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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and I say turkey for the girls and turkey for the boys and here's a guy whose favorite
00:01:53
kind of pants are corduroy here's the captain I really did like corduroy pants in high school it's good to be seen and
00:02:00
it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend you know what would be great with
00:02:11
Thanksgiving dinner a little shot of whiskey with a refreshing lemon shandy Chaser that's right baby today we are
00:02:19
still sipping on Shady spot by our good friends over at susah Brewing Company ABV 4.5% garage grade 4 and a quarter
00:02:29
bottle caps out of five and let's start off with a big huge thank you to Porsche
00:02:35
and Parts Unknown a big cheers to Amela and Boise Idaho next we have a nice contribution to this week's beer fund
00:02:43
from Frank and Estelle cat stanza from Dell boka Vista retirement community in Los
00:02:50
Angeles cat stanza cat stanza and a big shout out to Allison and Ledgewood New Jersey and here's a double cheers to J
00:03:00
and MJ at center caps direct they are out in NAA nowhere which I believe is just one County over from Parts Unknown
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so cheers to Jen and MJ and cheers to everyone who contributed to this week's garage fridge Phil up beerun thank you
00:03:17
guys so much for supporting the show this year big things happening as this is our last
00:03:25
show big things are happening cuz we're we're quitting no just joking big things
00:03:30
happening in 2021 and I hope 20 I hope everybody made it through 2020 and that is enough of the business
00:03:40
all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music]
00:03:58
crime [Music] We are continuing our discussion with John Douglas retired FBI special agent
00:04:08
John Douglas you know him from the Behavioral Science unit you may know him from the wonderful show mind Hunter
00:04:15
picking up where we left off we were discussing one of my favorite books law and disorder and in particular the West
00:04:22
Memphis 3 case Mr Douglas when you met Mark buers there was a dramatic contrast to your meeting with Terry Hobs at first
00:04:31
Mark buers was off-put and not very welcoming to your conversation but he very quickly warmed up to you and then
00:04:38
became very much an open book whereas Terry Hobbs put on the facade of being welcoming and interested in talking to
00:04:46
you however as the conversation went along he became aggressive and became dodgy to your questions he want yeah he
00:04:55
very much so he a word got out that you know that that the he wanted to get have
00:05:01
somebody uh get rid of me uh and uh contract have me me killed uh but buyers you're exactly right I when I sat on
00:05:11
that porch of his hot as heck down there sweating and and he got angry as hell and his wife was there and uh initially
00:05:22
I started talking I was on the porch like an hour or so then finally I was invited into the house and I spent hour
00:05:29
hours on hours you know you know with him and just assessing him and I mean I mean he's not the most uh uh stable
00:05:39
person uh at that certainly but he he he didn't kill he didn't kill his you know
00:05:46
his his child a different feel too that I had when I spoke when I spoke to Terry
00:05:53
Hobs and uh initially spoke with him at a shopping Center trying to get gain his
00:05:59
Trust and then when I started gain information on him and he got really pissed off at me when I we were able to
00:06:05
track down uh years earlier uh how he uh broke into a house a neighbor's house and uh as she was taking a shower and he
00:06:15
tried to molest her try to molest this woman he thought that record was purged and it wasn't available and so he had
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that he also shot his brother his brother-in-law and he was also extremely violent to his to his children his son
00:06:28
and his young son and daughter and to his you know to his uh his wife uh his his wife is a believer that uh that he
00:06:36
is responsible for that crime but no one's going to really you know you know do it no one's really working it uh as
00:06:42
far as they're concerned it's Sals they don't have to pay they don't have to pay
00:06:46
any money uh to uh you know to uh Daman eckel and Jesse and Jason Baldwin uh any
00:06:55
state money uh because they had the pl the AL Alfred plea uh and uh so to this day there they're sex offenders these
00:07:05
these three I I did a presentation with Amanda Knox and Jesse Miss Kelly about a
00:07:11
year and a half ago up in uh up in New York and uh you can see we just they took a chunk out of their lives it's
00:07:18
like they're it's like they're they're behind developed mentally emotionally because
00:07:25
of the time that would they spent a period of time in their lives in uh in prison particularly uh uh
00:07:33
Damian and and it was the same too with Amanda it's the same same thing speaking
00:07:39
of interviewing parents of victims and also parents that may be considered suspects you were directly involved in
00:07:46
the still unsolved homicide of six-year-old John Benet Ramsay for those who are yet to read the cases that haunt
00:07:53
us can you explain how you became involved in the case yeah I was in um I happened to be in Utah at the time
00:08:01
