00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details Rosetta Stone
00:00:32
is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about
00:00:37
memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now
00:00:44
Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever
00:00:51
for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a
00:00:58
GameChanger [Music] [Music] n welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:43
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that tried to amend his carnivorous habits here he is the
00:01:51
captain yeah it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
00:01:58
friend this week we are very excited to be featuring hellc cap by our friends over
00:02:07
at brewog the Brewers at brew doog and death metal great Iron Maiden have joined forces to create Hellcat a 6% ABV
00:02:15
India Pale logger Hellcat is where the power of citrus and hops Collide on the top of a malty backbone garage grade 3
00:02:24
and 3/4 bottle caps out of five and a big cheers goes out to our friends that join forces with us here in the garage
00:02:31
this week first up cheers to Michael driving slow on the motorway in bokam Germany and a big shout to Tom and
00:02:38
Santiago here's a double cheers to Colin and Kelsey and kotle Hawaii a big shout
00:02:42
to Diane and Eerie PA here's a longdistance cheers Captain to bana in Copenhagen Denmark and last but
00:02:51
certainly not least we have Elizabeth and Cedar City Utah everybody we just mentioned they went to our website True
00:02:59
Crime garage.com and they contributed to this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah BW
00:03:05
are you in beer run sign up for off the Record but only if you're nasty and that
00:03:14
is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:20
[Music] crime no no no no [Music] so no no no no no no no no this week in the garage we tell the tale
00:04:04
of a promising and popular college student one that has seen plenty of academic success in our True Crime Story
00:04:11
a holiday is coming up which means a break in the college action so this will be a chance for our successful student
00:04:19
and their classmates to take some time off finally getting the opportunity to take some time and spend it on oneself
00:04:26
with a trip this is a chance to take a break and get away excited for the break and
00:04:33
for their trip out of state our student decides to spend an evening out to celebrate going out to dinner and then a
00:04:41
little drinking and partying afterward evening drinks turn into late night fun and late night fun turns into the small
00:04:49
hours of the next day it's 2 a.m. and things are wrapping up winding down and it's time to go home and and then poof
00:05:01
just like that our college student disappears some say into the night and others say Into Thin Air longtime
00:05:10
listeners of this show are most certainly thinking of Brian schaer a promising Ohio State med student gearing
00:05:17
up for a vacation with his girlfriend out with his friends and having a great time when
00:05:24
suddenly he's gone and now it's been over 15 years and he's still gone still missing one night he walked into a bar
00:05:35
and 15 years go by and his name and photos of him are still listed on the Charlie projects website and the all
00:05:43
missing persons database maintained by the Ohio attorney general Dave Yos office but we won't be telling you the
00:05:51
tale of Brian Schaefer again this week because sadly there is another student that very strangely exper experienced a
00:06:00
quite similar fate a fate of possibly never being seen alive again or simply put lost but never
00:06:09
found this week we will be covering another missing student from another Ohio College
00:06:17
campus Judy Martins went out partying with friends on the night of May 23rd and come morning she was gone and
00:06:26
quite possibly lost and never to be found this is true crime garage and this is the case of Judy
00:06:36
[Music] [Music] Martins Judy Martins was born on July 15th 1955 to Proud parents Arthur and Dolores
00:06:58
she would be the eldest of three children all three children were pretty close in age and Judy and her sister
00:07:04
Nancy had a tight Bond Judy was born and raised in the nice community of Avon Lake Ohio which is up near the Cleveland
00:07:13
area on the shores of Lake Erie Judy graduated from Avon Lake High School in 1973 and she enrolled to go to school at
00:07:21
Ohio University in Athens but things changed a couple years in and she transferred to Kent State University
00:07:28
yeah the rumors that she was getting homesick sadly Kent State University is mostly known for the notorious Kent
00:07:35
State shootings also known as the May 4 Massacre this was the killings of four Kent State students and the wounding of
00:07:44
nine others all unarmed when 28 Ohio National Guard soldiers fired approximately 67 rounds at the group of
00:07:54
students 10 Soldiers and Nixon coming there Captain I'm not a c but as said Judy enrolled in Ohio University where
00:08:02
she completed two years of college after that she moved back home and eventually
00:08:07
enrolled at Kent State where she moved into one of the dorms Judy was seeking an art major minoring in women's studies
00:08:17
and she told her parents and fellow students she wanted to be a therapist or counselor and in 1978 she was well on
00:08:25
her way she was completing her schooling at Kent State and she was a resident staff assistant at one of the all female
00:08:32
dormitories this is the ingelman hall dorm and she was a volunteer counselor at the campus's pregnancy information
00:08:40
center and that brings us up to the details of when Judy went missing yeah so the night in question here captain or
00:08:47
the days in question here will be the later part of May 23rd or the early hours of May 24th
00:08:57
1978 now here is the The Disappearance as reported by The Columbus Dispatch which is one of the bigger newspapers
00:09:04
here in Ohio and we will pause periodically to add in our own two cents or in my case one cent but the dispatch
00:09:12
article says Judy was last seen at about 2:30 a.m. May 24th 1978 Witnesses told police she left a
00:09:22
party headed for ingelman Hall only 4 to 6 minutes away on foot okay stepping in here Captain she was at
00:09:33
Dunbar Hall this is an all male dormatory building all dongs she was living alone at Engelman Hall an all
00:09:41
female dorm now the article that we are citing says 4 to Six Minutes on foot the
00:09:48
best report that I think I could find out there states that it was 25 yards from door too so two football field bus
00:09:59
is of a walk late at night by herself now this might be conflicting information information I get is it's
00:10:08
about 100 yards but the issue becomes that there's two entrance ways there's a front entrance and a back entrance so
00:10:15
maybe that is why there's a discrepancy on how many yards away it is yes and neither of us have made this walk
00:10:22
ourselves so obviously we're going off of different reports from different people but I have been on the campus
