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foreign [Music] foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you for listening I'm your
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host Nick and hosting with me as always a man who cannot he cannot be described as Superfly that is because he is super
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duper fly he is the captain that's right against my window I can't stand rain it's good to be seen and it's good to
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see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend foreign ER by the Terrapin beer company this is
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a killer IPA that earns its name by using six different types of hops while still remaining an aggressive
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well-balanced beer and today we're all hopped up thanks to our garage friends first up how about a cheers to Robin in
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Rupert Idaho and a big shout out to why don't you come on over Valerie in Dallas Texas I'm
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the same boy I used to be their Captain next up we have a shout out to Hoda and little Layla in London
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and a nice jib goes out to Jennifer in Sylvania Ohio and here we go Captain we got a cheers to Casper and San Antonio
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Texas and last but certainly not least we have Katie from Alton New Hampshire thank you to everybody for helping us
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for the show at True Crime garage and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab
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a beer let's talk some true crime oh [Music] foreign [Music] where we left off here Captain we have
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Paul John Knowles some have called him the Casanova killer who is on the run from police he escaped from his
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detention cell and he's been on the run ever since that was in Late July where we left off we were through the month of
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October and in early November Knowles met British journalist Sandy fox in Atlanta Georgia eventually the
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two-parted ways but Knowles picked up an acquaintance of foxes this is Susan McKenzie
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and demanded sex from her at gunpoint she escaped and notified police of this attack
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on November 14th Paul John Knowles was in West Palm Beach Florida and the police were on to him in fact he was
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stopped by an officer however Knowles pointed a shotgun at the officer the officer Dove behind his police vehicle
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and Noel sped off by now he needed to ditch the Chevy Impala as the vehicle description was what prompted the
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officer to stop Knowles we have this woman Susan McKenzie who thankfully gets away from Knowles tells police about the
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attack gives a description of Knowles she very likely even knew his name at that time but more importantly gives
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police the vehicle description possibly knows his name or possibly one of his aliases he went by Lester Daryl Gates or
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Daryl golden that's interesting and that's a good point there too Captain because this
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Susan McKenzie as we said was an acquaintance of Sandy Fox and Sandy fox has always said that Knowles introduced
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himself to her as Daryl golden the key here is we but hold on a second you get to pick a name
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and that's what you're picking my name is Daryl golden yeah I mean I don't know um I don't know why he came up with that
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name it doesn't appear that he has a victim out there that he would have had credit cards belonging to that name or
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anything that would help him along his way um it might be like a literary term or
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name that we don't know uh be be interesting if anybody had some further thoughts on that
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but what we have here is that Knowles has to get rid of this Chevy Impala because that is what is stopping him
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from fleeing the area he's going to keep running into trouble with the police if
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he continues to drive this vehicle around what he does desperate for another vehicle to flee the area Knowles breaks
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into the home of 31 year old Barbara Tucker there were three people in the house at
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the time that he broke in he ties two of them up and then he kidnaps Barbara Tucker at
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gunpoint he robs the house and he drives off with her and her Volkswagen right but here's what the problem with these
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spree killers are is because they're killing to get to their next location or to keep running they have to keep
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leaving evidence behind so now he has a new vehicle and new victims but he's leaving the old vehicle behind it's the
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old trail of breadcrumbs what happens here Captain is one of the people tied up that he left at the home
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eventually is able to free themselves they call in this abduction right this man broke into the home tied us up took
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one of us Barbara Tucker 31 year old Barbara Tucker took her vehicle police show up on the scene they're trying to
