00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
00:00:31
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
00:00:38
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are gamechangers dive into 25
00:00:45
Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
00:00:52
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
00:01:07
[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and my co-host is a guy that's attending a time
00:01:49
travel event two weeks ago he is the captain let me just say I'm baffled by the technology it's good to be seen and
00:01:57
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for T of [Music] friend we are drinking Brew free or Dye
00:02:10
blood orange IPA garage grade five out of five bottle caps this is a fantastic beer one of my favorites as of recently
00:02:18
brewrey has got some good weight to it and about a half a glass will warm you up nicely in these cold times the blood
00:02:25
orange is up front and cuts through the bitterness of the IPA perfectly and this
00:02:30
perfect beer was brought to us by these perfect peeps first up we have Adam in Queensland Australia and a big shout out
00:02:37
to Dan and Perth in Western Australia next up we have Kylie in North coat Australia well cheers mates and big we
00:02:45
like your jib to Beth and Omaha Nebraska next up we have a shout from Gramps to Harry's awesome Mom in fluger and last
00:02:54
but not least we have Jose from the cold dark and foggy Netherlands so thanks everybody for going going to True Crim
00:03:01
garage.com and helping out with this week's beer fun and make sure you follow us on Instagram Snapchat Twitter
00:03:06
Facebook all that stuff at True Crime garage and that is enough of the business all right Captain remind me to
00:03:14
thank you later everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some
00:03:18
true crime [Music] [Music] all right let's get back to this fascinating case well Captain I
00:03:49
know that we've talked a little bit about the photos that would have been found later on the digital camera that
00:03:55
was found inside the backpack mhm and we've talked about this a little bit but we've not gone into great detail now I
00:04:01
do want to throw something out there because most of the reports that I could find in in you know I reference The
00:04:08
Daily Beast yesterday they have really the most comprehensive report on this case there are a lot of very what I'm
00:04:18
guessing are thorough and detailed accounts of of these reports online but they a lot of those
00:04:26
are Dutch you know so it makes it tough for us garage people to figure out and how to read those so we're not fluent in
00:04:34
the Dutch yeah so we went with the Daily Beast for um I did anyway for most of my
00:04:40
research the one thing that I call into a question regarding The Daily Beast that was a little confusing to me is
00:04:46
those reports as well as others that I found state that the digital timestamp on the
00:04:53
camera on the memory it was working okay okay but where I called that into question
00:05:00
is we have a situation where the early photos and this will make more sense if you're unclear about this case uh it'll
00:05:08
make more sense as we get into it but the early photos those when we say hey what time did they get to the summit
00:05:14
what time did they get to the top the the mirror uh the guess is that it's around
00:05:20
100 p.m. and that's based off of the position of the sun and there the location the known location of the women
00:05:28
mhm when we look at the later photos we get more we get more detailed information with these and what I mean
00:05:37
by that is timestamps right I don't understand why some of the same reports reference two
00:05:43
different things the position of the sun with the early photos and then later the
00:05:48
time stamps with another so I very confusing there and I I'm not I don't mean to confuse anyone but I want to
00:05:55
throw that out there because should we find ourselves in a situ ation where people were calling into question the
00:06:03
information I just want to be clear on how it was presented and what was found out there so I found statements stating
00:06:10
that the camera's memory it was preserved and that the digital timestamp worked so according to that
00:06:17
investigators could tell exactly what photo was taken and when right so this of course assuming that the time stamp
00:06:26
is correct we've done so many cases where we're talking about surveillance footage in it's off an hour right um the
00:06:34
the camera itself was not equipped with GPS capabilities as we said yesterday it
00:06:40
was retrieved intact and there were 100 plus photos on it that were still available to investigators now
00:06:47
approximately 12 photos these were taken on the day that the women were hiking that they hiked the Pista up the way to
00:06:56
the to the crest during the day on April 1st well like we said there was some selfies and there was a couple pictures
00:07:02
of each other taking pictures of their friend the last image from that day is of Chris standing on a rock looking as
00:07:12
though she's about to Traverse a small stream mhm it is sunny she does not appear to be in distress although now we
00:07:20
know that the women were not heading in the direction that they should have been
00:07:24
right they're heading the opposite direction we don't know exactly what time this photo was taken but we do know
00:07:30
that both women tried to call uh 112 after 400 p.m. that day so what happened in those roughly 3 hours between the
00:07:41
crest of the divide and the emergency calls or in the even smaller window between the last photo of Chris and the
00:07:49
calls well what we do know is that it gets dark very early here so it's going to get dark around 400 p.m. well it it
00:07:57
should start getting darker in the jungle around that time the sunset would have been 6:40 p.m. on that day so then
00:08:05
we have seven days later this is what I was referencing earlier where we have the earlier photos and then we have the
00:08:11
later photos we have roughly 12 pictures that are taken of the two women on the day that they're hiking on April 1st
00:08:19
right it's not until 7 Days Later that another photo was taken and Incredibly there were 90 Plus photos taken on the
00:08:26
camera in the middle of the night on April 8th a week after the women went missing and most of those pictures don't
00:08:34
make sense to either you or I and that's and that's why a lot of people speculate
00:08:41
that they're using the cameras flash as a way to see where they're going right and and I I apologize for laughing when
00:08:51
you were were talking there Captain but in all honesty you know most of the photos I say I think I think all of them
00:09:00
don't make sense to me right and I think because they don't make sense to me that
00:09:04
I find it eerie and I find it extremely creepy that that they don't make any sense and like you said it could be
00:09:10
something as simple as somebody using the flash of the camera to try to see in the middle of the night maybe they're
00:09:17
making their way on a trail maybe they're hearing something yeah and at some point you're going to see there's a
00:09:23
couple pictures of the back of one of the girls' heads and I would argue it's not a picture to show the the damage
00:09:35
really that it could have been well uh I think something's wrong with my head I think I hit my head and and the friend
00:09:42
saying okay well let me uh use the flash to see if I can see anything right right
00:09:48
