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[Music] [Applause] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
00:01:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that would like to point out that if Hannibal
00:01:50
Lecter could run a 4340 he would have been drafted by the Oakland Raiders and they would just say
00:01:55
that he had an eating disorder and that man is the captain and he probably complained about the fit of his helmet
00:02:02
it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
00:02:08
[Music] friend this week we are drinking cheer team ale by three Floyd's Brewing
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Company this is big bold juicy and fruity a New England IPA ABV 7.1% garage grade 4 and a half bottle
00:02:29
caps out of and this week's beer was brought to us by our very good friends joining us in
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the garage we have Brienne in yat New Mexico and a big shout out to Carrie G and Parts Unknown next up we have Satie
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and her awesome father listening in Branson Missouri and a big what up to Sarah and Madison Wisconsin next we have
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Danny in Springtown Texas and Captain this is how far behind we are on the shout out line right Danny wants us to
00:02:59
to cover the missing Fort Worth Trio which of course we did some point after he donated to the Beer fund of course so
00:03:07
thank you to Danny that is a fascinating case and he says that we would make excellent baseball commentators Cubs way
00:03:15
Cubs way looks like we're going to have a career after this gig is over right Captain sing in a mess and last but
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certainly not least here is a supercharged cheers to Anna and beautiful beautiful Delaware Ohio thank
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you to everybody for helping out with this week's beer fund if you want to help fill up the fridge for next week's
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show go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate button and for all of our old episodes check our show out
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on the Stitcher app and we have a weekly show called off the Record so if you need more garage go sign up you can go
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to True Crim garage.com and click on off the Record and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather
00:03:55
around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] we have seven bodies in this
00:04:17
investigation a huge investigation going on and a lot of media coverage now law enforcement they were worried that the
00:04:26
discovery of the bodies and the media coverage that followed could invoke an evil reaction from our undetected serial
00:04:33
killer where he might go on a mass murdering spree ultimately seeking more victims more chaos and panic and a
00:04:42
suicide by cop ending and we have these extensive profiles but really we don't have a ton of evidence the biggest
00:04:48
evidence that we probably have in this whole scenario is the bullets that they left behind from the target practice
00:04:56
Yeah the cuts and stab wounds are not extremely valuable from a clue standpoint you know we've discussed this
00:05:04
before it's just difficult matching these up to a knife or another sharp object when you have nothing to compare
00:05:10
them to now the bindings are of good value though anything that was used to bind the victims in some of these C
00:05:18
cases we know that they used rope and electrical tape that sort of thing so yes Captain you're exactly right the the
00:05:27
most valuable clues that they're going to have are the bullets the shell casings the cartridge containers as well
00:05:36
as these ropes and electrical tape that was used on the victims yeah I would assume that it would be hard but not
00:05:44
impossible to take these shell casings and and figure out where um possibly they bought these
00:05:52
from or what what rough location so in late 1993 the Tas Task Force air was formed
00:06:02
they were to spearhead this serial killer investigation the task force was made up of more than 20 detectives an
00:06:11
analyst on top of this a large reward was offered to the public for information on what the Press were
00:06:18
calling at the time the Bango serial killings the profiles were made as we discussed and they were made public the
00:06:25
task force was established and now they're begging the public for help so where does that get you it gets you a
00:06:33
ton of info to sift through which is extremely difficult just to organize and catalog everything that's coming in the
00:06:43
task force one of their first jobs is to Simply organize all of this information
00:06:49
and then to find a constructive way to apply it to the investigation and as for the investigation hell just with 20
00:06:57
different task force members you have a lot of moving pieces and so some sort of
00:07:02
checks and balances is required you need to know for sure that so and so did speak to this suspect or this witness
00:07:12
and that the information was collected and appropriately cataloged because there is just so much of it some of the
00:07:19
focus is really going to be the gun angle right Captain we know that we have bullets that were found at the scene we
00:07:26
know that we have two different calibers we we're looking through gun licenses that's what police wanted to do they're
00:07:34
going to look through gun licenses to try to provide some leads in the way of who is their guy or who is their
00:07:43
Killers I've seen some numbers in this case and some were as big as that investigators may have been talking or
00:07:52
seeking to talk to over 2,000 per 2,000 persons just in relation to the gun angle
00:08:00
but with all of their hard work effort and Analysis they really were looking at over 200 possible good suspects not just
00:08:09
people that have a gun license right eventually taking that 200 possible suspects and breaking that down to about
00:08:18
30 some Persons of Interest without going through all 30 or so of them now remember guns may be how they're able to
00:08:29
the killer or killer so they amongst other strategies are going around to gun clubs and interviewing members at these
00:08:38
gun clubs at one such Club they were interviewing members and these members told investigators to talk to a man
00:08:46
named Alex Mt so Alex he had a strange story to tell he sat down and spoke with these investigators he said that one
00:08:56
night in April of 1992 now mind you this is Around The Disappearance of two of our victims yeah
00:09:04
he says that he and a friend were driving home that night from the gun club and as they neared a service road
00:09:11
to the Bango State Forest they passed two vehicles one I believe was a car and the other was a 4x4 in this
00:09:20
scenario he tells the investigators that he saw a woman a single woman in each one of those Vehicles right right and
00:09:30
also in the vehicle with them were a group of men the women he says were bound they were I don't I take that back
