gym where you can have them watch your younger child you know they may have a little play area or something of
00:48:48
that nature so you can work out uh even if you have a child with you so she's there for about an hour on the kids with
00:48:55
her yes um and then she is it says by 1 20 p.m she had arrived home back to Chiron in
00:49:06
the Horman home uh where she lived with her husband and how do we know that um well we have her husband uh at home
00:49:15
okay because he worked from home several times a week and we also have the situation where she is posting the
00:49:23
pictures on Facebook from her home computer right so we know she was physically there at this point
00:49:29
um like you said the husband Kane he sometimes worked from home it's my understanding that he worked
00:49:37
um a short day that day and had returned home and he was having lunch around the
00:49:43
time that she arrived at the home uh they had promised to uh take Kyron out for ice cream after school because he
00:49:52
did all this hard work on his project um kind of a reward one Summer's right around the corner so this is something
00:49:58
you kind of do as parents you know and so it's Friday you start the weekend off nice you know it's a good good thing
00:50:05
yeah so then at three around 3 30 p.m that day he the stepmother and their daughter walked down to the bus stop to
00:50:14
collect Chiron and hopes to go to get ice cream then it's noticed that he's he's been he's missing not only is he
00:50:22
missing he's been missing for quite some time in all hell breaks loose right my big question is what is the time stamp
00:50:28
of the dry cleaners you know we obviously have her in the supermarket about 9 15
00:50:37
to let's say 9 45 so we basically have 9 45 to um 11 39 that's the Gap we have but if we have the dry cleaning record
00:50:51
at at 10 o'clock or 10 15 then that shortens the gap of well and I think the Gap should be shortened
00:50:59
um and this is a good good thing you bring up here I don't have the time stamp for the receipt of the dry
00:51:06
cleaning nor do I have a time from the eyewitness that placed her there right um but what I do have is Terry's own
00:51:15
words stating that from 10 10 a.m until about 11 39 a.m when she arrives at the gym when we know she arrived at the gym
00:51:23
right right that she was just simply driving around and there's nobody there's no report of anybody disputing
00:51:29
anything before 10 10 a.m so it could be that that there's some report or somebody knows something that she was
00:51:37
spotted at 1005 or 100 8 or 9 right but we have an hour and a half Gap correct of driving around to soothe the young
00:51:45
toddler's earache all right so the day of The Disappearance where was his Mother where was chiron's Mother his
00:51:52
mother Desiree would have been in in the City of Medford which as we pointed out
00:51:57
is about it's about 275 miles away uh so about a four hour drive from the Portland area and his stepfather is the
00:52:07
one that's a detective same thing The Stepfather was in the City of Medford that day going about their regular
00:52:14
Friday daily lives so the day of disappearance we have uh two gaps we have a gap in the story well we actually
00:52:23
have three gaps we have a gap in chiron's uh timeline we have a gap in Terry the stepmom's timeline and there's
00:52:32
kind of a gap for me with the father's timeline as well yes because all we know about his
00:52:39
timeline is that uh he goes off to work he returns home and he then sees his his wife and plans to
00:52:49
go to the the school the bus stop to pick up his son yeah and I would argue that if the FBI got involved right away
00:52:56
they probably have some activity on the home computer I don't know if you can prove who was making that activity so I
00:53:04
just want to leave that as a question mark this is just part one of a four-part series yes and we got a lot
00:53:11
more to get to with this a lot of questionable Behavior through the next few days and weeks coming up but we also
00:53:18
have a search that's really kicking off and we'll pick up there on tomorrow's show
00:53:26
foreign [Music] thank you so much for listening thanks for telling a friend thank you for
00:53:37
sharing this stuff on social media one of the main things is just to keep these cases and the public Spotlight so thank
00:53:43
you so much we're going to get into the search for Kyron Horman in tomorrow's episode until then be good be kind and
00:53:50
don't litter foreign [Applause] [Music] [Applause]