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[Music] [Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:45
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and germs here he is the rock and roll Outlaw that's right
00:01:51
I'm talking about your captain yeah don't be a fart sniffer it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for
00:01:58
listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are very lucky to still have some Black Tuesday Grand Reserve
00:02:10
2020 from the brewery this is a massively complex Imperial Stout which is aged for 2 years in Bourbon barrels
00:02:19
and then an additional year in Ry whiskey barrels garage grade four and a five bottle caps and let's give some
00:02:27
praise and cheers to our friends that helped us out this week first up a double barrel cheers and thanks to Mary
00:02:34
and Luke listening in beer Illinois a big shout out to Laura in Union Grove Alabama and here we have a cheers to
00:02:42
Tonda in Guthrie Oklahoma and a big we like your JY to Mark in Austin Texas here's another double barrel cheers to
00:02:52
Jacob and Jose and Loganville Georgia and last but certainly not least we have Carolyn W in Lincoln Nebraska Nebraska
00:03:00
everyone we just mentioned they went to True Crim garage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fund and for that
00:03:06
we thank you yeah BW r n Beer Run guys be patient we're behind on the beer run so we will get to you when we get to you
00:03:16
and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:28
crime directly to the killer who may be in this [Music] room only a coward would do such a
00:03:43
thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
00:03:49
murdered two little girls only a coward would do such a thing don't give up we will not
00:04:04
[Music] stop Doug Carter and he has taken the stand we'll take a listen in to the deli Community how grateful I
00:04:19
am you um you inspire people that you don't even understand and you don't even understand why
00:04:28
uh information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours of
00:04:38
extraordinary investigative efforts by Deli Caroll County the FBI the Indiana State Police and countless
00:04:44
other agencies this community surrounded us some 26 months ago and you did everything you could to
00:04:56
support us but most importantly you surrounded to the family of these two little
00:05:03
girls gosh I'll never forget it after you hear what we're going to release today I'm going to ask for your
00:05:10
continued support your continued understanding your empathy and compassion um as as we move forward uh
00:05:20
to find out who did this and we will we're seeking The public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that
00:05:27
was parked at the old CPS DCS welfare building in the city of Deli that was abandoned on the east side of County
00:05:34
Road 300 North next to the Hooser Heartland Highway between the hours of noon to 5:
00:05:41
on February 14th 2017 if you were parked there or know who was parked there please contact the
00:05:47
officers at the command post at the deli city building we are releasing additional
00:05:56
portions of the audio recording from that day please keep in mind the person talking is one
00:06:05
person and is the person on the bridge with the girls this is not two different people
00:06:14
speaking please listen to it very very carefully we are also releasing video recovered from Libby's
00:06:24
phone this video has never before been previously released the video shows a suspect walking on the
00:06:33
bridge when you see the video watch the watch the person's mannerisms as they walk watch the
00:06:44
mannerisms as he walks do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might
00:06:53
know remember he is walking on the former railroad bridge because of the deteriorated
00:07:00
condition of the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the
00:07:06
ties during the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become
00:07:11
secondary as of today the result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch
00:07:23
which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two
00:07:29
little girls we also believe this person is from Deli currently or has previously lived
00:07:37
here visits Deli on a regular basis or works here we believe this person is currently
00:07:45
between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than his true age D directly to the
00:07:56
killer who may be in this room we believe you are hiding in plain sight for more than two years you never
00:08:06
thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy but we have we likely have interviewed
00:08:16
you or someone close to you we know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we
00:08:28
know and one day you will a question to you what will those closest to you think
00:08:39
of they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls two children only a coward would
00:08:47
do such a thing we are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least they
00:08:58
know because of how different you are since the murders we try so hard to understand how a person could do
00:09:06
something like this to two CH to two children I recently watched a movie called The
00:09:17
Shack and there's also a book that talks so well about evil about death and about
00:09:25
eternity to the murderer I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left and I can assure
00:09:38
you that how you left them in that Woods is not it's not what they're experiencing
00:09:50
today to the family I hope that you all will give them some time because we're going to be
00:10:01
asking that there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks and I hope you understand