also you could then look back at the camera to to view the pictures so to see okay well let me take a picture of it
00:09:57
let me see what's wrong with your head head but again you can't tell is it a person taking a picture of the back of
00:10:05
their is she taking a picture of the back of her head herself or is her friend taking the picture of the back of
00:10:12
her head okay well let's give a good uh good representation of these photos so the the people that have never seen any
00:10:19
of these can get an idea of what we're talking about here so seven days later 90 Plus photos taken
00:10:26
on the camera in the middle of the night April 8th right all of these photos appear to have been taken in the pitch
00:10:32
dark of night most of them only Seconds Apart using the Flash and they were taken over a 2 plus hour period the last
00:10:41
one was taken at 3:22 a.m. furthermore all the photos appear to have been taken from approximately the same spot you
00:10:49
know the photographer was not moving around more than a few meters right so what do these pictures show when when
00:10:57
viewed as a whole The Daily Beast says the photos seem to have some kind of pattern although they are all eerie and
00:11:05
Overexposed due to the flash in the in the Blackness all of the photos were taken in a steep jungle environment a
00:11:13
dozen or more of these photos are of a long range they're like hard to make out images and we see some close-up well-lit
00:11:22
images as well now the close-up welllet images are as follows there's a a single
00:11:27
photo of a bloody Temple area okay this is other people's words not not the Colonel's words here a single photo of a
00:11:37
blood bloody Temple area on what appears to be Chris's head this is based off of
00:11:43
the hair color right now the scary thing about this photo is it's not known whether she was alive when this photo
00:11:52
was taken it doesn't show us enough stuff for us to formulate a whole opinion and Theory off of what's seen or
00:12:01
what's available in that photo mhm then another photo would show a crude possibly a crude Direction marker made
00:12:08
out of tiny sticks and little pieces of of orange plastic now this many have speculated about what this is pieces of
00:12:18
some think it to be pieces from a plastic bag or even gum wrappers laid out on a large flat topped uh Boulder in
00:12:28
the background of this picture behind the boulder some believe that an enhanced version
00:12:34
shows that the markers might be pointing toward a in a straight line across the terrain to a possible monkey Bridge
00:12:42
remember we talked about those monkey Bridges yesterday a boulder another one shows a boulder or other rock surface
00:12:49
type thing uh with what appears to be paper or toilet tissue some have speculated that that
00:12:58
this might might be a possible attempt to spell something mhm and others point out that there is a rusty mirror in the
00:13:07
center of the letters to who knows what this is for could this be for to reflect
00:13:14
the flash of the light um look you you talked about the possibility of using the flash to be
00:13:23
able to see uh along a trail or maybe to see something in the jungle for whatever
00:13:29
reason others have speculated that could they have been using one or one or two of the women using the flash to Signal
00:13:37
something signal a helicopter searching for them or to Signal people searching in the jungle for them yeah I mean
00:13:46
that's very possible some of the shots appear to be looking downward into a Ravine and in one of them in particular
00:13:54
looking down into maybe a canyon Below in this particular particular photo there is a blurry object on the ground
00:14:02
and this is in the background and some believe some have stated that they think that that's a body the blurry object
00:14:09
there the tricky thing here Captain is on the we know from weather reports that there were several heavy rains in the
00:14:19
middle of the night on the 8th so given that time period we know these were taken in the middle of the
00:14:26
night could the rain drop have made it difficult for the camera to pick up images at a distance you know things
00:14:34
that maybe they could see with whoever's shooting these photos that they could see with their eyes that the camera just
00:14:40
simply isn't picking up for some reason yeah or were they hearing things and trying to use the light to see what
00:14:47
they're hearing or the light to scare something off if it's an animal like one of those monkeys or now so what's up
00:14:54
with these pictures is what everybody is talking about the thing I want to know is why would someone go for seven days
00:15:01
between photographs and then take a series of photos in the middle of the night using the flash all from the same
00:15:07
spot well maybe they're using other sources to light their way mhm such as their phones or but we have the we have
00:15:17
the log of the information of their phones they're not being turned on they're being shut off mhm or their
00:15:23
watch or I'm just saying I I I don't know I mean it's the whole thing is confusing yes yes it's it's very
00:15:32
confusing that some people have wondered if if this was an attempt to hint at their location you know like things are
00:15:42
super dire at this point they've been missing for a week right take some photos of where we last were or where I
00:15:50
last was because there might only be one of them left at this point right depending on what has happened is this
00:15:56
an attempt for someone to mark their location or is it an attempt to Mark the location where Chris uh died or was
00:16:04
incapacitated and I say Chris because we have that picture possible picture of the bloody Temple right I also wonder
00:16:13
I'm assuming this camera has the capability of also taking video so that's where then I wonder if you're
00:16:20
trying to leave answers for when somebody finds your belongings why don't you just toss on the video camera and
00:16:28
say hey this is where I'm at this is what happened I mean you see that in what's that movie 127
00:16:37
Hours he does the same thing puts his camera on him and basically says goodbye right so why wasn't that done if
00:16:46
that was the intent right I don't know if it was able to take video most most cameras nowadays
00:16:53
are um so I would assume that it was and that feature for for whatever reason if
00:16:59
it was available was not not used the other thing too is their we do know their phones you know you and I are more
00:17:07
familiar with their phones than this particular camera we know their phones would have had the ability to film a
00:17:12
video and that obviously was not done with the the phones right and again though it could be no power to the
00:17:20
phones right obviously too though we see an effort to conserve the battery of the
00:17:25
phone and yeah everybody knows shoot a video with your phone will drain the battery probably faster than just about
00:17:32
anything else yeah but then it also makes you just wonder did they come upon somebody or were they
00:17:40
being Guided by somebody and once they're dead are they messing with their stuff and messing with the
00:17:51
camera or were they dead and somebody Came Upon them right and found their belongings afterwards decide to power up
00:17:59
the phone on the 11th take some pictures on the eth right the the the strange thing to me though is we see a similar
00:18:08
Behavior with both with all three of these items right we have the phones that are used for days from the up until
00:18:14