00:10:28
though the information I'm citing here came from the chief of police at Kent State University but again this is an
00:10:36
old case and some of this information is 30 40 years old either way it's a very small distance correct well and one
00:10:46
critical thing here that I think we should point out regardless if it's one football field or two football fields in
00:10:52
distance is that we have a situation where Judy made this trip before you know this is a a common thing that she
00:11:03
would have done she was uh an evening outgoing person she was very sociable one thing that I think we should also
00:11:11
mention here is a very general statement of her personality and I think this really sums her up very nicely is it was
00:11:21
said by her friends that Judy was very sociable and very much the life of the party after hour hours but she was
00:11:30
incredibly responsible she was never late to school never missed school never missed work never late to work she was
00:11:39
topnotch go-getter during the day and sociable in the evening time so again a short walk by herself the middle of the
00:11:48
night and a trip that she had done on foot several times she was also known to ride a bicycle around on campus and the
00:11:58
bike is mentioned throughout our story and will be mentioned throughout our story but it was never mentioned I could
00:12:04
never find any mention of this bicycle on the statement of how she was getting home that night it's always been stated
00:12:11
that she was walking home that night now Judy was wearing a curly red wig over her long
00:12:19
dark hair she was wearing I believe you said call it Galo style jeans a brown and yellow blouse beige trench coat
00:12:28
brown boots and carrying a large white imitation leather shoulder bag okay so the wig and her get up for that night
00:12:37
she was out and she was partying with friends so she was definitely playing dress up here that night later after she
00:12:46
was reported missing several people would say that they saw her that night and Judy was dressed like a hooker these
00:12:54
are their words and I don't think that they mean that to paint Judy in any kind of negative light here captain again I
00:13:03
believe she was just playing dress up that night so maybe she was telling people that she was dressing like a
00:13:09
hooker that night well and that style of jeans would have been popular in the 70s think of a bell bottom but instead
00:13:17
of them being tight and then flaring out at the bottom they just they just flaring out all over they're flaring out
00:13:24
all over but they kind of look like bell bottoms at the at the bottom and that's
00:13:28
a good description and another good description is that when we say or she said or her friends said she was dressed
00:13:35
like a hooker that night this is not like the movie Pretty Woman street walker type clothing stuff that is very
00:13:42
revealing this is basically funny looking jeans in a button-up shirt MH the following day Judy was supposed to
00:13:51
travel home to Avon Lake to get her new car when she didn't come home or didn't call home by that Friday Dolores her
00:14:00
mother called Judy's room every hour without success yeah so she was supposed to go back to pick up her car but she
00:14:08
was going to go on a trip yeah so that is one thing that I wanted to jump in here with on that story right because
00:14:17
this is one of the confusing portions of the story let me finish up the next two
00:14:22
sentences of this article real quick this is again is from the information from The Columbus Dispatch it says a
00:14:28
fellow student officially reported Judy missing on May 26th please note that date May 26th which is would be 2 days
00:14:36
after the last sighting or supposed last sighting of Judy when her room was searched nothing was missing so she left
00:14:46
behind her glasses clothing books and cosmetics now back to the double story there of picking up the
00:14:54
car Andor going on a trip so again captain and I found this to be a little troubling the how the how it was noticed
00:15:03
that Judy was missing because I've seen these two different stories or different
00:15:08
versions of What Judy was supposed to be doing on the 24th or the 25th and this was one of my questions when I met with
00:15:18
one of the law enforcement agencies still investigating Judy's case so there's some good news there right this
00:15:26
case is still very active mhm you mentioned a trip to New York so there was two stories one that she's going
00:15:34
home to pick up a car the other story is she was going with two of her friends from Kent State to go to out of state to
00:15:41
go to New York and I asked law enforcement since we know that Judy didn't have a car on campus she rode
00:15:48
that bike most places and her family says her family's words were that she was returning home to get her car or a
00:15:57
new car so my question for law enforcement was well who was going to drive her to get to
00:16:06
Avon Lake to retrieve that vehicle because obviously I think that would be my number one suspect because whoever
00:16:14
that was was not the same person that reported her missing to my knowledge now the Memorial Day weekend was coming up
00:16:22
and Judy Martins had planned a trip to New York with two friends and I believe some of the confusion here is possibly
00:16:31
that maybe both stories are accurate that she would be doing both as we are talking about having five or six days
00:16:39
when she could achieve both of these events yeah so possibly my schedule's lighter at this point let me go pick up
00:16:48
my car I'll bring it back to campus and then when we go on the road trip we're going to take my vehicle yeah cuz what I
00:16:54
was told was no uh we didn't have any information that she was coming home but again the article in the dispatch those
00:17:03
are the family's words so that portion there has to be some truth to that to me and then the law enforcement version is
00:17:11
that New York trip has always been something that they were they were investigating the thing here though we
00:17:18
need to remind the listeners that are not familiar with the state of Ohio we're talking about an hour and 15 to
00:17:23
maybe an hour and 30 minute drive from the college campus to Avon Lake so this is something that she would if she was
00:17:33
going to go home she would need someone to drive her there now we have Judy's siblings weighing in in the article and
00:17:42
saying wearing contact lenses when she vanished they say no way would she have left her eyeglasses behind this is Steve
00:17:50
Martins her younger brother and saying that she rarely went anywhere without makeup according to her sister so
00:17:58
remember remember it was quickly and easily determined that nothing was missing from Judy's dorm room leaving
00:18:05
behind her glasses clothing books and cosmetics now anywhere you would see Judy's case you
00:18:14
will absolutely see this portion of the case information repeated as there were several outside sources that would later
00:18:21
