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After graduating high school, Maura Murray, who was a good student and dedicated athlete, competing and
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excelling in track and field. She attended military school. Reports are conflicting as to why she
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left. But whatever the case, she left and enrolled in University of Massachusetts Amherst.
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On February 9th, 2004, for reasons that are unknown, Maura Murray, who at the time was 21 years of
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age, left school and drove north towards New Hampshire. Sometime between 7:00 and 7:30 p.m., she
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was involved in a single car accident on Route 112 in Haverhill. Her father, Fred, believes that the car
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stalled when she was going around a turn and went into a snowbank. Maura knew this area fairly well and had
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been there several times before. She even called a place that her family had stayed at before.
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Possibly to reserve a night or two for her to stay. However, no such arrangements were made.
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From what we have been told, her family and schoolmates do not know why she was driving there that evening. She was
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supposed to be at school and her car was in no shape to be driving that distance.
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A bus driver, who lived across the street from the accident, according to his statement, he spotted her car on the
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side of the road and offered assistance. Maura told him that she was fine and that she had already called for roadside
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assistance and they were en route. The bus driver called the police. But, by the time authorities arrived,
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Maura had vanished. Some believe that she was walking or running east on the road.
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Maura vanished sometime after the accident and has not been seen since. Her father believes she may have met
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with foul play. Fred noted that she was in the middle of nowhere with no place to go due to her
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damaged car. He believes that she accepted a ride from a stranger who then killed her.
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Some believe she vanished voluntarily and does not want to be found. Another theory is that Maura wandered
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off into the woods and died of exposure. These are just three of many theories in this
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case. We featured Maura's case several times on both True Crime Garage and Off the
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Record. The strange missing person's case of Maura Murray is one of the more popular
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mysteries of the last 20 years. And unfortunately, Maura's case remains unsolved.
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We're coming up on the 16th year anniversary of the disappearance of Maura Murray.
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True Crime Garage was able to sit down and talk with Julie Murray, Maura's sister.
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This interview is a long time in the making. And so we're glad to finally be able to
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do that and present it to everybody. And hopefully we're able to create a better understanding of who Maura was as
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a person, maybe clear up some misunderstandings or misreporting on some of the events of her
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disappearance. All right, Julie, it's good to talk to you. We met at Crime Con. You were very excited to meet me.
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As as I was very excited to meet you as well. Uh very intimidated by you because I
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haven't been doing my CrossFit. And I don't think you take a day off. Well, I was you know, thanks for having
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me on and I was a little intimidated by the line to meet you wrapped around the corner. Um
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but I was very glad that I got a chance to meet you and you know, you don't need to do CrossFit every day.
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Um we talked about it. You'll get back on the wagon. Yeah, I think the line was to meet Nick.
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Um my line was a lot smaller. So, your sister went missing. And has really become
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a internet sensation almost. Do you remember the first time or who told you that your sister was
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missing? Yeah, I I was at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Uh, in the army. I was a I think I'd just pinned on first
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lieutenant. I might have been a second lieutenant. We were actually getting ready to deploy
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to to Iraq. And I think the call came in from Kathleen, my older sister, initially. And it was basically frantic
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like, "Have you heard from Maura?" And I told her, "No, I hadn't. What's going on?" And she said, "She's missing.
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Her car was found somewhere in New Hampshire." It it was kind of very frantic and vague
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the first phone call. Um, and then later on, I remember talking to my dad and he was asking the
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same set of questions. And of course, I had no idea where she was or what happened.
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So, it was extremely stressful for me to be that far away and just sit by the phone and just wait for
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some answers. So, that went on for the rest of that night and I was calling everyone and my mom
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was frantic. My whole family was frantic. And initially, I said, "Dad, okay, I'm
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I've got to get leave through the army so that I can come up and figure out what's going on." And he
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said, "Oh, hold up. I'm going to go up there and figure things out." Right. So, that was the initial
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notification that I received. Was there communication between the family about why Mara was where she was at? No one
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had a clue. Right. No one had a clue. So, that was that was the big thing and that was kind
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of what caused us well, obviously that she she was missing. We knew that it was her car. Um but we kept asking, "Well,
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why why is she there?" And it was this big mystery from the minute that that I got the phone call. Like it was a Monday
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night. It was during school year. There was no reason for her that I knew at the time to be up there. And like you
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said, since the beginning, this case has had those two questions. One, why was she there? And then what happened? And I
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don't want to put words into anybody's mouth, but to me, it seems like a lot of these theories of why she would be up
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there have either gone nowhere or they just seem very far-fetched. Like you have to
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leap from A to uh T to get there. Right. That's exactly right. And and that's I think that's
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part of the intrigue of the case is that we know so little. We don't know her motive for going up there in the first
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place. And then there are there's such little evidence there after once we know that she did go
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missing that just can boggle the mind and it has it's boggled my mind for us going on 16
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years now. You guys grew up playing sports together. But besides running track, what sports
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did you guys actually play together? We played every single sport there is. We played softball. We played soccer. We
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played basketball. We played we made up sports. We played handball. We We played We used to watch
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American Gladiator. I don't know if you remember that show. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a pretty
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pretty cool show. It was kind of like the the early 2000s version of American Ninja Warrior. Yeah. For those that
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don't know. And I love that show. And so we would like try to recreate the feat of strength or an obstacle from that
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show and just battle each other. Did you guys ever try to build one of those tennis ball
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shooters? Remember Remember the tennis ball shooter they had? Oh, yeah. Those are so cool.
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Uh no, but we we didn't try to build one, but we did go to the batting cages quite often actually with my dad and
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we always had fun. We would practice together, we'd play together, we were usually on the same teams like growing
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up in high school and Cuz the age difference is what? Yeah, so it was 2 and 1/2 years. Yeah, so not that far.
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Yeah. Yeah, so pretty competitive with each other. Who was Who was better? Well, it depends on what we were doing.
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Mara was a better runner for sure. I like to think I was a better uh soccer player.
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A cool little story about Mara with basketball is she was so good at free throw shooting. There was a There was a
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basically a qualification for the state where you shoot 10 and the best out of 10 moves forward and it was kind of a um
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um a big deal in Massachusetts and she made it all the way to the state finals where she got to shoot free throws at
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halftime of the Celtics game. That's awesome. Yeah, pretty awesome. you were pretty jealous of that.
