00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details Rosetta Stone
00:00:32
is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about
00:00:37
memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now
00:00:44
Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever
00:00:51
for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a
00:00:58
GameChanger [Music] on Friday August 1st 1969 three letters were received one at
00:01:40
the Vallejo times heral one to the San Francisco Chronicle and one to the San Francisco Examiner the nearly identical
00:01:48
letters took credit for the shootings at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs each letter also included onethird of
00:01:56
what is referred to as the Zodiac 408 Cipher it is called this because the author used
00:02:04
48 different symbols in the cryptogram which the killer claimed that when solved you'll have my name so the
00:02:12
cryptogram is to contain his identity the author demanded that the letters and the cipher be printed on each paper's
00:02:20
front page let's go through each and give a good description of everything that was received first the Vallejo
00:02:28
times the envelope to the Vallejo times is addressed to Vallejo times heral Vallejo califf as to say California c a
00:02:38
l i f please rush to editor with four stamps in the upper right corner of the envelope so way too much postage the
00:02:48
back of the envelope says please rush to editor the envelope to the San Francisco
00:02:53
Examiner is addressed to S period F period examiner San Fran period Calif mhm please rush to editor with two
00:03:02
postage stamps in the upper right corner of the envelope the back of the envelope
00:03:07
again says please rush to editor the envelope to the San Francisco Chronicle is addressed to S period F period
00:03:15
Chronicle San Fran period Calif please rush to editor again with two stamps in the upper right corner of the envelope
00:03:23
and again the back of the envelope says please rush to editor all three envelopes are postmarked from from San
00:03:30
Francisco and dated as mailed on July 31st 1969 the day before they're received so when we talk about where
00:03:39
zodiac lived and What murders he might be quote local to we know one simple fact and that is on Thursday July 31st
00:03:49
1969 the Zodiac was in San Francisco right now for the letters all three letters say basically the same thing
00:03:58
with subtle differences throughout each I even went to the exercise of sitting down and examining all three and
00:04:06
comparing them so that I could write down every subtle difference between the three they are not identical letters but
00:04:12
they are basically delivering the same identical message but real quick they're all three handwritten they're all three
00:04:19
handwritten and the exercise that I did to find the subtle differences between the three was botes it does not work
00:04:28
well for our audio presentation of this case it would be something that would be
00:04:34
interesting to visually show to everyone drop your pants there we go the letters
00:04:40
read dear editor this is the murder of the two teenagers last Christmas Christmas spelled with
00:04:49
M at Lake Herman and the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course in Vallejo
00:04:56
to prove that I killed them I shall State some facts with which only I and the police know Christmas again spelled
00:05:04
m s brand of ammo Super X 10 shots were fired the boy was on his back with his feet to the car the girl was on her
00:05:15
right side feet to the west and real quickly there's no way he would know this as far as this wasn't printed
00:05:23
somewhere where any laymen would know this information so from what I could find based off of the newspapers and in
00:05:31
their versions of the story of the attacks prior to this right that's why I purposely went through the fact that
00:05:39
they were saying in the first attack that each victim was shot three times we know that's not the truth the female
00:05:47
victim was shot five times and that would have been hold back information they did not want anyone to know the
00:05:54
number of shots fired even though the police themselves did know that they said each victim shot three times they
00:06:01
said something like four shell casings were found near the vehicle one thing that he is telling us here that only the
00:06:09
police would know one is 10 shots were fired and two he's naming the brand of ammo that was
00:06:17
used to shoot the two teenagers right he goes on to say 4th July girl was wearing
00:06:24
pattern slacks the boy was also shot in the knee brand name of ammo was Western so again the name of the ammo would not
00:06:34
be known and from what I could find too the the statement of the boy was also shot in the knee this does not seem to
00:06:42
have been general knowledge at the time then he writes over on the page to make sure that you do not fail to flip it
00:06:48
over because he's wrote some more on the back here is part of a cipher the other
00:06:54
two parts of this Cipher are being mailed to the editors of the Vallejo times in San Francisco Examiner now
00:07:01
you're going to change those titles depending on which of the three letters you're reading I want you to print this
00:07:07
Cipher on the front page of your paper in this Cipher is my identity if you do not print this Cipher by the afternoon
00:07:15
of fry f r y first of August 69 now for August he just put a Au ug I will go on a kill Rampage fry night I will Cruise
00:07:29
any misspells Cruz around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again until I end up
00:07:38
with a dozen people over the weekend so as he stated in each letter it contained
00:07:46
one third piece of this Cipher the chronicle published its third of the cryptogram on page four of the next
00:07:55
day's Edition well again he he's telling them post this on the front page and again I'll bring up the Zodiac movie and
00:08:04
I know it's a dramatization but it's the idea is that these newspapers then had to contemplate do we don't want blood on
00:08:13
our hands but at the same time we don't want to meet all the demands of a serial
00:08:19
