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[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who
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says movies don't create psychos movies make psychos more creative here is the captain it's good to be seen and good to
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tappy Hey listen to True Crime garage it's awesome you'll love it and maybe tell them your favorite episode to start
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with and Colonel that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime [Music] here [Music] is good [Music] the FBI and Arizona police are still
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looking for a wanted man Jason Derek Brown who is accused and responsible for a 2004 armed robbery that resulted in a
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homicide this guy has been on the run for 18 years now and as we discussed yesterday Captain we brought up the fact
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that we covered the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives list back in 2017 and I pointed out that the list has changed
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considerably since then there's only one individual still on the list that I believe was on the list when we
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discussed it five years ago and in fact our episode may have done some good because there was change to the list
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within days of us releasing our episode so if you go to truecrime garage.com and
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you check out our blog most weeks when we put out an episode we put up a a Blog on that case and you can get on there
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and you could submit a tip you could ask a question about that week's shows you could provide some information a lot of
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times we get locals people that are local to the case that we just covered that they get on there with some
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somewhat Insider information that you would kind of have to be a local to know and they give us a little more details
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about the crime or the person that we might be looking for if it's a missing person's case but if you go to our blog
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and you check back from 2017 on the Most Wanted episodes you'll see that we had some good people get on there and
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comment and one of the individuals was a Kylie from New Jersey who posted that just three days after we released our
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episodes Walter yovani Gomez was apprehended he was somebody that was on the list New Jersey gang member Walter
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yovani Gomez wanted in connection with a brutal murder was arrested without incident August 11 2017 they found him
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in Woodbridge Virginia and then a week later a little more than a week later Louis macedo
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was apprehended August 26th in Mexico and Sarah from Parts Unknown says I like to think that it was because someone
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heard this episode and checked out the list yeah and we're still waiting on our checks from the FBI yeah yeah there
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would have been rewards in both of those cases and so good to see that the quick
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apprehension of some of these people that were on the list as we stated yesterday Jason Derek Brown is no longer
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on the list but they're going to have a spot opening up so I'm hoping that they use the excuse of this movie to place
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him back on the list and to really put him back into the eyes of the media and it was this case being in the media that
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led to a bunch of sightings you know everybody wants to know where could this guy be where is he there were several
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sightings we mentioned yesterday that he speaks fluent French and there were possible sightings in Canada he's also
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saw somebody that was raised in the Mormon community and for a while at least there were they were getting
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sightings of Jason Derek Brown in the greater Salt Lake City area investigators even went so far to say
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publicly that they believed that Jason Derek Brown may have been hiding in plain sight among the Mormon community
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under an assumed identity and then there were locations as far away as Quebec and
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Thailand that have been referenced in the Jason Derrick Brown case as well one thing that I found in my research here
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captain that I found fascinating was an article from April 20th 2020 from the Richland source
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and the title of their article was authorities Arizona fugitive sought for murder may have been spotted in
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Mansfield Ashland Ohio area there's a picture of Jason Derek Brown in the article and the Articles coming out of
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Mansfield Ohio and it says authorities are seeking and Arizona man sought for murder that has possibly been spotted in
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the Mansfield Ashland area of Ohio Jason Derrick Brown 50 he would have been 50 in April of 2020 of Phoenix Arizona
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headlines this week's list of most wanted fugitives compiled by the Northern Ohio violent fugitive task
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force and Richland County division for the week of April 20th Brown is 5 foot 10 inches tall 175 pounds approximately
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with green eyes and blonde hair he is wanted for murder and armed robbery and Phoenix authorities did not
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say where or when he may have been spotted in this Richland County area of Ohio but urged citizens to not engage
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with him but call for help immediately on based off his age I mean at this point his hair might not be blonde it
