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GameChanger [Music] [Music] n [Music] directly to the killer who may be in this [Music]
00:01:55
room only a coward would do such a thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
00:02:07
murder two little girls only a coward would do such a thing don't give up we will not
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stop skip give us give me one more time sorry if you already did but I don't think we've have heard it yet the and I
00:02:31
know the story has changed a couple times but what is Cheyenne saying she she arrived parked where walked to where
00:02:38
and we know that at 3:49 according to her story she's posting a a picture online that she said she took that day
00:02:47
yeah she said she got there at 250 um originally said 350 but that again she said she got there at 250 said that she
00:02:55
ran into a girl she was with or knew around that that had gotten there about 2:30 and that girl's name is that girl's
00:03:05
name is believe to be Cheryl laugher okay and uh they went to the other side of the bridge was around the bridge
00:03:11
she's a the picture was supposedly taken around 3:00 the girl she knows goes with
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her yes okay and the P the picture was taken around 3:00 well she's on the bridge at 3:00 how did she not hear the
00:03:23
girls FSG was just coming from the bridge when he saw dererk about 315 320 said he heard heard a couple arguing
00:03:30
under the bridge did she not hear that she's standing right on the bridge at 3:00 yeah and that makes absolutely no
00:03:35
sense because she'd have a clear sight to the crime scene and she would obviously be able to hear something she
00:03:43
claims not to hear or see anything I mean she's on the she's on the bridge in question I mean I don't I don't um I
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don't understand sound travels usually pretty well in an area like that you know in a hollow with there's where
00:03:54
there's water and FSG we don't know if he says he saw Cheyenne or not he never says he said he's never said he
00:04:02
saw Cheyenne okay that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that he didn't tell law enforcement that he saw her but it
00:04:07
but as far as we know we have no no statement of him saying that he witnessed her or saw her and another
00:04:15
young woman on the bridge right yeah we only we only know about his statement from from Derek what are your top five
00:04:21
reasons to make DP the number one person of interest um he's uh changed his story
00:04:29
he uh looks like the second sketch he is uh he knew the girls he uh was at the crime scene the day of the
00:04:39
murders admittedly he's again he's he's he's he's changed stories multiple times
00:04:45
he he injected himself into the case um he changed his appearance you know that and I'm going by things that
00:04:53
that you know the uh law enforcement said that to look out for a bridge guy you know so those would be those would
00:05:02
be the things I think that you know the five or six things like you asked I agree him putting himself at the scene
00:05:07
is very difficult uh that's a that's a very that in itself is a hurdle I mean it it works that way with every case the
00:05:15
person who finds the body the last person to see a person those are always suspects uh and you lump those two in
00:05:22
with the same high probability that you would a boyfriend a husband or anybody on their Inner Circle so that that's of
00:05:30
Interest he's there we you know by his own words he is there and then we have someone else who says he was there as
00:05:39
well sounds like we're questioning her information but be that as it may it sounds like he he was there
00:05:47
second yes his story changing is is difficult why why put yourself there and then change your story unless
00:05:55
it was necessary to uh you you know keep keep some kind of false story going but I do want to
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throw out that eyewitnesses are known to lie to law enforcement if they need to protect themselves and if he was at that
00:06:13
park or meeting somebody at that Park to to have a affair to me that's reason to
00:06:20
believe that that somebody would lie to law enforcement possibly but and I get what you're saying Captain you're you're
00:06:27
absolutely right about that but my my hunch here would be if if behind closed doors they thought that they're
00:06:36
questioning his story they're going to say look we're investigating a double homicide here we don't care if you were
00:06:45
down there smoking a doobie or uh meet hooking up with some girl on the side we don't we need to know what actually
00:06:54
happened flicky flicky and why you were there because if not then you're you're you're at the top of our list and that's
00:07:02
where I go and and I agree with you skip I I 100% where it does appear and I'm going off of the words that were used by
