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n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who will be gifting at least one lucky individual an
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Urban Sombrero for Christmas this year here is the captain some say I have a plethora of sombreros it's good to be
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featuring holiday cheer by the fine folks at Shiner Shiner holiday cheer is one of my favorite holiday beers cheer
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up on the mailing list so you can get some free promo codes that's enough of the business all right everybody gather
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around grab a chair grab grab a beer let's talk some true crime someone killed this six-year-old
00:03:43
child some people don't think it's ever going to be solved people hated the Roses we have a kidnap it we were just a
00:03:51
regular family we have a kidnapping J Ramsey was in child due to pants was there an intruder or was the
00:04:02
family invol someone killed his 6-year-old child people hated the real you have a
00:04:11
kidnapping I did not kill my daughter John Benet we have a kidnapping there is evidence of an
00:04:21
intruder I say this over and over and over again we have a kidnapping someone killed his 6-year-old
00:04:29
child people hated the [Music] real about a week ago a documentary docu series came out that a lot of people
00:04:43
were talking about it's got the the people in a wh trying to figure out what happened to poor John Benet Ramsay many
00:04:53
many years ago I believe we're at uh 27 28 years now almost for this unsolved Cold Case and I'm calling it a cold case
00:05:03
because I don't know how much activity is actually happening outside of the media on this case and I think that's
00:05:09
fair to speculate because in this docu series it didn't seem like Boulder Police wanted to be a part of of the
00:05:17
series or at least add a comment or or or get involved so the docu series was called Cold Case who killed John Benet
00:05:25
Ramsay it's on Netflix it's a three-part series it was a quick watch for me just because
00:05:32
I'm fascinated by the case it's got a lot of people talking on social media again and a lot of people asking
00:05:39
questions a lot of new observations let's say from certain people that have called some things into question so we
00:05:47
wanted to Circle back as our longtime listeners know we have discussed this case at length on several opportunities
00:05:56
over the years and in fact last year we released many episodes about this case started off with a six-part series
00:06:04
several years ago so this is a case that we will likely continue to revisit periodically and explore it when there
00:06:12
is new information or old information that maybe needs to be rehashed and that's what I think we got here from
00:06:20
this docu series that came out just a little over a week ago yeah and mixed reviews on this it's been number one on
00:06:28
iTunes pretty much all over the world so a lot of people watching it but mixed reviews some people think it's just
00:06:35
rehashed old information nothing new it's a steamy pile of dog [ __ ] and other people thought it was very fascinating
00:06:43
and what the media is telling us is there's a whole new generation Our Generation looks at cases like the OJ
00:06:50
Simpson case or the Menendez brothers or John Benet Ramsay has like these are cases you should know or west Memphis 3
00:06:59
everybody should know about these cases but that's our generation the new generation is discovering this John Ben
00:07:06
Ramsey case pretty much for the first time that's fascinating to me Captain because when we were at crime con
00:07:12
earlier this year late May early June John Ramsay was present there were people there talking openly about the
00:07:22
Jean Benet Ramsey case and the thing that I thought was really interesting I met some folks that were pretty hardcore
00:07:30
into True Crime listening to podcast watching everything they can on TV they had Tagalongs right we know that a lot
00:07:38
of times a husband or boyfriend will tag along that's typically the setup th those are my favorite people yes the
00:07:46
ones that come up and go my my wife loves you I I don't know who you are and I'm like hey let's have a let's have a
00:07:52
beer later the guys that go I was just in charge of the driving portion of this trip um but they have a great time and
00:08:01
so I met several people that are somewhat new to True Crime and let's say about 10 years younger than us roughly I
00:08:10
was really shocked and surprised at how little they knew about the John B Ramsey
00:08:16
case and it was interesting to me to have these conversations with those individuals to see how they're kind of
00:08:25
working through it in their mind and and the toil that they have to do because this is a case with so many obstacles so
00:08:34
many hurdles to clear it's almost mindboggling and to see them trying to work through it in their mind during
00:08:40
conversation we're having and I'm not trying to Enlighten them as to my opinions or things that I've researched
00:08:48
over the years on this case or or trying to educate them on some of the details no I'm simply trying to take in from
00:08:56
them what their observations were on items and particulars that they learned throughout the course of their visit at
00:09:03
crime con and to see that they they're they're for the first time forming an opinion on what they think happened yeah
00:09:12
why they think it happened so very intriguing to meet people that are somewhat new to this case it's it's kind
00:09:19
of like we covered Robert Juan last week in the week before if you are outside we
00:09:26
said this then if you are outside of that Washington DC Maryland area it some people if you go further west are not so
00:09:35
aware of that case and it's one of those cases that immediately you start to hear
00:09:40
the details of that case and you go my God why have I not heard about this before and if you have heard of the case
00:09:49
and know some of the details you go yeah I'm ready to buckle up one more time and
00:09:55
revisit this case because it's so intriguing and there's so many avenues that you could go down with that case
00:10:03
and and in ways it's strange we didn't plan this because we we didn't know we knew this docu series was coming out and
00:10:11
I think some friends of mine let me know when they believe the release date was but what we're seeing now Captain with
00:10:18
some of the streaming services is they're not so amped up to to Really hype up and advertise and market a True
00:10:28
Crime Story that they're about to release because it's almost like they're afraid somebody else is going to get the
00:10:33
jump on them if somebody else is working on one so we're seeing this shift where
00:10:39
the the streaming services aren't so openly advertising for these documentaries and docu series way down
00:10:47
the line it's only up until you get close here so with this one coming out real quick and we'll jump into this
00:10:54
because we got a lot that I want to dig through and tear through here because there's so much meat on the bone but
00:11:01
just real quick want to get your opinion on the give give us your ciso and Ebert
00:11:07
as it would be on the docu series well the problem I have with this case is there's a meme everybody's seen it it's
00:11:15
a lady in her bed her face is glowing because of the screen on her cell phone and it's and it says something like this
00:11:25
is me at 3:00 a.m. Googling who killed John Benet Ramsay this is one of those cases for me so any documentary or book
00:11:35
or if I'm on YouTube YouTube loves to suggest random people's random thoughts about this case and I will watch every
00:11:44
single video and that's one of the reasons that this case bothers me and and once it's solved if it ever is
00:11:55
solved at least I can stop that part of my life so it's it's definitely a case that I will dive into any new
00:12:03
information and I agree with a lot of people a lot of this documentary is rehash garbage or information you've
00:12:11
heard before a hot steamy pile of [ __ ] if you will but you have to keep in mind
00:12:18
some people are coming to this case for the first time so you have to go over those details we're not going to go over
00:12:25