killer Yes and so the cryptogram was printed on the fourth page of the chronicle and what's interesting here is
00:08:28
the article was printed alongside sorry there was an article that was printed alongside the code that quoted Vallejo
00:08:35
police chief Jack stilts as saying quote we're not satisfied that the letter was
00:08:42
written by the murderer and requested that the writer send a second letter with more facts to prove his identity I
00:08:50
think that was a way to bait him well and what's interesting too Captain is that the his demands were not carried
00:08:57
out as he instructed right and the threatened murders did not happen he you know nobody drove around shooting people
00:09:06
until they killed a dozen people that weekend but eventually all three parts were published right just not on the
00:09:13
front page but look when you think of all the cases that we covered this blows my mind the level of sophistication yeah
00:09:26
okay he spells some words wrong uh and I think you know know I think the spelling
00:09:30
Christmas like that is probably some just stupid joke he's trying to make just like the flip over right mhm I mean
00:09:39
like I said it's just there's this level of sophistication of we're going to send
00:09:42
this to three papers because and now I get to see the reaction of three companies and their
00:09:52
heads and what they're going to do whether they print it on the first page or the fourth page and then there's
00:09:58
different readers for every paper so now I'm going to hear and feel the reactions
00:10:05
of when I'm going through my daily life not as the Zodiac right just as as a regular dude and I'm going to hear the
00:10:14
the Rumblings about my work about what I'm creating it's um I I can't think of another crime off the top of my head of
00:10:27
of something that ballsy well if the police chief from Vallejo was trying to in fact bait the killer or at least the
00:10:35
author of that letter well they took the bait because on August 7th 1969 another
00:10:42
letter was received this was a three paged handwritten letter and it was received by the San Francisco Examiner
00:10:49
with the salutation dear editor this is the Zodiac speaking okay so now this monster has officially given himself a
00:10:59
name this will be the first time the killer had used this name for identification right the letter was a
00:11:07
response to Chief sz's request for more details that would prove he had killed Faraday Jensen and faren this letter
00:11:16
says Dear editor this is the Zodiac speaking in answer to your asking for more details about the good times I have
00:11:25
had in Vallejo I shall be very happy to Supply even more material by the way are
00:11:32
the police having a good time with the code if not tell them to cheer up when they do crack it they will have me on
00:11:41
the 4th of July I did not open the car door the window was rolled down already the boy was originally sitting in the
00:11:48
front seat when I began firing when I fired the first shot at his head he leaped backwards at the same time thus
00:11:56
spoiling my aim he ended up up on the back seat then the floor in the back thrashing out very violently with his
00:12:04
legs that's how I shot him in the knee I did not leave the scene of the killing with squealing tires Racing Engines as
00:12:13
described in the Vallejo paper I drove away quite slowly so as not to draw attention to my car the man who told
00:12:21
police that my car was brown was a negro about 40 to 45 rather shabbily dressed I
00:12:27
was in this phone booth having some fun with the Vallejo cop when he was walking
00:12:33
by when I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring and that Drew his attention to me plus my car last
00:12:43
Christmas again M SS in that episode the police were wondering how I could shoot
00:12:50
and hit my victims in the dark they did not openly State this but implied this by saying it was a well-lit night and I
00:12:58
could see silhouettes on the horizon [ __ ] that area is surrounded by high hills plus trees what I did was tape a
00:13:07
small pencil flashlight to the barrel of my gun if you notice in the center of the beam of light if you aim it at a
00:13:16
wall or ceiling you will see a black or dark spot in the center of the circle of
00:13:22
the light about 3 to 6 in across when taped to a gun barrel the bullet will strike in the center of the black dot in
00:13:31
the light all I had to do was spray them as if it was a water hose there was no need to use the gun sights I was not
00:13:41
happy to see that I did not get front page coverage and then this is where he signs it with what we would later refer
00:13:49
to as the zodiac symbol the circle with the cross in the center of it and then he wrote no address so let's think about
00:13:58
this for a second what does this tell us about our killer well first he seems to
00:14:03
read all three papers and would appear to expect to have access to all three to double check their work on Friday night
00:14:11
or as he says fry night because that's when he's going to start killing people if he doesn't see his work in the papers
00:14:18
yeah but again we don't know how much time this guy has on his hands he could make the time if it's that important to
00:14:26
to collect these uh resources again I don't have the notes in front of me like you do but there's not a lot of
00:14:33
misspelled words this guy isn't uh a dentist Raider he's not misspelling a bunch of words and he's also explaining
00:14:43
to you how he basically jimmied his gun to have light in the dark I I I don't want to give this guy
00:14:54
too much credit but again I think you're dealing with a somewhat of an intellectual yeah and I think that it's
00:15:02
a strong possibility that the Zodiac has some type of military background now talking about where he may live or what
00:15:10
he has access to again I don't believe I I can't believe that he threw out this threat and didn't want to double check
00:15:17
their work I really firmly believe he would have been in a position to have the ability to access all three
00:15:26
newspapers that Friday night to see his work that's what he that's what he loves
00:15:32