00:09:39
I don't know that he said that they were bound I know he said that they were gagged but his description of this
00:09:44
scenario is that the women likely they look to have been abducted they're with these men they don't want to be in the
00:09:51
car and he goes on to give very good detailed information regarding the men and what they look like as well well
00:10:00
he's unable to give any plate numbers regarding these vehicles police of course are going to find this extremely
00:10:06
interesting for any number of reasons really what they're going to do is they locate the man that he says he was
00:10:14
traveling with that night they speak with him the man verifies some portions of this story basically that yes I was
00:10:24
with Alex that night yes we went to the gun club we took that route home and I believe that yeah I did see two vehicles
00:10:35
that night he says nothing about the women being in the vehicles he says nothing about the men
00:10:41
being in the vehicles nor does he give any type of description of of anybody or anything that's going on never mind that
00:10:47
if if the gagging part didn't come up like I mean if you're driving home with your buddy and you see some girls quote
00:10:55
unquote gagged you'd think that would come up in conversation right right and if it comes up in conversation it's not
00:11:01
something that you're going to forget especially if you can remember being at the gun club that day and taking that
00:11:07
route home that night so that's that's what is is really truly a weird scenario because we have two victims that went
00:11:15
missing right around that time we have Alex Mallette who's saying that he saw two females in these vehicles that
00:11:23
looked like they were abducted yet here's the other thing too until police came looking for him he never bothered
00:11:30
to share this information with anybody he never took it to police he never said hey I saw something strange going on or
00:11:37
you know he didn't do this when he didn't do it that night so he didn't seem to be concerned of of these two
00:11:42
women he didn't do it when the bodies were found and as you just pointed out he very likely didn't even mention it to
00:11:50
the man sitting in the vehicle with him that night right because apparently given their statements they didn't see
00:11:56
the same things right so it seems like it's a half truth story yeah he may have in fact have seen two vehicles there
00:12:03
that night but is he making up what he saw inside of those Vehicles that's a sick thing for somebody to make up yeah
00:12:11
well you have to wonder One why would he be making it up or two if in fact that is what he saw why didn't he tell
00:12:19
anybody why did he choose not to tell anybody then there's another person uh police police are talking about uh this
00:12:28
is one of their Persons of Interest and this comes from a tipster that called in
00:12:33
regarding a man named Richard Mallette Richard told a coworker and this is according to the
00:12:41
coworker right this is alleged what he told them Richard said in regards to the backpack murders that there is a German
00:12:50
couple out there that they haven't found all of the bodies yet this is before the
00:12:56
German couple was in fact found mhm he tell someone else I know who killed the German couple other odd things and
00:13:04
comments that he was saying he told someone how easy it would be to abduct someone out in the area of the Bango
00:13:11
serial killings M he told someone that stabbing a woman or cutting a woman was just and forgive me Captain I've seen
00:13:19
this reported several different ways that he said that it it was like cutting a loaf of bread and then one of the
00:13:26
other sources say that he said cutting a woman was like cutting a banana so I'm I'm not sure which one he in fact used
00:13:34
or allegedly said but still some very odd strange statements coming from this man here I do want to point out a few
00:13:44
things about what it is that alleged that he had said right the first there is a German couple out there they
00:13:52
haven't found all of the bodies yet this may seem strange given just that one one
00:13:59
statement that and even in fact when you apply it with all the others that we went through but just that short little
00:14:06
statement does seem strange but we also need to keep in mind as we reported there were reports out there in June
00:14:14
that there was a missing German couple so that that's not like it was some top secret information that was public
00:14:21
information to anybody that read those papers hey there there's there's a German couple that is believed to be
00:14:27
missing since regarding that newspaper article it been over six months by that point and then on top of that when they
00:14:34
found the first two victims when they found the first two bodies what was the statement given by law enforcement at
00:14:41
the time we're going to find more bodies we expect to find more B so really when
00:14:46
you dissect his statement it's actually nothing that he could that anybody couldn't have come up with right right
00:14:52
and again this is big news and and they don't want you know hitchhikers or tourists going missing so is it just one
00:15:01
of those things where you go okay they're going to find more bodies well what about that missing couple that's
00:15:05
still missing mhm yeah I mean it's it's not that far of a stretch to get get to there the other thing too is pointing
00:15:14
out how easy he believed it would be to abduct somebody out in that area that specific area I don't find that to be
00:15:21
too incredibly of an odd statement well here's here's what's odd we have two individuals with the same last name both
00:15:29
seewhat somewhat telling like half truths right so what's that all about well I think the most the strangest
00:15:37
statement by Richard would be the one of I know who killed the German couple yes
00:15:43
the thing I would like to backtrack on which I couldn't find through all the digging it it just wasn't there if
00:15:50
anybody finds this or knows this information please put it on the blog but one thing I was very curious about
00:15:58
with the state of I know who killed the German couple was he say this before their
00:16:03
bodies were found right right right right right cuz I mean of course it you could see how he would believe that they
00:16:10
were were killed but but to to make a statement like that before the bodies were in fact found would be a big huge
00:16:17
red flag and as you said another red flag is that you have two individuals who share the same last name who in fact
00:16:24
are brothers aha aha it goes back to that profiling right right and that's the thing here we're
00:16:33
going to start to see some things regarding this profile and I think that you know not only just the profile
00:16:39
itself but once they're collecting the task force is collecting all this information that's coming in possible
00:16:46
leads possible evidence Clues names that are coming up time and time again throughout the course of their
00:16:53