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figure everything out one of the first things that they notice is that Chevy Impala is parked near Barbara Tucker's
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Place this was William bates's Chevy Impala from Ohio right so the terrifying thing
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here is police aren't going into this going we don't know what happened they're going holy [ __ ] we know what
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happened we know who's responsible for this this is a very dangerous man there's a killer on the road and we know
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that because he keeps dumping these homicide victims or missing persons victims Vehicles along the way when he
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snatches somebody else and takes their vehicle right so they know what he's capable of I mean I'm and I'm sure
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like you said these these devastating crime scenes where it looks like an animal went through or a man possessed
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I'm sure those rumors are getting around to law enforcement so not only is he a dangerous man but this guy could turn
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into a a psycho pretty quickly the other thing too is he's not he doesn't appear
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to be afraid of law enforcement we know that right even at a young age he abducted an officer at gunpoint we know
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he escaped from a jail cell after he was picked up on a you know getting in that
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bar fight and then we have the situation where he is pulled over the officer doesn't really know who he's dealing
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with but before he can figure it out Knowles pulls a shotgun on him and the officer was so terrified had to jump
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behind their vehicle so this guy is not only dangerous to the public but he's dangerous to the men and women who are
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trying to apprehend him yeah and sometimes when you see images of these individuals that you can tell they look
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dangerous in the case of somebody like Ted Bundy not so much and in the case you know
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here PJ Knowles the Casanova killer I want to look at his picture and think this guy is a raging psychopath I would
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go this guy looks laid back almost hollywood-like well now with a new hostage in a new vehicle he
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drives to a hotel in Fort Pierce Florida and rented a room for two nights at the
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Skyway Motel under the names Mr and Mrs James Smith the next night Knowles saw Barbara
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Tucker's picture on the news the the woman he took hostage right he sees her picture on the 11 o'clock news with
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details about the kidnapping this prompts Knowles to tie up Tucker and then flee the area
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lucky for her because we know he's left a trail blood behind him who knows what would have happened had
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he not been forced to leave and get out of there quickly or like his one victim where he tied up but
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didn't and I guess intentionally murder but ended up dying from being tied up and gagged it wasn't until the next
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morning that Tucker was able to free herself this was around 7 A.M and she called the police one hour later okay
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we're on November 16th right now so one hour after Barbara Tucker calls police at 7am
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from that Motel highway patrolman Charles Campbell stopped the stolen Volkswagen and pulled it over the Burley
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Trooper unstrapped his gun but did not take it out of the holster as the trooper approached the car Knowles aimed
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a shotgun at him telling him to freeze Knowles took the trooper's weapon and put the officer in the patrol car
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Knowles jumped in the driver's seat and drove off with the officer now his new hostage
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Knowles knew because he was on the run and because of the Abduction of Barbara Tucker the traffic stop would have been
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called in and soon they would find the abandoned Volkswagen and no officer Campbell right right so officer Campbell
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pulls this guy over called it in he knows it's only a matter of time before backup and everybody else is on their
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way well but what we know and what law enforcement doesn't know is this guy is totally fine with going down in a blaze
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of glory yeah well the other difficult thing too difficult for Knowles is he can't really drive around in this patrol
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car and go unnoticed why not as long as he doesn't turn on the sirens he should be good well he's going to do
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the exact opposite of that to he's going to turn on the sirens yeah he flips on the car's lights in the
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siren and he makes a traffic stop of his own oh he pulled over a blue Torino driving the vehicle was 29 year
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old businessman James Meyer Knowles handcuffed officer Campbell and Meyer together in the back seat of the Torino
