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00:01:42
welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
00:01:48
as always is a man that is here to sprinkle a little magic dust on the situation here is the captain this magic
00:01:55
dust has my allergies going nuts it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for list listening thanks for
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telling a [Music] friend this week we are very excited to be featuring instant Snowman from the
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good folks over at Fork Creek Brewery in Defiance Ohio instant snowman is a New England style hazy IPA with insanely
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cool down on a hot day instant snowman garage grade four out of five bottle caps and we have some cheers to our good
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friends for helping us out with this week's shows first up a cheers to Christina from the greatest small town
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ever Chapel Hill Texas and a big shout out to chrisy in Bucksport Maine and last but certainly not least we throw
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our tall cans in the air for Megan and Cleveland that's believeland Ohio everybody we just mentioned went to true
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True Crime garage.com Colonel that is enough for the business all right everybody gather
00:03:19
around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] we cover these kinds of stories from
00:03:51
time to time and it never gets any easier stories that involve the senseless murder of children last week
00:04:00
we told the True Crime tale of an innocent little child walking to church no less taken off the streets just a
00:04:08
couple of blocks from her home and then executed her body discovered just a few hours later in a Ravine and a forest
00:04:18
preserve what kind of monster could shoot a little girl in the head then just one day later and two
00:04:26
states away two girls walking home one of them is grabbed and stolen in the night just four houses away from her
00:04:37
own she met a similar fate as the first girl was found just a short drive from where she was
00:04:45
abducted what kind of monster could kidnap one sister in front of the other and in plain view of so many houses only
00:04:55
to leave her body in the cold dark woods the answer in both cases is the kind of monster who was
00:05:04
left to walk around a free man while early on it seems investigators were looking for a
00:05:13
connection between the two murders but after a few days they failed to find one and so the two homicide
00:05:22
investigations parted and went their separate ways police in Chicago landed on the
00:05:28
theory that a local man who likely committed several similar crimes was probably responsible for the murder of
00:05:36
the little girl who never made it to church that Saturday morning in Ohio the sheriff and the
00:05:46
people of the Tiny Town of paing could never quite agree was it a local man or someone driving through who spotted two
00:05:55
sisters walking in the dark and then forever took one away the individuals responsible for these
00:06:02
heinous acts never paid for these crimes not these crimes anyway now today we continue to look for
00:06:11
these monsters because even if they themselves are dead Justice still has not been
00:06:20
served on that terrible weekend back in November of 1960 evil one twice this is true crime
00:06:33
[Music] [Applause] [Music] garage [Music] [Applause] like last week we told you about the
00:06:50
horrifying abduction and murder of two girls Gloria kallwitz in Chicago who was just 9 years old and also Nancy eagle
00:06:59
son a 14-year-old from paing Ohio early on the two murder investigations shared the same suspect this was 17-year-old
00:07:09
Robert Lee stovel who was questioned about both murders extensively this after he was arrested in Indiana found
00:07:17
by police there sleeping in a stolen car the car he was found in was reported stolen from the Chicago area police
00:07:26
wondered if Robert had stolen the car and killed the girl in Chicago before leaving the state and while traveling
00:07:34
through Ohio spotted Nancy and was also responsible for her murder all before turning around and heading back to
00:07:42
Illinois police determined that Robert stoil lived in Jacksonville Illinois and was recently released from the State
00:07:50
Mental Hospital there this of course did not go along with Robert Lee sto's Story
00:07:56
who first told officers that he lived in Montrose Michigan Michigan and was a mechanic for the General Motors
00:08:02
Corporation when he was arrested for the stolen vehicle the state trooper discovered blood stains on the inside of
00:08:10
stovall's coat and on his trousers and that is how he found himself involved in not one but two homicide investigations
00:08:20
Robert Lee stovel had a lot of miles on him for a 17-year-old he looked a little too
00:08:26
rugged and too dirty for 17 and frankly probably could have passed for 23 or 24 years of age he was described as a
00:08:37
goateed beatnik type and he told officers what they called fantastic stories about his whereabouts that
00:08:45
weekend he told police that the car was not stolen and in fact he had borrowed it from his sister or maybe it was his
00:08:53
sister's boyfriend but of course it wasn't his sister or even her boyfriend's vehicle the car was in fact
00:09:01
a stolen car he told police that his clothing became Blood Stained in a Tavern brawl in Detroit investigators
00:09:09
took note of stovel having been a patient at the mental hospital and described him as a psychopathic liar
00:09:17
sto's clothing was sent to the Chicago crime laboratory for examination Robert leoville was charged
00:09:24
with aotto leny but he quickly and quietly Fades from the newspapers and both murder investigations without the
00:09:32
public being told exactly why but we can look at these cases and arrive at some possible
00:09:40
conclusions last week here in the garage the intention was to solely focus on and
00:09:45
explore the Nancy eagleson murder the Ohio case in just two episodes however Gloria's case is a part of the story and
00:09:55
again still unsolved so that warranted fur further examination to tell a more complete story we decided to go to four
00:10:03
episodes and take a really good look at both cases this week we will really be focusing in on Nancy eagleson's case so
00:10:13
why would the authorities move on from Robert Lee stovel in both murder investigations well consider the
00:10:20
evidence stoval is arrested about 5 miles east of leaport Indiana so proximity doesn't really put him up
00:10:29