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might be Gray and and you'd think that the stress of running from the law enforcement for the
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last 14 years would maybe add to those gray hairs but I'm going to just put this out there
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a con man maybe the job gets a little easier as you get older because you wouldn't be suspecting
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an older gentleman to try to con you well and let's let the experts weigh in on the possibilities of
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where he could be too so going back to Lance leasing special agent Lance leasing who was
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the agent in charge of this Manhunt and portions of the investigation that led to this Manhunt when he's asked he was
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asked you know not just where could he be but also do you think that Jason Derek Brown may
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have committed suicide that maybe he's no longer alive and leasing goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are
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some family members that will and friends that say that they think that happened Leeson goes on to say quote
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it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say that that is what they think happened he
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goes on to say I don't know why he fled for a while he planned the flight the agent says that he believes Jason Derek
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Brown was ready for this they that he could run at a moment's notice which is what he did obviously and so he said
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that based off of that information that he does not believe that suicide would be something that Jason would do and he
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says I'm not a psychologist but he doesn't want to get into the minds of all of that stuff too much but he says
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if you think of yourself that much that highly of yourself is what he's saying suicide is probably be not at the top of
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the list of things that he's going to do well we know what he got from the robbery but we also don't know what
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other robberies he might have been involved in so we don't really know how much like
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like they said FBI the FBI believes that this individual could have ran at any time and maybe was planning for that how
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long was he playing in that four and how much money did he have stash back to do so and did he have other
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resources that he already had set up did he set up other accounts did he already
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come up with an alias did he already establish an identity alternative identity these are I mean he was a con
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man for so long and I don't believe that Jason was a dumb individual I believe he
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he did have a brain in him well a big enough brain that he was able to con people out of money right and
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continually steal from people and commit fraud over and over again and one thing
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that I thought was interesting too is that the reporter asked the agent well what about plastic surgery do you think
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that that's something that he Jason Derrick Brown may consider to change his look very dramatically the agent's
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answer is look the pictures we have of him are old so he's going to change look and appearance just in age alone but
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also um that this plastic surgery was something that Jason Derek Brown may have discussed with family at some point
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and that that would of course change potentially changes look dramatically right and that yes Jason would have
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every reason to want to continue to hide from the FBI and hide from the authorities so he of
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course does not want to look anything like the pictures out there the pictures of him that are
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out there another thing that's very fascinating to me is like I was saying before this guy gets his validation from
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outside sources but he did live a pretty normal life up until some point when there was a switch that was flipped
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and so could an individual go back to that again you see a guy just working a regular job
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driving a pickup truck you know change his hair color maybe changed his nose and you go
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that that does it doesn't look like the same guy it doesn't act like the same guy
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and maybe that's why we haven't caught him yet but it's also super fascinating because he's not the only individual in
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the family that's missing that's correct his father's been missing for even longer than Jason has been missing so
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that then that makes you wonder was he able and let's just go over his father's story real quickly it seems like his
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father was a little bit of a con man got into some gambling and things of that nature
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maybe even some gang activity right and and so some people go well he's he's not
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alive anymore he was taken out by people and then other people say well he's on the run from those people
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not law enforcement but maybe Kings or or organized crime so is it possible that
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he had some contact with his father and was they they're on the run together yeah