00:07:09
Doug Carter uh in the April 2019 press conference according to what he's saying they were absolutely shifting gears they
00:07:17
had shift gears sometime before that press conference and uh now they were happy to announce it to the world
00:07:23
specifically to the killer himself so you're right something had to have happened or they went down the wrong
00:07:30
path misguided misled at some point early in the investigation or at least prior to April uh
00:07:38
2019 where where I have um qu more questions is that the the things the the things that could lead you to
00:07:49
DP even early on they're all there for you it's not difficult if if what if what we're
00:07:56
saying or what we're speculating is in fact true true it's not difficult to see a connection here uh he he knows one of
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the victims on Facebook says he knows the victims maybe personally or acquaintances or somehow lives lives
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near there he's he's there and and he has a person that's supposedly with him that we don't know who that person is we
00:08:22
can't we nobody we don't have any information stating that there was an actual person with him I what I'm
00:08:29
getting at is and I and I get what everybody's saying about the small town Factor but this I mean deli city police
00:08:37
have been involved Carol County has been involved the sheriff's department they lesby claims that they're the lead on
00:08:43
the on the case if you had to pick one but ISP is there and the FBI are there very very quickly and the FBI and I
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don't think even Indiana State Police are going to get bamboozled by somebody that's well to do and a in a little town
00:09:00
you know we've had early on in this investigation per Doug Carter his words are that over 150 officers have touched
00:09:08
this case in some form or fashion and that's throughout the state of Indiana uh the other thing I want to ask you
00:09:15
about Skip is the U this was new information to me uh you you said gbi was involved in the investigation
00:09:23
correct yeah in 2018 and clarify I'm not questioning that I just had not heard it
00:09:28
tell the listeners and me why gbi was involved again because that's that's the J the I'm assuming you're me talking
00:09:36
about the Georgia Bureau of Investigation yes that's correct um It's Not Unusual for law enforcement to bring
00:09:43
in another group as for a peer review if they are if so they just the case is not
00:09:49
developing like they thought and uh just a fresh set of eyes they brought them in
00:09:54
for that and it wasn't like I said they came in and did did uh looked at it looked at it from like it was a brand
00:10:02
new case looked at everything from the beginning you know left and uh not long after that then that's when the press
00:10:08
conference was when they changed gears uh so I think you know my point is is that if they came in with fresh set of
00:10:15
eyes and and they may they may have taken the bias out of the investigation that hey you guys have been looking for
00:10:21
the wrong guy because you're looking for rsos and serial killers and you're looking for the guy that what you think
00:10:27
uh he looks like in this video and and and in his sketch when the fact is he may not be you know and and
00:10:38
uh that's why that's why that's uh they I don't know how exactly how long they were there or were involved with it um I
00:10:46
just know it was in in 2018 maybe up until even early 2019 but that it's not unusual to bring
00:10:53
somebody in like that the one thing that did change though for the state of Indiana not just for this investigation
00:11:03
but others I believe it was in 2018 that the state started collecting uh those convicted of a
00:11:12
felony connect uh collecting their DNA yeah and so and that's one thing that I think is a little unclear as far
00:11:20
as the Nationwide concept of what's going on in Deli and the investigation itself is you know people keep saying
00:11:29
well if they've got DNA why didn't they pick up their guy they you know he would
00:11:33
be one he has to be in a certain database right like it's not just uh if if you have DNA but nothing to match it
00:11:41
to you're not going to find the person that you don't you don't punch it into your DNA machine and it spits out a name
00:11:47
that says oh you want to go look for the crispy Colonel he's somewhere in Columbus and here's his phone number
00:11:51
that's not the way it works they they get a DNA profile and if there's nothing to match it to there's nowhere to go and
00:11:58
yeah yeah one thing that that definitely changed from from the information I've collected and I you know I'm I'm
00:12:05
fallible like anybody else but uh this in 2018 is when they made that mandatory that if you're convicted of a felony in
00:12:14
