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foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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check those out at True Crime garage.com and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] on May 11 2007 liko left work at Agway
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this is a farm equipment and garden supply chain around 6 pm he and his best friend and co-worker and now roommate
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Caleb McCauley got into liko's powder blue 1984 Toyota Celica Supra for their evening the two picked up a handle of
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vodka and cranberry juice for a little mixer 5 out of 5 bottle caps liko and Caleb drove down Route 116 toward East
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and traveling at 45 to 47 miles per hour the speed limit in this area is 35 miles
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per hour but soon a police SUV this is a Chevy Tahoe that's heading toward them from the opposite direction is spotted
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so liko slowed down trying to avoid getting pulled over driving the Tahoe was none other than
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Corporal Bruce McKay McKay saw that the registration sticker on the Toyota was expired officer McKay
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flipped on his lights made a u-turn and now he's chasing down the Toyota according to Caleb liko pulled his car
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into the first available dirt turnout on the side of routes 116. we have dashboard footage of this and this video
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will also be at our website at True Crime garage.com the two sat in the vehicle while officer
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McKay called in a request for another unit to provide backup on the call McKay said he pulled over leeco Kenny
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Sugar Hill PD heard this call and was quickly in route then officer McKay got out of his vehicle now for those that
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have not seen this video online there is no audio for this portion of the video and McKay is just off camera as he
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approaches the driver's side window so we can't see him all we know about this portion of the
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stop is what Caleb later told investigators Caleb says he observed the following from the passenger seat McKay
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asked for liko's license and registration without telling him why he pulled him over Lico refused
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and asked that another officer be called to the scene Caleb says officer McKay refused this
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request liko started making calls on his cell phone but failed to get a hold of anyone
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and then suddenly liko sped off leaving officer McKay's vehicle sitting in the dirt off of the side of Route 116.
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Caleb says liko was concerned and Afraid of the traffic stop and afraid of Officer McKay
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liko was in route to his family's property which was not far away at all this because liko wanted there to be
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Witnesses in case something should happen and to be clear he's not speeding at like a hundred miles an hour he just
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drives off yeah that's one thing that I thought was interesting about this portion of the
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video he's clearly not speeding away but officer McKay jumps in his vehicle and gives Chase he is racing at a much
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higher rate of speed in my opinion well right to catch up with him with the siren and lights on just a few hundred
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yards before the east in line McKay passed liko and slowed to a stop forcing likos Toyota to a halt behind him
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McKay turned the Tahoe around to face liko's car and motion for liko to back up into a dirt driveway this is a wide
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dirt driveway owned by the McKenzie family liko gestured out the window with his
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hand indicating to McKay that he wanted to to pass or as Caleb would say proceed
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to his family's property McKay was having none of this meanwhile a gray Chevy Silverado pickup
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truck can be seen in the background of the dash cam footage stopped on the shoulder of Route 116 and presumably
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observing all of this leeco backed onto the dirt driveway and McKay paused for a few
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seconds and then Advanced his vehicle his bumper physically pushing liko's car up against a front end loader that was
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parked there I think it's safe to say he rammed ram liko's car rammed him and pushed him into this front end loader
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then suddenly the audio around this time kicks in and we hear the blaring sound of the siren
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McKay enters the frame on the right side striding up to liko's open window and immediately releasing a heavy stream of
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pepper spray forcibly into the vehicle spraying both occupants McKay turns to jog away and then an arm comes out of
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the driver's side window holding a handgun shots are fired in Rapid succession and we can hear McKay
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groaning in pain then the car driven by liko backs up turns and drives off to the right out of
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the frame the dash cam video ends there but this is not the end of this encounter
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here's what we know happened from multiple witness statements one thing that gets thrown in here
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captain that that may be of some interest to some is that apparently totally uncharacteristically of Officer
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McKay he was not wearing his bulletproof vest on this day yeah he was known to always wear his vest so one bullet went
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through McKay's arm and four hit him in his side McKay likely in shock stumbled across
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the road dripping blood trying to pull his gun out of his holster and that's when liko backed up and drove
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in his Direction running his car right into the back of Officer McKay Caleb later told investigators that he
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thought this was accidental after all Lika was likely at least partially blinded by the pepper spray right but
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then liko backed up and ran the Toyota forward right into McKay now now the Toyota is stuck
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because this vehicle is now on top of the cop as stated in Bad Blood if the first
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attempt was an accident the second certainly was not and I tend to believe this I I tend to believe it none of it's