00:10:09
why the family found out about this about this information this morning I just want the family to know
00:10:22
that when I take my last breath on this Earth I'll be thinking of them there's going to be a tremendous
00:10:29
amount of questions I know that I know that uh never in my career have I stood in front of something like
00:10:36
this please be be patient with us please uh we're just beginning we we are just now beginning and I can tell you on
00:10:46
behalf of the sheriff and the police chief so many other partners um that have stood with us over this period of
00:10:54
time that we will not stop directly to the killer who maybe in this [Music] room only a coward would do such a
00:11:15
thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
00:11:21
murdered two little girls only a coward would do such a thing don't give [Music]
00:11:32
up we will not [Music] stop all right me and the colonel are back in the garage talking with skip
00:11:45
Jansen about his Person of Interest DP and we will not stop we've been working this case since the beginning spending
00:11:54
hours upon hours outside of the garage talking with people and that's how we really got hooked up with Skip and his
00:12:03
Person of Interest there's so much to it that makes sense and so much that is still confusing but one of the things
00:12:11
that's confusing is why would they go with his sketch above a sketch that they had beforehand I think I think it was a
00:12:19
lot of it had to do what they saw on on the video they thought maybe they saw they saw an older guy and I think it's
00:12:25
it's important remember law enforcement was really emphasizing you know about the younger face that you know pay
00:12:30
attention to his what his body his moves is all of his all of that not not his face I think the the video is not a good
00:12:38
representation of that and but law enforcement early on thought they were looking at somebody who looked more like
00:12:44
what end up being the first sketch than the second sketch yeah I think when you seen the picture of BG or you see the
00:12:49
video of BG your mind goes towards older gentlemen you see the second sketch you
00:12:54
go wow that is not anything like I pictured this person be way younger I think people still believe that you know
00:13:01
I think they see it in their mind that they that they see an older person they and they can't get that they can't CH
00:13:07
they can't change that they it's just kind of burned in their in their brain yeah I still think people are baffled by
00:13:13
this case cuz in 2019 press conference they released the image of a way younger looking individual saying he's between
00:13:21
18 and 40 right well and that at that point that was when DP recanted his story and said that yeah maybe he didn't
00:13:30
see that guy maybe he saw flannel sh guy cuz he realized that flannel Shir guy was in close proximity to where he was
00:13:37
during the time on the trails or said he was so but he you know but again the scarf to me is the big takeaway if he
00:13:45
saw somebody with a scarf that he claimed was BG then now you're saying that you may have seen FSG was FSG
00:13:51
wearing a scarf as well he would have had to have been I've never heard any evidence that FSU was wearing a scarf
00:13:58
that day so I mean again just something else that doesn't really line up with what he's saying yeah he constantly is
00:14:05
changing his story uh so confusing but also the picture they released in 2019 the predominant feature to me is the
00:14:14
hair and there's rumors that he changed his appearance after that but but what is DP doing between 2017 and
00:14:23
2019 uh before that press conference oh I think that he thinks he's he's gotten away with he's Scott mean you've got a
00:14:29
you've got a uh sketch out there that looks nothing like him FBI said one of the things he this part might do is
00:14:36
change his appearance um well he wouldn't had any reason to change his appearance if the sketch didn't look
00:14:40
anything like him right he actually did change his appearance after the 2019 press conference and the new sketch came
00:14:47
out shaved his head grew a beard so that would fall in line more with what they were what they were talking about well I
00:14:53
also feel like at the 2019 press conference when they come out with the information about the vehicle and asking
00:14:59
for the driver it's almost like they know who they're talking about yeah I think I think there was a lot there were
00:15:05
probably questions about that vehicle and who was in that vehicle and you know when it was there and who drove it there
00:15:11
and all that originally and I think they probably let off with that because they
00:15:14
wanted him to know that they they figured out how that all you know how it all went down and that they had been
00:15:20
lied to about that I think that I think that's one thing I think that's one thing that people are misunderstanding
00:15:25
about one of the things about the case is that law enforcement I think was led astray for the first couple of years of
00:15:31
this case because of all this because of all the misdirection and false information they've admitted that there
00:15:38
were aliis that didn't didn't add up there been newspaper articles about it and so when you see that is that where
00:15:45
you go hey here's this guy online he's saying I'm I'm an eyewitness here's oh here's the people I
00:15:53
was with oh nope nope that's not who I was with I was with some other people right so now we got a guy online saying
00:16:00
I'm an eyewitness I was there but he's changing his story but then his aliis quote unquote his aliis would be
00:16:09