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it's really interesting because his sister of course is portrayed in the movie American murderer and and plays a
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large role in this overall story this true crime story but she's on record as saying that she believes or at least at
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one time did believe that The Disappearance of Jason Derek Brown's father and Jason himself being on the
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Run were were completely tied and completely connected and she believed that it could be connected in one of two
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ways either the father their father has stayed on the Run successfully for all of these
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years and somehow Jason learned how to stay a ghost based off of his father being a ghost
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or the other way that it could be connected in her mind was she said that there are days that she thinks that
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maybe Jason Derek Brown is responsible for The Disappearance of his father that and the way that she worded it
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captain and her tone doesn't make it sound like he helped his father to disappear in this sense that maybe he
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killed his father and made him disappear right that right the the murder of the Armed Guard is not his first murder
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look we know he's capable of a heinous murder does that make him capable of murder and
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his father absolutely and then is that the only two or there are other murders that are involved because of
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Jason Brown constantly trying to con people and probably getting into some sticky situations and maybe sometimes
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murdering somebody is the way out of that sticky situation the FBI has also stated that they have reason to believe
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that at some point and they don't give it clear information like the more the public knows the more
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the public has the chance to help you guys here but they state that they have information that at some point while
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Jason Derek Brown was on the run that he likely visited people he knew in the Salt Lake City area but then an agent
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goes on and this is interesting too this is something for I hope the listeners ears perk up a little bit and they pay
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extra attention to this because because again our purpose of us covering Jason Derek
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Brown again is for the purpose of apprehending him just like when we covered the list five years ago but an
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agent says quote it's very hard for individuals to change the way they live the way they behave
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this is a guy who stays in shape likes Fitness likes to look good we are hoping that he is seen at a nightclub or a
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fitness club and then they go on to say that he Jason Derek Brown is an outdoorsy type as well
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so he would be very comfortable Outdoors well one of the people listening to our
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coverage of the most wanted list in 2017 was writer and director Matthew Gentile
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who is responsible for putting out this fine film American murderer which is in theaters now I'll give a little
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description of the movie Here Captain it's obviously based on a true story they say this riveting Thriller follows
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murder and American fugitive Jason Derrick Brown a charismatic con man bankrolling his extravagant lifestyle
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through a series of scams Jason Derek Brown is played by Tom Pelfrey on Brown's Trail is Lance leasing a
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dogged FBI special agent played by Ryan Philippe Lance leasing is determined to put Brown Behind Bars when Brown's funds
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run low and his pass catches up with him he plots his most elaborate scheme yet pitting himself against
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the special agent in a deadly game of cat and mouse and becoming the most unlikely and Elusive fugitive on the
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FBI's most wanted list we'll get to that interview with Matthew right after this
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quick year break foreign [Music] [Music] for the very first time we have screenwriter and director Matthew
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Gentile who is here to talk about his new true crime movie that is coming out based all on a true story or mostly on a
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true story and we'll get into reasons why here in a bit Matthew introduce yourself to the audience tell us a
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little bit who you are and tell us about this wonderful film that's coming out hi
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Nick hi Captain thank you so much for having me um as you said my name is Matthew
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genteel I'm a filmmaker and this is my first feature film American murderer it's a true crime Thriller about Jason
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Derek Brown charismatic con man who became the FBI's most unlikely and Elusive top 10 fugitive it'll be coming
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out in theaters October 21st on demand digital October 28th and I'm here to talk about it with this movie the case
00:19:07
it's based on and with you and your with you you and the captain and your incredible audience and I'm excited to
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connect I'm a fan of the podcast so I'm very grateful to you guys for having me on this will be my first True Crime
00:19:19
podcast as recording it so I'm excited to chat with you well welcome in and we covered a little bit of the Jason Derek
00:19:27
Brown story years ago when we explored the FBI's top 10 most wanted fugitive list with our listeners and at