yeah you wonder if he's a some kind of driver or Delivery Man or well what I find interesting is we know that on the
00:15:39
day before he would have been in San Francisco because that's where the letters were mailed from right all three
00:15:45
yet of the newspapers the Vallejo times would be the smallest of the three papers and I wonder how much
00:15:54
availability at the time that Vallejo paper would have been in the the bigger city of San Francisco I could see being
00:16:01
in Vallejo and being able to get the San Francisco papers I just wonder could one
00:16:06
get the Vallejo paper in San Fran the other thing that I want to point out here too is we also know that he reads
00:16:15
the San Francisco Examiner and that seems like a dumb statement but I want to include that because we know that he
00:16:22
reads the San Francisco Examiner specifically because he responded to Chief sz's request for more details that
00:16:30
was only printed in one of the three papers but what's interesting for whatever reason he's responding to
00:16:36
something he read in the San Francisco Examiner but he sends those additional details to the other paper to the San
00:16:43
Francisco Chronicle right so it's it's weird it's uh why why the preference of having it printed in the San Francisco
00:16:52
Chronicle when you respond to something that was in The Examiner or is it just another one of his weird little games
00:16:59
and here comes Captain Obvious for you again a little bit of sophistication a little bit of cat and mouse a little bit
00:17:08
of I I want to see how people react but the intellectual part the cipher dividing up the cipher in three
00:17:18
parts and I'm not great at cryptograms or anything like that so I'm not going to pretend to fully understand this but
00:17:26
some things that I do know is one you're looking for words that have the common double consonant use that's that's one
00:17:36
key indicator that you could quickly pick up on right as well as the the most common letter used in the English
00:17:45
language is the letter e and he was sophisticated enough to know this that he used I believe it was seven different
00:17:54
symbols for the letter e so it you know you couldn't one couldn't easily pick this up and figure out the letter e
00:18:01
immediately just by looking at it you know you would you would count up the number you would count up the symbols
00:18:07
that were used repeatedly and the one that was repeated the most you would say well that should be e right and start
00:18:13
from there well he used seven different symbols if not more for the letter e now
00:18:18
interestingly enough on August 8th so he's already responded to their request for more information to prove that he's
00:18:26
the killer before the cipher is solved because it's solved on the eth and this was solved by Donald and Betty Harden of
00:18:35
salinus California they were the ones that cracked the Zodiac's 408 Cipher are they
00:18:41
mathematicians they were I believe teachers nerds um and I don't know if it was math or or what but um both of them
00:18:49
had an interest in code cracking and it was kind of a hobby of theirs the the interesting thing too it seems like
00:18:57
Donald was a little more schooled in this ability but it was Betty that kept the two of them at task like there were
00:19:07
multiple times where he's like it's impossible just give up and she's like no we got we're going to stick with this
00:19:12
we'll be able to solve it and so the husband and wife yeah behind every great man is an even better woman a smarter
00:19:19
woman but what I like about it is I I love the people that go no don't give up we're almost there well and we'll get
00:19:26
into the decipherment here in a minute but the cipher contained misspellings as you said and the killer seemed to be
00:19:36
referencing the most dangerous game now for those that don't know the most dangerous game was also it's a story
00:19:43
that was also published as the hounds of zarof it's a short story by Richard Connell after decoded the cipher reads
00:19:53
as follows I like killing people because it is so much fun it is more fun than killing Wild game in the forest because
00:20:01
man is the most dangerous animal of all not true that's mosquitoes to kill something gives me the most thrilling
00:20:08
experience it is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl the best part of it is that when I die I
00:20:15
will be reborn in Paradise the I have killed will become my slaves I will not give you my name
00:20:23
because you will try to slow down or stop my collecting of slaves for my afterlife and then there are 18 letters
00:20:33
e b e o r i e t e m e t h HP I ti so the 408 symbol Cipher next time won't choose
00:20:45
single as the captain pointed out includes several misspellings and grammar errors mhm now the meaning if
00:20:53
there in fact is any meaning at all of the final 18 letters has never been determined okay but how could they say
00:21:01
that the couple cracked the code well this is really interesting and this is this like throws some psychology into it
00:21:07
as well because the couple they were saying look obviously this guy wants attention or he wouldn't have bothered
00:21:15
to write the letters in the first place right agree so they said you know we went into this after examining it for a
00:21:21
while with the idea that someone so self-centered would likely begin the letter or the whole message with I with
00:21:29
the word I also Betty She suspected that the word kill would obviously appear in
00:21:37
the message at some point right so that's a good call yeah and she said that she took it as far as to suggest
00:21:44
that the message might even begin with a phrase something to the effect of I like
00:21:49
killing so if you use that and apply it and say all right well we we think that maybe it will start with the word I and
00:21:57
that we will see the word kill at some point in there you're looking for the double consonants the two L's and kill
00:22:05
mhm two symbols the same next to each other to be used or you you apply that uh I like killing as a possible first
00:22:16
phrase and then work it out through there I think we talked a little bit about this off
00:22:24
