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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details [Music]
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] down [Music] when police arrived on the scene shortly
00:02:44
before 11 p.m. on December 8th 1980 John lennin was in such bad shape that they could not wait for the
00:02:54
ambulance to arrive and the officers scooped up John lennin and put them in the the back of a police squad car to
00:03:02
rush him off to Roosevelt Hospital because of the location of the bullet holes they had to lie him in the back of
00:03:11
the vehicle face down so that Jon would not choke on his own blood John was wheeled into the emergency room by this
00:03:20
point he had lost about 80% of his blood and virtually had no pulse at all doctors and nurses were looking for a
00:03:30
way to save this man's life so they made an incision in the left chest and separated the ribs and found a very
00:03:39
large amount of blood they looked for an injury to the heart and they used by hand to try to pump and massage the
00:03:49
heart to bring this man back to life but every time they pumped most of what they
00:03:55
pumped simply just came out blood out of the holes it was totally ineffective although seven Medics tried desperately
00:04:04
to revive him John Lenin was finally pronounced dead and at 11:15 p.m. on ABC Monday Night Football Howard coel
00:04:15
announced Jon's death to the world and you heard that clip in the trailer for part one of our coverage of John
00:04:25
Lennon's case you have the most famous man in the world dead assassinated by Mark David Chapman a guy that nobody
00:04:34
knows so now everybody wants to know who is Mark David Chapman and why did he do
00:04:39
this yeah the suspect arrested as you said Captain was Mark David Chapman 25 years old from Hawaii he was under heavy
00:04:48
guard and taken to the tombs prison in downtown Manhattan to await arraignment which would take place Tuesday morning
00:04:57
he apparently stalked John lennin for 3 days days he told police he had a license for the gun that he used to kill
00:05:04
John lennin which was a Charter Arms 38 caliber revolver but was only able to produce a bill of sale for the gun
00:05:12
purchased in Honolulu Hawaii 6 weeks before the shooting Chapman told police he was annoyed that lennin had only
00:05:20
scribbled his autograph on the album police said that although Chapman gave different stories to the detectives
00:05:26
about the slang he was emphatic that he knew he was shooting The 40-Year-Old John Lennon David Gaffin president of
00:05:35
Gaffin records read a statement issued by Yoko the night of Lennon's death saying quote John loved and prayed for
00:05:44
the human race please do the same for him all right let's dive in to who is Mark David Chapman Mark Chapman was born
00:05:53
May 10th 1955 in Fort Worth Texas but he grew up in decanter Georgia in a pretty
00:06:00
typical situation living with Mom Dad and then his little sister who was seven years younger than Mark the major
00:06:08
difference from most other typical living situations for a child is simple his father David Chapman was a Staff
00:06:16
Sergeant in the US Air Force and was verbally and physically abusive to both Mark and his mother Mark said he was in
00:06:26
constant fear of his father so when at home he would spend most of his time locking himself away in his bedroom
00:06:34
during this time of self-isolation Mark developed Imaginary Friends imaginary people and even characters Mark Chapman
00:06:42
began to fantasize about having king-like power over a group of imaginary little people who lived in the
00:06:49
walls of his bedroom Mark like most teenagers was a big Beetle fan growing up he attended Columbia High School in
00:06:59
decanter Georgia and at the young age of 14 he was using drugs and skipping classes at school there's actually some
00:07:08
recordings of Mark playing guitar and singing Beetle songs in 1971 Chapman became a born again
00:07:17
Christian this like several other influences in Chapman's life will go beyond that of a personal interest or
00:07:25
even the level of faith in this situation Chapman would develop several obsessions throughout the course of his
00:07:34
life and then one has to wonder perhaps was the Beatles one of his first obsessions M all right on to the next
00:07:43
Obsession if you will here Captain a friend recommended to mark that he read JD salinger's book The Catcher in the Ry
00:07:52
this is a pretty famous book for our younger audience who might not be aware of this what I'm going to call a rare
00:08:01
situation this is a book that has both been banned from some school libraries as well as assigned reading in other
00:08:09
schools right the novel eventually took on a great personal significance for Mark David Chapman to the extent that he
00:08:19
reportedly wished to model his life after the book's protagonist Holden colfield I think that is putting it
00:08:28