the state of Indiana you submit your DNA so if Bridge guy whoever he may be has a
00:12:22
felony or uh sexual assault or anything that you know rape uh something uh in the state of Indiana prior to killing
00:12:32
the two girls on in 2017 he likely isn't in their dat any of their databases yeah and one thing law
00:12:42
enforcement said also is that you know it appears this guy hasn't committed any crimes so that that tells me that maybe
00:12:50
the evidence they have with the partial fingerprint of that DNA doesn't have enough markers maybe they don't have
00:12:56
enough to identify maybe they maybe they have enough to rule out but not identify right and you have because you
00:13:05
have multiple agencies working this case and yes they're working hand inand and they're working together and I and I do
00:13:11
think that they've done a lot of good work even though we sit here and and speculate as to who may have done this
00:13:17
and why it's not been solved all these years later you know you have one agency that says yeah we do have fingerprints
00:13:24
and we do have DNA in this case uh but then when another agency is interviewed they're a little more clear saying yeah
00:13:31
I've we do have that we just don't know if it's suspect DNA or suspect fingerprints we know that we have
00:13:38
fingerprints in DNA that does not belong to Abby or Libby that was found at or near the where we found the bodies uh we
00:13:46
just we can't say until somebody's arrested and charged we can't say if it belongs to the killer or not yeah and I
00:13:53
think again I think the time frame plays a lot into that about when when that question was answered because I think
00:13:59
they were a little more forthcoming early on but I think once they once they realized that this guy has this guy
00:14:06
follows the case is involved maybe in social media including forums and things that about the case listens to stuff
00:14:16
like this I think that's when when that's when they decided to shut it down because they didn't want they didn't
00:14:20
they I think they believe that he has been doing that all along and was possibly the reason for changing
00:14:28
stories is because he he was getting information that they were putting out and changing
00:14:33
to whatever you know fit him you know was whatever was to his benefit so they shut all they decided they just shut all
00:14:41
the information down and I don't blame and and going back to you know law enforcement I think they've done a great
00:14:46
job I think I know there's a lot of people out there who say oh law enforcement doesn't have anything and
00:14:52
and they've done a terrible job they screwed it up totally I don't think that at all uh do I think a mistake was I
00:14:58
think yeah I think I think mistake they've admitted to said mistakes have been made we we in a try to rush to to
00:15:06
solve this he also said that they didn't identify an individual as a suspect early
00:15:13
on to me that's a pretty telling statement yeah that's basically saying that we identified them as something else other
00:15:21
than a suspect exactly well and to to really kind of credit the work that they've been doing
00:15:29
you know we did say or skip you said they may have been told by gbi hey you've been you've been looking in the wrong
00:15:39
direction you've been looking for a serial killer or a Serial offender or uh sexual predator and uh but but to to be
00:15:49
clear and to to credit ISP and those involved they didn't seek out Daniel Nations Daniel Nations be he came onto
00:15:59
their radar because of you know violent illegal activities that he has uh been doing and then they're going oh by the
00:16:06
way he was he was here uh at that time and and should be somebody that should be uh definitely looked at and I I one
00:16:15
thing that I really get a little angry about uh in this case and some people's perception of the investigation itself
00:16:25
I've heard several people talk about to doesn't be like he's some kind of Don knots Sheriff out of Mayberry and that's
00:16:34
not the vibe I get it all I've uh i' I get their County newspaper he has a weekly column in there that discusses
00:16:44
different uh pieces and parts of law enforcement and the job that they do as sheriffs as the the Protectors of Carol
00:16:52
County uh he's very much dialed in I I wish people would would open up their minds a little bit and um Tobe lesen to
00:17:00
me comes off Skip and maybe you'll agree with me and I I know the captain does but he comes off to me as somebody that
00:17:08
wants to say more to the public about the case the evidence and the investigation but in being respectful
00:17:16
with the people and agencies that they have partnered with in this investigation I think he's politely
00:17:22
holding back yeah I would agree 100% I think I I always think about the the uh the statement he made about you know I
00:17:32
know that voice who is that you know um that was that to me that was uh it seemed like he wanted to say more there