record but the type of killing that he's doing yes I mean by having two individuals it seems like
00:22:34
it there's more cause for possibly a mistake for one of them to get free and to live and then become a eyewitness but
00:22:45
it's one of the less risky crimes he's uh he's pray on people in in areas that they that they know they're
00:22:55
going to be vulnerable and they're going to be alone and can can take advantage of that yeah yeah it's again It's tricky
00:23:02
to completely we're talking about decoding it's it's it's difficult to decipher how he's coming up with his
00:23:10
victims but one thing that seems to be going on in this situation is that killing might not be the number one
00:23:18
objective here no it it almost feels like the the uh reaction the suspense of him
00:23:26
killing again is what really truly excites him and that's where I go back to the idea of the threat of oh I'll
00:23:33
drive around if you don't print print this on your front pages like I asked you to I'm going to drive around all
00:23:39
weekend shooting people until I end up with a dozen dead over the weekend well he didn't do that we know he didn't do
00:23:46
that and so you go well well why didn't he do that because he got just as much enjoyment out of seeing the reaction the
00:23:55
Panic the people working to try to to solve the cipher and the reaction that it was putting out there for that
00:24:03
weekend he achieved enough excitement over that that he didn't have to go out and actually shoot and kill anybody yeah
00:24:09
I agree and I think that's because the the excitement's actually higher because I would actually think that you
00:24:17
have more chances of getting caught they're asking for the letter so they know it's coming so how much information
00:24:23
can they find out about where that letter is coming from but that's what baffles me a little bit is their demand
00:24:31
is a higher risk that he could get caught than him him going on to kill other people
00:24:40
yes and that's why it's a good kind of proactive technique to try to bait the author into sending something again
00:24:48
because look if you can't shake the bushes and get the killer to come out then your second goal is well let's
00:24:55
shake the bushes and maybe the author comes out and it turns out that they weren't the
00:24:59
Killer and yeah and if you can shake the bushes well enough then you're a master
00:25:05
baiter but what happens is they when they bait the author they end up getting more
00:25:13
confirmation that yes the author is in fact the person that killed all three of those
00:25:22
[Music] victims [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
00:25:37
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:25:43
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:25:49
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:25:57
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:26:04
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:26:10
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:26:17
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's better help
00:26:25
hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been
00:26:34
using the rap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and
00:26:40
it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their
00:26:47
lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check
00:26:54
out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
00:27:02
thought it was an Eco move fewer worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic must be
00:27:11
a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service instantly
00:27:17
and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than just a list
00:27:24
get started at angie.com that's a ngi or download the app [Music] today all right welcome back you True
00:27:54
Crime addicts cheers mates cheers all right Captain we have another attack so brace yourself this time the
00:28:04
Zodiac Killer will strike in broad daylight the date is Saturday September 27th 1969 the location is lake beresa lake
00:28:15
beresa is the largest lake in Napa County Florida located in the vka mountains to give a general location to
00:28:23
the listeners in relationship to the previous attacks lake beresa is located about 36 M north of Vallejo mhm so quite
00:28:32
a quite a good distance considerable distance considering the first two attacks were within about 2 miles of
00:28:38
each other in the evening hours Pacific Union college students this is 20-year-old Brian Hartnell and
00:28:46
22-year-old Cecilia Shepard are picnicking at Lake beresa on a small island connected by a sand spit to Twin
00:28:56
Oak Ridge a man approached them now as he got closer they could clearly see that the
00:29:03
man was wearing a disguise and holding a handgun mhm the disguise or as I would call it the Zodiac's costume is
00:29:13
described as a hooded mask with a symbol sewn onto the chest The Mask resembles a
00:29:20
paper grocery bag in shape flat on top with the corner sticking out it was black with slits cut in it for the eyes
00:29:29
and mouth over the eye holes there were clipon sunglasses The Mask draped down over the chest and back of the man the
00:29:40
symbol sewn onto the chest portion of the Mask is a circle with a cross in it the now familiar crosshairs looking
00:29:48
symbol that the Zodiac uses as his logo so to speak yeah so now we have the guy gives himself a name the zodiac a very
00:29:58
ominous name the Zodiac and now he's wearing this costume and he's given himself a logo as well we have a killer
00:30:05
that's really kind of coming to life as almost like a super villain from a comic
00:30:12
book yeah but hearing that his mask is similar to like a grocery sack it's that's a little disappointing hey look
00:30:19
at me I'm captain sackhead give me some candy well let's get into that after we go through what happened on that day the
00:30:28
hood that we're talking about came down over a dark colored windbreaker the windbreaker was worn over top of what
00:30:37
has been called a rusty black shirt I don't know exactly what that means my guess is anybody that's owned
00:30:44
you know you wear a black shirt a whole bunch of times it can can get faded but sometimes it almost takes on this Rusty