investigation you you really want to go when okay when we need to talk to 2,000 people or maybe more than 2,000 people
00:17:00
let's create a list of people and go how many boxes do does each individual potentially check off right because we
00:17:08
have to prioritize who we're going to speak with we can't just have a pool of suspects being 2,000 people and then
00:17:15
they Whittle it down to what did we say 200 and then to 30 right but now on this
00:17:20
list of 30 it appears that we have two men who are in fact brothers and we do have them fitting some portions of the
00:17:31
profile itself you know just the simple statement of somebody saying you know what it would be easy to abduct people
00:17:39
out in that area that to me doesn't does not set off any alarm Bells as far as uh
00:17:46
suspecting this person of of being an abductor or a killer what it points out to me immediately is this person
00:17:52
obviously feels that he has a strong connection to that area to that that he's familiar and he has knowledge about
00:18:01
that area well that's one thing that was in the profile to be looking for we also
00:18:05
have a situation where the other man Richard Mallette he has a criminal record also in the profile one of the
00:18:14
things on his record involves a gun charge again as you pointed out back to the profile now there was also another
00:18:23
Mallette that is involved in this whole portion of the investigation Ivan Mallette all three of them are brothers
00:18:32
they're brothers from a very large family I think that there were 10 Brothers total and four sisters yeah 14
00:18:39
siblings total yeah so we're talking a huge family here now Ivan was in fact familiar to the task force this is
00:18:47
because he was called in on the tip hotline now the caller thought that he fit some aspects of the profile plus the
00:18:57
caller said that he drove a four-wheel drive and owned some guns right known to shoot guns has a four-wheeler also lives
00:19:06
in a rural area yeah and I'll tell you what even more interesting than all of that um this next stuff again comes from
00:19:15
the Sydney Morning Herold and the Herold really covered this case covered this story from top to
00:19:22
bottom covering it for years there is an article by stepen waro where we have a former senior Constable Paul Gordon now
00:19:32
anybody familiar with this case there there's some alarm bells that are going to go off because this Paul Gordon is a
00:19:40
complicated character in this story and we can get into that a little more but what's important here is some things
00:19:47
that we know that did in fact happen we just don't know exactly how they happened because they report they
00:19:55
were reported to the newspaper in a strange way right so according to one version of the story Paul Gordon was
00:20:05
working on a theory that Liverpool I guess this is an exit that is along the way from Sydney to Melbourne via the
00:20:12
Hume Highway he or somebody else came up with the theory that there are hundreds of
00:20:18
hitchhikers thumbing lifts South in this area and that maybe this is where the killer or killers were
00:20:27
getting their victim from using this Theory they decide to go back and they are checking through
00:20:34
police files for past crimes against Hitchhikers in that area what they find is a case from April of
00:20:45
1971 right so almost two decades before our victims start disappearing right in this case the offender or alleged
00:20:56
offender was a man named Ivan Mallette he was accused of assault rape and threatening to kill two female
00:21:03
Hitchhikers in April of 1971 so we have The Hitchhikers we have a pair of them mhm yeah and we have a similar type
00:21:12
crime although it does not end in Murder but the reason why this crime does not end in Murder the the two hitchhikers
00:21:19
they got away from this man right and this is basically because they they tricked him and they had to escape him
00:21:26
he didn't he didn't let them go nothing like that they had to escape and after reviewing the case personally
00:21:34
Captain I believe he very very likely would have killed both of them he in fact according to the two victims did
00:21:41
say at one point his intention was to do just that Mallette beat the charges though and if you want we can we can get
00:21:51
into that it's a little it's a bit of a difficult story and it's it's a bit of a
00:21:57
long one but in the end his his lawyer pulled some tricky [ __ ] and got him out
00:22:03
of those charges okay what do you mean tricky [ __ ] well the lawyer was able to prove
00:22:10
that the two women that he picked up were in fact lesbians okay and the lawyer was so well
00:22:19
all right yeah but okay here's the problem with that it's 1971 1972 when he points this out this
00:22:28
refuses the jury back then right and you see what I mean and it it's been an uphill battle for
00:22:34
anybody that has come forward with any allegations of sexual assault or rape it's been uphill battle so back then it
00:22:41
was like yeah you know uh yeah it's pathetic but yeah keep going well I will say I do want to say this real quick too
00:22:51
the the attorney that was representing Ivan Mallet at the time he is I I believe he's deceased now
00:23:00
um he was a homosexual man so in in a sense and I think well I shouldn't say I think I know because
00:23:08
interviews late in his life he says that he really regretted using that tactic um but that's the tactic that he
00:23:16
chose yeah he chose to use that strategy it was shameful but it worked at the time that is that that is the problem
00:23:24
with that profession because it's like you it's very important to have good uh defense attorneys but at the
00:23:33
same time it's and you don't want to assume that they're bad individuals because they help these awful people get
00:23:40
out of crimes well Mallette may have just been and I mean Ivan he's just super lucky right because
00:23:49
he was also facing charges and these were Hefty charges of armed robbery in fact these were robberies that he
00:23:57
committed with one of his other brothers that we've already named what ended up happening in that situation is those
00:24:05
charges I believe they were dropped because of the way that the they were investigated there was rumors of
00:24:14
misconduct on the on the part of the police and the investigators in those crimes and then we have this situation
00:24:22
where Ivan mlet picks up these two female hitchhikers and comes pretty close close to killing them and gets
00:24:29
away with it in court yeah which is crazy to me because it's you have two eyewitnesses you know what I mean like
00:24:39
it's not just he said she said it's He Said She Said She Said So yeah like you said a little bit of evil luck but in
00:24:48
then in the end in the 90s what's going to really stand out to the task force is
00:24:55
that even though he may have got away with with that crime back in the 70s this very much fits it's very similar to
00:25:04
what was going on in The Backpacker murders well right like if we look at the profile we have two victims we have
00:25:13
you know sexual intent I think we could say I agree or or some type of gratification from it right and then on
00:25:20