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and drives off in this new vehicle now this time leaving the patrol car abandoned on the side of the road one
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thing that's terrifying about this situation is that there were several eyewitnesses
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he just did this in in broad daylight in front of a whole bunch of other cars yeah it's like again it's that
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transformation into complete utter psycho it's the downward spiral and what happens here I mean think about this if
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you're just a motorist on the road you notice when when a car when when a police vehicle or state trooper pulls
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somebody over it just it goes notice because your first thought is there's the lights oh I hope they're not pulling
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me over oh good it's that guy right and then all of a sudden you're paying attention and what's going on you see a
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man a plain clothes man with long red hair get out he takes the driver of that Torino hostage and who does he handcuff
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him to a State Trooper a uniformed officer places them in the back of the civilian
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car and then drives off well two more hostages yeah this time leaving the patrol car abandoned on the side of the
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road Knowles eventually turned onto a dirt road this is about 20 miles south of Macon Georgia there he pulled the two
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hostages out from the back seat and at gunpoint he walked them deep into the woods he sat them down at a tree which
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he selected at random and he shot each of them at very close range in the back of the head sadly
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James Meyer was just 29 years old and he was returning home to his family in Delaware from a Florida business trip he
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was killed and then hero a hero just doing his everyday job to Serve and Protect Trooper Charles Eugene Campbell
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of the Florida State Patrol was killed as well End of Watch November 16 1974. the two captives were shot in an
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act of Senseless cowardice cold-blooded murder with officer Campbell's service weapon
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Knowles once again took off police all over the area were setting up roadblocks about 24 hours later Knowles
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attempted to crash through one of these roadblocks but when doing so he crashed into a tree
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he jumped out of the vehicle firing shots at the officers and the officers returned fire as Knowles fled on foot
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one of the officers however managed to shoot Knolls in the leg but regardless Knowles got away
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bloodied Knowles ran from police deeper and deeper into the woods well at least they hit him because I think that's at
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least at least if you can hit him on some level that he's injured he's going to have to get help at some point well
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and luckily he didn't end up shooting any of these officers right while he's running from the area
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eventually Knowles was cornered this was the following day by 27 year old former
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Vietnam War veteran and Hospital maintenance worker David Clark he's armed with the shotgun and he was
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there's a couple different stories for this and I always find this interesting especially when you go back to these
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older news stories I mean we're we're sitting here talking about stories from 1974. right
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when something later becomes headline news none of these previous stories were headline news it's always interesting to
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me how then later you get a couple different versions come out and you don't know if maybe they're putting a
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little lipstick on the pig dressing the story up a little bit making it sound a little more theatrical a little more
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Hollywood but the the two stories that vary here Captain is one that this man was uh
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David Clark that he was out hunting and he came across Knowles and recognized him and understood hey I gotta take this
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guy in the other story is that um that he stumbled onto a a nearby Farm somebody else's Farm in this David Clark
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came across him there regardless of what the story is the one that I tend to believe and I'm going to roll with here
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because I think it would make for for a better part in our little garage story that we're telling here
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David Clark comes across Knowles and for whatever reason Knowles gives up which is something
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we've not seen him do yet but this David Clark manages to get him under control and walks him to the nearest home that
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he can find this is not going to be a short walk either because according to most of the stories Knowles is out in
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the middle of the woods somewhere again well that's why I go back to the injury how bad is that leg injured