00:30:51
appearance yeah so he's wearing black gloves as well he's wearing baggy pleated pants tucked into boots he has
00:31:01
on a belt with a wooden holder attached to the belt and the holder is for a long
00:31:07
knife now the knife resembles a bayonet with a wooden handle he had some lengths
00:31:14
of rope stuffed inside his belt I've seen several sources state that these were very likely cut clothesline
00:31:22
probably cut into 18 in or 2 ft long pieces given the time period in other cases we have reviewed cut clothesline
00:31:30
makes good sense the attacker was 5T 10 in to 6' 2 in tall the hood is often described as a black executioners type
00:31:44
Hood so given that description and the general shape of this Hood I would believe this may make his exact height a
00:31:52
little more difficult to determine and that's why I think he may have chose that that oddly shaped grocery bag type
00:32:00
shape for the hood right plus he has it cut in a way that it's going to drape down the front of him and the back of
00:32:08
him it just really makes his exact height very difficult to determine yeah and also doesn't hug the features of his
00:32:15
face correct he's described as doesn't hug the face doesn't hug my face he's described as possibly
00:32:24
225 to 250 lb so a big boy stocky and build again given the fact that he was clearly very overdressed with
00:32:34
unnecessary layers of clothing and baggy pants he may appear to be heavier than what he actually is and I know this is a
00:32:42
point of contention in the deli case with the bridge guy a glimpse into the space this is very interesting a glimpse
00:32:49
into the space behind those clipon sunglasses right by our one of our victims revealed brown hair and what he
00:32:59
said a glimmer suggesting that maybe the attacker is wearing glasses underneath the
00:33:07
hood his voice it is said sounded like he was in his 20s Brian Hartnell believed that the gun that the man had
00:33:17
was a 45 now the way that a 45 looks traditionally is very consistent with what some in law enforcement say was the
00:33:27
likely used in at least one of the earlier attacks that that Browning high-powered uh handgun that we spoke of
00:33:34
okay so again let's let's take a step back for a second cuz we have a guy that now we think he has access to multiple
00:33:40
guns he has access to multiple Vehicles he is now sending letters not just calling and taking responsibility but
00:33:49
sending letters taunting different Publications different entities if you will and then
00:33:57
this one seems a little more Brash because it's in the daylight he's he's wearing a costume so he's going to stick
00:34:05
out like a sore thumb or a sore loser it's also on a remote part like you said almost an island so it seems like again
00:34:16
setting himself up in more of a dangerous scenario to get caught yes yes and maybe no and I have a lot of
00:34:25
thoughts on that why he's kind of changing what he's doing I think he's in a way evolving and adapting to to the
00:34:34
battlefield if you will I actually believe that this guy is playing a game and he's not informed the rest of us
00:34:40
that this game is going on right and it is a a type of game that he's playing and he doesn't he's chosen not to tell
00:34:48
us the rules of this game but his objective is to kill terrorize put the fear of the community into the people in the
00:34:59
community and not get caught for it and I think what you see here is too you mention access to multiple weapons or
00:35:07
now we're potentially seeing different guns used and a bayonet type knife this guy his makeup his profile very much
00:35:17
would indicate this guy has to be kind of a weapons Enthusiast of some sort he's not
00:35:24
somebody that just purchased one gun or or his daddy died and gave him a gun no this is a guy that that is actively
00:35:33
collecting using practicing with different guns and weapons so much so that he explains to them look you made
00:35:41
it sound like oh I could I was just shooting at the silouettes as they ran from me no that's [ __ ] I purposely
00:35:48
outfitted my weapon so that I could hunt in the night and make it easy on me it's
00:35:55
dark I don't want to use my sites it's almost nearly impossible if not impossible to use them in the pitch
00:36:01
black so I taped a pencil flashlight to the barrel of my gun anybody that's ever
00:36:07
aimed that at a wall or ceiling knows that you will see this and the gun behaves and reacts in relationship to
00:36:14
the flashlight in this manner yeah this means this is all stuff this dude has practiced and tried on his own the only
00:36:21
thing he was missing was an audience and the audience unfortunately would be his
00:36:26
future victim when he played this out again yeah but I also think when he said hey look here's
00:36:32
my demands put these notes in the the ciphers on the front page and then they didn't instead of going with his
00:36:39
original plan they zigged he zagged he was killing people at night okay now they're on to that I'm going to show
00:36:47
them can kill a different way I'm willing to kill in the daylight so now we don't have a killer that we're just
00:36:55
worried when the when the sun goes down we have a killer that we need to be worried about all the time there in lies
00:37:02
the terrorist aspect of this killer it's you're you're only truly good at the terrorism game if people are afraid of
00:37:11
you all of the time and this is to suggest to the community look I don't just hunt at nighttime baby I do this
00:37:18
whenever I feel like it and until I am caught you all should be very afraid continuing on with the description of
00:37:26
the attack at Lake beresa the hooded gunman demanded the couple's money and car keys saying he wanted to drive to to
00:37:35
Mexico right he said he escaped from a prison in Deer Lodge Montana where he had killed a prison guard he said that
00:37:43
he had no money and was driving a stolen car Brian gave the attacker his money and keys to his Volkswagen Carmen Gia
00:37:54
then using the pre-cut lengths of of clothesline he instructed Cecilia to tie up Brian then the hooded man tied up
00:38:03