changing their story as well and then you see that happening online and then you see this language being used by
00:16:16
police is that what sparks you to go I think this guy should be a person of interest absolutely yeah I mean you know
00:16:24
giving law enforcement false information is a reason people do it I mean it's uh
00:16:30
if you come forward you're the expectation is you're telling the truth there's you know there's a there's a
00:16:34
reason you're trying to send him down One path and so yeah that's to answer your question yeah that's exactly why I
00:16:39
looked into him as a person ADV interest interest so you think 2019 they're directly talking to your Person of
00:16:46
Interest DP can you explain that a little bit more I think I think a lot of things I think just about everything
00:16:53
they said in there you know the fact that somebody this guy had been has been following the case and that's that's one
00:17:00
another thing is that I think one of the reasons law enforcement has been so skittish about about releasing stuff is
00:17:07
not because they don't have anything or not because you know they're doing it for another reason law enforcement isn't
00:17:13
releasing information because they know this guy is following it and using that information to his benefit okay that and
00:17:21
that that's pretty obvious so that's one of the things and I think that um you know the once release of the was out
00:17:29
there you know everything changed this guy stopped this guy was not talking anymore he uh you know didn't seem you
00:17:35
know so eager to get it want to get his story out there but I think everything they said in it was very pointed and at
00:17:42
particularly at uh at one individual and I can't get over the fact that after this press conference where they won
00:17:50
they're turning a new direction or taking a new Direction but they're pointing the whole conference to the
00:17:55
killer this is calling out the Killer and then to have this person of interest change their appearance after the press
00:18:04
conference I have a real hard time getting over that yeah he yeah exactly and his his hair was uh you know I Know
00:18:12
sketch is not a photo but his hair was would have been similar before he shaved it to what you what you saw in the
00:18:17
sketch when when do you do you know when he started pulling away from online chats and not not long after not long
00:18:25
after I don't know the exact date but not long after the uh press confence you know you mentioned you asked earlier
00:18:30
about one of some of the things that were said I think that you know when they said directly to the killer you
00:18:35
know who might be in this room you know we believe you're hiding in plain sight and the part about you never thought we
00:18:40
would shift gears to a different uh investigative strategy right that that goes to what I said about think he
00:18:47
thought he was he got away with it you never thought you know they knew that he knew there was another sketch but you
00:18:53
know he never thought that they were going to change to that and I think that was just I think that was them making
00:18:58
making him aware that uh you know kind of The Jig Is up you know they also said that you know they've likely interviewed
00:19:05
him we know he went and talk to law enforcement yeah uh he was making some statements about talking with law
00:19:10
enforcement online he stated online that he went there and talked to law enforcement a couple of times and he
00:19:17
stated he was there trying to help him that was his uh that was the word he used he was trying to help he was a good
00:19:23
Samaritan just trying to help out you know so again changes the story he was there um again changing the story
00:19:32
multiple times but changing his appearance we always told to look out for that and then we have a
00:19:40
eyewitness that is now lawyering up and pulling away from social media he certainly hasn't been making any social
00:19:48
media comments or anything like that like he was early in the case well I heard his name brought up with a couple
00:19:54
people that I've been investigating the case with and back in the day he had had
00:19:58
his you could see everything on his social media you could see his post you can see who he was friends with he seems
00:20:04
to have very you know very much so gone dark on the internet you know you can't find much about this individual you
00:20:12
can't see anything you can't see anything online about him at all it's almost like he went dark well and plus
00:20:18
he's a he's an IT person he actually when he was a sophomore junior in high school he designed the County's website
00:20:26
yeah it seems like he has a talent in this field which you have told me personally that you think that's the
00:20:32
reason why there's been so much misinformation from the beginning maybe he had access to things that other
00:20:38
people didn't but is this possibly the older individual that one of them was talking to online and and is he the
00:20:49
reason for the scrubbing of the cell phone can you explain that a little bit well she liby basically scrubbed her
00:20:56
phone re rebooted it restarted reset it said she have some glitches maybe that's
00:21:02
true maybe it's not maybe uh maybe she had been talking with somebody online certainly someone with computer skills
00:21:09
would know the reason to you know why you would why you would uh reset your phone like that to get rid of any
00:21:16
information or or uh any trail of people you've been talking with well one of the
00:21:21
things that I brought up to in one of our discussions is we know that SnapChat photos were being posted posted we know
00:21:29
that one was posted at roughly I think [Music] 27 right I believe is the time but y
00:21:37
