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[music] Heat. Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always, ladies and gentlemen,
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the producer of the soontobe hit TV series, Vigilante Clown: Torture Confessions. He is the captain. Thank
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you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good [music] to torture
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you. Thanks for telling a friend and thanks for the fivestar reviews. [music] I like your drink.
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Tonight we are drinking Devil's Triangle by Florida Beer Company in beautiful Cape Canaveral, Florida. Garage grade
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four out of five bottle caps. Check out this IPA. Golden amber in color with hints of citrus and grapefruit with a
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strong pine bitterness finish. And Devil's Triangle was brought to us by these fine garage folks. We have Mike
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and Sean from Hill View, Kentucky. Like your jib. Next, we have Caroline who wants to say happy birthday to her
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friends Greta and Baltimore and Katie in Brooklyn. Sweet. >> And also Caroline >> and also in Brooklyn, thanks to
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Philippa. And we have some offenders in Parts Unknown. Make sure that you wear your sandals when you're taking a
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shower. >> All right, let's open up the garage, Captain, and speak to the fine citizens
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of Parts Unknown for Hooking It Up this week. We have Alexandra, Jane, Vanessa, and Deborah.
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>> Mhm. Like your gym. But make sure But make sure you wear your sandals when you're taking a [music] shower.
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>> It's a rule, people. Big shout out to Heather and Prosper, Texas. And up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, we have Leah. Boo.
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>> And let's say hi to Sarah down in Florida. [music] >> And Marie up in Canada. Love our
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Canadians, right? >> Mhm. >> Cheers, mates. >> And last but not least, we have Rob in
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Jonesboro, Arkansas, one of our hard drinking buddies. I want to be the first one to wish him a happy St. Patrick's
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Day 2018. >> He will know what that means. And I want to wish all of you a happy Cinco de
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Mayo. I'm going to celebrate this Friday by eating nine tacos. Breaking my old record.
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And always, thanks for listening. Whether you're listening at work or at your commute or whatever, or maybe
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you're just trying to get away from your significant other for a minute cuz they're driving you a little crazy.
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Thanks for joining us in the garage. Make sure you follow us on Snapchat, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all that
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stuff. True crime garage. That's enough of the business. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's
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talk some true crime. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> The record reflect that the defendant is
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present along with counsel for the defendant. Both sides ready to proceed. It has been
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brought to my attention that the jury has reached the verdict. State >> state's ready to proceed. John,
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>> defense, >> defense is ready. >> To those in the gallery, please do not express any signs of approval or
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disapproval upon the reading of the verdict. Let's return to jury. State recognized presence of the jury.
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>> We do, your honor. >> And does the defense? >> Yes, sir. We do. Good afternoon, ladies
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and gentlemen of the jury. Have you reached the verdict? >> Would you hand the verdict form to the
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court deputy, please? >> Would a defendant rise along with counsel? >> Madame clerk, you may publish the
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verdicts. Judge >> in the circuit court for the ninth judicial circuit in in four Orange County, Florida, state of
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Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony as to case number 2008 CF156-0. As to the charge of first-degree murder,
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verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all dated at Orlando, Orange County,
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Florida on this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed for person. As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict is to
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count two. We the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all did it at Orlando, Orange County, Florida,
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this fifth day of July, 2011. Signed for person. As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child. Verdict is to
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count three. We the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County,
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Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed for person. As to the charge of providing false
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information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four. We the jury find the defendant guilty of
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providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all dated Orlando,
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Orange County, Florida this 5th day of July 2011 signed for person. As to the charge of providing false information to
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law enforcement officer verdict count five. We the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to
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a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida. This
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5th day of July, 2011. Signed for person as to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement
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officer. Verdict test to count six. We the jury find the defendant not guil I'm sorry. We the jury find the defendant
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guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in
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the indictment. So say we all date Orlando, Orange County, Florida this 5th day of July, 2011. signed for person
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as to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer. Verdict is to count seven. We
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the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer is charged in the
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indictment. So say we all dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida. This 5th day of
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July 2011 signed for person. >> Madame clerk, you may poll the jury. >> [music] >> July 5th, 2011. Only after 10 hours and
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40 minutes of deliberation, the jury acquits Casey Anthony of first-degree murder, aggravated manslaughter, and
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aggravated child abuse, but convicts her of all four misdemeanor charges of giving false information to law
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enforcement officers. So, the jury didn't hold Casey Anthony responsible for Kayle's death at all in any manner.
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Two days later, Judge Perry sentences Casey Anthony to one year in county jail and $1,000 in fines for each of the four
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misdemeanor counts of providing false information to law enforcement officers. The judge orders all sentences to run
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consecutive to each other with credit for time served based on 3 years credit for time served plus additional credit
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for good behavior. Her release date is set for July 17th, 2011. Now, Judge Perry announces that he will not release
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the juror's names for at least 7 days, saying that some people have disagreed with their verdict and would like to
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take something out on them. >> Mhm. Like maybe like a sharp kick to the crotch. >> Well, we would learn later that several
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of the jurors would say that they had received death threats uh after the trial took place. August 10th, 2011, the
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Florida Department of Child and Family Services releases a report concluding that Casey Anthony failed to protect
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Kaye and that Casey's actions or lack of actions resulted in the death of the child.
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>> So, I mean, yeah, but what does that matter? Is this after the fact? >> It actually really legally it doesn't
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matter at all. It has very little legal relevance. >> Well, the FBI did a pretty interesting
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test you were talking about. >> Yeah. And this was something that we failed to get to yesterday. There was so
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much jam-packed in that show. We went through so much information that this kind of just got swept under, well, not
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swept under the rug, lost in the shuffle, we should say. But there was an interesting test that the FBI conducted.
