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[Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that's so hip he wants to distribute our show through
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vinyl he is the captain yeah can you dig it man it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening and
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thanks for telling a friend [Music] this week we're drinking you're a good man Charlie Brown Ale by Santa Cruz
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Mountain Brewing garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five you're a good man Charlie Brown Ale is
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brewed with roasted malts and English ale yeast for a nice crisp and classic finish and today's beer was brought to
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us by these friends of the garage right here first up we have Laura in Pittsfield New Hampshire and a big shout
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out to Sarah in Akron Ohio next the big cheers mates to Johannes from Sweden she
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would like to be on the parts Unknown police force well first you're gonna have to Frisk me I would wear two pairs
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of gloves a big wheel like your jib to Sarah from Baltimore Maryland and it cheers to Claire in Albuquerque New
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garage.com click on the Donate button bwe double r u n beer run and that's enough of the business all right boys
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and girls gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music]
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[Music] foreign worked at the campus and I had an ace sticker on my car and obvious access day
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or night to the campus I was picking up some very lovely young women you know what we were talking about as
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we're driving around almost as often as not this guy that's going around doing this
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stuff and the second they started talking at they didn't realize it but they were getting a free ride
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I couldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole I swear you know but they'd be telling me what all about this guy and
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they're comparing notes and speculating on what he looks like how he carries himself why he's doing this stuff
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telling me about it it's getting easier to do I was getting better at it I was getting less detectable I started
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flaunting that invisibility severing a human head two of them at night in front of my mother's residence
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with her at home my neighbors at home upstairs their picture window open the curtains open 11 o'clock at night the
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lights are on all they have to do is walk by look out and I've had it why did you keep the heads when you cut
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them off and why did you keep them something out of my childhood I could put it on an incident I mean my
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father chopping the heads off of our two pet chickens and my mother insisting that I eat them for dinner
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uh you know we could say it was something that simple I don't think it was now my dad heads out back with that
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hatchet I got on my bike and I wrote I tried to stop it I remember that I got on the
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bike Road around the block I was crying I haven't talked about that for a lot of
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years I'm sure that may have implemented something that may have gotten something
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rolling but along fantasy lines but it took a lot of years of development along those lines to really get off but how
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are you able to in one minute have someone's head in your hands and very shortly they're acting through a fantasy
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however that would relate to that severed head and then five minutes later I'd put that
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away and there'd be a knock on the door and I'd put it away and answer the door and the landlady
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would be there and we'd discuss it discuss what reality her reality not mine some people go crazy at that
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point I felt it it was one hell of a tweak I mean to just flip out and not know where I was
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to be walking up the stairs with a camera bag or belonged to a young woman that had her severed head in it
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walking up to my apartment passed a happy young couple coming down the stairs who nodded and smiled at me
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as they went by good evening and they're going out on a date where I'd love to be going and I'm aware of
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both of these realities and the distance between those two was so dramatic so amazing so violent
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that really I can feel the wheels squeaking inside that was really pulling on it and I imagine at that point some
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people break but I didn't literally go insane I didn't get lost [Music] Edmund Kemper was committed to the
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Atascadero State Hospital for the criminally insane he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia
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this was a unique situation though we have young Ed Kemper living at the state hospital for the criminally insane
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keeping in mind kemper's high IQ now add in kemper's personality he is of the type that flourishes in
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this environment think about it he's the type that if you put him in a situation