there's no mention about did they take a couple pictures beforehand and post those did they take a couple pictures
00:21:43
after those and post those we're not privy to that information I'm assuming if people were saying well they were
00:21:50
walking on the bridge and talking and taking pictures and they were at the the park for a while already I'm assuming
00:21:57
that there was a couple Snapchats already uploaded but that doesn't matter if you are following them then you'd be
00:22:06
able to do a search and you would have seen their avatars at the park correct that's right
00:22:13
yeah and basically if you're in Deli even some of the furthest po points you're talking about a 15 to 20 minute
00:22:23
drive to get there right so did this person of interest interest was he there uh like law enforcement says if that car
00:22:32
isn't connected to the killer at 12 or 1:00 maybe because maybe it was set up that way or maybe it's a situation where
00:22:42
the person was tracking them through snapchat yeah it's that's yeah it's very possible he would uh uh and then you
00:22:51
know like you said he would be just a minute's Drive short minute drive away from being able to to uh uh access the
00:22:59
bridge from anywhere you know in that area so well we know that DP knew their family they they knew the victim DP
00:23:08
knows one yeah yeah one of the things he says on on social media is that he knew
00:23:13
the girls and he had ridden the bus with them before I think he lived maybe half
00:23:17
a mile but uh admitted to knowing the family yeah I don't know how well you know I don't know how well they were
00:23:23
different ages think DP at the time was 22 or 23 obviously he was you know seven
00:23:29
or eight years older than Abby or Libby would have been so but we believe that DP rode the bus with Libby lived within
00:23:38
a couple miles from them also dp's sister-in-law was one of their softball coaches yeah dp's brother Quenton wife
00:23:50
was was liby soft one of liby softball coaches why haven't we arrested if if everything that you guys are saying is
00:23:59
in fact true it doesn't seem like that difficult of a case and where I'm going with that
00:24:06
is a couple things okay so we can we can sit here and analyze and question and speculate as to why
00:24:13
Libby reset her phone but what we do what I what I want to make sure that we're really touching on is there are
00:24:21
facts there are a lot of facts that are known in this case it just takes a lot of different locations and a lot of
00:24:27
different places to peel them from and piece them together now in regards to her phone the the statement from Libby's
00:24:36
family was that the phone was actually a factory reset that was conducted by Tara
00:24:43
her aunt right and the they the phone required the reset because the phone was not working properly because it was an
00:24:52
iPhone 6 and everybody remembers old phones they fill up very quickly with too much stuff
00:24:58
and they have no memory left and then they don't work at all and part of the reason why they had trouble locating the
00:25:04
girls was that there was apps you know find my phone and and things like that on on the phone but because of that
00:25:13
factory reset those apps had not been uploaded once again to the phone right so we we know that the factory reset
00:25:23
happened we know that terara was the one according to Libby's family was the one
00:25:27
that conducted the factory reset okay that's where that's where I question a little
00:25:35
bit it how much was if we're if we're Mak if we're going to make the leap and say that Libby was
00:25:41
hiding something you're missing the fact that she asked for the factory reset no I'm
00:25:48
not missing that fact I obviously she she would have had to have a conversation with somebody M for it to
00:25:54
be conducted she didn't do the factory reset because she didn't know how to right yeah I think that I think
00:26:02
again you know she would have lost everything she would lost all you know she she liked to take pictures and
00:26:08
photograph I think she would have lost all of that I think the the first question would have been you know if
00:26:14
you're having a glitch how do I say how do I save all my photos and all that kind of stuff I don't want to get rid of
00:26:19
but what we've been told is that she just asked for a reset I mean I'm not saying I'm not saying they're lying I'm
00:26:24
not saying that they're lying I'm saying that uh I think there's a reason for the
00:26:28
reset maybe the reason than just a glitch some a girl that age to take all her photos she would lose all that I
00:26:35
mean that seems uh more problematic to me than and that factory reset happened 10 days before right that's right
00:26:42
murders the other thing that I do want to make sure that we bring up as well is that the family has gone on the record
00:26:47
saying that of course Libby was on Facebook Snapchat Twitter and Instagram and her Becky and
00:26:55
Mike had her her passwords as well as they were friends on all four yeah I you know I
00:27:05
don't know that that that's that the phone is a huge piece of evidence in this case I think it it may explain the
00:27:13
you know the fact that she that somebody that somebody knew she was going to be there that day or or or and she had been
00:27:19
uh speaking with someone but I don't know that that you know I don't because I don't think it there's anything uh
00:27:25
absolute about it I don't think you can draw anything abs flute coming out you know cuz he you know he this guy's
00:27:30
admitted he knew her M you know so it's not like he was uh he was that secret about that yeah and I believe at one
00:27:37
point he was friends with Libby on Facebook yeah so you know I I think again I think
