00:00:05
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] do you know why they're cheering they are cheering CU I
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finally finally watched making a murderer oh you did did you watch the whole thing yes so it's easy to tear
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right through it um I when I watched it I think I was a year late to the party what did it come
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out 2015 I think I watched it in 2016 yeah I'm three years late which you know who knows I that could have been
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six months late to the party I don't know but I I sat down with the intent of actually just watching one episode and
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not uh planning to watch the entire series but it was so good it's so entertaining um that and it's it's well
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filmed and there's good music and stuff like that like a good really cool kind of opening uh to to the episodes and it
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it really just rolls you it's it's interesting enough that it rolls you right from one episode into the second
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and then sometimes the third in the same setting yeah and and I think um it's been weird because it's been out
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for 3 years I haven't watched it I've read a lot about the case mhm and I have always used this as like a
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barometer so if we're talking Adon Sayad case with somebody where I'm talking West Memphis 3 with somebody joban ramsy
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if they have some kind of off-the-wall theory one of the things that I'd always stop them and go hey stop for a second
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this has happened 100 times at crime con I've stopped people okay stop right there stop what you're
00:02:07
debating me about or what you're trying to prove to me even though there's no debate you know how sometimes people
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just start debating somebody's innocence and you're like well I I agree with you so I'd always stop and say what's
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your thoughts on the stepen Avery case and based off of what they said there I would know
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what kind of person I was dealing with is the way I viewed it so if so if I said stop right there and somebody and I
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said let me know about Stephen Avery and they said well I don't think that they had enough to convict him or I don't
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know if he got a fair trial okay I see that if they jumped right to it was a conspiracy theory and
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the cops killed this innocent woman then that kind of lets me know where your head goes mhm and so I'd always use that
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which is weird that I used a case that there is a documentary that I never watched right I
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mean but I I did read a lot about it and I did watch a lot of the videos of what
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they left out quote unquote M which the funny thing is I've seen so many of these what did they leave out videos
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that I was expecting to be like watching this and going these filmmakers these ladies they purposely left this stuff
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out now watching it I don't think they purposely left out anything I think some of the stuff just
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got left out because it wasn't a part of the trial that they thought was interesting enough to put in the film
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well and it was years what 10 years of filming or something crazy like right I mean you couldn't leave in everything or
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we would still be watching season 1 right now 3 years after it came out right so um yeah tricky man It's tricky
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because um with a lot of these cases and I found myself in this same group as well sometimes I don't know everything
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that that is out there about the case and I maybe I formed an opinion or a theory based off of what I know yet I
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don't I I've not found everything that's out there and yeah there's been times you know I've been in and I don't really
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debate people too much with True Crime because would rather just talk I'd rather just hear what they have to say
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because until something's solved any theory is in is one that I wouldn't mind hearing um yeah so well sometimes I've
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been asked what my thought process on something was or or what what my Outlook was on something and
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especially at like crime con you had a couple drinks somebody's asking about ad non Sayad or I keep bringing that up one
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up but I'm bringing that one up because that's a hot case as far as if you think he's
00:05:03
innocent you're hardcore he's innocent and if somebody thinks he's guilty then you know you you might smash their face
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so and not every case is like that but there are these cases that people are very passionate about and rightfully so
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but sometimes if I know that they're really passionate about it I'll just kind of not want to give
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what my thoughts are either way right who knows what kind of fire and also you're in a setting that you can't
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explain everything uh I've gotten into tons of heated debates about that on Sayad case uh and and most of the time I
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agree with 99% of what the other person is saying MH uh we just don't agree on one or two points so but this case was
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strange because I thought I'd go in and watch it and my thought process has always been stepen Avery's guilty