00:17:40
you know I think whether it's whether it's saying things debate the guy or or whatever it is I agree with you I think
00:17:47
uh I I I just don't understand the people who say you know who who rip law enforcement for uh they got if listen
00:17:55
look if they got if they got LED astray by somebody and there's uh that's not the worst thing that's ever happened I
00:18:01
can promise you you know and they and that's why again I go back to Carter saying at the 2008 press conference that
00:18:07
were just beginning I think that they realized that all that stuff they had Learned was all based on false
00:18:13
information um and so going forward here's our new guy here's the car we believe he was in we believe he's
00:18:22
definitely local and that go and that and that's in in in direct contrast with what they what they said orally you know
00:18:29
I mean why would you be putting Billboards all over over the country if you thought the guy was
00:18:33
local they were just looking for the wrong guy now why was that I think I know but
00:18:41
other people have you know other people have opinions as well but they were they
00:18:44
were looking for the wrong guy and now they're now I believe they they're zeroed in on who they on who they should
00:18:51
be well and I think that there was a chance that they were you know with the um the the businesses and the the
00:18:58
traffic through that area would lead them to because when when you've worked let's say you've worked in Carroll
00:19:05
County Law Enforcement your whole Adult Career a child abduction murder is one half of 1% of the homicides each year in
00:19:16
this country the very rare so most most law enforcement uh officers and even an agency as a whole you could have a 20 30
00:19:28
your career and never experience it never be involved in an investigation like that and if you know if I woke up
00:19:35
tomorrow and there never was another child abduction homicide ever again praise God but um it's it's a rare crime
00:19:44
and I think that your the gut reaction of most people regardless of Deli Carol County Indiana or Columbus Ohio the
00:19:53
Florida Panhandle or Texas or California regardless of where you're talking about
00:19:57
other like New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago most people the gut reaction is it it had to be somebody that came in
00:20:06
and did this to us did this to one of us and left and you're exactly right I mean
00:20:12
it was the next day as soon as they knew as soon as they found the girls at noon and the the the release from police
00:20:21
has always been we knew we knew very quickly their words were very quickly I have to believe you could
00:20:29
replace that with immediately that this was a homicide and what backs that up is
00:20:37
that within that hour three three uh roadblock checkpoints are set up at least three
00:20:45
that I found where they're interviewing drivers and passengers and stopping vehicles and one of the statements they
00:20:51
had was that that day they uh spoke to at least 600 people in cars yeah and you're right and and they were
00:21:01
looking for someone that would want to leave the area that may not may have just came into the area days before now
00:21:08
uh one thing that we've not touched on on True Crime garage yet and we've covered this case a bunch and Skip again
00:21:14
thank you for your time today talking with us about this case again is in regards to that Nationwide man hunt
00:21:23
which until the guy's caught it's always going to be a nationwide manhunt but in
00:21:26
regards to those billboards one thing that I found incredibly interesting was that on on the
00:21:32
Billboards that were first put up of the picture of of bridge guy and one thing we I I like to underline too when we
00:21:40
talk about the the picture of bridge guy that is the best photo that is the best
00:21:44
video that they have of bridgeguy so to think otherwise is is silliness but they
00:21:51
were posting the picture of bridg guy on these Billboards and early on it said you know
00:21:58
do you know this man last scene February 13 2017 2:30 p.m. which I find to be incredibly
00:22:08
interesting because we know the Snapchat photo was posted there were two Captain
00:22:13
asked if there you know if they were taking more photos or whatnot police would know that they found Libby's phone
00:22:18
analyed family would know that but that that has never been released so we people just speculate about that and and
00:22:27
so we know that she posted two photos and the stamp that we get on those is 2:07
00:22:34
p.m. and they would know based off of the video from finding her phone and analyzing the phone when the video was
00:22:43
taken and we've already said based off of uh technology what what it tells us in regards to the sun and the the bridge
00:22:51
and the shadows and whatnot it's believed that the Abduction of the girls took place between 220 and 240 p.m.