front and center on either murder or doesn't but the car he was found sleeping in was reported stolen from
00:10:36
Chicago so the car puts him at the center of Gloria's case correct but in Gloria's case they also have a decent
00:10:44
amount of evidence remember that they have a finger and or palm print we say either because it was reported both ways
00:10:53
from all that I have reviewed I believe that it's likely that they had both a fingerprint and a part partial palm
00:11:00
print this was found on the victim's purse there was a tire track found at the scene where Gloria's body was
00:11:08
recovered we know the blood stained clothes were being examined and stoval shoes were sent off for analysis as well
00:11:15
they were checking mud from the shoes law enforcement knows he's from Illinois and now he's saying he got in this bar
00:11:21
fight in Detroit well he'd have to go through Ohio to get to Detroit exactly so with this evidence they would have
00:11:29
ways of not necessarily clearing stoo but they may have ways of moving on from him from glorious murder because of the
00:11:38
evidence now one real troubling thing about stoval being a good suspect in Nancy eagleson's case is the timing of
00:11:46
everything the captain just pointed out that the car was stolen in Illinois and then he says he was up in Detroit he
00:11:53
would have had to go through Ohio at some point and unfortunately Northwest Ohio is where he would need to travel
00:12:00
through and Nancy eagleson was murdered in northwest Ohio but the troubling thing for him to
00:12:08
be a good suspect in nany's case again is the timing the reports are not really clear here on what time Robert Lee
00:12:16
stovel was picked up by police in Indiana just that it was Sunday night well we know that Nancy was abducted at
00:12:25
approximately 7:40 to 7:50 p.m. that SU right I'm not really wondering about what time he was arrested there because
00:12:34
leaport is not terribly far from Pauling but time and distance alone could potentially eliminate stoval from
00:12:43
having committed the Nancy eagleson homicide to give a little more perspective depending on current day
00:12:49
routes from paing to 5 miles east of leaport where he was picked up it's about a 2hour and 30 minute to closer to
00:12:58
a 3 hours drive so if he's picked up 30 minutes 1 hour or 90 minutes after Nancy
00:13:05
was abducted it makes it very difficult nay impossible for stovel to be responsible
00:13:13
for ny's murder the other thing too is he tells the story of being involved in a bar fight in Detroit Michigan and I
00:13:21
know they are calling him a liar and he's been telling these air quotes fantastic stories but is there a chance
00:13:29
that upon further checking law enforcement is able to determine that yes he was in a bar fight in Michigan
00:13:37
why or whatever the cause police in both cases moved on from Robert Lee stovel well just because he's a known
00:13:45
Psychopathic liar doesn't mean that he's a psychopathic killer why or whatever the cause police in both cases moved on
00:13:52
from Robert leoville so will we as well so the next item on our Nancy the eagleson investigation timeline is a
00:14:01
strange one Captain this is when it is reported that quote authorities admitted their investigation of the slanging of
00:14:09
Nancy eagleson was pretty well at a standstill note the date of this statement this is on November 16th Nancy
00:14:20
was killed on the 13th the body was found in the small hours of the 14th how are we already at a standstill right is
00:14:29
this the sheriff telling us less than 72 hours into the investigation that the case has already gone cold or maybe he's
00:14:36
telling us that he's incompetent you have to wonder is this comment more in direct relationship to connecting the
00:14:43
two cases that we've already discussed well that's a good point the koala witz case in Chicago and the paing case of
00:14:51
Nancy eagleson and then the suspect Robert Lee stovel altogether because he's in the news quite a bit for those
00:15:00
first two days he Fades from the news and it's at this same time that we have the sheriff this is Sheriff Keeler in
00:15:07
Pauling Ohio saying the case is pretty much at a standstill well even if this is where you're at cuz look you know
00:15:14
there's that show you just brought it up off air the show The First 48 The First
00:15:20
48 being the most important well yeah I guess they're really important in this case but even if you came to a
00:15:29
standstill after a couple days you don't need to address this to the media yeah this is something that you write in your
00:15:36
notes to not say yeah to the newspaper reporters and what's funny do not tell them we don't know what we're doing we
00:15:45
got nothing in our investigation and what's interesting too is the Articles themselves are quite short so there's no
00:15:52
room for explanation as to what that statement means what it's in direct relationship to and I'm sure that's the
00:16:00
trouble right when you when you speak to somebody else and you're talking about an investigation or you're talking about
00:16:07
something as important as this you are then relying on them to understand that information correctly and then deliver
00:16:16
it properly to the audience and who knows Sheriff Keeler may have gone into great description and great detail about
00:16:27
what he meant and what he was talking about and those words just failed to make it to the Articles right so we got
00:16:34
to look at it and say well maybe Keeler did know what he was doing maybe the person that wrote the article painted
00:16:40
him in a poor light or didn't know what they were doing all right Captain so should we do a review of the timeline
00:16:48
simply because it's been a few days since most people have listened to ny's case or should we do a review of The
00:16:56
Evidence first I'm going with what's behind door number one let's start with the timeline I like it I like it I'll
00:17:03
tell you what why don't we do kind of both at the same time considering that we just pointed out not too long ago how
00:17:10
the timeline can be evidence itself well that wasn't the options you gave me right so Captain approved due abides
00:17:18
let's move on whatever you want the timeline is as such November 13th 1960 around 2 p.m. Nancy and her sister leave
00:17:27
home to see a movie after this movie the girl stopped for a soft drink and then went to the bowling alley before heading
00:17:35
home on foot this is in the 700 p.m. hour closer to 8:00 p.m. the two girls notice a car is following them the car
00:17:44
stops to ask them if they would like a ride and we know that Nancy the older sister who's 14 explains to the driver
00:17:52
no we are getting close to our home we are only a few houses away M between 7 :40 p.m. and approximately 7:50 p.m.
