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[Music] [Applause] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that unlike Drew Brees and Zeke Elliot he actually
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crushed John Manzel but thanks for watching it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening
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gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] [Music] crime
00:03:39
[Music] with the approaching holiday comes gifts gifts handed out at work or pass from
00:03:50
hand to hand sitting around a Christmas tree gifts wrapped with love and sent off mailed to an old friend or distant
00:03:58
family member and who Among Us does not love a neatly wrapped package complete with decoration
00:04:06
arriving at our homes and address to our name in December of 1996 in Ontario Canada Wayne grette
00:04:16
received a gift unexpectedly the package was neatly prepared delivered to his mailbox and
00:04:25
brought into his home a letter accompanied the package Wayne opened the box with his family
00:04:32
surrounding him and he discovered a large Duracell flashlight Inside the Box Wayne took a look at it and tried
00:04:41
the on switch but nothing happened Wayne's son Justin then tried turning the flashlight on but again
00:04:50
nothing happened Wayne grabbed the flashlight from his son and walked over to the sofa
00:04:55
in the family room and sat down he tried the OD switch one more time and boom the
00:05:02
flashlight exploded spraying the room with roofing nails shattering the window and knocking Justin and his mother to
00:05:10
the floor Justin got up and ran to the phone and he called 911 police fire ambulance my dad was a bomb and my dad
00:05:22
blew up me there was a bomb and my dad just blew up where I me all one Mor R1 M okay stay on the line stay on the line
00:05:34
oh my God he's blowing up the flashlight bomb killed Wayne Gravette right there in front of his
00:05:42
family who would do something so cowardice to this man in his family was this the work of some type of assassin a
00:05:50
contract killer or simply someone that hated this man so much so that they sent an improvised exploding device through
00:05:58
the Canadian Postal Service to Wayne's home with the intent to kill this is the tragic story of Wayne
00:06:08
grette and the bomb that took his [Music] life Wayne was born on January 4th 1954
00:06:31
in Ontario Canada now there's not a great amount of detail that is known about his early life but we do know
00:06:39
Wayne started working for the 7Up Bottling Company when he was just 18 he became an expert in the mechanical side
00:06:46
of the bottling industry fixing and installing Machinery conveyor belts and assembly line equipment from there Wayne
00:06:55
moved on to Surge packaging and Machinery a company Loc located in Acton Ontario the company sold installed and
00:07:03
repaired equipment for bottling businesses in both Canada and the US so this is a very large company Wayne
00:07:12
worked there for many years but was no longer with surge when he was murdered now regarding his personal life Wayne
00:07:20
met Diane when they were young she was just 15 and he was 19 Diane's home life wasn't great and as Diane puts it Wayne
00:07:29
got her out of a bad situation so the two moved in together when Diane was just 16 and they got married the
00:07:36
following year they ended up having two kids Danielle and Justin Wayne's wife and kids tell the story of a man who was
00:07:45
a great father he loved his kids and Diane and Wayne seemed to embrace a secluded lifestyle Diane says they had a
00:07:53
few friends and the rest of the people in their lives were business acquaintances Diane says Wayne was
00:07:59
controlling and domineering but she loved him very much the two were a team but Wayne while an adoring father on the
00:08:07
home front he was abrasive and confrontational at times when it came to business Diane said quote Wayne was
00:08:14
mouthy and cocky end quote detective Paul Johnson says Wayne was the kind of person who told people what he thought
00:08:21
and he had altercations with several people Wayne was also a man's man he wrote a Harley and played poker the few
00:08:29
friends he did have were mostly hard drinking Blue Collar buddies that he met in the bottling industry Diane says
00:08:36
Wayne was away a lot for work and sometimes did not come home at night after drinking with the guys and he was
00:08:43
not the best husband he had affairs and Diane says they had fights sometimes bad
00:08:50
ones he hadn't a he had a temper but she loved him he loved her and they were a family both Wayne and Diane were
00:08:59
employees of surge for quite a while but in 1993 Wayne had a falling out with and
00:09:04
left the company so Wayne and Diane started up his own bottling equipment company a secretary Lisa from Serge came
00:09:12
to work with them they named the company DNL after Diane and Lisa this was depending on who you talk to Captain
00:09:21
there's mixed reviews on this company so most of the reviews on this seem like it
00:09:26
was a fairly successful company I have found others that state that the company had problems that they were never really
00:09:33
making a whole bunch of money and were having trouble staying afloat well there's also a lot of rumors that he was
00:09:39