top of that you have these armed robberies that were committed with him and his brother and that fits the
00:25:28
profile you know at least a couple times with them thinking that these there could be two attackers and them being
00:25:35
related so the Mallette family they are now pretty much the prime target of this
00:25:44
investigation and if you really want to try to put it in order I think we're looking at a situation where we have
00:25:50
Ivan at the very top of that list followed by his brother Richard and Ivan just looks like I mean
00:25:58
he looks evil well and the other thing that's going to put Ivan and Richard above some of the other brothers in this
00:26:06
even Alex who we've already named those two were known to have been working in the area at the time of the
00:26:15
disappearances mhm so that puts them that at a much higher probability so they were looking into
00:26:23
these men from this family and the more that they looked the more that Ivan started to look better and better
00:26:31
and fit being their possible unsub so this becomes even more clear when police get a phone call from the
00:26:42
United Kingdom it's Paul onions on November 13th 1993 Paul called the authorities in The Backpacker murders
00:26:52
case he saw the case on the news and he immediately thought of the time when he was was attacked way back in
00:26:59
1990 police never made the connection between Paul's case and the seven unsolved murders remember when Paul
00:27:07
reported this from the outside looking in you may have thought you were just dealing with
00:27:13
an armed robbery so now we have a victim coming forward and saying I believe what happened to me is
00:27:21
connected to your unsolved murders eventually they get Paul out to the to Australia and they want to talk
00:27:31
with him face to face they want to show him some materials and they want to know
00:27:35
what he knows of his attack eventually he positively identifies Ivan Mallette as the man who was calling himself Bill
00:27:46
who offered him a ride and tried to take his life firing the gun at him as he was
00:27:51
running from him Joanne Barry the woman who was brave enough to stop her ve B and allow a complete stranger to get
00:28:01
inside the vehicle when others wouldn't even stop to help poor Paul she was able
00:28:07
to positively identify Ivan Mallette as the man that she said she saw that day with the
00:28:23
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freedom all right cheers mates Cheers Cheers Cheers Captain law enforcement they were
00:30:40
locking in on this Ivan Mallette they surveilled Ivan for weeks they tapped his phone and police located a vehicle that
00:30:50
he once owned this is the four-wheel drive vehicle that Paul onions says that this this man named Bill quote unquote
00:30:59
bill was driving when he picked him up and attacked him so they found this new owner they confirmed that it was in fact
00:31:07
a vehicle that was purchased from Ivan still inside the vehicle they located a 22 caliber bullet under the
00:31:17
driver's seat it matched bullets that were found at the murder scenes got him so this is
00:31:26
some this is some info here there's some difficulty with the investigation because of another brother and this
00:31:34
brother's name is in fact bill right so what becomes difficult with this case is
00:31:41
Ivan for whatever reason was registering vehicles in his brother's name for a good portion of his
00:31:52
life the other thing too why is he doing that I don't know if this was with his brother's permission or if he was just
00:31:59
doing this on his own right but surely if you are up to no good it is an advantage for you to be able to drive
00:32:08
vehicles but not have them necessarily in your name right so with all this information and a
00:32:17
lot of it being information coming from Paul onions it sounds like police are ready
00:32:24
to make an arrest and they're going to to arrest Ivan Mallette but remember all along they anticipated that their killer
00:32:33
should they be on to the right guy if the heat got cranked up too high for his liking if an arrest was expected he very
00:32:42
likely would want to do it on his own terms and go out in a blaze of glory yeah police knew how dangerous whoever
00:32:53
this man was they knew that who they were looking for is probably a weapons Enthusiast so they knew psycho though
00:33:01
yes this is a psycho so they knew what to expect if they in fact had their right guy so when they go to make the
00:33:11
arrest on Ivan Mallette they're going to be a little nervous in this situation but they're also going to bring
00:33:17
everything that you got right you bring the kitchen sink Ivan's house was surrounded by
00:33:23
about 50 armed officers most of them heavily armed officers phone calls were placed to the home the general strategy
00:33:33
here is Captain you want to try to get your guy to come outside you really want to avoid going in after him so on these
00:33:43
phone calls they're trying to explain to him why they want to talk to him why he
00:33:47
is being arrested that day and in a good strategy here for many reasons they basically tell them look you're you're
00:33:56
suspected in an armed robbery we need to talk to you about that and we have a warrant for your arrest in regards to
00:34:03
that that case notice that they are conveniently avoiding the seven unsolved murders when
00:34:11
talking to Ivan right Ivan didn't want to come outside he he did this kind of weird game of
00:34:19
like cat and mouse where at first he kind of said yeah I'll be out just give me a few minutes and then a lot of time
00:34:27
would go by and he still not come out this of course making the police more nervous and more nervous as it goes
00:34:33
along they would call him back he would try the same tactic I'm coming out but I
00:34:39
don't understand why you're here to talk to me I've not done anything wrong now he's playing the Innocence card right
00:34:44
this goes back and forth for a while until he he does eventually end up coming outside right so on May 22nd
00:34:53
1994 Ivan Mallette is arrested correct and we talked about the former Constable earlier who gave the story to Steve waro
00:35:06
and a story to the Sydney Morning heral um this is Constable Paul Gordon this is where Paul Gordon story
00:35:17
gets tricky and I've tried to sift through this and I can't really find out the the real details here but what we do
00:35:26
know is that Paul Gordon at some point spoke to the newspaper okay and in this time that he's talking to him initially
00:35:35
it seems like he not only takes credit for the theory brought forward about the hitchhikers and the location but he also
00:35:43
takes credit for finding the the previous case from 1971 that names Ivan Mallette as the
00:35:50
suspect and he tells this to the newspaper so he presents a story in the light where it's almost like I'm the guy
00:35:59
that cracked the case and in a lot of tellings of this story and this case it seems more so that maybe just as much as
00:36:07
that scenario but it also seems like the Paul onions the former victim the Survivor that came forward was just as
00:36:15