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And this was a paternity test and they tested George and Lee, Casey's father and brother. And the thing here is the
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first thought that the FBI had [snorts] was that if she was in fact sexually abused by either of these people that
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one of them could have been the father of Kaye. >> So they do the paternity test.
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>> There was some more thought going into this than just that though. And I found
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this to be pretty interesting regarding Lee, her brother. >> The suspicion was that the name Kaye was
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a combination of Casey and Lee. that she knew that her brother was the father and
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that she was, you know, naming the child after the both of them. >> Well, that'd be really sick.
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>> Yes. And and both of those tests that were negative. George is not the father.
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Lee is not the father of Kaye. Uh we've we've heard who Casey says is the is the
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father. A reminder, she says that it was either a man that had been killed in a vehicle accident.
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>> Uh so we can't confirm if he's the actual father. The other thing that she had stated to her lawyers and to her
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defense team and I believe her family as well is that at a a party that she may have gotten drunk and the child was
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conceived that night. Now, I think there's a few different versions of that story depending on who she's talking to.
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>> Casey's stories are better known as the troll tales. Well, and one of those versions, at least one of those, is that
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she was at this party and somebody may have put something in her drink and had sex with her against her will and that's
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how the the child was conceived, >> right? Or the guy had to put something in his drink just to get through the
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process. >> The old one for you, two for me. On July 13th, 2011, Texas Equaarch, which
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assisted in the search for Kaye, sues Casey Anthony for the cost of the search. Now, we'll cycle back to this in
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a little bit because there's quite a bit more story there. Uh, but following our
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timeline, on July 17th, 2011, Casey Anthony is released from jail at 12:10 a.m. >> And she doesn't initially go home to her
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parents house. She never goes back there, >> but she can't after the the allegations
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that she threw out at trial, >> right? And and well, and then the hurt. I I look I I think she knew based on
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what her mom and dad were saying that they felt that there was some guilt there and she just didn't want to deal
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with them anymore. So it's now I'm out of jail to start a new life and she goes to live with a defense attorney. She's
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there for a little bit and then she goes to this kind of like church retreat woman's thing and she gets all religious
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but it's because all that stuff is because she's broke. >> Right. Right. And she's she's about to
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get more broke because Judge Belvin Perry rules that Casey Anthony must pay for the cost of the sheriff's search for
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Kaye Anthony. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, when you say, "Uh, my daughter's been missing for 31 days
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and people start searching for your daughter, uh, you were lying, >> right?" Right. Well, yeah. You come out
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at trial and say, "Well, she wasn't missing." and she's sued by the uh well, not sued, but she's ruled that she has
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to pay the sheriff's department over $200,000. Now, we talked about her being sued by Texas Equaarch, and I'm not sure
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that we have discussed Texas Equaarch before on this show. We >> Yeah, we talked about them.
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>> I I thought so. We we may have because they're they specialize in searching for
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missing persons, sometimes organizing the searches, sometimes assisting, but always working with law enforcement. and
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they have done a lot of really good work over the years, thankfully locating many
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of the adults and children that they have been looking for over the years and finding a lot of them alive.
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>> A big we like your jib to all those volunteers. >> Tim Miller is Equaarch's director and
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founder and he founded the search and rescue organization in 2000. This was after the abduction and murder of his
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daughter Laura. Laura is one of the victims in the three decades old Texas killing fields murders. Texas Equaarch
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moved into the area to assist for the search of Kaylee Anthony. This was November 8th and November 9th of 2008,
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just a little over a month before her body was found. And this is an expensive operation to come in there and look for
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somebody. And now that we get to trial and she states, "Well, the girl was never missing. I just let all these
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people spend all this money looking for her anyway." >> Uh he wants and his company wants some
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of that money back. And rightfully so. >> Yeah, [ __ ] better have my money. >> Pay me what you owe me. Now, Casey would
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also be sued by Zenida Gonzalez. Remember, she there is a real person out there named Zenida Gonzalez, and she
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lives in Florida. She doesn't know anything about Casey Anthony or Kaye Anthony. She never babysat, maybe even a
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day in her life. Who knows, right? Uh, but because this name was smeared all over the news by Casey stating that Zany
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the nanny took her daughter, well, she's going to come after her in court as well
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and sue her for defamation. Now, this case ends up just being kind of thrown out and doesn't really go anywhere. But
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Casey's still going to have to face the judge's ruling of paying the sheriff's department for the searches as well as
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the lawsuit by Texas Equaarch. And this is going to lead Casey Anthony into bankruptcy. She's going to file for
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bankruptcy and she won't have to pay either of them back, >> right? But during the bankruptcy trial
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that we're going to have a bunch of depositions that come up that some red flags and really she's kind of out of
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the limelight at this point. >> Mhm. >> But this is a case that I think the media keeps going back to and trying to
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dig up more stuff. It's kind of very similar to me like um John Ramsay, >> right? always going back to it, always
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trying to dig up some little other nugget. >> Well, and of course they've got to they
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being the media has to flock to this bankruptcy hearing because well, there's players that were involved in the
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investigation and they want to hear what maybe what nuggets might fall out of those trees that didn't fall out during
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the original trial now that the uh the smoke is cleared, let's say. >> Uh and one of those individuals is a man
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by the name of Dominic Casey. Now, he uh according to ID, and I mean ID, the the
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channel, the the TV channel, um they they were their words are that he worked for the defense team during the trial.