speaking at a university when I got a call from an investigator who's working on a defense team I didn't know who he
00:08:06
was and uh asked me that if I would like to participate in in the investigation and I and uh I told a colleague of mine
00:08:17
who used to work for me in in the unit I I accepted it and and I said uh this family is guilty you know in the back of
00:08:25
my mind I'm thinking that you know they're guilty because what I was reading in the papers what was being
00:08:29
presented on on television so I I go over and I meet the uh the attorneys at in in Denver and U an old mansion they
00:08:39
have as a uh as an office and inside of what would be the living room there a is
00:08:43
an enclosed ENC casement of a like a fiberglass room within the room and go in there so I'm thinking in the back of
00:08:51
my mind what are these guys going to do they're going to they're going to like offer me money or something they're
00:08:55
going to pay me I'm going to give them a rash of crap man walk right out on them
00:09:00
but I got in there and and I sat down and and they said John we don't know we really don't know we don't know just so
00:09:09
we don't think they did it uh but we we'd like you to take a look what we have can we present to you what what we
00:09:16
have and I said yeah he says but you know uh and they are going to pay me they're going to pay me but to pay
00:09:24
people think I was became a millionaire $1,500 I spent a lot of time I test if IED out there and everything uh and
00:09:31
because once I realized I'm I was not working for I was working for victims I wasn't working for offenders I was
00:09:38
working for victims of a violent crime who had been go who are now in the process of being
00:09:42
revictimized uh by being accused of killing the child but once I saw how how she was how she was murdered and the
00:09:49
things that was done to her that was wasn't all made made uh public uh and and uh parents kill believe me we have had
00:09:59
plenty of cases parents killed but not like this not like this not in this uh with this family this this type of
00:10:08
family you know either uh they don't kill like like this so I did the analysis I I met with the the family uh
00:10:18
and uh went uh first thing I did I went to the house and kind of re reenacted reconstructed things to see where they
00:10:26
were uh their bedroom was was their bedroom was up like an attic that was made into a master bedroom and the
00:10:31
children are on the next floor down and you can't hear anything with the Air Conditioning Heating units going you
00:10:36
really can't hear anything if anyone was down below you uh there uh but I looked
00:10:42
at when I look at a case like that okay you're looking at then I'm looking at pre- offense Behavior post- offense
00:10:49
Behavior what's going on in their lives you know and I didn't see anything in pre- offense behavior that would that
00:10:57
was out of the ordinary unusual it's Chris time they're going to charoy Michigan for the holidays and I think
00:11:02
they're going to work their way down to Disney Disney World uh and I don't see anything there uh now we perpetrate the
00:11:10
crime okay the crime has been perpetrated let's take a look at that and then I saw where the
00:11:17
investigators asked uh John and a neighbor Fleet wood to take a look around see if anything's out of the
00:11:24
ordinary take a look downstairs in this basement so they they go down there us when a parent kills what we found over
00:11:31
the years that the parent the the parent who did the killing it won't be the one
00:11:35
to find the body you'll get somebody else the person with them or if it's searching in the yard or something with
00:11:41
a or a search party they may they are not going to be the one to find the child in this situation here Fleet white
00:11:49
goes down John goes into this room checks it's a it's a wine seller but there's no wine they don't even drink
00:11:56
and there he finds uh uh uh his daughter oh my God my baby he he shouts out and uh she has tape over her mouth her hands
00:12:06
are over her head uh uh tied uh together uh he doesn't know it yet but she is gaded uh and uh he then picks her up
00:12:18
carries her upstairs lays her down in the eventually in the I guess it's in the the living room bunch of people are
00:12:24
up there everything's contaminated uh uh and uh the trying to bring her back to life rubbing her body that's in riger
00:12:33
and uh there's a little bruise on her on her forehead so she has a bruise on her
00:12:39
forehead she uh has been GED they can't even see the G she's been gaded and a piece of the the paintbrush
00:12:46
is used to to for as a handle to Gat her with a rope that in this this nylon rope that
00:12:54
they never found where this rope was that Ramsey didn't have it they find any other pieces of it uh they find wood
00:13:02
fibers from uh from a uh from the same paint brush in a vaginal vaginal area she's been penetrated with uh believe
00:13:13
now with that with that stick that's how that that uh you know got there uh when
00:13:18
they they start the autopsy and they remove the skull or the the skin on the skull uh surprisingly they find that the
00:13:28
skull has been uh cracked open like a like a coconut like 8 8 and 1/2 in in length but why is there just a little
00:13:37