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he's been rejected his entire life all he wants to do is feel like he fits in or not have to be in a situation of
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being rejected again this is not up to him to be there he's required to be there considered by most
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to be a model inmate so he's granted Privileges and one of these privileges is that he is
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delivering tests and test results to from office to office so during the course of this time when
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he's running these tests and running the results of these tests from one office to another he's reading them he's
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perusing the files he's looking through the papers he's memorizing things diagnosis treatments desired results
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all of this stuff so later he would be able to manipulate this system he's in there he's talking to
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psychiatrists he's talking to people studying him he's talking to people that are trying to treat him
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and he's he's able to give them answers and responses that may not be truthful that may be learned behaviors learned
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responses he's in fact learning what they want to hear from him Juan do you believe
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that at this age that Ed wanted to be fixed himself um I don't know I don't know that he
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considered there to be something wrong wrong with him in the sense that we would consider there to be something
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wrong with him he considers there's that there's something wrong with him because he's
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rejected by everybody that's been in his life so he knows hey there must be something wrong with me because I've
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been rejected by all these people but what we see is somebody that has killed two people that's very different than
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what he sees right he kind of sees himself more as a victim where we see somebody that couldn't cope couldn't
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handle whatever his environment was and his reaction to such was killing two innocent people regardless
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we we will never know if he wanted to be fixed cured whatever you want to label it we will never know if he even wanted
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to receive treatment we will never know if the treatment actually in fact worked when you're
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given all the answers to a test how does anyone determine if you actually learned anything right you know
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he's essentially just memorizing what they want to hear from him what they want his response to be and at this time
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you know you and I kind of chatted yesterday a bit about well he could have been a mass murderer at age 15 and then
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we probably would have locked them up forever and that's you're more likely right than I am in that conversation
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that we had of course well not of course you we can't just brush it aside so quickly no I meant because it was coming
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from me well you're not just right because you are who you are um the thing is in this country at that
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time late in the 60s in the early 70s especially in California and look Californians don't get all upset with
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the colonel I didn't do this I wasn't the I can't go back and change history but what the history of it is is our
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country not just in California foreign but especially in California this country was was hell-bent on the
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thought of Rehabilitation at that time right you know we talked on this show several times about why was there so
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many serial killers in the 70s and 80s well it has there's so many factors that go into that but some of that is this
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simple thought of this we have at the time California going you know what oh you killed two people we
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can fix you let's just talk let's lock you up for a little bit we're gonna and not only that
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we're going to surround You by other people that we've deemed to be not only violent but criminally insane yeah and
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your IQ depending on who you talk to could be near genius level as high as 146 we're going to put you in an
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environment that you can learn from our doctors which we want you to learn from our doctors right yes it's not going to
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be a basement there's not going to be rats we want you to learn from the treatment right guess what you don't
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want a six foot nine 300 pound guy with an IQ of 146 to learn from the criminals
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that you've surrounded him with the adult criminals the criminally insane people that you've surrounded him with
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he's now learning from them as well and the problem that we had back in the the late 60s was we were doing this with
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killers and I say we because other states were doing it as well we're still doing it on some level we were doing it
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with killers and we were doing it with uh child molesters and people that would would reoffend and we're like well we
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can fix it and you know one big problem that this country had in a lot of countries had back then was we didn't