00:18:01
Nancy is abducted by the man driving the car right in front of her sister Cheryl
00:18:07
Cheryl is very little at this time she's only 5 years old she says that the man threw Nancy into the back seat of his
00:18:15
car let's examine this this is very bizarre to me we know from covering so many of these cases that the perpetrator
00:18:23
especially in an abduction what they want to do is control their victim this man does not want Nancy to
00:18:30
escape this man wants to control her yet according to our surviving witness the man threw her into the back
00:18:39
seat of the car and of course he's going to have to drive the car from the front
00:18:43
seat this complicating the situation of trying to control her as he's fleeing from the abduction scene well it's
00:18:50
possible that there's somebody in the back seat that she didn't see that is one thing that I always thought there
00:18:56
could there be somebody that was maybe lying down or concealing themselves in some Manner and helping and assisting
00:19:04
and this wasn't just a single purpetrator that there was more than one person involved the other thing too that
00:19:10
we also have to consider is this is a lot of things happening very quickly Cheryl explained to us us two garage
00:19:19
guys here that she was already afraid when she felt the presence of the vehicle following them and so maybe the
00:19:26
memory's not spot on maybe it's not 100% that is her story that's what she stuck to for all of these years so we
00:19:33
just have to believe it but she was five she was 5 years old and again terrified
00:19:37
at the situation yeah and you can't blame her if her memory isn't correct if she doesn't remember every detail my my
00:19:45
thought would be is this a two-door car or a four-door car the witness Cheryl she says that it was a four-door vehicle
00:19:52
because that makes more sense on tossing her in the in the back because it'd be easier to
00:19:58
actually do that anybody with a two-door car knows that you'd have to lift up the
00:20:02
seat and you know move things around just to get into the back seat and maybe has he set up this situation so that his
00:20:10
car is kind of rigged like a police car where if you put somebody in the back seat they can't open the doors anyway
00:20:16
right I mean we know that other perpetrators other Killers have outfitted their vehicles or Rigg them up
00:20:23
so that the passenger or the victim or the abducted person is at a significant disadvantage once they are inside the
00:20:31
vehicle Ted Bundy altered his vehicles in many different ways right Edmund keer did something as simple as taking a
00:20:40
little chapstick a little you know one of the little chapstick things and wedging it
00:20:46
down in the door handle so when you tried to pull open the door using the handle it wouldn't go all the way you
00:20:52
couldn't pull it open all the way and get you know allowing the vehicle door to open and and maybe this killer had a
00:20:59
destination spot because like we know she was found not that far from where she was
00:21:06
abducted so was it let me put her in the back seat I'll drive as fast I can to that
00:21:13
spot and then I get out of the car to controller so after midnight on the 14th this is around 2 a.m. ny's body is found
00:21:21
by hunters now let's pause and hone in on this for a minute right the abduction location was in a housing area of State
00:21:31
Route 111 the spot where Nancy was taken from was well lit she was abducted in full view of seven houses the state
00:21:40
route runs between the Indiana state line and the City of Defiance Ohio most of this route is a rural two-lane
00:21:47
Highway and passes through both farmland and Residential Properties the body recovery location is a rural wooded area
00:21:57
near junct Ohio so ny's body was found by hunters approximately 100 ft off of paing County Road
00:22:06
176 this is just 7 miles from ny's home and the abduction location right and as we explained last week this road takes a
00:22:16
couple of Curves but it's pretty much a straight shot if you stayed on Route 11 and just didn't turn left to continue on
00:22:25
to Route 111 because it cuts the and it goes left if you just went straight ahead you're now on paen County Road 176
00:22:35
so it's essentially the same road now what is weird here Captain is I walked the abduction scene with Cheryl
00:22:46
and she explained everything as she remembered it from that horrible night back in 1960 right then afterward she
00:22:56
got in her car I got mine and and I followed her to where the body was recovered and I had a friend riding
00:23:04
shotgun with me and we had two very different opinions on the distance between the two locations I thought that
00:23:13
it was a very quick drive I was like shockingly surprised at how quick it seemed like we went from abduction site
00:23:21
to where the body was later recovered right so so quick in such a short distance that I was really surprised
00:23:30
that somebody that was committing such a horrible crime and that would want to get away with it would would not have
00:23:38
driven further or to a more this is a a secluded location but again because you're essentially on the exact same
00:23:46
road it doesn't feel so secluded the person that was riding shotgun with me thought that it seemed like a very long
00:23:54
drive so two very different perspectives and my friends said that they were just
00:23:59
picturing themselves being in the backseat of this criminal this murderer's car mhm and being scared
00:24:08
being terrified and they felt that the minutes felt like much more well question for you were you talking to
00:24:16
your friend as you did this drive because briefly I was more looking around and trying to make some
00:24:24
observations I was going to say maybe your story was a little long-winded and they're like oh man this is a this is a
00:24:30
long trip but it was as we got close like I was unsure of the exact location of where they recovered the body right
00:24:39
and when I saw the brake lights come on and I saw Cheryl her vehicle stop in front of me and park to the side of the