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I was really jealous. I was her ball girl. I well, I was thankful that I was able to go and go out on you know, on
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the the court for the the pre like before the Celtics even came out for the warm-up. They they they had the kids
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come in really early and I was her rebounder. But you know, she wasn't ever going to
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let you live that down. Oh, no. If I'm sure if she was here with us right now, she would be telling you, "Oh
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yeah, you were my ball girl." So you guys were really close in high school. And then she follows you to college.
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Yeah, so I got into West Point and I I went there um two years ahead. She was still in in high school and then when
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she was getting ready to choose a college, she she applied to West Point as well, which is not not that easy to
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get into and you have to get a congressional nomination and Yeah. You got to go through a whole
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bunch of uh tests and you it's not easy to get in. It's It's very prestigious to get in.
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Yeah, and so she she got in. Uh she also ran track with with me on the track team,
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which was great because at West Point everything's so structured and you don't have any time. So we were able to see
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each other multiple times a day, which is you know, very rare um for any other cadets that were
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siblings there that weren't on the same sports team. So Well, better for her than you because
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you've been there. You I know. But Yeah. paving your own path, but then your little sister gets there. Yeah, and it
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was so cool. It was so cool to talk about her when she was still in high school to my
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teammates at West Point and then I would always tell them, you know, I hope she comes. She's a awesome runner.
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You guys would love her. And then when she was finally there, it was it was really cool. But yeah, so then your your
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father, which ever since uh I started looking into your sister's disappearance, there's a bunch of different
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uh I don't know assumptions about your dad, right? But, some people think it's strange that he
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pushed you guys so hard, or that's their words. But, as a kid that played a lot of sports,
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there's been so many times where I've been reading about your father and I just think,
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"Why couldn't Fred be my dad?" Cuz to me that just seems um to an athlete or somebody that is
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competitive, to have a parent be that invested in you. Uh is that a correct term?
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Or or the correct way to look at your dad? Absolutely. And anyone that says that my
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dad pushed us or pushed us too hard does not know my dad, because my dad did not
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push us. It was us. We pushed ourselves. Um and this that's just the nature of a
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distance runner. Distance runners have to push themselves. No one's out there on the lonely road with you at mile,
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you know, seven of a 10-mile run. You're by yourself. You push yourself. That's just the mindset that distance runners
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have. And so, you know, I used to get upset when people said, you know, categorize my dad as kind of like a
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um just mean, authoritarian just guy that was pushing us to the brink. That is so inaccurate. He actually told us to
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do less all the time. And both Mara and I wanted to get a job in high school so we could get a little,
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you know, spending money. And he's like, "No, you're You don't need a job. Your focus
00:17:13
needs to be on schoolwork and having fun, and running. You don't have time to add a job on top
00:17:22
of that. Right. So, but you still wanted spending money. So, did he give you guys some
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run around money? Well, if we asked, but Mara and I we never asked really for anything. Like our the biggest thing we
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ever wanted was like crap food, candy, pizza, um or and cool like whatever the cool sweatshirt was,
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the champion sweatshirts or whatever, but we didn't even care about that. Like we
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just we wanted to take it easy on him cuz we we had a big family, and both my parents
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worked, and they worked hard, and we didn't have a lot of money. So, we didn't want to
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we weren't needy kids is what I'm trying to say. The time that you got to spend with your father doing that is
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invaluable. Yeah, absolutely. Like he and he he gave us the resources that we needed, and the
00:18:13
biggest resource was time, his time. Yeah. Um and we spent hours and hours and hours
00:18:20
on the basketball court trying to perfect our free throw for instance, and clearly Mara did that by making it all
00:18:26
the way to the garden. Or um perfecting our we used to pitch fast pitch softball. We would
00:18:34
spend hours doing that, and we loved it. That's also free. It's free for a family that maybe
00:18:42
doesn't have a lot of money. Exactly. So, your dad had to be super proud of not just one of his girls, but two of
00:18:51
his girls going to West Point. And so, when she started at West Point, what was the
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what do you think her energy was like? Well, she knew she knew what to expect going in because I made sure she knew,
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and a lot of what you do as a we call it a plebe the first year cadet is just rote memorization and you've got
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to memorize all these different things and then you have to recite them. So, I'm like, "Hey, Mara, here's my old
00:19:22
plebe handbook. Start memorizing these things. It'll make your life easier." Right. You know,
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she did that um And so, she she excelled. I just don't think her heart was ever really in it once once
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she got there. Well, that's hard for people to explain though, too, is you can go to a college that you looked
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into and and visited and you did all these things and then all of a sudden you get there
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and you just don't feel like you're fitting in. Do you think she had any of that or was
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it just she was fitting in or could have fit in, but she just didn't want to or Yeah, I
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think it's the latter. I think she could have she she did fit in. Um she the school work was no problem for her.
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Obviously, the running she was doing great. Um she was the I think maybe the one or two top recruits coming in as a
00:20:18
freshman. As a sophomore, she was she was beating me um and you know, beating the juniors and seniors on the
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team. She was she was doing well. It's the military stuff that I don't think she enjoyed.
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Right. Or definitely didn't enjoy as much as I did. Um she was more much more of a free spirit.
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Uh I'm more structured and so, I like my routine and my everything in order and she was a little bit less of
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of that um militant type. Yeah, clean room, messy room. You seem like the clean room. She seemed like the messy
00:20:55
room type. And so, so she Yes, she was. She was a mess. I know that has been talked about a lot
00:21:01
on the internet. Is there anything that has been misreported about it or any any thing
00:21:08
that you want to talk about as far as the her time at West Point transferring over
00:21:16
to the new school. Uh yeah. I mean, well, let's just talk about the the issues at West Point. So,
00:21:23
some of the issues were the craziest things you could ever imagine. Like, she she was at a summer
00:21:31
training her second year down at um Fort Knox. And she was at what we called a PX, post
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exchange, and it's just a place where people that live on the post or are visiting or there for training go, and
00:21:47
you get a discount on whatever it is. It's kind of like a Walmart for the army. Right. Um and so, she's in there,
00:21:54
and she walks out, and the uh military police person stops her and says, "What's in your pocket?" or something,
00:22:03
and she had I think it was four or five dollars worth of lip gloss, maybe, Mhm. just in her pocket at the Fort Knox PX.