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accident I mean before you hit the officer with your car you pulled a gun and shot him multiple times
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this horrific event still is not over sadly the other vehicle we mentioned the pickup truck that was sitting on the
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roadway a few hundred yards away witnessing this whole thing had two passengers inside
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the driver was teenager Gregory P Floyd and the passenger seat was his father Gregory W Floyd
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the senior Floyd walked over and grabbed officer McKay's dropped service weapon off of the ground
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he checked that it was loaded as he walked toward the Toyota's passenger side and he raised his arm and he shot into
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the car shattering the window and hitting the driver liko in the head and the neck
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the bullets whistled over Caleb's back as he bent over his knees terrified Floyd yelled to his son to call for help
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on McKay's Cruiser radio Floyd Jr as we're calling him he's not technically a junior grabbed the radio
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in McKay's empty Cruiser and radioed in officer down officer down I don't you need to come I don't know where you need
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to you need to come the police officer I think he's dead the people that the officer was trying to stop all of a
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sudden just started shooting at him and then my dad had me stop and then he tried to help the officer
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that was on the call now according to Caleb as soon as Floyd shot Lika without warning Floyd ordered Caleb to grab
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liko's gun and get out of the car or he's going to shoot him in the face Caleb was convinced that Floyd would
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shoot him so he decided to not touch the gun he refused to touch the gun in fact not
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wanting to give Floyd an excuse to shoot him which is probably the move that saves his life [ __ ] man I don't know if
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I would have been that quick on my head feet to come up with that in that situation especially when you're you're
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I mean you're terrified instead Caleb sat in the dirt outside the car with his hands in the air terrified and in tears
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Floyd took liko's gun from inside the car and then took off his shirt to make a tourniquet for the downed officer so
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now Floyd is shirtless his huge belly hanging out holding two weapons both pointed at Caleb dead when officer
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Philip Blanchard arrived on the scene and told Floyd to drop the weapons he had to do so a number of times including
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using some Choice language before Floyd complied but saying something like easy son I'm quicker than you
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yeah that's so strange then Floyd and officer Blanchard hoisted the Toyota off of Officer McKay
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so that a nurse could give him CPR McKay had several lacerations on his face including having lost the tip of
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his nose his skull is fractured he had a shattered pelvis and of course the gunshot wounds his intestines Spilled
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Out of a severe wound in his abdomen as he looked on Greg Floyd said about McKay quote he's [ __ ] the cops yelled
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at him to shut up McKay is still alive at this time you know CPR is being performed right you can't have this guy
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in the background saying the guy's not going to make it people give up in those situations unfortunately the CPR was too
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little too late for McKay who was then pronounced dead at the hospital meanwhile no one at the scene checked to
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see whether liko had a pulse at this time he did not and he too was in fact dead and it's definitely a disturbing
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video to watch knowing that both these individuals lost their lives that's what was strange for me Captain
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was going into it I knew what the outcome was going to be but watching it it's it's still
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disturbing it just happened so fast as it's like chaos happens so quickly you can't really prepare yourself for what
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you're about to see so let's talk about Gregory Floyd The Man Who so calmly walked up and shot 24 year old liko
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Kenny in the head the man that's faster than you are 49 year old Gregory Floyd was a former Marine and Off the Grid
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back Woodsman he and his wife and son also named Gregory lived just below the poverty line
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Floyd had had 16 back surgeries and was relying on social security disability checks to get by his wife was in a car
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accident and used a cane to walk and she rarely left the house The Floyds purchased their property with
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the proceeds of a disability settlement Floyd got after a back injury he suffered on the job
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most of their money went to pay for medications Floyd was diabetic he had a heart attack in 2006 and was on 22
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different medications including antidepressants the older Gregory Floyd father Floyd had
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been arrested in Georgia in 1981 for selling PCP and pot and was prohibited by law from owning
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Firearms which did not prevent him from keeping lots of guns stashed away at his home
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he and his wife apparently were both big gun enthusiasts about 10 years before the fatal traffic
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stop the police were sent out to the Floyd property when neighbors turned Floyd in for firing automatic weapons on
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his property at night on multiple occasions they told police that Floyd became paranoid when he took his medications
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both sets of neighbors appear to be afraid of Floyd obtaining a search warrant for Floyd's
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Home Police found six guns this is in a May 1997 search Floyd handed them over without incident
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but the next day Floyd threatened to sick his attack dog on and shoot a meter reader who was just doing his job on the
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Floyd property when police came to arrest him for this incident Floyd went off on a rant about his
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constitutional rights he raved to the cops I know you wear vests so I will have to put it right between your eyes