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never have a good understanding of these people that were raping children at that time we were almost identifying
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it as something to being equal as homosexuality which of course now we're all educated and smart enough to know
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that they have nothing to do with one another right never have and never will and so back then we thought we could
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even cure something like that and just throw them back out on the streets and we would see oh they also thought they
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could cure homosexuality they would have these they still to this day think they
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can and they have these uh Church groups that you go out you know all men church
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group that go out in the woods and and they can pray away the gay well and of course you know we we've we've
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discussed it on our show several times you know even States like Texas Florida Ohio everybody was releasing these very
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dangerous individuals and then you have somebody as smart as Edmund Kemper and look I'm not blaming the system
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especially in this specific instance because we have a guy that was smart enough to figure out a way to manipulate
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the system right okay so we can't blame the system for being tricked yeah but you know we need to take a look at some
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of these systems that we've had in place for years and and correct some of that stuff well and that that's what I think
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we've learned throughout these last few decades is really how quote-unquote curable is
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would somebody be that's already committed double homicide right maybe the method for releasing this individual
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is not to just have him check in once a week with somebody and go talk to him and the person goes yeah he's still fine
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yeah because he's fine until he's not right he's fine until he's fine until he's decapitating somebody he was fine
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for 15 years until he shot his grandmother in the back three times right Ed Kemper is released to his
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mother's care which is another horrible idea oh this is great the person that he
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hates the most during the talking yeah you think they would have figured that out like yeah we can't release him
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to the mother you know what I will say in the defense of those that were helping him with his treatment at the
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time they did tell the state you can't release him to his mother like you could the dad probably didn't want him you
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could release this guy yeah but see that's the problem when a lot of a lot of States
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and I know that it varies from state to state but from my understanding California I believe Ohio is the same
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way California even as an adult if you're like paroled if they release you on parole the first thing before
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considering you parole they say well where are you going to go to live well you've been in prison
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you don't you don't you haven't had a job you don't have any money you don't have a residence so you have to go live
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with somebody else somebody has to agree to take you in Ed Kemper has nobody but
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mama and Mama probably didn't want to take him in it either but right she does for whatever reason and so he's released
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to her care so now he's on parole and he's like we said six foot nine he weighs 280 pounds heavyweight champion
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of the world well and he's released into a world that he just simply doesn't understand yeah you know he spent more
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than a quarter of his life locked up and with people older than him well he also
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says things like that like I I couldn't even imagine what it would be like to go
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talk to a female that's kind of odd yeah I mean like maybe at first like when you're 10 it's
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a little strange after that it's like yeah it might be frightening to people but it's like if
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you find yourself in conversation like in the line at a you know Burger King to get a whopper or something you find
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yourself talking to a lady that's not that strange to 98 of the the men out there yeah and I mean but we have so too
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we have the thought of you know keep in mind the people his age in 1969 California they were free-spirited
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California they almost spoke a different language than Kemper and as you said he had no experience
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with with women but I mean as a young adult he had no experience being out in the real world as a young adult this is
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my issue with when they're always talking about almost genius level IQs but not smart enough to figure out
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so much [ __ ] in life but know that he had the tools to be equipped to do so and regardless I mean
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I was thinking about this the other day you know let's say he's out and he's talking to