00:22:12
So, Maura was not an idiot. I don't know for sure why it was in her pocket, if she just forgot, you know, essentially,
00:22:20
it was um it was a problem because cadets can't lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those
00:22:25
who do. That's our code. That's you know, what we have to vow to when we first enter. Um so,
00:22:32
anyway, she she got caught for that, and then she had to go through a what we call a honor hearing, cadet honor
00:22:40
hearing. It's basically like a trial run by your peers, other cadets. Um and it was stressful for her. I was
00:22:49
part of the the trial as a character witness for her, and I remember going in to say, you know, she I think she just
00:22:58
forgot, or she didn't I to. If she was going to steal something, it would have been something more substantial than $4
00:23:04
lip gloss. Right, but on one hand you can go, well, maybe that's why she didn't think it was so bad. It's $4 It's
00:23:11
lip gloss. I'll just put it in my pocket real quick and just move on. Yeah, well, that would be I I could see
00:23:16
how you could think that, but she also had the money Mhm. to buy it. So, I'm I'm not sure
00:23:22
what the motivation would have been. But what are you thinking in your head? Like
00:23:27
I mean, this is your This is your baby sister. Yeah, I'm like, what are you doing? That's why would you do that? It
00:23:32
doesn't make any sense. As she was kind of going through that whole process, it got to a point where it was just too
00:23:39
overwhelming. Like she was having to miss classes and her her grades were dropping and she was missing practices
00:23:46
and it just wasn't fun anymore and it wasn't um she just decided it wasn't for her.
00:23:51
So, she actually voluntarily left West Point after her second year. And so, after your second year at West Point,
00:24:00
you have to sign a or take an oath to serve in the military. So, a lot of cadets
00:24:07
leave after their second year cuz they they decide at that point, hey, I don't think this military thing is is me. I
00:24:14
don't think I'm cut out for this. Right. Um and I think she realized I think she realized that. So, you What
00:24:20
you're saying is if you stay past your second year, you have to sign up to join the military. Yeah, yo yeah, you're
00:24:26
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Cheers me, matey. Cheers to you, Captain. Yes, I am here in the garage. You hear me? And if you've listened to
00:29:01
our little show before, then you know that all of our old episodes are available on the free Stitcher listening
00:29:07
app. I am saying that because we have covered Maura Murray's case several times before. And if you want to listen
00:29:14
to those, you can look up our coverage of Maura's case. This is in episodes 28 and 29 from May
00:29:20
of 2016, and also in episodes 152 and 153 from October of 2017. Now, where we left off, Captain, you are
00:29:31
kind of getting into one of the biggest questions that that takes place early on
00:29:37
in this case. One of the things out there that people have speculated on many times over. Why would Maura leave
00:29:43
West Point? Or was she kicked out? Did she get run out of there? Did she run out of there? What happened? And really,
00:29:50
truly, this is what I love when we get the opportunity to speak to family members, and to speak to people that are
00:29:58
close to these cases. Usually, you get a pretty simple answer to something that's been widely
00:30:04
speculated. Right. And this is a very simple answer that makes a lot of sense. Okay? You're going to sign up. This is a
00:30:12
hard and fast rule here. You're going to sign up for 5 years of military service.
00:30:18
That sounds scary if your heart is not into it. And it sounds like Maura's heart was not into it. I did want to
00:30:24
comment a quick thought that I had regarding the the theft of the lip gloss. Right.
00:30:32
I don't want to question her sister too much regarding her thoughts and opinions
00:30:37
on it because she was at the trial. What I find interesting there is that she still has questions about it, but
00:30:44
she was at these proceedings. Where we have an opportunity for Maura to defend herself or shine a light on
00:30:52
why was this item stolen from the from the the little store there. I almost wonder if if this is some kind
00:31:01
of not necessarily a cry for help, but almost a I'm not really digging this because of
00:31:09
maybe the military portion of what this education involves. Mhm. Maybe was this a a way out that
00:31:16
wasn't so such a serious offense? You know, I'm not a bad person, but they have such strict rules. If I do
00:31:23
something as small as this, maybe I am shoved out of here or maybe it gives me an out.
00:31:30
Yeah, or it could be just carelessness. I put something in my pocket, didn't realize it was there, walked out. Now
00:31:38
now I'm busted. Why did you steal this stuff? Well, I didn't steal the stuff. I just forgot it was there.
00:31:45
And and no matter how many times you tell somebody that and you go, "Well, here's the items back. I'm
00:31:51
you know, Mhm. I forgot it in my pocket. I've I have forgot stuff in my pocket before.
00:31:57
Uh I just never got caught. But when you know, you get to your car and you're like, "Oh, crap.
00:32:03
Why did I put that thing in my pocket?" I don't know. I just did. So, Well, and the the store, the
00:32:11
establishment, whatever it may be, can't very well just accept Right. the the idea of oh, I put it in my
00:32:17
pocket and forgot because if they just accepted that reasoning, they would have to accept
00:32:23
that 100 times a month and everybody would be putting things in their pocket and just forgetting. So, yeah, it's one
00:32:29
of those sticky situations and I just wonder you know, hearing Julie's thoughts on
00:32:35
it, I almost expected to hear more of an understanding as to why it happened other than I mean cuz really what I'm
00:32:43
left with there is either she intended to steal it and then what was the reasoning behind that? Was it that she
00:32:50
is just plain and simple a thief? Yeah, I think in the next little bit she'll actually
00:32:56
get to Mars reasoning of or explanation of what happened. Okay. Okay, because my other
00:33:04
thought is that is this just the an excuse to get out. You know, is this just a minor offense that I could commit so
00:33:13
that I can get out of something that I don't really want to do. If you had to guess what she would
00:33:34
I'll say rate her freshman year. What do you think she would rate that as? Like a one to 10.
00:33:42
10 being the best, right? Her experience or how she she did? her experience like
00:33:50
Yeah, I don't I mean she made great friends. Um the track team is very supportive. I was
00:33:56
there. I I think she did enjoy the school work. It was challenging. So I would say like maybe a seven like
00:34:04
she wasn't like over overly thrilled like I was like just want to Right. walk around in
00:34:10
my uniform all day long cuz I just love it. Um she was kind of I felt like she was kind
00:34:15
of over it like It's a lot It's a lot. It wasn't like she went there and had a nine or a 10 freshman year and
00:34:23
just it was the best year ever then all the sudden this dark cloud came over her.