00:22:58
that afternoon very interestingly enough those Billboards say 2:30 p.m. I almost
00:23:05
have to wonder is is the timestamp on that video or on her phone of that video 2:30 PM when he's last seen on the video
00:23:16
because the other statement we have is from I believe it's from Anna who is uh aby's uh mother that says you know Becky
00:23:26
Mike and Anna watched they were allowed to watch and hear the video and Anna says that she could hear audio after
00:23:36
there was she could no longer see anything so at some point that video goes It goes
00:23:43
dark it's it's just recording Blackness maybe it's you know maybe Libby's holding it right up against her leg
00:23:50
maybe she put it in a pocket um as Bridge guy got closer but there was audio that could be heard and that
00:23:57
that's where we get the down the hill from as well so I wonder if that video is and they they put 2:30 p.m. because
00:24:05
they that's the time stamp of that video that's a that's a good point um it would
00:24:12
make sense you know because when the the uh picture was uh put up at 207 they weren't all the way across the bridge I
00:24:19
think they were about maybe 2third or about halfway so it would have taken him a little and you don't see you don't see
00:24:24
him in the background coming yet so it would have made sense that they would have kept walking and going back toward
00:24:30
the end of the bridge because they were at the end of the bridge when they were filming him uh so that would make sense
00:24:35
TimeWise also um makes that's one of the reasons I said 2:30 to 3:30 underneath that bridge because from what I gather
00:24:43
from this guy who I locally I know who said that they that law enforcement knows that BG was around 20 minutes
00:24:50
after Derek had gotten there so if they know that then they know he was around till about 3:35 approximately um say say
00:24:59
that again skip say that again that law enforcement knows he told there were several things he told me that that
00:25:05
everybody wasn't privy to one of the things was that they know law enforcement knows BG was there until 20
00:25:10
minutes after Derek had had gotten there so he got there about 3:15 that puts BG
00:25:16
there till 3:35 now he didn't explain how they know that I'm guess I'm guessing it probably had something to do
00:25:23
with them seeing him leave at a you know because if you remember early on there was a the law enforcement asked if
00:25:30
anybody saw anybody walking along the hoer Heartland Highway uh that afternoon with a duffel
00:25:38
bag well yes if you parked at the CPS building and if you even if you left the bridge and went through the woods and
00:25:45
and exited there you the the the CPS building sits right in between Highway 300 and the hoer Heartland Highway okay
00:25:54
and you and you have it's a wide open view so if he was walk walking from where the where the trees start to there
00:26:02
and somebody saw him that very likely could have been who they saw walking from there to the CPS building you know
00:26:10
so because they would have seen him they would have thought he was walking along
00:26:13
the hoer Heartland highway but he's actually walking more coming from the woods but that's that's somebody who
00:26:18
where somebody saw him walking so I think that's a possibility that that's how they know uh that time they just put
00:26:25
it together from how long it would take him to get from the crime scene to to that
00:26:33
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or visit angie.com today you can do this when you Angie that [Music] [Music] and Skip you know the witnesses or the
00:29:10
people that were there better than than I do so while we have you on the phone here I want to make sure that I ask you
00:29:17
this um there was a statement and this plays along what exactly what we're talking with right now there was a
00:29:24
statement that I found early on that said woman I couldn't find much more about this I couldn't find you know the name
00:29:33
of this woman but a woman who said that she saw a man leaving the cemetery that afternoon and I i' I've
00:29:44
been looking through my notes here this morning trying to find if I if I wrote down a more exact time other than that
00:29:50
afternoon and I I can't find uh a time that I put with that so one thing that you know one thing that I found to be
00:29:59
very interesting in this case but I do this in every case and but especially in this one you know we we're analyzing
00:30:06
What doug Carter was saying at the 2019 press conference under a microscope but you do that because
00:30:15
that's not Doug Carter just getting up there and riffing you know that's not just him talking off the cuff that is a
00:30:23
a statement that was pieced together very carefully by multiple people in a room together agreeing on what we're
00:30:32
going to be saying now we do have Carter who does later say there are a couple things that he threw in there himself
00:30:39
but the Gen but the basis of it is h a statement that was put together by the investigating collectively by the
00:30:46
investigative agencies now I have to believe knowing what we know about John Douglas and the FBI and uh things that
00:30:54
they've done during his career and Roy ha Wood's career and Robert wrestler's career that those words were
00:31:02
probably pieced together very much with the help of the FBI or with their at least with their advice so when looking
00:31:10
at words and and how we choose to put out certain words and certain statements regarding this case the
00:31:20
investigation and such the evidence to hear a woman said she saw a man leaving the
00:31:29
cemetery that afternoon very interesting and it goes back to what you were talking about with
