00:00:00
I was trapped in the cult a new true crime docu series everything inside of me was screaming just go 10 Cults he
00:00:10
claimed he heard the voice of God 10 stories of Escape he was an emotional battle we were brainwashed my sister and
00:00:18
I got on the snow machine and I'm like there's no way out and if I got caught he would for sure kill me how I escaped
00:00:26
my cult all episodes now streaming on Hulu this is a mini meditation Guided by bombus repeat after me I'm comfy comfy
00:00:38
I'm cozy cozy I have zero blisters on my toes blisters and that's cuz I wear bombus the softest socks underwear and
00:00:45
t-shirts that give back one purchased equals one donated now go to bombas.com sxm podcast and use code sxm podcast for
00:00:54
20% off your first purchase that's bombas.com sxm podcast and use code sxm podcast fast a checkout
00:01:08
[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has lived his entire life in shame here is the cap
00:01:54
and I'm going to continue to live my life in shame it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
00:02:00
thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are featuring gold strong golden ale by the fine Brewers
00:02:09
over yards Brewing Company in the City of Brotherly Love and championships Philly PA 8% ABV garage grade three and
00:02:19
a half bottle caps out of five and let's give some thanks and some praise and some cheers to our good friends that
00:02:27
helped us fill up the old garage fridge for this week's shows first up a cheers to Megan in St reges Montana and a big
00:02:35
we like your jib goes out to Jessica right in whyoming here's a double fisted cheers to Melissa and Trevor from West
00:02:42
Point Georgia and a big talk hands in the air to Cheryl Bullock in Champagne Illinois and last but certainly not
00:02:49
least we have Pick Pack Bob in Louisville Kentucky everybody we just mentioned went to True Crim garage.com
00:02:56
clicked on the Pint glass and helped us with this week's beer Beer Run for the beer fund and for that we thank you yeah
00:03:03
BW R and beerun for everything True Crime Check out true crime garage.com and make sure you sign up on
00:03:10
the mailing list and Colonel that is enough of the be all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
00:03:17
let's talk some true cry I need a now I just I just walk into my AP my G's on the floor with blood everywhere what
00:03:35
is the address 4601 Flat Rock Road please come help1 flat Flat Rock Road is this a
00:03:43
house or apartment oh no oh no it's an apartment please hurry please where she bleeding from I don't know I can't tell
00:03:51
she's so you have to calm yourself down in order to get you some help I'm sorry I'm sorry she I don't know I'm looking
00:03:58
at her right now she I don't I can't see anything she didn't there's nothing broken she's
00:04:05
bleed Ellie you don't know where she's bleeding from can's coming from it's I think her head I think she hit her head
00:04:11
I think but it's everywhere it's everywhere she might have fallen do you know what happened she she may have
00:04:18
slipped there's blood on the on the table her her face is a little purple okay hold on for rescue for her stay on
00:04:25
the phone my like I just my I went downstairs go work out I came back up the door was latched my fiance is inside
00:04:34
she wasn't she wasn't answering so after about a half hour I decided to break it
00:04:38
down I see her now just on the floor blood she's not she's not responding okay is she
00:04:44
breathing I look at her chest I need you to calm down and I need you to look at her chest it's really I don't think she
00:04:50
I really don't think she is listen to me someone's on the way look at her chest is she flat on her back she's on her
00:04:56
back so I bring look at her chest and tell me if it's going up and down up and down I don't see her moving okay do you
00:05:03
know how to do CPR I don't okay I can tell you what to do okay until they get there I want you to keep her oh God
00:05:10
hello yeah hi okay willing to do CPR with me over the phone till they I I have to right okay so get her flat on
00:05:17
her back bear her chest okay you want to rip her shirt off okay heel down by her
00:05:22
side oh my God Ellie please listen listen you can't freak out sir cuz you okay I'm try not I'm try not
00:05:30
her shirt won't come off it's a zipper oh my God she stabbed herself where she fell in a knife oh no her knife's
00:05:37
sticking out her what there's a knife sticking out of her heart oh she stabbed herself I can't I guess so I don't know
00:05:44
where she fell on it I don't know okay well don't touch it okay so I'm just I just let her here now I mean what do I
00:05:51
do no I mean you can't if the knife is in her chest it's going to be kind of hard for you to do CPR at this time oh
00:05:57
no oh my goodness Okay police operator 277 is someone coming here yes they are you said 4601 Flat Rock right yes okay
00:06:07
someone's on the way and the knife is still inside your what the knife is still inside of her yes I didn't take it out
00:06:15
is it her chest or what area is it's in her chest it's like it looks like it's it looks like it's right in her
00:06:21
heart okay someone's on the way out there okay just get oh my God oh my God how old is she she's 27 27 there's no
00:06:29
sign of life at all under her arm no please don't be what vent her under her arm and tell me
00:06:36
if she responds to pain she's Ellie she not she's not her arm her hands are still warm I don't know what
00:06:45
that means but there's blood every I mean I know but you can't and the knif is still inside of her how far can you
00:06:50
see how far it went in it looks pretty deep okay it looks straight and it's a long knife don't touch anything yeah
00:06:57
don't touch anything okay I'm not touching anything I can't believe this though wait it was
00:07:01
just you there with her we yeah we're the only ones here and she ran in the door you said L is shut
00:07:08
no no I I I went downstairs to work out and I when I came back up the door was latched like it was you know it wasn't
00:07:16
like it you know it was like locked from the inside and I'm yelling and so I was yelling brok into
00:07:24
no no no no no so there no sign of a Breakin no no sign of a Breakin at all I mean there will be when you get here cuz
00:07:30
I had to break the latch but to get in okay [Music] 461 well you heard it there folks a
00:07:55
strange and bizarre 911 call to say the very least but this case that we have on tap for you in
00:08:03
the garage today is an intriguing one with some twist and some turns and frankly some surprising findings and
00:08:10
conclusions along the way we have 27-year-old Ellen Ray Greenberg whose mysterious and tragic death on January
00:08:20
26 2011 this has led her parents down a long and troubling Road filled with opposition and legal battles simp simply
00:08:29
to determine correctly the manner of Ellen's death was it suicide was it a homicide or should the death have been
00:08:36
ruled undetermined listen to the facts of the case and decide for yourself on that day January 26 2011 a blizzard hit
00:08:46
Philadelphia Philadelphia received almost 15 Ines of snow by the time the storm was over many of the
00:08:53
municipalities declared snow emergencies 27-year-old Ellen Ray Greenberg was a school teacher so she had to leave work
00:09:02
that day to return to her apartment the school closed down that evening Ellen was pronounced dead as a result of 20
00:09:10
stab wounds including 10 to her back and neck there were more than three dozen accidents during the morning of the 26
00:09:18