taking jobs and taking payments for jobs and never completing them that he might
00:09:44
have been conducting bad business right let's say in 1996 the gravettes bought a
00:09:50
104 Acre Farm in mafit Ontario at this time DNL wasn't doing very well this property has a natural spring large
00:10:01
enough that they could use the spring as a source for a bottled water business with Wayne's expertise and access to
00:10:08
bottling equipment and supplies they decided to make a go for it they moved to the farm sometime around June of 96
00:10:16
and apparently they loved it there Wayne set up a shop in the barn and started bottling and selling water now let's
00:10:24
talk about the events of December 12th 1996 the farm is in Moffet this area is about 35 miles from Toronto but while
00:10:35
Toronto is a huge city mafa is quite rural the farm had a long dirt driveway and a mailbox at the end of this
00:10:44
driveway for the family's mail Diane and Wayne's 21-year-old son Justin was home
00:10:50
on the farm that day his sister Danielle was not she was out with a boyfriend Justin went out around midday to get
00:10:58
diesel fuel for for one of the vehicles and on his way out he stopped at the mailbox there he found a package wrapped
00:11:05
in white paper decorated with ribbon and addressed to Mr Wayne Gravette RR number
00:11:11
one Moffet Ontario Lop 1j0 Justin put the package in his vehicle drove to town got gas and
00:11:22
returned home when he returned his dad was in the barn eventually Wayne joined the rest of the family in the house
00:11:28
around 1 p.m. along with Justin and Diane there was also Wayne's brother I couldn't find the name of Wayne's
00:11:36
brother standing in the kitchen Wayne opened the package the first thing he saw was an envelope that said Merry
00:11:43
Christmas Wayne perused the letter it was a business proposal Inside the Box were crumpled up
00:11:51
flyers from various advertisers placed Inside the Box this was used as likely padding right after removing the papers
00:12:00
Wayne pulled out a large Duracell flashlight so this is a bulky flashlight with a handle on it yeah and we'll post
00:12:06
all these pictures on our Instagram at True Crime garage Dwayne flicked on the power switch but nothing happened so
00:12:13
Justin took the flashlight and tried the button as well but the light did not come on he tried to open up the battery
00:12:20
compartment but couldn't it seemed like it was glued or fastened shut Wayne took
00:12:25
the flashlight back moving into the family room and sitting down on the sofa he then tried the switch again and the
00:12:32
room exploded they called 911 immediately after the explosion you heard a portion of that call during our
00:12:39
trailer the trauma and fear in Diane's voice is palpable she's she's screaming the flashlight was a cleverly disguised
00:12:48
bomb the interior of the flashlight was filled with explosives that were sparked
00:12:53
by the activation of the on switch packed around the explosives were a large number of roofing nails the nails
00:13:00
did exactly what they were intended to do they sprayed Wayne in the area around him the front of Wayne's body including
00:13:08
his face basically blew up blood sprayed all over the walls Windows shattered Nails flew through the drywall and into
00:13:16
other rooms even embedding in the ceiling yeah he basically lost everything from his face down to his
00:13:23
thighs I hate to paint this unfortunate picture but you have to pick picture for
00:13:29
a second the man sitting there on the sofa the flashlight basically in his lap and he's looking down at the flashlight
00:13:38
when this bomb goes off so he absorbed almost all of the blast according to investigators he died instantly let's
00:13:48
talk about the investigation Captain so when the police arrived they found the family room covered in debris broken
00:13:55
furniture and glass were everywhere Wayne's body was still lying on the couch now covered with a blanket and his
00:14:02
family was in hysterics the Ontario Police they closed off the scene and sent the family Elsewhere for
00:14:10
questioning detective Paul Johnson of the homicide unit was put in charge of the
00:14:16
investigation processing the scene took several days police gathered the names of business associates and colleagues of
00:14:24
Wayne's and started looking through his business banking travel and phone records and the package that was holding
00:14:31
the bomb it was confirmed that was delivered through the mail but also the box was a wine box as well right mhm
00:14:37
yeah the mail carrier her name is Joyce said that her and her daughter and small
00:14:42
grandson were in her mail truck that day helping with packages and deliveries on
00:14:48
her route she remembered the package to Wayne because of a pretty ribbon that was on this package she also noted that
00:14:55
the package fitted it fit exactly into the mailbox Joyce was still out on her route when she heard the sirens but she
00:15:04
didn't discover what had actually happened until the following day when she arrived at the post office which was
00:15:10
now crawling with cops okay so Captain what kind of evidence can we collect from the packaging first it had a large
00:15:18
number of stamps on it amounting to extra postage so it would appear that someone wanted to make sure that this
00:15:25
wouldn't get returned that they put more than enough enough to guarantee that it