all those details in this episode I would give it a two thumbs up I've watched it uh twice now and then I've
00:12:32
watched a ton of videos of people dissecting different scenes and different comments made by John Ramsey
00:12:40
or other individuals in this documentary but I thought it was easy watch I hate when true crime documentaries are six to
00:12:49
eight parts and by the seventh part or eighth part you're like why was this seven or eight parts I think this one
00:12:57
fits nicely with some the old information and some of the new information into a three-part series and
00:13:04
look this was directed by one of True Crime docs OG's right this is half the team that
00:13:13
did Paradise Lost yes and so I'm not going to refer to it as a steamy pile of [ __ ] because I don't
00:13:22
think anybody will care to listen to the remainder of our episode on it I I actually thought it was very good
00:13:28
considering I knew walking into it with with a lot of these cases that are Revisited time
00:13:34
and time again and we we talked about how old this Cas is it's been you know all these years since the poor girl was
00:13:42
killed inside of her home I know with some of these cases particularly because of what we do and and our coverage on
00:13:50
this exact case right here that I've learned to not walk into these going well I'm expecting to learn a whole lot
00:13:59
of new information right and if I can if I can clear that hurdle then I can just
00:14:05
sit back as a viewer and try to absorb it and take it all in and taking it all in I actually thought it was done very
00:14:13
well I thought it the the the look of it the flow of it I thought was very good and you talked about we're we're going
00:14:22
to do this exercise where we we talk through some of the questions that we've seen online and on social and some of
00:14:30
the observations and we've had people ask us hey you guys have done plenty of coverage on this case can you can you
00:14:37
talk about some of these things so I'm excited to jump into this exercise but you mentioned we may not be getting into
00:14:44
all the details and that's for good reason we could spend all of 2025 once a week talking about this case
00:14:54
and probably leave a few things out 52 weeks of coverage and probably leave a few things out I part of me thinks that
00:15:01
the case has gotten too big that a lot of the a lot of the important stuff might be getting lost because it's
00:15:09
become so expansive but if you're new to our show or tuning in maybe even for just the first time if you want to know
00:15:18
more about our coverage if you want to learn the details and the particulars of this case or here our side of it we
00:15:24
started covering this case in 2019 leading up to Christmas we did six episodes Little Miss Christmas we have a
00:15:32
kidnapping hurry please we have your daughter the autopsy Santa Claus the family those were the six episodes that
00:15:41
we did in December of 2019 in 2023 just after Thanksgiving we did additional coverage looking at it
00:15:51
from a different angle where we brought in experts to talk to we did two episodes called the m detective that
00:16:00
came out in November of 2023 and then in December we did two episodes called I killed her one episode
00:16:08
called presumed guilty and then three episodes titled poems and pornography so if you want more information from the
00:16:16
garage I direct you there now one of the first things that was discussed in this
00:16:22
case after the documentary came out was a lot of people were very surprised about about the layout of the Ramsay's
00:16:31
home the complexity of the layout of that house and Not only was it a very large house but the layout is very
00:16:41
unique it's quite chopped up and one thing that police and the detectives will tell us here about this particular
00:16:51
murder is that the complexity and the layout the unique layout of the ramsy home would make it very difficult for
00:17:01
the Intruder Theory to work it it it complicates the Intruder Theory yeah I think this is a point that doesn't go
00:17:11
either way this could point to somebody in the family being involved this could also point to an intruder because you
00:17:19
could also make some argument if they were trying to get out of the house and then the Intruder was confused that
00:17:26
maybe that's why the murder took place there and and they didn't follow through with the kidnapping so I I don't think
00:17:34
this points either way but I think when you see this footage and kind of like what you're saying this case has got so
00:17:42
big that when there are new documentaries or new books what you're basically doing is getting extra details
00:17:51
about the details we already know so we know that the house is large we know that it's complex but when you see them
00:17:57
going through the there's this law enforcement footage where they're going through the kitchen and they have to go
00:18:03
down another level to like the pantry area and then they go down another level and now they're in the basement you
00:18:10
start seeing pretty quickly how confusing this place would be to navigate but you can also see the
00:18:18
separation and so if you're one to believe the Intruder Theory you go well Intruder wouldn't be that scared to
00:18:27
enter a place like this because there's so many places to hide there's so many places to go there's so many places to
00:18:33
take a victim yeah so I I worked building security as a Security administrator for a high-rise property a
00:18:39
large property in downtown Columbus for over three years and one thing that you do is you try to reverse engineer your
00:18:47
property right you you try to look at it not from how do I protect the property you start looking at it as how can I how
00:18:54
would I as a bad guy get into this property what how what's the compromises in our security here and from if I go
00:19:05
that angle and look at this house boy I can't wait to get in there that I'm telling you man this this house is
00:19:13
perfect for breaking into it now breaking into it and committing a murder breaking into it and taking a child for
00:19:19
ransom that's a whole different can of worms but let's consider this okay what are the complexities because what we are
00:19:27
told here is that the complexity of this house actually would point to that someone within the home killed the girl
00:19:37
that there was not an intruder and that is that is what has been outright said by police at times and then also the P
00:19:45
the picture that they like to paint for us the seed that is planted for us they don't directly say it but they they hint
00:19:52
at it so the complexities is it's like a 6500 square foot home that is gigantic the thing here too is I you know homes
00:20:04
that have been built onto and that's is the case here this is a what's referred to as a tutor home tutor style home it
00:20:12
was eventually added on to when I look at homes that have been added on to if they added a wing here or a room there
00:20:19
or changed a garage into something and then added a garage over here to me I always I always liken that to like a a
00:20:27
quilt rather than a blanket right like a blanket looks like one complete piece of
00:20:33
work where with a quilt you can kind of see how they added on it's it's even obvious how they add it on as you go but
00:20:41
6,500 square feet that is complicated and it's it's cut up right this house is cut up on every
00:20:49
floor but one thing we need to keep in mind here is if you're telling me that the
00:20:56
home is complicated and that points to to the ramsy as being guilty who's to say that the Intruder isn't somebody
00:21:04
that had been in the home before who's to say that the Intruder didn't have some prior knowledge of the house before
00:21:10
going into the house whether the Intruder had prior knowledge or not what I can see from the street view is I can
00:21:19
see that it's surrounded by a large fence that's problematic for my operation but what I can see immediately
00:21:27
is I want to get to the backyard and I know that I have an Alleyway I know that if I can get to that backyard I have
00:21:35
some things working on my side as the potential Intruder or Intruders so if you go down to the one thing that's
00:21:43
complicated for an intruder that that has no prior knowledge of the home that hasn't been into the home
00:21:48
before or had discussions with people that have been in the home before from the street view Captain I cannot tell