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I don't know because it seems like Knowles was making pretty good time that he would that he was making a
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pretty good pace for himself along the way because what we would later be told the short of it is Clark takes him to
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this this nearby house where a phone call is made to the police and eventually Noel's apprehended by police
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in that manner they state that Knowles was outside of the perimeter established for The Manhunt and it would be very
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likely that Knowles would have escaped and that he would have been on the Run after this but he still has a book if it
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were not for the actions of the uh the uh local citizens there I don't know for certain if there was a bullet in his leg
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I mean you could get you can get grazed uh I don't have a description a good description of the injury suffered by
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Knowles but but based off of everything we know that he did along the way you hope he
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was hurting as bad as possible well yeah and and it's I think um surprising they know that this guy they know
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Knowles is one a fugitive but on top of that we know he is a he killed two men for certain and one is
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a police officer so the fact that they didn't just instead of picking them up they just
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didn't put one in his head right away Judge Jerry Dunn yeah so we're going to have Knowles
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sitting in a jail cell for about a month okay this guy now is big news he's headlines
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now because now we have this guy that was on the Run fugitive On The Run we know he's killed several people along
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the way when when they were bringing him in there were people lining up on the sides
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of the streets who just wanted to get a look at this guy they wanted to see him transported from the vehicle into the
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jail well while he's sitting in jail we have Sheriff Earl Lee who says that he asked Paul John Knowles
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how many people he had killed while he was out on the Run and Noel said do you know how old I was
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when Society put me in prison Lee says I'm guessing you were 17 or 18. and Knowles replies 18. and then he
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wrote the number 18 in the palm of his left hand and held it up to show the sheriff Knowles wrote the name of seven
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states Georgia Florida Ohio Connecticut Texas Virginia and Mississippi in which he claimed to have killed people
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when he was being held he was being charged with seven murders two in Florida one in Ohio and four in Georgia
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Sheriff Lee would go on to say that he believed that that was Knowles's way of telling him hey
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I killed 18 people by writing that on the palm of his hand and asking the question do you know how old I was when
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Society decided to lock me up [Music] foreign [Music] if you guys are looking for all the old
00:20:43
episodes like episode number one I mean it's a it's a real [ __ ] show but if you
00:20:51
want to listen to that that's your prerogative some people loved it what about episode 200 or episode 250 or
00:20:59
episode 100 I think we think we got a a cake a birthday cake for the garage for episode 100. anyway this is a long way
00:21:07
of saying all of those wonderful some very very good couple of them not so good episodes are available to you for
00:21:16
free for free for free you download the very free the very awesome Stitcher app and you get hundreds of True Crime
00:21:24
garage episodes again that's free cost you nothing and you can listen to all them but if you need more if that's not
00:21:32
enough for you we do a bonus show called off the Record where we do case updates
00:21:39
sometimes we just get silly sometimes we talk about little pieces of case little
00:21:45
details of cases that maybe still bother us and revisit cases from time to time and that is called off the Record and
00:21:53
that is on stitch for premium so check that out the best way to do it is just go to
00:21:59
truecrimegarage.com and follow the stitcher link thank you [Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers
00:22:18
to you captain on December 18 1974 Sheriff Earl Lee and Georgia Bureau of Investigations agent Ronnie Angel
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were traveling down Interstate 20 with Paul John Knowles Knowles is wearing leg irons and
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handcuffs he's in the back seat surefully is driving an agent Angel is sitting shotgun their destination was
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Henry County Georgia where Noel said he had dumped the handgun that he took off of Florida State Trooper Charles
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Campbell the gun he used to kill both Campbell and the civilian Myers remember he killed both of them in Cold Blood
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right somehow Knowles managed to pick the lock while sitting in the back seat of this
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police car he managed to pick the lock and slip out of the handcuffs freeing his right hand
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immediately Knowles went for Sheriff Lee's revolver Lee is now wrestling with Knowles trying desperately to not give