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And during the course of this, uh he basically stated what that Casey was paying Joseé Bayz for her defense with
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sexual favors. >> The troll tax. There was supposed to be a TV appearance. >> Yeah. press conference
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>> and she didn't want to go. >> She didn't want to do it. So last minute and she was going to get paid for it.
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>> Now the reason why it was set up by Bayz was because she needed to pay for his
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services. >> So I'll set this thing up. We're going to get a little bit of money for it that
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goes towards your payment of what you owe me. >> Well, and your defense, too, because
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you're going to have to bring in experts that you will have to pay for their time
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in their expert opinions. >> Yeah. the overall service of what Bayz is bringing to you.
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>> So when he sets that up for you and you cancel, >> then that's one makes him look bad. I
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think it kind of makes you look bad and then there's no money coming in. >> So this this uh private investigators
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claimed that Bayz said to her over the phone, "Well, now you owe me three blowjob."
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>> Now to me, the devil's always in the detail. If he just stated, "You owe me blowjob," or, "You owe me whatever," it
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it doesn't hold as much weight as when somebody says, "You owe me three blowjobs." That's a very more detailed
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statement. The other claims that he made makes that is when he went to their offices that he saw Casey running
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Adobias's office naked. Yeah. He also claims that he spoke to Casey about this and she stated to him that well she was
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broke and she had to pay him for the defense somehow. >> Um here's here's a quick thing here
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though captain I want to point out. >> Even though the ID network states very clearly that Dominic Casey worked for
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the defense during the trial. First of all, that's an very incorrect statement. Okay, Dominic Casey did work for the
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defense. He at no time during the course of the trial worked for the defense. Okay, let's be very clear about that.
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What took place, the relationship between Joseé Bayz and Dominic Casey is this. Dominic Casey is a private
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investigator. He is a he's a well-known private investigator. He's been doing it
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for many years. Well, when this case came up, he presented himself to Jose Bayz and he said, "You know what? I
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would like to work on the defense team as an investigator. He's offering to work for Joseé Bayz. Now, Joseé Bayz is
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telling Dominic Casey at the time, look, first of all, this defense does not have
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a lot of money. >> We we can't afford a a private investigator of your level, >> right?
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>> So, Dominic Casey says, "Well, I will do this pro bono and work for the defense."
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And he does so for a while, not very long, because at some point Bayz and him are not getting along. And so Bayz
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decides to release Dominic Casey of working for the defense. Now, what happens is Dominic Casey, he so badly
00:19:00
wants to be involved in this case, what does he do? He then goes to Casey Anony's parents, George and George and
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Cindy, and says, "You know what? >> I know you guys have an attorney, and it's not Joseé Bayas. They had their own
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attorney, uh, Conway, and he goes to them and says, "You should probably have your own private investigators as well."
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Because Kaye had not been found by this point. And so he says, "I will work for George and Cindy Anthony pro bono as
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your private investigator." Now, how do we know that this is true other than Jose Bayas saying this? Well, we know
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from the court transcripts. Remember when Cindy was called to testify and they wanted to know if she in fact sent
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her private investigators to search the area where Kaylee Anthony was found one month before she was found and she
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disputed that. Well, what private investigators were we talking about? We were talking about Dominic Casey, which
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the court transcripts describe him as working for Cindy and George Anthony at that time. This is November before the
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body is found. I don't know how long that he worked for Bayz, but he didn't work for Bayz
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anytime close to the trial starting. He didn't work for her or for him before the body was found. Um, so let's be
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clear about that. It makes it it sounds a little more it sounds a little more like a legit claim when they state that
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he worked for the defense during the course of the trial. >> Right. Right. And the other claim that
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is kind of weird to me is he's saying that from the get-go, we were never looking for a lot for Kaye to be alive.
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We always just assume that she was dead and we were looking for the dead body. Meanwhile, that's what we're looking
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for, but we're telling everybody else that we're going to find her. Yeah, I get that. And and I see what you're
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getting at because that presents itself as as the defense knew in the beginning that we to we are to be looking for not
00:21:01
a missing girl but a dead girl. And the problem I have with that, Captain, I I don't I don't dispute that statement. I
00:21:08
believe I believe he was out there looking for a body, >> not a missing person. And I think that
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maybe he might have even been sent out by the defense to do so. But he's also a private investigator. he's going to
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conduct his own investigation within what the confines of what he's told to do by the defense. What I mean by that
00:21:28
and the reason why I don't dispute it and I don't think this is any should be anything negative towards the defense
00:21:34
because Jose Bayz says very early in this case when when he took this thing on he said that immediately he thought
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you know what I'm going to defend this woman that is involved in a missing child case that could very soon turn
00:21:49
into a homicide case. Right? >> He stated that from the get-go. And second of all, he also said that early
00:21:56
in the defense, the first several weeks that he knew Casey Anthony, he could tell that she was not being honest with
00:22:03
him because she didn't trust him. And so he was not believing anything that she said at the time. So yes, they might
00:22:10
have been looking for a missing girl. They were probably also looking for for a body. Now, the thing I want to throw
00:22:16
in here though too is that Dominic Casey also claims that he is the one that came
00:22:23
up with the theory and presented it to Joseé Bayz that Kaye drowned in the family swimming pool.