00:34:28
No. No. And and then sophomore year was so bad and No, I think I think she it just
00:34:36
solidified what she already knew from the beginning. Like I I'll tell you this this one time the the very first summer
00:34:43
cadets have to go through what's called Beast Barracks and it's the cadet version of basic training. Right.
00:34:52
But it's like basic training on steroids because not only are you getting beat up
00:34:57
physically, but you're also having to memorize all of these things that I talked about earlier and you're like 17,
00:35:03
18, 19 years old and you're away from home and it's so stressful and I loved it.
00:35:10
Mar did not love it. I remember I was also I was one of the trainers. So my job as a when I was going into my junior
00:35:19
year was to train these new cadets coming in and she was one of them and I dropped
00:35:25
into her room one night just to check on her and I think I brought I was bringing her Oreos or or
00:35:31
something cuz you don't get to eat a lot Right. and I just found her just crying.
00:35:38
And just totally just unhappy. And this is the this is before she even started the academic year.
00:35:47
Right. And it it I didn't that was the first glimpse into seeing that she wasn't happy. It's like you said,
00:35:55
it's tough too when you're enjoying so many aspects of that life. Right. And I I told I kept telling her
00:36:03
when I went through that I'm like it's so awesome. Like these people yell at you and you'll they'll tell you to do
00:36:08
push-ups and you'll like be the best cuz you're in the shape and you'll do these
00:36:11
push-ups and then they'll yell at you more. And I don't know. Maybe I'm a sadomasochist
00:36:20
but I liked it and so maybe I gave her the wrong impression. She did not like it.
00:36:26
Well, no. I mean, but also just because you're a very good athlete. Different athletes are motivated by
00:36:35
different things. And like you said, you you feel like you are motivated uh with your life with
00:36:41
structure. And but she might have been um motivated more by and I don't want to use the word chaos,
00:36:50
but disorganization. So, That is Yeah, that is true. Chaos is the right word for her.
00:36:59
You're like, "No, no, stick with the chaos word." Yeah. Uh I'm Fred. My two amazing daughters,
00:37:07
they're smart, they're good-looking, they're they're very athletic, and they go to West Point. I mean, does it
00:37:17
get much better than that? And one sophomore year, which like you said, the the but the
00:37:24
stealing I don't even Is that what your family considered the lip gloss but we'll call it the lip gloss
00:37:33
incident. Is that what the family considered it stealing or was it just she just didn't know it was in her pocket. I
00:37:43
really think she just got distracted. As and so what she told me. Right. believe you know, I believed it.
00:37:54
Why else would she I don't understand why she would try to steal from a place where she knew
00:38:00
that there was people watching for that type of thing. And at this point is when
00:38:04
she like you said, she went to the the trial that was it's all pretty much conducted like with in-house,
00:38:12
and I don't even know do you want to call it a trial? Well, we call it an honor board, so it's I mean, I know I
00:38:19
don't want to call it a trial. It's Yeah, it's like an honor hearing. But this is where she'll meet her boyfriend
00:38:25
Bill Roush. Yes, that is where she met Bill. So then Mama Bear has to come out, right? And
00:38:34
And what do you think of her boyfriend? Yeah, absolutely. So Bill was Bill was actually 2 years older or two classes
00:38:42
ahead of Mara and which makes it would make him my classmate at West Point. So Bill was my classmate and I didn't
00:38:51
know Bill all that well, although it's pretty small. There's only I think my class is only like 900 people.
00:38:59
I knew of him. I hung around in the same circles as him. Um but I didn't know him that well. Um
00:39:06
but then when the honor board kicked off and he was helping Mara, like tremendously helping Mara.
00:39:14
I thought he was a good guy. So your spidey senses were telling you that this guy was okay to date your sister. Yeah,
00:39:22
and I was a little skeptical because he was 2 years older and he was my classmate, but I was
00:39:28
I mean that was okay. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, there it was probably I don't know how old
00:39:35
Bill is now, but it's not that big of an age difference whatsoever. Right, right. So no, there was nothing
00:39:42
that there was nothing that I outwardly disliked about Bill. Well, I think that it
00:39:49
it it's interesting to me cuz like you said, I think that's a key thing that maybe the inner
00:39:55
internet has missed upon is that she's leaving this school and I think the number one reason
00:40:04
would be that she wouldn't want to sign up for military duty. Yeah, that's the reason. You must not
00:40:10
want to sign up for military so much because you have a lot of things there at that school going for you have
00:40:17
you have athletics that you're excelling in. You're doing well in school. I mean,
00:40:23
yes, less in your sophomore year. Your sister's there. And she's cool. Right? I don't know if she Well,
00:40:32
I'm trying to I'm trying to butter you up right now. I don't know if she would call me cool.
00:40:37
And she's really awesome. And uh but then you have your boyfriend there. Yeah. And so it's kind of a big thing,
00:40:44
right? You go, "Okay, well now she's switching schools." And that's going to make a lot of things harder, but
00:40:51
I don't know. I'm my gut feeling is just I had to do it myself. And it was tough. It was a big deal to
00:40:58
switch schools, but what a relief it was once I got to school that I felt like I
00:41:03
belonged. So, now she gets she starts the next year on time. Is that correct? Well, she transferred her she attempted
00:41:16
to transfer all her credits from her classes at West Point, but I think that put her behind a semester
00:41:25
um at UMass. So, I think she went into UMass at a half a semester behind where she would
00:41:33
have been at West Point. The other thing I want to say about that is she she she
00:41:38
switched basically universes. She went from West Point chemical engineering military career to a she got into the
00:41:48
nursing program. Those are polar opposite things. Yeah, but a nursing program is very
00:41:57
uh difficult and time-consuming. Maybe the the level of math and certain things like that aren't going to be as high,
00:42:05
but it's a very time-consuming major. Yes, I definitely agree there and it and it's a definitely a hard program, but
00:42:13
the careers are are are are opposite. I mean, you're you're going to war or you're going to go help people. I mean,
00:42:21
let's talk about a couple of situations she gets into there. The credit card fraud.
00:42:28
So, um at UMass I Mara was using a another person's credit card to purchase um random things like pizza from
00:42:42
Domino's and subs and stuff. Right. So, I don't I didn't really get what all that was about, but other people have
00:42:49
told me that that she wasn't the only one doing it. And I'm not saying that that makes it right,
00:42:55
but I'm saying if if you really start to think about it, who is that important to?