red slight red mark on her forehead and my gosh to break your skull you'd think there'd be some kind of EMA to' be
00:13:45
swelling and blood and uh well why is because the she was dead or on her last breath when when uh the person
00:13:55
responsible wasn't satisfied enough uh with uh with the uh uh with the death itself so he he does her in with it
00:14:06
wasn't necessary for the to kill she's already you know dead from from the uh the garat uh and so uh and then the
00:14:15
letter the other thing the letter right the famous two and a half page letter and the FBI was against me police hated
00:14:22
me around the country and and you know never saw a two and 1 half page letter and you that's right they're right about
00:14:29
that however when would the letter have been written is the question you mean to
00:14:34
tell me that after the the rain tell me the ramies have been murdered now you're
00:14:39
going to write a two and 1 half Page Letter uh uh this threatening letter asking for money and the money coincides
00:14:48
roughly to what a bonus that John Ramsey have but you you going to be pulling in
00:14:53
into this letter different different verses that are coming right out of movies out out of movies like Ransom uh
00:15:00
and uh and you could have the presence of mind to you know to do something like that after after uh the crime no yeah no
00:15:10
you're you're not you're not going to have that that kind of presence of mind so I just saw so many different
00:15:16
different things and you know the bureau they were angry you know you know like I
00:15:21
I may be you know I like when I saw Alex Hunter talking before the public we know
00:15:26
you're out there we know there is more than one of you I know I knew that he was coached by without anyone telling me
00:15:33
I mean I I invented the stuff that that he was being told by by the Agents of of
00:15:40
what to say but I'm not telling I'm not still telling the the the defense what they're doing here what what you know
00:15:47
what their tactics are I'm not doing it I would have loved to been you know been
00:15:52
able to solve that case if it was them to come up and get a a confession out of them but that was not that was you know
00:15:59
not the case and and it was it was a broken man I I've met J several times uh and uh a a broken a Broken Man uh py
00:16:11
Ramsay's stage she was in remission cancer returned she died everyone was waiting for a dying declaration there
00:16:17
was no dying declaration she didn't kill her kill her daughter John is s remarried CBS comes out with a a TV show
00:16:26
with the F so-called FBI some former agents expert experts in quotes and and uh forensic experts and and they and
00:16:36
they come up with this Theory more than a theory but an accusation that that that uh Burke Ramsey is responsible for
00:16:46
the uh you the death I mean I was I was watching that I'm think holy marel you can't say something like that I mean
00:16:55
here Burke is you he's I'm not going to say where he lives but I come across him
00:17:01
over the the years I mean he he did not uh hit his sister accidentally or whatever on on purpose in fact if if the
00:17:15
parents knew that they never would allowed him to talk to the police alone without even the parents the parents in
00:17:23
the presence of of Burke uh so that's another one of these cases is where you know they they what they did what they
00:17:31
did Nick is they and you see this sometimes on cases you you let they let a theory drive an investigation and they
00:17:39
let certain evidence that supports the theory in and they disallow some evidence that doesn't fit the theory out
00:17:46
you know so so they let that theory you know drive it not being driven by evidence of any kind or uh forensic or
00:17:54
uh evidence or whatever uh eyewitness testimony Lettin a Lettin a theory uh and you know why because too because you
00:18:02
had you didn't have a homicide investigator work in that case you had a drug investigator uh working a Narcotics
00:18:09
officer working that case and because they have so few cases they rotate him out there in Boulder and so the mindset
00:18:15
of a a Narcotics officer is different than a homicide officer a Narcotics officer knows comes knows your dealing
00:18:24
knows it's you I know it's you I'm going to make a case on you I'm going to make
00:18:28
it uh you know on you I'm going to build a case all around you informance whatever we're going to get you well you
00:18:33
get that mindset in the homicide case I know you did I know the the certain Behavior py when they brought the child
00:18:41
up uh py was there her fingers were splayed across a face peeking through her eyes and all that other nonsense
00:18:47
stuff no you let you let a uh uh you you let a theory drive your investigation you you were you're into a Narcotics
00:18:56
investigation mindset not a homicide investigators and that's why who's the investigator from Colorado Springs uh L
00:19:02
Smith yeah that's what I was going to say as soon as you are brought in to take a look at the case and as soon as
00:19:09
the famous homicide detective the late great Lou Smith is brought in to take a look at the case the two of you
00:19:16
separately come up with very similar conclusions it's the famous L Smith Intruder Theory I when I when I
00:19:24
testified for the grand jury and then uh he test he testified I guess before I did some a different day and I I
00:19:32