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up his gun and still trying to maintain the vehicle Lee's gun goes off Angel reacts almost immediately and
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fires three shots Angel put three 38 caliber bullets into Paul John Knowles one hit his left
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temple one went into his chest and one entered his back and exited under his left armpit
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Knowles died on the scene law enforcement of course never recovered the slain state trooper's gun do you
00:23:57
think this is possibly these officers taken the law into their own hands he killed an officer and I think it'd be
00:24:07
real simple we're going to transport in from one place to another place we're going to make sure it's pretty
00:24:13
easy for him to get out of his cuffs once he gets out of his cuffs we'll shoot him and we'll say he went for your
00:24:20
gun done and done so if we are to believe all the stories we're told out of Georgia
00:24:27
with the with the situation of Paul John Knowles is the way that this story starts off is
00:24:34
the three of them are traveling down the interstate because they're going to go and recover this gun that he used to
00:24:41
kill two people along the way right one of them being an officer the thing is we have Knowles who's
00:24:48
sitting in a cell and he's talking he's opening up it's not too difficult for law enforcement or what would eventually
00:24:55
be the prosecutors to put together a case against Knowles because you have a weird situation where you have a paper
00:25:04
trail that be it credit cards that were stolen from people that were killed cars
00:25:10
that were stolen from people that were killed and then dumped along the way you have a paper trail a blood trail but
00:25:16
they're really piecing everything together when they're sitting back and looking at it Captain they're going okay
00:25:21
well we're charging him with seven murders and what was it three different states we suspect that he probably
00:25:28
killed in seven states so how many no how many victims does that put us at if we can get him to talk about anything
00:25:37
let's find out everything he's willing to tell us but we also have to verify what is the truth and what is a lie so
00:25:44
if he's willing to take us to this gun if we go to where he says and we find the gun that tells us he might be
00:25:51
willing to tell us the truth and he might be able to tell us a lot of truths along the way and we can figure out
00:25:56
everything this guy has done well the only reason that he would cooperate anyways is to possibly take the death
00:26:03
penalty off the table Yeah that would be a possibility the other thing though too
00:26:10
is keep in mind he I believe he never he never said this directly that that I'm aware of or that we have on any type of
00:26:19
record anywhere but I really believe that he idolized people like Bonnie and Clyde and Charles
00:26:27
Starkweather and people of that nature people that gain Fame through their through their killings and through their
00:26:33
battles with police and law enforcement and he wanted some type of notoriety for
00:26:40
that be it Fame while he's still alive or notoriety after his death so he might have been willing to talk anyway in that
00:26:49
regard because he wants people to know what he did and he wants credit for it well and also to that point
00:26:57
chances of him knowing where this gun would be and a location that he wasn't familiar with
00:27:03
doesn't seem likely even if he is telling the truth or what he believes to be yeah but his motive could have been
00:27:08
as simple as okay well let's go look for this gun I'm going to talk some trash to these
00:27:14
officers I'm going to eventually either wrestle myself free or cause a big enough of scene that they're gonna have
00:27:22
to put me down then people can romanticize me more just like I did Bonnie and Clyde and individuals like
00:27:29
that that's a possibility and I'll get to my my thoughts here in just a second after pointing this out because we do
00:27:36
have Knolls his two attorneys there were two attorneys that held a press conference the day after Knowles was
00:27:42
shot to death and they said that Knowles was murdered by law enforcement they said that they believed that Georgia
00:27:48
police intended to kill Paul John Knowles that it was a setup and an execution and that Noel should have been
00:27:56
executed in prison after serving time on death row and not in the back of a sheriff's car bringing up the question
00:28:03
is this in fact a Justified killing or a setup for murder right I get it and right that that makes for the good
00:28:12
interesting Hollywood version of the story what I think there's a problem of here is that these officers are human
00:28:21
beings okay they are not bulletproof they are not something out of a DC Comic or a Marvel Superhero these people are
00:28:32
men they're they're just like you and I and the thing is what you have here is probably a little
00:28:39
bit better than we are in in your possession traveling with you alone on the highway
00:28:47
is a man that you know has killed multiple people he's killed an officer he's at least
00:28:54
more than once abducted an officer at gunpoint he's flashed guns at law enforcement he's escaped jail and and
00:29:03
police many times what you run the risk here of saying all right well let's uh let's set up a
00:29:12
situation where we get a very very dangerous individual a homicidal maniac we're going to set up a situation where
00:29:21
we make it easy for him to slip out of his handcuffed and make a go for our one of our guns no I don't see oh that's not
00:29:30
how you set it up you you shoot the son of a [ __ ] and then you take off one of his cuffs
00:29:37
well agreed agreed but the question that that I was asked in that that several else other people have pondered is did
00:29:45
they set it up in a way that Knowles would have started to escape on his own that he wouldn't have been able to
00:29:53
he wouldn't be able to resist the opportunity of escaping if you're going to execute the guy because you want to
00:30:00
put him down because of what horrible human being he is and knowing that he killed a fellow officer you're exactly
00:30:06
right you drive out in the middle of nowhere no Witnesses you pump him full of lead and then you make it look like