00:43:02
Why is that important that she was doing that? Yeah, but I think by showing these actions or these
00:43:10
questionable states of behavior, that it allows people to create a narrative. Yeah, I agree. And you've got to you've
00:43:21
got to kind of peel it back and look at who are these people focusing on these small little details and what is their
00:43:28
motive? Why is it like I said, why is that important? Is it important to where Mara
00:43:35
is is it important to why she went to New Hampshire on that Monday night? In the grand scheme of things, maybe,
00:43:44
but I don't think so. Um but you know, it kind of brings me to the point of you've got
00:43:52
this cast of characters that are obsessed with this case and um some of which are using it for for
00:44:00
profit uh for some of them need content or some of them need to pick apart some of the stuff that a
00:44:09
21-year-old girl did in college to be relevant. And you know, we could we could pick apart
00:44:16
every little thing that you and I did when we were 21 and it probably look a lot worse than what
00:44:23
Mara did. I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I mean, I did some really dumb stuff.
00:44:29
Yeah, but you also had a clean room. But I did have a clean room, yeah. You know, so I mean, once you have a
00:44:36
clean room, they people trying to write books or people trying to start podcasts, if they see a
00:44:42
clean room they just keep moving. They go, "Oh, nothing to see here." Yeah, exactly.
00:44:47
Um what I'm trying to do is to get a sense of where you think she was at in her life, how she thinks how you think
00:44:54
things were going because I know with siblings I hear about the ebbs and flows. And and and sometimes your parents will
00:45:04
tell you, "Oh, things aren't going so well." So you then you reach out and check in with your brother or sister and
00:45:10
find out, "Hey, things are not actually that bad." Or they tell you things are great and then you check in and you go,
00:45:15
"Oh, things aren't that great." I but to me it seems like things are she's doing a lot better
00:45:22
and she's headed in the right direction. Yeah, and one of the things that it that
00:45:29
I can say about that is um she was doing really well in the nursing program. She was on the track team. She had a a
00:45:36
group of girlfriends that she hung out with. She kept in touch with her friends from high school pretty regularly. Um
00:45:43
more than than I ever did. Um but the other thing is she was uh a an athletic tutor.
00:45:51
So she was a tutor for other athletes. You don't just become an athletic tutor if you've you're a mess.
00:45:59
You know what I mean? Right. So Yeah. Um I don't know what the selection process
00:46:05
was or how you got to be a tutor, but um she definitely was one and um She must have met some kind of
00:46:13
qualification. Yeah, exactly. Um and she she actually had a an appointment or a session, I don't know what it's
00:46:21
called, the week that she went missing um that she didn't show up to, obviously,
00:46:28
cuz she was missing. Um so I'd be interested in trying to track down who that person was
00:46:36
she was supposed to tutor. Was that session supposed to be on that Monday? I'm not sure the exact day, but I know
00:46:45
it was that week. Yeah, cuz that's the other thing that is kind of unclear is she you know, so things are going pretty
00:46:53
well. I know there's these these phone calls that she gets at work. She seems a little upset. So,
00:47:00
one of her bosses walk her back to her dorm. Do you know who that call was to or what
00:47:06
it was about or Yeah, so that call was um with my older sister Kathleen. To the best of our knowledge from what
00:47:15
we know from phone records and talking to to everyone um that spoke to her that night. Um so she had a call with my
00:47:22
older sister Kathleen. Basically, Kathleen had just gotten out of rehab um for um alcoholism.
00:47:32
And her husband at the time picked her up from rehab and took her directly to a liquor store.
00:47:42
And Kathleen was telling Mara that. So, my thought is you know, that call was earlier in the
00:47:50
night. I think it was about 10 10:00 p.m. ish. Um and Mara was at her security desk job where she would check
00:47:57
people's IDs to get into the dorm room at UMass. And she hung up the phone with Kathleen.
00:48:05
Um That wait, also another job that they don't give to people that are barely making it by. Exactly,
00:48:12
yeah. Struggling to get through school. Yeah. Yeah, and that was one of her jobs. She
00:48:17
had she had another job. So, she had two jobs. Uh So, she was she was on the go. Like, she
00:48:24
was doing a lot. How mad was How mad was your dad about her having two jobs? Well,
00:48:32
I don't even know if my dad knew, to be honest. Um but I know he knew about one of them, but
00:48:39
I'm not sure if he knew she worked in an art gallery as well. I'm not sure if if
00:48:42
he knew about that. He probably did cuz he loves art and stuff like that. But, yeah, so she gets this call. That's
00:48:48
pretty upsetting. It's a pretty upsetting call to get from your sister who you care about and for that to
00:48:55
happen, um Kathleen was probably upset and disappointed in herself and felt like a
00:49:02
failure and I know Mara was the type of person that would have tried to be stoic and calm Kathleen down and and
00:49:11
you know, be that rock for her. Right. I was just going to say that sometimes you can be a rock for the
00:49:17
person on the phone, but when you get off the phone, then you you have to um let out that sadness or that negative
00:49:26
energy yourself. Absolutely. And so, that's kind of what I think happened. I think it really upset Mara that that
00:49:33
phone call with Kathleen and I think she wasn't able to release any of those emotions with
00:49:40
Kathleen in the state that she was. And so, it she probably and she was at her job. Um so,
00:49:47
she didn't have this breakdown until later towards the end of her shift where maybe she couldn't hold it together any
00:49:54
longer and you know, like you said, you can't hold that in and Mara was was emotional um and so she just had this
00:50:03
breakdown to the point where the student boss, I guess you'd call it um came or was notified and came to where
00:50:12
Mara was sitting and basically escorted Mara um back to her room. The other thing that people question a lot is that
00:50:19
your dad came to visit her the weekend before she went missing. Yes. Um my dad came up
00:50:28
from Connecticut to visit Mara and the purpose of his visit was to buy a new car, not a new car, a a new used
00:50:38
car. Right, new to her. New to her, yep. Yeah. Um That's That's what kind of cars
00:50:45
we got, too. All right. I don't I didn't know what a new car was. Yeah. Uh Exactly.
00:50:52
like, you mean somebody else's car? I believe they went and looked at some cars.