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um a woman his age right or you know older younger whatever it doesn't matter where'd you go to high school oh I
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didn't go to high school because I shot my grandparents and I've been locked up in a house hospital for the criminally
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insane right for the past five or six years but I was a good patient yeah and I helped the staff well not only is he
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out but like we said he's in his mother's care or living with his mother and once again he's experiencing her
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verbal abuse right now he did get his GED once he was out and he wanted to be a police officer but instead he landed
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at a job with the California division of Highways he saved his money and eventually purchased a yellow 1969 Ford
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Galaxy vehicle this is a two-door car so for two years Ed is working he's trying
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to adjust to civilian life trying to fit in he's you know just out there living doing his thing he's with his mother in
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Santa in the Santa Cruz area his mother now separated from her third husband she's working as a secretary at the
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newly opened University of California Santa Cruz Ed with his car made a practice of
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picking up the beautiful young college female students that were you know in the area looking
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for a ride looking to hitchhike which was very common back then well what and wasn't this because since his mom worked
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at the school he had some kind of school identification on his vehicle yeah he had some kind of sticker I don't know if
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it was for parking purposes or just to be able to get on and you know onto the campus area and drive around well but
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that was probably so good for him because if especially if you go to a small College when you see that sticker
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on somebody's car you see that thing hanging from their mirror it almost makes you like reassured that they're
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okay this person's okay yeah you identify with them and you probably would think uh maybe they're a student
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you know so looking to get into a car looking to hitchhike somewhere you would be willing to get in his vehicle seeing
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the sticker is the general thought now he drove a lot of young women around for a long time and I actually believe
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captain that he thought that maybe this might lead to a date or some type of relationship because we have an
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individual that doesn't seem to have the means or the ability of meeting people very well but hey if I do something nice
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if I offer you a ride now we're we're locked and loaded here right we're sitting together we're on a journey
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together I'm going to take you somewhere I'm doing you a favor we can strike up a
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conversation yeah if you can be Charlie cool about it but when you're pulling up
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rolling down your window and your banana hammock and you're going oh Excuse Me Miss would you like a ride
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I can give you a ride in my car well fairly quickly I would guess this letting women into his car picking
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women up for hitchhiking purposes probably very quickly became more about his violent sexual fantasies and just
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like he learned in the hospital he is now going to start to try some different tactics to see what works and what
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doesn't work okay so you referenced the sticker on his car probably helped him pick up some young women he also said
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that he had a look like he had a specific style of sunglasses that he would wear just when he wanted to pick
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up hitchhikers he also had a move too that he would do that when asked if he could give them a ride he would try to
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act like he was annoyed like he had somewhere to go like you know looking at his watch and going oh I guess I guess I
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can help you out that way to let their guard down that he's not so eager just to get this individual into his vehicle
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right he says that he started taking things a bit further each time like he would start veering off of the natural
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route to where they wanted to go or start taking them to a secluded location where they didn't want to go right so
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kind of the the thought process here is well I'm going to turn right instead of left here and let's see how they react
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yeah yeah the worst case scenario they go uh no you're not supposed to turn right here and you could always play
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dumb oh I'm sorry I took the wrong path eventually he takes this to the point of
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he starts to keep a gun in the car with him when he's picking up women yes that way so when they go you should have
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turned left and not right he just pulls the gun out and go don't you tell me how
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to drive on May 7 1972 Kemper was driving when he picked up two 18 year old hitchhikers these women were from
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the Fresno State University they were students this is Mary Ann Pesci and Anita lucasa after driving for an hour