00:22:30
>> Mhm. >> He says he came up with that theory. Why? Because he said that he noticed
00:22:34
from pictures of the Anthony home that the ladder was still up in the pool. Now, I'll tell you what. I'm not going
00:22:42
to credit Dominic Casey with the other statements because a lot of those other statements I don't believe,
00:22:48
>> but I do believe that he probably found the picture with the ladder still up in
00:22:52
the pool. I do believe maybe he presented that to Jose Bayz as a possible defense.
00:22:58
>> But here, but here again, don't damn me for looking for a body when you're out
00:23:04
there and at the same time saying, "Well, maybe she drowned in the pool." Sounds to me like he's looking for a
00:23:09
body as well. Furthermore, before she was found, this took place in November. Those Dominic Casey was sent by the
00:23:18
Anthony parents, by Casey Anony's parents to look for a body in the same area where the body was found. Now, the
00:23:26
other thing here is we have a situation where this guy is a bit scorned, right? He was not only released by Joseé Bayz,
00:23:33
but during the course of the Casey Anthony trial, it's presented in trial that look, you have these so-called very
00:23:40
competent private investigators out searching the very area where the body was found and they couldn't find it, you
00:23:47
know. So, it kind of discredits the whole private investigator. It kind of discredits him in his profession. And I
00:23:54
think he felt a little burned by that. I think that I think he might have had some
00:24:00
>> some thoughts on some things and decided to present them as possible things that
00:24:04
he thought he heard or thought that he saw. Um I I I just >> I look >> where I have a problem with it is I
00:24:11
don't see >> I just don't see this happening. You know what I mean? I I feel like
00:24:16
>> here here's here's where the breakdown begins. You have this private investigator and when he first comes
00:24:22
out, all these statements that they're making initially, oh well, she paid for her defense team and sex. It almost
00:24:27
seems like this private investigator is a champion for Kaye, right? That's what this is all about. Oh, this guy's a good
00:24:35
guy. But then where maybe you don't believe those statements that, you know, she was uh given [ __ ] to pay for her
00:24:43
defense. If you don't believe those statements, then don't believe the next statements.
00:24:48
Because the next statements were like, "Guess what? I'm the one that came up with the defense that did such a good
00:24:54
job to get this crazy psychopath off." >> And that is not champion for Kaye at all.
00:25:02
>> Right. >> So, I think I I buy the statements. I buy the the the ones that champion for
00:25:08
Kaye and the ones that don't champion for Kaye. And I buy what he's saying, you know. And I think the evidence of
00:25:16
that is you have to be pretty low of an individual. You have to be a pretty shitty ass human being to get up there
00:25:24
and opening statements say, "Hey, guess what? You know where she learned to lie?
00:25:30
You know where she learned to lie? From her father molesting her. The same father that raised your daughter. The
00:25:38
same father that housed you. The same father that fed you. The same father that fed you plus your daughter plus
00:25:46
every time that you didn't pay for a ticket. Who paid for it? Who who paid for your car that did everything for you
00:25:54
and you throw this person under the bus. And I don't know who came up with the idea, but Bayz had to say it. He's the
00:26:01
one that made the claims. And other than the first initial cross-examination of George Anthony, they didn't bring this
00:26:08
up because it was a bunch of [ __ ] and that that's my opinion, but you have to be a pretty low human being to bring
00:26:17
this up in trial and throw that in the face of a guy that's dealing with the death of his granddaughter. And I think
00:26:25
so that's the evidence that I have. I can see that on tape. You're making those claims. I I don't
00:26:32
like you. And then this guy's making these claims just backing up that you might be a piece of [ __ ]
00:26:39
>> I get what you're saying. you know that that Bayz he presents this information
00:26:42
that that George is a sexual abuser of his daughter possibly hinting around maybe even the granddaughter as well. I
00:26:50
get that that's you're stating that he is saying some low down dirty stuff that he's not going to back up with any
00:26:56
evidence that makes him a slime ball. Therefore, it's not too big of a leap to believe that he would that he would
00:27:04
cross the line with with Casey uh behind closed doors. I I get what you're saying. As far as the trial goes and as
00:27:12
far as those accusations go, um my thoughts on that, it's it's tough. It's tough. Did he play dirty? I think Bayz
00:27:20
absolutely played a little dirty. Did he hit below the belt? I think so. Um the issue you have there though is he does
00:27:29
have a duty to his client to look out for her best interest and no one else is. And if she comes up with this story
00:27:37
and says, "You know what? This is what happened and this is why it happened." He does have to present that at trial.