lightly other sources say that he believed at some point or during portions of his life that he was Holden
00:08:36
colfield his early adult life was filled with depression he moved several times and each time this was hundreds of miles
00:08:44
away from the last place where he lived he went from Georgia to Chicago and back
00:08:50
to Georgia again he started having suicidal thoughts and began to feel like a failure he dropped out of college
00:08:58
after just one semester he then worked as a security guard this was an armed security position so he had to learn how
00:09:07
to use and operate a firearm with a decent amount of success before this there was no indication that Mark had
00:09:15
any experience with guns to qualify for the position Mark needed to score at least 50 points on his security and
00:09:24
Firearms exam Mark scored an 88 this after taking a weeklong training course well a little bit before this and and
00:09:33
during this time Mark was always working with children I worked at camps uh worked with a group that had um that
00:09:42
Vietnam refugees where he worked with the children but he would reference a lot that he even though he's getting
00:09:51
older he wasn't growing up he wasn't going to become a grownup he was still going to have the innocence of a child
00:09:58
uh and that would make him closer to the character Holden yeah there were times especially the last week or so that he
00:10:06
worked at one camp in particular where people would later say that he just talked constantly about the book The
00:10:14
Catcher in the Rye in 1977 Chapman moved to Hawaii now we have to understand that this
00:10:22
guy he is slowly spiraling out of control if he ever was in control to begin with he is not in my opinion
00:10:30
moving to Hawaii so much so with a job lined up or a place to live or really even any plan at all this to me Captain
00:10:40
simply looks like a guy who is running away well okay there's there's a story from one of the campers saying that he
00:10:50
was just this lovable guy they I think they called him like Nemo for a while and then they'd call him the pi Piper
00:10:57
and they had all these different names for him and and supposedly he was just excellent with children mhm but then
00:11:05
something happened where the the kids noticed it more than the parents that there was like this shift and there was
00:11:12
this girl that was really close to him and and she's on record as saying that he came to visit her and their parents
00:11:19
were like hey go give him a hug and she's like no there's something different about him so this going to
00:11:27
Hawaii again it's reported multiple ways some people say he went there with no plan I think he's come out and said well
00:11:34
I went there with the plan of I'm going to go there uh take the money I have gamble it away and if I don't win then
00:11:44
I'm just going to kill myself yeah it looks like when he first gets to Hawaii that he's living in a hotel off of his
00:11:51
meager savings that he had at the time and he is falling deeper and deeper into depression and became suicidal Chapman
00:12:01
eventually attempted suicide by connecting a hose to his car's exhaust pipe you know start up the car roll up
00:12:08
the windows and attempting to kill himself by way of carbon monoxide exfix but the hose melted and the
00:12:18
attempt failed right well and I also believe a fisherman came up and knocked on his window what happens here Captain
00:12:26
is this is probably the first thing that the first time that I could see where somebody recognizes that there is
00:12:33
something not right with this young man right and a psychiatrist admitted Chapman to I believe the name was Castle
00:12:42
Memorial Hospital this for his clinical depression he didn't stay very long there now in
00:12:52
1978 Mark Chapman went on a six week trip around the world this vacation was partly inspired by the film Around the
00:13:02
World in 80 Days he then began a relationship with his travel agent this is a Japanese American woman named
00:13:10
Gloria Abe who he married in June of 1979 I also believe at this time he was actually working at the hospital yeah
00:13:19
that's absolutely right he went back to work in the hospital at this time though
00:13:24
and this is one thing that I always fear with people who suffer from depr people that especially to this level to
00:13:31
the point of where this guy is suicidal right and I mean from a young age he's imagining things that aren't real he's
00:13:39
living in a different reality he takes on not just this Hospital job but even shortly after the hospital job he starts
00:13:47
working jobs that are very isolated he's a Solitary Man solitary position working
00:13:55
by himself this is not the camp where he's you know in Chicago playing guitar and singing songs for kids and and as
00:14:02
you said he was loved by the kids that that he counseled at the camp he was well-liked by his co-workers he thrived
00:14:12