00:31:35
the car at the uh CPS building notice the witness doesn't say she saw a vehicle or a man driving a
00:31:44
vehicle leaving the cemetery which we know there were parking spaces there she says she saw a man that to me implies a
00:31:54
single individual male individual on foot leaving the cemetery that afternoon and just just like you were
00:32:02
saying skip about the um they were asking for a driver you know that I believe I'm gonna
00:32:10
try to get as yeah I'm gonna try to get it as close to verbatim as I can based off of memory but they're asking they
00:32:17
said if you parked a car there that day or you know someone parked there that day we want to
00:32:25
hear from you but they start off the state with saying uh we are looking for the driver of or if you know the driver
00:32:32
who parked at the which again we're really we're really kind of analyzing this and and being very
00:32:40
suspicious about everything but it almost sounds like we have we have there's at least
00:32:49
some thought here that we think you may have been driving somebody else's vehicle yeah the exact exct statement
00:32:54
was we're seeking The public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS DCS building
00:33:01
welfare building in the city of Deli that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300 so yeah they're OB he
00:33:08
they're asking yeah I agree they're you know asking about the driver so seems Seems to uh make sense that they would
00:33:14
know what who the car or the what the car is and who the car belongs to you know and kind of cross referencing
00:33:19
information here with them saying we believe this person is either was either local at the time or has local ties to
00:33:27
Deli you almost have to wonder did somebody did somebody see a plate and it was an Indiana plate maybe they don't
00:33:34
have the plate number but they recall uh yeah it was an Indiana license plate yeah I mean it's definitely possible I
00:33:41
and I think it I think I find it interesting that that's the first thing they they uh that they lead the press
00:33:46
conference off that way you know as the as the attention getter you know it's well and it's also weird like
00:33:53
first impressions are everything right your your first impression and your last impression and it's it starts off with
00:34:00
with that's the information we're seeking oh by the way we're going to be giving you some more information which
00:34:05
is I I don't I'm not going to pretend to be you know somebody that understands how you should deliver things in the
00:34:13
best way to get what you want from the people you are addressing but it almost felt like when you're releasing a new
00:34:19
sketch and then you're releasing a a little piece of a video and telling the public that you're changing directions
00:34:25
in your investigation felt like you know the captain and I watched that press conference together when it when it went
00:34:31
down that day and it almost felt to me like if I would have walked out onto the streets like Family Feud and interviewed
00:34:38
a 100 people I feel like 99% of them would have forgotten about the whole vehicle parked Thing by the end of that
00:34:47
press conference yeah but not that suspect right you that's the thing I mean who who was he who was he
00:34:53
addressing that part too and that's why I think maybe he was it was he was letting the guy hey this this is the
00:34:59
part that had us confused but we figured it out well and if this suspect that you're talking about DP is Bridge guy
00:35:08
then he's Brash and if the rumors are true about the staging of the crime scene and some of the horrific stuff
00:35:16
that I've heard rumored to be you know they say he has a shred of decency left to come
00:35:25
forward maybe he does n but maybe somebody Shelby Cheryl or the Cheyenne even though her stories haven't lined up
00:35:34
and maybe they could come forward and have some piece of information and again law enforcement
00:35:43
has said over and over just one piece of information is all we need and then we get this guy and if you have any doubt
00:35:51
that th that you're covering for this person if you have any thought in your head that this individual DP is
00:35:59
responsible for these murders you have you owe it to yourself you owe it to the community you owe it to those two girls
00:36:07
you ow owe it to Abby and Libby to come forward and and talk to police and tell them the true story why wouldn't he come
00:36:15
forward it's I mean it's again it's hard to say why somebody they don't come forward or whatever like I said there's
00:36:20
there's a lot of reasons um it could be I would I would suspect to at least give
00:36:25
them the benefit of the doubt that was probably innocent originally they didn't realize what they were giving a an alibi
00:36:31
for now I would say it's time it's time for them to uh to come clean and uh and tell what
00:36:39
they tell what they know you know and what about dp's girlfriend it's like again you probably have some information
00:36:48
that you could share with law enforcement and why aren't you doing that one he's saying that he was there
00:36:53
cheating on you so what kind of scum bag is that and and is that all you think you deserve in this world is a guy that
00:37:01
cheats on you or a guy that lies to you is that all you think you deserve maybe you should think that you deserve better
00:37:09
and come forward and talk to the cops and tell them what you know cuz maybe you're the missing link and you owe that
00:37:14
to yourself to your child you owe that to Abby you owe that to Libby I I did want I did want to go back to clarify
00:37:22