00:50:58
Uh and possibly called around, but there wasn't anything that he was particularly
00:51:03
in love with. Well, actually no, that um they did find They They narrowed down They narrowed it down to two two cars
00:51:12
Mhm. that weekend. They They went to several different locations. Um Mara's uh boyfriend Bill actually bought a car
00:51:20
somewhere at at one of the locations that they looked at himself. And so they went there and they
00:51:26
Bill Bill Rausch bought a car Yep. during this trip. No, no, no, no, before, prior.
00:51:32
Bill bought bought a car at a previous trip to UMass to visit Mara. Okay. Yep. So, Mara and my dad went to that
00:51:41
location to say, "Hey, do you Let me Let me see what your inventory is, what do you have?"
00:51:45
They found one vehicle that was kind of in the right price range. I think that vehicle was
00:51:52
um I want to say $4,000 I believe. Then they went to another location. This is on that Saturday.
00:52:01
Uh and they found another car which was a better car. I can't remember the brand, but I know it was red. Um
00:52:09
but that car was $6,000. And that's the car that my dad wanted to get for her tomorrow because it was a
00:52:16
little bit it was a better brand or something. I'm It might have been a I don't know what kind it was.
00:52:21
But anyway, my dad only my dad deals in cash um because when you're trying to go
00:52:26
deal with used car salesman, cash is king. And so he had to you sound like my father. Cash is king.
00:52:34
Cash is king. Yes. Yes, I know dad. I know dad. I mean and my dad's a pretty skilled negotiator
00:52:40
when it comes to dealing with those old school type of guys that typically work at uh used cars places.
00:52:48
Yeah, but back in the day car car dealerships were different you and you could also you couldn't just call your
00:52:54
bank and tell them run my card for six grand. No. There was limits and stuff like that. So
00:53:02
the fact that he'd be dealing with cash makes the most sense in the world. But a lot of people then have taken this
00:53:09
idea that they were going to go look for a car which like if you had to rate her car
00:53:15
at one one to 10, what would you rate it? It was like a two. It was it was trash.
00:53:23
It was not good. Right. And so they're going up to get a car, but then there's been all this speculation that
00:53:32
your father gave her this money which there's I can't find proof of that that he gave her the money. And then
00:53:40
they say that she was pregnant. And that's why she's been missing all these years cuz she was pregnant and she
00:53:47
was and your dad was helping her run away. Yeah, that's just crazy talk to me. That's someone that needs to
00:53:56
needs some content or needs to make this sensationalize this. That is not what happened and um just as some background
00:54:05
like my dad deals in cash and not only with card, you know, dealing with cars. He just He always has cash all the time
00:54:13
and I guarantee you when he was looking at those cars, he I'm I'm pretty sure he
00:54:18
probably flashed his cash in front of whoever it was to try to get a, you know, a
00:54:24
a better deal on the car. Um and listen, his his bank was in Connecticut. And it's not like
00:54:34
it's not like they had SunTrust and I don't know, Bank of America. Um Yeah, so it's not like she could just get
00:54:48
a bunch of cash out from anywhere. Back then actually, I think his his bank account
00:54:54
might have been out of East or yeah, Eastern Mass. But whatever, it wasn't it wasn't near
00:55:01
UMass. Um and so he had limits on how much he could withdraw. He knew he wanted the cash because to incentivize
00:55:08
the dealer to give him a better better deal. The bottom line was he wanted to get
00:55:14
Mara the more expensive car and he didn't have the the other $2,000. So, he told her, "I'm going to come back next
00:55:21
weekend and we're going to get you this car." The other reason why time was of the essence for her to get this car was
00:55:29
bec- part of her nursing program required her to go to clinicals. And so she had to travel to all these different
00:55:37
hospitals for these clinical rotations that she had. And part of the the process with that was she had to confirm
00:55:45
that she had reliable transportation, which she did not. Um so she she needed this car to go to these clinicals cuz
00:55:51
she was just bumming rides from her classmates. You can only miss so many uh clinicals. These are huge in a nursing
00:56:01
program and some places you that you can't even miss one. Uh if you miss one, you have to do a
00:56:07
makeup. So to miss one uh could have been a big no-no. Yeah, absolutely. And she was
00:56:14
doing so well in the program. I don't think she wanted to take that risk. Um and it this is just speculation on my
00:56:21
part, but she could have told her professors she needed time off uh and there was a death in the family. So that
00:56:30
she could buy some time to get this new car um and not basically lie and say for whatever reason
00:56:38
she had to go and it could have been to take care of her reinstatement fee in New Hampshire, which she knew she had a
00:56:45
she got a speeding ticket in New Hampshire the um couple months prior to her going missing.
00:56:50
Um so it kind of all kind of comes together into a a theory that that's why she was going
00:56:58
up to New Hampshire in the first place. All right, so let's all right, let's stay on that for a second. So
00:57:03
and I believe this is like new information that that for 15 years we've wondered
00:57:09
why she was there and then what happened. And I believe we have the most plausible reason
00:57:18
of what why she was there. So your dad comes to visit. He's going to buy her a car. They find one, but
00:57:25
it's not the car that she wanted. So now she decides that she he going to she's going to go
00:57:33
to an area that she went on vacation with your father and Bill. And during that time she got a speeding
00:57:44
ticket. Yes. And so she then didn't pay the speeding ticket. No, she she did pay the speeding ticket.
00:57:55
She actually she was required to appear because she got a 99 the speeding ticket
00:58:01
was 99 miles per hour so it was pretty pretty fast. Right. She had to appear and pay a
00:58:08
pretty hefty fine which she paid the fine for the speeding but they she never paid the reinstatement fee or
00:58:17
we don't know whether she's paid the reinstatement fee. Right. So the it looks like they probably suspended her
00:58:22
license for a time period and then they wanted her to pay a reinstatement fee. Right.
00:58:28
And then so she didn't pay that fee. So so you believe that on that Monday when she then tells
00:58:38
her school and work and everybody look there's a family emergency and I got to take care of this and then I'll
00:58:46
be back. So the thought is that she was going to drive up there Monday either pay
00:58:54
then stay somewhere and then go back to your father's house? Well, yeah it was my mother's house at the time but that
00:59:01
yeah that's sort of what the the theory is but basically she she got into an accident that that
00:59:09
Saturday night prior to her going missing on Monday after they her and my dad went car shopping
00:59:17
and so the thought is that's when she learned that she had a suspended license that required her to
00:59:26
show up in person in New Hampshire to pay a reinstatement fee. Because I'm not sure how else she would
00:59:31
have known that her license was suspended in New Hampshire. So, although her license wasn't
00:59:39
suspended in Massachusetts, you know, if the the officer at the accident in Hadley on that Saturday
00:59:46
would have run her license, um he may have seen that. And just said, "Hey, do you know you have this issue?"