00:15:29
would be delivered of course you're not going to want a package that's a bomb to
00:15:33
be returned to you well and unfortunately no DNA was found on the stamps or the packaging well also
00:15:40
something with the packaging the box that it held in like I said was wine so you wonder he's in the Distributing
00:15:48
business is there somebody that distributes wine that would have access to this box to put the bomb in well this
00:15:55
is a red and cream colored cardboard box from a cheap brand of red wine a a Cabernet uh the box is sort of Flowery
00:16:05
with a vase and red blooms on it yeah but I believe there's some numbers that are scratched off the box to kind of
00:16:12
hide the identity of where the box came from or where this wine would come from well I don't know about scratched off
00:16:18
but the the UPC number or the barcode that would be on the box uh which could have likely told us where the wine was
00:16:27
purchased or maybe even to whom it was sold this was cut off okay uh it had been removed from the box so this
00:16:34
perpetrator was was smart enough to take the effort to do this uh police would ultimately comb through the purchase
00:16:42
history records of all of the liquor stores in the area close to the gretes farm to try to determine who bought this
00:16:49
wine but they came up with nothing so well this well this also makes it a lot more difficult too because since it's
00:16:57
mailed you got to figure out how far away was this mailed from right and you know here's another thought here though
00:17:05
too Captain this box simply could have been from a recycling bin or trash bin rather than a purchase right uh making
00:17:12
it even less traceable if not traceable you know not traceable at all well and I
00:17:17
wonder if there's some thing where if you cut off uh the UPC or whatever if there was some like collect your upcs
00:17:25
and you get free wine or whatever so like you said could have been found in the trash or found in a recycling bin
00:17:32
and it was the actual owner of the box that cut off the UPC and not some clever way to disguise where it came from
00:17:39
possible possible I think it I think it shows the um thoroughness of the person that mailed the bomb they did find two
00:17:48
hairs under the packaging tape but no root on them and even after mitochondrial DNA testing was conducted
00:17:55
by the FBI no DNA profile was able to to be put together investigators theorized
00:18:02
that the per deliberately avoided licking the stamps uh and used excess number of stamps to ensure delivery and
00:18:08
stamped it themselves to avoid taking the package to the post office so putting this into a mailbox and then
00:18:17
having it delivered by the postal service so they could remain anonymous and the package was wrapped in inside
00:18:25
out Christmas paper meaning that the decoration part was facing the box and not to the people opening the box yeah
00:18:33
so it's it's hunter green in color but the white part of the paper is on the outside of the package is what's visible
00:18:40
and the address was typed so now on the inside of that box we talked about the flyers that were crumpled up and used
00:18:49
likely for padding yeah these advertisements yeah so these are crumpled up and they're packed around
00:18:55
the flashlight these came from a wide distribution area in Southern Ontario but one one of these advertisements came
00:19:04
from Copeland lumber at 700 Main Street in nearby Milton and it was only distributed locally yeah but let's
00:19:12
Ponder this for a minute is this a mistake is this a mistake by the person sending the bomb or we're dealing with
00:19:21
uh people that do packaging right and and they do a lot of traveling was this deliberate like I could grab the ads
00:19:30
from here I'll package the bomb I'll mail it from somewhere else and that will throw them off could be so the
00:19:38
situation here though is if somebody's just grabbing them you know if they're grabbing a
00:19:44
bunch of them a big stack of these this is this is the thought that the majority
00:19:51
of that stack would be advertisements from all over the place and then we have this one in the batch that was only
00:19:57
distributed in a very small location so it would mean that this person had some kind of could have had
00:20:05
some kind of connection to this nearby town of Milton right but what I'm saying is this is a business where people
00:20:13
travel often so all I'm saying is if you don't live in Milton but you travel there let's say every two weeks pick up
00:20:20
some ads while you're there what do you mean this is a business where we travel often Wayne is in the business where
00:20:27
they right our our victim is in the business of traveling often we don't know who sent this bomb or or what
00:20:33
business the Killer is in right but I right but my point is is that that if you look at the suspects as far as
00:20:41
business-wise goes He they're in the same business as Wayne one thing I've wondered about and I would wager or at
00:20:48
least hope that they did look at this Captain is that you know checking Cumberland Lumber checking that business
00:20:55
to try to determine if the nails or even the flashlight were purchased there right and we should note that Wayne did
00:21:03