one thing though about about BG following the case and I think that's because I think that's a crucial part
00:37:28
because I think the post crime activity in this case is is is kind of has a lot to do where reason it led me to this was
00:37:36
one of the things Carter says not too long in in a television interview not too long after the press conference he
00:37:43
said I think the Killer is following this investigation very closely he said when we and then they asked him about
00:37:49
releasing the second sketch he said when we decided that through the information
00:37:52
we received that we were going to release the second sketch I don't believe the individual knew knew we were
00:37:57
going to do that so it was really really important I think he was probably there
00:38:01
or watching simply because he thought we were on the wrong path I mean car I mean he's basically telling you what you
00:38:10
need to know there I mean he's basically saying the killer thought they why would
00:38:14
the killer think they're on the wrong path yeah because they may maybe because he let him maybe because he let him down
00:38:21
the wrong path because because he pointed him in that direction I mean you mentioned you mentioned earlier Nick
00:38:27
that some things seem simple there are things about this case that that that are very simple but there's ALS it's
00:38:32
also very complex in the in the in the uh think in the post crime uh stuff that's going on with all the
00:38:39
misinformation and and misdirection uh and false stuff that's been put out there and I think most of
00:38:46
the stuff you seeing out there has been kind of orchestrated I don't think it's just been by chance of people random
00:38:51
people following the case I think there's uh look the guy did a good job for two years years of keeping keeping
00:38:57
him off his Trail off off his tail off his Trail they they've it's uh now that they're on it maybe maybe he's trying to
00:39:04
do it through social media yeah you what you're saying is I'll expand on that a little bit to to kind of fill in some of
00:39:11
the blanks there but what you're saying overall is that we would be foolish to believe that at some point BG is not is
00:39:19
not only listening reading watching what he can find on TV and on the internet or
00:39:27
these garage podcasts whoever would be dumb enough to do one of those but um they he's not only doing that but he
00:39:34
could actively be throwing in weird statements uh posting things like one of the victims was pregnant you know there
00:39:43
was this found at the crime scene or one of the Searchers said they saw this that
00:39:47
day uh he could throw any of these things if if he if what you are saying is correct Skip and you know people some
00:39:56
people are going to listen to this and they're going to they're not going to like you they're not going to like me or
00:40:00
the captain for having this conversation but the one reason why I wanted to have
00:40:04
this conversation with you and I had spoke with you until till right now until today was the theory was
00:40:10
interesting on its face and it remains interesting after I speak with you not just because of the points that you've
00:40:17
brought up and the the interesting angles and things that you presented here but also you are not one of these
00:40:27
you're not one of these crazies that go this is what happened I know it all this
00:40:30
is how it went down and not willing to believe anything else and that's why I like talking with you today and and I
00:40:38
appreciate you for being that way because so many people with this case and other cases have decided for
00:40:43
whatever reason they know exactly what happened and you can't tell them otherwise and anybody that says
00:40:51
otherwise is a complete idiot and I like to remind those people that if if you were right then then why
00:41:00
is it not solved we won't know until it's solved and there's no harm in having these conversations and doing
00:41:07
these types of exercises when something is not solved there's no nothing wrong with looking at things through from a
00:41:14
different angle under a different light from time to time and just asking the question why and you've done a great job
00:41:23
of of coming up with this Theory and and and piecing it together um well it's a pretty simple idea if you claim that
00:41:33
you're there and then your story has changed multiple times then what is the reason for lying and by definition this
00:41:44
eyewitness should then turn into a suspect this eyewitness should turn into a person of interest and when you look
00:41:52
at this case for the last four years every person of interest that has brought been brought to the table no
00:41:58
matter what crime they did or didn't do what you could never prove with any of those Persons of Interest is that they
00:42:06
were there the day uh that they were there that day at that bridge at that time frame uh and were capable of of those
00:42:17
murders yeah there there's a lot of stuff that we hadn't had a chance to go over just because of time but but um but
00:42:24
like we talked about before like having you be available to people on the blog absolutely I'd be I'd be happy to
00:42:31
answer any questions feel people feel people in on any uh gaps they have kind and just and there's like I said there's
00:42:38
more Nuance obviously in a case like this than than um and we were able to talk about today you know I agree with
00:42:45
with the captain about you know the basic things there about you know why you lie to law enforcement why do you
00:42:50
you know law enforcement tells us that this guy's following the case and they tell us that that they was a changing
00:42:56