the 6th and then then not used again until the 11th and then with the camera we have the camera being used on the
00:18:22
first and then not used again until the eth it just seems like a strange pattern
00:18:29
of behavior whether it's done intentionally done by one of the women or both or someone else right it's it's
00:18:37
done by somebody we can we can agree with that there may be a a glitch I will go with a glitch more likely on the
00:18:44
phone these photos were taken by somebody right okay so there was a glitch that took uh 90 pictures Well I
00:18:52
and I say you know and I know it sounds silly to say there was no glitch that took 90 pictures but furthermore on that
00:18:59
is we have this aspect because I I had I did read somebody speculate that like okay let's say the one of the girls had
00:19:08
the one of the women had the phone um not the phone the camera on her person and passed away expired from from any
00:19:17
number of reasons all right MH could could an animal have come up and been messing with the body and
00:19:26
accidentally bumped the phone or causing you know bump right sorry I keep saying
00:19:31
phone when I mean to say camera right but at that point you're getting into crazy speculation because what you're
00:19:36
getting into is that uh one of the individuals passed away the camera was on her an animal comes up accidentally
00:19:45
hits these photos that are taken at all different angles so the not only does the the animal take the pictures but it
00:19:53
moves the camera in 90 different ways and then magically the camera gets back into the book bag right that's I mean
00:20:02
that's just too much speculation not too much speculation it's [ __ ] impossible I mean sorry to put it I
00:20:11
can't put it any more politely oh Jesus somebody's somebody's got the dirty mouth I'm not going to lie to you I was
00:20:17
actually pissed off that I that I read someone's thoughts about that happening that way like whatever so anyway and
00:20:26
what here's what we do know and this is real stuff so the investigators with the
00:20:30
help of guides they're like they were actually able to pinpoint exactly where some of these mysterious photos were
00:20:38
taken right or at least the ones that show the markers on the rock that were calling those directional markers if in
00:20:46
fact that's what they are I actually think uh law enforcement called those the emergency markers okay so and and
00:20:54
they basically were able to find the exact location the exact Rock where that photo was taken so this site is about 3
00:21:01
miles straight downhill from Boke the town where they were going to stay this is on the Western Bank of a tributary
00:21:09
that feeds into that Big River there so this is about 12 hours by foot from the trail that they were on Now the shorts
00:21:19
were supposedly found in the river right near where these photos were taken or they you know folded up neatly placed
00:21:28
inside the river there um and a few kilometers Upstream from where the backpack washed up or was placed right
00:21:37
it is also about 2 km Upstream from where the first of the body parts was found so nearby are several abandoned
00:21:46
noi Huts that the women might have spotted and possibly could have even used as makeshift shelters before they
00:21:53
met their Fates right so and from this spot had they been able to continue along the river following the trail
00:22:02
Through the Jungle they would have got to the noi Village before too long so what this what what this means is if in
00:22:11
fact one of the women was taking these pictures or both of them and if one or both of them made it to where their
00:22:19
belongings made it to they did possibly have shelter and they weren't very far away from other people right the the big
00:22:29
question in this whole deal Captain is really I think we're left with two very simple explanations as to what happened
00:22:38
we either have an accident that you know that these women died and expired because of an accident
00:22:47
or they met with Foul Play [Music] somehow this show is sponsored by better help do
00:23:01
you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's
00:23:07
natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can
00:23:13
counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel
00:23:20
grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better
00:23:27
help at try it's entirely online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a
00:23:34
brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional
00:23:40
charge find your bright spot this season with better help visit betterhelp.com garaget toay to get 10% off your first
00:23:48
month that's betterhelp hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact
00:24:00
I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words
00:24:04
but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an
00:24:11
awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen
00:24:17
on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger the Angie's List you know
00:24:25
and trust is now Angie and we're so much more than just a list we still connect you with top local pros and show you
00:24:33
ratings and reviews but now we also let you compare upfront prices on hundreds of projects and book a service instantly
00:24:40
we can even handle the rest of your project from start to finish so remember Angie's List is now Angie and we're here
00:24:48
to get your job done right get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app
00:24:54
[Music] today [Music] cheers mates cheers Captain let's get into the possibilities here accident or
00:25:11
Foul Play Because let's start with accident well I want to give a shout out real quick a big cheers to all the
00:25:18
veterans that Serve and Protect US yes want give it a little cheers as I'm drinking and thoughts and prayers with
00:25:25
everybody in California hang in there um so if everyone analyzing the photos left on the Canon camera if they are
00:25:35
correct from what I found it seems that for whatever reason they all believe that the two women decided to deviate
00:25:43
from the trail that they were traveling on that day and proceeded down the other
00:25:47
side of the Divide right it makes you wonder when they're looking this stuff up online cuz we know that they did
00:25:53
right mhm that did they see something where they go oh well we can go past for example I was in Hawaii once and there
00:26:02
was a trail called the road to Hana and the whole thing was once you got to Hana
00:26:08
that you would turn around right but there was also a couple miles of a unfinished road
00:26:14
that you could take and loop back around and I decided to take the unpaved UN you
00:26:23
know finished Road there you go so is there something that they saw that was like well once you get to the summit
00:26:30
point you can go a little bit further to see whatever right and that maybe it wasn't that they were going to that they
00:26:38
willy-nilly got lost but they just also didn't understand that the darkness was going to be falling on them around 4:00
00:26:47
in the jungle so did they get a little bit too F did they get a little too far out and then decide oh we made a mistake
00:26:57
AK well I so what most people suggest is that okay we have the first 112 call attempt was shortly after 4:30 p.m. on
00:27:08
that day still daylight at this time but it's probably pretty dark in the jungle
00:27:13
then well sunsets at 6:40 p.m. on on April 1st so whatever you know take that information for what it is we're not in
00:27:23