00:06:01
period case Clos what happened what happened was he called her he got Teresa to go onto his
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property they he got her her into his trailer he bound and tied her up to a bed he raped her he killed her uh
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possibly slouched her throat uh shot her at some point um then set her on fire and
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and that's what I kind of always believed mhm and I thought it's open shut case this guy's a
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monster there's proof that he was a monster beforehand before now he was again for
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for people that don't know he was convicted of of a rape back in uh 95 and spent 18 years in prison DNA
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cleared him of that case so so but before that before he was put in jail I think there was some evidence of that
00:07:04
that's what I went into the documentary thinking I I think it was the second episode third episode I watched
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something that was about 40 seconds long I can't explain the feeling I could can't
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explain it to you uh what kind of feeling it was mhm other than like I'm just watching this documentary and I 40
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about 40 seconds of this clip and I just went wait no that guy killed her and that's all I needed to know was
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that clip I actually had to turn off I watched clip a couple times cuz I can't explain to you how overwhelming this
00:07:50
feeling was and so I had to stop the documentary and then I had to look like am I the only one that notic
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this and come to find out that not only um did other people notice this but um you know there's 1,200 pages that um
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Stephen Avery's new lawyer filed against this gentleman um I don't even know if you want to call him a gentleman and you
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have to clue Us in on what you're talking about because I don't know that we know what you're talking about well
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that's the point right now okay sorry I didn't know if you were gonna go into it
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or not no I'm going to go into it but the so what happened uh and again I can't tell you what episode somebody i' have
00:08:35
to go back to like figure out which episode I stopped because basically after I saw this clip the clip
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was uh Teresa's brother talking and her ex-boyfriend his name is Ryan um hillas I believe is how you say
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his name okay and they're talking they're giving an interview to this is after they found
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uh Teresa's U RAV four on the car lot right and they're giv an interview to the media
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and one Ryan's lying he's lying about the statements he's giving to the media and he has this
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giant giant Gump they ask a question and his throat sees is up so hard and this giant Gump
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and I can't explain it other than I see this clip and just went what I mean it just like it was like the Gates of
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Heaven opened up I'm not say anything bad about her brother I don't think the brother is
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involved at all and I'm not 100% certain of any of this I should just be clear right mhm but what I saw was a very
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fishy 40 some seconds of an interview where anytime there was these questions that he then gumps you know as
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Adam apples moves up and down it seems like it's almost hard for him to talk and then a lie comes out of his
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mouth and then a known lie a lie that's something that you know to be untruthful
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something that you can prove that wrong about no no no that's I'm asking you something that you know is
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untruthful right it's what I'm saying is you could hear what he said and then go
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look up what he's talking about and you would find out he's telling them you know false information okay and he does
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it twice and okay so then I just thought okay other people had to notice this right or am I the only one is there some
00:10:58
like higher power calling out to me saying hey look into this gentleman and like I said uh Stephen Avery's attorney
00:11:07
files 1200 page report and a lot of it has to do with Ryan Hast now what's interesting about this is in Wisconsin
00:11:17
the laws are different so the prosecution never had to prove a motive for Steven
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Avery okay but the defense had to prove a motive if if they're going to bring up
00:11:30
another killer they have to actually prove motive so it's strange that the prosecution doesn't have to prove motive
00:11:37
but the defense has to and what people don't really understand too much about this case is that in order to find him
00:11:46
innocent which the first tally seven of the jurors found him Innocent but they would have to
00:11:55
believe the killer quote unquote that the defense is putting forward and their their defense was again framing so then
00:12:05
you'd have to believe that the police killed this innocent girl that's really hard stretch to get to MH and a lot of
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people that watch this documentary think he was innocent uh think that the evidence was
00:12:21
planted and I think they're right about the evidence being planted but it's not by who they think it is the the
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difficult thing about this case so that means the key was already there the blood
00:12:36
already was there what blood wasn't there some first off I haven't watched the thing in two
00:12:44
in over two years right so but there was a key what I'm saying is like if if you're going to say that the
00:12:52