say Judy left on her own the family says no her family says no and I say no but we will examine the mysterious details
00:18:31
of those claims as our case unfolds okay so she's at this party and when we say party loose terms right cuz there it
00:18:41
wasn't like there was hundreds of people there she was in another dorm having a couple drinks with people and hanging
00:18:48
out there correct and I think to call it a party really is is something that just
00:18:54
confuses the matter a little bit more I I would not describe any of these going on to be any type of party they may have
00:19:02
had a drink or two and and may have called it that or maybe she went to the dorm thinking she was going to a party
00:19:12
and it was just as you said hanging out with a couple of people it was a little bit of uh room jumping or or going from
00:19:20
dorm to dorm and we have some more details on that now the article goes on and says the week after she goes missing
00:19:31
her family the Martin family had a sitdown meeting with Kent State president Brad Golding and they say that
00:19:40
they left this meeting unimpressed Judy's sister Nancy said she believes that the University was still
00:19:47
rebuilding its reputation after the May 4 1970 incident and didn't want any type
00:19:54
of negative PR about their college camp campus or their college right and Steve Martins agrees saying quote what was
00:20:04
disappointing was the way that the investigation played out the university didn't want a whole lot of press end
00:20:10
quote and we've talked about this with Brian schaer's case but it's more obvious here isn't it no well no because
00:20:17
it's a different time period obviously back then they're going hey we don't want if we talk about this too much
00:20:24
we're going to get more newspapers we don't want the big newspaper to talk about this and Brian Schaefer's case
00:20:31
when you looked up medical student missing Ohio State it was flooded with the first few pages of Google that's all
00:20:38
you could find within a few days once you typed in Ohio State student missing it didn't show up the University was
00:20:48
able to bury it in Google searches and so just look if you're in a state and you hear about a college student going
00:20:55
missing Google it and you'll find within a week that university has took control
00:21:02
of the Google searches to make sure that those stories get buried so when Johnny
00:21:09
from Iowa gets a letter saying he can go to the Ohio State University they want to make sure when that parent Googles or
00:21:19
searches for the Ohio State University that something from the actual University pops up well yeah your kid's
00:21:26
going to go off and be living elsewhere for the first time not under your roof you don't want Mom and Dad or Mom or Dad
00:21:35
separately or together don't want to send you know their their little their young their daughter or their son off to
00:21:42
what they believe might be a dangerous place right and if the first thing that they Google about that college ising
00:21:50
orur then some red flags get thrown up there Arthur and Dolores speaking of parents the Martins kept Faith according
00:22:00
to this article kept total faith in the police Nancy said and never hired a private investigator because they
00:22:06
thought it would make the police upset Nancy believes investigators assumed Judy left on her own and broke contact
00:22:16
with the family that's a mistake I'm going to say this I I base my reputation on this you have a missing person case
00:22:26
immediately hire a private investigator but you're not trying to hinder the investigation at all you're just going
00:22:33
to be doing your due diligence and the thing here in this case Captain I see a situation where the case got hindered
00:22:42
the investigation got messed up very early on and it became a confusing and complicated case very early on
00:22:51
unnecessarily like there were steps that could have been made that that would have made this investigation a little
00:22:57
easier here and speaking of which let's dive into the investigation and search for Judy because Judy leaving a party at
00:23:05
2 or 230 a.m. to walk a short distance home and never making it there is obviously not the whole story there is
00:23:13
much much more detail to it than that but the investigation really was just a poorly conducted investigation from the
00:23:22
beginning and this was for several reasons the first was this was really an uphill climb in my opinion for the Kent
00:23:30
State Police because years later and this would have been uh from information I found from 1983 so 5 years after she
00:23:40
went missing we have uh Kent State Police Chief Robert Malone saying on record this is the only case that we have had
00:23:50
at Kent State of a missing person who could not be accounted for he says I know it's the only one since 197 73 when
00:23:58
I came on board so now a 10year span 73 to 83 according to Robert Malone now we need to keep in mind Robert Malone was
00:24:07
not the police chief in 78 when when Judy went missing but he goes on to say with 177,000 students we get a
00:24:16
lot of missing persons reports here but there always seems to be an explanation so think about that 10year period when
00:24:24
this man has worked there 177,000 students we get a lot of missing persons reports she's the only one in 10 years
00:24:33
that we couldn't find out where she went or what happened to her so what happened
00:24:38
to Judy on the night of May 24th 1978 when Judy apparently left the party at dunar Hall on her way home to Engelman
00:24:47
Hall first Judy lived alone so that caused a delay to report her missing she was missing and unaccounted for
00:24:58
but just no one knew so she was not reported missing until the 26th so that's two days now local police
00:25:06
went to Judy's dorm and they find everything as it should be nothing's missing no sign of Foul Play no sign of
00:25:14
a struggle no forced entry in fact there are a lot of theories out there in this
00:25:21
case but I could not find one single Source I spoke to three different people that know this case better than anyone
00:25:29
else no Source says that Judy returned to her dorm that night no case expert says that she made it home that night
00:25:38
and I could not find anything to suggest that she in my opinion made it home that
00:25:44
night after going out so whatever happened to Judy that night it looks like it happened sometime
00:25:51
after this party and before she could arrive at her dorm she's not reported missing for 2 days and then her family
00:25:58
is notified after she's reported missing Judy's mom says she was calling Judy's dorm often looking for her so at least
00:26:06
we have the night in question narrowed down to a matter of a couple of hours yeah and Captain I would put that window
00:26:14
of time when something went down something bad happened to Judy between 11:00 p.m. on the
00:26:22
23rd and maybe as late as 3:00 a.m. on the 24th so some additional issues with the
00:26:30
initial investigation as we said the Memorial Day long weekend yeah was the weekend after she went missing most of
00:26:38