in that situation I think what we have here is in late 1979 he goes on to work this job at the
00:14:21
hospital well that sounds like he's going to be working around a bunch of people no he worked as a printer off in
00:14:26
a space by himself for large parts of large portions of his shifts right and then he gets into some kind of verbal
00:14:36
altercation on a couple of occasions with different co-workers this leads to him being fired it sounds like they even
00:14:43
took him back briefly he quits he goes on then to take another security job this time it's a night security job so
00:14:50
he's by himself even more at this time so well let's be clear when he marries this girl she thinks oh this guy is
00:14:59
amazing they get married quickly he's physically abusive towards her we get married and he's amazing and then boom
00:15:06
he's not amazing anymore yeah and she was she really was like this is my worst nightmare because he she claims that he
00:15:15
showed no signs of being abusive towards her or or really towards anybody else other than maybe himself until they got
00:15:26
married yeah this is where it's really like after the the wedding as soon as these two are married you
00:15:34
would think you would hope that that relationship that this man who thinks of himself as a failure who thinks of
00:15:41
himself as a loner who finally has someone who accepts him for who he is maybe this would be the jumping off
00:15:49
point that he needs to getting some help to feeling loved yeah and I think he had
00:15:57
some friends or at least some acquaintances that were worried about him but more worried about his
00:16:03
depression not not worried that he'd hurt somebody else cuz he did seem like a a kind person and I think also if you
00:16:12
know somebody for a little bit of a time you go what did you used to do well I worked with children for years and I I
00:16:19
worked with uh Vietnam refugees and I and I um you know counseled kids at at camps I mean they all everybody that
00:16:29
knew him said he had a very gentle disposition so after the marriage he starts working these isolated solitary
00:16:37
jobs he's having a hard time holding down a job he begins drinking heavily and this further develops his depression
00:16:45
as well as some of his obsessions and these major obsessions at this time in his life include his favorite book The
00:16:52
Catcher in the Ry and John Lennon in September of 1980 he wrote a letter to a friend which
00:17:01
stated quote I'm going nuts he signed the letter The Catcher in the r in October of
00:17:09
1980 Mark David Chapman quits his job and on his final shift at that job he signs out on his time card with the name
00:17:21
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[Music] 2023 for I guess the first few weeks I was just in a dream kind of thing I mean
00:20:01
it just didn't seem real you know as reality sunk in it left Gloria wondering what happened to the life she had
00:20:09
dreamed of when she first met Mark David Chapman in 1978 she saw him as a sort of a night
00:20:15
and shining armor she did she did Jim Gaines is one of the only reporters to have interviewed Gloria
00:20:23
Chapman he says she spoke lovingly about her engagement they were walking on the
00:20:29
beach and Mark said to Gloria would you marry me and she was just ecstatic and she described it to me as
00:20:38
the happiest day of her life um Mark never did perhaps that was a glimpse into the
00:20:45
misery and she says abuse that soon followed I don't remember what I said but I must said something sarcastic or
00:20:52
something and it hit me real hard like on my ear and it really kind of sent me and you know my ears are Ming and stuff
00:21:00
MH I had to sit down so bad glorious naive dreams of Happily Ever After vanished all
00:21:10
together the only place you could go for privacy was in the bathroom I just go in
00:21:15
there lock the door and just cry you know and just say you know I can't take this you know how long am we going to be
00:21:21
like this you knowable why do you do you think she stayed with him all these years she was
00:21:31
faithful it was a virtue you obeyed virtues she was trying to be a good wife in an impossible
00:21:40
situation in October of 1980 Mark David Chapman went to New York City with the intention of killing John Lennon during
00:21:51
this trip Chapman was inspired by the film Ordinary People to stop his plans to which he then went to Atlanta and
00:22:00
then he went back to Hawaii his movements I'm not going to lie to you Captain are a little confusing to me
00:22:07
during this period because we have him moving around quite a bit and we he's kind of coming in and out of the life of
00:22:16
his wife during this time mind you when he is around her he's talking gibberish and nonsense to her he's saying things
00:22:26
that just seem well they seem nuts to the point where she's saying you've got to get some help Chapman would later say
00:22:35