the jungle broadcasting here today no so many people believe that this call was likely placed because one of the women
00:27:31
had been hurt in some kind of accident that's what I have seen online that's what the Reddit people seem to think
00:27:37
that an accident occurred around this time and that's why the first 112 call attempt was made at 430 p.m. perhaps a
00:27:45
fall some kind of twisted ankle I mean any number of injuries broke her ankle imagination yes yeah so the problem I
00:27:54
have with this thought and Theory I'm not saying it's impossible I'm not saying that it's unlikely but what I'm
00:28:02
saying is I think that later evidence might prove or or at least suggest that it's more likely this was not the
00:28:12
situation and what I mean by that is their belongings their remains they found a good distance from this location
00:28:21
so let's say that they traveled um walking distance 3 hours roughly by the time they make that first
00:28:28
attempt to 112 well walking distance they're found like 12 hours from where we know they
00:28:36
were happy and alive right so that's another 9 hours walking distance right and if you snapped your ankle then you
00:28:45
might not be making it that far yes I think what might be more likely at 4:30 p.m. is that maybe they realized they
00:28:54
had become lost right and I think that there's a good chance that maybe they didn't realize that they were lost until
00:29:01
like 3 hours into the hike back mhm because look and like I said earlier I'm not I'm not an experienced hiker I'm not
00:29:10
a well experienced hiker but I do know this I've been out plenty of times where I'm hiking I'm camping I'm out in the
00:29:17
wilderness and I'm walking on Trails a lot of the stuff looks the same you know and if you didn't take
00:29:24
really good mental note of things on your way up you may have simply just gone on the
00:29:30
wrong trail thinking you were just returning down on the same trail that you had come up maybe you got turned
00:29:35
around while you were up at the top there right you started down the wrong way I think haven't all of us been there
00:29:41
where we're traveling down the trail and we go it might be a half hour 45 minutes
00:29:46
an hour into it and you're going I'm starting to getting the feeling like I haven't like maybe I went the wrong way
00:29:51
yes but what do we do most of us just continue on going because we're like ah like I'm probably wrong well I haven't
00:29:58
hiked Trails like this but I've I've done a lot of hiking and like parks and stuff and like you said some of the
00:30:04
trails you go somewhere and then you come back but most of them there's some kind of loop around even if you get to
00:30:11
the end and it's just a circle that Loops you back to the path you just on that lets you know hey oh well [ __ ] this
00:30:18
one didn't loop around I have to go back the way I came but some of the trails they just
00:30:24
loop back around so there's there's been times I've been on trail that we did two
00:30:28
or three loops and I'm like man this Trail is long and they're like what are you talking about we finished the trail
00:30:34
three times right and I'm like oh but that's also you know you probably shouldn't drink a lot of beers before
00:30:41
you go hiking but so now you're in this area that has way more trees and they're
00:30:49
in the jungle man right that's I mean that's the most simple way to put it yeah and I just again again is it that
00:30:57
wrong to think that maybe there was some reason that they were going to go a little further than what the initial
00:31:05
hike is supposed to be and they just got lost and this is just a it was a mistake
00:31:12
and it's a very tragic way to die but you know there's really no evidence of a crime here so far right so far and the
00:31:22
thing is though too you know this is these are not hallways you know we're not talking about always it's not like a
00:31:28
situation where you're you're walking for an hour hour and a half two hours even and you go shoot I think I've gone
00:31:34
the wrong way I'll just turn around and and go back right you know we're talking
00:31:39
about who knows the number of trails that are going on this other side here and what I mean by that is how many
00:31:46
times even if I figured out finally that I've gone the wrong direction mhm how many times do I come to a fork in the
00:31:53
road a fork in the path on that trail trying to return get back to the the correct Trail and have to choose a
00:32:02
direction did I go left here did I go right here you know what I mean it's it's a
00:32:07
mind game and I think what what personally may have happened here is that we have a situation I think they've
00:32:14
called in and they realize that they're lost I don't think they called in with with an injury at 4:30 p.m. on that
00:32:20
first day I agree but based on the fact that they end up 12 um 12 hours away right from from where that call took
00:32:29
place so and also there's there's so many times where experiened hikers have gone missing and these girls you know by
00:32:39
all accounts are not experienced hikers well and there's no markers indicating that they are going the right way or
00:32:46
what direction they should take right so that are at a huge disadvantage no matter what in an area that they're not
00:32:51
familiar with so let's say that the women did become lost at some point and once they once they got lost it's kind
00:32:58
of easy to understand how they could have quickly have gotten into trouble the tropical cloud forest where the
00:33:03
women uh where we believe the women were this is a wild area this is venomous snakes this is insects poisonous plants
00:33:12
there's uncountable hazards out there right and also remember that the footing in these little used Trails is very
00:33:20
Rocky and unstable and the trails can instantly become rushing waterways with these tropical storms that can come in
00:33:29
at at a moment's notice right but even worse the region is mountainous and uneven with revines and crevices and
00:33:36
cliffs and sometimes these things are hidden in the jungle now there is a predominant Theory out there that at
00:33:43
least one of the women fell to her death so under my thought this would be some point after they became lost in the
00:33:52
jungle that one of the women fell to her death or was severely injured during this fall possibly off of a monkey
00:33:59
Bridge so interestingly one of the photos taken in the dark on April 8th this um the one with what investigators
00:34:08
believe is a makeshift directional markers made up of twigs and plastic pieces right seems to show one of these
00:34:17
Bridges remember we referenced that earlier in the background and some have wondered was Lianne trying to indicate
00:34:24
that Chris possibly fell off of a monkey bridge now okay so I probably should have got into this a long time ago to to
00:34:33
clarify what a monkey bridge is um for the most part you can kind of picture uh Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and
00:34:43
use your imagination a little bit but basically a monkey Bridge is a rope or piece of cable that is used to cross
00:34:51
Gorges rivers or you know any number of obstacles um there is one strand of rope
00:34:58
or cable for walking on and two strands up above on either side for people to hold on to while they're carefully
00:35:06
attempting to rock walk across mhm so all three of these ropes or cables will be anchored on either side of the
00:35:14
obstacle that you're trying to Traverse so what makes this Theory popular is that the women's remains and backpack