00:27:45
Nick's point is very valid it's like well if you just believe everything she said she reset this phone because there
00:27:52
was a glitch she still she would have still had to do all that stuff and maybe she said look this phone is constantly
00:27:58
not working I don't care if it saves any of the stuff I just want my phone to work yeah so yeah and I want I want to
00:28:04
be clear here I'm not challenging either one of you guys I'm just what I'm pointing out or challenging the theory
00:28:09
itself I mean there could be any Mill there could be a million reasons why she wanted the there could be a million
00:28:16
reasons why she wanted the phone reset all I'm trying to do as we lay out this theory is there again there are known
00:28:24
facts or statements from the family and from other indiv ual and I want to make sure that we presenting that from all
00:28:30
sides so we're throwing speculation here it's it's it's more than fair to do so because that's all we're left with at
00:28:38
this point but along the way I am going to remind of of of what few facts that we do know to be or statements from the
00:28:46
family I just want to make sure that I'm presenting those as we go because it'd be irresponsible to not do so uh and
00:28:53
then the the statement in regard to Libby's phone from law enforcement is that uh Facebook Snapchat Twitter
00:29:01
Instagram and all online contacts were uh things all of that was accessed analyzed and all online contacts tracked
00:29:11
down and interviewed the other thing when we talk about technology that's bizarre here in this case that we don't
00:29:17
have an arrest is that we know that ISP Indiana State Police did subpoena the phone records for any phone
00:29:26
that pinged with than a five mile radius of the mon in high bridge uh during that
00:29:31
time frame that day so they've got a a long list of of phones that they know to have been in that area at that time yeah
00:29:42
had be another reason for someone to come come forward knowing their phone had ping there I mean if my phone if I
00:29:47
knew my phone was anywhere near there and it pinged there I'd come forward too I'd just be that that goes again to
00:29:52
toward why would you come forward right but the reason why I'm going down this path is because it's sounding more and
00:30:00
more to me like this is not a random I'm looking for any type of victim here at the trail or near the
00:30:11
bridge it sounds it sounding more and more to me like this that one or both of these girls were targeted and yeah in my
00:30:19
opinion go down was definitely targeted and for it to go down that day in this manner the
00:30:27
perpetrator needs to know that they're going to be there that day and the phone is one way that he could have known as
00:30:35
the captain has pointed out now the the difficult thing too here also is the um statement from law enforcement in
00:30:45
regards to additional audio that was uh found on the phone from that video and to be clear
00:30:55
there's only one video the the the picture we have is from the video the audio we have is from that video there
00:31:02
was one video as far as what we've been told by law enforcement and the additional audio is briefly described as
00:31:11
typical girl talk but also discussing the man and where they could be going again it gets a little tricky to
00:31:21
me if they if one of them or both of them may have known the suspect right I mean don't don't they
00:31:32
say his name or or give there I mean there's there's a whole mountain of reasons why we don't have somebody in
00:31:37
handcuffs waiting on a trial right now yeah well in my opinion to be honest with you is the first two years of the
00:31:46
uh again Carter says in the press conference we're just beginning we're just now beginning okay that tells me
00:31:53
let's throw away the first two years somebody duped law enforcement into believing something that was they went
00:31:58
down the wrong path yeah they went down the wrong path and gave this guy two years to cover every track to get rid of
00:32:07
every piece of evidence to get his story right to follow the case which they have
00:32:12
uh talked about numerous times that they they know this guy is keeping up with the case following
00:32:19
it and uh so that first two years plus another thing that that hasn't been discussed is if this guy has
00:32:28
brought in as a witness okay they're they possibly have some Miranda issues this guy wasn't read
00:32:35
his rights before he uh start before he just you know when he said he went in to
00:32:40
help law enforcement that you know is that is that are they going to have do they does
00:32:45
the district attorney think realize that and does law enforcement or the police realize that ISP and and Carol County
00:32:52
realized that hey we may have some Miranda problems because this guy was interviewed as a witness and anything he
00:32:57
said whether we think it's a lie or not can't be used because he wasn't read his
00:33:02
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Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to get all your home
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projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie [Music] that well and one of the things
00:35:27
that you talked about is well why would they go with dp's version of the sketch as opposed to somebody
00:35:35
else and it could be the small town Factor DP comes from um prominent family and you think that played into
00:35:45
some of their decisions or also the fact that he did work for the county when he
00:35:50
was in high school yeah he like I said he designed the uh uh County website and yeah I
00:35:57