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I'm an ex-marine and I don't miss while police were cuffing him Floyd tried to knee one of them in the groin
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he posted 150 dollar bail and later pled guilty to attempted assault of a State Trooper
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he received a suspended prison sentence of one to three years on the condition that he stay out of trouble
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it wasn't until after this conviction that his felony arrest in Georgia was uncovered which revealed that because he
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had a felony conviction he was not supposed to own any guns so he was arrested again
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and another search conducted of his home resulted in seven more guns being confiscated somehow Floyd managed to
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evade conviction for the threats to the meter reader and the gun possession charges and things seemed to calm down
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for Floyd until this 2007 shooting of leeco Kenny so he could have something maybe a couple screws loose or maybe
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it's just a crazy SOB maybe no screws at all right he's held together by duct tape and
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chewing gum so back at the scene of the officer McKay and leeco Kenney shootings
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when officer Blanchard asked Floyd if he was okay Floyd said quote I'm fine that
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was the 43rd person I've killed I had three tours in Vietnam I'm a marine I know how to use a gun I don't know who
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the f he is he's talking about liko I don't know who the f is under the car meaning McKay but God damn nobody's
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going to run somebody over and just run them down two times right in front of me
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I've been around the world and I'm not putting up with that crap this is quoted in the book Bad Blood
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I mean I I don't know like you review this and you feel like you're you're reading a movie script
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well you know it's an officer so I I mean it takes a lot of balls to get out of your vehicle with no weapon
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after you see uh officer gunned down or no screws as we pointed out right and so
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um I don't know well the day after the shootings the New Hampshire attorney general held a press conference that
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stated that officer McKay's dash cam and Radio Calls had provided the following information
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McKay observed a Toyota driving on Route 116 was speeding and had expired registration
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I want to cut in for a minute here I have no idea how McKay would have saw the expired
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tags the expiration on these tags right they're they're they're traveling toward
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one another it seems like a difficult thing to spot and I know that in some states they don't even put the tag on
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the front of the vehicle but that that's just an aside here right well unless they they do have
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computers that can read the license plate is is it possible that something uh triggered it for him right he didn't
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have to visual I got you that all he had to do was drive past him you're right I
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I just wonder about the technology in an area that has three full-time police officers but who knows anyway he he's
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got he's got supervision either way and he saw that it was expired the the statement goes on to say when
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pulled over the driver liko Kenny asked for another officer then drove away McKay pursued and overtook McKay then
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pulled in front of Kenny's car forced it off the road and used pepper spray on the driver and his passenger Kenny then
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drew a handgun and shot McKay then ran him over another area man Gregory Floyd observed
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the shooting from his truck he retrieved officer McKay's gun he then shot Kenny when he told authorities Kenny refused
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to put down his gun the Attorney General concluded quote Gregory Floyd's actions were Justified
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based upon dangerous circumstances confronted with efforts to assist McKay end quote Floyd would not be charged and
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officer McKay died a hero I wanted to make sure we read that statement because there's a lot of people that have a lot
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of questions speculation and suspicions regarding this whole thing that went down well we
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have crazy Floyd saying that he doesn't know who liko is or McKay but there's some speculation that he actually knew
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officer McKay yes I was looking for good proof on that speculation to which I could not find it could you no but I'd
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certainly saw the speculation we're not talking about an area where a ton of people live there
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and the the other weird thing too so you'd know the officers well but then you have to wonder does McKay know Floyd
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right it seems likely Floyd would know McKay or no of McKay because you only have three officers but
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there's also speculation that Floyd was leaving from the same place that liko Kenny and Caleb had just left
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what I heard as a rumor is liko and his buddy are buying their booze buying their cranberry juice and
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Floyd sees them and actually calls McKay to let McKay know hey your buddy liko is
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here and he has some booze on him and then that's how McKay started pursuing liko
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now again I don't know other than the speculation I've heard in multiple places I can't
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find that to be fact well after the funerals for the two dead men a Groundswell of anger and protest began
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some people believe that officer McKay was hardly the innocent victim hero While others believed that liko got what
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he deserved and still others questioned why exactly convicted felon Gregory Gregory Floyd was permitted to shoot
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someone to death and walk away newspapers demanded the release of Officer McKay's dash cam footage
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suspecting that he had antagonized liko tensions ran so high that officials they
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formed a committee to encourage an exchange of facts instead of rumors and grudges the committee did not take sides