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the time Jason Derek Brown was one of the criminals that was on that list the FBI
00:19:45
was seeking this individual and this is very much a an FBI case as well as a local case for the local police there in
00:19:54
the greater Phoenix Arizona area now this is still a bit of an unsolved case because Jason Derek Brown while he has
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been removed from the top ten he is still a wanted fugitive the FBI and authorities are still looking for
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him because he is wanted for murder and other crimes how do you how does a Matthew Gentile
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how do you get involved in this story how how did you become aware of Jason Derrick Brown his
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crimes and and then you have to to write this you have to almost live in the mind of this
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individual or at least have him on your mind for quite some time well first off it's a great question thank you for
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asking me that uh Captain Nick um the way I became the story came to me was when I was
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between the ages of 10 and 14 uh before I wanted to be a filmmaker I wanted to be an FBI agent so I used to have a
00:20:56
habit of going on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list on their website and looking
00:21:00
at it to see you know if I could help them catch a fugitive for the reward money I was a foolish naive dream I had
00:21:06
as a kid um I learned about the top 10 list from watching the movie Silence of the Lambs
00:21:11
and then it's less good sequel Hannibal where they showed the FBI top 10 list on
00:21:16
a computer so my tenure my 11 year old brain ran with that and would go on the list and look at the fugitives and on
00:21:21
the FBI top 10 list as you two know from your episode and your coverage on the FBI top 10 list that there's a lot of
00:21:28
there's a sea of pretty menacing mean faces you know you've got Whitey Bulger Osama Bin Laden and quite sophisticated
00:21:35
high level and high operating criminals and then you have on that list this surfer dude from Southern California
00:21:41
with spiky blonde hair who looks so much like Sean and that as I'm sure you know from what
00:21:47
you've read about the case the Jean Penn's body double was arrested twice in the Years Jason's been missing so you
00:21:52
know the first thing I think when anyone sees any image of Jason Derek Brown regardless of my film or before it you
00:21:59
know they think this guy you know it's always been that there was always a little bit of that so his face stood out
00:22:04
to me age 14 uh when I I was 14 years old when the crime was committed he became a top 10 fugitive a few years
00:22:11
later in 2007 but I remembered his face on the on the fbi.gov site so cut to you
00:22:18
know we're about 12 years later I graduated from film school at AFI American Film Institute and you know I
00:22:25
was lucky two short films I had made I made a western and a film about a rock star losing his hearing those two films
00:22:31
were playing a lot over the festival circuit I was getting a lot of attention for them and I was trying to figure out
00:22:37
what would be my first feature as a filmmaker and that's kind of always the big thing when someone when you graduate
00:22:43
film school or you have a short film that does well is everyone says what's your future and I was kicking around a
00:22:48
couple different ideas attached to various Brothers I've always liked films in the crime Thriller drama space you
00:22:54
know the movie that made me want to be a filmmaker is a classic true crime film Dog Day Afternoon you know I've read
00:23:00
that when I was 12 and became obsessed with it my father showed it to me and I my mom bought me the screenplay as a
00:23:07
Hanukkah gift because they used to sell screenplays on Street stands in New York
00:23:11
City and she saw me eyeing and she bought it for me for ten dollars and that was the first time I read a script
00:23:16
so for me I always loved films about anti-heroes um you know criminals you know for me
00:23:21
like a lot of my kids my age were into Pokemon and uh you know whatever it was at the time for me it was gangster's
00:23:27
Convent criminals that was my that was those are my Pokemon so you know I'm I'm out of school I'm
00:23:35
figuring out what my next you know what my first feature is going to be and I'm storyboarding for a shoot I was shooting
00:23:41
a commercial at the time and I'm drawing on my images and whenever I storyboard I
00:23:45
uh I always have something on the background usually it's a it's a true crime docu-series of some kind
00:23:51
and all of a sudden out of nowhere Jason's face popped onto my TV screen the same and I just all like you know it
00:23:59
had been 12 years since I've maybe even thought of him or her you know it but it
00:24:03
just it came rushing back I just saw and I was like that's weird and so I started
00:24:08
watching it neglected my storyboards and I said to myself oh my God this guy is still missing he's still out there
00:24:15
how what happened how did that and so I became you know pretty unraptured and you know I have a mentor named Billy Ray
00:24:22
he's a top screenwriter he's written films like Captain Phillips and The Hunger Games and you know just a great
00:24:27
great writer and great guy and he said to me like his rule of if he should write a script is if I don't if I wake
00:24:32
up thinking about the project that's the project I should do it's a great barometer I think for any you know
00:24:38
anyone in any field and I I couldn't stop thinking about this movie I just you know watching the story about Jason
00:24:44
but you see you know it goes back to what we were talking about earlier for me the movie is as much about Jason
00:24:50
Derek Brown as it is about the web and the people who knew him and who loved him and you know does the various lenses
00:24:57
through which we see Jason throughout the film so for me you know at first it was like
00:25:02
okay cool this has a lot of elements of like a fun pulpy crime Thriller you know
00:25:06
an armored car Heist you know a con man I love Convent stories but what ultimately became the emotional engine
00:25:12
for me and my way in as a filmmaker you know because to me American murder is a movie about family that's the theme
00:25:19
uh every movie to me is a theme and for American murderer it's family um but you know that came through you
00:25:25
know multiple rewrites and drafts and so you know basically the process of how it went
00:25:32
about getting bags I'm assuming you from your question you want to know about that as well you know the the way it
00:25:38