that's traffic accidents due to the Blizzard due to the snow Philadelphia International Airport had 41 morning
00:09:26
flights cancelled and it had an average delay of 3 hours from my understanding here Captain the first surge of snow on
00:09:35
the morning of the 26th many of the school districts had to make last minute decisions to either close or have
00:09:41
delayed openings but many closed early that afternoon and we know that Ellen went to work that day the school closed
00:09:51
early that day and she had to go home we will go through that day in great detail
00:09:56
but first let's go through some background information Ellen Greenberg was born June 23rd 1983 in New York City
00:10:06
to parents Josh and Sandy Greenberg the greenbergs themselves the parents they met on a blind date in New York City in
00:10:14
1978 and they also lived in northern New Jersey Josh was a periodontist about their daughter says
00:10:23
mother Sandy Greenberg Ellen she was a really fun adorable very loving bubbly young woman with a bright future ahead
00:10:32
of her she loved life and was very positive and upbeat she was competitive giving her best from the softball field
00:10:41
to the golf course and here's a quote that's going to get you right in the heart Ellen had a great smile says her
00:10:48
father Josh Greenberg quote not a big smile she had a great smile end quote in 1994 the family moved to the Harrisburg
00:10:58
area where where Sandy is from Ellen was in Middle School back then attending sahana Township Schools this is Suburban
00:11:09
Harrisburg Pennsylvania Harrisburg is the capital city of Pennsylvania with a population of over 50,000 people in 2020
00:11:17
after graduating high school Ellen attended Penn State University where she worked as a lionizer introducing
00:11:25
athletes and their parents to the campus and even helped out on the football field I've seen these people in action
00:11:32
from being a person that held season tickets to Ohio State Buckeye football for many years and I never knew what
00:11:40
those persons were called that that walked the athletes around and you could see them at different Events maybe
00:11:47
showing them the stadium or walking their parents through the stadium or walking them around campus for the first
00:11:52
time that was one of the jobs that she held during her time at Penn State she graduated from Penn State with a degree
00:11:59
in Communications and after that she decided to attend Temple University taking night classes to earn teaching
00:12:06
credentials after which she became a first grade teacher at Wanita Park Academy in Philadelphia she loved Penn
00:12:16
State and loved Penn State football is what everybody says here Captain a big part of the story as we know from the
00:12:23
911 call is Sam Goldberg who was Ellen's fiance at the time of her death the two of them met in
00:12:32
2007 through a mutual friend and then in the summer of 2010 this is after three years of dating Sam proposed to Ellen on
00:12:41
the beach during a trip to the great state of California she says yes and after getting engaged Ellen Greenberg
00:12:49
and Sam Goldberg moved to a apartment on the sixth floor over the skull kill River in Philadelphia
00:12:59
this is the Venice loft apartments and it's located at 4601 Flat Rock Road they are Unit 603 located on the sixth floor
00:13:09
of the building the wedding is scheduled for August of 2011 now in the winter of 2010 Ellen's
00:13:18
parents and some of her friends they say that this is when they noticed a significant change in her
00:13:26
behavior we heard how her mother described her her we heard how her father described Ellen and so she was
00:13:34
always this cheerful composed person but they say around this time she became increasingly anxious and
00:13:43
very stressed and when questioned about this about these changes people voed their concern ask her what's going on
00:13:51
Ellen attributed a lot of her anxiety to work pressures did cite that there was stress coming from planning the wedding
00:13:59
but it seems like everything's going right and right on schedule she goes to a great University she gets a good
00:14:06
education she gets a good job she finds her man her man proposes this is setting up to get
00:14:16
married and probably start a family within the next few years she's right on schedule so it's a little odd to me that
00:14:24
she feels so stressed or that there was some kind of change in her personal ity or maybe her Outlook towards life in
00:14:32
December of 2010 her anxiety reached a point where she even expressed a desire to quit her job and to move back home
00:14:40
with her parents and one particular text that stands out her parents say that she
00:14:47
texts them quote I want to leave this place get me out which I find strange because it's one thing to say hey this
00:14:55
job is stressful I need to leave my job but to move home when you're already roommates with your future husband why
00:15:04
would you want to leave that situation that to me is some kind of foreshadowing or some indication that not just her job
00:15:13
is stressful but maybe this relationship is stressful as well the phrase I want to leave this place is very troubling to
00:15:20
me because it could mean any number of scenarios it could mean her job it could mean her relationship places oftenly
00:15:29
is often times used as an abbreviation for any number of things right it could it could simply be they moved into this
00:15:37
apartment complex and she hates this apartment complex I want to leave this place and then if you want to take it to
00:15:43
the extreme you wonder and you worry does she mean this world her life I want to leave this place get me out there's
00:15:52
not any great definition that is put to that text and it's concerning and it's troubling but we don't have any to to
00:16:03
expand on what she meant by choosing those words and sending them to her parents now some of this information I
00:16:11
want people to keep in mind will not be known to those around Ellen until after her
00:16:19
death so on December 18th 2010 this is a little more than a month before her death someone used Ellen's
00:16:29
computer and I purposely Chang this so if you go to Crime Tim lines.com which is has a wealth of information on this
00:16:39
particular case and a wealth of information on some other cases as well that website probably has the most
00:16:46
information that you can find on the Ellen Greenberg case now I used their timeline but I I overlapped it with a
00:16:55
couple of other timelines that are found online as well so we would have the ability to kind of triple check
00:17:01
those sources and that information but one thing that irritated me a little bit Captain with the
00:17:07
timelines that I was able to find online is they often say that Ellen searched these terms right I don't think that's
00:17:17
fair what we do know is someone searched the terms that we're about to discuss using Ellen's computer it's reasonable
00:17:26
to say that Ellen searched these terms but it's not factual it's not proven 100% so on December 18th 2010 someone
00:17:36
using Ellen's computer searched the terms Suffocation and suicide methods it's important to note here that she
00:17:46
does have her own computer so she's living with her fiance but he has his own computer as well right but sometimes
00:17:54
when you're living with somebody you have a computer that the whole house uses now back to Ellen asking her
00:18:01
parents this is around the same time that she asked her parents or mentioned to her parents the thought of moving
00:18:06
back home back to Harrisburg Pennsylvania they thought this was odd giving her impending marriage and like