work in the town of Milton for many years at uh several companies but I believe that is exactly where that large
00:21:11
company surge is located as well right to me like I said to me it's it's deliberate or it's a mistake and my gut
00:21:19
filling thinks this is a mistake me too because we have one out of many uh that were placed in that and only one
00:21:28
the other thing I wonder too well then we'll Agree to Agree well but the other the other part of that though too is I
00:21:35
would think that the individual using this as padding likely might not know about the distribution or circulation of
00:21:42
these flyers yeah that's a very good point um the flashlight of course was obliterated in the blast but it was
00:21:49
determined to be a gray plastic Duracell floating Lantern about 23 cm long and 15
00:21:56
C cm tall they call a lantern cuz it doesn't look like a lantern to me it just looks like a big flashlight it was
00:22:04
packed with plastic explosives uh a blasting cap and the nails uh that we talked about so turning it into a
00:22:12
powerful concentrated bomb containing super Frack this is an explosive used in the mining industry for breaking apart
00:22:21
rocks or or large rock this is not a bomb that would go off if you hit it with a hammer or dropped it it requires
00:22:30
a trigger which is why it was wired to the on switch police determined the super Frack was readily available within
00:22:39
the mining industry it could have been purchased through a manufacturer or stolen from a gravel pit or any
00:22:46
distributor so I don't think they were able to track down the source of this explosive now there is debate about the
00:22:54
experience level needed to construct the bomb most investigators uh think that someone
00:23:01
could have learned how to put this together from the Internet or a magazine or a book right so let's talk about the
00:23:10
letter because inside uh along with the flashlight bomb was this envelope and inside was a letter on the envelope was
00:23:20
handwritten label of Mary Christmas um it's a typed letter inside on simple 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of white paper yeah how
00:23:29
about you start by just reading it straight through okay it says Mr Wayne Gravette Dear Sir my partners and I are
00:23:38
opening a new business sometime early in the new year called acting Home Products
00:23:43
and would be very interested in having you give us a price on rebuilding some equipment you did some work for a
00:23:51
company I was with a few years ago and although you won't remember me Lisa and your delivery man Joe most likely will
00:24:00
we don't plan on doing anything until after the New Year but would be most anxious to proceed at that time we have
00:24:07
no staff or office in place just yet but you can reach us by mail at our new address below thanks for your time and
00:24:16
I'll look forward to hearing from you sometime early in the New Year sincerely William J French acting Home Products RR
00:24:26
number one un number six Acton Ontario l7g 2n1 PS didn't realize you had moved had
00:24:38
some trouble finding you have a very Merry Christmas and may you never have to buy another
00:24:51
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00:27:04
all right we're back cheers mates cheers now the letter that we just discussed it
00:27:10
was left intact after the blast that's why we know what it said right and there were no fingerprints found on it it was
00:27:18
typed on a Smith Corona electric typewriter which from what I've read is a fairly common typewriter it would not
00:27:26
be easy to identify this as it's too common right well this is also for home use and
00:27:34
office use but the font in the letters was significant yeah the the letter was typed in all caps and experts identified
00:27:44
it as script 1012 font this is not an all business font like you know like Times New Roman or something like this
00:27:55
this is more like a a yeah it's almost like a handwritten font yes the font was created by inserting a daisy wheel
00:28:05
essentially a round disc with letters numbers and symbols on spokes into the typewriter experts were able to tell
00:28:12
police that this Daisy wheel was sold under the model number 59543 police were optimistic about this
00:28:20
Daisy wheel for two reasons one according to statistics at the time only 2% of people who had this kind of
00:28:28
typewriter owned that particular type of Daisy wheel right two police saw that it
00:28:35
contains what appears to be an imperfection in the periods in the letter so each period is followed by a
00:28:43
small slash so it kind of like resembles a comma this flaw is likely specific to
00:28:50
this single one Daisy wheel right so if the writer of the letter used this Daisy
00:28:57
wheel in any other correspondence it it should be able to be identified because it would have the same imperfection now
00:29:05
here here's some some tricky things okay so when you buy like this model of the Smith and Corona right that you can buy
00:29:14
extra Daisy wheels so where it gets a little more complicated is this could have been I mean they would had to have
00:29:23
some knowledge of their electric typewriter but let's say their original font was you know Times New Roman right
00:29:32
mhm and they Ed that for everything but for this one they used just that Daisy wheel just for this letter that's where
00:29:41