00:30:12
that he broke free and there was some kind of escape attempt what I really think happened here is very likely what
00:30:20
the story that's been presented we know he's an accomplished escape artist let's say that right he's he has
00:30:28
escaped police multiple times I think what has happened is that went down in that manner and very quickly these
00:30:36
officers are going this is not a time to decide whether it's right or wrong or what's better for anybody five minutes
00:30:43
from now we have to react to this very dangerous man and the only way to react in the moment is to shoot him
00:30:52
and I think that's what happened here well but I think there's an easy way to get good officers good people to
00:31:00
possibly go along with this hit being look he's been locked up before and then never works because he gets out and he's
00:31:08
been on the run for so long he's killed all these people and by the way he killed an officer and those two things
00:31:14
okay we're going to take justice and we're going to take the law into our own hands we're going to go out there kill
00:31:21
this guy and and rid the world of this evil crazy psychopath well and he is an example of somebody
00:31:31
that is not look you can't lock somebody like Knowles up and then think that Society is safe just because this man's
00:31:40
Behind Bars this man is dangerous as long as he is breathing air I'm not saying again I think what they they say
00:31:49
happened is exactly what happened I think his past Behavior shows that he will make a run for it when he can I
00:31:57
think he attempted to do so I think he was willing to kill both officers in the process they reacted to the situation
00:32:04
they put him down I think more so rather than wanting the the the fame or any part of that I think this was a
00:32:13
strategic move by Knowles let's get me out of These Bars let's get me in you know just with two officers
00:32:21
instead of in a jail with a whole bunch of them that will give me the best chance to escape well yeah because I
00:32:29
think so I think we manipulated the system yeah yeah but I think you agree with me the chances of him knowing where
00:32:35
this gun would be oh yeah I don't think he would have found it right yeah so now
00:32:41
we have a dead Paul Knowles and remember we have those kill tapes what what are referred to as the kill tapes that's
00:32:48
really just the confession that he made that he he gave these tapes to his attorney right what happens here is the
00:32:56
law enforcement through the court system they confiscate these tapes because they
00:33:02
need to use them for investigative purposes the attorneys wanted to keep them make
00:33:09
some kind of book or something out of them they wanted to follow through with Knowles's wishes but law enforcement and
00:33:16
the court systems like look this is evidence of crimes we we need this we need to take these and use these for uh
00:33:24
future reference probably and where we see this come to be is a cold case from 1974. so we have this
00:33:33
little story Captain this is a cold case from 1974 with a missing 13 year old the few details that I could find says
00:33:41
this 13 year old Emma Jean Sanders lived with her mother and her four-year-old sister
00:33:48
Emma was babysitting while Mom was at work the little four-year-old got angry when she was told to stay in the house
00:33:56
and she watched her older sister Emma Jean get into a van with a bunch of her friends Emma Jean never returned over a
00:34:05
year later a very badly decomposed body was found in a wooded area near Macon Georgia
00:34:11
this is in 1976 by this point and these are skeletal remains found on in Peach County
00:34:19
at the time investigators all they had was they knew the remains were of a young white female then fast
00:34:27
forward 34 years later they get some DNA from Betty wisecup who is Emma Jean's mother they do a
00:34:38
comparison and now they have a match so 34 years later 36 years after the child disappeared The Remains were identified
00:34:47
and eventually returned to Emma Jean's Mother after all this time they had some answers but not all of them then two
00:34:57
years after that in December of 2012 using information found in Paul John Knowles's confessions they were able to
00:35:06
conclude that Paul John Knowles was the killer of Imogene knoll's confession says in August of 1974 he picked up a
00:35:15
young female hitchhiker named Alma so he had the name a little wrong he took her
00:35:21
to a wooded area outside of Macon Georgia this is near where her body was found almost two years later wow he says
00:35:28
he raped and strangled her and then left the body there in another story this is from the Charlie project
00:35:38
charlieproject.org if anybody wants to go there and do some snooping around we have Lillian and Millette Anderson
00:35:45
who have been missing since August 1st 1971. missing from Jacksonville Florida both are classified as endangered
00:35:53
missing their ages at the time Lillian was 11 and Millet was just seven their distinguishing characteristics both are
00:36:03
Caucasian female Lillian goes by her middle name Annette and most accounts refer to her by that name
00:36:11
they have both have medical conditions Lillian suffers from a thyroid condition and requires daily medication and Millet
00:36:19
has asthma and a weak heart the details of The Disappearance are as follows Annette and her sister Millet
00:36:27
disappeared from Jacksonville Florida on August 1 1974. their mother left them a home
00:36:32
alone at approximately 6 PM while she went to care for a sick relative the girl's father
00:36:39
was supposed to return and arrive home from work shortly after but he got delayed by an hour or so when he did
00:36:46
finally get home the two girls were nowhere to be found and the family dog which usually had the run of the house
00:36:53
was locked up in a bedroom the girls were never heard from again that year several young girls between the ages of
00:37:02
6 and 12 disappeared there was a handful of them actually but because the abductions happened in different parts
00:37:11
of the city authorities don't believe that they are in fact related investigators theorize Annette and
00:37:18
Millet were killed by Paul John Knowles a Serial murderer who was killed by police later in 1974.