00:24:46
road that's that's when it occurred to me I was like oh snap we're there already this is that was incredibly fast
00:24:54
and I had seen it and reviewed it prior on a map right so I knew we weren't going a great distance but it just
00:25:00
seemed like a like a two-minute drive and according to Cheryl's statement when the guy took off with Nancy in the back
00:25:08
seat he speeds off so this dude was likely traveling much faster than I was again I was a little shocked that that
00:25:15
the perpetrator didn't go further but again as you pointed out last week Captain there could be another crime
00:25:22
scene that we are unaware of he could have in fact taken her to another location
00:25:28
and then brought her and and disposed of her in the area where she was found looking at the scene and and being
00:25:37
told what I was told from the family as far as what they found back in 1960 it looks to me like my gut feeling says no
00:25:47
that he abducted Nancy rushed off to that spot that spot may have been predetermined may not have been
00:25:53
predetermined by our killer but the way that they described the what would have been probably tire
00:26:01
tracks and they found paint on a tree stump that was located near her body they believed at the time that the paint
00:26:11
may have come from the perpetrator's vehicle that he didn't see the tree stump we're talking there are no lights
00:26:17
out there even today right let alone 1960 and that he likely didn't see the tree stump and either hit it with his
00:26:26
vehicle brushed up against it somehow leaving paint from his vehicle to the tree stump one thing that's a pisser
00:26:35
here though my friend is nobody seems to be able to recall what color paint it was I was told it might be this color it
00:26:44
might be that color I'm choosing to leave out both of those colors because nobody seems to be certain as to what
00:26:51
color it could have been we have our witness Cheryl who said that it she believed it was either a black car or a
00:26:59
dark green car now neither of those colors match up with the color of paint that people thought it could have been
00:27:10
back in 1960 yeah it definitely seems like a possible misstep in this investigation but if it's 7 miles away
00:27:18
and this murderer is driving high speeds it's going to take him less than 7 minutes to get there so I would go with
00:27:26
you on the idea that it's a that's a shorter ride but again we don't know if they went somewhere else let's go back
00:27:33
to we're throwing the victim in the car we don't know if there's anybody in the car to control her is it possible that
00:27:39
she started fighting him off and he had to pull over very likely that he lost control of the victim and he had to pull
00:27:48
over to straighten out the situation and again that would mean that this was a location that he didn't determine in
00:27:55
advance we know that Criminal are typically you know nobody likes when I say this I don't know why but uh I I
00:28:03
find that the majority of criminals typically are rather dumb and who knows this could have been an impulsive act he
00:28:11
sees two girls walking alone he's not really planned anything out grabs one of them drives off with the intention of
00:28:19
going to a specific location but as you said she starts to fight him off he starts to lose control of the situation
00:28:25
and says oh I got to stop the car here th this is one of those crimes where you review it and you can
00:28:33
argue five six seven points of reason that say this was a premeditated well-thought out crime and then on the
00:28:41
very flip of all those items that you just list there you could say well that points to an impulsive crime a crime
00:28:48
that wasn't really planned [Music] out this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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[Music] [Applause] 50% all right we are back mates cheers to the people in the front to the back
00:31:21
side he's back I'm back people are laying on the ground in the air pants on the ground pants on the ground looking
00:31:30
like a fool or looking very cool that's what I thought or maybe you should be arrested
00:31:36
if you're pantser I was looking very cool with my pants on the ground let's continue on this uh timeline and the set
00:31:44
of evidence while we're going through this evidence and this timeline I want to make sure that we take a little bit
00:31:51
of a stop here to kind of hone in on what Cheryl's description was of the the man now one thing that I did not
00:32:00
appreciate in my research of this case the sheriff Keeler he's a weird dude because I've asked a lot of people about
00:32:08
Sheriff Keeler and remember he is the main investigator here he's he's leading the investigation he was out searching
00:32:16
for Nancy that night that she was abducted and it's a mixed bag man half the people you talk to tell you that
00:32:23
sheriff Keeler was the greatest man that ever lived and that the the town of Pauling and the county of Pauling are
00:32:31
better for having a sheriff like him and then there's other people that you talk
00:32:36
to and they say it's a bit of a weasel yeah squeez in the juice bit of a guy that you might not trust so I think it
00:32:43
will be fair even though keeler's not here to present his side of the argument I think it will be fair to examine some
00:32:50
of his actions throughout this investigation because we are sitting here 62 years later with an unsolved
00:32:56
case one thing I did not appreciate that Keeler did was the following he said to
00:33:04
the papers at the time this is just days after the abduction and the murder of Nancy eagleson the newspapers say that
00:33:13
Cheryl's description of the suspect is limited though he may have been wearing glasses in fact a quote attributed to
00:33:21
the sheriff at the time says quote we only know two things for sure it was a man and he drove an automobile I do not
00:33:29
appreciate this because one thing that we do have is Cheryl claiming that the suspect wore glasses and she's not she's