00:18:15
you said she's already living there with her fiance they say that Ellen told them
00:18:21
that this had nothing to do with her fiance now around the same time her family urged her to seek profession help
00:18:30
so Ellen goes and sees a psychiatrist on three occasions that we know of who prescribed for her Colin and
00:18:37
ambient kopin for the anxiety and panic attacks and ambient for her insomnia again was she suffering we we've already
00:18:47
mentioned anxiety there had been no mention of panic attacks up until this moment and no mention of insomnia up
00:18:54
until this moment but I'm I'm going to make the Assumption here Captain if the doctor prescribed these medications
00:19:02
for this purpose then these were things that she was experiencing and suffering through well and the difficult thing
00:19:09
with any mental illness is we don't know exactly how the medication is going to affect each individual patient it could
00:19:19
make the situation better but it could make the situation worse and most of the time when doctors are prescribing new
00:19:26
medications to help with mental issues they will say hey if you're feeling worse because of this let me know yeah
00:19:35
and the insomnia thing is scary for me to think about too because we don't know to what degree is this is it simply I'm
00:19:44
having trouble falling asleep I'm having trouble staying asleep or is it straight
00:19:48
up like The Machinist movie where the guy doesn't sleep for days and then it becomes weeks and even longer than that
00:19:56
and I mean you can only imagine the extremes that one would experience if they were not getting any sleep at all
00:20:05
well like I've said many times on this show I think we need to talk about mental health more openly and honestly
00:20:12
and anytime somebody has reached out to me and said hey you've talked about on the show could you give me any advice
00:20:18
I'd say four things hydration sleep diet exercise slash just moving doesn't have
00:20:27
to be going for a run but maybe going for a walk but like I said sleep is so important and anybody that has dealt
00:20:36
with distressors or any me mental illness you could be having a horrible day maybe you're having panic attacks
00:20:46
you're having anxiety you're having crying spells you get a good night's sleep sometimes that can fix everything
00:20:55
so if you're having problems with your sleep that could amplify the mental illness and I don't know if you have any
00:21:02
familiarity with these two drugs that we just discussed but I believe they're both technically a narcotic that they're
00:21:09
at that level now I did take kopin very briefly I was prescribed it and my the way my body reacted to it was I felt
00:21:19
like I had just shotgunned about four or five beers like I I felt buzzed when I would take one and I didn't like the
00:21:29
feeling and and for that reason I was taken off of it like you said earlier a good doctor will say tell me how this
00:21:36
feels or tell me what you're experiencing early on so if this isn't right for you we can switch you to
00:21:42
something else ambient I've never taken I've I but I know a lot of individuals that have taken ambient and they've
00:21:51
described it to me and again everybody's body is different and chemistries are different but the way that it's
00:21:58
described to me is that they would go into a very weird like High Zombie like state
00:22:06
for just a few minutes before going completely under and asleep but that's as much familiarity I have
00:22:15
with either of these two drugs now sometime around the holidays Ellen Greenberg began to change for the worst
00:22:23
according to those closest to her she was anxious overwhelmed at work less eager to appear in photographs the work
00:22:31
thing I find to be a little strange because I have heard and read plenty of people saying how much she enjoyed being
00:22:37
a teacher and how much she loved teaching the kids that she taught and she loved the school she could be going
00:22:43
through changes or or the or the environment could be changing itself she did talk to a cousin about moving into
00:22:50
her guest room but didn't say why she asked her father if she could come home to Paris Harrisburg but didn't say why
00:22:58
he told her to see a psychiatrist we talked about that and her mother came to visit her
00:23:04
concerned yeah around this time too trying to find out what was wrong but she felt that Ellen wasn't wasn't being
00:23:12
forthcoming with with all the information that she was holding back look look if because suicide is one of
00:23:19
the things we'll be talking about in this episode and and throughout this case we have
00:23:26
to understand that that is is not just a real possibility it would be a ruling at
00:23:33
some point we can't say exactly what it is that Ellen was experiencing or if she
00:23:41
even understood it for herself especially if this ends up being a suicide case yeah I mean that's to me
00:23:49
the definition of mental illness is having a hard time processing what your mind is putting yourself through and
00:23:58
maybe not even understanding your own emotions your own feelings your own thoughts right because if you understood
00:24:04
them and you were able to control them that's not mental illness I'm going to fast forward a little bit here Captain
00:24:10
to January 8th 2011 this is when Ellen text her mom saying I'm starting the medication
00:24:19
so she abbreviates some of this I'm starting the med I know you don't understand but I can't keep living with
00:24:25
feeling this way end quote then two days later on the 10th someone on her computer on Ellen's computer someone
00:24:35
searches the terms quick death or I'm sorry term quick death and someone opened an article on euth in Asia and
00:24:45
browsed a website about painless suicide on January 22nd Ellen sent out her save
00:24:52
the date cards for the wedding and she was helping her close friend with her friend upcoming wedding on that day they
00:25:00
go shopping for bridesmaid's dresses while looking for dresses Ellen just starts crying uncontrollably and she
00:25:10
tells her friend I'm sorry I know I'm not myself but I'll get it together let me just put this out there and and maybe
00:25:18
you'll agree maybe you'll disagree but even if you're marrying your best friend even if you're in a
00:25:27
relationship that has been very positive towards you some people get emotional or
00:25:34
have some confusion that's why we have the term cold feet right because it's the death of the single self and now
00:25:44
you're entering a partnership where a lot of people break up boyfriends girlfriends they break up relationships
00:25:53
don't last forever but you're making a commitment for a relationship to last forever so I do think that there is some
00:26:02
Society or family pressure that once you're in that committed relationship as a marriage that maybe that people just
00:26:10
feel more pressure to work out a bad situation but there's a lot of people that and we don't know their
00:26:20
relationship situation cuz we're not in that relationship behind closed doors but there there's many people that get
00:26:28
engaged to somebody that they're still questioning do they want to be with because sometimes in that moment when
00:26:36
you're being proposed to you you think the only option is to say yes because maybe you're not sure that you want to
00:26:45
marry them but you are sure that you don't want to break up with them so this can be a very stressful time and anybody
00:26:53
that has married somebody and that marriage has been very bad will often talk I kind of knew this stuff