evidence was planted but it wasn't planted by who they think it was planted by then
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what does that mean all of the evidence was planted and it was planted by somebody that we don't know about well
00:13:04
okay so we have a situation where we have this guy that we think is the Killer and guess where her remains are
00:13:11
found burned on his property so that seems pretty open and shut what's different though is once you
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start trying to figure out the timeline and yes Stephen Avery one of the things that it kind of left out in
00:13:27
the documentary is he called her with star 67 to block whatever he was you know to call her he claims that he
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saw her leave based on cell phone ping technology chances are she left based on phone records and her calling her next
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client at roughly the same time that Stephen said she left mhm well if you're going to go to your next client wouldn't
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you call them mhm so all those things happen so there is evidence that she possibly left his property so if she did
00:14:02
leave Steven Avery's property then how did she get back for the murder to take place so that's one angle that you have
00:14:12
to look at the other angle that I think is pretty damning is that there's castoff splatter found in the Rav
00:14:22
4 so they believe that the cause of death is actually through like hammer or Mallet some type of
00:14:32
thing and there's so basically the back of the rav for is like a hatchback you'd
00:14:38
open up that door and there is castoff splatter on the top now that does not get there if you
00:14:44
move a body the castoff splatter only gets there if you're coming back with your hand with an object covered in
00:14:52
blood The Blood cast off of it and hits the back of the rra four so that's kind of
00:14:59
that's different than when the prosecution explained now at some point the prosecution says well she was tied
00:15:06
up no evidence of her being tied up no evidence of ropes being tied anywhere no evidence of shackles being tied to her
00:15:14
feet no evidence of that there's no DNA found in the bedroom of Teresa there's no blood evidence
00:15:24
there's no blood evidence and you're going to say that she you slit her throat in the bed there's no blood
00:15:30
evidence there's no evidence that she was tied to the bed there's actually no DNA evidence of her actually being in
00:15:36
the trailer so what do they do mid trial eh she was murdered in the garage well the problem
00:15:44
is again we don't have the DNA thought they found evidence excuse me they found evidence in the garage they they found
00:15:53
some evidence but it's just like look at the bullet they found they claim they find this bullet well they found 10
00:15:59
casings and they end up finding one where the casing looks like maybe it was used so one of the tests that they're
00:16:06
calling for is to prove that this didn't actually go through bone that it actually went through wood and there's
00:16:15
again not DNA evidence on the bullet so there's a lot of tests that are going to
00:16:21
that she uh and this is what I think making a murderer two part two is going to be about she calls for hundred of
00:16:29
test mhm and one of the things that we do know that we knew at the start of the documentary remains were
00:16:38
moved several times right so the remains are found in three areas one in the Cory
00:16:45
one in um like a drum and one in the the fire pit of the Avery's house now a lot
00:16:54
of experts that have looked at it think that the initial burning started at the Cory then the remains were put into the
00:17:03
barrel from the barrel those remains were then put into the fire pit at the Avery's house they can't tell if
00:17:13
there's if there was any any burning that happened to those remains at the Avery fire
00:17:20
pit so so that that that becomes that's not too weird I mean if if stepen kill he
00:17:28
could have took her out to the Corey and started burning her there and then moved
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here the problem is even people that think that Steven was guilty cannot place that they saw a fire
00:17:40
or anything by the Corey where these some of these people were working so you have the prosecution
00:17:49
trying to create a story their first story doesn't make any sense and then when you look at the confession that
00:17:56
goes along with the prosecut 's first story which they change by the end of the trial so then the confession what do we
00:18:04
think of the confession well 71 times 71 times he denies any involvement so at some point we need to
00:18:17
change this justice system because how many times do somebody have to say I was not involved I don't know anything how
00:18:26
many times do they have to say that because this boy is then he is put in jail spends I don't know eight years or
00:18:36
or so he he's now out of jail but how many times does he has to have to say that he's not involved before we
00:18:46
just stop the interview well zero if he gets an attorney that will represent him
00:18:51
and tell the police to back off right but if you have an IQ of around 70 and your mom's saying hey it's okay to talk
00:18:58
to to the police that's that's a little bit of her fault though right can we agree on that yeah but you could argue
00:19:05
then what's her IQ you know here's the difference is police officers have to be police officers and
00:19:16
the prosecution have to start looking into what is the truth their job is to uncover the truth they may have in this
00:19:24
case not to get a conviction okay let's just talk about the confession what truth did they
00:19:34
uncover there I don't know I don't remember I mean you're asking me about something that I watched two two and a
00:19:42
half years ago I mean right but what I'm saying is okay if they were to uncover this truth then we she he claims she was
00:19:50
tied to the bed arms with ropes feet with shackles there's no evidence of that but there's also no evidence that
00:19:58
that didn't happen no I would say that if you can't find evidence of one rope shackles any
00:20:07
markings of shackles or rope that's your evidence that it didn't happen no I agree also you can't find his DNA
00:20:17
evidence in that bedroom right I agree proving a negative is much harder than proving a positive
00:20:23
right but at the same time it's we don't have um had her remains been found in a
00:20:30
certain way there would have been ways of looking at the body to determine if she was bound and and we didn't have
00:20:37