00:21:56
that this home has a basement I would assume that it did I am looking at the home and I believe there's a possible
00:22:03
third floor but I can't confirm that by the street view but I don't think it would be that hard for any individual to
00:22:10
go inside a house even if it's a large house and within you know 10 minutes 20 minutes of touring the house by yourself
00:22:19
you're going to kind of get a lay of the land you're going to have an understanding of the house pretty
00:22:24
quickly I wouldn't say within minutes I mean may maybe for a smarter person than
00:22:29
I but I this is where I do agree with the Boulder police detectives the every floor is cut up so much there's a
00:22:36
basement there's a ground level second floor third third level the parents are sleeping on the third floor or at least
00:22:43
we are told that's where what is going on that night the problem becomes here if you go to the basement it's cut up
00:22:51
into one 2 3 four five five rooms plus two crawl space plus 1 2 3 4 five five closets and a staircase now where it
00:23:06
gets even more complicated is when you go to the ground level the second floor and the third floor there's multiple
00:23:13
staircases inside this home that is different from many homes so when you get to the ground level you have one
00:23:23
staircase that goes to the second floor you have one staircase that goes to the second and then the third floor so
00:23:32
meaning if you are on the second floor you can't take both staircases to get to the third floor and to the first floor
00:23:40
there's one staircase that only goes from floor one to two and there's one staircase that only goes from floors two
00:23:47
to three MH so the staircases in part are complicated but if I'm looking to compromise the security of this home the
00:23:57
broken window that is discussed in the documentary and has been discussed at length on on many
00:24:04
anytime this case is talked about the broken window at the rear of the home that is exactly where I would break into
00:24:12
this house so you have in the basement you have you have seven windows that you could potentially access this home if
00:24:21
you are out there look order a security system from Simply safe and secure your home okay you can do that yourself and
00:24:31
it's the it's in my opinion my humble garage opinion the best security system out there now other security systems a
00:24:38
lot of them are going to send a person out to your house and they're going to sell you equipment they're going to tell
00:24:45
you what you should be concerned about Mr civilian who who you don't know anything when they're trying to sell you
00:24:52
something what they're going to point out to you is that you really want to secure your master bedroom why because
00:24:59
that's where the criminals go because it's the the statistics are like 70 to 75% of the values inside of a home are
00:25:07
stored in the master bedroom so that's where they want to get to so especially if you have a ranch home you really want
00:25:14
to secure that master bedroom so I've had multiple security systems in my homes throughout the years if you can
00:25:23
afford one I I I don't see why anybody wouldn't have one it seems silly not to have one I've told those the security
00:25:30
persons that you know they they say they're experts whatever I great that's that's cool you're an expert at security
00:25:37
systems for single family homes I was a Security administrator for a 28 story multi-million dollar building and
00:25:44
property for three years you access points is all you give a godamn about the access points the easiest access
00:25:52
points to almost any home is basement windows you break them they're usually pretty thin glass and you work your way
00:26:00
in you just slide right in you know why because when you leave the home guess where you're not leaving through the
00:26:07
basement window there are doors that you're going to leave through on the ground level because that you you're
00:26:13
looking to do a smash and grab and get the heck out of there now what's interesting to me here is if there were
00:26:20
an intruder there there are so many doors and windows in this home you could say that this guy this person or persons
00:26:27
could have in anywhere but what we do know is that there was a broken window there was an open window and then later
00:26:35
L smid who works the case says this grate was lifted up and the person climbed right down through the grate and
00:26:43
there were three Windows right there they went in the middle window and and and to be clear L smid is actually
00:26:50
saying he's not being that definitive about it he's he's simply saying he believes the Intruder either entered
00:26:57
through that window or left through that window or both that window I tell you is
00:27:04
one of the four if you if you just can't walk you're not going to go in the front
00:27:09
of this house why that's the street view that's that's where you're going to be seen these guys don't want to be seen
00:27:15
you're go in through the back and the best points of entry for the back of the home are these four windows at the back
00:27:23
of the home and one of them we do know was found broken and over open according to John Ramsey which I find that
00:27:32
statement to be very interesting we talked about that in our previous coverage we we'll Circle back to the
00:27:38
window we because we could spend a lot of time on the window I also we don't have to take John Ramsay's word for it
00:27:42
there was other eyewitnesses that saw the broken and open window and also statements from law enforcement yes and
00:27:49
the other thing here too is to point out some other access points on the main floor the ground level you have one two
00:27:59
three four five six you have six doors that lead to the yard to the outside of the home yeah so any of those could have
00:28:09
been unlocked and we also have I think it's not that hard to gain access there was uh a second level balcony to John
00:28:19
Bonet wind or two John Bonet room and then there was also a a bigger balcony that would would have led you into the
00:28:27
common area of the second floor yeah so the captain's correct there's two balconies one of them is a small balcony
00:28:34
which would lead directly to John's bedroom the other balcony is quite large and would lead you into a child's
00:28:41
playroom which is separates for without going into the complexity of the second level the child's playroom separates
00:28:51
burk's room from John benet's room that large balcony you can access both the children's playroom and burk's bedroom
00:28:59
now if you are entering this home with the purpose of kidnapping John Benet or doing something to her you are going to
00:29:07
want to avoid that large balcony if you have any prior knowledge of the home why
00:29:12
because your target is nowhere near this large balcony and you're closer to the street view and you are directly below
00:29:23
John and paty Ramsay's bedroom at this point if you don't want to be heard if you don't want to disturb and wake the
00:29:29
parents you are going to avoid the large balcony if you have knowledge of this home so I agree the the and it it's it's
00:29:40
simply there is no right or wrong here this is just a matter of opinion I agree that the complexity of the house that it
00:29:47
is complicated that it is unique that it is large that it would be very confusing
00:29:52
to maneuver in the dark the problem being that it directly points toward the ramsy being involved is a that doesn't
00:30:00
account for people that have prior knowledge to the home that have been in the home before mind you they had PE
00:30:04
people that work for them they had a lot of contractors that were in and out over
00:30:08
their time there and they had a lot of guests they they threw parties large Christmas party they had decorators in
00:30:16
and out of there people interior decorators decorators for these parties and Caterers and then on top of that
00:30:23
doesn't account for something that has always been a a speculation on this case the the ramies were gone for several
00:30:31
hours before returning home that night if the Intruder entered the home while they were gone the Intruder may have
00:30:39
time to educate themselves as to the layout of the house to walk the house to take a look at what is my route from her
00:30:48