much that cracked this case right and so where Paul Gordon gets in trouble the the former Constable where he gets in
00:36:23
trouble there was an a an agreement amongst the task force and a and amongst the members that were the closest
00:36:31
involved in this investigation and in the arrest of Ivan Mallette that they were not to talk to the
00:36:38
newspapers Paul Gordon did so Paul Gordon was eventually let go from that task force that's why it gets
00:36:47
difficult to sift through his words and know what to believe and know not what to believe right right because we don't
00:36:54
know if he was let go because he talked to the paper or if he lied being the guy
00:37:00
that quote unquote cracked the case but that was something that went down now because Paul Gordon spoke to the
00:37:07
newspapers now a lot of their stuff is starting to become public that's why they didn't want anybody talking to the
00:37:13
newspapers that were involved in the task force it makes it harder to get a conviction yeah and it also makes it
00:37:19
tougher for the investigators to continue down the roads that they've already traveled down they've already
00:37:26
started down these roads on investigating Ivan mullette for seven unsolved murders they've only arrested
00:37:32
him for the armed robbery charge now now it shows their hand that this is what we actually want him for
00:37:40
this is what we actually think he's suspected of right and the fact that they're still not for sure if it's if if
00:37:47
it's just Ivan that's responsible or is it Ivan and one of his brothers that they've already talked to and so you
00:37:55
don't want to show all your hand because you don't want Ivan to be protecting one
00:37:59
of his brothers and you then you have another psychopath that's out on the loose well and you want to make sure
00:38:05
that you have your right guy and you want to make sure that you are building your case as such but now with their
00:38:12
cards kind of shown with their cards out there this is when the the lead member of the task force says we were kind of
00:38:21
forced at this point to actually start charging him with these unsolved murders now at the same time the whole thing
00:38:29
that's really going down and actually they they've been working their way through this there were searches
00:38:35
obviously of Ivan's home and of many of his family members homes as well and they were very smart they did these
00:38:44
searches basically all at the same time so as you pointed out we can't have the different Mallette family members
00:38:52
warning each other of what's going on if in fact more are involved yeah so now that they have Ivan in their sites
00:38:59
they're going to have to search their property they they live just outside the city yeah and as said they're going to
00:39:06
search some of his family members homes about the same time right well they find
00:39:12
some interesting things in Ivan's home most importantly they find a 22 rifle MH they find parts to another 22
00:39:23
rifle they find a pistol and they find one of those large Bowie knives now he he has said time and time again to the
00:39:34
investigators that he didn't own any weapons and of course they immediately find weapons inside his home they also
00:39:41
recovered a trove of items believed to belong to the killed hitchhikers these items included
00:39:48
clothing tents sleeping bags backpacks cooking and camping equipment and cameras this this is a lot of stuff and
00:39:58
some of this stuff they can't 100% say belong to a victim right but they can say I believe it was with one of the it
00:40:09
was with some of the um camping equipment yeah they found a tent and yeah no but what I mean by this is there
00:40:18
there was one of these items you couldn't purchase it in in Australia right you had to purchase it from where
00:40:25
one of the victims was from so the the probability that he would own something like this highly unlikely right and then
00:40:34
on top of that we have scenarios where there are items that do seem to in fact belong to the victims where you can make
00:40:42
a direct connection where there's more proof of such like the initials being stitched into one of the items right and
00:40:51
so this is not looking good for Ivan so they searched his mother's home as well and at least three of his brother's
00:41:01
homes as well so this would be Alex Richard and Bill I believe his father was dead his father had passed away wait
00:41:12
you know they would have searched at least four of the brothers because Walter his home was searched as well his
00:41:18
sister Ivan's sister is a bit tricky for me because look so not only is this a big family with a lot of brothers and
00:41:26
lot of moving pieces but at one time throughout their adult lives they were all a lot of them were moving back and
00:41:34
forth in and out of mom's home and so some of them lived together for a while under her her roof and I believe that
00:41:40
maybe even Ivan and his sister shared a home together at one time what the the the big problem is with this is that not
00:41:50
only do they find these these damning items inside Ivan's home they start finding other items that
00:41:59
belong to these victims in the homes of his relatives as well and again this is things like clothing tents backpacks
00:42:08
cookware things of that nature now some of these brothers homes they found guns lots of ammo and marijuana so at the
00:42:18
very least those Brothers can be arrested and charged with if they if they had illegal guns we know that the
00:42:24
drugs were illegal they were charges that were brought forth on that nature now yeah this family was known to one
00:42:31
own a bunch of guns but to be Avid Shooters you know they're like I said they lived out of out of the city and
00:42:37
this is a time where you don't have internet and cable and things like this so they were Avid you
00:42:44
know gun shooters well and a lot of the brothers had they were Rowdy let's say right A lot of them had criminal records
00:42:53
well there's there's 10 of them I mean if you grow up in a family just with one other sibling you're going to tend to
00:42:59
get in some uh arguments or fights or you know little tussles uh be especially if it's you know two boys cuz you got C
00:43:08
all those or commit armed robbery together like they did yeah but what I'm saying is there's there's 10 of them so
00:43:15
you just got this testosterone going and you know it it wasn't rumored I think it's pretty factual that these kids were
00:43:24
beat uh at least the boys were beat up pretty bad by their father uh consistently uh very abusive household
00:43:33
so when you have that going and that probably stems from anger and stems from a lack of resources and lack of money
00:43:41
and also you have 14 kids that you're trying to feed want to talk about stresses um you know when when you get
00:43:50
beat by your father you might then try to take that out on your brother well regardless of all these items that they
00:43:57
find throughout the different households M when this thing comes to trial Ivan's
00:44:03
going to be the only one facing trial and he's now being charged with the seven murders as well as the crimes