came from an idea of okay here's this guy Jason Derek Brown who interested me when I wanted to be an FBI agent too how
00:25:45
does this become a movie at first I began writing the script you know on spec which means just you know on my own
00:25:52
on my own time thinking maybe you know I could try to sell the script because it
00:25:56
felt ambitious for a first-time director you know to do it's a big you know pretty big movie for that but as I
00:26:03
started writing it I just wanted to research the case you know I started I did begin
00:26:08
interviewing some people I'm not going to name exactly who because I don't want to out them but I did interview people
00:26:12
who knew Jason and were associated or Associates of Associates and I began to gather a lot of Intel information in
00:26:18
addition to reading everything I could get my hands on that was out there which on this case there is a lot of stuff
00:26:24
um so I became pretty obsessed I resembled Jake Gyllenhaal's character in zodiac I just want to know everything I
00:26:30
could and then I began to write a script um and you know the first versions of the script were actually like just
00:26:37
really going with Jason's point of view but what if ultimately the king as the movie progressed was an
00:26:46
ensemble film or it's really about seeing Jason through all these various perspectives and you know we um you know
00:26:53
at first the way the thing that really got it going was I made a proof of concept short of the film I shot one
00:26:59
scene from it which was actually the climactic Squad Invasion um in the movie I did completely differently and I shot
00:27:06
a five minute scene we had this great actor Jonathan Groff in it who was attached at the time and once that short
00:27:12
went around and his show mind Hunter dropped a lot of people were you know interested in it and this company
00:27:19
traveling picture show and she two companies traveling pictures show and by Kevin Madison Carissa befell and Gigi
00:27:25
films ran by Geo Walsh these three producers at various points in the process came together and banned it and
00:27:32
they really backed me and supported me and really loved the script and were you know helped me develop it into something
00:27:39
much better than it initially was and you know we came together and we made this thing in the at the height of the
00:27:46
pandemic so it was quite a journey but you know at the end of the day it was really Jason's Story and it began by
00:27:52
just seeing the image of his face on this top 10 list you know to really trying to see him as a
00:27:58
full fleshed out character who I could talk a lot about and you were kind enough to send us a screener so we've
00:28:05
been able to view it before this our sit down here today and of course the movie
00:28:10
is about Jason Derek Brown his crimes but it's also about his family and then his fugitive status so tell everybody
00:28:18
about your you know you did a lot of research on this guy and tell us about Jason Brown
00:28:26
and what you learned about him in your research well Jason you know there's as I said earlier there's a lot written
00:28:32
about him and part of the you know challenge of making a true crime film I would consider my genre it's true crime
00:28:37
but I do True Crime fiction meaning that this is based on a true story there was
00:28:41
a lot of research but also in the process of making a movie one you know a director and screenwriter and actors too
00:28:47
everybody has to take creative Liberties to make it you know work as a film um so you know what's in there there's
00:28:54
the line between fiction and Truth is quite blurry in a movie like this but you know there was an extensive research
00:29:01
process while I was writing the screenplay what I learned about Jason Derek Brown was you know and a lot of
00:29:06
this is in the film or vaguely covered in the film um you know is that he was a con man
00:29:12
um you know first and foremost that was his profession you know Jason was not a guy who liked to work a nine to five you
00:29:18
know he was somebody who you know would come into a neighborhood with lots of toys Cadillacs BMWs you know and he
00:29:25
presented himself really really is like a rich frat guy you know um in a Suburban neighborhood and we show that
00:29:30
in the film as there's a relationship with his his land lady love interest played by Idina Menzel and uh her son
00:29:38
um you know so he's somebody who had that Larger than Life personality would buy you a drink at the bar you know I'd
00:29:44
take you out you know it just was a lot of fun to be around that kind of charismatic guy you know of his crimes
00:29:51
were pretty Petty for the most part bank fraud things of that nature you know but
00:29:56
he was always basically traveling around place to place never staying one place for too long so that he could you know
00:30:02
stay off the trail of creditors and people who are on to him as his crimes escalated his his pet his Petty cons you
00:30:10
know he started to basically lose the ability to do it he became desperate in his own mind and decided to rob an
00:30:15
armored truck and that became you know what was the central crime that put him on the FBI's top 10 list so you know his
00:30:22
upbringing which there is quite a bit written about and one of the you know the craziest
00:30:27
Mysteries of the movie is also about how his father um who was a con man himself
00:30:34
um you know the the background of Jason's interesting because he actually came from a very it looked like on the
00:30:39
surface of strict Mormon upbringing they were a Mormon family the Browns but um Jason's father was a con man himself
00:30:46
and had criminal ties and he his father disappeared off the grid in 1994 10 years before Jason did
00:30:54
so there's a bit of an odd mystery around that in terms of the research process there was a lot written about
00:31:02
these characters you know which was my main source of information was from there were a lot of documentaries made
00:31:08
about them there were a lot of articles there was even a book at one point so there's a lot there are a couple books
00:31:13
so there was a lot of information out there which you know I read and used and I like I said I did interview people
00:31:18
there's a couple of characters in the film who are what we call composite characters meaning they're based on one
00:31:23
or two folks some of whom were interviewed to give me as much information about Jason as possible but
00:31:28
then I ultimately take all that information of which there is a lot and there's some amazing
00:31:33
true things that happened that unfortunately can't make the movie I I find doing research extremely important
00:31:38
one key part of my research process I will can talk in depth about was my um I have I was very lucky to work with a
00:31:46
detective named Adam Richardson who actually runs a podcast called the writer detectives Bureau writers