00:27:44
>> We'll get right back to this after this quick beer break. [music] All right, we're back. Yeah, and we have
00:28:03
a lot of interesting theories to get to in this case now that the [clears throat] the smoke is cleared,
00:28:08
the verdict is in, Casey Anthony has disappeared off into the night. And what we're left with is wondering what truly
00:28:16
did happen here. And recently, we have learned about some very important theories. And those would be the parents
00:28:23
of Casey Anthony, Cindy, and George. Mhm. >> Now, Cindy has a theory, and I would say
00:28:29
it's probably, it doesn't sound to be spoton, definitely not spot on with what the
00:28:36
defense would state and what the defense would claim, but it's very similar in the sense that case that Cindy Anthony
00:28:43
believes that when when she left for work that day on June 16th that at some point Kaye drowned in the pool,
00:28:53
>> right? and that Casey found her in the pool and panicked and that Kaye was beyond the point of of bringing her back
00:29:01
of resuscitation, >> right? >> And that she being a young mother uh in a traumatic situation, she panicked and
00:29:10
she handled it very poorly. That she decided to hide the body for whatever reason and almost kind of pretend like
00:29:18
nothing happened. And one of the key points that people have to understand is that she eliminates George from the
00:29:25
equation, >> right? >> U one of the things that we kind of talked about is it's odd to us. Uh I
00:29:32
think it's odd to you as well, right? Um I got a mouse. [clears throat] >> I don't know what you're saying yet, so
00:29:37
I can't agree. >> I don't know yet. Um it's odd that they're still together. That because of
00:29:43
what they went through and it's not that it's odd, but it's kind of against all odds, right? that they're still
00:29:49
together. Uh, but she eliminates him from the equation in her theory. >> Right. And you know what? I tell you
00:29:55
what, I do want to throw something out in Cindy's defense. >> I I I got curious and I looked something
00:30:01
up the other day. And between the years of 1999 and 2010, nearly 14,000 Americans aged 19 and under drowned uh
00:30:12
during those years. Right >> now during that time period 40% of those people were ages 1 to 4 years old and
00:30:20
half of those people drown in pools. So you're talking about like 200 kids. You know this is where I get to to put on
00:30:27
display my poor math for everybody as I'm trying to do it in my head right now. You're supposed to show your work
00:30:32
so you know that you're right, but we don't have time to do that. So approximately over 200 kids between the
00:30:37
ages of 1 and four, which Kaye certainly would have fallen between those ages drown in the the United States each year
00:30:46
in a pool. >> Yeah. >> Um >> which is tragic, >> of course. Of course. And but it but it
00:30:51
kind of goes to the defense of Cindy's theory. >> And we normally recommend a bunch of
00:30:56
different true crime docs. I wasn't in love with the version of Discovery IDs, but I thought there was a few valid
00:31:04
interesting points in that one being of the parents theories. >> George's theory I think is very
00:31:11
interesting. >> Yes. Yes. And and like we said, it's it's quite different from Cindy's and
00:31:17
from the defense's theory as well. Um George does not believe that Kaye drowned in the pool. Um he basically
00:31:25
states that he thinks that CA that Casey might have been giving the little girl something to u knock her out uh to you
00:31:33
know Xanax any form of you know different forms of drugs to kind of put her under from time to time.
00:31:40
>> Yeah. Basically when they were talking to the DJ her boyfriend's roommates they
00:31:45
kind of discovered this whole thought of well one of the things that they were calling Xanax was Xany.
00:31:52
>> Mhm. And so when it became Xany the nanny, like you just kind of put two and two together.
00:31:58
>> So George believes that he's that Casey's been medicating uh Kaye to to put her out from time to time and
00:32:06
probably doing this for quite some time leading up to the little girl's death and that he believes that she
00:32:13
accidentally overdid it that day, right? >> And she panicked and had to get rid of
00:32:19
the body. And he says looking back on it, hindsight that there would be a lot of times that Kaye would sleep, you
00:32:24
know, sometimes 10 to 15 hours sometimes >> and sometimes that she'd wake up and
00:32:30
she'd be very groggy or that he saw dark, you know, rings around the eyes or dark spots around the eyes uh that he he
00:32:38
states that you wouldn't see or expect to see in a child of that age. So why would the two parents have such
00:32:44
different theories is what I immediately ask myself. And I think the only thing I
00:32:50
can come up with is that George, he left the house that day after Cindy did. He went [clears throat] to work after she
00:32:58
did. And he states that he saw Casey and Kaye leave the home together >> around 12 12:50 that afternoon. And
00:33:09
that's why I think their theories are so different that he knows in his heart that he saw the two of them leave that
00:33:16
day. He left for work and then he never saw his granddaughter again. And I think
00:33:20
that that that ultimately is the biggest difference. >> Well, I maybe that and I think the other
00:33:26
thing that's a big difference is I think through the history of things, he wasn't
00:33:32
he was getting tired of enabling Casey. >> Mhm. And I think I think especially when
00:33:38
you throw him under the bus and and your defense makes claims that you're sexually abused by your father. I think
00:33:45
at that point it's just I'm done. You know, >> my my granddaughter's done. I don't want
00:33:50
to live anymore. And then on top of this, I have to go through all that. >> I'm just done with this. I think he's
00:33:57
he's more able to try to see the truth than than Cindy is. Can I take you through my thoughts and my opinions on
00:34:05
the case? And >> yeah, the whole world's waiting. The whole garage is waiting here,
00:34:08
>> holding their breaths. Uh, so don't hold back. >> I'm going to I'm going to kind of go
00:34:13
through my thoughts on this case and what I believe to have happened and the trial itself kind of all at the same
00:34:19
time, but you know, starting off a little bit with the trial. Um, when the verdict first came down, I was as
00:34:25
shocked as anyone. Um, I ultimately believed that she was guilty. Um, and then, you know, I got to be full
00:34:33
confession. I only half paid attention to the trial at the time of the trial. It wasn't until we start started
00:34:40
researching this case that I really dove in deep. And the thing is, when I was half paying attention to it, I believed
00:34:46
her to be guilty from the time they marched her into the courtroom until the time they left. And then then when they
00:34:52