bedroom to the basement or my route from her bedroom to one of these six doors on
00:30:55
the ground level to get the hell out of here so I don't think that I don't think
00:30:59
that this points directly either way I don't think you can look at this one aspect and go okay well it had to be the
00:31:18
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mates cheers to you Colonel tall canes in the air T can in the air indeed now expanding on the home a little bit one
00:36:47
thing we saw in the documentary was a lot of footage of camera footage of the home immediately after the crime took
00:36:55
place which shows a very messy home it shows many rooms were in disarray one interesting aspect to consider here is
00:37:03
this is going to make searching the home and collecting evidence quite difficult
00:37:08
now keep in mind it's Christmas time you have two small children in the home I would expect to find the Home in
00:37:15
disarray yeah I think some of the rooms were organized and and to put on a a show for people and then I think there's
00:37:24
other rooms like when they get into the basement you can see that these rooms have not been clean or organized for a
00:37:31
long time again this is what makes it hard because if you're going through the house and law enforcement is telling you
00:37:39
which was a mistake to tell the family go through the house let's let us know if there's anything out of order if
00:37:47
there's something that's there that shouldn't be there or something that's missing well when your house is a mess
00:37:54
it's hard to know what should be there and what shouldn't be there and so there's a lot of arguments with John
00:38:02
Ramsay's statements about this suitcase and it being under the window that he says well that shouldn't
00:38:09
have been there I just question do did they know what should have been there and what shouldn't have been there the
00:38:17
other problem is collecting evidence and there's a lot of people that claim there
00:38:22
is no evidence of an intruder well again if if you have something that was left by the Intruder
00:38:31
but we don't have a clear understanding of where that item came from and and and
00:38:36
this is a clear understanding of the people that lived in the house then this is going to make it way more complicated
00:38:42
for law enfor the interesting thing here and this is something that's been talked
00:38:46
about for many many years is it also makes it difficult to figure out what items belong to the Rams and what didn't
00:38:56
because it didn't seem like like with some items in particular if they they seem a bit clueless if that item was
00:39:04
something that belong to them or not and I'm with you on the suitcase it's like okay so the suitcase is not where it
00:39:13
should be but that's the kids like play area for a lack of better term did the kids play with that suitcase and move it
00:39:23
right you know we I've seen small children play with empty boxes so anything is a toy when you're at a at a
00:39:30
certain age and you have a a designated play area so well and there was an interview with John Ramsey where he was
00:39:36
saying looking back on this 27 years later he he's not even he doesn't he isn't confident that
00:39:45
that's even their suitcase so and some people go what do you mean you're not confident about this
00:39:52
well you have to remember one his age he's in his 80s and it was 27 years ago and I think we have this belief that
00:40:01
because his child was murdered that he would know every single detail and that he would have read every single book and
00:40:09
that's just not true and so there's probably some armchair detectives out there that have a better knowledge and
00:40:18
better understanding of the details in this case than John Ramsey himself but he might have been listening to our
00:40:25
podcast CU I think both both of us lean towards the idea if there was an intruder that the Intruder entered the
00:40:32
house when they're away at the dinner party and and John says that in this documentary so I thought that was an
00:40:39
interesting point that that he made during this cold case well and I mean but it's also not a statement that he
00:40:46
hasn't said before i' I found at least one statement from 2020 where he said the same thing and I'm assuming that he
00:40:53
has said that before and it's gotten to the point here Captain where I've reviewed and read so many books on the
00:40:59
case I'm I I have a hard time placing what information came from from which book but yeah he's he said this before
00:41:08
but with in regard to the suitcase think about it in this way what did he say about the window oh I broke it in the
00:41:15
summertime so I could get into the home I had locked myself out I I broke that window and I climbed in I thought it was
00:41:22
fixed but maybe I was wrong so we're talking about something was broken several months earlier and he's not even
00:41:30
clear if it was fixed or not so why the hell would he know where the hell suitcase is supposed to be and I don't
00:41:35
understand why we don't have a clear answer on that if I was law enforcement my first thing would look this is a busy
00:41:41
man this is a big house they had several people that did work for the house let's
00:41:48
figure out if the window was fixed or not because if the window was fixed and now it's broken well that's evident
00:41:57
of an intruder and can I point to it this way we talked about this in our initial coverage in
00:42:03
2019 that statement by John Ramsey has always I've always found it to be intriguing because he he's an he's an
00:42:11
intelligent guy right here you have a situation where police are looking at you and they're they're kind of casting
00:42:19
suspicion on you and and you have this opportunity with this broken window that's open and his response is
00:42:28
I thought we fixed it but maybe I'm wrong I'm the one that broke into that window in the summertime right he had an
00:42:34
opportunity there if he was trying to cover something up to say well guys come on look look at this
00:42:42
broken window of course we know what's going no he doesn't say that he's like I don't you know I'm pretty sure we fix
00:42:48
that window and I think that's evidence that somebody could point to the fact that John Ramsey wasn't trying to cover
00:42:56
something up but a couple things that were found in the the home there was a rope that was found in
00:43:02
the spare bedroom now we don't know where that rope came from now a lot of people go
00:43:09
well rope found in a spare bedroom that that's evidence of an intruder also what was happening at the
00:43:17
time was there was a lot of decorations Christmas decorations to this house so then that makes me wonder
00:43:25
was there somebody that was paid to set up these decorations and was this an item that
00:43:31
they were going to use for decorations and they just left it in the spare bedroom cuz like we said the house is
00:43:38
big it's complex did somebody just leave it behind the ramsy say we don't know where this rope came from but again how
00:43:44
many people were working in your house what items were brought into your house uh but we do know that the paintbrush
00:43:52
was found in the home and then we have a baseball bat that was found in the backyard and then we have a Mag
00:43:58
flashlight that was found in the house but when people talk about well the bat might have been used because because we
00:44:06
know that she that jamban had blunt force trauma to her head so is is it caused by this bat or was it caused by
00:44:15
this Mag flashlight neither one of those had any evidence that they were used in
00:44:21
the crime they found none of John Ben's blood on those items I believe as what what we're seeing here um so to be I
00:44:31
want to be perfectly honest we're not going I'm not going to have some definitive answers on some of these
00:44:35
items because it's been reported differently and and frankly I think reported by some what I believe to be
00:44:42
pretty good sources here as for the flashlight there are sources that state that that flashlight belonged to the
00:44:50
ramies and it appears to be out of place because it was found in the kitchen correct yes other sources State the
00:44:59
flashlight did not belong to the Ramsay therefore if you are a a big fan of transfer Theory as I am then that is
00:45:07
suggestive that somebody left something in the home likely without knowing or because they had to flee the home and