that he told his wife he intended to kill John Lennon he says he went so far as to show her the gun and the
00:22:43
ammunition right he also says that he was again stopped from time to time by what he would call signs one of these
00:22:54
signs was that he said that he saw on the TV people talking about how one should not kill if you believe in God if
00:23:02
you follow God you should not kill you should not harm other people he also said another sign was that he was that
00:23:10
his wife had placed a sign on a wall in where they lived in their home that said
00:23:18
Thou shalt not kill you typically see this when people who have completely gone off the rails they are look to do
00:23:28
something horrible it's weird though Captain because as far gone as I think Mark
00:23:34
David Chapman was at this point he seems to be fully aware of what he is intending to do is a very bad and
00:23:41
harmful thing yeah I think it's interesting that his movement in New York the first time we don't know
00:23:50
exactly where he went what he did we don't know exactly what happened when he went back to Atlanta we don't know
00:23:57
exactly what he did did when he went back to Hawaii right and but he keeps saying he was looking for signs he was
00:24:03
looking for something to stop him from doing what he intended to Doh this would end up with him traveling
00:24:12
back to New York City arriving on December 6th 1980 but New York's going to be an interesting place because if
00:24:21
you read the book Catcher And The Ry it ends in New York so not only does he have a destination on who he wants to
00:24:32
kill he has a destination spot which just happens to be the same spot that that his victim lives in it seems like
00:24:40
he was intending to live out portions of that book and with him he has a list a list of people that uh I'm assuming it's
00:24:52
a hit list people that he wanted to kill yeah his whole thought was that because
00:24:58
of the book the book is telling people look people are phony and that that Holden is not phony and so you if you
00:25:06
want to be so basically he wants to kill these people that are phon phony to basically have them be um I guess um a
00:25:17
warning to others like this is what happens to you if you're phony and Chapman he basically
00:25:25
as we said earlier spent a about 3 days out front of the Dakota I best I guess the best word for
00:25:33
it is stalking John Lennon waiting to see John Lennon and he would meet and talk with
00:25:40
other people who were hoping to catch a glimpse of the Star as well maybe get an
00:25:45
autograph as well he would talk and chat with some of these other people while he
00:25:49
was waiting but it wasn't until Monday on December 8th when he would actually get to see John Lennon yeah what's so
00:25:57
crazy is he was actually going through the book and seeing what Holden did and he was basically doing the same thing
00:26:07
all Holden went here so now I got to go here and one of the things was um he he went to Central Park to ask cab drivers
00:26:18
about the birds because it's something that Holden did in the book he also got um hired a sex worker to go to his his
00:26:28
hotel and and in the book Holden doesn't have sex with the sex worker so that's the same thing that Mark David Chapman
00:26:37
did and then he he paid the sex worker double it just it's just very strange he was he was almost following this like
00:26:45
blueprint that the book laid out for him also in that list that you were talking
00:26:50
about earlier again it's one of those things where people say there's 50 names on it
00:26:56
and people speculate who was on it but it seems like the main people were John lennin uh Johnny Carson Ronald Reagan
00:27:06
and Paul McCartney yeah that list is a little The Hit List let's call it is a little
00:27:14
difficult because this is a case and we say case but really there's this whole story that and so little of it involves
00:27:24
the actual murder of John lennen it's been well documented John Lennon's life of 40 years uh The Beatles their their
00:27:35
career their success all well documented Mark David Chapman he is well documented
00:27:41
because he's the man that's known to be the guy that killed one of the most famous musicians of all time right and
00:27:49
so where we talk about list you know I see I I believe David Bowie said that hey I was next on that list I was second
00:27:58
on the list and what we have here is the reaction is is bizarre because it's unlike most of the crimes and most of
00:28:10
the murders that we have covered here in the garage be it if they're solved or unsolved Mark David Chapman after he
00:28:18
carried out his I'm using air quotes here Mission he puts down the gun puts down
00:28:25
his coat surrenders to the police starts thumbing through his book of The Catcher
00:28:31
in the Ry and as you just pointed out and I think the best way to say it and to describe his time in New York is
00:28:40
through Chapman's own words where he said you know I was living through the pages of The Catcher in the Ry right I