00:59:53
Yeah, and the accident on Saturday, she just ran off the road? Yeah, she just Flipped off the road?
01:00:01
She just Yeah, ran off went into a She was at a T intersection and just went straight forward and hit the guardrail.
01:00:08
So, then she she is driven back by the police officer to your father's hotel because he's visiting
01:00:16
trying to help his daughter get a car. Yeah, well, she she she jumped in the tow The The officer on the scene did not
01:00:23
cite her for DUI. She He let her go. Um she didn't get any She didn't get anything and he allowed
01:00:33
her to jump in the tow truck and the tow truck took the car, the my dad's Corolla
01:00:39
to wherever they take it, which happens to which happened to be right next to where my dad's hotel was. And so, she
01:00:46
jumped in and just Right. went to the hotel. So, okay. So, have you talked to your dad about this?
01:00:53
Did he Did he think she was intoxicated? Cuz you said she didn't get a DUI or OMVUI?
01:01:00
Yeah, so I mean, it's pure speculation. Who can say Who can say whether she was intoxicated or not. Right.
01:01:08
Obviously a not for the not enough for the officer to think that she deserved to be arrested for it.
01:01:14
Yeah, and I mean, we're talking about UMass. It's I would say over half the student body
01:01:21
is intoxicated on Saturday night. Um Um Mhm. But that I you know, I'm not I think
01:01:27
That doesn't mean they should be driving though, do you? Oh, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And even if even
01:01:33
if she was overtired, she shouldn't have been driving. Um Right. But yeah, I totally agree with you.
01:01:39
But I think the police officer, like I said, if if it was apparent she's been heavily
01:01:44
drinking, he's not going to let her off like that. No. I just I don't buy that for 1 minute. So he lets her go
01:01:51
back. How about you just jump in the tow truck and then go back to your dad's hotel. And another thing about the
01:01:59
internet that I mean with this case and I find this just absolutely appalling and disgusting is
01:02:09
is some of the stuff that people then have speculated or assumed because Fred has a hotel and his daughter's
01:02:18
going to stay in the hotel with him. How has that kind of speculation you know, against your father uh
01:02:28
I just don't even want to say the words. I don't want to rehash what they're speculating, but I
01:02:35
mean, how how does that affect you? I mean, it's just sick. It it really is because
01:02:42
number one, um there was two beds in that room. Right. And it it's really upsetting
01:02:50
because obviously whoever's spreading this does has doesn't know my dad. Um And to say those things about a father
01:02:59
with a missing child is nothing other than sick. And there's there's got to be a motive
01:03:06
behind why anyone would say that. And I think it's pretty clear what the motive is for any
01:03:12
for whoever's saying that. So she ends up talking to your father. Your sister ends up talking to your father.
01:03:18
Talking to her boyfriend that night. Well, let me let me just clear the record on that. So, when she got back to
01:03:24
the hotel room in the tow truck, she couldn't get into the his room. Um so, she actually
01:03:35
kind of dozed off on the couch in the lobby of that hotel. Right. She didn't have a key to the room
01:03:42
and I don't know whether she didn't want to wake my dad or there was maybe a lobby
01:03:48
um door that you had to have a key to the room to get in. I'm not sure of the exact circumstances, but my dad didn't
01:03:54
know that anything even happened until the next morning um when he woke up. Um somehow she I guess when the the um
01:04:07
front desk person came, I don't know if it was manned 24 hours or whatever, somehow she got to access to my dad's
01:04:15
room later on in the morning and she used his cell phone to call Bill and tell Bill what happened and then
01:04:24
that's when she told my dad what happened. She has a cell phone. We know she has a
01:04:28
cell phone, but it's possibly dead at that point and then Well, she left it she left the cell phone at the dorms.
01:04:36
Right. So, she didn't have her own cell phone. It was so nice back in the day when we
01:04:41
could do that. Just leave the Just leave your cell phone at home. You don't need it. Yeah, I think we'd all
01:04:47
freak out, right? Well, I mean that's but but here's another point that I think it's
01:04:52
interesting for people to hear is there's tons of people that have investigated that this case. There's tons of people
01:05:03
that have looked at this case and to just talk about the time that she gets in a wreck on Saturday and then she goes
01:05:08
back to the hotel with her father and I have never heard that she actually had to go to the lobby first and sleep
01:05:15
on the couch. Yep. I mean, this is the misinformation that gets put out there. Not for every case, but for a lot of
01:05:23
cases, there's little and and does that have anything to do with her going missing? Probably not,
01:05:28
but it's just to show that not all details or things that are people are reporting should everybody take as fact.
01:05:37
I agree and I think that my kind of rule of thumb with this is to to fig- figure out the motive behind why
01:05:46
people are saying certain things. And it's been 16 years and you know, I've figured out there there's a few
01:05:52
loud voices surrounding this case um and their motives are pretty uh apparent. Um and so I don't really let
01:06:00
that that type of stuff really get to me and distract me from what my opinion is and my motive, which
01:06:06
is to find my sister. So you're So you're telling me that not pregnant and your father's not
01:06:13
paying for her to start a new life. Yes. I can't believe I have to say this. Um yes, that's what I'm saying. The $4,000
01:06:23
was to buy her a new buy her a car that actually ran with all cylinders firing. And
01:06:31
she So there's I I have to address it. I can't believe I do. But the rumor about
01:06:36
the pregnancy um issue is that her computer showed searches for pregnancy terms, maternity
01:06:44
terms. And that's because her homework assignment was she was going through a maternity cycle. And so her
01:06:53
literal homework was to look up maternity terms. Julie, that sounds a little too convenient.
01:07:00
I mean I mean it's not a good story. It's not It's not salacious and it's Yeah, and I And also she was on birth
01:07:10
control and the birth control she had four pills missing out of the her current pack of birth control. Right,
01:07:16
that was found one of the items found in her car. So, and the other thing too is there's been
01:07:22
multiple accounts that after the first year of her going missing your father's up there every
01:07:27
weekend and then it I think then he kind of goes down to every other weekend and then eventually
01:07:35
every 3 weeks he's going up there. But, that's Yeah, that that's hurtful. That is
01:07:41
really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that because I sat there and I watched my dad for 10 years.