00:31:51
detectives Bureau he consults a lot of screenwriters and directors in Hollywood and he actually I'm sure you guys are
00:32:00
aware of the Jesse James Hollywood case yes he actually was a detective who worked that case and I believe he
00:32:06
arrested Jesse James Hollywood if not had a key role in in getting him back here so he was he worked the case of
00:32:11
Jesse James Hollywood and he worked very closely with me and gave me a lot of incredible and valuable insight into the
00:32:18
police procedural process um because you know we were not able to consult with the FBI on the film because
00:32:23
the FBI it is an open case still um even though Jason was taking off the top 10 list it's the case is still up and Jason
00:32:29
technically still is reported missing so you know it the FBI can't cooperate with
00:32:36
filmmakers or authors on a case in an open investigation but you know we were able to use the FBI in the film and all
00:32:43
that but yeah this detective Adam Richardson was phenomenal he really helped me you know make sure our process was
00:32:51
interesting he read a couple drafts on the screenplay and after I consulted with him I definitely made some things
00:32:57
better and more accurate um but while I was even on such shooting you know when we were staging the crime
00:33:03
scene and all those elements I was showing at him you know I was FaceTiming him from the set I couldn't have him
00:33:09
there because it was coveted or you've met people we could have on so it was limited but he was FaceTiming for all
00:33:15
the things like the SWAT invasion you know to the car you know it's every police element in the script the
00:33:20
Stakeout and the storage units all those you know action set pieces this gentleman Adam Richardson was very
00:33:27
generous of this time and really helped me uh you know know as much about police
00:33:30
procedure as I could so that we were portraying it accurately and authentically as possible it's
00:33:35
interesting though too because I look at somebody like Jason Derek Brown and I I
00:33:39
cannot help but Wonder it was it the divorce that spawned this kind of wild behavior that led into a
00:33:49
lot of criminal activity Petty leading up to this execution style murder or was it his
00:33:57
personality that led to his divorce or you know the the chicken or the egg we don't know what happened first or what
00:34:04
led to one thing led to another but yeah he has a very bizarre upbringing to me almost you know raised by
00:34:12
by a criminal like father but also goes off on this missionary adventure and he's talked very highly of
00:34:23
by a lot of people that were very close to him and then he is accused of this execution-style murder which I mean this
00:34:31
is one of the most cold-blooded homicides that I can think of right like right Jason Derek Brown knew he was
00:34:40
killing someone that day when he woke up and when he went to the AMC theater that
00:34:46
day the thing the thing that is so horrific about this to me is he didn't know the individual's name it
00:34:54
didn't matter the individual's name it didn't matter who that person was he was going to rob that armored car that day
00:35:02
and he was going to flee and whoever happened to be holding the bag was going to be catching bullets from
00:35:10
Jason Derrick Brown and in your movie one thing that I want to give you big Kudos on here Matthew is I've read
00:35:18
pretty detailed descriptions of that crime right the way that it is in your movie I don't know that anybody could
00:35:27
have done any better of a job playing that out for the viewers I mean it I think you got it as accurate as you as
00:35:35
one possibly could well thank you for saying that you know and like I said you know just like what you guys do in
00:35:40
making True Crime podcasts you know research and authenticity is important you know and you want to capture it as
00:35:46
authentically as possible you know um yeah and that that you know there was a lot to research because it was a very it
00:35:55
was actually a much more sophisticated crime than it looked like you know because exactly it was very calculated
00:36:02
um is the word I would use to describe the whole thing you know he scoped out the right Alleyway he scoped out you
00:36:07
know he knew what street he could go and you know look um you know I as a filmmaker I find it's
00:36:14
very I cannot make a movie with passing judgment on any character I'm portraying
00:36:18
you know whether it's the antagonist the protagonist in this case you know your antagonist is your protagonist in this
00:36:24
movie um you know and on the record what Jason did is a horrendous horrific act as you you know as you pointed out you
00:36:33
know for me the power of of film and Cinema is that you can look at characters like Jason Derek Brown and
00:36:40
put them under a light so you know you could shine a light on a dark soul and ultimately try to you know without being
00:36:48
sentimental move the audience to understand who this person was I'm not saying like and I'm
00:36:54
not saying feel sympathy for but help them see him for who he was and what he meant to be because you're right
00:37:01
this man did a really horrifying monstrous Act he was also loved by many people and so that's what the movie ultimately
00:37:10
is grappling with is like you know are we capable of having you know of moving an audience to a place of compassion
00:37:18
understanding for someone who is someone who's rotten to the core and did something so heinous and so that's what
00:37:24
I'm you know as a filmmaker and I'm not saying you can and I'm not saying you can I'm just asking the question with
00:37:29
the movie so you know that's what the that's the ultimate central question of like why you know when people ask me in
00:37:34
interviews go why do you want to make this film what made you want to tell the story and that was it for me you know is
00:37:39
can you take someone like Jason and and moving on and you look we grew up in the
00:37:43
era at least my generation did of you know the TV shows Breaking Bad and The Sopranos you know and you watched Tony
00:37:51
Soprano and he's he's a monster he's a sociopath but you kind of can't help but love him a little and so or same with
00:37:57
you know Walter White and Breaking Bad so I I think you know film and TV is becoming more and more sophisticated in
00:38:03
this way especially with all the shows that are out there and and the books and and the True Crime boom that we live in
00:38:09
right now you know thankfully um you know in this true cramp boom it's it's asking the questions of why why did
00:38:15
someone do this and I think you know there's a lot to unpack with this character
00:38:21
um I don't know if that answered your question I think somebody like a Jason Brown lands on this top 10 list from the
00:38:27