changing the reason for the change and all that so there's a lot there's a lot out there and like I said it is simple
00:43:04
but it's complex you know we didn't talk about things like motive and all that kind of stuff but you know it's uh
00:43:09
hopefully the hopefully the right person will hear uh and hopefully the right person will will change their mind on
00:43:17
what they think's the the right thing to do well and you know with other cases U
00:43:22
Todd Kap for instance he went into super bike gunned down a bunch of people killed them later he took a hostage
00:43:30
killed the uh host's boyfriend or husband and he was he was a felon before that he was a convicted felon before
00:43:39
that well everything I just mentioned to you are crimes that involved handguns and firearms and and he should not have
00:43:47
had those and we said on our show when we covered his case you know it would be why is law enforcement not pursuing the
00:43:54
person that gave him or sold him these guns in some Backwoods deal because he's not allowed to to own
00:44:02
them that person has some accountability in coab's crimes and it was probably of
00:44:08
course it wasn't at our doing we didn't have anything to do with it we're two two guys in a garage but it was months
00:44:14
later eight months later they arrested the person that sold them the guns here in this situation you have the same
00:44:20
thing if there is somebody that is providing this false Alibi or false narrative for having seen things or or
00:44:27
not seen things on that day in February in 2017 you need to come clean with that
00:44:35
now because there will be an aftermath this bridge guy will be identified caught and convicted and when that
00:44:43
happens you're the next one you're you're butts on the fire next so you're fine now yeah I know you probably are
00:44:50
sitting here listening to this going what do you mean I'm fine it's been four years Nick no you're fine now because
00:44:56
they don't know who BG is as soon as they know who he is that's when your that's when your feet will be held to
00:45:02
the Flames so go tell them what you know now or if you if you made something up or if you just wanted to be a part of it
00:45:09
because it's something and you want to be something there's yes it's it's embarrassing yes
00:45:16
there is some shame that comes along with that but at the end of the day you can know that you did the right thing
00:45:21
and you can know that you you do you no longer can be held accountable because you've you've you've said what
00:45:29
the truth is now skip I don't want to get into any details but again my own curiosity and kind of piecing together
00:45:40
where I think what your overall story would be I've always believed and I and I still
00:45:47
do and and will until we until we have all the answers that this was a sexually motivated abduction and I want to leave
00:45:55
it at that I want to be very clear about my thoughts that I've always believed that this was a sexually motivated
00:46:00
abduction it sounds to me like you without again without getting into details and going too far down any roads
00:46:07
here other avenues it sounds to me like you feel this was a little more targeted at least
00:46:15
one of the victim was was a Target and this possibly was a personal cause homicide yes and and the other victim
00:46:25
may just be collateral damage unfortunately yeah sad it really is well sad both both but of course yes yeah I
00:46:34
think I think you know a lot of people obviously a lot of people are following this case and there's a lot of web
00:46:39
slutes and I think a lot of a lot of those people have gotten things right I think there's a drug component here I
00:46:44
think there's a Revenge component but I don't think they're exact they they're exactly the aspects of what people think
00:46:50
they are unfortunately this may fall back come back fall back on a family member in terms of not that they were
00:46:57
involved in the crime at all the source of this personal Vendetta may have originated there and I think that's
00:47:04
unfortunate and I hope that doesn't go in have anything to do whether this crime is solved or not but yeah I think
00:47:10
I think it's more I do think it's uh there is a drug component like I said and a and a Revenge aspect but it but
00:47:16
it's more personal than [Music] that join our discussion if you have questions for skip he will be available
00:47:34
he'll be answering questions on our blog all week so make sure if you have any questions about the information he's put
00:47:41
in out you can ask him there at true Crim garage.com Colonel do we have any recommended reading for this week this
00:47:50
week Captain we are recommending alligator Candy by David Kushner this is from award-winning journalist and
00:47:57
regular contributor to Rolling Stone magazine David Kushner gives us alligator candy a memoir about family
00:48:04
survival and the unwavering Power of Love in 1973 David's older brother was murdered in decades later David found
00:48:13
himself unsatisfied with his memories of this tragic life defining moment so he decided to revisit the episode Through
00:48:20
The Eyes of a reporter this is one of the best books that I have read in a while is available in all forms but the
00:48:27
audio version with a brilliant performance by bronz and pincho is particularly good check out aligator
00:48:34
Candy by David Kushner and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause]
00:48:54
litter [Music] you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
00:49:20
your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
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visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that