00:44:11
against Paul onions Ivan to his credit during the whole time that he's being investigated during the whole time of of
00:44:19
his interrogations and the questioning and the interviewing right and even the trial itself he's always stuck to his
00:44:26
guns he has regardless of what he's been accused of he's maintained his innocence
00:44:32
throughout now at trial not only did he maintain his innocence he in fact pointed the finger at a couple of his
00:44:40
brothers this would be Walter and Richard and his defense that was put forward basically was stating that the
00:44:51
crimes were not commit committed by Ivan they were either committed by one one or
00:44:56
both Richard and Walter right the interesting thing here too though is the crown okay so basically the the
00:45:04
prosecutors and whatnot they are saying during the course of this trial we do not have to prove whether Ivan acted
00:45:13
alone or not right we just are trying to prove that he was involved that he did it and they said that the evidence they
00:45:21
actually pointed this out which which is weird to me but at one point they even said something to
00:45:28
the fact that that the evidence somewhat strongly suggested that he may not have acted alone but
00:45:35
they were so sure that he was in fact involved he is regardless of who else could have been involved Ivan was
00:45:43
responsible for the crimes we are charging him with and this time they're going to get a guilty verdict yeah I
00:45:50
mean it was a difficult trial for all the reasons that we just pointed out but it was in fact July 27th 1996 a jury
00:45:58
found Ivan Mallette guilty of seven unsolved Backpacker murders he received seven life sentences for this without
00:46:06
the possibility of parole but our story doesn't end there does it Captain we got
00:46:12
we got some more stuff to get through because on his first day to the maand jail where he was going to be housed
00:46:22
Ivan was beat up by another inmate so there is your housewarming gift for you Mr Ivan welcome to prison yeah you get
00:46:31
get your ass kicked on day one you get [ __ ] up a year later Ivan and another inmate George savah they worked together
00:46:41
in an attempt to escape from prison however they were caught in this attempted Escape Plan and the next day
00:46:50
they find George dead in his cell now they move Ivan to another prison to a Maximum Security Prison uh at another
00:47:00
location there are some more prison Antics here uh Ivan swallowed razor blades and Staples in a metal chain oh
00:47:09
on one day he swallowed some ra the blade yeah and then in 2009 he cut off his little finger with a plastic knife
00:47:18
on purpose yeah yeah so this this is a just kind of a real dumbass plan here but so he he gets this this is actually
00:47:28
considered a privilege at the prison where he was housed mhm if you were under good behavior for x amount of
00:47:36
period at some point you are allowed to receive a a plastic knife like which you
00:47:41
would get at a picnic right a plastic knife to to use while eating your meals yeah he had received this privilege and
00:47:51
once he did so he decides to take a plastic knife and attempts to cut off his little finger to which he was
00:47:56
successful but his goal was to mail to put the finger in the mail put it in an envelope hand it off to a guard and
00:48:05
asked them to mail it well as the newspaper put it cutting off a finger is quite painful so once he got to that
00:48:14
part of the plan where the finger is now off he had trouble putting it in the envelope and getting it to the guard
00:48:23
basically his plan went sideways real quick because he didn't account for how much
00:48:27
pain he would be in uh this he was transferred to he's a psycho he was transferred to a hospital because of
00:48:36
this but they could not reattach the finger so it is no more uh he has on several occasions attempted
00:48:46
hunger strikes to get things that he wants to get his way the most famous of these hunger strikes uh lasted nine days
00:48:56
this was because he wanted a PlayStation in his cell the hunger strike ended and
00:49:01
I'm very happy to report that little Ivan did not get his PlayStation oh so sad one key thing with this case has
00:49:11
always been are there more victims yeah and if there are how many more well are there more victims I mean because like
00:49:21
you said he had the crimes a decade earlier that he didn't he he didn't get he got acquitted for MH so that just
00:49:30
makes you wonder how many missing people are there and how many missing people have not been reported missing because
00:49:37
they were foreigners well and we're also talking about from from the time that he
00:49:42
abducted those two women beat the charges and then to the time that he's finally arrested we have two decades
00:49:49
that went by right two decades that went by and the murders that he's convicted of they actually happened in just the
00:49:55
years leading up to his capture right so how long was he active for and if in fact he was going to kill those victims
00:50:05
back in 1971 was that his intention all along if he was active that entire time I mean we
00:50:11
know he shot at Paul onions so it appears that that murder was his intent there or at the very least was his
00:50:18
reaction to Paul trying to flee him now we know that Ivan was questioned back in
00:50:24
2004 this regarding The Disappearance of two Nurses Back In 1980 he was working in the area at the
00:50:32
time then two years later in 2006 Ivan was named by police as the main suspect in a double homicide in all it looks
00:50:41
like there may have been about 10 more cases that they you know they they they like him for it they think that he's a
00:50:49
good suspect in these 10 other cases and one of these cases dates all the way back to
00:50:56
1971 but we don't think he's going to confess to these yeah I I don't know I mean he's never he's never been one to
00:51:04
confess he's always maintained his innocence throughout even all this time in prison possible deathbed confession yeah
00:51:14
and the thing here though too is I I really wonder about a lot of these other cases because it would point
00:51:21
out to me a couple of things either he wasn't taking trophies from the earlier victims M or
00:51:29
he discarded of those trophies at some point it's just very difficult because I I think he's probably good for some more
00:51:38
I don't think he's good for all 10 or 12 of these depending on what list you look
00:51:42
at well we both agree that he's responsible for the attacks on the the the the lesbian couple oh yeah right so
00:51:51
we agree on that yeah I'm actually really shocked that even what ever you know regardless of the strategy I'm
00:51:57
shocked that any strategy worked in that case after reviewing it but I think you
00:52:01
said it best though I think it was because it was so um you know so many years ago that's why that Malarkey
00:52:11
worked but that being you know almost cop for that and then the arm robbery That Could
00:52:19
Have Been Enough To possibly scare this psycho away for a while mhm like you said do you like him for all these
00:52:29