FBI for a multitude of reasons but I I personally believe that it's probably because the trail for the FBI on Brown
00:38:36
went completely cold because he's not placed on that list until three years after the crime part of it I think is
00:38:43
the crime itself when you really try to dissect the elements of that crime in the crime that he committed one robbing
00:38:51
an armored car is not common that's not a common crime at all bank robbery is far more common than
00:38:59
robbing an armored car now you rob an arm a car and what you see traditionally typically in those types of crimes they
00:39:07
are much more violent than a bank heist bank heist the majority of them it's some guy passing a note to the teller
00:39:17
that's the way that the majority of them work most of these armored car robberies
00:39:23
involve a high level of violence and in this case murder and Jason Brown ambushed this this gentleman this guy
00:39:32
was a guy just like the three of us who woke up this morning went off to their work went off to their job we want to do
00:39:39
a good job we want to knock it out of the park here today and but at the end of the day our number one goal is to go
00:39:45
home to our homes and to our families and this individual was not able to do so because of the the cold calculated
00:39:54
mind of somebody like Jason Brown I mean we're talking about Robert Keith palomares who was only 24 years old did
00:40:03
not even get a chance to pull his firearm when he's attacked by Brown because Brown ambushes him Brown manages
00:40:12
to get off six shots he's at close enough range we're not talking about a highly skilled Marksman here we're
00:40:18
talking about a guy that ambushed and snuck up on this guy and and the closer he got the faster he was pulling that
00:40:24
trigger he hits palomares six five out of six shots hit above the neck on our victim and that's because Brown knows
00:40:35
that that he is going to be wearing bulletproof vest and he's going to go for parts on the the would-be victim
00:40:44
that cannot be covered cannot be protected this unfortunately this individual didn't stand a chance he he
00:40:49
didn't have a chance there was no fight because he was ambushed by Brown and then Brown this is how cold he is ice
00:40:57
cold he has to walk up to the body and pull and tug on the money bag to get it out of to pry
00:41:06
it from the fingers of our victim here to the point that he drops the bag he drops the gun and then he picks both of
00:41:11
them up before before he flees but I and I think I think when you really kind of
00:41:16
dissect this crime and there's a lot of thought put into it there has to be it's
00:41:21
so calculated you examine the mind and the personality of the type of criminal that would carry out this type of crime
00:41:30
and you see just how dangerous this person is to the general public as a whole because he does not think of
00:41:40
people the way that you and I think of people he does not think of life or this Earth the way that the rest of us do he
00:41:48
sees this as a grid as a giant chessboard and there's a lot of Pawns out there and as far as he's concerned
00:41:56
there's very few Kings Knights and queens and he's one of the kings in his own mind and the rest of us are just
00:42:03
fodder we're we're we're pawns to be dismissed to be done away with so that he can keep going
00:42:10
and that and that always makes him dangerous and then on top of that while he's on the run that makes him extremely
00:42:17
dangerous as well because we've seen what he he will resort to in this situation and now that he's on the Run
00:42:25
who knows what he's capable yeah definitely makes Jason Derek Brown a very dangerous individual and people
00:42:32
that think they might know where he's at should be very careful and contact law enforcement immediately the one thing
00:42:41
that the film doesn't get into dive into too much but I did want to get your opinion on
00:42:47
because you you were you were busy writing and exploring this man and his crimes and
00:42:54
his in his personal life for such a long period of time you know one thing that a
00:43:00
couple things that he did that were very interesting I thought while he was on the Run
00:43:05
at first the police and the FBI even though they knew who who had committed this crime they didn't come out and
00:43:12
publicly announce that because they thought that the The Manhunt would change there would be a giant shift in
00:43:19
The Manhunt and in Jason's actions and behaviors based off of the fact that he is under the assumption that nobody
00:43:28
knows that he did this he may know that people are looking for him or he knows he's on the run but for a period of time
00:43:35
he doesn't know that they know that he's the one that committed this crime at some point they have to publicly
00:43:41
announce that and I think it was about a month or so after um the crime was committed and then a
00:43:47
few years later he his name is added to this 10 most wanted list but well actually just to um just a little
00:43:56
correction there so what what actually happened was in no so the murder was committed November 29th and they figured
00:44:02
it out quite fast uh because of the fingerprint left on the bike they knew it was Jason or they knew Jason was at
00:44:08
least very much involved right on December 6th I believe Jason was staying at his sister's house and the Phoenix
00:44:16
police did have a press conference where they released Jason's image from taken from the gun store which became his top
00:44:24
10 fugitive image and that was put on TV and somebody nobody knows who called or let Jason know that they were
00:44:34
looking for him and that was how he was able to get out before the police and FBI stormed his sister's
00:44:42
house so he was aware that he was one and that's part of how he was able to get away and then he actually drove his car
00:44:49
down to allegedly down to San Diego um they thought he was going to go across the border and then he apparently got
00:44:58
because they he swiped his credit card at a gas station near the San Diego Mexico border and then allegedly though
00:45:06
did not cross they had apbs out for him and disappeared Into The Ether and they found his car in Portland Oregon now
00:45:13
nobody knows if he actually went to Portland OR I am right he could not right yeah that's another one of the
00:45:19
many many Unsolved Mysteries you could have paid somebody to send the car up to Portland but um you know but that's so
00:45:26
that's just you know something to keep in mind was they did they did release um to the president that was considered
00:45:31
I think by many people to be a huge mistake to release his image to the Press when they did but you know they
00:45:37
had their Reasons I'm sure that's that but yeah obviously we can only track so much of his movements uh
00:45:44
