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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen certainly one of the fine leaders of
00:01:53
America's strong drinking class he is the captain old the drunken ass it's good to be seen and it's good to see you
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thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are very happy to be
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featuring another great beer from one of our favorite breweries fresh out the fridge we have
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caps out of five and we get to break down this week's case with a couple of cold ones thanks to our good friends
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right here Captain I would like to give a cheers to Robin and Alexandria Virginia and a big we like your jib to
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Middlefield Connecticut next stop we have Odetta what a beautiful name from Covington Kentucky and last but
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] [Applause]
00:03:54
[Music] crime [Music] [Music] [Music] parts of the following are Tak from Paul MC's Daily News
00:04:32
article shortly before 5:00 p.m. October 16th a Dusty White Chevrolet Impala with
00:04:41
a blue top and Alabama license plates turned into the driveway of a Cape Cod home on flood Street in Marboro
00:04:50
Connecticut the driver a tall gaunt man with collar length red hair and busy sideburns sat in the the car for several
00:05:00
seconds watching the rearview mirror and trying to determine if he was being observed then he took assault off
00:05:08
shotgun from the car floor and stuck it in his waistband under his slacks and sport
00:05:15
shirt he climbed slowly out of the car his left hand pressing the shotgun barrel against his left thigh discarding
00:05:22
a half smoked cool in the drive he walked to the house where Karen wine aged 30 5 lived with her two teenage
00:05:32
daughters the unexpected visitor chose the wine home at random while driving through New
00:05:38
England marbor is a peaceful town in the heart of Connecticut 12 mil southeast of
00:05:46
Harford at the time of our story the population is 3,600 residents with no police force a resident state trooper is
00:05:55
the only law man in marbor Don wine a pretty 15-year-old school girl was doing her homework when
00:06:03
the doorbell rang she opened the door and the unexpected visitor grinned at her exposing teeth stained Yellow by
00:06:14
cigarettes he inquired if her mother was home she said no he asked if her father was in and she
00:06:24
said he didn't live there anymore suddenly the unexpected VIs visitor lunged forward pushing the girl
00:06:32
back into the house he followed her inside and closed the door he jerked the shotgun from his pants leg and took her
00:06:40
upstairs to her bedroom where he stripped and sexually abused her all the time smiling and promising not to hurt
00:06:50
her Don's mother a practical nurse came home from her Hospital job about 6:00 she saw the car in the driveway and
00:07:00
she entered the house later both Karen and Dawn were found bound raped and strangled their killer was long gone and
00:07:13
nowhere in sight this is the case of the Casanova [Music] killer [Music] early 1974 sitting in a Florida State Prison
00:07:44
is 27 soon to be 28-year-old Paul John nolles he has been wasting away for several years now after he was
00:07:53
incarcerated for kidnapping a police officer a serious offense is isn't that right there Captain yeah I don't think
00:08:01
they should let kids be police officers well when one thinks of someone to abduct an officer of the law doesn't
00:08:08
really come to mind it's not your typical victim but one thing I want to point out before we move on and so we
00:08:14
all have an understanding of who Paul JN nolles is he is a career criminal he has
00:08:20
been committing crimes most of his life by this point he's only 27 almost 28 years old and during the commission of
00:08:28
some smaller crimes he finds himself committing larger crimes to not get caught so yeah according to a tiny
00:08:36
little article that I found in the Orlando Sentinel titled kidnapper sentenced Paul John nolles was just 18
00:08:43
years old at the time he was sentenced in Jacksonville Florida to 5 years in prison for kidnapping a policeman at
00:08:50
gunpoint nolles plad guilty to this charge but here we are Captain he was sentenced to 5 years but now it's been
00:08:59
over 9 years and he's still sitting in prison how does that work out well they used to have a Furlow program in in
00:09:08
Florida and the way that that worked was after you served a good amount of time you would get privileges such as the
00:09:16
ability to leave the prison to go out on an overnight stay or maybe even a weekend stay somewhere this normally
00:09:25
when you're at the end of your prison sent trying to reintegrate you into society where they're going to be forced
00:09:33