that because somebody went to the lengths of burning the remains right who knows what lengths they went to inside
00:20:43
that room um to to clean up that room yeah but if you look at the if you just look at after their
00:20:53
search that's not clean the garage was not clean the the I mean basically most investigators would say that garage is
00:21:02
so just normal garage right it that it would be hard to clean a bunch of blood evidence and blood splatter that's going
00:21:13
on to 20 different items you'd have to clean all the items it's not like it was like just a four wall room and there was
00:21:22
some splatter on the walls and you cleaned that off we're talking about if this shot happen
00:21:29
in the garage that you're talking about this could get on maybe a hundred different items right well if you don't
00:21:36
find any evidence of that then maybe it didn't happen and if you're trying to say that this boy's confession is
00:21:42
correct well then when he tells you that he got on top of her and he and his uncle forced him to Slit her
00:21:49
throat where's the blood where's the blood on the bed where's the blood on the headboard where's the blood on the
00:21:56
wall behind the headboard where's the blood in the carpet it's not there cuz it didn't
00:22:03
happen see what I mean well this is why I don't debate cases with people because you're throwing out wha ifs and
00:22:12
when I throw out wha ifs they're they're disregarded um well it's not a what if I'm not throwing out a what if what I'm
00:22:19
saying is they did not find that evidence so we've seen how many cases somebody's throat is slit there's going
00:22:28
to be tons of blood evidence that you find unless you clean it up mhm but normally if somebody cleans it up what
00:22:36
do we find the attempt of them cleaning it up right we don't have either one of those things in this so again and and
00:22:46
this is you know not to debate but what I'm trying to say is this story was wrong prosecution knew the story was
00:22:54
wrong so what did they do halfway through the trial they they changed the story this is not the story that they
00:23:02
gave to the jury when trying to um you know commit uh convict this guy right so they say trailer story doesn't make any
00:23:13
sense we have no DNA of her being in the trailer the only thing that we have in the trailer is a bill of sale and an
00:23:21
auto trader magazine okay was she in the trailer probably not we don't have the DNA evidence to back that up did she
00:23:31
hand him a bill of sale probably did she uh hand him a tra auto trader magazine probably now you could believe the
00:23:42
prosecution story that she was murdered in the garage but therefore if that's the story
00:23:48
the confession doesn't make any sense and therefore you have to then throw it out is what I'm saying mhm because they
00:23:56
fabricated a story they got a guy with a 70 some IQ to go along with their story
00:24:04
when you change the story mid trial therefore you're this this confession is awful now on top of
00:24:13
that you have Brendan's attorney an investigator but he but he's out of prison he's out of prison now yeah and
00:24:21
the reason why is cu his attorney and his the investigator that was assigned to him
00:24:28
were working with the prosecution when have you ever seen a case that the defense lawyer and the
00:24:37
investigator are working with the prosecution MH you never see that I me it's absolutely ridiculous
00:24:47
so anyways that's so to me that's where I stand as far as the confession I do think the
00:24:56
confession was false I think they had a narrative they made him follow that narrative that's what he
00:25:02
confessed to after 71 times of saying I didn't do anything I wasn't involved then he takes a stand and says I made
00:25:10
all that [ __ ] up and then on top of that the his defense attorney lets him talk
00:25:16
with the investigators again why he's on trial to have them try to trip him up again and say Hey you
00:25:25
better tell your mom cuz if you don't we're calling on there mhm so they knew that they could get the
00:25:32
call but here's where here's what's so funny to me a judge then comes in and says your attorney should have never let
00:25:41
you talk to the detectives again so I'm kicking your attorney off the case so then whatever is found after that should
00:25:52
have been thrown out and it wasn't they allowed that to be they allowed that that phone call to his mother to be
00:25:59
heard in court and they also didn't play the last hour and a half of their interrogation tape of him telling his
00:26:07
mom I didn't do anything they got to my head right now why his defense didn't say no we need cuz the defense the
00:26:16
defense agreed to that so that's where I stand on the confession do I think the the cousin had
00:26:23
anything to do with it don't think so I think it's a kid that was facing some challenges and
00:26:30
he didn't know how to overcome this again people say well people don't falsely confess
00:26:36
25% 40 40% in uh kids will false confess so I think just on those numbers okay so
00:26:46
he did some time now he's out I don't think they're going to press charges again so okay so now we're on to the
00:26:52
Stephen A so I see the well for let me let me address this before we move on CU it it
00:26:59
be be going back too far in attacking the system is not always fair in these particular instances when we have
00:27:12
failures by the defense it is not necessarily the system's fault or the system's wrongdoing if somebody is
00:27:22
misrepresent you know has does not have great representation or does not have great
00:27:28
Council well the council was appointed to him by the system but so what's the alternative did you and I pay for a
00:27:39
better defense for him or that you know because we kind of already are in the sense of taxpayer dollars right right or
00:27:47
does he just go with no representation at all no but what I'm saying is I've never heard of a defense attorney or
00:27:56
investigator signed to a case that works the I'm saying that's bad representation right a bad defense right
00:28:06
which they then kicked him off I'm I'm just saying sometimes people attack the system when it's not necessarily the
00:28:15
system's fault no I'm attacking that individual right why would you do that to a client that's
00:28:22
ridiculous why would you be I mean he told the media that his client was guilty and then he lied on the stand and
00:28:29
said I didn't say that then they had to play him a videotape of the guy saying it he's like well [ __ ] I guess I did say
00:28:35
that right I shouldn't have said that well this guy is just a guy that doesn't know how to do his job you know
00:28:42
these these people that are that are paid to defend these people it's supposed to be innocent until proven