00:27:01
beforehand I I wish I would have never married them the thing I was concerned about here too Captain is the living
00:27:08
situation because to me I'm trying to look for what is the biggest change in this person's life and I I would want to
00:27:16
find what is the biggest change in their lifestyle prior to their death regardless if it's a suicide or a
00:27:22
homicide I would always want to try to figure that out so in this situation it appears to you know she's with Sam for
00:27:30
quite some time before they they get engaged did they live together prior to this new apartment it doesn't sound that
00:27:39
way to me and she's had her job for quite some time so the biggest change to me in her life that I see is not her
00:27:47
relationship it's not her work it's simply where she lives and it might be her and Sam living together for the
00:27:56
first time and there are a lot of people out out there that are great together when they can go back to their own
00:28:02
apartment or go stay on their own from time to time and then there are a lot of people that just simply don't work once
00:28:09
you put them together and make them live under the same roof well and just to correct you and I think that is a change
00:28:17
in in their relationship yes so she has a change in her living situation but there is a
00:28:24
change in the relationship they went from boyfriend and girlfriend that live separately to boyfriend and girlfriend
00:28:30
or fiance what what a stupid word that are living together and how many well I've heard this from men and women oh
00:28:40
they were so clean and so organized every time I go over to their apartment it was so clean and organized now we
00:28:46
live together and they're just a slob mhm so things do change when you start living together oh yeah when
00:28:54
you're dating it's like a job interview for for most of it but once you live together it's like you've hired the
00:29:02
person and now you figure out how they really conduct themselves on a day-to-day basis and and just like at
00:29:08
work you might not approve we're like Fine Wines we just get better with time but back to your point there's a major
00:29:16
change in her life and it's not just this engagement but it's a change in the living situation and it's a change in
00:29:26
the relationship situ [Music] [Applause] ation every 26 seconds a burglary takes
00:29:39
place in the US according to FBI data that means by the time this podcast ends dozens of homes will have been targeted
00:29:47
protect your home before it's too late with simply safe's proactive security system Simply Safe helps to stop threats
00:29:54
before they even have the chance to break in simply safe's active guard outdoor protection uses AI powered
00:30:00
cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents to monitor your property and detect suspicious activity
00:30:07
if someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously those agents see and talk to them in real time activate spotlights
00:30:15
and even contact the police all before they've had the chance to get inside your home I love Simply Safe here at
00:30:21
True Crime garage we've been telling people to get Simply Safe to protect your home and business for years now I
00:30:28
feel confident telling you that this is the most complete Security system out there and it's the type of system that
00:30:35
can stop crimes before they even happen it's easy to use it's affordable and it's easy to install visit simplysafe
00:30:44
docomo to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and your first month free that's simplys
00:30:52
safe.com garage there's no safe like simplysafe oh I've got too many bills if you need
00:31:01
funds you can apply in minutes at cashnetusa.com and have the money in your account as soon as the same
00:31:06
business day okay got it applying now they've been helping hardworking people cover emergency expenses since 2014 hey
00:31:15
look I got it you've got this when you need money fast be the hero all loans subject to lender
00:31:22
approval speed of funding is subject to verifications and your bank's processing
00:31:25
times see cashnetusa.com for more details please leave a message hey it's me well
00:31:34
it's you San Diego you that is I'm here at the beach sun's out everything's looking up oh my gosh the food we love
00:31:43
the spice oh and oh that show was so fun sand in my shoes and all anyway wish you
00:31:49
I me we hope to see you soon discover the best you at San diego.org funded and part by San Diego tourism marketing
00:31:58
District assessment funds this is a message from sponsor Intuit Turbo Tax taxes was getting
00:32:04
frustrated by your forms now taxes is uploading your forms with a snap and a Turbo Tax expert will do your taxes for
00:32:11
you one who's backed by the latest tech which cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy all of
00:32:17
which makes it easy for you to get the most money back guaranteed get an expert now on turbotax.com only available with
00:32:24
TurboTax live full service see guaranteed details at [Music] turbotax.com all right cheers
00:32:44
mates thanks for joining us here in the garage tall hands in the air party to the people in the back windows to the
00:32:51
walls cheers Colonel cheers to you captain we're going to start on the day and question January 26th
00:33:00
2011 let's get right into it at 7:00 a.m. Ellen speaks with her mother around noon Ellen received a text from a friend
00:33:10
that says you're getting out early to which Ellen replies thank goodness so this is in regard to the school being
00:33:18
closed that day due to the weather which we now know at 1:15 p.m. Ellen Greenberg
00:33:25
left her job as the school Clos due to the severe weather so she's leaving at 1:15 p.m. she stops for gas on her way
00:33:33
home using her visa card at 2:30 she makes a call to a local restaurant this one's this marker is a little strange
00:33:43
here because she doesn't order anything we don't know what the call is in regards
00:33:50
to it could just be just find out if they're open or if they're still going to be delivering even with the snow
00:33:58
she could be planning on what are they going to do for dinner type situation and we'll call back with the order later
00:34:06
at 2:33 p.m. Ellen called someone this call lasted about 30 seconds this call was placed from her apartment and we do
00:34:15
know that she was doing conducting some work from home after being sent home early because she used her computer to
00:34:22
remotely enter grades for her students a little after 2:30 that day at 3:47 Ellen
00:34:32
sends her final text we can give a little bit of background here on this text from what I understand this text
00:34:40
was uh a back and forth with a friend of hers Alicia Young is the woman's name and the text seemed to go back and forth
00:34:50
for about 5 to 10 minutes in which Ellen is mentioning to her friend ongoing trouble at work
00:34:58
or ongoing trouble with her position as a teacher according to this friend and others they all agree saying it in
00:35:07
chorus that Ellen was experiencing a lot of stress and this was due to her work we should give a shout out too CNN has
00:35:15
done some great investigating reporting on this and I mean actual investigation on this case as well over the years at
00:35:23
4:45 p.m. Ellen's fiance Sam Goldberg left the couple's home we know this to be true because there they live in this
00:35:32
very modern apartment building and they have a gym fitness area in this apartment building and so we do have
00:35:41