00:37:27
and on the Charlie project page for the two missing girls we have a photo of Knowles that is featured there as well
00:37:38
and we talked about the tape recordings the kill tapes on these tapes Knowles said he abducted two girls matching the
00:37:46
general description of the Anderson Sisters killed them and buried them in a remote area at the West End of
00:37:53
Commonwealth Avenue so even though their case their cases remains unsolved it's really believed that Knowles is
00:38:02
responsible for the deaths of these two young girls as well again we have this individual don't judge a book by a cover
00:38:10
because if I was going to cast this guy in a movie Just based off of appearance I go oh we got the cool quiet guy in the
00:38:18
corner or possibly the stoner hippie type that's what he looked like this guy is beyond vicious it's amazing that he's
00:38:28
not talked about more often well and I you know I said hey go check out those videos those online YouTube
00:38:35
videos of the detective that worked one of the double homicide cases in Georgia and he said the same thing he's like you
00:38:44
know we we have all these movies and all these books about Ted Bundy and you got
00:38:48
to keep in mind that area of the country they're very hyper focused on Ted Bundy
00:38:54
because he went down to Florida and killed a bunch of girls but he says Knowles in in this detective's
00:39:02
opinion he says was more vicious than Bundy and he was every bit as dangerous we're talking about two individuals that
00:39:11
are very similar in a lot of ways you know escaping running uh on the run from police killing while they're on the run
00:39:19
you know a lot of people when they're on the run from police they try to lay low
00:39:23
not these guys they're out killing people they're out Making Waves they're out leaving a trail of blood along the
00:39:33
way I felt like Ron we do have several books that were written about Knowles over the years we have Sandy Fox's book
00:39:41
Killing Time from 1977. I read that one that's a very good one I didn't use it for this week's
00:39:48
recommended reading just simply because it's very hard to get your hands on a copy of it so it's
00:39:55
like what good is it to recommend something that nobody can can go out and read right she did a follow-up book to
00:40:02
that called Natural Born Killer which really that's kind of what Knowles reminds me of you know we talk so much
00:40:10
about Bonnie and Clyde Bonnie Parker and Clyde burrow during these episodes but he really reminds me a lot of Mickey and
00:40:19
Mallory from the movie Natural Born Killers and so that other book is called Natural Born Killer in love and on the
00:40:26
road with a serial killer that was in 2004. I've not read that one so I can't can't put my stamp on that one and then
00:40:33
there's another book called one is Not Enough by Georgina Lloyd that came out in 1976.
00:40:42
the article that we referenced in the trailer was from a series of Articles done by
00:40:48
Paul muskel from The Daily News in New York back in early this would have been January 1975.
00:40:57
and the series was called something like he killed so many people he lost count seems like a long title yeah well it
00:41:06
like I said it was a series and they used to run those sometimes in the newspapers those were always interesting
00:41:11
it's so there are things out there there are reference materials and books written
00:41:18
about Knowles over the years I think that a large part of it is when you compare him and Bundy
00:41:25
it's not that one is more notorious than the other it's just that you have one who had such a brief
00:41:33
short life and Knowles who look I I didn't really spend a whole lot of time Captain trying to decipher what
00:41:42
happened out on the road that day with those two officers I I do not like vigilante justice at all but looking at
00:41:50
Knowles's track record and how many kids he killed and and the brutal homicides we know he committed and he killed a
00:41:57
State Trooper along the way it just didn't feel like a valuable use of my time to determine if I thought that
00:42:03
there was any wrongdoing at all because we know that what led to that day was a whole lot of wrongdoing by one guy right
00:42:10
all along the way I will say that the police and the Georgia authorities did feel that they had to
00:42:18
kind of back up their story enough so much so that they did present some evidence to the public which I will
00:42:24
applaud them for that people can consider to cover up or whatever what have you we've covered so many cases where we
00:42:32
criticize law enforcement for not telling us what they know when they are at a point in time where they could and
00:42:39
so I want to applaud them for doing that when they could here in Georgia you know
00:42:42
they said we found a broken paper clip in the back seat of the car that we believed is what he used to pick the
00:42:50
lock on the handcuffs right and we found a whole bunch of scratch marks on the handcuffs where it was looking like he
00:42:57
was working the Cuffs as they were driving along that day but we have these audio tapes
00:43:04
which I think maybe the big difference between maybe the coverage of Knowles and and Bundy is simply down
00:43:14
to technology we have video footage of Bundy a lot more video footage and him representing himself and
00:43:23
try on that being a trial that is seen by people Nationwide it's polarizing right and maybe that's why the coverage
00:43:31
is more but this this this individual is very um very vicious I mean one of the vicious because it's it's the crimes are
00:43:42