the students have left the campus by the time police start looking into this so they have no one to question or they're
00:26:48
missing a lot of the people that they could question and not really anyone to help fill in the blanks here within the
00:26:55
first couple of days and they just just didn't take it seriously at first and look often we all
00:27:02
become products of our environment and the environment at Kent State in the late 70s according to the police chief
00:27:10
said that they were receiving two missing persons cases a week on average and in every case up to Judy's case the
00:27:18
person was accounted for within hours or days of the report so you can almost see how the police themselves fall
00:27:27
victim to this environment and the police likely thought that this would be the case here as well usually someone
00:27:34
turns up they stayed with a boyfriend or a girlfriend or they went home back home
00:27:40
unexpectedly now regardless because think about how many missing persons cases turn into homicide cases right
00:27:48
right well your homicide investigation will go much better if you are not starting from scratch once you figure it
00:27:54
out or decide that it is in fact a homicide case rather than a missing person's case so what sort of things can
00:28:01
one do well it's interviewing persons and properly recording their statements you can take photographs of her dorm and
00:28:10
belongings take photographs of all of the last known places she is believed to have been and photos of the people she
00:28:18
was with did any of them have any noticeable scratches or injuries none of that happened in this case so really
00:28:26
this is just an all out difficult situation for the investigation as we can view it 40 years later and to make
00:28:35
matters worse according to Kent State they lost or destroyed the case File oh that's aw this is due to some [ __ ]
00:28:43
records protocol hey now and it's believed in the year 2000 that they got rid of the file in the year 2000 now
00:28:52
sometimes too in these older cases Captain you find that the lead detective took the file home or the police chief
00:28:58
took the file home but for whatever reason when the case was being looked at again and this would have been in the
00:29:05
last 10 to maybe 15 years when they were looking at this case Again by a different agency other than Kent State
00:29:12
Police well that's when they learned that the Kent State Police file no longer exist on this case but some smart
00:29:20
people did do some smart moves one Judy was reported missing in two jurisdictions right she was reported
00:29:28
missing where she was going to school and two she was reported where she was from so she's reported missing in Avon
00:29:36
Lake as well so Avon Lake was investigating this case as well and they had a file of their own that in air
00:29:46
quotes survived and we managed to get a copy of the file that still [Music] exist
00:30:01
[Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
00:30:07
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:30:13
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:30:19
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:30:27
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:30:34
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:30:40
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:30:47
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
00:30:56
hp.com Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been
00:31:04
using the rap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and
00:31:10
it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their
00:31:17
lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check
00:31:24
out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger at Consumer Cellular you get the same exact coverage as the largest carriers
00:31:33
but for up to half the cost same thing up to half the cost up to half the cost for the same thing 50% the money for
00:31:40
100% the same thing I hope I'm making myself clear Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call
00:31:47
us at 1888 Freedom half the cost savings based on cost of consumer cellular single line 5 GB data plan with
00:31:53
unlimited talk and text compared to lowest cost single line postpaid unlimited talk text and data plan
00:31:56
offered by T-Mobile in Verizon May [Music] 2023 all right we're back cheers mates
00:32:12
cheers to you Captain cheers to all the fine fine people out there so the investigative timeline as laid out in
00:32:20
the police file is as follows and it's going to start as early as late April or early May and that's their exact
00:32:29
statement here that in late April or early May of 1978 Jim young visits Judy at KSU they are intimate per Jim Jim young
00:32:42
is or was Judy's longtime on again and off again boyfriend he was considered a suspect in this case now we need to note
00:32:52
that Jim is Judy's boyfriend from Avon Lake not Kent State he does not attend Kent State right he says their breakup
00:33:02
was pretty much mutual and it basically involved that they didn't see each other
00:33:07
very much they lived in two different locations and so they both agreed to break up it sounded like that Judy had
00:33:15
some other concerns maybe Jim partied too much or drank too much but According to Jim the breakup was mutual and I
00:33:23
couldn't really find any family or friends to go against that idea that the make up
00:33:29
the breakup was Mutual yeah but just because it's mutual at at one time doesn't mean it stayed that way he did
00:33:36
say that he would visit her on occasion at Kent State and when she was home on break or during the summertime the two
00:33:45
of them would hang out this is probably information backing up the idea that everybody puts forward that they
00:33:53
were on again off again well and also because she's resident staff that means she has her own room and she would have
00:34:00
been basically the hall monitor for her floor or a section of her floor so it it
00:34:08
does suck that we don't have a roommate that is able to back up Jim's claims what we do have though I I want to kind
00:34:16
of go out of my way to point this out is it sounds to me Captain like her family
00:34:21
her her remaining family and the friends that she had at the time MH are backing
00:34:27
up to police what this young man was saying now we should though make mental note of two things one his name because
00:34:35
we're going to be going through different names and different people during this
00:34:40
timeline but we should also make mental note that he was considered a suspect very early on in this case so the things
00:34:47
that he says or suspicions around him as you're pointing out Captain are important to this story but this brings
00:34:54
us to May 19th now this will be the last last day that Judy's mother talks to her
00:35:00
daughter on the phone and then we have May 23rd so note she disappeared on either the 23rd or 24th this is the last
00:35:08
time that Jim young the former boyfriend or John Young says that he talked with Judy on the phone now at 1:00 1 p.m.