to release you into at some point yeah I just think that's one of the dumbest things I've heard well the way that he
00:09:40
ends up getting in trouble is he goes out but doesn't come back in imagine that and I'm sure this was probably a
00:09:48
pretty common problem that they faced and that's why you don't see these types of programs as much anymore most of the
00:09:55
time now we have jails that have like work release and things like that well while in prison nolles was reading
00:10:02
an astrology magazine and came across a penp pal column he finds the address for
00:10:08
a young woman in California this is 28-year-old Angela kovic in some Publications she is listed as Angela
00:10:16
Samuels or Angela Samuels kovic so for sake of argument I'll just go forward with Angela kovic I think Captain she
00:10:25
was coming out of a divorce around the same time so whatever name the publication used at the time was
00:10:32
probably whatever name she told them now Angela is a attractive cocktail waitress
00:10:37
out in San Francisco her parents own the nightclub that she works at so she's got
00:10:44
access to a little Peola noes is a Taurus and Angela is a Leo and because they're both fans of astrology and read
00:10:53
this astrology magazine that seems to be important to them noes tells Angela that
00:11:00
she is his number one Yiddish Angel and Angela calls noes PJ after quite some time corresponding Angela makes
00:11:09
arrangements for nolles to get an attorney she wants to help him out you know we got to get this guy out of
00:11:15
prison at some point to forward our relationship the attorney is there to help him with his parole on May 14th
00:11:24
Paul John nolles is paroled by the board down in Florida but there are as always
00:11:32
conditions of course he is not to be in Florida I always love when they throw this condition out there we our state
00:11:41
will parole you but we don't really want you to stay here but you need to leave I
00:11:45
think a lot of that is not so much get out of our state it's more so this person hired you an attorney this person
00:11:53
we've worked with them to make arrangements to keep you busy once you're out you know you have a place to
00:11:59
stay maybe a place of employment go be there and do the right things one of the stipulations was for him to not kidnap
00:12:07
any more police officers well he's immediately going to go to California and find employment Angela was the one
00:12:15
that secured PJ a job with a billboard company his job would be painting Signs Now nolles found himself finally a free
00:12:26
man and in the big state of California where he planned to marry the woman who was responsible for his new found
00:12:34
freedom and so PJ NES gave Angela a ring Angela was seeking some guidance let's say things were moving way too fast for
00:12:46
this young woman this man you know he's a petty Thief he's an abductor the parole e is he the man that she is meant
00:12:54
to be with to spend her life with so Angela took her question question s to a spiritualist someone she often found
00:13:02
value in the opinion of the spiritualist studied the ring and this was the ring that Paul John nolles gave to her and
00:13:13
with a little bit of a warning you know she's offering up a warning she says to Angela that there is a very dangerous
00:13:22
man that has just entered your life without naming names Angela is pretty certain that she is talking about Paul
00:13:29
John nolles yeah now Captain depending on which newspaper story you read well that changes if Angela heeded the
00:13:38
warning of her spiritual list or not some say this was one of the few occasions where Angela disregarded the
00:13:46
advice of her spiritualist others say it was the driving force for what was to be well
00:13:54
it's we have a background of PJ so we we know what he's capable of so that makes
00:14:01
the spiritualist sound more credible but I think anybody uh whether you believe in that stuff or not if somebody just
00:14:09
entered your life whether you knew their history or not and somebody said to you
00:14:14
there's a very dangerous person that dis entered your life I mean my ears would perk up right right well regardless of
00:14:22
which version is actually correct Paul John nolles was not the man for for Angela kovic or at least she will say
00:14:31
this for now she said she enjoyed n's company he was spiritual believed in God and the afterlife he was smart and had
00:14:42
an interesting sense of humor but he was just not for her the two spent four days
00:14:49
together and regardless of n's stipulation of his parole that he find and maintain employment he never showed
00:14:57
up not once for the job at the sign company that Angela had secured for him so Angela sent him packing after these 4
00:15:06
days he's you know he gone and captain since we both know how much nolles enjoys following the
00:15:15
rules well where do you think he ended up well there's a part of me that's feeling a little bit bad for him right
00:15:20