00:33:38
not willy-nilly about this this is something she told the sheriff that night when Nancy was abducted this is
00:33:45
something she told her parents and everyone willing to listen in 62 years later she still says the man was wearing
00:33:53
glasses well not and not to be silly or nitpicky here but this is also at dusk so this kidnapper would not be wearing
00:34:02
sunglasses that she would be mistaken you know she is saying glasses exactly somebody that's driving with
00:34:11
glasses to me means somebody that probably needs glasses 24/7 very likely and so I don't
00:34:19
really appreciate him taking away that one detail I mean that's a that's a pretty vital detail if you ask me when
00:34:26
we say hey we're worried about the description we're getting from our eyewitness we know one thing for sure
00:34:31
Cheryl knows one thing for sure 100% this man that night was wearing glasses now she did tell me she said Nick
00:34:40
there's a chance that he had disguised himself maybe he was wearing them just because he knew he was going out looking
00:34:47
to take somebody and that's a good point but let's not steer away from the fact that
00:34:55
the man was wearing glasses is that night yeah it could be Again part of a disguise we're going to wear glasses
00:35:02
this will throw them off the scent but this sketch we'll post it on Instagram and Facebook and and Twitter this sketch
00:35:11
is to me the eyes hit you right away very dead eyes doesn't put me in the mind frame of a younger perpetrator 17
00:35:23
to 20 this puts me to to me late 20s mid-30s yeah you know we have that old joke that we reference from time to time
00:35:32
here in the garage that back in the 1960s men either looked like two men either they looked like the Zodiac or
00:35:40
they looked like Charles Manson yeah this is this is much more zodiac yep short hair uh shorter hair and the
00:35:49
sketch we're holding in front of us has glasses on one sketch no glasses on the other sketch but this man is wearing a
00:35:57
suit and tie dressed almost in his Sunday's best uh short hair he looks like a like an ugly version of PeeWee
00:36:05
Herman to me kind of an older uglier PeeWee Herman ping Mr Herman and we'll put these suspect composite sketches
00:36:14
that to my knowledge have never been released to the public which again is a bit of a misstep Mak any sense they may
00:36:22
have obviously you know with the case being 62 years old we can only review so much or or can only get our hands on
00:36:29
certain things as some things are just certainly lost to time but everything I've reviewed everything the captain's
00:36:36
reviewed we've not seen these being released to the public anywhere so it's a little if if they have not been
00:36:42
released it's long overdue because you were looking for this guy Cheryl says this is the guy you are looking for now
00:36:49
in the profile picture the man looks a little more distinguished little more proper than
00:36:56
the hair might be a little bit longer than expected when you look at the front view of the suspect but again we will
00:37:04
post these on Instagram and Twitter so that you can put your own eyeballs on them and see
00:37:12
what Sherl says that she saw yeah to me they they look like two different people
00:37:17
I agree I agree like when I see the front view and then I flip to the profile I that's not exactly it's not
00:37:24
completely off but it's not exactly what I was picturing the profile to look like
00:37:29
after seeing the front view there was some evidence and last week we kind of complained about the lack of finding
00:37:36
tire tracks both situations the abduction scene and where nany's body was recovered from one would think that
00:37:43
there would be tire tracks and we know law enforcement are very good at looking for cars they are very good at looking
00:37:51
for cars and very knowledgeable about Vehicles tires uh vehicle lights and things of that nature so I think that
00:37:58
was a misstep if if in fact they failed to collect those nowhere in the file does it say that they had any tire
00:38:06
tracks or collected them again we know that the scene where they found the body there were a lot of people in and out of
00:38:13
that scene they really didn't secure the scene but some things that were collected in this case were two pieces
00:38:21
of a dress and a jacket with blood on them these were Nam FES they found a scarf her purse shoes her bra her
00:38:31
underclothes garter belt a necklace they found some of her hair on a lwh hanging tree
00:38:42
branch and here's the things that are kind of missing though some things that you would expect to find or have as your
00:38:52
evidence we know that a very thorough autopsy was conducted how however nowhere in the list of evidence do they
00:38:59
say anything about fingernail clippings Captain just brought up the fact that our victim was probably fighting this
00:39:05
man in the vehicle probably fighting him at the scene the final scene and fighting him during the course of the
00:39:14
sexual assault we could have very good suspect evidence underneath her fingernails now
00:39:23
just because there's no mention of these on any evidence list doesn't mean that they never existed but from what we can
00:39:30
say and see today it looks like the finger fingernails were never collected yeah
00:39:37
another misstep the other thing too is we are told time and time again that this was a rape and a murder well
00:39:44
there's no mention of Sean samples MH which we know in 2022 would solve this case right away
00:39:53
yeah it'd be uh a very quick got moment one thing that we did have is that they believe that the type of
00:40:01
weapon used to kill Nancy was a 22 caliber gun this based off of some evidence that we find in the autopsy
00:40:10
where it says quote around the base of the brain is found a fragment of a lead jacketed bullet it goes into some
00:40:18
measurements there and it says it is roughly Arrowhead in shape and appears to be about 22 caliber so yeah she is
00:40:27