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but issued a report that said that it's likely both murders could have been prevented if quote either liko Kenny had
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more respect for the law or Bruce McKay had more skill at Conflict Management end quote or both is where you take that
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statement a little bit further yeah or if Lika Kenny wasn't carrying a gun so you want to get your thoughts here
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because we discussed our thoughts a bit on the first arrest from 2003. now we have this this double shooting here
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where the first video my very basic and general opinion of the two the first video liko is annoying defiant to the
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end he won't let up he's pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing the officer I actually think that McKay
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handled the first incident very well I I don't know that I give him an A plus I give him like a B minus
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which I think is acceptable right I I have like the a total reverse of opinion on this situation
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I almost feel like McKay should have been in total control I won't say that he got what he deserved
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that seems like too cruel of a statement or a thought for me to even have yeah that is but it really feels to me like
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this is the reversal where McKay was really pushing the envelope and really could have just controlled this
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situation in a much better manner no one had to be killed that day let alone two
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people here's a difficult thing though is McKay knows liko for now several years we now know that his behavior his
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Antics his aggression his violence is ramping up hmm so you have to keep that in mind that
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this officer knows this this individual very well I question how did he know liko was there I questioned was the
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actual reason uh did he get a call from Floyd did he pull him over and then see that the the registration was expired
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and I was able to ask my father retired police officer retired detective what do
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you see in this video and one of the things that he thought was interesting was when you are following a car and you
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are the loan officer that you wouldn't make a move to get in front of that car protocol would be just to follow that
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car until backup comes or until that car stops we don't see that here that makes me
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believe that he knew Floyd was behind him that he knew he knew Floyd and possibly
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friends with him because he makes a maneuver as if there's two officers there and
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there wasn't then you get in front of liko and then you ram his car now I don't know if that
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was an accident or if that was on purpose but again you know this individual you're the officer you're the one that's
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trying to you should be controlling this situation not escalating it not throwing
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gasoline onto a fire if you know that this individual is not stable maybe not mentally stable you are throwing
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gasoline on that fire by ramming that individual and I think you can tell that by
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the passenger and liko's car and and the eyewitness and then you go and again instead of waiting for officers instead
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of uh waiting for backup you go and instead of trying to talk to liko you go and pepper spray him throwing gasoline
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on the fire again foreign [Music] cheers thanks for joining us in the garage and thanks for telling a friend
00:27:56
thanks for telling a friend that's right I got a few thoughts here captain and you're going to hear every one of them
00:28:02
we don't have time for your thoughts this is just like a weird weird colliding of Worlds here for me
00:28:12
because what I feel like is we have four people in the middle of the situation well five if you include uh the younger
00:28:19
Gregory Floyd who was driving the truck the real victim to me seems like this Caleb individual that's sitting
00:28:27
passenger seat in liko's car he seems completely terrified and almost Frozen in the moment not really knowing what to
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do not knowing how to react and here's the other thing had we had other individuals just not react it
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wouldn't have gone this far I feel like we have McKay jumping his vehicle in front of likos
00:28:51
because he's coming up at the end of his jurisdiction at the line that cuts off his jurisdiction I almost feel like this
00:28:58
is a situation where McKay thought you know what I'm going to pin him down inside my
00:29:04
jurisdiction because he fled the scene I'm going to do some property damage to his his vehicle
00:29:11
and I'm gonna get out I'm gonna pepper spray this kid and when the other officer shows up which I know is in
00:29:18
route according to my radio or at least according to what we've been told was said the audio is conveniently not there
00:29:25
or maybe inconveniently not there I don't know how you want to spend that but the easiest thing to do would have been
00:29:33
like you just said before the break to continue to pursue leeco Kenny he's going to run out of gas or stop
00:29:42
eventually we know according to Caleb that he was intent on going to his family's property
00:29:49
you could have simply followed him there stayed inside your vehicle and when the
00:29:55
other officer arrived the other officer could have taken over the situation but possibly the other officer gets
00:30:03
killed because I think there's enough evidence to prove that there was something happening with liko Kenny
00:30:10
mentally with his mental health I think that look the the victims are the family of these two individuals
00:30:18
because both their deaths or cause by cause and effect and and adding fuel to the fire and
00:30:28
never backing down it's almost like these two bulls that were on a collision course for the
00:30:34
last four years right and that's that's what I'm getting at cause and effect I think the most effective way to control
00:30:41
the situation would have been to continue to to follow the suspect right and wait for the other
00:30:48
officer to take over the situation we can't get into what ifs after that we we just don't know
00:30:55
um but there is protocol that could have been followed and I think that McKay went out of his way to not follow that
00:31:01
protocol I think he went out of his way to really turn into a bully in this situation where I didn't see that in the
00:31:09
2003 arrest the other thing too and I want to throw these other stories aside because I
00:31:16
really wanted to form an opinion on what I thought of the situation inside of what we see on camera inside what we
00:31:25
hear from the witness statements later I didn't want to get into this whole Floyd
00:31:30
and McKay were friends I couldn't I couldn't find any proof that the two of them were friends it's just some