00:28:50
was living the book the book was living through me during that time one story I want to go back to the
00:28:57
David Bowie story real quick here when in reference to The Hit List it's a very interesting story because David Bowie
00:29:07
said he was second on the list and that he was attending a Broadway production of the Elephant Man this would be the
00:29:17
day after lenen was killed right Bowie believes well he part of this he probably knows but Bowie his
00:29:27
that John and Yoko were going to sit with him in the front row that night at the at the Elephant Man right and that
00:29:40
Mark Chapman had managed to buy a ticket to sit next to all three of them so picture four seats here David
00:29:49
Bowie says that night the night after John lennin was killed there were three empty seats in the front row next to me
00:29:57
and he believes that it was going to be John Lenin Yoko Ono and Mark David Chapman who were to occupy those seats
00:30:04
that might have gave Chapman the opportunity to kill all three of these people now I believe it has been stated
00:30:13
in at certain places that that Chapman chose Lenin other over his other targets out of convenience
00:30:23
that he was easier to get to possibly and that may be the truth but most of what I could find and it's my own
00:30:32
personal belief I think John lennin was at the top of his list well yeah first of all we we know for a fact that he had
00:30:39
a a little bit of obsession with them when he was younger that's why he learned how to play guitar we have
00:30:46
evidence of him singing Beetles songs we have evidence that he had the Beatles haircut for a while we have his wife
00:30:55
saying that he talked about killing John lennin we have him signing out from work
00:31:00
as John lennin um we also have friends of his or acquaintances of his saying you know
00:31:08
every now and then he would talk bad about people and he talked bad about John Lennon called him a phony all the
00:31:14
time saying that he could he could do more that he's you know so rich but he could give to these um Charities and
00:31:22
he's not doing enough well and he was verbally angry many years after the fact about Lenin's more popular than Jesus
00:31:31
comments from back in 1966 right he had said time and time again to several people can you believe
00:31:37
that that man actually said that right what gives him the right that he that he believes he's bigger or more popular
00:31:46
than Jesus yeah and I think you know the big why why all this stuff happened I I
00:31:52
think there's multiple reasons and I think Mark had many reasons in his head and I
00:31:59
think like you said access but again there's no proof that he would have murdered anybody else I mean he
00:32:08
killed John and he had just the same amount of opportunity to kill Yoko if he wanted to and he and he chose not to
00:32:18
correct and he chose not to flee the area he totally could have got away I mean New
00:32:24
York uh he's not from there right nobody would have a clue who who this guy was you shoot John Lennon and you
00:32:34
take off down the street and if you can get away because you're on foot if nobody stops you or people are afraid to
00:32:42
stop you cuz you have a gun he could have got away and flew back to Hawaii before they even knew who it who it was
00:32:50
well and we talked earlier about Mark Chapman looking for signs looking for something to to stop him he said that on
00:32:59
this second trip back to New York City that he believed he couldn't kill lenen on his own he didn't have the strength
00:33:08
to do it so he says that he invoked the spirit of the devil and he did what he believed were devil worshiping
00:33:16
ceremonies by himself trying to ask the devil to help him kill John Lenin yeah and looking for signs he says when he
00:33:28
finally met lennen lennen gives him the autograph he's waiting around during that day on the eth he met two other
00:33:36
people and had conversations with them one of them was a man by the name of Paul GES Paul GES was somebody who
00:33:47
frequently would stand outside of the Dakota hoping to snap a photo of John lennin he even had his picture taken
00:33:54
with John lennin in November and he is there talking with Chapman Chapman he was standing next to Chapman when
00:34:03
Chapman got the autograph on the cover of the Double Fantasy album he was the guy that snapped the photo of Lenin
00:34:12
signing the autograph where you can see Chapman over Lennon's left shoulder yeah
00:34:18
Chapman said years later that he told this man that he met Paul GES hey he's got a come back sometime now mind you
00:34:28
after the autograph Lennon takes off in his his limo and he says hey he's got to
00:34:32
come back sometime you should wait around and get your album autographed right they waited around for a little
00:34:39
bit of time and at some point Paul says you know I waited long enough I'm going to I'm just going to head home I'll get