now because he he basically shows up and once he gets there she's like H you ugly I don't know if it's so much
00:15:29
that I mean she's being warned by the spiritualist and she secured a job for him he's there for 4 days he doesn't go
00:15:36
to the job once this might be this might be the tip that you needed that says hey maybe this
00:15:43
guy's not going to change his ways or maybe he's not who he says he is right you don't know this guy you've been
00:15:49
trading letters with him and now he's there staying with you and he's not doing his he's not keeping up his end
00:15:57
immediately right I'm just just saying that this is the version of now with social media people meet online they're
00:16:05
chatting back and forth some you know it gets serious once somebody buys a plane
00:16:10
ticket once that plane ticket's bought and they arrive in your city they might not
00:16:16
be they might not look much like the the pictures or or or how they portray themselves online yeah and the thing
00:16:24
that sucks for Angela here is she hired him an attorney she bought him the plane
00:16:30
ticket M so she's out some money so as said nolles doesn't care for the rules so of course he ends up right back in
00:16:39
the Sunshine State good old Florida Now by all accounts which really is just Angela's and nolles but he was
00:16:49
devastated by the rejection so he returned to Jacksonville Florida he was soon arrested after stabbing a bartender
00:16:58
during a a fight he was charged with assault and now he's back behind bars this time in a dingy Jacksonville jail
00:17:07
but ever the career criminal nolles managed to pick the lock on his detention cell and escaped this was in
00:17:15
Late July 1974 on the night of his Escape nolles finds himself in a situation of his own
00:17:24
creation where he is on the run and in serious trouble as he has no you know he's so clearly violated his parole and
00:17:32
likely would be facing some very severe and harsh punishments a lengthy prison sentence that is for sure but not only
00:17:41
is he on the run if he's going to remain a free man he is in need of tools and Provisions to keep him out the solution
00:17:50
to this problem he broke into the home of 65-year-old Alice Curtis the tall young and strong fugitive easily
00:17:59
overcame the defenseless 65-year-old woman he tied her up and gagged her he ransacked her home taking money and
00:18:08
valuables and then he stole her car this was a white Dodge Dart Alice was a retired school teacher just looking to
00:18:17
live out her days relaxing in her home and surviving on the nice little life she worked so hard to build for herself
00:18:27
instead she choked to death on her gag nolles ultimately took so much more that night than just a few dollars from her
00:18:37
purse and her white Dodge Dart that night he took everything for the month of August nolles remained on the run and
00:18:46
he did what one would expect to to stay ahead of the law he stole he moved around but one thing that he did not
00:18:54
have to do was kill but he did it anyway this was his choice he did it because he
00:19:01
could not because he had to many that crossed his path during this time lived but some did not so PJ Nolls at this
00:19:10
Point's been on the run for a good month yeah on September 3rd we find our unexpected visitor up north in Yankee
00:19:17
land and our great state Captain the old oh IO this is at a Roadside Bar and restaurant off of Route 75 4 miles north
00:19:29
of Lima Ohio this is at the Scots Inn where nolles is likely drinking himself into a nice one night
00:19:37
coma there he is doing his thing which is drinking and chatting people up he becomes fast friends with a 32-year-old
00:19:47
William Bates Bates is a regular at the Scots in now Bates and nolles could not be more opposites Bates is a hardworking
00:19:57
family man man he's got a great job he's an account executive for the Ohio power
00:20:03
company nolles as we know is a law breaking Man On The Run and his only care seems to be not getting locked up
00:20:11
and how is he going to get his next meal or tank of gas well I can tell you this Captain old
00:20:17
PJ nolles the unexpected visitor ever the opportunist he just spotted his meal ticket and that was William Bates mhm
00:20:26
the bartender would later say that both Bates and an unknown male who the bartender described as a young redheaded
00:20:34
man had several drinks together that evening and left about the same time bates's wife would later report him
00:20:42
missing and police very quickly realized that Not only was Bates gone but his vehicle a white Chevy Impala was missing
00:20:52
as well well it kind of sounds like a guy that goes to a bar often and was sitting at that bar chatting up with
00:20:59
people and thought hey maybe this isn't the life that I want to live I'm out of here I'm out of Dodge that's where my
00:21:06
mind goes too and I think that's where a lot of people's minds would go it's weird the contrast between a missing man
00:21:15