abducted on the 13th just 3 days later on the 16th law enforcement and saying hey we're at a
00:40:34
standstill which look look there's not a lot of witnesses to this crime but you'd think
00:40:41
in this neighborhood more people would have seen this vehicle and maybe they could have followed more of those leads
00:40:47
but maybe they worked every lead that they had and once they made these announcements to the public maybe they
00:40:53
thought well come 14th and 15th we're going to get a ton of leads and they just didn't I don't like their
00:41:00
statements I don't think I would have put that out to the public but maybe they thought if we put that out to the
00:41:05
public somebody's going to come forward to help us maybe if we show a little desperation right it will light a fire
00:41:12
and people come forward and help us out I agree that it who knows what the strategy was if there was a strategy in
00:41:18
that statement again we don't know what the sheriff told the reporter and what what didn't make it into the newspaper
00:41:25
article one big question of course when we talk about a village this small a county with a very low population is
00:41:36
people wanted to know did Nancy potentially know who her killer was was the murder simply a way to cover up the
00:41:46
abduction and the rape was the killer from outside of paing Ohio outside of the community or was the killer somebody
00:41:54
known to Nancy known to the area was the killer is this the Killer's first or last
00:42:01
murder these things we don't know so when we investigate and we look at these pieces of evidence we have to question
00:42:08
do they suggest that this is a man from outside of the area or a local man now one thing that was told to us from the
00:42:17
family are two things in my opinion that would strongly strongly suggest that this was in fact a local man that
00:42:29
abducted and killed Nancy the family says that on the night of the Abduction the phone lines were cut at the eagleson
00:42:39
home now I've not seen this reported in any newspaper I've not seen it in the police file I've not seen it reported
00:42:46
anywhere else but the family has said to me that on that night the phone lines were cut that would suggest that this
00:42:54
was a premeditated abduction and somebody already had start to set things into motion before Nancy was even
00:43:02
abducted the second and this is one that is you know I want to be clear here I'm not
00:43:10
questioning what the eagleson family is saying and and sitting here going well do do I believe them or do I not believe
00:43:16
them I I have no reason to not believe them but this second portion seems even more credible because this is said by
00:43:28
several different people more than one source says that Cheryl the iwitness who witnessed her sister being abducted was
00:43:37
almost taken in what they believe to be a botched abduction attempt that took place about 3 weeks after nany's
00:43:47
death according to the eagleson family someone tried to come in the back door of their home and grabed the little girl
00:43:58
the lock was jimmied or the door was jammed open with a screwdriver there was visible physical
00:44:08
damage to the door what a scary scene now Cheryl thankfully was not abducted and
00:44:16
not taken right but that would strongly suggests that hey I've got to shut up this person the one person that saw me
00:44:25
do this the one person that knows who did this that could identify me that could pick me out of a lineup is still
00:44:32
alive and oh by the way I'm a local person I know where she lives I'm going to go and shut her up yeah or what if
00:44:39
we're out in public and she sees me can she identify me or is he connected to the family somehow and knows that hey at
00:44:48
a family party she's going to see me or hear me or something might trigger her to scream bloody murder and maybe
00:44:58
Sheriff Keeler was a Sly dog maybe he was a little wiser than we're giving him credit for maybe he was Dirty Dog maybe
00:45:06
he was playing koi right maybe he was just posturing for the papers and as we said maybe he's acting desperate so that
00:45:14
the public will come and help his investigation because you take that statement and then you look behind the
00:45:21
scenes and you see that no this case was far from a stand still and in fact they
00:45:27
wanted to see if they could extract more information from their eyewitness Cheryl
00:45:32
would be the key to finding this killer if she could tell you things like the license plate if she could tell you give
00:45:39
you a a very good description of the vehicle or a better description of the perpetrator now one thing that they did
00:45:47
in an attempt to extract this information and help her to remember better is they subjected Cheryl to
00:45:56
several hypnosis sessions and I've taken some notes from those sessions and these were conducted
00:46:04
within weeks of the murder and from her statements while under hypnosis we learn that this is
00:46:11
what she's remembering that the suspect's vehicle was facing the same way that the girls were
00:46:17
traveling one person was in the vehicle she says the suspect was alone from what
00:46:23
she could see the suspect was wearing a white shirt wearing black clothes and black glasses he was skinny with black
00:46:32
hair and when asked to give an age she doesn't provide an age for the suspect but she does say that he appeared to be
00:46:41
older than my dad older than my father and she also says that the man was not wearing a hat the vehicle was all one
00:46:49
color and she describes it as both black but also said that she thinks that it could be green green a dark green the
00:46:57
lights were off as she remembers and she says that it was a new or newer car it was a
00:47:04
four-door vehicle the black clothing that the suspect was wearing she says is black pants and a short coat black shoes
00:47:15
she says not boots black shoes and that the man had to walk around the car she actually says that he walked around the
00:47:23
front of the car and then after the abduction in the hypnosis sessions she's saying that after the abduction he drove