it could be a little more complex as far as if they never typed anybody else a letter using this Daisy wheel then yeah
00:29:48
yeah yeah if they were smart enough to just use it this one time and then toss it yeah cuz when you go to buy these
00:29:54
back in the day you you wouldd have the option like it'd be like okay I'll take this you know electric typewriter and
00:30:02
then the person would go but you can have all these different fonts and so people would buy extra Daisy Wheels I
00:30:09
wonder if you could buy them at anytime like if you don't have to buy it when you're making the purchase of the
00:30:15
typewriter I would think you could buy it at any time I'm I'm assuming you can and then they're just looking at the
00:30:20
straight up statistics of sales and going okay well x x number of people own this typewriter or X number of these
00:30:28
typewriters have been sold and then X number of these Daisy Wheels have been sold throughout the year so somebody
00:30:34
essentially could have went somewhere and purchased it with cash right um and not with the actual typewriter and like
00:30:42
you said using it once if you were smart enough or sneaky enough to use it only that one time and then toss it um see I
00:30:52
this to me is is the essence of a lot of these cases that we discuss you have something here that you're like holy
00:31:01
crap that's it that's to be everything that's the thing we've been looking for this is what we can tie our rope to and
00:31:07
where we can find our perpetrator and then at some point you go it just didn't get us there it just didn't get us there
00:31:15
could be everything or it could be nothing yeah I mean for example it's typed in all caps right M so law
00:31:25
enforcement said hey well do we know anybody that you know worked with Wayne or or knew Wayne that just typed this
00:31:34
way that threw on all caps and that's how they sent letters mhm again was this something they did on purpose or was
00:31:44
this machine for whatever reason was the Cap's lock broke and they had to type this way right was was this something
00:31:51
that was deliberate or just a happen stance yes so police did they parsed through all of Wayne's correspondence
00:32:00
and they did ask everyone in the area who conducted business with Wayne or within the bottling industry to examine
00:32:06
their correspondents to look for this abnor abnormality uh but nothing came of this
00:32:14
could the killer have been you know smart enough to just use it once that's the thing that we we'll
00:32:20
never be able to wrap our heads around until this case is solved now the letter was signed using the name William J
00:32:27
French of course there was no such person and acting Home Products the company name also did not exist the
00:32:36
address RR number one unit number six in Acton also was not a business address it
00:32:43
actually was a postal code for a residence now I don't know who lived there um who lived at this address but
00:32:52
it's very safe to say I'm assuming that the OPP yeah you know me me the police checked out the resident thoroughly mhm
00:33:02
we just don't know whether the killer selected this address at random or if it holds again if it means anything does it
00:33:11
hold any significance yeah and see I wonder if the act and Home Products was okay like the first part of
00:33:21
the letter right was that set up to let Wayne know who this is coming from you see what I mean oh yeah like what
00:33:35
were the clues because at one point he they also said uh something about uh Lisa and Joe Lisa Lisa being uh Wayne's
00:33:45
basically secretary and business lady and then Joe was a delivery guy they would know us but you probably don't
00:33:53
remember us yeah they the Joe and Lisa might remember remember me or remember us yeah and I wonder if that was like a
00:34:01
hint at uh you might be having a hard time placing who's sending you this letter but that's because we gave you
00:34:11
money so Lisa knows us and Joe Knows us but you never came to do the job MH I wonder if that's some some kind of clue
00:34:20
there yeah or is it a taunt right and what I mean by that is is a couple things and it and here it's such a petty
00:34:29
thing to do because if your intent is to instantaneously blow this guy up then then it's what is the taunt I don't
00:34:40
understand because you're you're cluing him in that so and so might know me or know us right but then you're signing
00:34:46
this with a fictitious name so immediately Wayne if he made it to the end of the letter is going to go I don't
00:34:53
know William J French and we know he wouldn't know that because it's not a real person well he was a real person we
00:34:59
have just no clue if if Wayne knew of this guy if you look up William J French all it comes to or all I could find is a
00:35:08
grave site that was buried he was buried in Toronto right and someone that passed
00:35:15
away well before this incident right so we we could assume I mean way way before
00:35:21
the bombing we could assume that he doesn't know him but is it like some kind of clue because if you're sending
00:35:27
this bomb it's almost like you sent this letter to get this message across to Wayne so what in this letter would be a
00:35:35
clue for Wayne to go oh [ __ ] I know who sent this and that's what I mean if it's
00:35:41
a taunt it's like a super it's super Petty is what I mean by this because of a couple of reasons if Wayne reads this