security cameras that oh they are actually up and running um for this Cas surprise surprise yeah they're up and
00:35:49
running and we have surveillance from the apartment building which captures Sam walking toward the gym the on-site
00:35:57
gym location for the building later he's going to tell police that he went down to the
00:36:03
gym he believes it's 450 p.m. so let's say 445 to 450 p.m. and then uses the elliptical for about a half an hour
00:36:13
before he's going to return to the apartment another marker here is at 4:46 p.m. Ellen uses her laptop well if we
00:36:23
had more concise information on this case and again this is triple checked these sources for this timeline have all
00:36:31
been triple checked when did he leave that apartment because if you have a time stamp of
00:36:37
4:46 someone is using Ellen's laptop and Sam left at 4:45 that's a lot different
00:36:45
than if he left at 450 right just that matter of 5 minutes could mean the world in this case what we can say is between
00:36:54
4:45 and 450 p.m. he did leave the apartment what we can say is at 4:46 someone uses Ellen's laptop if it was
00:37:05
Ellen and Sam had already left the apartment then it would appear that she is alive and well after he exited their
00:37:13
apartment at 5:30 p.m. Sam exits the gym on the first floor of the Venice Loft Apartments building when he goes to try
00:37:22
to get back into his apartment according to Sam he says he couldn't enter the apartment because the security latch was
00:37:30
engaged from the inside despite using his key and banging on the door Ellen did not respond or unlock it so the lock
00:37:39
anybody that's stayed in a hotel or anybody that's ever used one of the chain locks on a door the best way to
00:37:47
describe this lock is it's it's toward the top portion of the door well above the handle and you simply flip over
00:37:58
the metal mechanism so that the door when unlocked regularly you can open it up just a
00:38:06
little bit like you would with a chain lock that would be up there it would open up just an inch or two but you
00:38:13
cannot open the door entirely so I've from the information I found here Captain some that's not
00:38:23
completely accurate with one another is some versions state that Sam was using a
00:38:29
traditional key and other versions state that it was more like a hotel where he had a key card to get in but then
00:38:36
couldn't open the door all the way because that security latch was engaged right from about 5:32 p.m. till 5:54
00:38:46
p.m. we have Sam who is trying to communicate with Ellen most sources say that he's just sending text I did find
00:38:57
at least one source that said he also emailed her but I could never find I could never
00:39:04
find the any information more about the emails but let's go through some of these text so over the course of about
00:39:13
22 minutes he sent her nine messages if we are to believe Sam's story that all these messages go to her phone from
00:39:24
Sam's phone while he's outside in the hallway trying to get into the apartment the apartment door is locked with the
00:39:31
security latch and she lay dead on their kitchen floor at this time if if everything is how he says it was so one
00:39:42
of the texts just simply says hello like question mark another says open the door
00:39:48
these are all very quick rapid texts then there's another one what are you doing one that says I'm getting pissed
00:39:55
hello question mark another says you better have an excuse the next text says what the [ __ ] next T text you have no
00:40:04
idea does the you have no idea one sound and I the I'm getting pissed and you have no idea sound a little threatening
00:40:11
to me those one sound a little threatening to me and so I had a little bit of a concern here but again I guess
00:40:18
we have to remind ourselves if in fact these texts are authentic we do know these texts are sent that's not a
00:40:25
question but if they are authentic meaning that they were sent In the Heat of the Moment and he is locked outside
00:40:32
of the door and does not know what's going on whether we agree with him being angered by the situation or not is
00:40:40
neither here nor there yeah I think in this case and maybe one of the reasons why it's so talked about or discussed is
00:40:48
because there's probably five or six points in this case that you could go round and round about and talk for talk
00:40:55
about for hours I mean first of all when you're looking at these cases you're going to look at
00:41:01
them through your own lens to me going to the gym for 30 minutes that's not in my
00:41:10
wheelhouse it's hard enough to get motivated to go to the gym if I'm going to go I'm staying longer than 30 minutes
00:41:20
but I've also never lived in this modern style apartment complex that has a gym facility on hand and so then you go well
00:41:31
I guess when I've gone to hotels I've used the gym and maybe it didn't take me as long I'm just going to get a quick
00:41:38
walk in or run or whatever you're trying to do and that's what he does with the L
00:41:43
the elliptical so then he comes back he is locked out whether he has his key on him
00:41:50
or not to me that doesn't matter because hey honey I'm going down to the gym for
00:41:57
quick quick workout he's back in about 30 minutes even if the door wasn't latch locked then where are you you you you're
00:42:08
you're supposed to let me in so if these text messages are false if this is staged part of the staging yeah to me
00:42:24
this is either just genius level staging because you have a dead individual by knife so then you go well
00:42:36
you're going to you're going to Stage text messages that paint you in a negative
00:42:42
light I almost think that if this was staged by a narcissist or a horrible piece of [ __ ] that the text messages
00:42:52
would read more like hey I can't get in are you okay hey what is happening you know I'm
00:43:01
concerned you're making me worry but I think he does what most people would do hey you're supposed to be in the
00:43:10
apartment what the f is going on like I'm sitting out here what's the first thing you do after going to the gym you
00:43:19
take a shower and you change your clothes but on top of that he's stuck outside in in the hallway where where is
00:43:26
he supped supposed to go mhm there could there could have been a thought if these
00:43:31
are legit texts there could be a thought in his head of did she somehow lock this
00:43:37
door and leave like what the hell is going on and because the door is latched he has to assume that she's in the
00:43:48
apartment because it's not impossible to leave your apartment and get that locked
00:43:56
to latch but it'd be very tricky or there would have to be some circumstance where if
00:44:03
you slam the door hard enough that maybe the latch locks on its own but we have nobody reporting that that's the case so
00:44:12
you you'd have to use some trickery to be able to get out of the apartment and and latch that door locked so in his
00:44:19
mind you're in you're inside and I look I just don't think this is an unreasonable Tech or I don't even think
00:44:28
this points to him in a in a horrible negative light of like I'm getting pissed off and I think when he what was
00:44:36
the last text that you read you have no idea I think that to me that's implying you have no idea how pissed off I am
00:44:44
right now oh yeah that's that's exactly the way I take it too and that's why I that's if so so reviewing other people's
00:44:54
concerns about the text reviewing other thoughts about his short workout I wanted to address these issues
00:45:03
right here because I don't find any problem with the 30 35 minute workout and I and I get what you're saying but I