crimes I don't know I think he would have would have been taking more items from the victims like you were saying
00:52:35
mhm yeah I I wonder in some of these cases I've seen what two of them that I've reviewed out of that list those two
00:52:44
almost feel to me like there is no real connection and look I get it there is no
00:52:51
real connection between Ivan and the ones that he is convicted of but in the others there seems to be more
00:52:59
of a scenario where he looks good for those he looks there is some connection he was in the area at the time he may
00:53:06
have been active at the time so on and so forth a couple of them you look like you wonder if they're just starting hey
00:53:13
well let's take a shot at it it's like throwing a dart at the board and hoping that you close a case off of off of
00:53:20
little to nothing right so in um 200 12 his nephew Matthew Mallette was convicted in court of murder because in
00:53:35
2010 he attacked a boy named David archelon So this poor kid David was struck over the head with a battle axe
00:53:48
it was a double-bladed battle axe and get this this attack took place in the bang State Forest the same place where
00:53:57
Ivan Mallette buried seven victims in the 9s so David was I don't know if you would call him a
00:54:06
friend but they knew each other Matthew and David knew each other and another guy Cohen kleene was friends with
00:54:14
Matthew Mallette as well the two 19-year-olds Matthew and Cohen they LED 17-year-old David this was on his
00:54:23
birthday to the state forest they got him to go along with them because they were promising him hey it's your
00:54:30
birthday we're going to party at the State Forest we got booze we got pot really the whole thing was a setup
00:54:36
because once they get there at some point Matthew starts chasing David around a car with the axe now the super
00:54:45
gross and disgusting thing in this case is the Cohen the Cohen Klein the other person
00:54:54
there Matthews friend right as Matthew is attacking David Cohen he recorded the whole thing on the
00:55:03
audio anyway on his mobile phone and both of these guys were convicted mlet got 43
00:55:12
years and then we have kleene got 30 years I'm sorry it might have been 32 my notes are a little difficult here but in
00:55:21
the Klein case he has a minimum sentence of 22 years that he's going to face for
00:55:27
that and the saddest part of it is this murder took about two minutes to commit the audio recording it recorded
00:55:37
the full two minutes and the I mean the judges heard it and and some of the people at trial heard
00:55:45
portions of this audio and it was very clear that this young man this boy David was he was basically tortured and
00:55:54
suffered very very badly the last 2 minutes of his life the the strangest thing about this
00:56:01
Matthew Mallette character the the the nephew who's now in prison and I don't know if there's a way to change this or
00:56:09
or the the exact stipulations of his sentencing this Matthew malette guy should never be allowed out of prison
00:56:18
yeah it's absolute worst I I I really think and I don't want to get get into this too much but I think you know cost
00:56:27
Effectiveness and all this stuff with the death penalty it doesn't work for some states but it should be this simple
00:56:33
you kill somebody uh you know uh you know first-degree murder you go away for Life yeah yeah
00:56:41
let's not get this is a long road to go down right right I mean a lot of time you know he he he tortured this guy we
00:56:49
have uh evidence of it and and he's he's going to Poss possibly get out one day and all he's going to do is he's chances
00:56:58
are now what we can hope for is that he will not be a model a citizen in prison and then he'll have to do do more time
00:57:06
but uh but yeah these these individuals they can't be helped well as Justice Matthews pointed out during the trial
00:57:14
and at the during the sentencing phase anyway was that Mallette showed no remorse and poses a huge serious threat
00:57:24
to the Community this basically was a coldblooded premeditated Thrill Kill mhm that this that this guy did and then on
00:57:33
top of that what's weird too is that is not his his last name by birth yes he's related to Ivan Mallette but he's like
00:57:44
the the great he's like a a a cousin or sorry a great nephew of him and he had a
00:57:52
different last name but changed it because it's mlet when he was 14 now I don't know if he was just going by the
00:57:59
last name of Mallette rather than officially having changed it but regardless I mean right you're psycho
00:58:06
you see where we're going with that now we talked about the case against Neville
00:58:12
Knight in the trailer and I'm betting some of you are wondering what does that have to do with this case we never
00:58:20
really gave you the outcome of the story of the 16y old boy who was picked up by
00:58:26
the cab driver the explosion that the cab driver heard the boy fired a gun through the back seat shooting Neville
00:58:35
in the back okay and the boy rather than helping Neville he just opened up the door observed the damage he wanted to
00:58:44
see the Damage Done and he ran off into the darkness mhm we do have a man that was convicted of that crime
00:58:55
crime this was a guy that confessed shortly after this was a few months after the fact we have Allan
00:59:04
Dylan who confessed to shooting Neville Knight in the back in that cab he was sentenced to 5 years for the shooting
00:59:14
the attack left Neville Knight a paraplegic and he didn't live an extremely long life he did live many
00:59:24
years after that and he did a lot of good for other people he became an advocate for uh wounded
00:59:31
individuals so he did a lot of good in his life but where this story kind of circles back around is in
00:59:39
2015 Ivan's brother Boris Mallette he said that Ivan told him he was the one that shot Neville Knight back in 1962 in
00:59:50
that cab that he shot the cab driver observed served him and ran off now where we get the confession from is many
00:59:59
years later Alan Dylan the man who served 5 years for this attack he said the way it was presented to him during
01:00:09
the interviews with police was that they suspected his younger brother Allan Dylan's younger brother of committing
01:00:17
the crime Allan Dylan took it upon himself to give them a false confession to spare his brother the jail sentence
01:00:26
right and unfortunately all these years later when this story finally comes to light in
01:00:34
2015 Neville Knight is no longer around to to confirm these suspicions but if in fact boris's
01:00:44
statements regarding his brother saying I was the one that shot that cab driver 19 in
01:00:49
1962 you can see the progression and it also goes to what you can imagine Ivan was doing to his victims out there in
01:00:59
the State Forest as he travel as he chased them down remember choice of weapon killer choice of victim killer he
01:01:07
got them out there he chose his weapons he chose his attack and it's almost you see the progression that started at the
01:01:15
age of 16 when he sat in the back of that cab and fired the gun into the seat and into the back of Neville Knight we