00:35:19
approximately that afternoon James cratek reports seeing Judy in the prince Hall cafeteria
00:35:28
sitting with a another student named Kevin Greer Greer states that they were sitting in eating with Steve uh another
00:35:37
classmate named Steve no last name given and that kic borrowed coupons or meal tickets at this time from Judy Judy told
00:35:49
him to pay her back as she would be needing them by the end of the year I do want to point this out like this is just
00:35:56
a another one of those little tidbits one of those little indicators along the way that she was making plans she
00:36:06
probably wasn't planning on taking off or at least a statement of hey yeah I'll give you a meal ticket or two to cover
00:36:13
you for today but I need these back before the end of the year well it's similar like with the Brian shaver case
00:36:19
a lot of people go well why would Brian go missing from a bar when you look at the
00:36:25
Judy martins's case okay she leaves this party let's say roughly around 2 but nobody was in her dorm room for multiple
00:36:34
days correct so we don't know if she made it back to her dorm room so maybe she made it back and maybe on her answer
00:36:42
machine if there was one she had a message from some guy that she had a crush on it that said come out to
00:36:48
California and she decided to leave without a car but we don't know that all we know is that there wasn't really
00:36:56
really anything Disturbed in her dorm room right and just pointing out that there's nothing to indicate up to this
00:37:03
point that she wasn't planning on doing anything other than attending school for
00:37:07
the remainder of the year right so this brings us to about 300 p.m. that day when Judy leaves a note for Charles
00:37:17
Neville in his room and the note says that she stopped by when he was not there now I'm not certain here Captain
00:37:25
but from what I G Charles is a popular dude and may have been considered quite the catch back then so I'm not sure if
00:37:34
they were just friends or if there was something there but according to the investigation she dropped by roughly
00:37:42
around 300 p.m. that afternoon leaving a note for Charles that evening Judy goes
00:37:48
to dinner with one of her good friends and her name is Robin after dinner this is approximately 8:30 p.m Judy leaves
00:37:57
her friend Michelle Morgan's room telling her that she was going to see Charles Neville she said she might stop
00:38:05
back at the room after leaving Charles's place now Charles lives in the dorm rooms as almost everybody that we're
00:38:13
going to be mentioning did at the time right Kent State for example is not a highly commuted College a lot of a good
00:38:22
majority of the students live on campus at approximately 11: p.m. am this is where I think I really start to call
00:38:29
things into question but this is the information that the police have collected over the years at
00:38:34
approximately 11: p.m. Judy leaves her friend Robin's room in Engelman Hall dormitory she tells her that she is
00:38:43
going to Charles Neville's room after that Judy arrives at 233 Dunbar Hall stays there with Charles Neville and
00:38:52
John Becky this is in John's room Judy removes the wig sunglasses and trench coat at this time remember she's
00:39:02
playing dress up that night again around 11: p.m. approximately this is per Kevin
00:39:08
Greer who we've already mentioned Judy stops by to see if Bernie cafrey would be there but he's not home so she talks
00:39:17
to Bernie's roommate Leo robe for a minute or two and then goes to Charles Neville's room Leo r
00:39:27
says Judy was dressed quote like a hooker okay so the important thing here though to me Captain is now we have
00:39:35
multiple independent Witnesses placing our missing person in Dunbar Hall in the Dunbar hall building this is the male
00:39:45
dormatory yeah this is a all male dormatory so that doesn't seem to be really in question right we can question
00:39:52
what was going on or how things went down after this but it's not a question that she was there in that building at
00:40:01
11:00 and a little bit afterward yeah but here's what we don't know is we we're getting this information from
00:40:06
Robin right no this information is coming from all kinds of different sources independent sources so these
00:40:13
this is statements from Charles from Robin from James every person that we've mentioned so far on the 23rd all this
00:40:23
information is coming from them yeah but if you that's why you should let somebody
00:40:28
finish talking but this information is coming from Robin it's coming from Charles right what we don't know is what
00:40:37
were Charles initial statements I'd be interested to know that I'd be interested to know if they said hey well
00:40:45
we we believe that she visited you on the night she went missing and he said uh I don't remember or U I know I don't
00:40:53
think she did and then they got information from Robin and said hey well we got information from Robin that she
00:41:00
headed towards your dorm and then we got information from this other person that
00:41:04
she was here and then he comes forward you see what I'm saying like we we know what their statements are but we don't
00:41:13
know exactly how they got them yeah that's that's cool and the thing here is it's not really them coming forward you
00:41:22
know I I I know what you mean by that but I always kind of hate that statement right right because it sounds like they
00:41:27
went up and called the police station or knocked on the the front door and said hey I got a story to tell this is Kent
00:41:34
State Police going around and asking people did you see anything on the 23rd did you see anything on the 24th and
00:41:43
you're right we don't know the exact wording of questions that were first fired at any of these individuals but
00:41:50
from my understanding and the way that the information that we received reads to me is that these are all their
00:41:59
initial statements when first asked about that night and if anything changed when they
00:42:06
were questioned at a later date right it's noted in the information as well but also what's interesting too is we
00:42:14
have this isolated space that you would think and and we were kind of talking about this
00:42:21
off air before we started recording was this is 78 smoking in the 70s you could smoke in
00:42:30
the hospital buildings not all hospitals but a lot of them you could you were smoking in a lot of the schools so I if
00:42:38
I had to bet make a wager here I would put my money on smoking was allowed in the dorms yes and and I think that
00:42:46
becomes a big key here because if it wasn't allowed but there was still a lot of smokers that you would have a a
00:42:54
gathering outside of the male dorm room even though it'd be late but you know college students stay up pretty late so
00:43:03
there I think there would have been more eyewitnesses so if somebody would say hey there were smoking in the dorm rooms
00:43:08
I'd go well there's probably not going to be a bunch of people gathered outside or less people gathered outside to be
00:43:14
eyewitnesses once she left the all male dorm rooms well smoking or non-smoking aside you're really hitting on something
00:43:22