00:47:31
toward town so there's some conflicting stories just within Cheryl's story itself in some versions of her story she
00:47:40
says that the man pulls up abducts Nancy and then drives off continuing going the
00:47:45
direction that the girls were walking which would be heading out of paing heading away from paing under hypnosis
00:47:52
in one of the sessions she says that the man actually pulled up up said something
00:47:56
to the girls went away drove away from puling then turns around comes back and then that's when he abducts Nancy now
00:48:06
his vehicle's facing the opposite direction and when he speeds off with Nancy he is heading back into town so
00:48:13
that part's a little unclear but again we're getting one statement from her when she is
00:48:19
awake and other statements when she's under hypnosis but this leads to our timeline of law enforcement getting a
00:48:27
new suspect in December this is a weird story this almost sounds like something out of an old movie where we have a man
00:48:37
his name is Virgil Johnson and in fact we kind of know a little bit about Virgil Johnson already remember we said
00:48:44
that Nancy and her little sister stopped off at a restaurant a locally owned restaurant to grab some sodas sitting
00:48:52
there in the restaurant chatting with people sipping sodas before they walk off to the bowling alley well the owner
00:48:59
of that restaurant that they stopped off to have these sodas is Virgil Johnson so
00:49:04
Virgil Johnson becomes a suspect if you will in the minds of the public right maybe not so much in the minds of the
00:49:12
sheriff or law enforcement but the way that this story goes is that he Virgil Johnson is hearing
00:49:21
rumors that they have a suspect and the suspect is a local businessman well what he does not
00:49:29
realize for a couple of days anyway is that that suspect is him he is the local businessman that the public are talking
00:49:37
about as being the killer of Nancy eagleson right but any of the places that they stopped on their walk home
00:49:44
people are going to say we should look into those those individuals of course but again we have people in town openly
00:49:52
discussing Virgil Johnson as the man who killed Nancy eagleson maybe he was a little bit of odd
00:50:00
duck well part of this may have come from a statement that says that Virgil's wife said that she found blood on his
00:50:09
clothing and that he explained that so there was blood found in the back of his vehicle and there was blood found on his
00:50:19
clothing according to this statement now the blood in the back of his car is very questionable right because we
00:50:29
talked about this last week where some people have suggested that Nancy was not killed where she was found some people
00:50:37
suggest and believe that there is evidence that may point to her actually being killed in the vehicle that
00:50:45
abducted her right and then the body transported 100 ft off of the road and laid in the woods if that's true that we
00:50:53
would see a lot of blood in that vehicle from my understanding Virgil Johnson says well of course there's blood in my
00:51:00
vehicle I own a restaurant and I'm regularly picking up beef you know a big side of beef you know items from the
00:51:09
butcher shop that is miles away and driving them to my restaurant and the blood found on
00:51:16
my clothing is from unloading these items from the car now that seems somewhat reasonable given that it's 1960
00:51:26
and that he is in fact the restaurant owner we don't know if this Blood was ever tested or even collected to be
00:51:33
tested it sounds to me or at least the way that the story goes is that the vehicle was cleaned up by the time he
00:51:40
becomes a suspect right the other interesting thing though is remember he's hearing these rumors cuz people are
00:51:47
openly talking about him being the person that killed Nancy eagleson for several days and then he realizes oh
00:51:53
they're talking about me right I better do something about this but if they're not looking into him until a week later
00:52:00
you can't say it's suspicious that his car is clean because some people that's their weekly routine especially back
00:52:07
then well this is early December so we've we have a minimum of two weeks that have passed by this time and we
00:52:14
don't have an exact day I did have I did I do know what the day is uh I failed to
00:52:21
put it in my notes but I put it down as early December because what's weird here
00:52:25
Captain is well stepping into my office cuz you're fired again he does not appear to be a suspect per law
00:52:32
enforcement this is a local suspect this is the public thinking this dude did it
00:52:37
he goes to the sheriff and says everybody in town saying that I killed Nancy eagleson and so the sheriff
00:52:43
decides he starts hearing rumors that the towns people have decided that Virgil Johnson did it and they're going
00:52:50
to go get Justice them damn selves they're going to go find Virgil Johnson and they're going to Lynch him up in the
00:52:56
center of town so Sheriff Keeler decides you know what I'm going to have to put your butt in jail not because I think
00:53:03
you did anything just so that these people don't come in here and kill you so he throws Virgil Johnson in jail and
00:53:11
then he comes out and tells the village of paing and all of paing County I Sheriff Keeler I've checked into Virgil
00:53:19
Johnson he's not the guy we we subjected him to a lie to detector test he passed
00:53:26
the poly and therefore he is not a suspect do not harm this man and they publicly
00:53:34
announced that Virgil Johnson is cleared as being the killer of Nancy eagleson that he's innocent yeah and if he's
00:53:42
hearing these rumors then you know law enforcement is and then once you start hearing these other rumors of let's take
00:53:48
him to the middle of the town and and and hang him well you better start doing your due diligence very quickly
00:53:56
and and so yeah I I wish they' do that more in cases I mean look at the deli case I think there's a lot of suspects