testified afterwards they said that L Smith wanted to speak with me and over in Colorado Springs great guy really
00:19:39
great guy and uh so they drove me over there and and uh I knock on his door and he comes to the door and he said and
00:19:49
introduce ourselves he said John I said I don't know I don't know how you did it it took me 10 months 10 months you
00:19:56
came up with this in 4 days four five days whatever whatever it was and he said and you didn't see everything and
00:20:02
I've got everything I got everything here I'd like to go through the case of PowerPoint presentation and and with you
00:20:09
and I said that'd be great so I went down in his basement he went through the whole case and then seeing even
00:20:14
everything but things I didn't see I just I I just uh certain case had to make assumptions uh everything just fit
00:20:23
and uh then they were coming out that you know that uh that that Lou and myself that the family was
00:20:32
religious that we were that we were being pulled into the Ramses because of uh our faith because of faith and
00:20:40
no we've both of us have been in and investigators of all types will will arrest religious people we don't don't
00:20:50
don't uh you don't care but but if we don't like you know wrongful convi convictions and and destroying the lives
00:20:58
of you know of of people I mean it's terrible to to lose your child but now to be to be accused of killing uh
00:21:06
killing your child and and uh and that's when when you get into Nick the like social media which can be
00:21:12
dangerous a lot of social media could be good where you can develop help and actually can help law enforcement with
00:21:18
leads and people discussion and there's been some websites that been very very successful but then you got others you
00:21:24
know which can totally could jeopardize uh investig investigation and shape the attitude of of people I remember right
00:21:33
after that too I'm on a train going up to New York and and there's a guy in front of me and and this was after I did
00:21:40
an anal analysis I'm back and and and on the night of the crime was like the head
00:21:45
on the night of the crime py was with was with out with her lover and I'm thinking what the hell so I when I get
00:21:52
to New York I call I said I was did was py having an affair with some guy you you're not telling me what are you
00:21:58
talking about and I said this guy but it's one of these rag tabloid things you I saw this on a train no it's garbage
00:22:06
it's garbage but you can see how people see that that kind of crap you know and uh and and and start believing you know
00:22:14
start believing in it and you can't you can't sway their their their opinion at [Music]
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00:24:41
[Applause] today do you think we will ever know who killed Jean Benet I hope so I mean I
00:24:48
don't know you hear different things of a yeah if they brought in they've had some good suspect they
00:24:56
had one good suspect that there they had several I mean uh the the place was full
00:25:02
of uh sex offenders all around the areas where where py and John were living there but then there was one guy who uh
00:25:10
who committed suicide uh he had access to a stun gun see the police discount that L Smith went over the stun gun and
00:25:18
showed me they did they did test with a uh a medical doctor on pigs uh using a stun gun showing the marks of
00:25:28
similarities here I mean hopefully you know DNA familial DNA or something will you know will solve that that case one
00:25:37
one day but I don't know if they're they're working and I hear once in a while you hear like a new attorney
00:25:42
general come in we're going to take a new look at the case or the the uh a prosecutor wants to take a look at the
00:25:49
case but you know hopefully I mean uh it can look at the Golden State case I mean
00:25:54
after all these years I mean we work that case the unit I just worked the I worked when was the East area rapist the
00:26:00
rapes uh that that he was that he was doing and uh we didn't it wasn't responsible it just DNA
00:26:08
DNA got him which was after so many years a police officer uh was responsible we're all very excited for
00:26:18
the release of your new book The Killer Shadow the FBI's hunt for a white supremist serial killer can you tell us
00:26:25
a little bit about your l this book this is a is a different kind of serial killer and it was a case that uh the
00:26:34
first case that the bureau would give me only because they've uh of an supervisor
00:26:38
on the Civil Rights division uh uh Squad up at headquarters KN we knew each other
00:26:44
from Milwaukee division we're on the same SWAT team together and I he knew I was doing this research on serial
00:26:51
murders and go into prisons and he calls me to see if I could be uh be of help so
00:26:55
this would be different Nick this would not be a profile so much as it would be an assessment uh like so you got to kind
00:27:02
of do your an old show years ago was called this is your life you know and uh and they would do this background of
00:27:08
total background of a guy so I would go up to a headquarters and uh yeah it and there was a lot of pressure because if I
00:27:17
screw this thing up I'm just starting to get going here and not not everyone is supportive within the organization of me
00:27:23