I think that's important here Captain where you're right this is May it was a warm night that
00:43:29
night she wasn't the only one going out and having a good time that night there's a lot of people going out and
00:43:35
having a good time that night and who knows how late they stayed up we know that there was not much schooling or
00:43:41
academic activity that was going to be taking place over the next several days so this was a time to kind of let loose
00:43:48
and if you were going to stay up or stay out till 3:00 or 4: in the morning this
00:43:52
sounds to me like this was a good night to do it at approximately mid night John
00:43:57
Becky who we've mentioned already says that he knocks on Charles Neville's door he and a friend are going to the 711 for
00:44:06
those that don't know what a 7-Eleven is it's a like a little convenience store little gas station also people know it
00:44:11
as Heaven There You Go Becky Returns the wig sunglasses and coat to Judy at this time per his
00:44:20
statement Becky reports that Judy is in quote good mental and physical condition
00:44:26
at this time May 24th at approximately 2:30 a.m. Charles Nevel says that this is the time that Judy leaves his room
00:44:38
now a weird note in our timeline and there are going to be several of these as we get further from her disappearance
00:44:47
but this is the first one and this takes place on May 24th so by all of the stories the information that we've
00:44:55
received in every story out there she goes missing sometime after leaving that male dormatory at 2:30
00:45:04
a.m. right this brings us to 1:30 p.m. on that same day so if all those stories are right she's already missing just not
00:45:13
reported missing at this time right we have another individual who is named David horning David says or reports to
00:45:21
police and this is where I think it's appropriate to say comes forward it sounds like this man came forward and
00:45:28
reports seeing a girl who matched Judy's description and clothing at the bus stop
00:45:35
near a sandwich shop he says a large yellow car pulled near the Stop and the girl either got in or was pulled in he
00:45:43
was not sure the car then abruptly pulled from the curb and went to the farle Lane it was then heading westbound
00:45:53
on Route 59 and I'm not saying that this this individual is lying whatsoever but it's not clear that he's
00:46:01
stating that he knew her before she went missing right there a guy that came forward after when the
00:46:09
gr hey we're looking for this girl he goes well I saw a girl that looks similar I would hold a lot more weight
00:46:18
to this eyewitness if he said I'm friends with her I'm friends with Judy yeah and I saw her get into a
00:46:27
car then at that point what do we know what we know is that she went back to her dorm she probably fell you know she
00:46:35
slept in her own bed the next day she took off with somebody around 100 p.m. 1:30 p.m. but this guy doesn't know her
00:46:47
he's not friends with her so he's going he well she look like the similar person
00:46:53
and so we have no clue if she ever made it back to her dorm room well and one thing that's really tricky in this case
00:47:02
here and again I mean we can keep circling around this but but I've not seen any information to suggest that she
00:47:10
ever made it home that night ever anywhere by by any of the investigating agencies any of her friends or family no
00:47:18
one's that seems to be one of the furthest things from speculation well I remember at some point and I could be
00:47:25
wrong but some of my buddies would live in like a all male dorm and then you'd have the all female dorm and then you
00:47:32
have a co-ed dorm but some of the dorms you actually had to sign in even though like you live there like you had to sign
00:47:41
in because it was past like midnight and they didn't have maybe somebody on guard
00:47:46
to see who was coming into the buildings yeah and that is very smart of you because that's one thing I was thinking
00:47:53
as well like would would there be a curfew because this was during the week would there be a curfew to get in or or
00:48:00
would you at least have to sign in or sign out and what I was told now again we're being told this 40 years later so
00:48:09
we can't hop in the DeLorean and and know 100% but from what I was told was that it was a pretty
00:48:16
casual laid-back atmosphere on campus that year and maybe even years after that I don't know if her going missing
00:48:25
changed some of that here becomes the problem with her going missing was like I said she's basically like the chaperon
00:48:33
on her floor so she would she would be one of those individuals if some other girl went missing on her floor they' be
00:48:42
going right to her right right to Judy and saying hey what did you see what do you know can you talk to these other
00:48:50
girls well not only that if there were someone to get away with not signing in she would be able to do that right the
00:48:58
uh statement about this this young man seeing somebody matching Judy's description either getting into a
00:49:07
vehicle or maybe she was pulled in he doesn't know for certain as you pointed out Captain you're very right he's
00:49:13
coming forward after the you know he's seeing missing persons flyers and one thing that that I thought was amazing
00:49:21
about this case you know we always have these little very unique details each one of these cases you would think that
00:49:27
at some point here in the garage after you've covered several hundreds of cases that at some point they just start
00:49:33
becoming carbon copies of one another where in Judy's case it was interesting to me that the story on the surface is
00:49:42
very similar to Brian schaer but then here we have this interesting unique portion to her case where she's playing
00:49:50
dress up the night that she goes missing right how freaking weird is that so they all become an amalgamation of like
00:49:58
a bunch of different cases so she when he says the the statement in the police file is someone matching or someone
00:50:09
matched Judy's description that this vehicle which description is it is it the description of her playing dress up
00:50:15
that night that's a great point or is it the description of her because she she looks very different that night than she
00:50:23
does the rest of the day and that is one thing that I found bizarre about this case because some of
00:50:30
the missing persons Flyers only had the picture from her from that night where she's wearing a freaking
00:50:37
wig you know like I mean this is a young beautiful college student and she looks
00:50:44
quite a bit different she looks quite a bit different in in both of those images
00:50:48
to me that's my opinion and we'll post all those photos on social media so follow us on Facebook Twitter and
00:50:55
Instagram True Crime garage if you want to see those photos the missing person's
00:51:01
flyers in this case that I liked the best or that I thought carried the most weight were the ones that had a a recent
00:51:09
photo of her as she would regularly look and a photo from that night because I think it's crucial here when you're
00:51:16
looking for someone this is how she looks when she's not in her little disguise or playing dress up that night
00:51:22