00:35:22
were found near the river Downstream from an actual monkey bridge near which the night photos were taken and the
00:35:31
shorts were believed to have been found the thinking is that Chris perished somehow on the Eastern side of the river
00:35:39
where her shorts may have been found and Leanne attempted to go on from there but
00:35:45
mind you at this point she would have been weakened by a week or more of no food and who knows how much water she's
00:35:53
consumed during this week right so no food little to know water was she not able to navigate the M multiple monkey
00:36:03
Bridges and possibly fell breaking her foot which would immobilize her you know leaving her stranded in one of the
00:36:12
Gorges along the river system the other thing too that might suggest this we do know that the bones
00:36:18
of leeanne's foot were broken inside of the boot because that's the way they were found later right other things that
00:36:27
point to an accident incapacitating at least one of the women include the photo of the head injury on Chris's
00:36:35
Temple again we don't know if she was mobile or even alive when the photo was taken but these kind of situations that
00:36:43
we've just discussed they're not uncommon you know for people traveling abroad to Exotic dangerous places MH
00:36:51
they're not familiar with they go out into the woods they go out on an adventure and they become injured at
00:36:58
some point every day that you're out there every hour that you're out there that's why they have a certain path that
00:37:03
you go hey go up to this point and come back and that's still you know 6 hours of you know tracking back and forth and
00:37:11
I'm sure that people still get injured doing that but when you're out there for so many days and so many hours and so
00:37:16
many miles of walking it's more likely that these things are going to happen now there are some people that would
00:37:23
would say Nick you're wrong um that that's not likely and they point to this is a well-known fact that there have
00:37:32
been other people other tourists that have gotten lost on that exact Trail or the surrounding trails and then later
00:37:39
been located by guides or uh Searchers using dogs right okay so th this but this case has been suggested was
00:37:50
suggested to me a lot and then once I started diving into it right away it's it's very creepy there with the phone
00:37:57
log with the photos there's a lot of stuff to take a look at and Ponder I'm I'm still wondering where where there's
00:38:05
evidence of a crime because I don't see it yet well okay so we before and I'm not saying that you see it either I'm
00:38:14
just saying that people have point to the fact that this could be a crime well no you're right I mean it's often
00:38:22
discussed in areas that in forums that you would discuss True Crime right okay and I think it's the fact of
00:38:30
not knowing it's we don't know for sure what has happened uh more to the thought
00:38:36
of an accident occurred we do have survival Specialists commenting on this specific case and they've referenced
00:38:43
cases that they've studied in the past citing that people in these situations can often survive for a week or maybe
00:38:51
even 10 days but almost never survive two weeks right and if one one or both of them were injured then obviously that
00:39:00
would com compound things significantly right there was a Wilderness expert for The Daily Beast that concluded that this
00:39:08
was very likely a tragic accident we also have the local public prosecutor who ruled that it was an accident and
00:39:16
she emphasized that there is no indication of any Trauma from cutting stabbing or violent dismemberment on the
00:39:23
bones that were found I have a big problem with that statement while that statement is very
00:39:30
true right I question the evidence because we discussed these are bone fragments right how brok and and some of
00:39:40
them are broken bone fragments okay so so let's before we go down any crazy roads off of the accident thing let's
00:39:48
get into the thought of Foul Play because obviously bizarre circumstances in this case of course have given rise
00:39:55
to the speculation about what could have happened to Chris and Leanne so although
00:40:00
quite a bit of evidence points to a tragic accidental death there are plenty of people who are not willing to chalk
00:40:07
up the strange circumstances of this case to the women just getting lost so conspiracy theories are they're out
00:40:16
there right so the deaths of Chris and Leanne have been blamed on cannibals cartel Hitmen drug mules organ
00:40:27
traffickers serial killer straight up conventional kidnapping or rape right um you know there's no really shortage of
00:40:37
Foul Play theories out there perhaps the theories go they did not head down the other side of the trail or the Divide of
00:40:45
their own accord if they came across someone dangerous on their track perhaps that person or persons forced Chris and
00:40:54
Leanne to walk toward WS the bcus Del Toro right instead of back to the town which I'd agree with other than the fact
00:41:02
that we have we still have pictures after that point right as of them having like a good time what's that well it
00:41:10
looks like they're still having pictures of them traveling and having a good time
00:41:14
oh yeah yeah I'm sorry I was thinking about the pictures on April 8th um no there is at least one picture that shows
00:41:21
them believed to be on the other side of the divide and just as you said you know
00:41:27
you can only view one of the women in the picture but she doesn't seem to be stressed she doesn't seem to be you know
00:41:34
uh she's not being held hostage because she's the only one in the picture it's weird that we don't have more
00:41:40
eyewitnesses that saw him on the trail because I'd really like to know where they being Guided by somebody because
00:41:46
somebody that's guiding them further than they're supposed to go and oh no no we'll just keep going past here well
00:41:54
this is a shortcut this is the right way right or yeah I'll show you a shortcut or just a little bit further this way
00:42:01
there's something really cool you need to see and that's when I'm going to you know attack you I'm not going to tell
00:42:08
you that while we're going down the trail and so of course they get past that point they're still taking pictures
00:42:14
but they did take quite a few pictures you'd think that maybe there would be some evidence that there'd be somebody
00:42:20
else with them well okay so the thought on that is that exact Theory might explain why there were no marks on trees
00:42:31
arrows scratched on rocks or Trails of fabric or any kind of other Clues left behind by the women you know sometimes
00:42:39
you see these kind of things done by people that are lost right and we don't see that here well you possibly see that
00:42:47
in the little what they're calling the emergency markings you know but that would be seven days later right correct
00:42:54
my thought here is let's say they are alone or you know you bring up the interesting thought if they're being led
00:43:01
away there and they think they're going in the right direction they're being told they're going in the right
00:43:05
direction they wouldn't leave any markers you know so that would explain that or do you have a situation where
00:43:10
they're lost and they don't realize that they're lost and they're moving further
00:43:14
and further from their point the other thing that might Point towards possible Foul Play is that we
00:43:22