00:35:49
letter you know first of all the the killer the person sending it he's sending it with the intention that Wayne
00:35:55
will read it if he if he wants to taunt him before killing him but then the thought then too is well what kind of
00:36:02
taunt is this if if your thought your plan your hopes are that he reads it and then he flips on the switch and boom the
00:36:10
flashlight explodes then the taunt is is kind of lost you know what I mean it's almost like if you set out to taunt
00:36:19
Wayne before you kill him I guess are you hoping to that you put just enough in this letter that somebody's name or
00:36:30
face is going to pop into his mind before he turns on the flashlight right you know and because the old [ __ ] I know
00:36:38
this who this letter is from is not necessarily an old [ __ ] moment because you don't know that the flashlights a
00:36:45
bomb yet you know what I mean like um unless you have some severely bad blood with this individual now of course we
00:36:54
know that it's a bomb so you would think there was some bad blood there there but
00:36:57
sometimes bad blood is one-sided yeah where it's like uh I hate you you don't even know I hate you yet there are some
00:37:04
interesting things in the letter though because we have we have a couple of things right so it is addressed
00:37:11
specifically to Wayne so this is not uh we know he is the intended target of the
00:37:17
bomb it's not just some random act you know we also know that the the killer knew enough about Wayne to know what
00:37:25
kind of business he was in and that he had recently moved you know and that he knew employees of Wayne's right and the
00:37:33
police beli that that it's likely that the killer was not someone who was close to Wayne at the time of his death
00:37:42
because whoever sent the bomb didn't seem to know Wayne's new address now the thought here is that this seems likely
00:37:50
because one thing that was uncovered was that two men were seen at the Acton Ontario branch of the post office about
00:37:58
a month earlier one man went inside the post office and inquired about where Wayne lived and oddly the other man
00:38:06
asked people outside of the post office this is a a small town so it's not I guess that strange to ask strangers
00:38:15
where someone lives but in order to send something through the mail in Canada you
00:38:20
need the exact postal code for the address and there are over 855 thousand different postal codes in
00:38:30
Canada yeah well that's compared to the US uh where we have like 42,000 is zip codes yeah well again it's like there's
00:38:39
these like little things that make you think that this is like a clue to him for example um had a hard time finding
00:38:48
you right because of the new address and there was these reports that he was getting phone calls and and Wayne was
00:38:54
telling people hey uh just tell him I'm not here so again was this a situation where he promised to do a job took
00:39:02
payment for a job and he took off and went missing and and then that that person had to track him down to even
00:39:10
figure out where he was at yeah so the the gettes moved from Acton away to the farm in mafa in June of 1996 this is 19
00:39:19
kilm away so you have to wonder there they the gravettes once lived in Acton and these two men were seen at the Acton
00:39:29
Ontario Branch so did these two men assume that Wayne still lived in acting or never knew his address and only knew
00:39:38
that he lived in that town right so sketches were made of the two men but they have not been able to identify them
00:39:44
so the sketches have led to really nothing I'm sure like we know with most cases a lot of times when you have a
00:39:51
sketch thrown out there that the police end up getting receive and receiving a lot of lookalike calls right hey I know
00:39:58
so and so and you should talk to him well how's he connected to the case well he looks like the guy yeah and then they
00:40:04
look at the guy they talk to him and find out he has absolutely no connection to anything who knows how reliable these
00:40:11
sketches are in the first place you have to wonder because these are composite sketches made using eyewitnesses who had
00:40:18
an unremarkable conversation or conversations with two people inquiring about an address a month before this
00:40:25
happened right all right back to the letter the writer actually knew Wayne's business fairly well and I say this
00:40:33
because in the letter naming Lisa and Joe So Lisa Irvin was the secretary from from surge you had already mentioned her
00:40:43
but she was from The Surge company and she ultimately left the company and started DNL with him and his wife yeah
00:40:51
like I said even though I think the title was more secretary I think she knew the books and knew the business
00:40:57
very well oh yeah the interesting thing here though too Captain is Lisa's name is actually spelled
00:41:04
Lea yeah so we don't know if the letter writer actually didn't know this and what I mean by that because in the
00:41:11
letter it's spelled l IA you know the more common way I actually never had seen the name Lisa
00:41:18
spelled l EA is it l l EA or is it l e e z a or something weird I thought well I
00:41:28
I have her name as as technically being spelled LSA and in the letter it's spelled the
00:41:34