think that I think again I think the the uh small town aspect in this case can't
00:36:02
be overplayed I mean I think it's just is I think it's huge and how small town people feel and if law enforcement saw a
00:36:11
kid coming from a prominent family who everybody knows who says he's a witness there's no reason for them not to
00:36:15
believe it and I think in 2018 when the when the Georgia Bureau of Investigation
00:36:21
got involved because they wanted to they were doing a peer review and wanted a fresh set of eyes I think that's
00:36:26
probably the time that they realized something doesn't add up with these stories something doesn't add up with
00:36:31
your witness story something doesn't add up about the vehicle something doesn't add up about the
00:36:36
timeline and they were able to take the bias and the Prejudice out of it that the local guys may have had that hey it
00:36:44
couldn't be this guy because like it or not that happens I mean law law enforcement makes mistakes just like
00:36:49
everybody else you know they're human and when the gbi came in they were able to take the bias out of it and I think
00:36:58
that's when they realized that hey maybe the stories that we've been told we've been LED down the
00:37:05
wrong path we've been uh we've been lied to and that's and that's why then you know not shortly thereafter uh at the
00:37:12
beginning of 2019 in April they they do the press conference and release the new
00:37:16
sketch a SK a SK again a sketch they had two three or four days after the murders
00:37:21
you know and again they I think they released the first one because the older sketch because they thought that was
00:37:27
more along the lines of what they were seeing on the video and they had Witnesses who said they saw him so that
00:37:36
that seems like the likely that seems like the obvious way to go right is to release that one that's the guy when the
00:37:42
gbi came in and they looked over everything they realized hey we you know things aren't the way they seem and that
00:37:49
sketch that we had originally is more in line with who we think this guy is and I I wonder if that
00:37:58
if at that point did did they go over multiple interviews or did they re because because Carter
00:38:08
had said this multiple times when we you know run out of leads we go back to the
00:38:13
beginning and right at some point exctly that's a good point Y when they went back to the beginning and and maybe I
00:38:19
mean we have online DP saying that I've talked to law enforcement multiple times
00:38:24
well is it right was it the second time that talked to you that your story didn't make sense with your first story
00:38:30
or that Cheyenne's story didn't match your story or Cheryl's story didn't match her story or Shelby hicks's story
00:38:37
didn't match her story right yeah I think I think that the time the timeline is the most important thing because
00:38:44
again I go back to what I said originally about the per not wanting to be under that bridge between 2:30 and
00:38:49
3:30 you know DP admitted to a source that he was the reason that or he was part of the arguing
00:38:59
couple okay and the reason reason for that was he explained it as that they explained away why the girl he was with
00:39:06
didn't see BG they said they ran into BG or BG walked past them the girl he was with didn't see her and the reason was
00:39:14
was because they were arguing okay now if you're part of the arguing couple and Derek runs into FSG around 320 and he's
00:39:23
coming from the Highbridge and tells Derek that he had just heard an arguing couple under the bridge but just before
00:39:32
that puts arguing couple guy under that bridge around 3:00 right but that's what
00:39:37
he said online but what is he saying to law enforcement we don't know right right he
00:39:44
says I'm part of arguing couple well who's the girl you're with well it was my fiance and they go talk to her and
00:39:51
she goes I wasn't there yeah well it was this girl uh because then that would have made
00:39:57
basically the first time they ever talked to him uh suspicious right but but I think that's
00:40:04
really why he jumps out to me is when he's constantly changing his stories online and you can actually see what he
00:40:11
posted and go well that doesn't make any sense with the last thing he posted and
00:40:16
this guy's also claiming to be there also claiming to be an eyewitness but like you said okay I'm part of arguing
00:40:23
couple that's under the bridge about 3:00 anything under the bridge to me as part of the crime scene because we have
00:40:30
we have the audio clip of them saying of of the murderer saying guys down the hill correct and we know that uh the
00:40:41
most likely way they got to where they ended up uh where they were found would have been down the
00:40:49
hill by Under the Bridge uh you know down across that private drive over the creek and then to the final spot um so
00:40:58
yeah he would have known definitely that you know they would have definitely known he was there at that time or he
00:41:03
would definitely have been there at that time if he's if he's admitting to being
00:41:07
uh arguing couple maybe maybe that was the uh statement that was problematic in terms of you know hey you know I used it
00:41:19
to explain away why the girl didn't see it but it's backfired because of what FSG and that and also May tie into to
00:41:28
why he says why he recanted about the original and said maybe he thought he saw FSG he's trying you know because he
00:41:34
knows that puts him there in that spot and again that's the last place the per wants to be is near that bridge under
00:41:42
that bridge between 2:30 and 3:30 so one thing I'm a little unclear on of here skip is the
00:41:48