00:28:50
guilty these people that are paid to do a job to defend somebody do the job and if you can't do the job and you suck at
00:28:57
the the job then you get fired and then our taxpayer money doesn't go to you because you're
00:29:02
inadequate it should go to people that and he was removed though he was removed from the case so in in that sense though
00:29:11
the system did what it's set up to do he received representation and then the representation was not great and was
00:29:19
removed right and I I think in this case yes did this kid go to jail yes but 70 71 times I think think it was that he
00:29:28
denied any involvement and then at some point he confessed now whether he's challenged or
00:29:35
not that is the consequence that you have to face the defense did the best they could to put on a a good trial I
00:29:45
think they made some horrible mistakes and then he had to pay for those as well which is not a attack of
00:29:51
the system because he's the one that ultimately confessed mhm so whether or not they have the tape of him talking to
00:29:58
the mother and confessing you still have the initial confession mhm but again I hate when
00:30:05
people say the initial confession because there's 71 times of somebody denying that they're involved so what's
00:30:11
the initial confession what they should say is the 70 702nd time that he confessed he said
00:30:19
that he did it 71 times he said he didn't do it so I do think that is some you know
00:30:27
um that's why you should never ever admit to something that you didn't do I think this should be taught to kids you
00:30:37
know well these techniques are um I don't know if they use the read technique when they when they
00:30:44
interrogated or questioned Brendan dassie but the read technique has been proven to lead to many many false
00:30:52
confessions and it's it's it goes back to for me this is where where you don't let your children speak to trained
00:31:02
interrogators trained interviewers to a child regardless if the guy's a genius or if he's walking around with a one IQ
00:31:11
right you know I don't I don't care there's been adults that that are of average IQ or better that have been
00:31:17
tricked into false confessions using read technique or similar techniques so I don't know that we need to I don't
00:31:25
want to get too much into Brandon ny's capabilities or not um I think that you could draw false confession out of
00:31:34
out of a lot of people using some of these techniques it does go back to for me uh Jason Baldwin you know Jesse Melly
00:31:44
and uh Brandon dassie and a lot of these these kids guys and girls their parents
00:31:49
should have stepped in and said nope the I will be in the room with you you can ask my son or daughter whatever you want
00:31:56
I will will be in the room with you I will be the mediator the questions will come to and through me and if at any
00:32:04
point I don't like what's going on in the room I'm going to lawyer up if if you haven't already you know some people
00:32:11
don't have the money and therefore they they got to kind of dip their toe in the
00:32:14
water or test the waters before they go to the expense of a of a lawyer and that
00:32:19
most certainly would have been true in the case of Jason Baldwin but um yeah this is you got to well and and then the
00:32:27
other thing too with the mom I mean she can sit there and blame all these people
00:32:30
and call these people snakes but you also have the opportunity to sitting there with your son and I frankly just
00:32:36
think she was too lazy to do it well and where I think these parents fall into trouble with not watching out not take
00:32:45
having their kids back so to speak is that I think it's some of it's in the wording you know if if I were to talk to
00:32:53
Jason Baldwin's mother and I'm I'm a investigator what I'm going to tell his mother is I need to talk to him because
00:33:02
I think he might have been a witness to a crime and a lot of times people go oh well he just go in there son and tell
00:33:09
him the truth and what what you're not realizing is that the investigator saying I think he witnessed the crime
00:33:16
because he was there and taking part of it right you know taking he had a hand in the in the deal or they actually have
00:33:21
to force your hand saying that you are more involved because they really need to secure your confession now now
00:33:27
regarding Wisconsin law and I'm not going to pretend to be up to speed on Wisconsin law but as far as Court
00:33:35
proceedings go in regards to proving motive or not having to prove motive that we're talking about two different
00:33:42
things here and and we we should be clear about that because from the prosecution's perspective they've
00:33:49
already held Grand jurries before that individual is tried in front of traditional court right so the Grand
00:33:57
Jury has already decided that the prosecution has a case against this individual right so that's why they
00:34:04
don't they don't necessarily need to prove motive they just need to prove evidence that the crime happened and
00:34:10
this was the perpetrator of such now for the defense they have to prove motive if
00:34:16
they're going to bring up an alternative suspect right because the the judge has
00:34:22
to decide what they're going to allow in court because if if they didn't have to
00:34:26
prove some kind of motive or at least convince a judge that there's reason to to mention Nick's name or the captain's
00:34:35
name as a possible suspect in this murder they have to do that because if I were the attorney I could just get up
00:34:42
there and spout off every person that lived in in the city right you know Betty did it oh well we think Joe did it
00:34:48
we think Tommy did it we think Bobby did it you know you could you just be there
00:34:53
for forever with and really just spinning your tires with a bunch of uh nonsense well so again as far as this
00:35:02
confession goes I think there's missteps again from Brendan from his mother from
00:35:09
his family from his lawyers from his defense team and the system and and that's how it went and he did some time
00:35:16
in jail and I think they got him out and I think most people that watch the documentary most people that follow the
00:35:23
case believe he should have been let out whether whether or not you believe him or
00:35:29
not uh some things didn't go the way they should have and so anyways that that wrong I guess is righted for now
00:35:38
right then it comes back to again I don't want this to sound like I don't think Stephen Avery is guilty or that
00:35:47
he's innocent I don't know that's my I don't know but here's what I find here's a couple points of interest that you
00:35:57