00:31:36
speculation I saw a lot of speculation on that the issue being here is I don't think the two types line up well to be
00:31:44
friends one it doesn't seem like Floyd had any friends it seemed like it would be very difficult to be a friend of his
00:31:52
either way it's a two-way street yeah the thing I argue is that the community is so small that it would be almost
00:31:59
impossible not to think of them as acquaintances and then the other thing too is we have on the reverse of that
00:32:06
McKay who by most accounts his personality was he was black and white he was wrong and right and he wouldn't I
00:32:15
don't know that he would have been friends with somebody of Floyd's character or past so that one
00:32:23
seems a little weird to me and that's why I wonder if we just have a weird situation where three Worlds Collide
00:32:29
where you have Kenny who seems to be spiraling out of control and then we have McKay who with inside
00:32:37
this situation is obviously losing control and then Floyd who knows when's the last time he had any control at all
00:32:45
it's just a weird weird tragic situation all fooled with bad filled with bad behavior and fueled with bad blood well
00:32:54
and to back up the cause and effect we have a retired officer saying hey that's a maneuver to get in front of the person
00:33:01
that's not something you do unless you had backup so he saw that as being wrong he saw ramming liko's car as being a way
00:33:10
that you're escalating the situation and then you get out you're not protected if
00:33:16
you're so fearful why isn't your gun drawn uh why aren't you trying to talk to the individual you do none of that
00:33:23
you go up and and pepper spray so those are multiple things that a retired police officer which will normally
00:33:30
always go to bat for police officer saying those don't make sense to me those aren't those aren't actions I
00:33:37
would have done yeah and I I tell you what this might not be a a popular opinion to have but I do believe
00:33:45
that the the Floyd shooting Kenny I agree with the decision that it was justifiable I also think that really
00:33:55
that committee broke it down to the best of what what I believe that wasn't that
00:34:01
ruled within like 24 hours yeah I'm not I'm not saying I never said that I agree
00:34:06
with the time frame in which You released your your decision I just agree with the the decision right
00:34:13
my two my two problems is again because you have a grieving family take a little more time try to be a little
00:34:21
more understanding of the situation and on top of that when you release this video footage why is the audio
00:34:30
compromised was this compromised by Officer McKay or was this compromised by the committee who released this video
00:34:40
because that to me seems suspicious and and I think uh the Kenny family has the right to go hey this does this
00:34:51
doesn't make a lot of sense on the same token we have a family that has been dealing with the Antics and the
00:34:59
behavior and I think the mental instability of liko and I and I wish again we just don't talk
00:35:09
about mental health enough enough and I think sometimes when and somebody's going down the wrong path we we start
00:35:15
thinking that that's alcohol abuse or drug abuse when it really might just be a imbalance and somebody that needs
00:35:23
mental health help yeah I I do like that committee's decision or at least their statement of what they said
00:35:29
in regards to both of these murders could have been prevented if either one of these individuals would have behaved
00:35:36
differently or had more respect for the law or each other right you know I think
00:35:41
that that is really what I see here as well and then my thoughts on the audio itself I almost feel like I would like a
00:35:50
statement in regards to that why it is what it is on the the public view of the dash cam footage I almost my my own
00:36:00
personal belief would be that if it was compromised before it was released I feel like they would just have removed
00:36:08
all of the audio rather than have it kick on at the end to notify us that hey it's it's not there and now it's here I
00:36:16
actually don't believe it kicked on at the end well I mean I'm telling you it did unless somebody went out I mean I've
00:36:22
applied it to the video I've watched it when when it starts to fade in it's it's almost like uh there's a gate
00:36:30
almost like there's a gate on the audio or that the that the audios just turn way down and because
00:36:39
something happens whether it's the gunshots or the sirens blaring that that's where why you can hear that loud
00:36:48
peak of sound but those low level of a car driving or McKay talking and radio radioing something in would be low
00:37:00
enough of a volume that we wouldn't be able to hear right and that's what I'm getting at I'm wondering if that is
00:37:06
something that McKay would have had control over inside the vehicle yeah I just wish either one or both of these
00:37:14
individuals would have had more respect for each other and and there's no reason
00:37:19
either one of them should have lost their lives over this but I guess that's not the complete end of speculation in
00:37:27
regards to officer McKay because there's some discussion out there that he may be
00:37:32
involved or have some knowledge of another case that we've talked about several times on this show and that's
00:37:40
The Disappearance of Mara Murray and True Crime garage was lucky enough to speak with Aaron Larkin someone who has
00:37:48
spent a lot of time looking into the mara Murray case foreign [Music] I want to thank you for taking the time
00:38:07
to speak with me you're the host of 107 degrees a podcast about the missing person Mara Murray and one of the
00:38:17
leading experts on this case I appreciate that how did you get involved in the marmary case it was sort of a
00:38:27
slow process slow build but I actually was on the track team with Maura we weren't friends but I remember when she
00:38:35
disappeared and then a few years ago I saw that there was this podcast and I started
00:38:41
following up and trying to see like where the case was and learning more and saw that there was a lot of
00:38:48
misinformation out there and thought I might be able to help in some way and what's your degree in political
00:38:58
science and I have a master's in quantitative methods in political science and I'm ABD in a PhD program so
00:39:06
this was just kind of a labor of love yeah I mean I think that there was a lot of things that I identified with with
00:39:13
the Murrays and the idea that my family could be going sort of a horrifying thought so that was
00:39:23
definitely part of it as well so when did Bruce McKay show up on your radar as you looked into
00:39:31
the Mario Murray case maybe like a year or two into it I was looking through the
00:39:35
dispatch logs and I saw that there was this officer who was unresponsive and at a at a motel
00:39:43
like around 9 30 the night more disappeared and I thought oh well Maura was looking for a motel maybe I'll maybe
00:39:50
this has something to do with something and so I looked other places where he was in the log
00:39:56
and saw that he seems to have dropped everything that he was doing the minute after the 9-1-1 call came in
00:40:06
from Faith Westman where they first reported Moore's accident from that point from 720
00:40:13
forward he was essentially off radio and and counted for so that's what was the first
00:40:20
thing that made me a little bit curious about what he was doing Samara wrecks her car in 2004. there's neighbors and
00:40:29
we know there's a bus driver that is calling 9-1-1 to report this wreck right this officer Bruce McKay is responding
00:40:38
to a suicide call yeah so it was a pretty serious one too because the guy had had his guns
00:40:46
confiscated by police earlier in the day and there's actually a note in the log that says they don't think that they got
00:40:53