Cecilia put her face down next to Brian the killer then checked and tightened Brian's bindings the couple seem to
00:38:12
believe the man's story they thought they were simply being robbed this is until he told them that he was going to
00:38:20
stab them both right then he drew his knife and he stabbed them both repeatedly he began by stabbing Brian
00:38:27
first in the back and then he moved on to Cecilia and did the same but she rolled onto her back in like in in the
00:38:37
struggle and ended up being stabbed repeatedly on in the front as well Brian said that he pretended to be dead now
00:38:48
after the attack the attacker tossed the money and keys onto the couple's blanket
00:38:54
and simply walked off so he came up with this story I'm here to take your money in your your car and then tossing them
00:39:02
on the blanket indicates he didn't want their money nor did he need their car the killer then hiked 500 yard back to
00:39:09
Knoxville Road this is to Brian hartel's Volkswagen Carmen Gia right before the killer left using a black felt tip
00:39:19
marker he wrote a message on Brian hartnell's car he drew a cross circle symbol on hartnell's car door and wrote
00:39:29
beneath it Vallejo 12-20-18 7-4 d69 September 2769 630 by knife so the zodiac symbol
00:39:46
followed by Vallejo the location of the first two attacks followed by the dates of those attacks then the date of the
00:39:53
current attack September 27th the Lake beresa he even provided the time 6:30 and the method for which he intended to
00:40:02
kill the victims by knife again what did we do here I'm killing my victims with a gun at night now I'm
00:40:13
going to switch to killing my victims during the day with a knife yes and what's interesting to me Captain I
00:40:19
actually I say that I believe that the Killer is evolving he's evolving for the purpose
00:40:25
of his game again his game is to terrorize continue to terrorize and not get caught I mean but that's your
00:40:33
blanket statement is that it's that's what my belief it's a game of terrorism but there's no like there you don't have
00:40:40
deeper details that you the Zodiac has not told me that I'm correct so I'm just guessing son [ __ ] I'm just guessing
00:40:48
here but I also believe that his main goal out of all of this is not to get caught so if I apply that to these
00:40:56
crimes times let's think about this for a second the first the first attack the first 100% confirmed zodiac attack took
00:41:05
place just before Christmas 1968 he's successful and to the point of not only killing both
00:41:13
victims but there's no real Witnesses you know the problem for him then becomes on July 4th he does a very
00:41:22
similar attack or what we can believe would be a very similar attack as the first one however he screwed up he left
00:41:32
before killing both victims one of the guys survived to the point where he could offer a description of the zodiac
00:41:40
yeah it was a couple but the the male survived correct Michael Mao he survived and what does he provide police he
00:41:50
provides them with a description of the shooter as well as a somewhat vague but a description of the vehicle M here's
00:41:58
what I think is super interesting why is he changing I don't think it's so much so to terrorize and prove that he can
00:42:05
kill in any method or any manner that he chooses I think it's all kind of convenient because he's learning what he
00:42:13
did wrong so he knows now that he's not perfect he's had two attacks on four victims one survives he now knows that
00:42:24
he's not perfect after his second attack doesn't go down the way he wanted it to
00:42:28
right so what has he taken from this well they've already kind of there's a description out there about my vehicle
00:42:37
there's a description out there about me okay well I'm going to attack now in a manner that does not have me pulling
00:42:47
my vehicle up to their vehicle or up to the victims because if I accidentally leave one of them alive his intent is to
00:42:54
kill let's let's not be confused here his intent is to kill everyone he attacks but he knows that he's not
00:43:00
perfect so I do not want to have to put my vehicle where if one of these people manages to survive somehow we'll have a
00:43:09
description of my vehicle also I'm going to wear a disguise because if in fact one of them do survive they can't give a
00:43:17
description of me because I've worn this elaborate disguise right the potato sack
00:43:23
how about I take it a step further one a gun is pretty loud and I'm doing this at
00:43:27
Lake beresa which is in fact just basically a huge gigantic Park all that noise is going to cause a lot of people
00:43:36
awareness of me and they might be seeing me so let's use something much more quiet Like a Knife oh and that's even
00:43:43
better too because then I'm not leaving behind bullets and casings that they can
00:43:48
match it to my previous crimes or to or or back to me because it's a firearm arm
00:43:56
that I own yeah and I also wonder if he changed the way in which he was attacking victims not just to throw off
00:44:03
law enforcement or to like show people hey look I I can kill people however I want and and that will strike fear into
00:44:12
the community but in the in that moment you have to stab that individual more times than you'd have to shoot them and
00:44:21
you'd have to be at a closer range so do you get more of whatever he's getting off on he's getting off on chaos and
00:44:31
rage and their fear and how they're reacting to him you think I would think that attack with a knife would be more
00:44:41
intimate yes he's certainly becoming more violent and whether that's because he aspires to become more violent or if
00:44:49
it's through necessity of changing his Mo right the other thing with the inroad day see I feel like the Zodiac would
00:44:59
want all of us to go oh wow I mean he's so he he's so confident that he's out there killing in broad daylight and now
00:45:09
he's handson and and but he's wearing a a potato sack I think that he would enjoy and would want us to think that
00:45:16
where I think that he's actually fairly inadequate where I think that he does not have a whole lot of confidence even
00:45:22