01:01:23
do have a somewhat of an update I know it's our first time covering this but Ivan has been in the news quite a
01:01:31
bit lately and this is because in May of this year may of 2019 Iva mlet was it's been reported
01:01:39
anyway that he was diagnosed with terminal esophageal cancer and I know I probably didn't say that in the best way
01:01:48
but it's basically cancer of the esophagus this from my understanding a a friend of mine his father um suffered
01:01:59
this same type of cancer and from what I've been told this is not a look they're all bad cancers but this one is
01:02:07
particularly bad where the the survival rate is not very high at allh so as you pointed out earlier
01:02:15
Captain you wonder given that this man probably has days left if in fact we will see some some
01:02:24
type of deathbed confession maybe it's maybe it's not all the information that's out there maybe
01:02:32
it doesn't you know but maybe it clears some things up we have other family members of his that have been accused by
01:02:39
the public and and suspicions upon them throughout the years Ivan did say through when he was in prison many years
01:02:48
after he was convicted that his brothers are not guilty of anything although he still claims to be innocent of the
01:02:54
murders themselves right but that I I want to break down that scenario a little bit better because I think him
01:03:01
trying to put the blame on his brothers I think that eventually came back to his
01:03:06
mother and he was kind of favored by his mother Ivan was So eventually at some point the rumor is or or what people
01:03:14
speculate is that he told his mother hey they're not responsible and actually confess to her all of his crimes that's
01:03:24
what they I believe yeah yeah I I went down that road and I um but it's not like she has rode him down and uh did a
01:03:33
press conference about it or anything so the way that I understand that is that the one of the lead investigators I
01:03:41
believe he was the man in charge of the task force he he wrote a book and His Name Escapes me at the moment but he
01:03:48
wrote a book about the case and actually there there are several books out there
01:03:52
regarding this case yes the way that I understand the story is he that investigator eventually heard this
01:04:01
statement through one of the brothers that the mother the mother apparently told one of the brothers Ivan
01:04:09
confessed to me and then she passed away so like everything else with this story
01:04:15
it's not a clean it's not a clean ending it's okay the story comes from one of the other
01:04:24
Brothers we know that other brothers were well in the other claim suspects or or you know at least suspicion from the
01:04:31
public yeah because some of the items that they found uh that they believe Ivan had were actually found in his
01:04:39
brother's possession MH um but now if you follow that story back it was items that he took from his family his home
01:04:48
when he moved so it wasn't like it wasn't like these items just happened to be at his house these items came from
01:04:58
the family's house um but I I think what's also really interesting is the his defense lawyer that which defended
01:05:08
him you know decades earlier in in the trial of the mar I think was his last name and before he passed away he was
01:05:18
saying that he believed um that none of the brothers actually helped Ivan but it
01:05:23
was actually Ivan's sister that helped him commit these crimes yeah I saw that the the other thing that's weird here
01:05:32
though while we talk about the brothers um Walter Mallette so the one of the most damning
01:05:40
pieces of evidence against Ivan during the course of his trial remember we stated that there were some Firearms
01:05:47
found in Ivan's home but actually the the thing that was worse for him was the peace I said there were some gun parts
01:05:55
that were found in his home MH it was one of the parts of of a 22 rifle that was found that was a piece of evidence
01:06:03
that was so very strong against Ivan because it was found concealed in his home like hidden like purposely if you
01:06:11
saw the thing you knew like somebody was trying to hide this and not just hide it
01:06:15
for today tomorrow or next week they didn't want anybody to find it ever so when they found this piece and they ran
01:06:23
their ballistics on it of course they had to you know reattach it to other pieces of of guns and things like that
01:06:31
but what they determined after firing bullets through that part was that the markings on those bullets matched
01:06:38
markings on bullets at multiple crime scenes at multiple murder scenes basically knowing that that part of that
01:06:47
gun was involved in the murder of those victims that was found in Ivan's home in
01:06:53
his possession what's interesting is out of all these brothers we say he's got four sisters
01:07:00
and and nine brothers big family out of the whole family Ian had a a a fairly sophisticated security system and he was
01:07:11
known to be extremely protective and secure of his home and we can only imagine the the many reasons why MH out
01:07:20
of all of his family Walter was the only one that had access 24/7 to his home so
01:07:30
many have wandered throughout the years this piece of evidence that was really the strongest piece of evidence against
01:07:37
Ivan Walter would have had the ability to place it in the home yeah there's a lot
01:07:43
of stuff with this family and and we could probably spend another hour talking about some of the speculation
01:07:49
but just to go over it really quickly at some point people believe that Ivan was
01:07:54
having affairs with his brother's wives um there's also then rumors that um Ivan
01:08:03
was having um a sexual relationship with one of his sisters uh supposedly the whole family knew about it uh supposedly
01:08:12
multiple Brothers had uh sexual relationships with that um sister you know like I said there was
01:08:21
reports of physical abuse from the father possible physical abuse from the mother
01:08:27
um and so then you wonder if he was having an affair with one of his brother's wives is that enough to you
01:08:36
know plant evidence you know to get him convicted of a crime he didn't commit uh there's just so many things
01:08:45
strange about this family and and so many things you could dive in um the speculation of this family well Ian is
01:08:54
often referred to as Australia's most notorious and Infamous serial killer and even though we have the convictions we
01:09:04
are left here today believing we still do not have all the answers and how about a little
01:09:13
recommended reading before we wrap things up for this week this week we're going to recommend
01:09:19
BTK the true story behind the 30-year hunt for the notorious witch all serial killer by the great John Douglas this of
01:09:28
course this recommendation in the spirit of Mind Hunter season 2 which we have been discussing and will be discussing
01:09:37
on our other great show off the Record so until next week everybody out there be good be kind and don't
01:09:52
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