00:45:12
agree with what you're saying as well right it's a large part of that is it's a matter of for those that Venture off
00:45:20
and go to a gym the captain's right it can take a lot of motivation and a lot of a lot of
00:45:27
Gusto to get your butt all the way to that gym and once you're there because you have to commute whether it be five
00:45:34
minutes 15 minutes or 20 or so you are a little more motivated to stay there and
00:45:39
kind of get things done now for those of you that have built your own gym in your
00:45:43
garage or your basement you know that hey sometimes if you got 15 minutes or 20 minutes and
00:45:50
you're kind of bored or you have a lot of energy uh you might go down there and and hit the bench for a quick 10 minutes
00:45:57
or or or do a exercise for a brief period of time he the gym is in the same building as him so I don't find any
00:46:07
question with the short amount of time at the gym I don't really find I don't have a big question mark about these
00:46:13
text messages as well because I think what people were trying to look into is his reaction okay so if he's reacting
00:46:21
this way and he's angered and he's threatening her you know you have no idea or I'm getting getting pissed right
00:46:28
if you look at that as a threat and you can I I would agree with that however I think what people were trying to look
00:46:36
for Within These text is does this tell us about their relationship does this tell us if he was abusive to her prior
00:46:45
does this give us any insight into how he conducts himself in that relationship well the main reason that I was bringing
00:46:52
up the questioning the 30 minute exercise is because I'm trying to point out that we have to be clear every time
00:47:01
that we're looking into these cases to recognize that we know we're looking at this case through our own lens so
00:47:09
sometimes we have to take this a step back and well and we have we have the added advantage of looking at this
00:47:18
retrospectively right and and here's what I mean by that because there are people that have great opinions that
00:47:25
said well my re action and again everything's not relative to how you conduct yourself or your personality but
00:47:33
I but it's been stated that well he wouldn't his reaction shouldn't it be more of concern and more of worry rather
00:47:41
than anger and here's where I'll put a little bit of spin on this I'm not saying his actions his his reaction is
00:47:50
is great or well thought out I'm simply saying I don't know that we can deduce anything real from these text
00:48:00
because what if she's locked them out in the past right that there would be nothing to me more aggravating than
00:48:09
having a home and not being 100% in control of when I can enter that home or not if she's locked them out before by
00:48:18
accident or because she was upset about something right or what have you maybe he's been in this situation before
00:48:27
where she and I'm not trying to victim blame here where maybe she overreacted or locked him out
00:48:33
unnecessarily and so he's he's kind of jumping to that conclusion and he's angered right away like what are you
00:48:40
doing I just went down to the gym for a bit so I don't think we can really figure a whole lot out here and I don't
00:48:46
know that we should really be concerned at any high level that he seems to be angered rather than worried because keep
00:48:55
in mind we are retrospectively looking at this we have the advantage of knowing that somebody searched out suicidal
00:49:03
terms on her computer prior to this if it were in fact Ellen that did this does he even know about that right if if he's
00:49:12
not seeing this side of her we have her friends and family saying that there was
00:49:17
a a change in her a great change in her in the winter of 2010 according to those
00:49:23
same people at least the fames told that it's not not it doesn't have anything to
00:49:28
do with the fiance was she able to hide and mask this from him and therefore he he wasn't worried right away he wasn't
00:49:35
concerned right away it was more of a an anger thing I that's that's what's missing so also you know we love going
00:49:43
through these timelines because they are Paramount to every case but what is missing from this case in my opinion is
00:49:53
what questions were asked early on in this investigation and did we ask the right questions
00:50:01
because with as much information and a wealth of information that there is out there about this case there are things
00:50:08
missing from this investigation there's information that is not there and I think that it's not there because the
00:50:16
these questions either weren't asked or they weren't asking the right questions because my first
00:50:22
concern as a detective if I found this information on her computer computer I want to know from Sam what was she what
00:50:31
how was she behaving to you did she did you notice a change in her as well and if you did why weren't you concerned
00:50:37
well and we hear from her family and we hear from friends this idea of I want to
00:50:43
leave this place maybe I can stay with you I want to come back home to me that's again indicative of something's
00:50:51
going wrong with her work but also something's going wrong with her living situation the relationship might be fine
00:50:58
but she just might not like that that apartment for whatever reason but is she communicating this with her fiance so we
00:51:09
got to point this out here because whatever happened has to go down either prior to him leaving the apartment or
00:51:19
upon his return because that's one thing that I think people that have analyzed this case are kind of missing there is
00:51:25
enough time upon his return that something could happened after the gym it's it's a very small window of time
00:51:32
but there is there is a window well no in the in these text messages then it's a different
00:51:40
light because if I come back from the gym and I'm locked out right and I'm a little upset I just I just finished my
00:51:49
workout I want to get in take a shower unwind for the day why is the door locked and this this is where the
00:51:58
investigation you have to turn over every stone you can't just simply look at this situation and go well it's
00:52:05
possible that she uh committed suicide so I'm not going to look into these other things is there any evidence that
00:52:11
she was in the shower is it possible that she accidentally locked the latch and then went into the shower this
00:52:20
making him angry do we have any signs of abuse in the relationship do we have you see what I'm
00:52:30
saying because is is this enough of a reason for them to get into an argument and then she's stabbed 20 times and dies
00:52:41
maybe if this guy is hot-tempered because what we do know is he can't get into the apartment so he has to go down
00:52:49
to security this is this is a very odd scenario because we have this murdered individual or an
00:53:00
individual that committed suicide and we can't really put the onus on that there
00:53:07
could be another killer because not only do we have cameras that actually are working mhm but we have security guards
00:53:16
or coner which a lot of times in these buildings they're one and the same yes and we have so we have cameras working
00:53:26
and we have security so he has to go down and talk to security and to say hey I I can't get
00:53:33
into my apartment the the latch is locked yeah and so that is the scenario here right we have e either either he
00:53:41
killed his fiance or she killed herself there's no alternative suspect here really to be discussed that that we