and a missing woman with a missing woman you you fear the worst with a man in his
00:21:20
early 30s who has a good job and a family and his car is gone on top of that that's where you kind of go well
00:21:29
maybe he just maybe he just hit the road well and we know that he's probably a target for PJ because this is part of
00:21:37
his Mo if I might not take you with me but I need a ride I need gas I need supplies yeah well he exactly he needs a
00:21:48
way of staying out on the Run he needs Provisions to keep this journey of his going along mind you he didn't just
00:21:58
into Lima Ohio he drove that poor dead woman's stolen vehicle all the way up to Ohio and he's been driving around for
00:22:07
some time now and this is a very very dangerous man the the thing I think of immediately Captain is that old doors
00:22:16
song where the the line is there's a killer on the road yeah that line makes me think of several others but but very
00:22:25
much so Paul John nolles well there something about if you Google Paul John noes something rock and roll to him he
00:22:35
he almost looks like he could be the singer of The Doors I don't know that they cut your hair for you when you're
00:22:40
in uh Florida State Prison this takes us to September we are now at September 19th
00:22:48
1974 on that day the Reno Evening Gazette reported the following with a headline about halfway down page one
00:22:57
that read couple found slain near Eli the article reads about a vacationing couple who were found shot to death late
00:23:10
that morning in a camper south of Eli Nevada an autopsy was ordered but it appeared both were shot in the temple
00:23:18
with a small caliber gun no gun was found at the scene the victims were identified as EMT Johnson and his wife
00:23:26
Lois both in their 60s the bodies were discovered at the Lake Valley Summit rest stop the bodies were in the pickup
00:23:36
camper Lois was Ned and found under a removable table and EMT was dressed the Sheriff's Office reported no leads but
00:23:45
deputies said Johnson's wallet and her purse were both [Music] missing [Music] these days we have many ways to stay in
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[Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers captain now I was Googling PJ NS hey we don't need to know
00:29:21
everything that you do and uh he kind of reminds me of Eric staltz yeah you said
00:29:28
that to me and that makes total total complete sense back when staltz was a young strapping young lad yeah well our
00:29:37
unexpected visitor Captain he went on to visit both the state of Texas and the state of Alabama in Texas he took
00:29:46
advantage of a stranded motorist whom he abducted raped and murdered in Alabama he killed a
00:29:54
beautician then in October we have the double homicide that we covered in the trailer to this episode that was the
00:30:02
double homicide of mother and daughter Karen and Dawn wine all the way up in Connecticut so when you picture a road
00:30:12
map of this big beautiful country think about what we've covered so far a man who went from Florida we know he went up
00:30:20
to Ohio then out to Nevada then Texas Alabama and Connecticut this guy is all over the shop right and to get there we
00:30:29
we believe he's traveling by car so all those connecting States as well correct and we'll go
00:30:37
into the details of how we know where he is and and and whereabouts in the timeline as well that is really key to
00:30:47
that but something else that is of major importance to our case this takes place
00:30:53
on October 4th this is one of those things that at the time of this event it's a bit of a head scratcher but it
00:31:01
all makes so much sense later when we are able to see the big picture so on October 4th back up in Ohio in a motel
00:31:11
parking lot police discover an abandoned vehicle this is a Dodge Dart now remember this is the vehicle the one
00:31:21
that is missing from Jacksonville Florida belonging to the unsolved murder victim Alice Curtis
00:31:28
so now the sheriff's department up in Li Ohio have a missing man and his vehicle
00:31:33
is missing as well note that's from a month back and now we have an abandoned vehicle from out of state that belongs
00:31:41
to a murder victim now if you're the sheriff's department if you are this man's wife and his family and co-workers
00:31:50
you're starting to go does this abandoned vehicle that belongs to an unsolved murder victim down in Florida
00:31:57
does that have anything to do with this missing man and his missing vehicle it seems like quite the
00:32:04
coincidence throughout October nolles continued to travel driving the highways and likely killing along the way he does
00:32:12
have a close encounter with police when he is pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and of course the officer
00:32:19
just didn't know who he was dealing with so he let nolles go with a warning nolles decides to reach out to his
00:32:27