have we do know that calls were attempted you know for few days after April 1st and they stopped on the
00:43:29
eventually but we do know at least someone is using the phone there you know and eventually
00:43:35
they're not using the pen anymore you know was this someone that didn't know the the women and didn't know the pen
00:43:42
right another factor that gives rise to theories of Foul Play are the very you know the very little that was found of
00:43:50
the women's remains right and the state of those remains for one thing where are
00:43:55
the larger body parts yeah put it crudely sorry chock a lot of that up to the elements plus the animals I would
00:44:07
agree with that but I did find some people familiar with the area that point out that when cows are killed by
00:44:14
poisonous snakes in this area or drown in floods in the area that the entire carcasses are are often found or
00:44:22
actually every according to these people are always found and found intact um and then we do have a
00:44:30
situation where the body of a little girl who drowned in the river was found also intact this was after a week um we
00:44:39
should point out that Chris and Leanne were gone for months before you know their remains were found but their
00:44:46
remains are found in little bits and pieces right now experts in various sources have indicated that
00:44:54
decomposition would be very slow in the cloud forest environment because it's Shady damp and cool and deterioration is
00:45:02
delayed so if this in fact is true that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because so little is found
00:45:11
of these poor women yeah and I I I definitely think that piece of evidence makes me question this you know was it
00:45:20
an accident or was this Foul Play the other thing is the book bag the just the condition of was found in what was found
00:45:28
in it it just uh that really gets me now I don't want to discredit the power of insects and you will never hear another
00:45:39
show ever say that exact sentence I don't want to discredit the power of insects man because I'm telling you you
00:45:45
if you watch Nat goo Channel enough they'll show those little like um you know it's like the images that they
00:45:53
speed up with the a camera that's recorded ing a whole group of ants or insects that will get on something and
00:46:01
then over the course of a day or week devour it to the point where it will fall apart right um so I'm not I'm not
00:46:09
saying that just because of what these experts say that the deterioration would have been slow I think what they're
00:46:15
they're speaking in generalities there who knows what space you know the exact space that these bodies were left in be
00:46:23
it from an accident or from an attack right now what we do know is the area that it's believed that they were last
00:46:32
alive given the photographs in these areas there's no like large cats or crocodiles or big predators in in this
00:46:42
particular area and that might be why the the people from the tribe at one time were living in this spot yeah and
00:46:51
and I also I still like I can't go over like I said the the way the book bag is found but also the shorts is very
00:46:59
interesting if they were truly folded yes all right so let's go into the book bag first then we'll get to the shorts
00:47:07
because I was thinking the same thing and a lot of people point out that that okay because there's flash flooding in
00:47:13
this area very regularly so if I expire and I'm anywhere near the river if I die
00:47:21
from an accident or just you know succumbing to the elements at some point there could be a flash flood that would
00:47:28
then wash me into the river and wash me down the river right right this could account
00:47:35
for my body being tore up in the process over the course of months or however long depending on what's going on with
00:47:42
the added you know we have animals we have now we have the river we have all kinds of things going on however like
00:47:48
you said the backpack is found very near the river so if that backpack is with me
00:47:53
up until the point of I pass away we got to believe that the backpack and me took a similar trip down the river
00:48:02
the backpack it's a cheap you know it's a cheap backpack MH that would have likely Fallen apart in a Rushing River
00:48:11
and if you're going to say that that's what happened to my body but it didn't happen to the backpack I have a bit of
00:48:15
an issue with that right I find it extremely strange that not only is a backback found in good condition is
00:48:21
found in very likely very good condition and now we have little pieces and parts of
00:48:28
of bodies here now you're touching on something interesting too is the shorts well we have a discrepancy on how the
00:48:37
shorts were actually found if they were found in the river okay that that points
00:48:42
to to me I guess more likely an accident right if they're folded up and place neatly somewhere near the river okay
00:48:53
what does that leave us with Captain two options here we got the option of some killer took these shorts and
00:49:01
folded them up and placed them neatly near the river or the person wearing the shorts one of the women took them off
00:49:07
folded them up and placed them near the river but right I I don't see a woman stranded in the jungle taking off her
00:49:16
shorts and going pantless you know going without her shorts in the jungle trying
00:49:21
to stay alive I I mean I guess unless it was something to wash up in the river I I don't know I can't make
00:49:28
it's much like the pictures and much like the activity on the cell phones it's hard to make sense out of really
00:49:37
any of this well that's what's so frustrating I mean the things that make this case so interesting are these
00:49:44
photos the things that make you know uh the call log these items that makes the case so interesting and then on the flip
00:49:51
side of things I feel bad because the family having these logs to look over and these photos to look over it's like
00:50:00
this it feels like it's a puzzle that you can put together and make sense of it but I don't know if you
00:50:07
can right now one thing we've not talked about is photo9 yeah 509 one thing I want to get into
00:50:18
something before we get to that real quick is is a thought that we have this is something you see a lot when people
00:50:26
are stranded and they know they've lost all hope that they're not going to be found they're not going to be rescued
00:50:33
they're not going to be saved they often will leave some kind of note message uh
00:50:40
recording something for their loved ones for their wives their children their mother their father their husbands
00:50:47
boyfriend whomever somebody that means a lot to them they want to tell them something because you have the time to
00:50:53
do it and you know your that the end is near we have two women with with cell phones with a
00:51:02
camera with a backpack there's no we found no evidence that they've left anything for any of those loved
00:51:10
ones they didn't record any videos like you had said right which also makes it lean towards Foul Play and other than
00:51:17
the bloody the possible picture of the bloody Temple or the blurry object that might be a body in the background in one
00:51:23
of the pictures the 90 the 90 pictures that are taken in the middle of the night they're not of of the girls
00:51:31
they're not of the women they're just random stuff there's not there's not a selfie to show that I'm injured there's
00:51:39