00:45:16
couldn't retrieve it and the same would go for the Rope the Rope is is very intriguing because it seems like that's
00:45:23
the one item that all sources agree that the ramsy are saying that rope is not ours at least there appears to be some
00:45:31
confirmation of that I'm not going to say that the the Boulder police detectives are confirming that but I
00:45:36
I'll say that at least multiple sources are confirming that that rope did not belong to them could it have been left
00:45:44
by decorators or somebody else contractor Poss possible the bat same as the damn flashlight you go to multiple
00:45:52
sources different books different news outlets and it's all over the shop that bat belonged to the Ramsay didn't belong
00:46:01
to the ramies or they don't that it's uncertain who it belonged to and at least one other source I found was that
00:46:10
Lou Smith in his investigation was very intrigued by the bat found in the backyard of the Ramsey
00:46:17
home also a bat that was found by police shortly after the crime in a neighboring
00:46:25
backyard could that bat have just simply belonged to the neighbors possibly but that bat as far
00:46:32
as I understand in the neighbor yard is same as the bat found in the Ramsay's backyard unconfirmed of who exactly it
00:46:41
belonged to other item would be black duct tape that was used well let me let me address the paintbrush because it
00:46:50
it's my understanding that the paintbrush belonged or is believed to have come from Psy's paint
00:46:57
yeah we know we know that that item was found in the house yes and so but but that paintbrush that was used on John B
00:47:07
was believed and I haven't found one source to say otherwise that that paintbrush didn't belong to the Ramsay
00:47:15
right again that was an item that was found in the house so we have this paintbrush that they're
00:47:23
using to create a gat they use this special type of cord that cord was not found we didn't find a spool of that
00:47:32
cord somewhere else in the house and then black and to be clear the cord is different than the Rope just for persons
00:47:39
new right so the cord used for the strangulation we don't have a a bundle of it somewhere else in the house so we
00:47:48
we believe that cord came from outside the house then we have this BL black duct tape that was found across her
00:47:56
mouth again this is a item that we we don't have a a roll of black duct tape somewhere and this is what kind of drove
00:48:05
me nuts just a little bit they keep showing this duct tape you have a whole department when you're creating this
00:48:13
documentary to to gather up this evidence that you want to show the world it's not that hard to find black duct
00:48:22
tape just make it black duct tape because even just those little missed details somebody's going to say oh well
00:48:32
everybody has duct tape in their house maybe and maybe it's a very common item found but you're more likely to find
00:48:40
regular silver duct tape than you are black duct tape so black duct tape and the cord use and the strangulation both
00:48:48
of those items we can't say came from the house so that would be some evidence that there was possibly an rer yes and
00:48:57
keep in mind with the I believe it was with the duct tape that they had found a receipt a cash receipt from a local
00:49:07
hardware store that doesn't Define the purchase that was made so they don't know what
00:49:14
item was purchased but the the price of of Whatever item was purchased from that
00:49:21
hardware store in December leading up to the murder was the same price as uh duct tape at that store so that that
00:49:32
could and and when I say a purchase it was a purchase made by the ramies well one could make an argument that there
00:49:40
was black duct tape in the house and somebody used it and then took the the rest of the role with them you could
00:49:47
also make the same argument about the cord they cut a cord the remaining cord um that cord was found in the house the
00:49:56
intruder used it and then took the remaining cord with him that that those are all possibilities yeah that took
00:50:03
took something that belonged to the Ramsay or brought something with them to the scene we've spent a good deal of
00:50:11
time on the ransom letter on this show over the years we've even Revisited The Ransom letter on at least one occasion
00:50:19
on off the Record but one thing that is brought up time and time and time again is in in this docu series we have FBI
00:50:31
agent Ron Walker and and he's not this is not where this starts this started with the detectives the Boulder police
00:50:39
detectives but in the docu series we have FBI agent Ron Walker stating that Ransom notes are typically short that's
00:50:47
why they're typically referred to as a ransom note because notes are short this I would call Ransom letter because it's
00:50:54
three pages long they are telling us or at least planting the seed that this is suggestive of somebody who does not who
00:51:04
is not committed this type of crime before it's showing a level of inexperience and also a Le a level of
00:51:12
window dressing if you will smoking mirrors paint paint the picture that there was an intruder that this Ransom
00:51:20
let that that somebody did take the girl or attempted to take the girl and was seeking a
00:51:24
ransom but the L of the letter is indicative that the ramies are guilty and manufactured the letter yeah so I
00:51:32
think the claim is that this this is a bogus letter that there was no intention for a kidnapping so you could go well
00:51:41
this is the Ramsay's staging this whole kidnapping scenario you could also make an argument that after the Intruder
00:51:50
killed John Benet that he wrote this Ransom note to throw off law enforcement at the end of the day they think this
00:52:00
this this Ransom note is bogus my question would be okay if they're typically shorter do we have a
00:52:09
percentage do we have a percentage of Ransom notes that are longer and and what's the percentage because to me you
00:52:17
have to look at evidence and go is this evidence of fact or is this evidence of just possibility and and so to me this
00:52:28
is just evidence of possibility this possibly means that the note is completely bogus but in the documentary we find
00:52:39
that John Ramsay hands two notepads to law enforcement to initially right away hey we have this Ransom note we want
00:52:51
copies of your handwriting we need handwriting samples from from you and from your wife so John Ramsey goes and
00:52:59
finds two pads of paper and he takes those and he gives those to law enforcement so my question is if John
00:53:06
Ramsey was trying to cover this up and we believe one of the notepads he gave to law enforcement is the notepad that
00:53:14
the ransom notes come from if he knew that paty wrote The Ransom notes on that pad of paper why
00:53:22
would he hand that pad of paper to law enforcement it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and then this whole idea
00:53:28
that there's earlier drafts because they find on the top of one page of the notepad Mr and Mrs line again maybe this
00:53:39
is evidence to point to the possibility that somebody was that somebody had a draft a earlier draft of
00:53:48
the ransom note and they started over again but Mr and Mrs line doesn't tell me anything now if it was Mr and Mrs r
00:53:56
I'd go okay that's more evidence of that's a possibility but again I I I just think again you have to look at
00:54:04
this evidence and go is this evidence of fact or or is this just evidence of uh possibility and that that's exactly
00:54:12
right you you nailed it there because the claim is that this is the the the first draft right the person
00:54:19
sat down and and I'm I'll back up the the bust a little bit here because I if it if the Intruder Theory works if
00:54:26
that's if that's the solution to this I believe that like John Ramsey said and like some others have said before us
00:54:35
that the Intruder went into that home before while they were gone at at the dinner party that night and had ample
00:54:43
time inside the home alone or with whoever was assisting in this uh mess therefore I I believe if the Intruder
00:54:54
Theory works that the letter was drafted before the abduction attempt or and murder if if in fact it truly was going
00:55:05
to be an abduction attempt you ask what percentage reviewing a lot of cases I've
00:55:11