though he tries to tell us that he does I think that he has made these moves and these
00:45:29
Maneuvers to change what he's doing because he is afraid that he's going to get caught that he does know that he has
00:45:36
made mistakes I think if it were up to him he would have simply kept doing what he did in the first attack and been
00:45:45
successful all along but because he was learning that he's not perfect he's deciding that he has to change well I
00:45:52
was talking to a a season Detective retired and he just said hey what's your next case and I said uh zodiac and he
00:46:01
goes you know this was this was a real detective he he he didn't read a lot about uh true crime stories or other
00:46:10
cases going on he worked his cases he's like how did he kill his victims again uh wasn't he lover Lovers Lane shooter
00:46:18
or something I said uh yeah yeah Lover Lover Lane and he and and he basically was saying cow
00:46:27
and so we also don't know what people were saying around the Zodiac when he's in his
00:46:36
normal life he could have just had a buddy that he was like man that zodiac man he's going around killing people and
00:46:44
and the guy went oh what a wuss you know guy pulls up on unsuspected victims in the middle of night with a
00:46:54
gun what kind of f what kind of fair fight is that you know what I mean well it never is with these guys and that's
00:47:01
why in fact they are all cowards at at the at the core of it at the core of of their being they're all I mean he's
00:47:09
ambushing teenagers unarmed people it's not a it's it's not a fair fight and he knows that going into it yeah but that's
00:47:17
what I'm saying is what I think is interesting is how much of the decision is he making based off this game he's
00:47:25
playing or this zigg and zag game that he's playing with law enforcement or it could be simply you know he's talking to
00:47:33
people about the crime in his regular life and they make some observations and then he goes well I got to change it up
00:47:40
cuz uh Zodiac's done impressing people enough you know and this killing in broad daylight I don't think that it
00:47:47
shows that his confidence is growing I think it's just out of necessity he's killing at basically what is a big giant
00:47:54
park right so so when do parks close when the Sun goes down so if you want to drive there looking for a victim your
00:48:01
likelihood of finding a victim after Sundown is less likely so he I again I think because of he him choosing this
00:48:09
area he's kind of forced into attacking during broad daylight now Captain it looks like our two victims they were
00:48:18
able to crawl some distance from the scene their screams and cries for help were in fact heard by a man who was with
00:48:26
his son they were on a fishing trip uh in the area that day the man contacted the park rangers now Cecilia was
00:48:35
conscious when Law Enforcement Officers arrived right this was Napa County Sheriff's Office that arrived on scene
00:48:43
but she very quickly slipped into a coma during the transportation to the hospital and never regained
00:48:51
Consciousness she died two days later from her injuries Brian Hartnell the the male victim
00:48:58
survived and was able to provide law enforcement with the details of the attack and the attacker the details that
00:49:05
we just went through right at 7:40 p.m. by the Killer's own words this would be a little more than 1 hour after the
00:49:14
attack A call came in to the Napa County Police Department on the call the unidentified male caller sounded to be
00:49:22
maybe early 20s according to to the person taking the call said he wanted to report a double murder and before he
00:49:31
hung up he said he was the perpetrator of those murders not just reporting the murders right but I'm the guy that did
00:49:39
it the call was from a pay phone at a Napa car wash on Main Street in Napa at the car wash the phone was found still
00:49:49
off the hook minutes later by a radio reporter this pay phone is located only blocks away from the Napa Sheriff's
00:49:58
Office this is 27 mil though from the crime scene again weird that this guy okay he's going to carry out these
00:50:08
attacks and again by his own words he thinks he was successful he's calling in a double murder and fortunately Brian
00:50:16
Hartnell survived yeah but an an hour to an hour and 10 minutes uh roughly and then this
00:50:26
location probably a 30 minute drive would be my guess I don't find too much of a problem with the missing time here
00:50:35
and that's because we know several facts about this crime one the killer walked a
00:50:40
considerable distance from the parking area to where he attacked both of the victims and then
00:50:49
walked then had to walk back he wrote on the vehicle and then he left the area the detective Ives were able to lift a
00:50:58
still wet palm print from the telephone used by the killer but it looks like they were never able to match it to any
00:51:06
one suspect at the crime scene Captain there were tire tracks found near Brian's car
00:51:13
so someone parked behind Brian's car it is believed that this is the vehicle of the Killer and here's why they said that
00:51:22
the front of this car that that left track they could tell by the tracks that the front of this car seemed to have
00:51:29
tires that were not only worn but they were actually two different sizes okay so we believe this to be the
00:51:36
Killer's vehicle because Footprints led to the murder scene and then back again to that parking area that went right up
00:51:45
to the door of Brian's Carmen Gia the shoe size was 102 the subject was estimated to weigh
00:51:54
at least 22 20 lb so this fits with Brian's description as well right the prints were from a wing walker type of
00:52:02
boot this type of boot was produced under government contract and distributed on the west coast to Navy
00:52:10
and Air Force some people at the lake that day provided descriptions of a man that they said seemed to be
00:52:19
suspicious this unidentified male was in a light blue or silver Chevy with California tags smoking cigarettes he
00:52:29
was 6 foot tall or more 200 to 230 lb mid-20s to mid-30s with straight dark hair side part clean cut they have him
00:52:41