00:34:46
it another day let's keep that in mind and then take it a step further Chapman said that
00:34:53
he met a woman outside of the Dakota that day and he had asked her out on a date well I I actually think that she
00:35:01
was there CU like we said Mark David Chapman were was outside the Dakota multiple days I think they actually met
00:35:08
the day before and then he saw her again the day of and they started kind of talking about like oh well we we should
00:35:16
go grab something to eat or something yeah he says that he asked her out on a date to which she said no or said she
00:35:25
wasn't going to go for what ever reason Chapman says that had either of those interactions with either of those
00:35:34
individuals worked out differently he probably wouldn't have killed he would not have killed John Lenin on December
00:35:40
8th 1980 he said but he was not never going to stop I don't he said if Paul would have stuck around to get the
00:35:48
autograph if Paul would have been there when Lenin came back he wouldn't have shot him he also said if he would have
00:35:55
gone out on the date he would have left before Lenin would had returned and he would not have had the opportunity to
00:36:01
shoot him on the eighth but you're exactly right he said those two individuals should not feel bad because
00:36:09
I would have then just killed Jon the next day yeah or some other time I mean like you said he was in New York for a
00:36:18
period Then he left New York and then he just kept making these trips and he was
00:36:23
going to eventually find him somewhere and if it wasn't John I believe he would have killed somebody else on that list
00:36:30
like you said if he would have got to New York and somebody said oh well you know uh you know John's back in England
00:36:36
you know John Lennon's back in England for a couple months he might have went just to the next person on the list I
00:36:43
think he had this like determination he had this this like you said how he would create fake
00:36:52
characters that he felt like if he did this that he he was accomplishing something well of course John Lennon's
00:37:00
one of the most famous people in the world if he kills that person he will obtain a certain level of that person's
00:37:12
Fame right at least that's what he believed and unfortunately to this day 40 years later we all know his name
00:37:22
because of his actions but it's so weird to me because the whole idea is like oh
00:37:28
well John Lennon's phony and and one could make that argument right alongside Mark David Chapman yes here's this guy
00:37:38
that talked about peace and and love and all this stuff but was abusive towards his first wife maybe abusive towards his
00:37:46
his oldest son right uh a guy that had some infidelity issues possibly his wife had
00:37:54
some infidelity issues and they're talking about you know uh love is the answer and and all you need is love and
00:38:02
and and no war and all these things and and having these um publicity stunts that yes they were I guess charitable
00:38:14
but was it also just to make Lenin a bigger star hey we got married we're going to go on honeymoon and we know
00:38:23
that the paparazzi is going to be there so we do a bed end but isn't that just doing a whole week
00:38:30
of drawing attention to yourself yes you have a cause peace not war but I think those are the things that Mark found
00:38:40
phony you know you didn't have you don't have to do a protest that way to bring upon the attention to
00:38:47
yourself but at the same time you you sit there and go okay well I could see why somebody would go look at this giant
00:38:54
icon preaching on the the stuff but he's preaching it to everybody but not living
00:39:00
it himself and at times is a is a junkie but then the whole message is look who it's coming from Mark David
00:39:11
Chapman that believes he is a character in a book you can't even live your own life you're such a
00:39:19
phony that you don't even have an identity until you take on ident identity from a book
00:39:28
you think you're so righteous but then you're abusive to your wife you you're he's a giant phony does
00:39:38
does that make any sense oh 100% I mean I I it's without hesitation that I say the guy certainly needed help and
00:39:47
probably needed help from a very young age and I don't think that we can sit here and try to pick apart and
00:39:54
rationalize the decision that he made made to kill John lennin or fully understand what his his real intentions
00:40:02
were or the the motive behind any of it because I don't know that Mark David Chapman fully understands it himself and
00:40:13
I think you're exactly right I think that at the most simple level that we can put this is that Mark Chapman was
00:40:23
very much a nobody he was a failure John lennin was the complete opposite of that
00:40:30
he was extremely successful extremely famous and wellik he was everything that Mark David
00:40:37