never seen a ransom let's even go to this to the extent to say Ransom letter I've never
00:55:17
seen a ransom letter more than one page most of the time they're they're three sentences four sentences they're very
00:55:25
short so this is abnormal I would call that abnormal but I do want to point out this Boulder Police openly say so you
00:55:36
have on record on camera on the docu series that we're discussing today Boulder law enforcement stating I don't
00:55:46
believe that we've ever had a kidnapping for ransom in this city before in the entirety time that this city has existed
00:55:53
we've never had a kidnapping for ransom that this individual that this agency is
00:55:59
aware of but then you're going to tell me that the letter doesn't fit because it doesn't look like other kidnapping
00:56:08
Ransom letters you just told me a second ago that you've never had a crime like this in your city not saying that you
00:56:15
wouldn't know what those look like or can't compare it or reach out to other agencies what I'm saying is this
00:56:23
regardless it if it were to be a kidnapping for ransom or or painted to be that way by somebody other than the
00:56:31
Ramsay yeah you are openly saying you've never had a crime like this so don't try
00:56:36
to to wedge it into a little cookie cutter business of what it's supposed to look like you've just told me this case
00:56:45
is unique I would expect if this case is unique that there are unique aspects and
00:56:51
evidence in this case I can only speculate what I think I would do if I was law enforcement but there is a thing
00:56:59
called Hold Back information and this Ransom note to me is holdback information this note would have never
00:57:06
been leaked I would never have anybody in the public it'd be 27 years later and people would be going there's a ransom
00:57:14
note or letter and maybe law enforcement says well it's a little bit longer than
00:57:20
a normal Ransom note but 27 years later the public would still be wondering what
00:57:28
that note said because this is not something I would have released to the public almost six
00:57:34
years and in the deli case police gave no indication that there was a gun used in the commission of those murders
00:57:42
almost six years and then even after an arrest was made they didn't confirm that
00:57:48
until it went to trial so I'm I'm with you Captain I think that was a if if there was they could have kept some
00:57:55
things under WRA here and this Ransom letter should have been a big part of that now I do want to point out
00:58:02
something because we've we've danced on this a little bit with with John Ramsey well if he knew paty Ramsey wrote this
00:58:12
letter there why would he give this notepad to the police if John knew that paty uh that
00:58:22
that if John was covering up the murder of his daughter why would he openly discussed the window that he broke it
00:58:30
that summer I want some people to keep this in mind and and us to keep it in mind as
00:58:35
well Steve Thomas who was one of the lead investigators on this case and why while I may not agree with
00:58:45
his his hypothesis as he likes to call it on on what happened there that night his book is very good I've read it
00:58:53
several times I recommend it to everybody regardless of what theory you think is
00:58:58
correct and even even if you have a theory who cares continue the investigation continue to seek information because we
00:59:07
don't know until we know but Steve Thomas's hypothesis his theory is that paty Ramsay's responsible
00:59:17
and John Ramsey was not aware now he may have become aware at some point but was
00:59:24
not aware that night or even that morning so what that would imply to me is that he is not participating in the
00:59:35
cover up because he doesn't know that he should be exactly and I think that would
00:59:41
make sense with a lot of John Ramsay's actions and that leads to this this other topic here crime scene containment
00:59:50
and let's put containment in air quotes there because there was no containment of the crime scene and that I think
00:59:56
think is is one of the biggest problems in this case whether there was a cover up by the Ramsay or by Just One of the
01:00:04
ramsy or if there was an intruder and collecting evidence and all that we know that the the police did not contain the
01:00:13
scene when they arrived there thinking that there was an abduction they did not contain the scene
01:00:20
at all and and the ramies didn't contain the scene either but they're civilians they're they're you know and if in fact
01:00:27
their daughter if in fact they believe that their daughter was kidnapped they're probably not in the right state
01:00:32
of mind but this is one thing that that absolutely ticks me off about this case and Boulder PD's handling of this case
01:00:44
they don't talk about this case a whole lot but when they do notice what they say really police their
01:00:52
words they choose to make things convenient for their investigation right meaning oh
01:01:02
well this was probably not an abduction attempt for ransom because our City's never had one
01:01:10
before right makes no sense right but then when asked well why didn't you contain the scene why didn't you
01:01:20
lock down the damn house then they say well when we got there it appeared that an abduction had taken place okay so
01:01:28
which is it we reviewed the letter and immediately that's telling us that someone inside the home killed the girl
01:01:35
or somebody something happened inside this home we've not even found the girl yet yeah so when it's convenient for
01:01:42
them they point to well things look the way that they did look when they want to
01:01:46
tell you that the Ramsay know what happened to their daughter they point to oh it was a cover up and these guys
01:01:53
didn't know what they were doing and here's is poking holes in their cover up and why it doesn't work you can't use
01:02:01
that for both arguments you can't you you can't say well we did our job best to our ability but it was complicated
01:02:07
because of this no the truth at the end of the day is you didn't regardless of what you thought when you arrived you
01:02:13
didn't contain the scene you didn't secure evidence and you didn't search the home completely there's no nice way
01:02:22
of putting it the dead girl is in the basement you didn't find her after searching the home twice and in the docu
01:02:29
series when paty Ramsey says and of course this is old video footage she's saying while we were there waiting for
01:02:37
the phone call or waiting from for contact from the the kidnappers I asked the police well what are you doing
01:02:45
outside of this home are you did you shut down any of the roads are you are you searching the airport and I it
01:02:53
sarcastically in my head when I watching that part of this docu series I said to
01:02:58
myself pretending to be the officer responding to her her question well no ma'am we we're not
01:03:05
searching the airport hell we've not even fully searched your home yet right this is interesting because the Linda
01:03:12
art part so Linda art was at the scene very early on and she was tasked with trying to keep everybody calm and try to
01:03:21
keep everybody at Bay remember she even says in many statements that she was in charge of of keeping everybody inside
01:03:30
the home so now inside the home we have father hover stock we have some of the Ramsay's friends that were that were at
01:03:37
the dinner party with them the night before and at this time everybody the girl is Missing they've
01:03:45
not found her in the basement yet in this docu series we see footage this is old footage that that had been on
01:03:52
magazine shows many many years ago but it's Linda art saying that well uh John Ramsay's doing all these
01:04:01
suspicious actions now one thing she's always said is that she was having trouble keeping
01:04:08
him in the den in his office area she had told him to go into the den and that she was having trouble keeping him in
01:04:16
there again why do you need to keep him in there if if if law enforcement is telling us all these years later well
01:04:24
when we arrived on the scene it looked like an abduction you don't need to keep him in there number two they point out
01:04:31
like well he was going through his mail like he doesn't care like well why wouldn't he care because he already
01:04:35
knows what happened he's part of the cover up or or he killed his daughter and Ramsay states in the docu series