00:53:52
can believe at this time right there's never been anybody everse pointed toward and then the fact that there are
00:53:59
surveillance security cameras is highly suggestive that it is one of these two scenarios so I want to go through some
00:54:09
information here that is Paramount to the timeline itself so we do know that Sam's phone is
00:54:21
silent from 3:40 p.m. until about 5 : p.m. on the day that Ellen died now we already mentioned that we know
00:54:34
that he left the apartment sometime between 4:45 and 450 to go down to the gym for a
00:54:42
quick workout on the elliptical so that means there's no activity on his phone for approximately 1 hour prior to him
00:54:50
leaving for the on-site gym some people wonder if this is suspicious it could be I mean it means that we have
00:54:59
about over an hour that we know that the both are in the apartment at the same time and he's not occupied at least by
00:55:05
his phone so what could he be busy doing I should we should point out though too
00:55:10
that from his phone data that's been collected there was a gap the prior day from 400 p.m. to about 700 p.m. so this
00:55:18
may be part of his routine as well that he's just not busy on his phone between these particular hours now he's active
00:55:26
again at 5:30 that's because according to his story he can't get into the apartment that is when he starts texting
00:55:32
his girlfriend and that we know that those texts it's about 22 minutes over the course of 22 minutes so that would
00:55:40
be from 3:30 I'm sorry from 5:32 p.m. to 5:54 p.m. now kind of backing up that this corroborates a portion of his story
00:55:53
or at least gives some ear Witnesses because we do have neighbors that say between the time frame of 5:30 and 6:00
00:56:02
p.m. on that day we did hear Sam shouting out Ellen's name several times what's interesting about that to me is I
00:56:13
can infer from the situation that if if earwitness can hear one thing they probably can hear most things right so
00:56:21
they're not hearing screams of bloody murder at the same time either so it would appear to me based off of this
00:56:29
information The Limited information is that if he did it something happened prior to him leaving
00:56:37
that apartment if you're going to plan out a murder and you know how to get out of the apartment and latch that lock
00:56:47
that seems to be only able to be locked from the inside then just think about that for a second I'm going to commit
00:56:55
this murder nobody can see inside the apartment so as long as nobody hears her I can simply
00:57:06
go out the door make sure it latches go for a quick workout when I come back the
00:57:13
door's locked go to security hey my door's locked I can't get in so therefore it's impossible that I killed
00:57:22
her because the door was locked yeah there there was a statement that he made that
00:57:29
he believed that either she was taking a nap or maybe hopped in the shower like you had said or was busy working on her
00:57:39
laptop with her headphones on right and so if if that truly is what he thought then he thought this was just some kind
00:57:47
of accident and then if that makes sense that he's getting angered by her silly mistake but right but again the problem
00:57:55
is if you have ear witnesses to him trying to get her attention trying to get her
00:58:03
to unlock the door which I'm guessing even if he's pissed off he's like well I got
00:58:10
neighbors so he's not going to be super loud the the problem with him attacking her is that we have no ear witnesses to
00:58:18
a to any kind of an attack if he was staging it though why not make a bigger spectacle about the door being locked
00:58:26
well he went down to security and said it's locked and the and and he knows that's going to be on
00:58:34
film no I I know that I'm just saying I I think that if he were thinking this through and really wanted to Stage some
00:58:42
things that this he could have made a bigger spectacle about the door being locked and and I do have I'm not I'm not
00:58:50
going to lie I do have a problem with his statement of well maybe she was in the shower maybe she was taking a nap
00:58:56
maybe she was working with her headphones on again one of the things that I'm trying to point out here is I
00:59:01
don't know the extent of this investigation and I question the level of investigating that was conducted during
00:59:11
that investigation right and I think that anyone should because there's a lot of question marks on their investigation
00:59:19
air quotes investigation one of the questions I would have asked to Sam have you been locked out before two have you
00:59:29
did you know she was experiencing these anxiety and emotional problems did you have
00:59:35
concern and three you're actually able to open up that door even though it's just an inch or
00:59:43
so what did you hear could you when you're texting her or trying to call her phone did you hear her phone ringing did
00:59:50
you hear a sound notification that she had received a text well my other question would be if you have been
00:59:57
locked out before were were you able to get in without getting help well and let's take that a step further you had
01:00:06
said prior that it might be incredibly difficult to lock the door either by accident or from the
01:00:14
outside but you leave you're leaving that as a possibility so let's pretend that that is a possibility if that is a
01:00:23
possibility that's why I'm asking that last question what told you that she was inside of the apartment Sam I I get it
01:00:32
that maybe it was just a a gut feeling or it was the only thing in the moment that seemed logical but I and I would
01:00:39
accept that answer but I want to know was there was there further indication to you Sam that she absolutely was
01:00:46
inside that apartment before because it it goes from text messages to busting down the door to breaking into the
01:00:54
apartment did he check to see if her car was still at the apartments right I mean
01:01:01
I also think it's odd too cuz I believe he reached out to her mother at some point during this before he broke into
01:01:09
the house is that a common thing how much communication on the regular did he have
01:01:16
with her mother some people are become very close with you know this is going to become his mother-in-law is this
01:01:23
somebody that he's become close with that he feels comfortable texting or calling for little things because if I
01:01:31
got locked out of my apartment unless my future mother-in-law has a key to get in
01:01:38
I don't see any reason to contact her now I could see well I busted in the door to get in the apartment and I
01:01:45
didn't find her in the apartment so then I called you cuz cuz that might throw up
01:01:51
some red flags in my brain so that is a little unclear to me here Captain the information I have says that he is calls
01:02:00
Sandy after breaking into the apartment but again that might not be 100% accurate that's just the information I
01:02:08
have but what is interesting too is that there is a call from Sam to outside sources that we don't we do not have
01:02:19
a a marker on our timeline for so do at an unknown time Sam Goldberg called caman schwarzman to let him know that he
01:02:31
was locked out of his apartment so what we can do we can infer based on the sequence of events that this call had to
01:02:38
take place before 6: p.m. before breaking into the the apartment and after 5:30 once he's
01:02:48
aware that he's locked out this to me I'm with you I I think that the phone call to the outside
01:02:57