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he drove to a secluded wooden area near Alameda which he was familiar with from his work at the highway department
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there he intended to rape the women but while he was locked up he learned from serial rapist to not leave Witnesses
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so here's an issue for him he's decided that he wants to rape at least one of these women
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think about Ed Kemper he's six foot nine almost 300 pounds he's easily identifiable
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so he decides hey I learned from these guys while I was locked up not to leave any Witnesses if somebody's five foot
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ten white guy brown hair he's probably you know you could identify that individual to police and
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you not find him or home in on him so quickly you say hey this guy was a giant he wore glasses and he drove a yellow
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vehicle they're going to home in on him fairly quickly yeah so what he decided to do is he tied up the girl that he
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wanted to rape and he put Anita laquesa in the trunk of the vehicle he attempted to rape peshi
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however he was unable to do so and when he couldn't get it up he got angry with her and he took it out on her
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and he decides to stab Marianne Pesci right even though that we heard in the interview he claims
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that his stuff works well he stabs her to death and eventually he realizes crap I got this other person in the car
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I can't just let her go now she's in the trunk she doesn't know what's happened but I can't just let her go now so he
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goes back to the the trunk he lets her out and he opens it up and tells her that hey she sees blood on his hands and
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he tells her hey your friend got out of control got crazy with me I had to punch her I think I broke her
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nose you're going to want to come check on her you're going to want to come make
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sure that she's okay and as soon as she turns her back on him he stabs her both of these these women at least one
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of them he slit their throat we have this situation too where afterwards he kind of goes into an
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immediate panic he closes the trunk he's now got one of the victims inside of there
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and he believes that he he can't find his keys yeah he starts to panic thinking that he locked his keys in the
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trunk of the car and now he's screwed he's got at least one body in there at this point he might have had two because
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he did he did ultimately transport both of them with two of both of them being in the trunk right so he's panicking
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he's thinking crap I've locked my keys in there with these two victims he starts to panic he trips over his gun
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that he dropped on the ground and he says that when he fell this kind of brought him too like he kind of had a
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Moment of clarity there realizing that his keys were in fact in his back pocket he never kept his keys in his back
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pocket he says he finds him in the back pocket picks up the gun that he had that
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he used to control the women to begin with and now he's going to drive so he can
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dismember these bodies and dispose of them on the way to his destination he gets
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pulled over for a tail light he's got a busted taillight it's always a busted tail light now I wonder if that was
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busted before for or if it got busted during the the tussle that I don't know that's that's that's interesting but he
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did he's able to weasel his way out of you know the the officer doesn't search his vehicle obviously well of
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course not so he's able to make it back to his destination and I'm not going to go through all the details but much like
00:25:13
Ted Bundy and other individuals that we've discussed before on the show Ed Kemper was a necrophiliac okay yeah
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he couldn't have normal sexual relations or sexual intercourse with a living breathing woman
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he liked to have sex with their heads well and their bodies frankly and we don't need I said we weren't going to go
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into details thanks captain so he was a necrophilia sometimes it needs to be said and he would dismember
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these bodies so he could later dispose of them all right cheers mates cheers captain on
00:26:07
the evening of September 14 1972 Kemper picked up 15 year old Korean dance student
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aikuku ku's family did not own a vehicle and she got permission from her mom to go to a dance competition so she was to
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take the bus well after missing her bus she hitchhiked Kemper offers her a ride so he drives to a remote area pulling a
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gun on coup before he accidentally locked himself out of his car wow so you believe it it will happen well coup let
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him back inside the vehicle and then Kemper choked her unconscious raped her and killed her but this is after he
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pulled the gun on her correct he packed her body into the trunk of his car and went to a bar and had a few drinks then