but these are the items that we expect to be with her or items that we might want to find because we can't locate her
00:51:31
well and like you said in her dorm there's no wig there's no glasses no fake leather purse right to me that's
00:51:41
more evidence that I can lean towards the fact that she never made it back to her
00:51:47
dorm right she's wearing contacts at night she's wearing sunglasses none of those things are ever found in in her
00:51:53
dorm now it's 2 days later as we said earlier but it's at 4:35 p.m. when the actual missing person's report is filed
00:52:01
by a Michelle Shabbat I believe is how you say her last name I probably got that wrong the report was taken by
00:52:08
detective Brandon of the Kansas the report was taken by the the report was taken by detective Brandon of
00:52:17
Kent State uh University PD the then Judy is reported missing to Avon Lake PD at about the same
00:52:28
time this is a weird part to the case as well May 27th the day after she's reported missing Judy's camera is
00:52:37
secured this is by the Kent State PD they obtain her camera pictures show how Judy was dressed that night so this
00:52:49
is interesting because we have the photos of Judy from the night that she went missing so how she looked that
00:52:54
night and what what she was wearing the wig and all that and what is missing from the police information here though
00:53:03
Captain is and this is really anyone's guess where and from whom did they get the
00:53:11
camera again you know we everything we have says that she didn't come home that night so did she leave this camera with
00:53:21
one of her female friends or a male friend after dinner or was it recovered from you know a female friend's dorm or
00:53:29
a male friend dormatory room well like we just don't know it's it's it's an answer that I would love to have yes and
00:53:37
I think there's a couple things one it could have been her dorm room or it could have been when she left her wig
00:53:44
and and other items in that other kid's dorm room and he return those items MH maybe he just didn't notice that she had
00:53:52
a camera there um and here's why I question that it could be from her dor room is it is it possible that
00:54:02
she had this outfit took some pictures of her in this outfit at some point in time and then just went hey I'm going
00:54:12
out to have fun tonight have a couple drinks with my buddies before I go on this trip and I'm
00:54:19
going to put on my zany outfit right I'm with you I think that from the information that I seene it sounds to me
00:54:26
like there's a a high probability this wasn't the first time that she wore that outfit or the wig or some version of
00:54:34
such but the other thing too is we know she was back at her dorm building after dinner hanging out with different
00:54:41
friends that she didn't go to dinner with so when we say she didn't go back to her dorm that night I really want to
00:54:48
underline and Echo what we were saying earlier that I mean that that once she went to the the male dorm building that
00:54:56
she didn't go back to her dorm that night I believe that after dinner she probably went back there because we know
00:55:02
she was in the building so why not stop by her own place if you need anything or
00:55:08
yes she may have dropped off her camera at that time not wanting to carry it around already taking pictures of her
00:55:13
and her friend hanging out before during or after dinner that's a very good point
00:55:19
and also maybe it's part of her responsibilities to then go and check on her floor and make sure there's nobody
00:55:27
reporting anything because that's part of their job I mean I I believe like I believe they actually get paid to
00:55:37
do that well on the following day on the 27th Judy is officially entered as a missing person so this is technically
00:55:46
now three days after she's gone missing the county jail the hospital and campus Health Center are all contacted to see
00:55:55
if she would be there for any reason at all and of course they received negative
00:56:00
results uh friends Michelle and Robin so this is the one friend that reported her
00:56:05
missing the one friend that went to dinner with her that night and Judy's mom along with Sergeant hunt of the Avon
00:56:13
Lake Police Department on the 27th they have like a group call a group phone call that goes
00:56:20
to Kent State PD and they basically ask what the f is going on in the investigation my guess here is because
00:56:30
they probably don't think that kspd is doing anything or actively investigating the missing person's case that they
00:56:39
think it's just another person that will turn up in a few hours or a couple days
00:56:44
well no and you see this look we always talk about oh this happened in a small town and this this law enforcement
00:56:52
agency is not equipped to hand handle this right mhm well that's what a campus is is a small town and yes Kent State
00:57:03
Police will know more about the nooks and crannies of their little Community than State Police or the local law
00:57:13
enforcement but they're not equipped to handle a missing person case like this like once you don't find
00:57:22
her and I'm not even in the 24-hour rule I'd say on a campus you don't find an individual in 12 hours this needs to be
00:57:32
handed over to the big boys well this is when uh Judy's mother says that she is going to call the media and I don't I
00:57:41
imagine this is like a threat of hey I don't think you're doing enough or doing anything and we're not it's not gone
00:57:48
unnoticed well and ask yourself this question if you were questioned by Kent State
00:57:57
Police or the sheriff department which one are you going to be more intimidated by in this case it would be the
00:58:04
sheriff's department you know what I mean it's like there's a lot of people when they're on campuses they don't take
00:58:10
even though they have what they are calling a police department and they can arrest you people don't take them as
00:58:17
serious they look at them more as like security guards than they do police officers look most of their work is
00:58:25
going to be busting up underage drinking parties or breaking up drinking parties
00:58:31
especially back in the late 70s catching people smoking pot smoking doobies um that kind of stuff so you're
00:58:39
right you're absolutely right on that now we said that there are going to be some weird things in the timeline and
00:58:45
here's another strange one on May 30th time unknown there's no time mentioned here um I imagine this is a person
00:58:53
coming forward after the fact after they witnessed this Deborah helmi claims to have seen Judy on Merill Circle near
00:59:04
Engelman and that's as far as that statement goes uh again on May 30th this is at approximately 900 p.m. Bill Jones
00:59:14
a resident of college Towers says that he saw a tall girl with long dark hair being led out of the main door of the
00:59:24
complex by two males he said that the female seemed spaced out and heard her saying quote I haven't been home since
00:59:33
Tuesday but she wasn't all that tall yeah you're you're right um 5'4 I would not consider that to be tall correct and
00:59:41
again I think with some of these sightings of Judy what I think we need to keep in mind is I don't think I think
00:59:50