them all so then later on in the evening he's threatening suicide and may have guns
00:40:58
and may have um some anger toward police so I would think that that's a situation
00:41:04
where you know it's pretty big emergency do you know what time that call came in
00:41:10
so that call came in just before 7 20 I think it was either 7 19 or 7 17 or something but McKay was the first
00:41:19
officer dispatched and that was at 7 20. so they dispatched him to respond to this uh suicide call do we know if he
00:41:28
would have passed Mara on the route to this suicide so there's no way to really know where he was when he was dispatched
00:41:38
um but there is some evidence to suggest that he may have been in Woodsville because he made a call earlier in the
00:41:46
night around 7 08 pm that appears to be a call to butson's Liquors which is in Woodsville
00:41:53
so that doesn't mean he was certainly doesn't mean that he was in Woodsville but he may have been and then you say
00:42:01
that he he goes off radio around what time uh so he's not heard after after he drops whatever he's doing and goes
00:42:11
somewhere else at 7 28 PM he's not heard from for two hours and dispatch contacts
00:42:17
him and he communicates that he's at a motel but then doesn't communicate why and isn't responsive when they try to
00:42:25
get in touch with him again so basically the idea once he hits your radar is you see that there's a cop working in
00:42:35
the department that should have been investigating this crash I don't know if he should have been investigating it
00:42:41
necessarily but I do think it's quite a coincidence that he he cleared out of this call that he
00:42:49
had been on his way to for seven minutes seven or eight minutes before clearing it so something had to have happened
00:42:56
or I mean he might have run out of gas like that anything could have happened but if you cleared it for a reason that
00:43:03
was work related the only explanation would be that he was going to Moore's accident because there's
00:43:11
nothing else that was occurring at the time nothing so we know that multiple officers were dispatched to this call
00:43:18
right is there any explanation of why he would be dispatched to this call and then not
00:43:24
show up uh not that I'm aware of I mean I think it's possible they just decided not to
00:43:33
send him and send somebody else in his place like within 15 seconds of him clearing it there was another dispatched
00:43:39
officer that was sent out so it seems like they wanted three people there right and
00:43:46
um and as to why why this third officer the fourth really and not McKay I don't I
00:43:53
don't know I mean I guess you probably know a little bit about McKay's personality at this point
00:44:00
maybe it's not the best situation to send him into uh there could be a lot of reasons but
00:44:05
there's no we don't know the answer but it's on record that he was cleared from the call yes we do he was he was well it
00:44:14
just says it was cleared so it the implication is that he was canceled out of the call and we we don't know why and
00:44:22
I actually went to the Littleton Police Department and got the police report of that incident just to make sure that
00:44:28
there wasn't something wrong in the log and maybe he did show up but that wasn't
00:44:33
the case there were only three officers and they were the other three officers that were
00:44:38
listed in the log McKay did not show up right but are you saying that the department told him not to
00:44:45
uh I don't know whether they told him not to or whether he um chose not to for some reason the problem
00:44:54
is that the dispatch logs are a little bit hard to interpret the shorthand of and so I don't want to
00:45:03
I don't want to assume too much but it does say in there that there was an officer that was had referenced that he
00:45:12
was covering a town and asking for another officer to come out it seems possible that
00:45:21
some one of the officers was asking to have another officer be sent in this place and it just so happens that that
00:45:29
is what happened the first police officer is on the scene with the mara Murray crash at what time at 7
00:45:39
46 according to the dispatch log and we have no known whereabouts of Bruce McKay
00:45:47
for roughly two hours yeah and then four for the rest of the evening as well so even
00:45:54
after he he did communicate to dispatch that he was at that Motel after that he didn't respond either and he never
00:46:03
there's no record of him signing off his shift or anything like that so pretty much the rest of the night we
00:46:10
don't know where he was now did they have to return vehicles at the end of their shift or did they just drive home
00:46:16
and in their own view that I'm not sure honestly um I'm not sure so other than this call that he was
00:46:24
supposed to attend and he never showed up and then we have no record of his whereabouts other than he claims he was
00:46:30
at a hotel uh with no explanation why he is there it seems like he couldn't tell his
00:46:38
Department was at the hotel because I was taking a nap but other than that and other than his behavior
00:46:47
towards because his behavior towards liko was not the only person he was aggressive towards there was other
00:46:54
reports what else what other information do you find interesting about Bruce well
00:47:01
I think that for anyone that knows about the murmurray case there's all these questions that don't seem to add up like
00:47:10
the timeline and whether or not there was another officer on scene before the first official officer
00:47:18
arrived and how Maura disappeared so quickly why eight firefighters two cops and a neighbor all searched west of the
00:47:28
accident and no one even did a cursory search of the East which was the direction that Moore was heading and
00:47:35
that happened to be McKay's jurisdiction so when you when you sort of plug in McKay and overlay him and this whole in
00:47:46
the whole situation some of these things start to make sense how many eyewitnesses do we have
00:47:53
claiming that they saw a officer at the scene of the crash before the official officer showed up at the crash so just
00:48:03
one that I'm aware of that's witness a so she's the one that drove by approximately 10 minutes before the
00:48:09
first reported officer and said that there was the police SUV nose to nose with the Saturn one of the other things
00:48:16
she said was she she saw that vehicle a total of three times twice it passed her going in
00:48:24
the same direction on the left and the third time was at the accident scene for that to have been possible for
00:48:32
it to have passed her twice it had to pass her go off somewhere and then come back and double back one
00:48:42
thing that could potentially explain how how and why that might might have happened is if McKay's heading to to
00:48:49
this other call to this little thing call he hears this accident come in over the
00:48:54
radio and says hey I'm right in the area I'll go go to that he could have doubled back and that's
00:49:00
when she sees him the second time and then the third time was obviously at the accident but the timing works out
00:49:07
pretty perfectly for for that to have been the case but we have no evidence of Bruce radioing in and saying hey I can
00:49:16
go to this no we don't but one of the things that I think I don't want to say like about this
00:49:22
Theory but is different from some of the other theories that have been postulated
00:49:27
in this case is that it is potentially falsifiable and you can follow up on it because what we do know is there's a 25
00:49:35
minute recording that the police have in Moore's file that has all of the dispatch chatter on it from the time
00:49:42
that the um presumably from the time the time when one call came in for the next 25
00:49:47
minutes so from 7 27 to 7 52 I guess right and if he cleared it a 728 there's got to be some chatter
00:49:59
there they they refuse to release that recording right now uh it's unclear why they refused to
00:50:06