Chapman was not everything that Chapman wanted to be and somehow in some weird Twisted way I think Chapman believed
00:40:47
that he could be more lenon like if he killed John Lennon yeah possibly but I I do see a a a side
00:40:59
where you know he he did drugs John did drugs they're both abusive people I think there was a part of him that was
00:41:08
like look how easy it's for him for this icon because he was part of the Beatles
00:41:14
he almost like John wasn't punished for it but I was and he talks a lot about how he was
00:41:22
going down he was falling off the cliff falling deep deeper and deeper uh and but again we you know there's plenty of
00:41:31
interviews with Mark David Chapman his story constantly changes he constantly talks about these different signs he
00:41:39
saw um or the signs he did not receive I mean he spent most of the evening of the
00:41:46
eth struggling inside of his own mind this is according to Chapman trying to decide on well do I get the next cab out
00:41:54
of here and go home or or do I stick around and shoot and kill John Lennon yeah to which he says there were no
00:42:01
signs to tell me to stop there was no signs that you know this man that I met Paul he left well that's a sign to keep
00:42:10
going this woman that I asked out she didn't go out with me that's a sign to stay here and keep going and then when
00:42:16
the limo pulls up and Yoko and John get out and John is walking toward him Chapman starts Hearing in his head do it
00:42:25
do it now do it do it now do it now and then he pulls the gun he takes the combat stance and he fires five shots in
00:42:34
the direction of John Lennon and and he becomes the biggest piece of [ __ ] in history well we got to put this guy
00:42:43
behind bars here still Captain so what we have here is Mark Chapman he is going to is the right to attorney he has a
00:42:51
right to a trial in February of 1981 he he sends a handwritten statement to the New York Times telling everyone
00:43:00
to read The Catcher in the Ry calling it an extraordinary book that holds many answers he would not be sentenced
00:43:10
until 1981 in August late August and he and he's evaluated for 6 months prior to
00:43:21
his trial this is going to be with over a dozen different psychiatrists Chapman was charged with second deegree
00:43:30
murder originally his attorneys told him to plead not guilty by reason of insanity well after a bunch of back and
00:43:40
forth what ends up happening is Chapman decides of his own free will to to declare himself competent and he plad
00:43:50
guilty to the murder of John lennin yeah and he's been sentenced to 20 years which has already passed obviously mhm
00:44:00
but uh I know Yoko and Shawn show up at every Pro hearing and I think they did they tack on more time because he had a
00:44:10
list because I don't think the charge was as simple as just he was charged with the killing of John lennin I think
00:44:16
he was also possibly charged with something maybe they dismissed that uh but he was
00:44:22
I thought he was charged with something because he had that that hit list well some people find it interesting that his
00:44:29
wife was never charged with anything going off of the belief that Chapman did as he said tell his wife he intended to
00:44:38
kill John lennen showed her the gun showed her the ammunition right she knew he had already gone to New York once
00:44:45
before her simple answer is that the guy said a lot of things and did very little
00:44:52
and she did she did suggest to him many times you need to get help even scheduling him to go and talk with
00:45:01
people however he never would show up for the actual appointments right that I mean I think it's just a very difficult
00:45:09
situation mental health needs to be talked about more and more and we need to be way more open about it not just
00:45:16
because these individuals could hurt themselves but because they hurt others how many cases now have we seen you know
00:45:23
look at Coline those guys were depressed look at this case this guy has some depression issues going on he has
00:45:31
probably some psychosis issues going on as well and if people were more willing to say hey look I'm going to have to
00:45:38
call his doctor myself and say hey there's something wrong with him and these are the things he's saying and you
00:45:45
have to be able to report that stuff uh it would save lives yeah and I don't need a degree on
00:45:52
my wall to tell you that this guy had some mental issues I mean it's it's obvious to us all he had depression
00:45:59
issues and I don't think that that is the extent of it as you said Captain he gets 20 years in prison uh he is
00:46:08
required to have a parole hearing every two years from that year uh once he's eligible so in 2000 he had his first
00:46:18
parole hearing and he has had 11 of them since and every single time has been denied
00:46:26
parole it looks like per some of his statements at these parole hearings that he I I don't want to comment to his