not a picture of my friend who's injured or has passed away that's obvious but what there is is a missing photo there's
00:51:49
the missing photo of 509 and the weird thing about that is okay so we have on April 1st the day of the
00:52:01
hike the last photo taken that's on the camera during that afternoon it's number
00:52:07
508 right then there is a 7-Day Hiatus in the photo taking and the Canon resumes taking pictures uh with the
00:52:15
night shots that we discussed the first of which is numbered 510 right so where is
00:52:23
509 now as The Daily Beast put it it's it's the one picture that would fall between the existing daytime and
00:52:32
nighttime photos and thus could give us a clue as to why Chris and Leanne kept hiking and what or who they may have
00:52:40
encountered out there it is not thought likely that the women would have deleted
00:52:46
this crucial picture themselves while out on the trail none of the other night pictures were deleted although some of
00:52:54
them appear to show nothing investigators were unable to retrieve the image from the camera camera's
00:53:02
memory card leading some to believe that it had been deleted on a computer right
00:53:08
so this is where it gets very interesting is they believe they can tell you know
00:53:16
you take a picture with your camera well you didn't like it so you just delete it
00:53:19
real quick move on to the next one that would make sense on why we don't have a 509 but when authorities are saying well
00:53:27
we think it's more likely that the camera is actually connected to a computer to delete that
00:53:34
picture wow right I mean that's GameChanger I mean if if they have the technology to prove that then to me
00:53:44
there's no question that this was Foul Play right and you're not going to just randomly come across a computer out in
00:53:51
the middle of the Jungle so that means the camera was in some some else's possession if in fact that 9 photo was
00:53:59
deleted from a computer and why would someone go to all that effort to delete the photo and then
00:54:07
return the camera with memory card to the backpack in the general walking area of where it's believed the women were
00:54:16
last alive MH very very strange stuff you have to wonder we referenced a possible glitch
00:54:26
in the phones earlier could it have been some kind of glitch right or could there
00:54:33
be some damage that we don't know about water or whatever that is that even though the picture was deleted by the
00:54:41
camera that it made um the data that they're reading look a different way I'm just I'm I'm
00:54:50
throwing out I have no clue about that technology but what it comes down to is I think if you can figure out how 509
00:54:59
was deleted then you will get to the answer of whether it was an accident or a murder well and what the hell could be
00:55:08
on that photo too could be the person that is responsible for them never being found or a bloodied victim I mean any
00:55:16
number of things really pop to mind because you're talking about the photos that we see on the on April 1st appear
00:55:23
to be of two young strong vibrant women out on a hike having a good time out in the sunshine of a of a of a trip that
00:55:32
they wanted to go on right that's what we see that's all that indicates to me is going on and then boom seven days
00:55:41
later we got pictures random pictures in the dark that make no damn sense at all
00:55:46
but that's why it makes sense to me though if they went off Trail for whatever reason and then they stumbled
00:55:53
upon they're looking for help they're called for help they know that they're lost and here comes somebody that goes
00:55:59
hey what are you girls doing can I help you and maybe it's just like after a little bit of traveling it's like they
00:56:07
take a picture with this individual ah you know what I mean and then something terrible goes down after
00:56:14
that picture and that individual is still around to delete it right and like I said you find out why that was deleted
00:56:25
you figure out the answer of whether or not this was an accident or a murder it does seem like a lot of effort to go to
00:56:35
if you're that person but not necessarily so much so that you know look if if if I did
00:56:42
something like that of course and I know that my picture was taken by these women
00:56:46
I'm going to get that photo off of there but what I mean is the effort to return
00:56:51
it to the scene right but here's the here's what I want to know and and somebody could answer this probably in
00:56:57
the blog truecar.com here's what I want to know is you know I have a nice camera like this I don't
00:57:07
know if I delete the picture after I take the picture if I delete it from my camera am I able to retrieve that cuz
00:57:17
what we do know is law enforcement can't even retrieve 509 so what if this person
00:57:22
had knowledge that said well if I did delete it from the camera there's still a way for them to retrieve this but if I
00:57:29
delete it from a computer there's zero way for them to Tre uh uh retrieve this picture I don't know the answers if
00:57:37
somebody has that answer please go to the blog and and let us know wow you're right I mean you okay
00:57:45
that's crowdsourcing right there because there will be somebody out there listening that has somebody right now is
00:57:50
saying you guys are idiots this is how it works and uh some yeah somebody else is screaming
00:57:58
stop doing Miss iners cases it's not true crime even though missing person cases are handled by law enforcement so
00:58:05
it is true crime but I but I do get it sometimes well the prosecutor had to give their opinion as to what took place
00:58:12
in this this particular incident so here's the thing you're right crowdsource someone out there knows this
00:58:20
camera very well and I guess what you're saying like to me the lay person what I'm thinking is something as simple as
00:58:27
my phone okay my phone I take a picture I delete the ones I don't like but there
00:58:32
is an extra folder on my phone that says delete this forever you know like we'll
00:58:38
hold this for 30 days 60 days or whatever for for Nick to determine if he actually doesn't like this photo or not
00:58:45
right so yeah that's interesting to find out now I did find a Blog one one blog that I found that said that the missing
00:58:55
photo is being held back at the request of the family th this who knows exactly that's
00:59:04
right if that's his rumor or not right and who knows who's posting that really so personally I don't know that I can
00:59:11
see this being true simply for the fact that we have we have other statements by
00:59:17
Authority saying we can't retrieve that photo why even bother to say you know well may again maybe they're just lying
00:59:25
to protect one of these females which if they are lying for that I mean at least
00:59:31
that's a good reason a lie now I do want to throw this out there before we get into our thoughts about what could have
00:59:38
happened to these two teras but it you know most all of the um experts that have looked into this case
00:59:49
and I mean local e experts and even Dutch experts that were flown to the area that have reviewed this case they
00:59:58
all state that they believe the cause of death they can't while they cannot determine the cause of death they all
01:00:05
have pretty much come to the conclusion that this was an accident that this is an accidental death uh that the the
01:00:13
women became lost or injured and at some point both succumb to the elements what do you think happened here
01:00:23