attorney and sets up a meeting this meeting will be a strange one Captain they meet for a couple of drinks halfway
00:32:35
through the first drink nolles tells his attorney and I believe this is according
00:32:40
to the attorney don't run away but I'm a mass murderer you're having drinks with your
00:32:47
client with somebody you think that you know now his attorney is no idiot he knows that that nolles is not a great
00:32:54
guy that he's broke the law I mean he's represented him so he could become a parole Le mhm but the shocking statement
00:33:04
of don't run away but I'm a mass murderer you got to wonder if you're the other guy do you is your first reaction
00:33:11
is this guy joking or do you know him well enough immediately that you're going holy snap this is serious well on
00:33:20
top of that he's telling you all this stuff and what if he changes his mind at the end of the conversation do you
00:33:26
become victim well and I love these old cases because I love to go back and take
00:33:31
a look at how things have evolved throughout the decades and we're we are talking decades
00:33:37
ago and Paul says to his attorney I'm a mass murderer well I mean you see the uh
00:33:45
how investigation and just terminology alone has changed throughout the years this is before people were using the
00:33:53
term serial killer right this is before any they really even coined that phrase so we have him describing himself as a
00:34:02
mass murderer which today we would describe a mass murderer as somebody who walks into a single situation and takes
00:34:08
out as many people as they possibly can Paul NES is a serial killer in every sense of the word that we know now but
00:34:16
he doesn't know any better back then and he says hey I'm a mass murder well I would kind of actually argue with that
00:34:22
terminology because we we know that he's on the Run from law enforcement and his his murders we don't
00:34:32
know if there was murders before his incarceration so he he almost sounds like a spree murderer to me yeah more of
00:34:43
a spree killer let's get back into it nolles tells his attorney hey by the way I'm a mass murderer well this also kind
00:34:51
of reminds me of the movie American Psycho at the end where he calls I believe his the name is Patrick baitman
00:34:58
and he calls his lawyer and starts confessing to all these crimes you were mentioning Google a minute ago and now
00:35:05
you bring up American Psycho Google sometime on on your own time not on garage time right now Google
00:35:12
sometime uh huie Lewis and I believe it's Weird Al Yankovic they do a scene they recreate a
00:35:21
scene from American Psycho yeah it's like a parody yeah it's it's brilliant okay anyway I apologize for we went down
00:35:30
a road there nolles tells his attorney by the way I'm a mass murderer he wants to tell his attorney in detail who he is
00:35:38
killed where and why noes is of the belief that he that either one of two things is going to happen either the law
00:35:46
will catch up with him and he will be locked up and executed for his crimes or he's going to get killed in the process
00:35:54
of being apprehended either way he wanted a record of everything or at least the
00:36:00
stuff he was willing to admit to so that his family could profit from his murder
00:36:05
spree via a book and movie deal after his death or once he's Behind Bars thoughtful guy huh his attorney is a
00:36:15
pretty smart dude he says don't tell me anything stop close your mouth finish your drink don't tell me anything I
00:36:23
don't want to know anything because if you do tell me all about this then according to what you just told me only
00:36:32
two people will know your secret me and you and one day you may wake up and decide you only want to have one person
00:36:43
know this secret and you'll come and find me and you will kill me right so therefore I'm Paul this is between y all
00:36:51
he don't want to know anything he tells nolles you should write it all down or record your story on
00:37:03
cassettes and then if you like you can you know seal it up and give it to me and I'll save it for later if you do get
00:37:10
picked up and put away in prison or executed or or killed in the process of suicide by cop yeah well we also have
00:37:19
the situation too where nolles told the attorney that it was his idea he wanted to go out in the BL of Glory he wanted
00:37:28
to you know a gunfight shots fired he wanted to go out in the blaze of glory a lot of this to me Captain seems like
00:37:39
there was a bit of an obsession on noll's part in regards to like Bonnie and Clyde you know people who traveled on
00:37:48
the run in this country hitting the highways and killing along the way doing whatever it took to stay free they
00:37:56
weren't going to be locked up you were going to have to you're going to have to kill them you'll never take them alive
00:38:01
kind of situation all of what the attorney suggest write it down or record your story on cazette that is exactly
00:38:11
what happens here Captain they had this meeting on October 24th two days later on October 26th