so different it's almost like you could put him in any scenario and he can become a murderer where some
00:43:51
of these other Killers I mean even Gacy and some of them it's like they have to lure them back to their their Lair or
00:43:59
get them in a vehicle or invade somebody's home this guy is like it doesn't matter how it goes down
00:44:07
it's going to go down well and the thing the terrifying thing for him you know he is the definition of
00:44:14
the word dangerous because the terrifying thing about Knowles is and we kind of mentioned this briefly in
00:44:21
episode one all these things he did along the way he they were necessary for him to keep
00:44:28
running from police and to stay out there and have his freedom the stealing the taking of cars manipulating people
00:44:36
that was all very necessary what was not necessary was the raping and killing that he added to the whole mix he chose
00:44:46
to kill all those people he was going to it was no look it was no mystery who was
00:44:52
committing a lot of these crimes along the way all he was doing was making it worse for him once he finally got caught
00:44:59
for this so it just really shows what kind of a cold-blooded killer he truly really was and I think he fancied
00:45:07
himself that I think he almost felt like he was living out some kind of some either some kind of fantasy or he was
00:45:14
living in a Hollywood movie you talked about the aliases that he used along the way but there was a name that he liked
00:45:20
to call himself and he called himself Mad Dog Knowles and I think that's a little bit of an insight into what he
00:45:27
thought of himself he thought of himself as an outlaw he thought of himself as a
00:45:32
dangerous dangerous man now the New York daily news referred to Paul John Knowles's cross-country killing spree as
00:45:40
an odyssey of casual Terror and blood hmm 18 to 35 possible victims murdered in Cold Blood
00:45:53
I don't know if there is a such thing as casual Terror an odyssey of casual Terror and blood I admire a great
00:46:01
Wordsmith for I do not possess the ability to be one just the ability to appreciate one but I think an odyssey of
00:46:09
casual Terror and blood is way off the Mark I like what another writer said better calling Knowles a kill crazy
00:46:17
monster and then you go to the question of how many victims he was charged with seven there was
00:46:24
thought that it could be 17 we have the sheriff who says Knowles was hinting at 18 victims and then if you go
00:46:32
by the kill tapes that number goes all the way up to 35. well not to mention every state that he was in when he was
00:46:40
on the Run anytime there's a missing teenager or younger female he's possibly responsible for or
00:46:49
female hitchhiker yeah so I won't go through all the cities or all the states because the list is very very long but
00:46:58
what we have here in regards to Knowles is we have a paper trail an extensive paper trail when he killed William Bates
00:47:05
in Ohio he stole William bates's credit cards and along the way he was charging food and gasoline and 37 different
00:47:14
states using those credit cards he was in 37 different States before they locked him up and according to detective
00:47:22
James Josey who worked one of the double homicide cases he said that their his Department could track Knowles to 33
00:47:31
States in 54 cities and it's of his belief that Knowles probably killed somebody in every one of those stops so
00:47:40
what is the correct number what is the true number of victims here we will very likely never ever know
00:47:48
now let's go back to Angela Samuel kovic she was the woman who hired the attorney
00:47:54
to get Knowles paroled and and he goes out to California he asked her to marry him she says no and after a handful of
00:48:04
days Knowles is back in Florida and he's getting ready to do a whole lot of bad bad things
00:48:11
well after he's captured their correspondence picks up where it left off and then shortly after he is killed
00:48:20
she is in the papers she is in front of the cameras saying that she believes that he was set up that he was executed
00:48:27
in the back of a sheriff's car by law enforcement she goes on to say I would die for him for love and to that
00:48:37
I go what what are you talking about because you were with this man and you said no I
00:48:44
don't want to marry you no I don't want to continue this relationship so it seemed to me like maybe she likes the
00:48:50
camera as much as Knowles did maybe she likes the notoriety or fame as much as he was seeking it Angela Samuel kovic
00:48:58
was in charge of making the funeral arrangements for her one-time boyfriend Paul John Knowles
00:49:04
at the funeral only a dozen or two people attended the service and at the funeral the Baptist Minister
00:49:12
that was hired for the occasion refused to say may he rest in peace [Music] thank you guys so much for listening and
00:49:32
tuning and being a part of the garage do we have any recommended reading this week this week I am so very proud that
00:49:41
we are able to pay homage to one of my favorite FBI profilers the late great Mr Roy Hazelwood Hazelwood is regarded as
00:49:51
the pioneer of profiling sexual predators he retired in the 90s and co-authored two books on the subject and
00:49:59
today we are recommending the evil that men do FBI profiler Roy hazelwood's journey into the minds of sexual
00:50:08
predators check out that great title and others when you go to truecrime garage.com and click on the recommended
00:50:15
page and it's available on Audible by the way their captain and until next week be good be kind and don't litter
00:50:26
foreign [Music]