01:04:42
well I was going through the mail because I thought well maybe I didn't have to go out to the mail box and
01:04:47
collect it it comes through the mail shoot and he thought well maybe if there if the kidnappers try to contact us
01:04:53
maybe somebody dropped a letter or wrote a letter and there would be further instruction I don't think that fully
01:05:01
explains it away but I I look I have a very big Linda AR is a very big problem for me for many reasons one I feel bad
01:05:11
for her because she was at that scene all by herself with so many people inside that home and people have said
01:05:18
well she didn't do a very good job while she was inside that home keep in mind if
01:05:23
any if you held rank at all at Boulder PD it's Christmas time you were not working that day not only that a lot of
01:05:29
those dudes were on vacation a lot of a lot of the higher ups men and women were
01:05:33
on vacation some of them not even in the area we know Steve Thomas who's a detective was he wasn't even in Boulder
01:05:40
when this took place she where I feel bad for her is she is being blamed for not containing and the people inside
01:05:48
that home and yet when she called for help many times and kept asking are you sending anybody else out here a couple
01:05:56
of those calls they didn't even bother to respond to her they didn't even bother to say no we're not sending
01:06:01
anybody they just didn't even respond to her can you imagine and then later being
01:06:04
blamed for something like you gave me an an impossible task and then you criticized me openly to the public for
01:06:13
not being able to fulfill that task right but then she goes on camera saying how guilty she thinks John Ramsay is one
01:06:21
thing that's missing from this this whole portion of the story is Linda AR was consoling openly consoling the
01:06:30
ramies after John Bay was found dead and I'm not talking about right then and there I'm talking weeks and and and
01:06:38
maybe even months afterwards well and that's a problem with this case is there's so many people that have given
01:06:44
their opinions but their their facts quote unquote facts of what happened changed after they came up with their
01:06:55
own theor and so John Ramsey states that he thought if he could keep his wits about
01:07:00
him that he could get his daughter back and so you have this guy that thinks in this moment and that and that to me
01:07:10
makes a lot of sense if you're a parent oh my God my kids's missing what can I do stay calm that's the only chance that
01:07:19
we have to get her back if I'm law enforcement I'm saying if you don't live here get the F out everybody else sit in
01:07:28
this room now we're clearing the house we're going to make sure that this kidnapper is still not in the house
01:07:37
we're going to make sure that this victim is still not in the house once I do a search I'm going to go back and
01:07:44
take John Ramsay everybody else sit here we're going to go search the house do you does anything look at a place to you
01:07:54
you know give me information as we're going through every room then I'm sitting his ass down and I'm doing the
01:08:00
same thing with paty I'm going through all that again I'm trying to contain the situation because what they had was the
01:08:07
worst thing happened is a parent to find the victim and then contaminate the scene even more Linda aren't look you
01:08:18
want to talk about she is assuming somebody's demeanor she's assuming somebody's actions as strange
01:08:26
this is not evidence this is just somebody's opinion again like you said I think you
01:08:32
could argue that her opinion changed completely and and this was hey if I say I I I exchanged looks with John ramsy
01:08:41
and and he like let me know that he was the killer this makes a better story and
01:08:46
maybe I could make some money off of it because obviously I'm awful at my [ __ ]
01:08:52
job and so then just watch her interview and and tell me what you think of her demeanor just watch her interview
01:09:01
tell me what you think about her actions I mean out of all the people that I've watched interview and some of those were
01:09:09
serial killers she comes off like the craziest person I think I've ever seen interviewed so I I just think um and
01:09:21
maybe one could argue that she feels like she did mess up and that she was getting [ __ ] on by people for messing up
01:09:28
so this is her excuse on on why that happened but she also moved the victim she made so many mistakes and I think
01:09:39
this was her way to try to distance herself from the mistakes that she made instead of just owning up to them again
01:09:47
I have a big problem with an officer technically she was a detective at this time um calling for help and asking are
01:09:54
you sending anybody else and that they not even getting an answer I mean come on right yeah but it's a huge mistake to
01:10:01
then tell the the big the bigest father to go check the house again with no law enforcement present with him the biggest
01:10:10
re the biggest advantage that law enforcement has over criminals is that there the the Manpower the the the
01:10:18
people power the resources the communication that you can team up and gang up on a situation so you can
01:10:26
control a situation here they let they they put her out there and and just let her drown basically and then but but and
01:10:35
look I'll try to give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she's doing good detective work and consoling the problem
01:10:40
I have is that her consoling the Ramsay later days and weeks after the murder but in the moment saying to herself oh I
01:10:49
knew right then that John Ramsey killed his daughter well then why are you consoling them well maybe that's good
01:10:54
toex work and she's trying to be a friend and thinks that maybe she can get some information from them later so I'll
01:11:01
give her the benefit of the doubt there but then when you complain later that you can't control John Ramsey and keep
01:11:07
him in the den and then you send him off on searching the house well that seems counterintuitive to what your initial
01:11:16
goal was of keeping him in the office right I mean a lot of her story just doesn't make any sense and what do we
01:11:24
learn from this docu docu series we learned that many law enforcement agents that were not directly involved in the
01:11:33
case were hearing the parents are responsible and then they all went okay well these detectives must know what
01:11:41
they're talking about so we're just going to assume that they're guilty as well you know and and to go back to
01:11:50
Steve Thomas for a minute he adits through his deposition that this was a plan he he says through
01:11:59
the FBI uh I think again to uh distance himself from criticism but it was a plan
01:12:08
to leak information and they were leaking lie after lie after lie instead of just doing their job and it's
01:12:19
pathetic to any case that we covered if we found out years later that there was handfuls
01:12:28
of Lies leaked to Media that's buffoonery I mean they but but it does happen it's
01:12:39
this is not the only case where where police have taken that tactic but also but but to this degree it
01:12:47
seems yeah but also if this is why you'll have somebody like Ashley flowers interview John Ramsey and not the
01:12:57
captain interview John Ramsay because I would love to scream at him you you you want to
01:13:04
crucify law enforcement but you wanted them so badly to investigate this case with their
01:13:14
hands tied behind their back and I understand that you know he says that they gave them handwriting samples and
01:13:21
DNA samples and all this stuff but you didn't sit down for interviews you you you prefer to sit down on CNN and do an
01:13:29
interview that you probably could control the questions and there's if you would adest
01:13:37
and I I I get that there's this idea that well they're looking at us for this crime that's the only people they're
01:13:45
looking at but some of that comes from not being cooperative with law enforcement if you have some unskilled
01:13:53
untrained law enforcement agent and go okay well they're just not being that Cooperative with us and and you think
01:14:01
law enforcement is tunnel vision some some could argue that law enforcement has never moved on past the
01:14:09
theory that it was the ramies but I I I think the Ramsay are partly to blame why we're