might have so this Ryan character he leads the search he's the reason why they're
00:36:07
searching around the Avery property claims that he hasn't been there don't know if we can believe him
00:36:14
on that one he sends somebody out that he doesn't know with a camera with a map she ends up finding the the car ra
00:36:24
relatively quickly so I don't doesn't bother me that she found it quickly what bothers me is I I think
00:36:35
this guy probably knew it was on the property mhm and why did he know that okay so that's kind of fishy let's
00:36:44
get into some more meat and potatoes he is sitting there on the documentary and he's sitting there
00:36:50
talking about the search how it's going to operate and how they're going to do it on his right hand his pink pinky is
00:36:57
black and purple mhm his right hand his pinky is black and purple and it goes all the way from his pinky up to his
00:37:05
wrist black and purple now he either had a hell of a time writing a letter or that was a bruise and that's
00:37:15
on his right hand if you look at his left hand it is clear as day that there is three big
00:37:26
scrapes on his hand huge scrapes somebody he got into a tussle with somebody so he has three cuts that I can
00:37:40
see on his left hand M that's bruising on his right hand I believe he's right-handed he's hitting that hammer
00:37:47
and we know that we have castoff blood what do we know about Ryan well they dated for 5 years no I mean
00:37:56
like are there other reasons that could explain away those injuries does he is he a logger is he in construction I
00:38:05
don't I I don't I don't know look I you can tell me that your cat attacked you all I know is that uh a
00:38:15
couple days after she goes missing you have a attack marks no I'm not saying that that that's not that you're not
00:38:22
speaking the truth I'm just saying if if we're going to be you know if if it's accusatory for um speculation like that
00:38:32
we do need to throw out that there are possibil they they may have ruled this guy out for a reason that that they're
00:38:38
not going to show in the documentary no no no no that's where you have to look at the case File and when you look at
00:38:45
the case File you realize oh it wasn't question it gets even worse hold on so he leads the search team so now he has
00:38:54
these bruises on his right hand he has these cuts on on his left hand I believe if you look at his testimony you can
00:39:00
still see um which it would been way later it looks like there's a like a almost a scar on his hand from from one
00:39:08
of the the cuts and then later on you can see another close-up version of the three cuts on his hand so you have that
00:39:17
that's kind of fishy so then we have this broken tail light that she has Cops want to know she have a broken
00:39:27
tail light so what does Ryan tell her ah she got a broken tail light a while ago
00:39:33
she put a claim into the insurance and she didn't have it fixed and she just paid for it or she just
00:39:43
took the money right right that's what the cops believe they don't check it out because
00:39:51
he's not a suspect because we only have one suspect in this case and he's lying that was a lie there and and we know
00:39:59
this and we know this because because they investigated him who did Stephen Avery's new
00:40:07
lawyer they they also figured out that um he's the one that magically came up with this he's lying in the sense that
00:40:14
she didn't call in the no insurance CLA claim got right so so again this damage and people question this damage saying
00:40:22
that it was not damaged until before which hey if you're hitting some with a hammer you might hit somebody's tail
00:40:29
light so he can't tell you when he talked to her last just watch his testimony on stand it's fishy as [ __ ]
00:40:39
but he's the one that finds the password information so they can get into her phone and get into her phone records
00:40:44
right now there's there's other people there with you but we have in the case where prosecution and defense are going
00:40:53
there's two calls there's two voicemails that are deleted why the cops didn't investigate
00:41:02
this because we have one suspect mhm we have two voicemails that are deleted we don't know why after her death right who
00:41:11
has access maybe the guy that come told you what the [ __ ] password was right maybe the guy that dated her for 5 years
00:41:18
and probably was the same password as always mhm so on top of that the guy that she was
00:41:27
living with that some people claimed that she was having sex with or at least an intimate relationship
00:41:34
with when they said something to him during this investigation that they believe they have a suspect the first
00:41:39
thing he said was you mean Ryan so what there what Stephen Avery's team is trying to prove through these
00:41:48
papers is that Ryan andri said they dated for five years I think there's some reports of
00:41:55
abuse there was some reports of him being controlling him being a little stalker
00:42:03
like at times and so he would see her on I believe that Sunday which he can't remember and so
00:42:15
their theory is that she went you know on the initial um she went to work and that somehow there's an
00:42:25
interference and that he would have um attacked her at some point and then knowing that she was on Stephen Avery's
00:42:34
property I mean this is kind of the theory that they're going on again I don't know how much weight I want to put
00:42:40
into it but once you see the bruising on the hands and you see the cuts on the other hand and then you then start
00:42:47
finding out that he's lying now here's the thing too here's what I here's where I'm
00:42:54
Falling Towards is we have voicemails that are deleted what's the answer for that we
00:43:05
don't know what the answer is but let's say that it was done then can they tell when they were
00:43:12
deleted I don't know for sure because I don't I don't think they know for sure because they didn't investigate
00:43:20
it no I I get that but is there a way to find out like one is there a way to find
00:43:25
out and who do they do they already know because it's one thing to say like there's deleted voicemails but it's if
00:43:33
if they can't prove that if they can't prove that they were deleted after she was killed no they were after or so
00:43:41
there is a way for them yeah and I think that's part of the test that she's trying to get them to let her do is then
00:43:49
she would be able to get that information so that's that's part of the whole I think and I really think this is
00:43:55
what making a murder 2 is going to be about not just him but other people that they didn't follow up as as far as
00:44:02
suspects go okay so here here's the thing is there's certain things in this case that make zero sense at all like