00:38:19
nolles delivers a sealed envelope with a cassette multiple cassettes inside to his attorney and they on this visit
00:38:28
discussed nothing we should note that the attorney did advise nolles to turn himself in but unfortunately we know
00:38:35
that did not happen then there was a double homicide on November 6th in milleville Georgia detectives did the
00:38:43
best that they could to try to piece everything together 11 alive is a website they did
00:38:50
some cool videos on the nolles case and I really recommend watching these they did an interview with retired
00:38:59
investigator James Josie who worked the double homicide investigation according to reports when
00:39:06
police got there it is said that the place looked like the whole house had been attacked by some kind of and this
00:39:13
is a quote a giant beast from a horror movie Furniture had been overthrown and smashed mirrors were shattered items
00:39:24
were thrown all over the house curtains and upholstery slashed and cut up Mrs Carr was a nurse working a double shift
00:39:35
when she came home she found her husband and daughter dead as said the detective piecing this
00:39:42
thing together the Wikipedia page says no's befriended Carswell Carr he's the husband and father the victim and
00:39:51
invited nolles back to Carr's house to spend the night and then over Dr drinks he stabbed Carr to death and then
00:39:58
strangled Carr's 15-year-old daughter detective Josie who worked the case says look when you ask us what
00:40:08
happened either nolles followed Carswell car home and snuck in or he was invited
00:40:16
back to the house by the victim Josie points out that unfortunately during their
00:40:22
investigation because nolles killed everybody in the house there was no one left ask right the question of how did
00:40:29
this guy end up back at the house but this was a a vicious vicious attack Josie thinks somehow nolles got into the
00:40:37
house again it could be snuck in or invited in but at some point nolles gets a hold of a pair of scissors and stabs
00:40:44
Carswell to death and like I said this was a vicious attack he stabbed the victim almost a countless number of
00:40:52
times and with such force that the tips of the scissors broke off in the victim Josie thinks Carswell would have
00:41:02
obviously been screaming and yelling during the attack and he believes that that would be what woke up the teenage
00:41:09
daughter he says that in his opinion in his expert detective opinion he does not
00:41:15
think that nolles likely knew that the daughter was there or that anybody else was in the house mhm so the screaming
00:41:23
the attack wakes up the daughter she comes down to figure out what's going on noes sees the daughter and then chases
00:41:31
after her she runs back to her bedroom shuts the door locks it and tries to barricade herself in there noes again
00:41:41
the detectives words the reporter's words the home looked like it was attacked by some kind of giant beast
00:41:47
from a horror film nolles manages to bust through the door he strangles the daughter and and it's believed after
00:41:57
murdering her that he attempted to engage in some kind of necrofilia with the victim well this
00:42:04
reminds me of like the rage with Bundy and right and this almost like um morphine from a actual possibly Charming
00:42:16
individual to a vicious animal and that's why that picture of Bundy from from court is such a popular
00:42:26
and well recognized picture the one where he's getting ready to just slam his hand on the on the table because
00:42:35
everybody in the courtroom was saying hey here you have this very neat well-kept groomed well-groomed guy who
00:42:43
seems to be smart in representing himself at trial seems to have it all put together and then boom in that
00:42:52
second for that instance right there everyone in the court recognized and noticed and saw what was really behind
00:43:01
the eyes behind the skin once you peel that layer back underneath there was a monster and once he's out he he he is
00:43:09
uncontrollable pay no attention to the man behind the curtain So eventually nolles is going to flee this scene right
00:43:16
but not before stealing jewelry and whatever other valubles he can find now not too long after these murders a store
00:43:25
clerk reported to police that a tall red-haired man matching n's description was making
00:43:33
purchases with Carswell cars credit card so police pretty early on have a good idea who they're looking for this guy is
00:43:44
on the run and we believe that we can track him and Trail him through the vehicles that he is stealing and then
00:43:52
leaving along the way and he's also using victims credit cards and some of their stolen property and stolen money
00:44:01
to buy him things like gas and and food and cigarettes and so forth while he's out running all over the map MH also
00:44:10
that month nolles picked up some hitchhikers this was Edward Hillyard and Debbie
00:44:16