Captain well I'm not even going to all I'm going to say is if you tell me that that 509 pH photo 509 was deleted
01:00:32
from a computer you don't have to tell me anything else cuz I can't there's no logic in my brain that could explain
01:00:41
that so um well that would have to mean that they either left the jungle or the camera left the jungle right and if the
01:00:50
camera left the jungle and they did not then I'm then some something right so that that to me that's your
01:00:58
answer and that's all you need to know and and if law enforcement knows for a fact that that camera left and went to a
01:01:06
computer to have a picture deleted and they still want to come up with this [ __ ] that it's an accident well well
01:01:14
just they wouldn't though that's just nonsense but if it's just speculation that it was deleted from a a computer
01:01:22
but they pretty for sure that it was deleted could have been deleted by accident from the um from the camera and
01:01:32
if they knew that then definitely it's an accident see I don't think they know that you know obviously like you said
01:01:38
because it had they known that it was deleted from a computer then then something terrible who in their right
01:01:44
mind could make statements that they're making something terrible happened what what I think we have here is I think we
01:01:49
have a situation where there's a missing photo and reporters are saying well why
01:01:54
would that be why why can't you retrieve the photo the photo should tell us what
01:01:59
happened to these women unfortunately look we have over 100 photos that don't tell us what happened
01:02:05
to these women right so maybe that one extra photo doesn't help us any more than the other crap photos that we've
01:02:11
seen right and what I mean by that is I I feel like they're they're pressuring and and pushing law enforcement or the
01:02:19
investigators who you know I I think we should be clear in the reports it often says investigators I don't know that
01:02:25
that 100% means all the time it's actual law enforcement okay so the investigators are pushed and they're
01:02:33
saying well how could that be man that you have this camera you can retrieve all these other photos but you can't
01:02:39
retrieve this one well that could be any number of reasons like this that the other thing removed by a computer blah
01:02:47
blah blah blah blah blah blah you know so it could be nine or 10 different reasons why that that was uh deleted and
01:02:55
they can't retrieve it the other thing here though too is I wouldn't fully say that if somebody could prove to me that
01:03:04
the photo was deleted by the camera by someone using and operating the camera I wouldn't I wouldn't immediately say well
01:03:13
then they weren't killed they weren't murdered right because why the hell would that photo be deleted and all the
01:03:19
one other you know 100 other photos that right but you can logically explain that
01:03:23
as far as was like oh it was an accident or they took somebody took a selfie that
01:03:28
they didn't like so they deleted it right so I mean there's there's all these logical reasons but there is no
01:03:35
logical reason for this to um leave the jungle be deleted and then come back to the Jungle there's no logical
01:03:43
explanation other than um somebody didn't want that picture on there bad well and I think for this this is a
01:03:51
problem uh that you and the listeners suggested this case it's a it's a big problem because this the information in
01:04:01
this case in this case itself it does keep me up at night there's so many possibilities there's so many unanswered
01:04:08
questions yeah try having like uh I think I had like four Bourbon and cokes and I was watching a nice funny movie I
01:04:16
was watching the Adam Sandler thing um and and then all of a sudden I was like well let me take a look at these photos
01:04:23
again and then 4 hours later I'm like I don't know what I'm looking at I'm a big
01:04:28
fan of this is one of my guilty pleasures I'm a big fan of the show naked and afraid where they take a
01:04:35
couple people and they dump them out in the middle of nowhere with no clothes and basically you get to bring like one
01:04:41
item with you right and that's it and that's all and you some of these people crap out after I saw one person crap out
01:04:48
after eight hours like I'm done tapping out mine would be like8 minutes I I've seen some I've seen some people make it
01:04:55
like 21 days and it's you know watching that show often I thought well looking into this case I might be able to see
01:05:02
some indicators of survival techniques that they used the interesting thing here is that they if in fact they were
01:05:10
alive and this was an accident or they got lost or both they were these two women were smart enough to power off
01:05:17
these phones and not use them unnecessarily you know only when needed they were using these phones in attempt
01:05:23
to get a res effort out there right what troubles me is the inactiveness of both
01:05:31
the phones and the camera yes for so much time and here's the thing it doesn't necessarily mean that they were
01:05:40
murdered what I think might be the situation and that I think has caused a lot of confusion in this case mhm I
01:05:49
think that it's very likely that someone or someone's may have found found their
01:05:54
remains and found their belongings before they were located by people actually searching for them right and it
01:06:02
could be as simple as somebody out in the jungle comes across uh a phone two phones a camera and decides to check
01:06:10
them out and play with them and see what they can do with them and then later that person person gets a conscious or
01:06:17
hands it over to this noi tribe woman and she says look I've seen because there were missing photos remember we we
01:06:25
mentioned there was a missing poster for both of these girls so people in the area did have a general idea that
01:06:32
somebody was missing that two women were missing and this woman may have said look I I got to take this stuff to to
01:06:39
law enforcement and let them know this is what I found right and and and but 30 30 sets of fingerprints unidentified
01:06:47
fingerprints are on the contents of that backgr right but figure out what happened to photo five 9 you you'll
01:06:54
figure out what happened to these [Music] girls and before we wrap up this week here Captain we got a little recommended
01:07:05
reading the book we Are recommending this week is called my son the killer the untold story of Luca magnata in One
01:07:11
Lunatic and one ice pick by Brian Whitney co-authored with Anna yorin this is Luca's mother Luca does not do
01:07:20
interviews but true crime author and friend of our show Brian Whitney was able to get Luca to talk for this book
01:07:28
and we interviewed Brian Whitney on our other show off the Record which if you want to check that out you can get that
01:07:35
on Stitcher premium we did that this week so to find full archives of our old shows of all of the True Crime garage
01:07:43
episodes you can get that on the Stitcher app and if you want to check out the awesome show off the Record
01:07:50
that's only available on Stitcher premium and you can get a free month of listening by going to Stitcher
01:07:55
premium.com truecrimegarage and use promo code garage we hope everybody has a good week
01:08:02
be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] you can start your day off right when
01:08:35
you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals
01:08:42
to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you
01:08:46
Angie that