00:44:10
these voicemails if they have something to do with the case then Stephen A stepen Avery is innocent because we know
00:44:18
that he didn't delete the emails or the voicemails right so that's one thing in the case
00:44:25
that never made sense to me you have emails that would or voicemails that were deleted who are they deleted by
00:44:32
that might be your killer if that's the case that points more towards Ryan or somebody that knew her her did they
00:44:39
recover her phone I I don't know I think so cuz you you almost wonder I mean if somebody is in
00:44:54
possession of that phone after she's killed that person is also capable of of removing those voicemails right and in
00:45:01
the documentary it's weird because again they don't talk about Stephen Avery which I think one of the biggest damning
00:45:08
pieces of of evidence against him is that he's calling with star 67 why are you calling with star
00:45:15
67 now he might have made her feel uncomfortable and that's damning on Stephen Avery but
00:45:29
the other thing that I find that everybody finds fishy right follow me on this rabbit
00:45:36
hole for a second evidence there they search for eight days evidence is not found sometimes on
00:45:44
the first day sometimes not found till the third day mhm sometimes not found till the
00:45:50
fourth day like big pieces of evidence stuff about some of the ashes M didn't uncover this way they didn't take photos
00:46:01
of it I'm not going to blame the cops on this one right but there's this search happening now I know it's a big property
00:46:09
right but you don't find some of this stuff in the first eight days but here's what never made sense to me CU they go
00:46:16
oh well there was this key that they found on the third day or the fifth day or whatever it was right mhm the fact of
00:46:22
the matter is you're searching these places that aren't that big with a lot of people and you're not finding him on
00:46:27
the first couple days but then you find him on the next day okay so if Steven Avery
00:46:34
is is innocent then why were these things planted so you would say cops right that'd be the only answer no I the the
00:46:46
documentary and and other people watching it have said police planted these these items and and and and
00:46:53
obviously especially with the key that's the the key that's found in the trailer
00:46:58
yeah it the whole idea is that police returned later and placed it there and then it magically appeared yeah but the
00:47:06
thing that was always weird to me about the key was they made it seem like this key
00:47:13
would had to be cleaned now think listen to this this is what expert said that based off the way they found his DNA on
00:47:22
the key is that that almost the key had to be cleaned and then he touched it right
00:47:31
which is and they say that because they're not finding uh they're not finding the victim's DNA on the key the
00:47:37
person who had the key it was her key right MH is that right okay so the idea being if there if they should find any
00:47:44
DNA on the key it should be hers because the key was in her possession more than
00:47:48
anyone else's right so who cleans a key and then touches is it doesn't make a lot of
00:47:59
sense no and I'm not and I'm not I'm not saying that Stephen Avery didn't saying
00:48:04
just doesn't make a lot of sense right but of course and and there has to be questions in this case or there wouldn't
00:48:10
have been a show you know they wouldn't have been able to lock and lock Us in lock our attention in for how many
00:48:17
episodes was the first season was it 10 yeah it was long okay so it's like 10 episodes it was really long for me
00:48:24
because I had to stop like I said the second episode or the third episode whatever it was when they found that the
00:48:31
Rav 4 and go down these rabbit holes and I was sifting through I mean pages and Pages anything I could find online
00:48:38
because there's a lot of YouTubers that were saying hey this is what she found or this is what she filed and you could
00:48:44
believe that for so much but I I wanted to actually read it so again that so wait are you eating a little crow now
00:48:52
that we're that when you say that you would use this one as a litmus test for the yeah it was a barometer it was like
00:48:59
if you think that he's innocent if you and not so much if you thought he was innocent look you're you you're you have
00:49:07
the right to your opinion once people started saying that the cops planted all the evidence I was
00:49:14
like makes a lot of sense or that the fact that the cops killed her that theory always made me go okay I don't
00:49:23
that seems that seems crazy sorry I can't put it in any other terms well let's okay even if we don't say that it
00:49:30
seems pretty far-fetched so if you're willing to jump to the furthest far-fetched idea now what I'm trying to
00:49:38
say is that this individual Ryan that looks like a pretty good suspect dated her for 5 years there were some issues
00:49:45
there he talked to her a lot I believe he had access to her phone records I believe he had access to her
00:49:54
voicemail if he did have access to this then guess what it's not the first time he checked it then guess what the two
00:50:01
voicemails that were deleted guess what that's him supposedly she's living with Ryan's
00:50:08
best friend then the rumor around town was that roommate situation became intimate this is a this is a cell phone
00:50:19
we're talking about right yeah so what I don't understand is it would be extremely easy to figure out what
00:50:27
numbers left those voicemails it it's not going to be easy to to determine who deleted the voicemails but maybe the
00:50:35
number itself or the message itself is incriminating enough I hope and I think we'll get the answers in season two now
00:50:43
same guy best friend is now having sex with your on again off again girlfriend for The Last 5 Years some of that maybe
00:50:51
you think you're going to marry so now you can't can't cuz she's having sex with your best friend that's your motive
00:51:01
oh guess what she's on a property and that's proven that she was having okay another relationship let me just say
00:51:10
that I think all this will be proven in season two okay I I want you to be clear
00:51:16
cuz sometimes you say things in a way that make it sound like it's it's it's general knowledge hold on when it's
00:51:22
speculation what I want to say is I read so much about this that I couldn't tell
00:51:27
you what 100% was proven what was some things I can I can prove that he's lying to the media I can prove here okay so
00:51:37
the evidence that's found days later that we can't explain why it wasn't there before we have cops saying it