more common spelling of L IA so that makes you wonder a couple of things yeah yeah sa you have that right
00:41:43
sorry what it doesn't make you wonder it doesn't there's no way that somebody just has just connects that unless they
00:41:51
know that specifically about Wayne or his company you don't just r randomly picked two names and they actually had
00:41:58
something to do with one of his companies and the crazy thing though is if I had only heard that name out loud
00:42:07
you know only heard that name spoken never seen it written never seen it yeah yeah then that's how I'm going to spell
00:42:14
it in my taunting letter that I'm sending along with my bomb right and then the thing with Joe there he was
00:42:21
actually uh joseppi ZK zachik I yeah I think he's technically the delivery driver it sounds like he held several
00:42:31
different roles with this company but but mostly was a delivery man and he did go by Joe so again you have to wonder
00:42:40
like is this just a red herring designed to throw investigators onto the scent of
00:42:45
a a business associate you know someone that would have heard these names aloud Joe Lisa or is this somebody that was
00:42:53
even tighter with Wayne and actually knew these people a little bit you okay this let's just Ponder this for a minute
00:43:01
and try to help me you help me right why send a letter at all it's it's almost like the only point of sending
00:43:11
the letter is to get it into Wayne's head you know who sent this or you send a letter because this has nothing to do
00:43:23
with business but you know waying enough where you can make it seem like oh well
00:43:30
Wayne would take money for jobs and not do them and we we have a history of that
00:43:36
so if I make this seem like it's connected to Wayne's business then they're not going to look at me because
00:43:42
this is a personal matter so I I went through some old uh bombing cases that were later solved and trying to add some
00:43:51
psychology to even the packaging and you know this letter of of course you know a
00:43:58
lot of times when when people will attach a note to a bomb there have most of the time it's almost an assumption by
00:44:06
the creator of the bomb that the the letter or the note will be destroyed in the blast and that no one will ever have
00:44:14
read that letter other than the Target right but see here I kind of I'm kind of more with you I think I think with what
00:44:23
you're saying here is is it just to throw them off the scent I don't know I don't know either but I think that that
00:44:31
might be the case and what I mean by that is that I see actions being taken with the
00:44:38
the packaging of this bomb that indicate to me that they didn't whoever packaged
00:44:44
this up you know like the removal of the barcode the zip of the uh UPC symbol that shows to me that they didn't intend
00:44:51
for the packaging to blow up with the bomb or or be destroyed in the blast that they took precautions that they
00:44:58
thought that the packaging would likely survive the blast think about this way I mean I kind
00:45:04
of carry that over to the letter as well like assuming that the letter would survive the blast right and you think
00:45:12
though with a gift most the time when you grab it maybe you don't turn it on right away I mean that's that's the
00:45:17
other thing too it wasn't like this um the trigger wasn't Once you pull it out of the box it blows up it was you have
00:45:26
to turn this on so I mean you don't know that's what if he was like I know how a
00:45:33
flashlight works I don't need to test it you know what I mean right like so he just puts it over to the side
00:45:40
so again that's a tough thing cuz yes you would think most bombers would assume if I write a little note it's on
00:45:46
the package it blows up the note's going to blow up too but uh in this case it's
00:45:52
like because the trigger is turning it on who knows where that package is going to be once the the bomb is away from
00:46:01
that package well and that's that's something any sense no I I see what you're saying what B essentially what
00:46:07
you're saying is this okay if if I'm killing someone if I'm going to go out and kill someone if I if I'm looking at
00:46:15
them through across a field through the scope of a rifle yes even if there are people around them I could put them in
00:46:22
the crosshairs and choose that that's the individual that I'm going to shoot at when you send a bomb a flashlight
00:46:29
bomb that is triggered through the action of the on switch through the maale you are then hoping that your
00:46:37
target is the one that flicks that switch and it ignites the bomb yeah cuz if I'm if I'm not wrong I believe his
00:46:43
son said that he tried to turn it on his son did try to turn it on and we also noted that his wife and his brother were
00:46:51
in the room with him or in a nearby room when the when the flashlight exploded so
00:46:57
it's almost here here's what I wonder is the letter itself not a taunt is it is it in some way meant to throw them on
00:47:07
the scent of somebody else I don't know I actually lean toward the thought of this if I'm the killer I'm thinking the
00:47:15
the letter will survive the blast the packaging survives the blast but the purpose of my letter is to increase the
00:47:22
likelihood that Wayne is the one that flicks the switch and not someone that is just an innocent