person at this point doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me he calls Cayman schwarzman and again we don't have
01:03:06
exactly a time on this now based off of what Cayman caman later says again we can kind of figure out the when this
01:03:15
call took place because he says that he suggested to Sam why don't you go down to security and ask the door man for
01:03:23
help so at 6 p.m. Sam does go downstairs to the lobby requesting help from doorman Phil hon the doorman tells Sam
01:03:33
that it is against policy for him to break down the doors but he can call Ellen for him
01:03:41
so this on these timelines here Captain one another part that I've not appreciated is how brief this statement
01:03:49
is because it s this almost implies that he goes down there and immediately is like we need to break down this door
01:03:56
I've reviewed some other information from this Phil hon and from others that were there that day and they they said
01:04:02
that it was much more of a conversation than than right away like requesting that we break down a door it's like
01:04:08
right hey is there any way for us to get in he asked if there was some kind of tool that they could use to undo the
01:04:14
lock from the outside when all those options were exhausted is when the conversation turned to breaking down the
01:04:22
door right and I think this is important because we have individuals that don't know him personally and they're not
01:04:31
saying hey this guy comes down he's huffing and puffing and seems to be having some anxiety or he's not
01:04:41
panicking they're saying don't know the guy but the way I read the situation is this guy's locked down and he's just
01:04:48
trying to figure out a way to get back in at 6:07 and then again at 6:10 p.m. Ellen cell phone receives two phone
01:04:57
calls this is from the Venice Lofts apartments and of course nobody answers so they did as they said they
01:05:04
said well we can at least try to call her the door man is offering to call the police at 6:14 Sam Goldberg calls camon
01:05:14
schwarzman again this time to tell him that the security guard could not help him get into the
01:05:20
apartment at 6:23 p.m. Sam Goldberg is seen on surveillance camera entering the elevator at 6:26 p.m. he answers a phone
01:05:32
call from his cousin and uncle okay so schwarzman is his cousin camon schwartzman's
01:05:40
father is an attorney his cousin and uncle on this phone call tell him you should call
01:05:48
911 at 6:28 Sam Goldberg is seen on surveillance going upstairs at 6:30 this is where things get a little
01:06:00
dicey at 6:30 it is said that James schwarzman the uncle and his son the cousin instructed Sam to force his way in to
01:06:13
the door and to break into the apartment Sam says that he stayed on the phone when he broke broke the door and forced
01:06:22
his way into the apartment and then seconds later names and his cousin came and said that they heard Sam scream to
01:06:31
which then they instructed him to call 911 there are timelines and plenty of Articles out there that say that this
01:06:41
marker isn't accurate okay not that he didn't break down the door at about 6:30 not that he
01:06:48
didn't call 911 shortly after the statements that are made is that the timing is off just enough that he wasn't
01:06:57
actually on the phone with anybody when he forced his way into the apartment to me this is such a a finite amount of
01:07:06
time such a small window I don't know that we can fully inaccurately State matter of factly one way or another if
01:07:15
he was on the phone with these two at the time that he busted the door or not I mean we're talking this is really
01:07:22
breaking down it by second by second if you start looking at these timeline comparisons I frankly don't know that
01:07:31
that means anything it does to me it doesn't Point me One Direction or the other murder or suicide if he happened
01:07:38
to be on the phone with anybody at all when he busted into the apartment not at that very moment yeah I don't think it's
01:07:44
definitive but if I was talking to my cousin and my uncle and I didn't think it was like that big of a deal I'm just
01:07:50
trying to get into my apartment and they tell me to bust down the door while I'm
01:07:55
hanging up the phone and trying to bust down the door but I think by if I'd have to lean one
01:08:04
way or the other by having your cousin and your uncle which is a which is a lawyer on the phone with you when you
01:08:13
find your dead girlfriend to me that's leans towards staging yes I question why he's calling anybody outside of that
01:08:22
building in that moment at all regardless of who if it was her mother we know he talked to his cousin and his
01:08:31
uncle I just that's not where my head would go I if if anybody outside of that building needed to be made aware of that
01:08:38
situation in my mind in that moment would be police and that's it yeah but it's establishing his whereabout and
01:08:45
it's establishing basically his demeanor at that time so or is it asking an attorney
01:08:52
for help before the cops get get there right and again because it's family members we don't know what he said to
01:09:01
them or what he didn't we don't know but even just the calls to the cousin or if
01:09:08
it's a call to her mother or it's talking to the security guard you're you're establishing your whereabouts
01:09:15
you're establishing your demeanor and that's essentially establishing an alibi and so if it's staging this this guy uh
01:09:25
is pretty sophisticated at 6:36 p.m. emergency responders arrive on the scene and at 6:40 she's pronounced dead she
01:09:33
had 20 stab wounds with 10 of the wounds to the back of her neck area in the back
01:09:40
of her head at 7:30 p.m. James and camian schwarzman arrived at the Venice Lofts
01:09:48
Apartments this after they say that having received multiple calls from Sam Goldberg
01:09:55
the medical examiner is requested at 7:31 so at the scene at this time we would have police on the scene one thing
01:10:06
that's troubling here is of record on the record there's we don't have detectives showing up to the scene until
01:10:14
8:20 approximately 8:20 p.m. and the reason why I'm citing that here Captain is one it was like eventually once they
01:10:24
all arrived it was like six detectives on the scene but I think it's key here to point
01:10:30
out yes we have police here yes we have the deant is here yes we have the person
01:10:36
that owns the apartment with the deant is there we have some of the key people but what we also have at the scene 50 5
01:10:46
minutes prior to detectives being on the scene is an attorney and the cousin of the fiance
01:10:55
[Music] so much more to get to so many thoughts so many opinions stick around for part
01:11:08
two and until then be good be kind and don't litter [Music] stic arthritis symptoms can be
01:11:51
unpredictable I had joint pain and I couldn't move like I used to too I needed relief I got
01:11:59
centic it helped me move better centic seenu map is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active
01:12:07
psoriatic arthritis don't use if you're allergic to centic before starting get checked for tuberculosis an increased
01:12:13
risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial
01:12:18
fungal or viral infections some were fatal tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers sweats
01:12:24
chills muscle leg or cough had a vaccine or plan to or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen
01:12:30
serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur learn more at 1844 centic or cenex.com
01:12:38
[Music] ask your dermatologist about centic [Music]