uh regardless of what girl he what woman he claims he was there with has this woman been identified and saying that
00:41:56
they were there with DP that day she hasn't come out publicly no now what's been said like you know like the captain
00:42:04
said what's been talked about to law enforcement I don't know but she nobody's publicly come out and said they
00:42:08
were with DP that day okay so if he is if he was in fact there by himself M that seems a possibility we don't have
00:42:20
anybody stating I was the person he claimed to have been there with in either story correct cuz both stories
00:42:27
have him with somebody else correct but when Cheyenne sees him is he with somebody she says he's with yeah she's
00:42:35
his one corroborating but again there's nobody there to that says they saw her we don't know that she was there and her
00:42:43
story's changed um multiple times you know her her story carries a little weight because of the posting of that
00:42:51
picture but if you look at yeah yeah you'd have to you'd have to uh decide for yourself whether you think the
00:42:57
legitimacy of that photo I mean I'm not saying it's not it's a real photo I'm not we don't we don't know 100%
00:43:03
everything about it uh she said she went there to take photos that day and she she showed just a couple of pictures I
00:43:10
mean what you know seems like you'd take you would take a lot if you went there to take photos well there was stuff that
00:43:16
was wrong with the timestamps too right yeah her the time stamp said an hour difference than uh what she claimed it
00:43:23
was see I thought she had posted something she did she just that was the problem it didn't it did that time
00:43:28
didn't line up with what the Tim stamp said well because at some point she's posting from across the bridge close to
00:43:35
the murder scene yes from the southide yeah I think you know one of the one of the things that I think people have
00:43:41
questions about is is well why didn't they you know why didn't they Grill him and all that kind of stuff again early
00:43:47
on law enforcement was looking for rsos they had there was a serial killer Theory possibly FBI is putting out for
00:43:56
Flyers all over the country they were going down a totally different Road they were they were looking for an older guy
00:44:04
possibly a like I said a serial killer sexual offender they weren't looking for you know some someone in their 20s
00:44:12
locally and so the folks of the investigation again that's why Carter said we're just now beginning in the
00:44:19
2019 press conference is because the information that they gathered over that period of time changed
00:44:27
and that's why the emphasis was on he's local he's younger and we have a sketch of him what
00:44:33
is Cheyenne's motivation for pretending to be there that day I don't know 100% I don't I don't uh I
00:44:41
wouldn't even really venture to guess what somebody reason somebody give somebody an alibi I mean people do it
00:44:47
all the time they do it for love fear money wait a second hang on because the her motivation for pretending to be
00:44:55
there that day they would be giving DP and Alibi if in fact that's not been made clear to
00:45:00
anybody listening yet that that so your your thought is that Cheyenne was with DP that day uh no no okay I don't know I
00:45:11
don't again until until somebody verifies that they saw her there I don't know that she was there at all but what
00:45:17
would be her motivation for pretending to be there uh like I said it could be numerous things you know people people
00:45:25
provide Alibi for other people all the time yeah she she could have been doing it as a as uh it may have been
00:45:31
innocently at first it may have been you know she he thought she he needed an well he knew he needed an alibi but if
00:45:37
he went to law enforcement and say he was there somebody's got to play somebody's got to say yeah I saw him
00:45:41
there so he can't go and say can't put himself in the middle of the crime scene so he puts himself in a different spot
00:45:46
but that's got to be corroborated he knows that so but but what's weird to me about DP being there and and like again
00:45:55
Cheyenne is just the fact that there's nobody that is saying that we saw him there I
00:46:02
mean he's admitting to be being there so we can assume he's there right but nobody is saying that they saw him where
00:46:11
their story hasn't changed or hasn't been contradicted in some way that's right that's exactly right I'm getting a
00:46:18
little lost here because but but I agree with Nick where it's like okay but so her stories don't line up but why would
00:46:25
she even say at all that she was there why would she say that she saw them at all I I mean again he could it could
00:46:34
have been he could have uh course her for whatever reason and you know in believe yeah look he he could he would
00:46:40
tell any could tell anybody hey I was there but I need somebody to say I was there you know I didn't it wasn't me
00:46:46
look at the video that's not me obviously um and they would buy that you know and so uh she may she may give him
00:46:55
an alibi you know just doing it innocently I don't know that that would still be the case um I would think that'
00:47:01
kind of be hard to believe that that would still be the case but uh but uh that's that could be a possible
00:47:08
reason that any of anybody that was giving him an alibi could have been given Alibi originally didn't realize
00:47:16
what they were giving an alibi for right that's fair I'm just I'm just pointing out that we're saying on with one hand
00:47:23
that if DP says he was there then we should believe that to be true but if Cheyenne says she was there we shouldn't
00:47:30