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back at his apartment he did all of the terrible things that we've already discussed earlier before dismembering
00:27:06
and disposing of the remains in a similar manner manner as his previous two victims is this when he's going to
00:27:13
the bar uh that the cops like to go to I don't know what bar he went to that night but yes there was a bar that he
00:27:20
frequented called The Jury Room and this was a bar that was the regulars were pretty much law
00:27:27
enforcement right and he he made a lot of friends he would go in there he's I mean we we've already said this from the
00:27:34
interviews that they have of him online he's easy to talk to he's a talker and he would go in there
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and he would buy drinks for the officers they would buy drinks for him they would
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sit around drinking beers and talking about you know everything you know everything from the weather to these
00:27:52
missing co-eds well he would talk so much he he actually knew that he was kind of annoying because how much he
00:28:00
actually talked but I believe in one of the interviews he was stating that he knew just don't bring up any of these
00:28:08
murders or any of these cases because if you do then you might become a suspect right and you know for a while with
00:28:16
these three missing individuals you know he knows that he's killed them but for a
00:28:21
while they were simply missing persons cases right you know they all three of them had disappeared we have koo's
00:28:29
mother who she phones the police saying hey my daughter didn't show up to this dance competition she was supposed to
00:28:36
take the bus I've never seen her ever again she phones police and and reports her daughter is missing
00:28:44
so for a while they're just simply missing persons cases eventually they're going to start finding the body parts of
00:28:52
these different victims now in January of 73 Kemper picked up Cindy Shaw and we would have the same results you know
00:29:01
she's never seen again and in February the following month he picks up Rosalind Thorpe and Allison Liu so what we're
00:29:11
seeing here Captain is what we see often with these serial offenders we're seeing
00:29:15
an increase in the speed in the rate of the crimes you know it's like he can't control his urges or fantasies well and
00:29:26
there's less of a cooling off period so very quickly he's getting to the next victim so to speak
00:29:33
so we talked about Kemper War special glasses that he thought made him look more like a
00:29:39
college student made him look a little hipper you know he drove the vehicle that he had the campus sticker on the
00:29:46
vehicle yeah Kemper the original hipster and then he also had different things that he would do like I said he would
00:29:53
pretend to be in a hurry looking at his watch when asked if he could give somebody a ride
00:29:58
the other move that he did which is terrifying and it's really well thought out though on his part is once he would
00:30:07
get these hitchhikers into his vehicle think about his vehicle it's a two-door vehicle so if you're in the back you're
00:30:15
already at a huge disadvantage because the whole idea that he has is he's going to drive you to a secluded area and then
00:30:23
he's going to pull a gun on you well if you have the ability to flee that's your opportunity you got to get
00:30:29
out of Dodge as quick as possible if you're stuck in the back seat you're going to have a difficult time
00:30:35
getting out of that vehicle also take an account that he's six nine so his wingspan his arms reached the other door
00:30:43
the passenger door pretty easily well that was one of his moves so he would only have a victim in the
00:30:50
back seat if more than one hitchhiker got in at a time right you know because the natural thing is to ride shotgun so
00:30:57
what he would do is he would reach over his passenger and he would say oh I don't think your door is shut all the
00:31:04
way and then he would open the door you know using the the little latch open up the door close it shut and in the same
00:31:11
motion he would drop a tube of chapstick down into the door so what it creates is
00:31:18
it it prevents you from using that latch to open the door you couldn't he's not locking the door in front of you which
00:31:24
would be an obvious move making you uncomfortable right he's unbeknownst to you he's dropped this tube of chapstick
00:31:31
down there now if you go for the latch it doesn't connect and you can't open the door from the inside of the vehicle
00:31:37
right and and a lot of the doors now when you go to open them if they're locked they'll unlock automatically or
00:31:43
whatever they do but this is back in the day but wasn't it Bundy that just didn't
00:31:49
have a handle yeah he Bundy did all kinds of things remember he actually had um he altered the seats in his vehicle
00:31:57
in some form too oh yeah remember he had him like he took the screws out of him so if he needed to just push a chair
00:32:04
back or hide it he could right and in 73 that attack in uh February with on the two young women
00:32:13
he actually by this point he's in a bit of a frenzy because remember we talked about with his first victims as an adult
00:32:21
he drives out into the middle of nowhere there's a bit of interaction between these victim and killer leading up to
00:32:30
The Killing right with his last victims I think I personally think he's in a bit
00:32:35
of a frenzy because he doesn't even bother to get them very far away from where he picks him up and he shoots both
00:32:41
of them he talks about how after the killing this paranoia of that that he's going to be caught right away that
00:32:48
everybody's coming to get him I wonder if that started setting in right when he picked up the victim I think that he had
00:32:56
developed what he likes to do to the victims and he wanted to get to that as quick as
00:33:04
he could and what I mean by that as we said earlier is he can't he can't have normal
00:33:10
intercourse or sexual relations or or normal relationships with people the way that normal people can right so he wants
00:33:17
to get straight to having sex with their head or yeah he wants to get straight to
00:33:21
the necrophilia as soon as possible because you know he can create I hope nobody's
00:33:27
eating their lunch yeah but he can create and make up all these reasons why who he is you know and how he turned out
00:33:34