made the accusations against George, I thought you couldn't you couldn't get any more
00:34:59
low than than what had already took place and now you're dragging the rest of your family down with you. And so I
00:35:06
was as shocked as anyone. But when I looked into this thing a lot more, I was not shocked uh because of a few
00:35:14
different things. Uh first off, uh focus groups. Now, we know that in the OJ case
00:35:21
that the defense team used a focus group to kind of decide of what what people with what backgrounds do we want on this
00:35:29
jury. What jurors do we think will will like OJ? What jurors do we think will not like law enforcement, not like the
00:35:38
prosecution? And let's stack our jury with these people. Well, in this case, we had in Casey Anony's case, we had a
00:35:46
focus group. We had Jose Bayz and he worked with uh 2020 or 48 hours or one of those TV shows. They approached him
00:35:54
and they wanted to do a story on the case. This was before it went to trial and their thoughts was they wanted to
00:36:01
get the general public's reaction as to what they had heard so far about the case and whether they thought that Casey
00:36:08
Anthony was guilty or not. >> Right. Well, when this all went down, he was able to sit behind mirrored glass
00:36:14
and watch them interview these people and hear their responses to the different questions. He was able to pick
00:36:21
up on what concerns did these people have. And the smart thing that I think happened here was that the TV play the
00:36:29
TV show, whichever one it was, decided to kind of gather up all these people from Orlando, Florida. Well, there was
00:36:37
there would be no city in the rest of the United States that already pegged her as more guilty than Orlando,
00:36:43
Florida. So, he had this room full of people that believed her to be guilty. And he could figure out what was
00:36:51
important to them. What did they need to hear in the course of the trial to give
00:36:55
a not-uilty verdict. >> He learned that they didn't care so much about forensic evidence. that the the
00:37:02
people that they interviewed were more concerned with what was the cause of death and two the searches on the
00:37:09
computer at the Anthony home, >> right? >> And I think he used that to his advantage. The second thing here about
00:37:16
the defense and the trial was that the defense had two secret weapons that the prosecution and the public didn't even
00:37:24
know that the defense had on their side. >> Mhm. And those two things were George
00:37:30
and Cindy Anthony because the jury and the public saw these two grandparents as victims. And then when they put them on
00:37:38
the stand and they they pulled back the curtain, then we saw that they weren't telling the truth about certain things
00:37:45
as well. >> So now we have people that go from being victims to being liars to being people
00:37:51
that we cannot believe and we cannot trust. And that was a secret weapon for the defense. something that the
00:37:57
prosecution would have never seen coming. The thing here is Cindy the the some of the the lies on the stand.
00:38:06
>> She's almost coming to the defense of her daughter. >> Well, yeah. To save her daughter's life.
00:38:12
>> And there were some there's some weird weird things that I found almost strange
00:38:17
coincidences about some of those lies. Mhm. >> And one of them being is when she talked
00:38:23
about the search on the family computer, how she was the one that looked up chloroform, but she did it on accident
00:38:30
because she was actually looking up chlorophyll, >> right? >> And it came up chloroform. Well, why was
00:38:35
she look why would she bother looking up chlorophyll? Well, she had this bamboo root growing in her backyard that we
00:38:41
that we needed to get rid of or the dogs were eating bamboo leaves and we needed
00:38:46
to get rid of make sure that the dogs weren't going to get sick from this. And what was another lie that we saw that
00:38:52
Casey did during this the course of this whole missing thing? She went and borrowed a shovel from the neighbor to
00:38:58
remove a bamboo route from the backyard. Right. To me, that that made me wonder,
00:39:04
was that Cindy's way of kind of wink wink, nod nod, tip of the cap to her daughter who's watching her testify,
00:39:12
stating, "You know what? I'm going to get your back. I'm going to lie for you." And and almost queuing her to cue
00:39:19
the defense team, say, "Don't worry. My mom's got this. You don't have to you don't have to worry about this part of
00:39:25
the trial. She's she's covered this base." Well, but we also know that they had several conversations with each
00:39:31
other. >> Mhm. >> Bayz and Cindy. So, what what conversations took place? And when the
00:39:38
death penalty is on the table, I'm not going to put it past any parent to lie. And like I said, I physically get ill um
00:39:49
from from saying a lie. I don't know if if you know, one of my stepboys, you know, were on trial for I don't know
00:39:58
what I'd do. >> Well, the the other thing here, Captain, that worked very well for the def for
00:40:04
the defense and I think really threw the jurors off on what was going on at the trial was George Anony's reaction to the
00:40:12
allegations of sexual abuse against his daughter. The thing here is >> the situation is this, and the jurors
00:40:20
would not have known this in advance, but George and Cindy knew in advance that Jose Bayz was going to throw George
00:40:28
under the bus and then back the bus up and run him over again, >> right? >> They knew that. And they were told, you
00:40:34
know what, you're going to be in court that day when it happens and you need to stay calm. You need to stay stoic. You
00:40:42
just need to you just need to sit there and be and let it trickle off of you like rain, man. And what I think what I
00:40:49
think the jury saw was that no reaction from George because most people would have would if if those were allegations
00:40:59
against me and I was sitting in trial, I would have I would have jumped out of my
00:41:03
chair, man. You would have had to pull me and peel me off of the roof off of the ceiling. I would have been The
00:41:08
ceiling is the roofing. I would have been I would have been livid. I would have been li and he
00:41:14
wasn't. And but he was instructed not to be so. >> Right. Right. >> And the jury didn't know that. And and
00:41:20
this is where I have a problem with some of our court proceedings. You know, we state that if you are a witness, you are
00:41:29
not to be in the audience of the trial. >> But because they were the grandparents,
00:41:35
they were grant they were granted the privilege of being in that courtroom. I think what happened was that affected
00:41:43
justice for their granddaughter. Now, had you had you given them the opportunity to not be there, I don't
00:41:50
think they I I think they would have insisted on being there. >> I absolutely do.