if we could track them all we wouldn't be having this conversation right right yeah interesting to me I goes down to
00:45:50
San Diego gives the impression that he might be headed for Mexico and then finding
00:45:57
and then some trace of him in Portland Oregon gives the impression of maybe he's going
00:46:02
the other route to Canada right you know it's like you know he's a con man you know that's to Jason isn't the court to
00:46:08
me always was a con artist how did con artists get you they prey on one's confidence right so you know I think he
00:46:16
you know was and look he was also coached in the art of Disappearing you know part of you know the storyline with
00:46:22
his father is that he would you know they the father who used to save the kids apparently growing up if I'm gone
00:46:29
for more than you know two hours or 48 Hours get rid of everything so you know this was someone who knew
00:46:36
how to you know probably work under the black mark criminal Market get fake IDs whatever you needed to
00:46:43
get on out and and disappear you know so it was pretty he was pretty sophisticated in that way as a criminal
00:46:50
and then he's remarkably unsophisticated in other ways as a criminal so I think that's what again makes him
00:46:56
so interesting I don't want to back you into the corner here Matthew but uh where do you think back and I'll get out
00:47:02
where where do you think he where do you think he is you know we had in the production office of the movie we had a
00:47:08
running list on the window of all the places he might be um you know for a while I I have thought
00:47:17
he was out of the country that was always my guess during the writing of the film I think it was a very good
00:47:23
chance he's not alive anymore I think that's highly possible I don't know if that's true but I think that could be
00:47:29
the case if he is and he's still running my guesses somewhere either in like Australia or southeast Asia would be my
00:47:37
would be my best not you know I guess somewhat educated guess but it's a big mystery but I don't think he
00:47:44
could be in the country I mean he was allegedly spotted in Salt Lake City in 2008 where we filmed the movie and that
00:47:51
was an area where he had tremendous ties to with Salt Lake City so I mean there were people in our crew who knew him uh
00:47:57
who who were very close to people who knew him there was you know he but he had you know when we were scouting pawn
00:48:03
shops and gun stores for the movie there were people who would ask about me like
00:48:06
oh yeah I knew I knew Jason Derek Brown um so they were you know he he had a lot of ties uh to
00:48:15
many different areas you also have Jason's fluid in French I think he also speaks spoke Spanish so
00:48:21
you know that's a lot of the world that he could get through well and so you say
00:48:27
if he is in your opinion if he's still alive probably outside of the country somewhere if he's not still alive what's
00:48:35
your speculation there are we do we think because his attitude his personality to me does not
00:48:42
in any shape or form suggests suicide right me neither what I what I think could be a possibility here if he's not
00:48:52
still around would be look you can only con so many people until you're calling the wrong person in
00:49:00
retribution takes place right um right and that that's kind of where where my my thoughts go to but I mean
00:49:11
let's he might not be on the top 10 list anymore but there's still a 200 000 reward out for right
00:49:18
is for his capture and that's a lot more money than what he made off in his armored car Heist right well that's the
00:49:27
other thing you know people say a lot is you know sixty thousand dollars isn't that much money so how did he
00:49:32
get out and go about how did he disappear like that's not a ton of money you know it's not like in Breaking Bad
00:49:39
when Walter White has all that money to go disappear or you know Bob odenker right or better you
00:49:44
know sell Goodman has all that money disappear this is a different scenario so yeah you know there there's endless
00:49:51
speculation on where he can be and you know to be honest uh you know I got I like I don't feel backed into a corner
00:49:56
by that question I think it's a totally legit question um that I've been asked before you know
00:50:00
but I never really it's never been something that's been that much on my mind you know as a filmmaker I
00:50:06
you know felt like what for me the movie ends when he's gone you know and that's
00:50:10
it and that's kind of where the story ends you know I would be of course if someone updated me and told me where he
00:50:15
was or what actually happened I would definitely be interested to hear but you know the film wasn't so much about that
00:50:21
to me because look even though and now maybe we'll call this a spoiler section so for your listeners if you haven't
00:50:27
seen the movie maybe watch it before you listen to this very small part of the interview you know maybe like for me the
00:50:34
movie is about a loss of humanity in a human as well this this man really eroded his own Humanity to get this
00:50:41
money and he by the end of the film yes he does get away with the crime in theory what kind
00:50:48
of life is that you know he's he he can never talk to anyone he knows or loves again he has to disappear he has to you
00:50:55
know he can't go out much right he has to kind of stay you know so it's like at the end of the day this man
00:51:02
like has disappeared and is is as if he is dead you know the act of him sending a box of all of his things to his sister
00:51:11
you know there's no way saying goodbye forever Jason Derek Brown as far as you know him no longer exists right he's
00:51:19
like erased his own identity pretty much so you know well it is definitely not you know it is
00:51:26
a tragic ending and I think it's a tragic film and the film is tragedy at the core in terms of what the storyline
00:51:33
plays out so yes he does get away but this is there's no happy ending all right for anybody involved and I think
00:51:41
that he um he disappears [Music] I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage joining us every week
00:52:09
make sure you subscribe to the podcast one of the perks of having a true crime podcast is we got to watch the screener
00:52:17
of American murderer and that's this week's recommendation yes you can find that recommendation and many more on our
00:52:24
recommended page on our website truecrime garage.com go see American murderer it's in Select theaters now or
00:52:33
if you want to stay home and watch it on the comfort of your own couch it is available on demand streaming on demand
00:52:41
as well that's American murderer thank you to Matthew genteel for joining us this week in the garage and check us out
00:52:47
again next week same bat Time same bat Channel until then be good be kind [Music]
00:53:03
thank you thank you