believe it to be true or we should question it well what I think we should question more is not say so much whether
00:47:36
or not she was there but what we do know is based off what she's told people online and what the these posts and
00:47:44
these other things the the timeline is very contradicted so I would say I'd go to as far as say DP has said he's there
00:47:55
he said he's eyewitness Cheyenne has come forward and told talked to a bunch of sources online and said that she was
00:48:01
an eyewitness not to bridge guy but that she saw DP there right right I I question more her
00:48:11
timeline and so so if she says well I saw DP there okay you saw DP there and it doesn't even matter if you
00:48:21
saw him with a girl because if she saw him at 2:00 with a girl and it's at a distance we don't
00:48:29
know if that's not Libby or Abby right we don't know where she's saying that she saw him at and so that's
00:48:37
all I'm saying is that we know that her story has shifted and morphed so I just don't I I don't even know if she's
00:48:46
essentially lying for DP I think she might just be you know oh why yeah I saw him at three but really it was four or
00:48:56
maybe it was two we don't we don't know well ask yourself why she was talking publicly anyway I mean she didn't see BG
00:49:03
never claimed to CBG so her her uh basically her existence in the case uh is explaining who she saw that day so
00:49:15
she's coming forward and saying who she saw she did she didn't see the bridge guy so she offers nothing in terms of a
00:49:21
witness to seeing the guy who you know but she is saying oh and she's trying to you know she's putting people in certain
00:49:29
places oh I saw this guy and he was with this girl and I saw a girl that I didn't
00:49:33
know was going to be there um so for me that that's that's best she's doing is just is uh witnessing
00:49:43
Witnesses yeah but she also could be just coming online because there's such a fascination with this case yeah and
00:49:51
that she I think I think she was talk she started talking though early before the case ever got to a point where it
00:49:57
was had gotten crazy like this but but have I been bamboozled because the information I have says that Cheyenne
00:50:04
posted a picture that afternoon she did yeah so the one is that one she was there I mean that's that's what I'm
00:50:14
trying to get to here we're we're circling around this a lot about whether she was there or not but that doesn't
00:50:20
that posting of the picture add to credibility of her physically being there that
00:50:27
afternoon maybe maybe not I mean the picture didn't look like it was even from the same day as a matter of
00:50:34
fact what I was asking yeah it looked like it had fog in it it also um the Tim stamp that originally she showed on the
00:50:43
picture didn't line up when she with when she said she was there she possibly could have been there could have been
00:50:48
early or whatever um but even even if it wasn't let's say she's off by an hour let's say she's off by 7 hour so I I'm
00:50:56
not really I don't really care about that what I'm what I'm trying to point out is that we know she posted a picture
00:51:02
that afternoon claiming to be there what I'm getting at is for for someone to go
00:51:08
oh well I just want to be a part of this it gets a little difficult to you can't
00:51:13
go back in time and post that picture to add to your credibility later that you were in fact there because that
00:51:20
afternoon nobody knows what had happened it's not an event yet it's not it's nothing yet yeah um we don't know until
00:51:26
that evening that they're in fact missing we don't know until but the killer day noon the next day that they
00:51:32
were K they were killed but the killer right but we need to say that here rather than dance around it you know we
00:51:40
we need to be presenting a direct story with timeline and narrative uh for this this series yeah she she offered up the
00:51:47
photo as as as proof that she was there because this isn't the first time anybody's questioned her story and not
00:51:54
making sense yeah but I think what Nick is trying to point out is yeah she offered up a photo of proof but didn't
00:52:01
she also post that photo the day of the murders on her social media uh she posted she said she posted it um yeah I
00:52:10
think maybe I think that was the one where the time frame was just a little or the time stamp was off again she's
00:52:16
she she did come at fortn but she her story is is always made sense where she say she is at a certain time has never
00:52:22
made sense um again I go back to that why you know you're coming forward but why are you tell why are you saying
00:52:29
things that don't add up and and and changing your story and all that I I don't I don't understand that yeah the
00:52:36
story is not making sense so many people have multiple contradicting stories when
00:52:43
you have three stories only one of them can be true why would you protect somebody that murdered a 13 and
00:52:50
14-year-old girl absolutely makes no sense it makes you as big of a piece of [ __ ] as the
00:53:02
[Music] murderer what are your thoughts on Skip's theory of his Person of Interest
00:53:15
we want to hear from you at true Crim garage.com and click on the blog and then join us back here for part three
00:53:22
here in the garage until then be good be kind and don't [Music] live you can live out your Master Chef
00:54:07
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professionals to get all your home projects done well inside to outside repairs to renovations
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get started on the Angie app or visit angie.com today you can do this when you Angie
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that