00:41:54
>> Right. But they you know, their lies and and the stuff that the lies that they told on the
00:42:01
stand and the lies they told to so many people affected justice. Well, and I think that they would have stayed given
00:42:08
the, you know, if they were given the choice, which they were, but I don't think the choice should have been there,
00:42:13
first of all. I think they should not have been in the courtroom, but given the choice, I think they would have
00:42:18
stayed no matter what because it came off to me and and it's probably this way for most people. I don't know. I can't
00:42:26
speak for everybody, but what I saw was parents that wanted the truth as long as
00:42:32
it didn't give their daughter the death penalty, >> right? >> And again, we discussed it. Uh I don't
00:42:38
think that the state should have sought the death penalty. I think we might have
00:42:43
seen an ultimately a different outcome just if we wouldn't have sought the death penalty in this case.
00:42:48
Well, yeah. We we all hope the troll dies and burns in hell, but um it probably wasn't the smartest move.
00:43:00
>> Now, as far as what happened on that day, um I I think and I believe that and
00:43:09
this is probably worse than what most people believe. >> I I believe it was I actually believe it
00:43:15
was a planned murder. I I think that Casey thought about taking Kayle's life for months and at least days or even
00:43:23
weeks before March, the month of March, when she searched for chloroform on that
00:43:29
computer, >> right? Uh Kaylee died June 16th, almost three months after the search on the
00:43:35
family computer, when she couldn't wait any longer to free herself of the burden
00:43:42
of her daughter and the burden of her own parents that she chose to live with. Then long after she searched for
00:43:50
chloroform on the family computer, well, she then searched Googled foolproof suffocation on the family computer
00:43:59
because Casey knew if she tried and attempted but failed, not only would the little girl live, but she would tell her
00:44:07
grandparents what her mother had done. And not only that, but Casey would have had to look Kaye in the eyes knowing
00:44:14
what she had done. So she couldn't screw it up. Okay? >> And just like she worked so hard for two
00:44:21
years to maintain a lie and hide from her parents and hide from everyone else the fact that she did not have a job.
00:44:29
>> She studied long and thought hard how to kill that little girl. And so she took
00:44:37
the chloroform and knocked Kaye out. Then she took the duct tape and placed it over Kayle's mouth and nose. And the
00:44:46
chloroform served two purposes. One, the little girl didn't have to struggle as she suffocated and died. And two,
00:44:55
because Casey is such a selfish person, this is probably the main reason for the
00:45:01
chloroform, so that Casey would not have to struggle with Kaye when she was putting the duct tape on her. And so
00:45:08
Casey wouldn't have to hear or see her daughter struggling as she dies. So that Casey could put the tape on her face and
00:45:18
go into the other room as Kaye dies. And while she was waiting, Casey checks her
00:45:25
Facebook and her MySpace accounts. And while she's logged in, she changed both of her passwords to Timer 55 because I
00:45:34
believe timer 55 was a real thing. A very real thing. But it wasn't something that involved a fake nanny or a
00:45:41
kidnapping of Kaye. No. Timer 55 was a countdown. the countdown from the 55 days from the day she killed Kaye to the
00:45:51
day that she knew that she could no longer hide the missing dead baby from her grandparents because they would be
00:45:59
it would be the baby's third birthday and the grandparents would demand to see Kaye and so Casey now a free woman free
00:46:09
from her daughter which she considered to be a ball in chain and free from the watch and the rule of her parents.
00:46:16
>> She had 55 days to live it up. >> Wow. It's uh it's getting hot in the hot tub. Uh so you think it's just because
00:46:27
that Kaye was a burden? >> Oh, you mean the why? Well, I think the why is a lot harder than the how in this
00:46:35
case. Um I think the burden was part of it. Uh, I also obviously think that she didn't want to be with her parents
00:46:42
anymore. >> And I think she thought that Kaye was some kind of anchor keeping her to her
00:46:48
parents. Um, which the sad thing here is I really believe if she wanted to tap out that her parents would have taken
00:46:57
that baby for her >> and she could have she could have left. I firmly believe that that would have
00:47:03
been the case. Uh, I think for me definitely the how is a and why is two different things. Um,
00:47:11
>> part of me also wonders if, you know, it seems like there was a lot of >> a lot of butting heads, a lot of
00:47:19
battling between Cindy and Casey. Part of me wonders if she wanted to punish Cindy in in some way as well. For me, I
00:47:29
think the why that there's so many reasons that she thought that she should do this. And second of all, um I don't
00:47:38
think she's clinically crazy. I think she's criminally crazy. And I think trying to rationale with with crazy is
00:47:46
not nothing that we can do. There's we we can't come up with the reasons why she would do this.
00:47:52
>> Yeah. Well, I think she's a a sociopath. >> Mhm. >> Probably. And I think the I actually
00:48:00
think the why is pretty easy. Um, I don't think she ever wanted a kid. I think she felt pressured
00:48:08
to do so. She I think when people, you know, she came up with the lie, well, this guy was the
00:48:16
father and then he died several years later. And I think I don't know if she was
00:48:23
always a liar. I think she developed into this. And I think the more and more she had to be faced with reality that
00:48:31
she was just a loser. and she was just trying to get guys attentions or whatever and I was drunk at a party and
00:48:40
I really don't know who the father is so therefore I do not want to keep the baby
00:48:44
and then I'm going to make the up this fictitious story about this guy is the father but he died.