release a lot of things yes right which unfortunate because you sort of this question
00:50:13
it's a some of the timeline questions uh regardless like this is something that can be followed up on
00:50:20
one like you said if he passed this witness a to head to the suicide call then another call comes in
00:50:29
and Bruce then thinks I'm right around the corner there's other officers going to the suicide call
00:50:35
let me double back passes witness a again gets to this scene but now once he makes contact or once he arrives at the
00:50:48
scene with Mara this would give him a very small window about 10 minutes to leave the scene yes
00:50:56
I mean it's it's it is short but something something happened and um you know 10 minutes is
00:51:07
it's not an insignificant amount of time really could you tell me off the top of
00:51:11
your head how many people were calling in to 9-1-1 at the time of the crash uh there were two two calls there was two
00:51:18
and then out of all the people that you've talked to is do we have any other eyewitnesses other than those two making
00:51:24
those calls not that I'm aware of because so we have no other neighbors that were possibly looking outside their
00:51:32
window well there was there for the murats they were sort of looking out sporadically they weren't like focused
00:51:39
and staring the whole time but they they did look out a few times and see see somebody walking around the car see they
00:51:47
actually saw the car being moved right during the two 9-1-1 calls though we have uh there's two couples two married
00:51:54
couples that are making the calls so we we have at least a total of four people watching the the scene pretty
00:52:01
intensely or or less intensely but my point being is that you have a 10 minute window
00:52:09
that's not that large you think that these individuals would keep checking out their window nobody ever reports
00:52:16
anything that suspicious but why would you if another officer showed up was there for 10 minutes left and then
00:52:28
you next time you looked out the window there's another officer you might not even know that that's a new officer
00:52:34
exactly it like I think who better would be able to hide in plain sight and not necessarily
00:52:42
um stand out it's just they look out their window they say blue lights an officer comes to their door they
00:52:48
don't have any reason to think that it wasn't the same officer that they saw 10 minutes before when they looked out
00:52:54
their window do we have any evidence of sexual assaults that Bruce might uh been responsible for or any violations
00:53:06
when he has pulled over other individuals I mean so there were I know that there were a number of
00:53:14
complaints about him I don't know how typical it is for any given officer to have a series of complaints I mean I'm
00:53:23
sure they all have some um but I think that his tended to be instances where he failed to de-escalate situations
00:53:37
and he was certainly um reprimanded for breaking protocol a number of times I mean
00:53:45
not to be insensitive but he sort of met his demise as a result of breaking protocol
00:53:52
a number of times it might fall on his own rules be making up the law instead of enforcing that yeah
00:54:00
operating outside of his jurisdiction using his own personal vehicle to police stuff that really maybe should have
00:54:09
given them a sign that he shouldn't have been a police officer but uh but then besides that yeah he did
00:54:17
have a restraining order taken out against him by his wife for domestic violence
00:54:23
and as a result he shouldn't have had a gun at all which is a problem and according to
00:54:29
Franconia police they quote misplaced that record it disappeared yeah it's funny how audio has disappeared
00:54:39
with Bruce McKay and now these records just disappear and we have really no knowledge if if the call to the suicide
00:54:49
was canceled or if it disappeared and then and then he goes off radio for multiple hours comes back on radio with
00:54:57
no clear reason why and then he disappears again correct and so like you said there's possibly
00:55:06
some domestic violence in his past do we know if Bruce had any uh substance abuse issues
00:55:21
let's talk about that because I I don't know for sure right I have there are some indications that that
00:55:29
could be the case but it's really impossible for me to say any other thing during your investigation of the mara
00:55:42
Murray case anything else that has stuck out to you about Bruce McKay um yeah there's so
00:55:49
I don't know if you read the part of about him being a prosecutor for for the town and for the state so Not
00:56:01
only was he a police officer but he also prosecuted cases and called himself as a
00:56:05
witness is that like a conflict of interest yes it is and I don't think is there any other states that do that but
00:56:12
in New Hampshire you can still be a a prosecutor and a police officer even despite the fact that you don't have a
00:56:21
law degree so you can be a prosecutor you can be pretending to be a lawyer without a law degree right and without
00:56:27
being held to the same standards as barred lawyers would be and all of that stuff but anyway so he
00:56:34
you would actually make money with every arrest so because you can he can arrest he can
00:56:39
charge them and then he he makes the money Prosecuting them right so I think in that Boston magazine
00:56:45
article it said that he he had like 300 stops compared to the other two officers
00:56:51
combined 11. and yeah I think part of that is some obsession with being in authority and a
00:56:59
power trip and maybe some sadistic Tendencies but also he made money it was just like basic
00:57:08
like he just wanted to make money too right so I think that you know when I when I think about what could have
00:57:14
happened if he did encounter her that night I mean did he try to arrest her for leaving the scene of an accident
00:57:22
when she was just trying to make a cell phone call or anything anything he could have arrested
00:57:27
her for but we don't have so we don't even know if he showed up to tomorrow's scene and called that in
00:57:37
exactly but that could be on the audio file of the dispatch log that the cops or are not disclosing to the to the
00:57:48
public it could be anything else that you have uncovered about Bruce McKay um so far
00:58:00
I'm reluctant to talk about the rumors because they are just rumors I'm fine with the
00:58:08
speculation I mean we're going forward knowing that there are rumors is there one that you can throw out well for
00:58:16
this is not a rumor he he did actually take out a second mortgage on his house three days later
00:58:22
okay um after she disappeared and then an additional line of credit for I think ten thousand dollars a month later that
00:58:31
could be entirely unrelated like I think 2004 the interest rates were pretty low
00:58:37
like historically low so right I mean it could mean nothing at all but I did I did think that was somewhat interesting
00:58:44
and as far as I can tell and from talking to people in his world they're not sure
00:58:52
where that money went or what it was for so that's something that I would if I had the ability to I would look look
00:59:01
into further and then about that specific Hotel I mean he was a single guy and he was known to stay at that
00:59:11
hotel from time to time not really making any judgment there but it is a place that he seemed to frequent
00:59:21
with with um yes but like actually uh females that go on dates with or whatever are these paid female friends from what
00:59:35
I have been told yeah they may have been transactional I don't know why I'm dancing around this
00:59:42
but because it's not proven and I want to be really careful about that but right but yeah they people that worked
00:59:50
there had noticed that he he stayed there well it's it's weird too you wonder you
01:00:00
know infidelity is is very high when it comes to officers um well he wasn't married at the time
01:00:07