doing any of this this research uh they just don't understand you know what the purpose of it is even though we're
00:27:30
helping local police and the later International police departments here so so the assessment is is that the the
00:27:38
latest thing with Franklin is is that he's linked through over 20 homicides He travel he's a he's prolific bank robber
00:27:46
uh he unlike serial killers that have a particular comfort zone for the crimes this guy is all over the place he's all
00:27:53
over the map uh uh he's a bomber some of his cases are bombing uh he is a uh Bank
00:28:03
bank robber prolific bank robber uh he is a it turns out to be an excellent shot with a rifle uh uh in in in fact
00:28:12
he's an excellent shot with only one eye because when he as a youth he lost the sight of eye in his right eye uh in an
00:28:21
accident people think it's said it was a bicycle no it wasn't a bicycle accident
00:28:25
it was a shade and all when window shade with a spring inside he was playing with
00:28:30
his brother the spring came out popped him right in the eye mother took him to the hospital a mother who's extremely
00:28:36
abusive to him a father extremely uh again very very abusive uh to him and and his brothers and and sisters mother
00:28:44
takes him to the hospital the doctor says can't do anything right now well it's temporary but bring him back and
00:28:51
couple of months we'll do some surgery and we'll make his eye good as new she doesn't do that she doesn't take him
00:28:57
back as a young child to the hospital he ends up losing his sight and he then uh
00:29:02
what a way to overcompensate the loss of a sight is to be an excellent shot uh uh
00:29:07
he wanted to be a police officer too another one he said oh another guy wants to be an officer and uh when when he
00:29:14
heard through a neighbor who was a police officer that he couldn't join because of the loss of of one eye he
00:29:21
extremely angry and bitter again towards his uh you know towards his mother hated
00:29:28
hated his mother and his father that's why he would he he would change his name to Joseph his name was James ju he would
00:29:33
change his name to Joseph Paul Paul Franklin and then uh uh he then was gravitated to U these uh
00:29:44
KKK different uh these radical hate hate groups uh American Nazi party passing out literature today he would have a
00:29:52
field day with the internet uh a access uh but then what he realized was because
00:29:58
he was paranoid that uh these organizations were pretty much uh uh infiltrated by FBI by FBI informants and
00:30:07
they were keeping good tabs on them uh on these organizations back there back then and they were primarily you know
00:30:15
talking the talk but not walking the walk and he got became frustrated and uh decided to go out on
00:30:22
his own and and the so-called birth of the the Lone Wolf wolf uh criminal and it just started by tailing interracial
00:30:32
couples first was up in Maryland uh he ma them but then that was after maing them that was the last time he used mace
00:30:41
from then on in he would uh he would start uh using uh uh various Firearms he he shot Larry Flint uh the of uh Flint
00:30:52
uh Hustler magazine he shot he shot him uh he shot uh Vernon Jordan uh civil rights
00:31:01
leader uh you know at at the time he wrote a threatening letter to uh to Jimmy Carter uh Secret Service was uh uh
00:31:10
when he wasn't identified yet was was trying to figure out you know who done it so I what I said was with him the
00:31:17
long and short of it is I came up with an assessment that predicted where he would go in the in the country and that
00:31:23
would be now now that he's a fugitive he's a top 10 uh yeah he committed these crimes all
00:31:29
around these other areas but he's going to it's going to be a homing pigeon now he's going back to mobile it's going
00:31:36
back to mobile and and to Florida he may not be robbing banks because we we'll have a lot of these Banks be notified
00:31:44
staked out and uh but the teletype then was teletypes uh was an internet teletype goes out he's
00:31:52
spotted in Mobile Alabama the agent in charge of the office calls me wants to know the name of the bank or savings a
00:31:59
loan do I think this guy is going to be robbing I said what I said what do he I can't I don't know I you didn't even
00:32:05
know what city he was in I I told you what city he's in so he was there temporarily uh they spotted him
00:32:12
surveillance camer blood bank and then they they uh passed out flyers on him through all these different blood banks
00:32:19
in the in this deep south out in Florida and that's where he would be he would be
00:32:24
spotted uh in a blood blood bank so uh got him there I coached the they'll see I coached the uh the agent on the
00:32:33
interview a little bit uh but then I got to interview him uh later on in the H late 80s 90 90ish uh with with a secret
00:32:44
service agent you would have thought Nick that secret service would have had a behavioral science unit uh over the
00:32:49
years they did not have a unit like we had they they had not done research like we were doing with violent crimes uh at
00:32:56
all and so so I did a couple of cases for secret service over the years that turned out pretty good and so then they
00:33:03
sent down uh a guy great a great guy he's passed away uh Ken Baker Secret Service and and uh we we conducted uh we
00:33:13