and what he why he does what he does well that's because one time when his when he was eight years old his dad I'm
00:33:42
just joking but in the end the reality is this is his this is his sexual fantasy right and
00:33:50
it's now how can I get to that as soon as possible and that's what's tough about some of the interviews for me is
00:33:56
can we learn something to possibly see this early early signs in a child and maybe stop this behavior from happening
00:34:04
or is some of this just complete [ __ ] to justify their fantasy their sexual um fantasies well I think it's a way to
00:34:16
rationalize it right you know either for themselves or for everybody else to understand that this is why they did
00:34:24
what they did but in this situation he shoots both of these young women he actually gets pulled over with them in
00:34:34
the vehicle I mean he's not moved them to the trunk of the vehicle he gets pulled over um and he he had wrapped
00:34:42
both of them up to the neck area in a blanket and they were both kind of just like you know their heads leaning
00:34:48
against the door and the other victim head leaning against that victim if that makes sense yeah but they're both like
00:34:56
one sleeping on the other gotcha yes when he gets pulled over he tells the officer that both of these women are
00:35:03
drunk and he's returning them home and actually he's returning them to his home but he doesn't tell the officer
00:35:10
that right and the officer believes him and he goes on about his way and we've seen this with several several different
00:35:18
serial killers that in these moments some of them are able to not panic Not freak out and just kind of offer up an
00:35:26
explanation as to what's going on and they get sent along their way we saw it with Bundy you know we saw it with uh
00:35:33
BTK but it wasn't necessarily an officer it was um I think it was another scout leader or somebody that's seen this one
00:35:40
Dahmer yeah Dom yes Dahmer did almost this exact same thing well for years he's had hatred towards his mother now
00:35:48
he's gonna turn that against her and not these co-eds yeah at some point Kemper finally realized that his Ultimate
00:35:56
Fantasy was killing his mother now it's difficult to say how long he planned such an act it's likely months or at the
00:36:04
very least probably every time that they got into an argument because you have heard in the interviews he will often
00:36:12
reference the him and his mom we got into a bad argument on this night and then I went out driving around right and
00:36:19
so we do know from these interviews though that he would was at least actively seriously planning to kill his
00:36:26
mother for about a week or so before he finally did this was two days before Easter Sunday
00:36:32
on Good Friday 1973 Kemper decided to kill his mother he battered her with a hammer stabbed
00:36:39
her with a knife and he cut off her head and of course he did all of the other things that we've already discussed that
00:36:45
he did with the other bodies and then we have Sally Hallett this was his mother's best friend
00:36:52
he once he cools off he calls her up and invites her over to dinner so she shows up expecting to have dinner
00:37:01
with Ed Kemper and his mother and as soon as she enters the place he gets behind her this giant and he basically
00:37:08
picks her up with with his arms and he's he's strangling her in midair and she dies pretty quickly
00:37:18
many people have suggested captain that given his homicidal obsession with his mother that we are supposed to
00:37:25
think that maybe killing his mother like exercised the demons that tormented Ed throughout his life
00:37:33
because this would kind of be the end of his Killing Spree well let's stay on this
00:37:40
murder for a second because didn't he also say that she went out with a friend and she was drinking and then she came
00:37:46
home and uh he like passed by her room or something and she made like some snarky
00:37:52
comment like she always does right like oh I suppose you want to stay up all night talking now yeah now is it true or
00:38:00
false because I know and look at your right I mean you don't wanna you're not one for the Gory details
00:38:09
but is this just a part of mine hunter or was this actually what happened because he
00:38:16
claims in mine hunter that he took her larynx yeah and and put it in the garbage disposal there are many
00:38:26
different versions of that same story so I believe there's got to be some truth to it
00:38:32
and if you want to take it to the most extreme he says something to the appoint to well
00:38:39
the way The Story Goes anyway I couldn't find his exact words on this right mind
00:38:44
you there's like hundreds and hundreds of hours of of interviews with Ed so can you please say it in his voice I I don't
00:38:51
I don't think I could do it you're not you're not gonna even try I don't think though that I think the listeners would
00:38:57
like to hear you try your best you know I think the listeners would like to hear
00:39:02
you try but see that's how Cameron that's how Cameron Britain talks I know that's not how Edmund kempered but
00:39:07
that's still hey that's still Ed Kemper impersonation now yeah he's he's he's got the character spot on in the sense
00:39:14
that Ed's very matter of a fact matter of fact right you know he just kind of says what he did he has the look in his
00:39:20
eyes the look in his eyes are very similar to Ed's yes they are they're they're 100 so let's take this story to
00:39:29
the most extreme that I've ever heard you know the most extreme version of this story is that after killing his
00:39:36
mother he couldn't silence her voice that she was still nagging and bitching at him even in death so he did he
00:39:44
decided to remove her larynx and her tongue and throw it down the garbage disposal and when he turned on the
00:39:52
garbage disposal pieces of that or the whole thing came back out at him to which later he told law enforcement is
00:40:00
it made sense to him because he wasn't able to silence her that even in death she was going to continue to nag him and
00:40:07
she was going to get the last word right but when we listened to Ed talk the way
00:40:13
that he would let us know what was going on inside of him is he throws out there
00:40:20
the suggestion that had I just killed mother before everybody else I wouldn't have
00:40:25
killed anybody else right again I have to wonder is this the absolute truth because
00:40:31
the reality is he killed his mother and then shortly afterwards he killed her best friend he didn't stop with his
00:40:36