Griffin Edward was eventually found dead in some woods and Debbie is believed to
00:44:21
have been killed by nolles as well unfortunately to this day over 40 years later her body has never been recovered
00:44:32
another interesting little stop along the way in our story and timeline here Captain is noes as said he doesn't kill
00:44:42
everyone he comes across in fact some people he befriends them and becomes friends with them and one person the
00:44:51
story goes like this while bar hopping in Atlanta Georgia on November 8th Paul John nolles met British journalist Sandy
00:45:01
Fox impressing her with his looks which she says and I think this is quite the stretch MH but whatever maybe I'm just
00:45:13
jealous but she says his look yeah I'm real jealous she says that his looks were a cross between Robert Redford and
00:45:22
Ryan O'Neal I could see that that's top shelf right there top shelf for a redhe head yeah so
00:45:30
they spent the night together she was sitting at the bar by herself now mind you she's in a different she's in a
00:45:38
foreign country she's over here working uh she was on assignment and I believe originally she was on assignment in New
00:45:46
York maybe for the times and whatever that didn't work out or they sent her down to Georgia on a different
00:45:53
assignment somehow she ends up in Georgia by herself at this bar the way she describes it is she was kind of
00:46:01
checking out nolles from afar he's sitting there drinking and she thinks that he must have caught her checking
00:46:09
him out and at some point he makes his way over starts talking her up now one thing I will say that does seem to be
00:46:17
quite Charming about this n's character is that at least two women Fox included said that nolles would be quick
00:46:28
to ask a woman to dance which is which is kind of a lost thing people don't men don't do that so
00:46:35
much anymore I don't even know that they did that a whole lot back in the 70s but
00:46:39
no the the bar that she described to in her book is not described as like a dance club or anything like that it
00:46:46
really sounds to me like it's the hotel lobby bar a lot of businessmen and people sitting around after work
00:46:53
drinking and she catches his eye he comes over chats with her for a while and eventually that leads to him asking
00:47:01
her to dance she said that they spent the night together now as said I said her book she went on to write two books
00:47:11
about her experience with Paul John nolles and one of them's called killing time I've read Killing Time it's a great
00:47:19
True Crime book I love the old ones this one was from 1977 in the book what's what's funny to
00:47:26
me though I've I've never read one of those um romance novels that have the risque covers you know with a lot of
00:47:36
Flesh on the on the cover but I can only imagine how they read a portion of her book Killing Time reads a like a very
00:47:45
graphic love making scenes little sex well she says SE up in here she says he was unable to perform H so not much sex
00:47:57
a lot of buildup and no no real ability to seal the deal let's say yeah I'm Bad Boys Captain limpy pants so that's
00:48:07
always brought up some questions about nolles one she says look push the psychology
00:48:15
aside the nights that she hung out with nolles he was drinking a lot mhm and she
00:48:21
said that in her experience throughout life she had seen many a good time go down the throats of men who are just
00:48:31
drinking and drinking and drinking I don't know if that's the right terminology well I thought her book's
00:48:36
well written and I like I like the way she phrased some things so if you push psychology aside that's a excellent
00:48:43
explanation but then you take the psychology back into it and you have to wonder and we've seen this with other
00:48:51
serial killers we've seen this with rapist serial rapist where sometimes these men are not able to perform with a
00:49:00
willing participant right and we do know that there was suspicion about possible
00:49:05
necrophilia with the victim that we spoke about earlier M well again if if sex is the motivation for these crimes
00:49:14
or these murders then we know that this individual is probably desensitized uh to say the least it
00:49:21
seems weird to me because I feel like we're in a in one of those odd situations look with serial killers and
00:49:29
sex and fantasy and violence are kind of all really wrapped up into one for a lot
00:49:34
of these guys I don't think that that's too far off here from Paul johnon NOS but I I feel like that's not the single
00:49:43
motivating factor for these murders I almost feel like what you pointed out earlier the Spree killer the guy on the
00:49:50
run I think that is more of the appeal for this guy that seems to to be what he's into he likes the The Thrill of the
00:49:59
kill he likes the thrill of meeting a victim and he likes taking whatever he decides to take from
00:50:11
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