01:07:46
I mean, we're going on 16 years y'all, but for 10 years that man that poor man drove up to New Hampshire from whether
01:07:53
he was in Connecticut or down at the Cape at the time. Most sometimes and most of the times all by himself on that
01:07:59
lonely road. And I just can't imagine I wish I could have been there on some of those trips with him. I just can't
01:08:05
imagine what he's thinking for 4 hours in his car. And then for people to say, "Well, he
01:08:10
didn't go up there enough." That man could not have gone up there any more than he he did.
01:08:16
And it it's really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that. Every weekend. I mean,
01:08:21
you have to make a living you have to pay your bills and then every weekend you're going and that's that is not
01:08:27
coming from I did not hear that from anybody in your family. I heard that from volunteers, people that were helping
01:08:34
him. And then to continue to do that every year and continued to do that every weekend when you're finding no new
01:08:42
information. I mean, that I think there's a level of love and care that you just naturally have for
01:08:52
somebody in your family. If he didn't have that for your sister, there's it would be impossible
01:08:59
to do what he did in the amount of searches and the hours he searched and the amount of money he spent searching.
01:09:05
Yeah, and I mean and like I said before, all by himself most of the time. I was in the army or in you know, in my
01:09:13
government job and wasn't able to to get up there as much as I would have liked.
01:09:18
When he went up there, all he hit was roadblocks. He just hit roadblock after roadblock.
01:09:24
And two years into the case after hitting all these roadblocks, the man who supposedly took $4,000 out
01:09:31
to help Maura run away is pleading for the release of all the records at the New Hampshire Supreme Court,
01:09:40
pleading to get the FBI involved. Now, what man who's trying to help his daughter escape
01:09:46
pleads for the FBI? And also with the speculation out there that she was that she ran away to start a new life
01:09:54
because your father was sexually abusive or physically abusive for her to get in a crash on that
01:10:00
Saturday and then tell the police officer, "Oh, don't take me to my dorm. Take me to my father's hotel." That
01:10:07
doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We're we're we're getting logical here. I don't know I don't know
01:10:11
I don't know if the internet can handle that. But then the abusive person that is abusing the person because they don't
01:10:18
care about them cares so much that they go search for them by themselves. It There's just no
01:10:26
logical sense nor is there evidence. And that's the thing that has really drove me nuts about people talking about your
01:10:34
sister. People that claim that they're looking for your sister. People that are claiming that they're they're
01:10:41
they have a that they're doing this for good uh making accusations and speculations
01:10:48
with no evidence. And so So that So that Monday we believe that she was going up
01:10:55
with this with the new theory that I believe is based off of actual evidence that she was going up
01:11:03
to that area to pay pay that ticket. Yeah, and I'm not married to any theory and I'm
01:11:12
not pushing a theory. I don't know where Maura is. I don't know what happened to her.
01:11:19
I'm open to I have to be open to all possibilities and all theories. Um not wild speculation, but based on
01:11:28
what we do know, um we can kind of narrow it down a bit. Um but like I said, I'm not I'm not convinced that
01:11:35
this is the theory and I'm going to you know, push this narrative. Um but it's possible. It's possible. I just
01:11:44
haven't heard that many logical reasons why she should be in that area. And this to me sounds like a actual
01:11:52
logical reason. Yeah, I I mean I I I definitely agree. I I wish I knew. I wish I I knew the answer to why she was
01:12:01
there. I wish somebody did. I wish she would have told somebody. Like I said, like
01:12:07
before I've I've said it so many times that it doesn't make it doesn't make sense
01:12:13
for her to be there and it wasn't smart and she wasn't supposed to drive the Saturn.
01:12:18
And she didn't drive the Saturn when my dad was around because he she knew that um
01:12:25
he'd get her for it and say what are you doing? This is also why he said, "Hey, while
01:12:31
I'm at my hotel, not using my car, why don't you use my car? Go go hang out. Use my car."
01:12:37
Exactly. But I will say that I do know that occasionally, I guess when she couldn't
01:12:43
find any other person to take her where she needed to go, she would jump in the Saturn and drive it short distances um
01:12:50
because Right. in one of her emails to her um, high school friends, she referenced
01:12:55
getting stuck in the snow in her stupid Saturn or I don't know what term she used. So, she jumps in her Saturn, she's
01:13:02
going to go. We know that she stops at a ATM. We that footage was finally released. I think the biggest thing
01:13:10
about them releasing that ATM footage was you not knowing if you've seen the jacket that she was wearing. Part of
01:13:17
part of that statement, I mean, when you when I'm on the Oxygen show and I'm saying that and I'm I'm looking at the
01:13:25
computer screen that they put in front of me, that is the very first time in my entire life that I had seen that. And
01:13:32
I was trying to hold it together. I was really just trying to say something. Um and I don't know what made me say that,
01:13:42
but it's true. I mean, I didn't recognize the jacket, but I was in such shock and it it's a hard thing to to it
01:13:49
was a hard thing for me to see. Especially with cameras all over me and I'm trying to play it cool and be like,
01:13:54
you know, not get super emotional. Um, and so I'm like, I don't recognize the jacket. I'm
01:14:00
like, why did I say that? That's not appropriate thing to say, but it was true. It's just where my mind went.
01:14:06
Um, but that was that was hard. Yeah. emotional because you have been through so much and your
01:14:13
family has been through so much. And then you guys see this picture and that's the last
01:14:19
known recording of her. Yeah, and I've stared at those pictures, I've analyzed those pictures, I've zoomed in and
01:14:25
zoomed out just to kind of like try to read her expression, try to figure out her state of mind because I
01:14:33
knew Maura better than anyone. And the the unfortunately the still shots that we were shown are pretty bad
01:14:43
quality. Yeah. Um I can't tell you how how many times I've stared at those pictures cuz it it
01:14:50
literally is the last time I've see her. Sometimes when I say I love you, it feels like a habit, you know? But when I
01:15:14
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01:15:35
Thank you to everybody for joining us here in the garage today. Join us back here again tomorrow for much more on
01:15:41
this case. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.