00:48:50
We know that's a lie. >> Mhm. And then you get engaged to a guy that you said was the father
00:48:57
and you you cut off that engagement. And the reason why was because she claimed that you love my daughter more than you
00:49:06
love me. >> Mhm. >> And then we see it again with the parents. The parents love the granddaughter more
00:49:15
than they loved you. Then we see it again with the new boyfriend. You start bringing around your daughter in the
00:49:23
beginning and the roommate claims and other people claimed everybody liked Kaye. Everybody
00:49:32
thought she was so smart. And then all of a sudden she's not coming around anymore. And I think the guy that she
00:49:40
was seeing was probably giving the daughter some attention like a normal human would.
00:49:47
And she couldn't deal with that. She she needed the attention and this individual that she made her daughter
00:49:56
always stole that limelight from her. >> Mhm. >> Because at the end of the day, Casey was
00:50:03
and will always be a piece of [ __ ] loser. M >> and I think that was the main motivation
00:50:12
was, you know, you know, everybody cares about this person more than me. And I think there's
00:50:20
more evidence of that in the the tapes, hours and hours of the prison footage where she's saying, "But what about me?
00:50:30
What about me?" >> Right? And I think part of Casey wanted to say, "I killed her and she's gone. Let's make
00:50:40
this about me." And I I I'm believe in your theory. Uh the what George Anthony says I I buy most of
00:50:53
it and I believe that she one of my big frustrating questions was before the actual murder
00:51:02
when you're drugging. I don't think this was the first time she ever drugged her
00:51:06
with something but I believe that Zany the nanny was giving your daughter drugs to make her sleep. And I think sometimes
00:51:14
she was sleeping at the grandparents house. And I think sometimes that poor little girl was sleeping in the back of
00:51:20
a car, maybe even the trunk of a car. And I So that search that day of strangulation,
00:51:33
there's no doubt in my mind that it was not an accident. It wasn't I just gave her too much and she died.
00:51:41
>> Mhm. You know, George saw her that night. I think she she she said, "Look, I'm not going
00:51:48
to keep doing this. I'm not going to keep drugging her. I'm just going to get rid of her together as a problem." So, I
00:51:54
think me and your um theories are pretty similar on this one. I like your thoughts on that. That that that at one
00:52:02
time in Casey Anony's life, she was the nucleus of her world and then when Kaye came along, well, there was a new
00:52:10
centerpiece of the world and it wasn't her anymore and it was the centerpiece of her world and everyone that existed
00:52:16
within Casey's world, >> right? >> And she couldn't handle that, >> right? And the where we differ is on the
00:52:24
why she got off. >> Mhm. >> And I believe what the prosecution says. Somebody that was close to this case
00:52:30
knew the evidence. All this evidence was out in the public's eyes. >> Mhm. >> And I think they had a bunch of
00:52:36
individuals. The only individuals that they could get on this case on this trial were individuals that were
00:52:43
indecisive going in, >> right? For to fill the jury pool, >> right? which makes a lot of sense cuz
00:52:48
you have to it has to be fair. But if but when all the information is pretty much out there in the open and you're
00:52:55
going in indecisive, just hearing the same story with maybe a few extra details added in here or there
00:53:04
is not going to change your mind. I think they went in indecisive and they left indecisive. Mhm.
00:53:11
>> And I think these little tiny things of them going, "Well, we didn't know where
00:53:16
the murder took place or you couldn't tell me exactly what happened." You know, she's lucky that Kaye wasn't found
00:53:27
sooner because I think a couple key pieces of forensic evidence would have, you know,
00:53:34
put her in the electric chair. >> Oh, yeah. 100%. And the worst thing about all this is that this little girl
00:53:41
doesn't get to grow up. Kaylee doesn't get to grow up and become something and contribute to the world. Um, you know,
00:53:49
cuz you can't pick your parents. >> And it's sad. And I feel for the the Anthony family, everybody that was
00:53:58
involved. I know sometimes it makes it seem like we're throwing certain people under the bus, but I feel for them
00:54:05
overall. and uh you know then but then Casey comes out uh recently and says, "Well, here I'm going to do an interview
00:54:15
and I'm actually going to tell you I don't know what happened. I'm not even going to come up with another lie
00:54:21
because everything I come up with the is not the truth." And then the troll wants
00:54:28
to say, "Oh, by the way, I sleep fine at night." Well, that's because you're a sociopath. And just because a handful of
00:54:37
people that were indecisive and couldn't make up their mind said that you're not
00:54:41
guilty, I think in the public's eyes, the public got it right. >> Yes. And we would all sleep better at
00:54:47
night if we would have gotten a guilty verdict. >> And all I can say is I can't I can't
00:54:51
stand this troll no more. Troll trial is over. >> Thank God. How about some recommended
00:54:58
reading, Captain? >> Yes, sir. This week we are recommending Dangerous Behavior by Nancy Bush. Some
00:55:04
couples are too good to be true. One look and it's clear they're perfect together. It's in the way they touch,
00:55:10
talk, and kiss. They share the same interest, the same twisted passions. They do everything together, even kill.
00:55:18
Uncover the deadly secrets hiding behind perfection in Dangerous Behavior, the latest high suspense thriller by New
00:55:24
York Times best-selling author Nancy Bush. Dangerous Behavior is available now everywhere. books are sold. And for
00:55:30
more information, visit kensingtonbooks.com or nancybush.net. Thank you guys so much for letting us be
00:55:37
a part of your lives every week. Thanks for telling a friend. Thanks for giving us five star reviews. They really help
00:55:43
us in the rankings on iTunes. Uh thanks so much. I'll be shipping out those shirts really soon. And uh cheers
00:55:51
everybody. Yeah. And may the fourth be with you all. Happy Cinco deio. We'll see you next week here in the garage.
00:55:57
And until then, be good. Be kind and don't litter. [music] >> [music]