01:14:17
sitting 27 years later and this case isn't solved and some people will go well you're you're victim blaming well
01:14:25
what do we know most likely statistics tell us the the victims found in the house it's most likely the Killer is
01:14:34
from in the house the age of the victim is more likely that they're going to be killed by a family member than a unknown
01:14:42
person so I think when you put all that into account and again we're not privy to all the information so for all we
01:14:52
know yeah the the Ramsey's lawyered up but the lawyer was super cooperative and this is just another lie by law
01:15:00
enforcement to say the Rams weren't Cooperative at all you know maybe it's somewhere in the middle but I think both
01:15:06
are to blame we have you know bumbling buffoons of law enforcement and then we have a very suspicious I think two are
01:15:17
to blame we have bumbling buffoons of a police department and then we have a family that feels like they're
01:15:25
under a magnifying glass and instead of opening up and and sharing as much as they could I I think the difficult thing
01:15:33
becomes for for the parents let's look at this part from the the them being innocent
01:15:42
right if they're if they're being if they are innocent the difficult thing then becomes one we're g we're trying to
01:15:50
grieve and two we see the police looking a lot at us and not looking anywhere else you know me man I want justice as
01:16:00
much as anybody else in every case out there not just this one in every case out there and and but I don't know how
01:16:06
much I'm cooperating with police either given my wealth of knowledge about cases
01:16:11
because we've re reviewed so many cases over the years if if I start thinking well they're they're looking at
01:16:19
me oh and then I can compound that with I don't see any evidence that they're looking out side of my home for anybody
01:16:27
yeah and I know I didn't kill my daughter [ __ ] you I ain't agree I ain't do I ain't helping you with your
01:16:34
investigation get outside of my house and start looking for somebody man and and and you're right and I think the the
01:16:42
part of this too is if they are innocent then you are a civilian you're you're not trained in any of this you don't
01:16:50
know what the what the investigation is doing in front of you behind the scenes you are likely going off of the advice
01:16:59
of your Council that you've hired and if if the attorney I hire says Nick if you
01:17:05
talk to them you you you stand a chance that they'll never go out and look for the real killer that they're gonna lock
01:17:13
your ass up yeah and I and I think if you're the Ramsay if you're John Ramsey the tra the tragedy already
01:17:23
happened your kid is already dead so maybe they don't solve the case but a bigger tra bigger tragedy would be for
01:17:35
the blame to be put on one of us or both of us and again we have other children that we have to be responsible for so I
01:17:45
I I get uh why they did it but I think it's a part of the equation of why it's not solved after 27 years and then
01:17:54
Boulder comes out in the last week or so and makes these statements about the case and what they're working on and and
01:18:02
claims hey we made a lot of mistakes and we we got to take ownership of that that's easy to do when you're the new
01:18:10
person on the case is to say well we made a lot of mistakes and we're going to take ownership of those mistakes that
01:18:15
I didn't make but other people made but even John Ramsay's response to that was I need to know what they're doing I need
01:18:24
to know details and and if you tell me those details and you uh give me this information I'll shut up and I'll let
01:18:32
you just do your job but until then I'm not going to shut up and you want to say
01:18:38
well John Ramsey that's not how this works they don't have to give you all the information of what they're doing
01:18:45
and why they're doing it it's an open investigation for a reason exactly so I do think that is kind of telling of how
01:18:53
John Ramsey Fus this and again I mean there could be just a ton of frustration from his end but and and I want to be
01:19:00
clear I I I want to be clear here because sometimes people hear things that we're not saying and and sometimes
01:19:06
that's our fault but mostly my fault what what I do want to say here is if somebody believes that the lack of
01:19:16
cooperation by the Ramsay points toward their guilt I can agree with that I can absolutely agree with that thought that
01:19:27
opinion so I'm not dismissing it completely I'm also trying to look at it from the angle of if they are true
01:19:37
victims why they may not have cooperated and look not to make light of the situation but we opened up the show with
01:19:46
a Seinfeld reference and so maybe we Clos the show and the show today on a Seinfeld
01:19:53
reference anybody that's watched that show remember the Jackie Charles Cosmo Kramer
01:20:00
relationship Jackie Charles was the fictional lawyer on that show and on multiple occasions he got involved with
01:20:10
Kramer who was suing a big business and Kramer always mucked up the situation because he would make a decision on his
01:20:19
own without his attorney he would make a decision or agree to something with this
01:20:24
big company or a settlement with the large company without the council that he seek out and hired for to represent
01:20:32
him and what was Jackie child's response every time was who told you to talk to them did I tell you to talk to them why
01:20:39
did you talk to them and he always he always messed up their case and I I don't know I'm not trying to make light
01:20:46
of the situation but that I think is is kind of a funny way to really point out well if in this situation if the Ramsay
01:20:56
who did hire attorneys tell them do not talk to them without us present or without us controlling the
01:21:04
situation you might want to follow that you're paying for that advice you might want to follow that advice
01:21:12
[Music] so as you can tell this case makes me heated this docmentary makes me heated as well I
01:21:32
don't know why I get so worked up about this case but I think it's cuz at the end of the day we have a six-year-old
01:21:39
victim that had so much more of her life to live and whether you think the family
01:21:44
is responsible or an intruder is responsible she didn't get to live out the remaining days of her life we're
01:21:54
going to talk more about this because there's we have a whole list of uh points still left to get to so we're
01:22:04
going to get to those on off the Record so for those that are fascinated by the John Benet Ramsey case join us for part
01:22:11
two and possibly part three on off the Record and if this is just a case that you're tired of I I get that sentiment
01:22:21
as well not every case is not for every person and and I will go ahead and say shame on you Captain for getting so
01:22:27
worked up during this episode I was able to stay calm the entire time yes no F bombs dropped nothing at all on my part
01:22:35
so I I don't know why you can't conduct yourself in a more professional manner but no I look look if you're sick of
01:22:41
this case of course you're not you're just not interested anymore I get it but for the rest of us that are very
01:22:48
interested in this case and as you can tell the captain and I are extremely if you have a heartbeat man
01:22:54
hard not to get all worked up about this case it's incredibly frustrating it's it's it's very frustrating that it's not
01:23:03
been solved and it's easy to get angry that at the investigation itself and that it's dragged on and so we apologize
01:23:12
to everybody out there for getting worked up but guess what we got heartbeats here we got big hearts and
01:23:17
it's that time of year again big hearts and big farts that's right so if you are
01:23:23
already a subscriber make sure you check out off the Record where we will continue the conversation
01:23:29
if you're not a subscriber consider it it's available on Apple subscription and also on patreon we want to thank
01:23:35
everybody for listening to us scream and yell at the walls here today wherever you are we hope you're happy and safe
01:23:43
enjoying life and if you haven't checked out the docu series yet make sure you check that out and until next time be
01:23:51
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