that they're seeing young ladies that look similar they're just not seeing Judy and I think that these are just
00:59:57
people that are you know they see a missing person's flyer and they're trying to help you know I I saw this and
01:00:03
it's probably nothing but I want to make sure that I at least report it to the proper authorities and what did you call
01:00:10
them grouo pants is that what they're called I no I called them goucho pants and I don't know if that's correct
01:00:16
they're probably not called grouo Pants uh but I also wonder because if somebody
01:00:22
said to me oh well this guy went missing and he had a navy blue hoodie and then 3
01:00:29
days later I'm like oh I saw this guy with a navy navy blue hoodie but he wasn't he wasn't shorter he was a little
01:00:35
bit taller I would report it like where I'd feel like I had to because he had a similar item and like I said these were
01:00:43
kind of these were popular pants at the time so I wonder if there was some sightings just based off her clothing oh
01:00:52
I saw a girl with you know flanel shirt and in these uh goucho pants on May 30th
01:01:00
again no time given for this one Jim young the former boyfriend is contacted he agrees to an interview and is told to
01:01:07
make an appointment ASAP with a detective at 2 p.m on that same day an attempt to interview Charles Neville is
01:01:16
made but he isn't in his room detective Stanley instead finds John Becky who he then interviewed also on May 30th
01:01:26
officers interview Bernie cafrey in the hallway at 3:30 p.m. on the same day officers go to Jim kic's room they they
01:01:38
reinter him officers state it takes several minutes for him to answer or open the door the officer requested to
01:01:46
go into the room for privacy purposes and find an unidentified female in his room he repeats that he last Saw Judy at
01:01:55
11:30 to 12:30 on May 23rd 24th along with Kevin Greer well we know why it took him so long to answer the door and
01:02:05
put his pants back on also on the 30th Captain this is at 4:45 officers stopped by Charles
01:02:13
Neville's room remember we already mentioned that they went there to speak with him again earlier that day they
01:02:19
don't find him he's not home and they speak to Bernie Caffrey and Jim kic in the meantime so now they're going to
01:02:26
circle back to talk with Charles Neville again he is home at this time at 4:45 they enter Charles's room again
01:02:35
they probably asked if they could come in for privacy purposes privacy of the questions that they're going to ask and
01:02:41
they don't want right when you're interviewing people that may have been the last person or one of the last
01:02:46
people to see a missing person you don't want their story being broadcast to everybody else now do you no so they're
01:02:53
in Charles's room and officers stated that he repeated the same story that he told another detective so this would be
01:03:00
the second time that they spoke with him per this statement and they said that Charles during this visit speaks with
01:03:08
his mother and his brother of course this is going to be via phone I believe that his mother and brother are not only
01:03:15
in another state but I believe that they are in two different states themselves he states that his brother is an
01:03:22
attorney at the time or will be an attorney soon and after speaking with his family he agrees to a polygraph test
01:03:32
with the uh police department and Charles was read his rights at that time and given a statement
01:03:39
form and he stated that he would complete these later as he was cooking dinner so he agrees to the polygraph but
01:03:47
it's not going to be administered right then obviously they're in his room they give him a statement form to fill out
01:03:53
this would be like what's your official statement right write it out and sign it
01:03:57
this is kind of your sworn statement right basically we know you've talked to detectives but now we want you to write
01:04:02
down that same story and here we go with back to the old casual atmosphere of the
01:04:08
campus we have a missing person here's your statement form that I need you to fill out but it's okay if you get to it
01:04:15
later right right like we don't want you to burn your dinner here Charles or your
01:04:20
dong why don't you finish cooking have your dinner have nice night and give us a call when you've completed the form
01:04:27
and my problem with this is he's a person of interest because we're talking about what's happening 2 days after she
01:04:34
possibly goes missing what we do know is that she went out to dinner with a friend Robin they
01:04:42
she comes back she's in her her dorm building we know that because we have two different individuals stating that
01:04:51
they spoke with her there at that building and these these are two people that didn't go to dinner with her yeah
01:04:57
so is it possible that she sto by her room to freshen up or or to change clothes or to grab something and then
01:05:04
head over to this Charles guy's dorm and in the and look anybody that's been a part of dorm life when you're going to
01:05:12
go visit with somebody you could just be walking past a room and somebody pops out cuz they they spot you hey what's up
01:05:21
Captain what are you doing and you sit there and talk to them for a while or you
01:05:24
pass a couple people that you in class with and you go hey did you get homework done for the day or whatever so she runs
01:05:31
into some other people so we know she's in the all male dorm room and then we know that at some point she's in
01:05:39
Charles's room we know at some point she's in somebody else's room and then she goes back to Charles's room yep and
01:05:46
this is per Charles Neville and per these other individuals as well and and those were the good old days when you
01:05:51
just open up the door to your room room and on a night where there's a lot of activity and people out and about you
01:05:58
never know who's going to drop in who you're going to see or when a party's going to bust out in your place yeah
01:06:05
until you you know you get labeled icky flicky flicky and nobody wants to talk to you anymore so again
01:06:14
she's in the mail dorm room we don't have anybody that places her back into her dorm we don't have anybody that
01:06:21
places her outside heading towards her dorm room so look th then these individuals Charles John Jim Bernie and
01:06:32
Kevin they all become Persons of Interest and we need to know if their stories line up or if any of them have
01:06:41
any nefarious background I think those that's the starting point of the investigation but
01:06:48
like you said they're already going about it in such a such a lacad isical manner and top that off here captain
01:06:55
that will not be this will not be the end of the weird activities or the strange events that will take place in
01:07:03
this [Music] timeline so much more to get to to check out our blog go to True Crim
01:07:21
garage.com and please join us back back here tomorrow in the garage until then be good be kind and don't
01:07:29
[Music] litter you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
01:08:10
your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
01:08:17
visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that