some research on Assassins interviewed like squeaky FR who shot Ford Sarah Jane Moore who shot Ford Arthur brema who
00:33:21
shot George Wallace James R Ray shot Dr Martin Luther Luther King and other assassin ation style of per killings and
00:33:29
that's why we interviewed Franklin cuz he had that assassination style of killing and uh the problem is is is that
00:33:38
and we come up with this killer Shadow is that to this day he still cast a shadow a long Shadow uh because there
00:33:45
are others like him out there he's now he's been executed 2013 but uh uh there are others who that
00:33:55
the law enforcement come across of course now and then who uh are emulating people you know like him who who are
00:34:03
being influenced today not so much like the old days where it would be in a some
00:34:08
some hall room or meeting or someone someone's basement now it's on the internet where you can have uh you can
00:34:16
have and there's hundreds and hundreds of sites these uh racist sites anti-semitic sites where where someone
00:34:23
can gravitate to that and not everyone will go will go out and perpetrate acts of violence but but someone may and
00:34:32
someone will will see that and and take action like a you know like this uh uh uh Joseph uh Paul Franklin uh you know
00:34:42
character and so it's and so it's much it's difficult today to investigate them in the old days you had an organization
00:34:49
now you have you have someone who could be influencing others but it's not they're not tied into there's no
00:34:56
hierarchy there's no leader and soldiers you know none of that lieutenants like an organized crime even you don't have
00:35:03
you don't have anything like that so it makes it extremely difficult for law enforcement and law enforcement
00:35:08
resources are very skimpy particularly after 9/11 emphasis was on uh was on International terrorism a little bit D
00:35:17
emphasis on because of resources on domestic uh domestic terrorism so it's uh you it's not over you'll they'll be
00:35:26
others other cases unfortunately uh you know hopefully we can what we we can rely on is is
00:35:35
information from the public when they see someone who's becoming obsessed with with hatred and anti-semitic uh anti-
00:35:44
everything or African-Americans and it's becoming uh obsessed with weapons and other maybe
00:35:53
weapons of Destruction uh law enforcement can't be everywhere at every time so they rely on
00:36:01
public information from Anonymous sources that's what they need to follow up uh the leads to see if this person
00:36:09
you know if they can if will carry out uh a uh you know this you a violent act it's kind of like a school shooter you
00:36:18
mean you have certain indicators but you can't always predict for 100% you can interact inter or intercede and and uh
00:36:26
uh take some action the family or yeah and give this person counseling or whatever uh but very very difficult
00:36:36
very very difficult for law enforcement so they're could to that's what they'll see in this book they'll see the
00:36:41
evolution of him how and and uh kind of like the uh Sunny Bono and Sher the beat
00:36:49
goes on and The Beat Goes On there'll be more unfortunately there'll be more of probably cases like this in in the
00:36:56
future Mr Douglas thank you again for your time today and for doing the interview you've
00:37:02
been more than generous with us here in the garage thanks for having me again and we're working on another one for
00:37:08
next year next year we'll be doing one they want us to do like kind of like an an rule thing like one case that
00:37:15
sometimes be a case that I've worked or maybe case to take a look at you know a new case uh investigate uh try to come
00:37:23
up with a solution or so so me back yes sir as soon as you're done with this next book we'd love to have you back
00:37:30
thank you so much I enjoyed it keep up the good work thank you Mr Douglas for joining us in the
00:37:36
[Music] garage thank you so much for joining us here in the garage letting us be a part
00:37:50
of your week letting us be a part of your holidays Colonel do we have any recommend recomended reading this week
00:37:58
we have a lot to recommend today first off the True Crime garage every single episode archive is available for your
00:38:06
listening pleasure when you download the free Stitcher listening app on your device that's right over 440 episodes to
00:38:15
listen to for free including the last time Mr John Douglas was on the show back in May of
00:38:22
2019 in the John Douglas mind Hunter episode number 302 also we will be recommending a batch of John Douglas's
00:38:32
books we recommended The Killers Shadow last week and you heard us reference in our discussion this week some of his
00:38:39
other great books including the cases that haunt us law and disorder and the killer across the table we will have all
00:38:47
of those great titles listed on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com here's us wishing all of you
00:38:55
and yours a very safe and Happy Thanksgiving be good be thankful and please don't
00:39:10
[Music] live you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
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your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
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visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that