mother right he had the opportunity to but you and I were just talking about uh willpower well we yeah and uh one's own
00:40:44
will you could argue there's evidence against your theory Ed he would call he ended up calling the police so he drove
00:40:51
to Colorado he left a note this takes you back though he calls from a phone booth right yeah he and he left a note
00:40:59
at his mother's home saying hey you know I sorry about the mess boys I had to leave I got things to do
00:41:06
he thought that again that paranoia sets in where he thought all of a sudden everybody's going to know what he did
00:41:12
and as he's driving to Colorado he kept expecting to hear this story on the news
00:41:19
you know breaking news we found two dead bodies at this home and no he never hears that So eventually he decides he's
00:41:26
going to stop he calls Santa Cruz Police from Colorado and he says look come and
00:41:32
get me before I do it all over again and the police they initially refused to believe him
00:41:39
you know this is the guy that they drank with at the bar right it took several follow-up calls
00:41:46
for them to believe that he had done what he said he had done and they they even asked him information that only The
00:41:53
Co-Ed Killer would know so Kemper finally convinced the police that he was the man that they were
00:42:00
looking for and he was quickly arrested without incident and charged with eight murders in the first degree now I do
00:42:06
want to point something out here that's that's not often discussed when Ed Kemper is discussed is there were there
00:42:14
were more difficulty in this case than uh they're then looking back many of us would know of and that was there was
00:42:21
another active serial killer in that exact area at that exact same time as Ed MC Kemper which created a big problem in
00:42:29
the investigation so we had Herbert Mullen he was kind of killing people at random you know where right we have
00:42:36
Kemper who has a very distinct victimology right the problem was that at the time investigators believed that
00:42:45
all of these murders were likely connected and therefore it made the it made establishing a real pattern
00:42:53
it made it very difficult right because there was no real pattern you have one guy killing at random well then you have
00:42:59
two things also going against you you have a guy confessing and if any more crimes happen while he's in jail then
00:43:05
you go wait well then this guy's falsely confessing but then he's also only confessing to some of the murders so
00:43:12
you're going well why is he only confessing to some of them and not all of them and here's one thing that I'm
00:43:17
shocked of this is a great idea for anybody out there that has time to do it I'm a little surprised that there wasn't
00:43:22
there's not a movie or a book based around this whole idea of two working in the same area at the same time what was
00:43:29
that movie like Kiss the Girls or something Forrest Gump where they're operating on different sides of the
00:43:34
country these two serial killers you have a unique situation where two are operating in the same area and they're
00:43:41
basically they're almost apprehended roughly about the same time so they're active for about the same periods of
00:43:47
time now we know that Kemper beheaded several of his victims he would eventually tell his attorney that he had
00:43:55
eaten the Flesh of at least one of them so at his trial he did testify and during his trial he said that the
00:44:04
slayings were his way of acting out homicidal cannibalistic and sexual fantasies that dated back to his
00:44:11
childhood stating that that was the only way they could be mine referring to his victims
00:44:17
Kemper said I had their spirits and I still have them Kemper was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment for
00:44:26
the eight murders because there was a stay on the death penalty in the U.S at the time of his conviction Santa Cruz
00:44:33
County Superior Court Judge Harry Brower said at the time Kemper you should not be released from prison during your
00:44:41
natural life Edmund Kemper remains housed among the general prison population at the
00:44:47
California medical facility in Vacaville California ultimately John Douglas believes that these types agree to talk
00:44:55
with the FBI for a number of reasons but with Kemper Douglas believes he cooperated because he was somewhat
00:45:02
bothered by his crimes and this was a way to make some sort of amends and talking about his crimes also allows
00:45:10
Kemper to better understand himself Douglas also says that he believes Kemper was made to be evil rather than
00:45:18
born to be evil but he also throws in there hey we have to keep in mind if this individual was raised in a happy
00:45:26
environment a non-abusive environment by different people right he says I can't guarantee that he
00:45:33
wouldn't grow up to end up killing people yeah I look I respect John but I also think
00:45:41
when you almost become friends with an individual like this I think that your viewpoints
00:45:47
are going to be skewed a little bit yeah I can agree with that I think that Kemper makes it difficult
00:45:53
to remain unbiased in this situation because he is easy to talk to you have Douglas in his
00:46:01
own words and Bob Ressler and his words as well stating that you know they found
00:46:06
him to be friendly easy to talk to Easy going and even had a good sense of humor
00:46:11
to the point where they talked with him for hours and will have to remind themselves hey this guy's a this guy's a
00:46:17
real monster he's a killer well they're also talking to other monsters that aren't being as Cooperative guys that
00:46:23
are probably just completely lying to him not giving them any correct information so therefore it's like
00:46:30
here once again Ed Kemper is the star student here's a little recommended reading
00:46:48
before we get out of here today this week we're recommending the Allure of premeditated murder why some people
00:46:55
plan to kill by Jack Levin and Julie Weist as violence remains such a prominent and troubling topic Nationwide
00:47:03
the Allure of premeditated murder successfully explores the reasons behind the worst violence as well as the most
00:47:10
promising Solutions and if you're interested in any of our recommended reading you can check that
00:47:16
out by going to our website truecrime garage.com and check out the recommended page for all of our old episodes check
00:47:23
us out on the Stitcher app it's free and check out off the record on Stitcher premium all right until next week be
00:47:31
good be kind and don't litter [Music] thank you [Music]