either so right but but I'm saying the ones that are married the the rate of infidelity is pretty high so it's so
01:00:15
what's weird to me is you don't hear from your offers there's you don't hear from your officer
01:00:20
that doesn't show up to a scene for two hours when you do hear from him he's basically
01:00:26
says oh by the way I was at this hotel then you don't hear from him for the rest of the night to me that would be
01:00:32
like some red flag but if this hotel was something that dispatch knew that McKay
01:00:40
would frequent or other officers would go to from time to time then when he calls back in after two hours and hey I
01:00:47
was at the hotel they go oh well we know why he was there you know what I mean like yeah it seems funny to me that
01:00:56
he's coming back and said hey I was at that hotel and it doesn't giant red flag for the Department to go
01:01:03
okay well that's great that you're at the hotel why why were you there for two hours why didn't you show up to this
01:01:10
call right so I did hear from Chuck West last year he he did explain to me that McKay was at what he told me was that he
01:01:23
was there that night because he was responding to a theft that had been reported and that's why he
01:01:30
wasn't on radio and that's why he was in in the motel that night so I pulled the records for that incident
01:01:38
and it had actually occurred several days before and uh McKay had filed that report away
01:01:46
by Monday afternoon and so I don't know if officer West's just didn't maybe he confused the police
01:01:54
report date with the uh with the incident date right but he he hasn't responded to my follow-up
01:02:03
questions yet um but when I when I got those reports the what I noticed is that there were
01:02:11
more than a few times that McKay called in at that motel and for a walk-throughs
01:02:17
late in the evening right and I don't know what a walk through is I like my I always interpreted that as
01:02:25
when somebody comes home and they see like their doors a little ajar right and they have the the cops like go through
01:02:31
and clear basically make sure that there's no bad guys hiding out somewhere but I don't know what that means for a
01:02:38
hotel necessarily yeah maybe possibly the same thing yeah maybe and I know that they did have a bar in a restaurant
01:02:46
at that point too they don't anymore but right so it could be a situation like I know in my small town that there
01:02:54
was a restaurant that was connected to a bar that was connected to a hotel and and that was the primarily primarily a
01:03:02
place that the truckers and a lot of people coming just for the night would visit so cops would multiple times a
01:03:10
night especially on like Fridays and Saturday nights do walk-throughs at the bar yeah so I think I guess that's
01:03:16
probably what it is um it's a little unclear but yeah which is tough because when you're looking
01:03:22
into this missing person case and you have a couple things that don't sit well with you you think that these would be
01:03:31
answers that department for me okay we have this investigator poking her head around
01:03:41
and bringing up some things to our attention why not just give her the answer I don't know
01:03:48
I don't know and unless you can't well that's possible but I do know that last uh when the oxygen show came out
01:03:58
there was a a person who who came forward with the tip after seeing like the first episode I think
01:04:05
and it had to do with McKay and somebody that lives up in the area and the police took two and a half years
01:04:15
to call her back wow yeah and so and just my impression from speaking to them I believe that they believe
01:04:27
that no cop could ever have anything to do with anything nefarious right I think that sometimes their bias gets
01:04:35
in the way and they don't want to look into it because even just looking into it
01:04:41
perhaps is offensive in some in some way no I think there's a lot of cops that they're good guys
01:04:50
they're solid guys with solid morals just like my father was a a street cop and then a detective for many years and
01:04:58
when you bring these things to his attention and having him look at Bruce McKay's videotapes
01:05:04
it doesn't make any sense to him and it almost boggles his mind because that is not his personality that's not his set
01:05:12
of moral standards that's not why he wore the badge to Serve and Protect so it becomes this this thing that they
01:05:21
can't even it's hard for them to wrap their head around right and then they become very defensive of officers in
01:05:29
almost every scenario when I sent the videos to my father about this case I was expecting a laundry list of what
01:05:38
liko did and what the Bruce did but within his rights as an officer and that is not the feedback I got the feedback I
01:05:48
got was these actions don't make a lot of sense yeah and I mean I obviously law enforcement as a topic is very divisive
01:05:57
in the marmary world but and of course you always have those people that think that all cops are
01:06:06
Sinister and the other side things all they're all Heroes yeah but I think if nothing else
01:06:15
with the McKay liko situation proves is that there are two sides to law enforcement and there are two sides in
01:06:23
that area and one of them that was on duty the night that Maura disappeared is it likely or not likely that Bruce McKay
01:06:32
was involved in The Disappearance of Mara Murray I think that the most likely outcome is like statistically speaking
01:06:40
is probably something we've never heard of and a person whose name we've never heard
01:06:44
[Music] but of the theories that are out there I think that this one at least possible holds a little water
01:06:55
it it does and I think it's possible that answering some of the questions about what hap what he was doing that
01:07:02
night could potentially lead to answers about Maura I think that there's circumstantial evidence for sure
01:07:08
that he was headed to her accident and that fact even the detectives in her case have not disagreed with me about
01:07:18
they just say that there's no evidence that he was at her accident right so there possibly could be evidence that
01:07:24
would show us that again like we said that he canceled him being dispatched to the suicide call rerouted himself to go
01:07:35
to this crash scene that shows up at the crash scene we know that she's in a state that she didn't want
01:07:42
law enforcement there even if he did even if he did show up at the at the scene there's no evidence that he did
01:07:48
anything tomorrow but I think it's something that can be followed up on and should be followed up on and I think
01:07:54
almost the worst case that I think is perhaps the most possible is that he did show up to the scene she wasn't there he
01:08:04
kept going but they don't want to let that out because of his reputation right because of how
01:08:10
it could potentially like blow up in their face well and potentially they don't have answers because Bruce is
01:08:18
deceased we do not have answers and possibly will never know what he was doing at that hotel for about two hours
01:08:26
and then what he was doing the rest of his shift do you know what time roughly his shift ended that night
01:08:32
I believe that he was on the 4 to 11 or um yeah but it's it's unclear because he don't
01:08:44
he never doesn't actually sign off so I'm not I'm not positive so it's almost four hours three and a half four hours
01:08:50
of his shift that he's unaccounted for and if if that was my employee I would want to know where they were and what
01:08:57
work they were doing all right Aaron thank you so much for joining us here in the garage what's the best way for a
01:09:04
listener to dive into your investigation of Mara Murray probably the podcast it's
01:09:09
called 107 degrees warmery foreign [Music] case do we have any recommended reading
01:09:34
this week here we go Captain a big cheers goes out to New York Times best-selling author J.R Ward there are
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