00:46:35
state of mind because I don't think that I'm qualified to do that however it looks like at times throughout the years
00:46:44
he's understood the severity of his crime and he's also stated things like this was premeditated murder this was
00:46:54
something that was selfish and evil that I did and in fact this year at the age of
00:47:03
65 he was denied parole once again for the 11th time Mark David Chapman's 12th parole hearing is scheduled for August
00:47:13
of 2022 well one of the things that yoka always says is that she fears not only just for her she fears not only for her
00:47:23
family but the safety of Mark David because how many cuz he has a Target on his back
00:47:30
right when he gets out well that's one reason that they moved him from the medical facility where they first kept
00:47:38
him to evaluate him for months and months before his trial they had to move him from there because they didn't
00:47:44
believe they could keep him safe so they had to take him to the prison to wait for his trial where they knew that they
00:47:51
could keep him safe so I think you're exactly right this guy would have a Target on his back regardless of where
00:47:59
he is I'm surprised that he survived this long in prison but then I also have to keep in mind if you idolize John
00:48:07
lenen and you want to try to be more like his he was later in life then you are an advocate for peace and
00:48:17
therefore going out with a violent act on Mark David Chapman would go against what those beliefs were we don't have a
00:48:26
recommended reading this week Captain there's so many things out there so many directions to point someone if they want
00:48:33
more information on this case or the life of John Lennon or the Beatles right and there's multiple documentaries
00:48:41
there's multiple movies made about uh the killing of John Lennon one piece of material in particular that I will
00:48:50
suggest to everyone out there is the December 1992 Larry King interview with Mark
00:48:57
David Chapman this was on the Larry King live program I found this to be a fascinating interview I've really
00:49:08
enjoyed watching Mark talk about the crimes talk about his life the events leading up to that I don't know how much
00:49:17
of it was as you would say hogwash or Flim Flam is he giving us a different version because he's able to tell the
00:49:24
story 12 years later he does at times also present himself as a victim I have a hard time seeing him as a victim
00:49:32
knowing what he did knowing that he walked around ready to murder individuals for whatever reason it was
00:49:41
right but I found it to be a fascinating interview and Larry King of course one of the best interviewers of all time so
00:49:47
I recommend the 1992 interview with Mark David Chapman and if you get a chance he
00:49:53
also had some corresponding uh letters with the arresting officer and I think there was
00:50:01
three or four letters those were auction off but that kind of gives an insight and and what I would say about this case
00:50:09
more so than other cases is there's a lot of details there's a lot of possible answers of why or possible details but
00:50:21
because the person killed was such an icon I think there are so many stories that are surrounding this case that are
00:50:29
possibly just not factually true but I'll place that Larry King and Mark David Chapman interview on our website
00:50:38
at true Crim garage.com according to Keith Greenberg's book December 8 1980 the day John Lenin died Mark David
00:50:47
Chapman was contemplating the possibilities of acquiring a nuclear device and blowing up a small City then
00:50:55
he rised his plan he could hurt a lot more people by murdering someone whom Untold Millions saw as an idol a voice
00:51:04
and a role model today Mark David Chapman is ateka State prisoner 818 2860 he is up for parole but it's
00:51:16
probably for the betterment and the safety of our society that he remains a prisoner for the rest of his days John
00:51:25
lennin was not a perfect man we all know that in fact John lennin said himself that he was a flawed individual he was
00:51:32
trying to become a better man a better father a better husband he was writing music to inspire everybody else to
00:51:40
evolve and to become better people as well and I think that it was Joel seagull who summed it up best in
00:51:49
reference to the death of John lennin he said quote it's because he dreamed so beautifully that we hurt so
00:51:57
[Music] much thank you guys so much for joining us thanks for letting us be a part of
00:52:17
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combined and with off the Record we get to go to a lot of case updates so if you're wondering about a case that we
00:52:40
covered if there's been an update we give that to you on off the Record until next week Colonel that's right we'll
00:52:48
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00:52:55
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