00:54:04
that have been identified publicly that they could have came out and and ruled out or in you know by late December of
00:54:13
1960 the reward fund for information about ny's murder was increased to $6,595 that would be the equivalent of
00:54:22
approximately $65,000 to day that's a lot of money for a small town this reward money was
00:54:29
raised by businesses businessmen and other community leaders and in hopes of solving the Nancy eagleson murder in
00:54:38
January of 1961 this is where we start to see the case kind of drag on you know we talk so much about how the first 48
00:54:48
are so important to any murder investigation well also the first two weeks the first two months now we're
00:54:54
getting outside of that world and we're getting beyond that because in January of
00:55:00
1961 Sheriff Keeler is trading and swapping information with a town up in Michigan that experienced a similar
00:55:09
murder right so this is where we need to make sure that we give Sheriff Keeler some well-deserved Kudos give him an old
00:55:18
attaboy right because this is one thing that most law enforcement agencies did not do in 19 even in 1980 or 1970 let
00:55:28
alone 1960 this guy's reaching out to other agencies other law enforcement agencies
00:55:35
and comparing notes and saying hey what happened there we had something that happened here that's similar let's
00:55:42
discuss let's see if we're talking about the same perpetrator or is there things
00:55:47
in your case in your investigation that you got right or got wrong and we can learn from that here and apply that to
00:55:53
what we are doing and ping Ohio so we got to give him some credit for reaching out and discussing this with other
00:55:59
agencies and other jurisdictions because again that is stuff that just did not happen back in that day well reaching
00:56:06
out to other jurisdictions other departments locking this guy up clearing people all this Hoopa that's going to
00:56:13
bring us to another suspect yes this is a grown man his name is Thomas ball and the reason that he becomes on the police
00:56:22
radar and this is to be clear a law enforcement suspect not a public suspect he gets on to sheriff keeler's radar
00:56:31
because in 1961 in February Thomas ball is charged with the rape of Janet Bergstrom in Defiance County
00:56:42
Ohio now they're looking at him he's charged with this rape with this assault he's about 30 31 years of age at this
00:56:53
time and so they start looking at him at in the Nancy case because they see some
00:57:00
similarities in their cases now where I will say that I don't think Keeler did a
00:57:07
great job on this case is that we will see again here he questions Thomas Paul about the Nancy eagleson case he
00:57:18
subjects Thomas ball to a lie detector test and ball according to Keeler passes the ply
00:57:25
and he is publicly cleared the sheriff comes forward and tells everybody this man was not involved in Nancy eagleson's
00:57:34
case the problem with this is this really seems to be their only one of their few options back then in 1960
00:57:44
especially when they didn't feel like they had great evidence in nany's case so they're using polygraph examinations
00:57:52
to determine whether they should continue to to investigate an individual for her murder or if they should move
00:58:00
on from the individual in nany's case and so they are publicly clearing People based off of the results of these
00:58:09
polygraph tests which we still do in some jurisdictions they still do to this day and the captain and I don't like it
00:58:17
now and we don't like it back in 1960 either because experts would tell you that the
00:58:25
individual that was capable the type of individual capable of abducting raping and executing a child very likely could
00:58:34
feel no remorse very likely would not be nervous at all about your questions and
00:58:39
very likely could look you in the eyes and tell you whatever it is that you want to hear tell you whatever story
00:58:47
will get them out of the room from you and their heartbeat their heart rate won't
00:58:55
budge at all well I like giving somebody a polygraph test to see like it's a barometer really are they telling us the
00:59:04
truth on anything are they being are they telling tall tales about everything or just a few things just to give a
00:59:11
barometer of where this person is but in no way shape or form should you be clearing anybody of the murders because
00:59:18
of these tests especially somebody like Thomas ball so the the charges for the rape and the assault that took place in
00:59:26
Defiance County Ohio were eventually dismissed right and that is what gets him onto the police radar in paon County
00:59:35
right they look at him for Nancy eagleson's murder they give him the polygraph test he passes it and Sheriff
00:59:41
Keeler says cleared and we move on but here's why you don't move on from somebody like Thomas ball because in
00:59:49
1963 in September he lured a 19-year-old girl into his hotel room in Detroit Michigan and then stabbed and killed
00:59:58
that 19-year-old and so in 1964 he's convicted of that murder yeah this guy's a psychopath he's capable of anything
01:00:07
really he gets sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison and then in 1976 after serving 12
01:00:15
years he's moved to a psych facility in Detroit which he escapes from and then he mov moves down to
01:00:26
Tennessee where he remains there undercover undetected until 2006 he's living under the name of
01:00:35
Thomas fry down in Tennessee and one day police hello show up knocking on his door down in
01:00:45
Tennessee and arrest him and say this is Thomas ball who escaped from Michigan back in 1976 so they find him 30 years
01:00:53
later right he's he eventually paroled in 2007 in Michigan but for me Captain he remains and should remain a suspect
01:01:01
to Nancy eagleson's [Music] [Applause] murder so much more to get to in part four join us back here in the garage
01:01:18
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