wearing a black sweatshirt with sleeves long sleeves I'm sorry dark blue slacks and a t-shirt was visible hanging out of
00:52:50
the pants uh in the back and W was hanging out in his front and here's another I unidentified male description
00:52:57
maybe the same person maybe not we don't know this person was described as 5'10 stocky wearing a dark long sleeve shirt
00:53:05
with some red on it and dark pants now longtime listeners of this show we'll know from our John Douglas mind Hunter
00:53:14
episodes as he said the FBI did not investigate the Zodiac crimes at the time but did so later Douglas however
00:53:22
suggests that maybe the killer at this attack provided us a clue to his identity specifically the I escaped from
00:53:32
a prison in Deer Lodge Montana and Douglas who even lived in Montana at some point in his life says
00:53:40
that Deer Lodge Montana is not just the kind of place that you just pick at random or pull it out of thin air M he
00:53:48
believes that there's a likelihood that this the attacker the killer the Zodiac has some some connection to that area
00:53:57
now he did say that it was specifically looked at there was not a recent escape from a prison there there was not a
00:54:06
recent murder of a prison guard there that part was made up but Douglas firmly believes that this Deer Lodge
00:54:13
Montana is real is is more truth Than Fiction so I always just thought it was a a ruse just to throw him off the set
00:54:21
Douglas actually suggested using some proactive techniques and he said that he would use this Deer Lodge Montana idea
00:54:31
in maybe snuffing out the snuff up iess sniffing out the killer mhm he says what
00:54:37
he would have done if he would have been active on the case at the time would be
00:54:40
to cooperate with an investigative reporter in the Deer Lodge Montana area right and have them run some kind of
00:54:49
story about the Zodiac and that they're seeking information from some different people
00:54:55
and whatnot he really felt that if you could tie together Vallejo California lake berasa
00:55:04
California and Deer Lodge Montana there's not going to be a great portion of the population that have lived in
00:55:11
both places mhm and that would really shrink down your suspect pool now the description that we gave of the
00:55:21
suspicious man this may not be the Zodiac at all may not be the Killer at all this is just somebody that was
00:55:27
spotted at Lake beresta that day by two different groups of people maybe the same man maybe not but they said they
00:55:34
all thought this guy to be suspicious you're asked have you seen anything unusual or anything suspicious in nature
00:55:41
you report that to police and we went through the description of this mail or males this was put out to the public and
00:55:49
in a very smart move the police did not refer to this man as a suspect simply they said this is someone that was at
00:55:58
Lake beresa on the day of the murders and is somebody that police would like to speak with yeah I mean it's the same
00:56:03
thing they did in deli with Bridge guy but I wonder if you know if he was in this prison does that mean that he's
00:56:11
catchable well I don't necessarily think that Douglas thinks that the man served
00:56:16
time in prison I think he's just pointing out that not everyone across this big country would even know that
00:56:25
Deer Lodge Montana exists right and that there is a prison in the area and so he's just saying that this simply means
00:56:33
that somebody had some kind of knowledge of that Deer Lodge Montana area and it's
00:56:39
not wouldn't be commonplace for anyone to have that information all right so again after this one he wants that
00:56:46
recognition we don't see this all the time with serial killers where they want law enforcement to know hey guys I'm out
00:56:55
here and I'm not stopping most of the time The Killers want to hide that aspect but he he places a call again and
00:57:03
the interesting thing here is on that call from the reports that I've seen it doesn't necessarily say that he's taking
00:57:10
responsibility for all of the zodiac murders he's simply saying that he's reporting a double murder at Lake beresa
00:57:17
and I'm the guy that killed the two well he knows that he can keep his message his phone call short and sweet he
00:57:24
doesn't have to go into the Vallejo crimes right because he knows that when law enforcement arrive on the scene
00:57:31
they're going to find Brian hartel's vehicle and on that car door he wrote Vallejo in the two dates of the attack
00:57:39
then he wrote today's date and the time by knife he knows the shock value of that is going to be Supreme when the
00:57:47
when law enforcement show up on the scene and see that on the car door they will immediately know right that he's
00:57:54
done all three and it's fascinating because as you pointed out this is an individual that he wants some kind of
00:58:02
credit for these murders and he wants law enforcement to know that he's a serial killer and you you but you also
00:58:10
wonder during this time frame how many calls that they're getting that are hoaxes yeah and the scary thing too that
00:58:18
I've always considered is look if this kind of thing was going on on a public level this is all very public we have
00:58:26
letters going to the newspapers being printed out so anybody can read them yes the the scary thing I've always thought
00:58:33
about in regards to the Zodiac Killer case is if if you had somebody that you wanted to take out that you wanted to
00:58:42
kill at this time well what better way to go and kill that person and maybe the Zodiac takes
00:58:50
credit for it or maybe the public thinks that the Zodiac did it [Music] for everything true crime check us out
00:59:10
at true Crim garage.com and check out our bonus show called off the Record it's only on Stitcher premium and join
00:59:17
us back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
00:59:58
you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen
01:00:11
remodel connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well inside to outside
01:00:18
repairs to Renovations get started on the Angie app or visit angie.com today you can do this when you Angie
01:00:28
that