00:51:43
wasn't there before and then people going well it must have dropped from this dresser well
00:51:49
didn't you checked the dresser yeah I checked the dresser or the little cabinet or whatever it is was it there
00:51:55
no it wasn't there 3 days later it was why guess whose search party was allowed on the property
00:52:05
Ryan lies to the media and says we weren't on that property the cops invite the search party to help them because
00:52:14
it's so big so you're given a guy that should be a suspect you're giving a guy access to the crime scene
00:52:26
could he place any evidence that he wanted to yes now if you don't think that's shady
00:52:33
enough one thing that they did prove is that I think at least one time or maybe twice he was on property and he didn't
00:52:46
sign in and one of those times they caught him and said you need to sign in mhm and he refused to or refused to or
00:52:55
maybe he signed in at that point but he was being that's being shady you know you're
00:53:02
supposed to go to a area to sign in before you go search and he's caught on the property without being signed in
00:53:10
right so now you can't tell me and the cops can't tell me nobody can tell me how much he's on that property when he's
00:53:16
not supposed to be or at least not accounted for so if I'm not on that record and you find that key that day
00:53:23
you can't tell anybody that I put it there cuz wasn't even there right so again the bruising on the right hand the
00:53:30
cuts on the left hand again to me now now I'll say this to me you're going to create a you're going
00:53:41
to you're going to commit a murder knowing that she's going to be on the property of a guy that was convicted of
00:53:49
rape a guy that's in the news a guy that you Pro it's such a big property as long as I can get some of her remains
00:53:58
on that property they're going to go after this guy a guy that was wrongfully convicted of R
00:54:05
right but you have to be pretty witty to think of that idea mhm you know something happened so
00:54:15
the rumor is that on that Saturday which he doesn't remember what he did Ryan doesn't remember what he did a bunch of
00:54:21
other eyewitnesses say that's the day he learned that uh he um his ex-girlfriend and his best
00:54:29
friend were now intimate that that's the rumor so but you'd have to be pretty witty and pretty
00:54:38
nuts to think hey I can kill her and put her on this guy's property and they're going to look at him I understand that
00:54:46
that's that's a leap but what we do know in this case is those remains were mov were were moved that that was
00:54:55
scientifically proven so I'm just saying but here's where here's what I'm saying so you'd have to be like I said
00:55:04
pretty witty so if you do have these Cuts or these bruises from the attack then why wouldn't you put on [ __ ]
00:55:12
gloves when you can clearly see these bruise and these cuts and we're not talking
00:55:18
about little tiny Cuts we're talking about uh three cuts that you can see about 20 some feet away right on your
00:55:29
hand so he may have no reason to hide them right that's what I'm saying if he's not involved then it's like well
00:55:35
why the hell would I hide these and get again if he's not involved at all what this does prove to me though is Stephen
00:55:45
Avery's attorney that has gotten 18 18 people out of prison she's pretty freaking smart oh
00:55:57
yeah cuz she can turn and twist The Narrative but I'm just saying based off what I saw and then just rewatch his
00:56:05
testimony it is there some something doesn't seem right there uh I can't wait for uh making a murder part two I was
00:56:15
late to the party I watched making a murder part one a week before part two I can't wait I think there's uh I
00:56:24
think there'll be definitely a couple more off the Record discussions of of different things and look I'm not saying
00:56:31
that Stephen Avery's guilty or innocent I'm not saying that this Ryan guy did I'm just saying it was something in the
00:56:38
documentary that I noticed that like shook me to my core if no I get you but if Stephen Avery is
00:56:46
innocent he is the most unlucky the most unlucky wrongfully convicted person in the history of of Wisconsin
00:56:58
law well let me let me point a couple one thing is the taping of the confessions never was brought into law
00:57:06
until the Stephen Avery bill so it's funny that the bill is brought that you have to tape somebody's confession right
00:57:15
and that's not brought in until Stephen Avery's bill passes and then guess what the first
00:57:21
confession that they use was Brendan's so but here here here's a little thing that
00:57:27
I want to put out there for you because me and you both have talked for a long time and like I said my stance on this
00:57:34
before was he's 100% guilty and that's it let's move on with our lives we have an
00:57:42
individual what did he do so bad what was all these bad things that he supposedly did before he was wrong
00:57:50
wrongfully convicted of rape there's a bunch of rumors we have no proof of this stuff we do
00:57:57
have a we we do have a proof that who ran somebody off the road that the proof of that though his
00:58:05
reason and why he did it was CU she was making up rumors about him but here's a guy that committed some
00:58:13
crimes right every crime that he committed he admitted to there's not a single crime
00:58:25
that I'm I'm talking about before this murder right there's not a single crime that he committed small crimes small
00:58:33
crimes that he did not admit to and then you have a situation where he's on trial for a rape that he says
00:58:43
he's innocent of and then he's in jail longer because they won't Pro parole him because the first thing in the parole is
00:58:51
you have to admit your guilt mhm and he refused do when nobody believed him so then DNA gets him out of jail
00:59:01
mhm so he would not tell you that he did it and one of the things I thought was really interesting was when his sister
00:59:08
said cuz his sister went back and forth oh Steph did this Steven didn't do it Stephen did this but she said something
00:59:15
at the end if Steph did this he would have admitted to it by now and um and I don't know why that you know
00:59:25
there's no evidence or anything but there's just sometimes that you hear a truth or you hear a lie and that really
00:59:32
hits you and it's just like that 41 seconds when Ryan um hillas I think is how you say his name is talking to the
00:59:41
media and it just when she when Stephen Avery's sister said he would admit to it by now if he
00:59:49
did it that that statement Rings true inside hi me and when Ryan is lying to the
00:59:58
media it rings so loud that that's a [Music] [Applause] lie