00:47:28
bystander interesting what I mean by that he he says things that are familiar to Wayne to to drop his guard to let his
00:47:36
guard down and go I mean you can almost picture it in your head where he's reading it's an unexpected package right
00:47:43
we have heard rumors that people thought that Wayne might have been paranoid uh about one thing or another so what if
00:47:50
this letter accompanied this thing just for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that the target flicks the
00:47:56
switch and you can picture him reading the letter and identifi you know recognizing the names in it oh you did
00:48:02
business with me before picking up the flashlight with his other hand and just flicking the switch and boom yeah yeah
00:48:08
yeah and that's also the length of the letter how it's a little bit longer than it you know really needs to be is that
00:48:16
so he's you know reading with one hand and just messing with the you know flashlight and then flips it on yeah and
00:48:23
and I think a lot of this too is the uh you know the PS didn't realize you had moved had some trouble finding you I
00:48:32
don't know it have a very Merry Christmas and may you never have to buy another flashlight there that to me is
00:48:39
the is the taunt kind of at the end yeah I don't know that if there was any intention for this letter to make Wayne
00:48:47
picture somebody or think of someone before he ended up being killed I don't think that that was actually the purpose
00:48:55
of this okay a couple questions for you I'll start off with do you think the letter was to get his attention or do
00:49:02
you think it's a decoy what's Your Gut telling you again I really ultim maybe it's not telling you anything I
00:49:09
ultimately think that it was the sole purpose of the letter was to increase the chances that Wayne would be the one
00:49:15
to flick the switch of the power switch to to ignite the bomb causing it to explode hoping that he would be by
00:49:23
himself in part of that is the psychology behind um who would have sent this the perpetrator that okay so the
00:49:33
police believe that this individual would have held a deep-seated grudge or deep-seated hatred for Wayne right and
00:49:42
then here's the other thought though too if they are correct now this is not a 100% etched in stone statement by the
00:49:50
police but they did they did say in an interview that look we actually believe that it it's more likely that the
00:49:59
individual wasn't close to Wayne in the months leading up to his death because we think that there are actions made to
00:50:09
lead us to believe that they believe that Wayne still lived in Acton and didn't live at this Farm in in Moffet so
00:50:17
their thought is if they are right about this that if this means that something happened between this individual and
00:50:25
Wayne months before before the actual death because he moved almost 6 months before the bomb
00:50:33
was sent to the house so somebody had a grudge against him and they were patient
00:50:38
enough to sit on this Grudge for at least months could have been years right so and then on top of that police
00:50:46
profiled the sender of the letter and and stated that the person likely had a deep-seated hatred for Wayne but also
00:50:52
wasn't comfortable with confrontation and prer referred to retaliate from a distance now that goes along with just
00:51:01
about most every other bomber case that we've ever seen that's the psychology Behind These bombers the thought is that
00:51:09
it on the Spectrum on ways to attack and kill another individual that sending a bomb to
00:51:17
someone especially through the male is one of the most cowardice ways to to attack and kill them and what they mean
00:51:26
by that is just the the actual Simplicity of it's not upfront and in close in your face this is not someone
00:51:35
looking you in the eyes and choking you to death or stabbing you to death or even shooting you from a distance so
00:51:43
you're saying the Cowardly Lion is still a suspect what I'm saying is that this individual is probably not comfortable
00:51:51
with some kind of physical confrontation with Wayne or more likely with anyone okay so the the next question then would
00:52:01
be do you think this is coming from male or female typically if you're going to play the numbers game typically um males
00:52:10
are bombers um well if you play the numbers games males are murderers and and and Shooters and and mass explosions
00:52:20
and terrorists more so than females are right but but I mean when you're talking
00:52:25
about this specific type of attack that's typically a male uh more times than not it's committed by a male where
00:52:33
like so on the same spectrum of being a coward um typically you would see like with poisonings that's often conducted
00:52:43
by a female right and there's a little more poisonings are a little more sadistic in the sense that a lot of
00:52:51
times with with uh poisoning a it usually comes from a woman that is close to the individual because what we find
00:52:58
in the long run is they prefer to watch the individual suffer evil well they prefer to watch
00:53:07
the individual suffer where think about the person mailing the bomb their whole intent is to kill they're not they're
00:53:13
they're they have no intention they have no intention of watching the person suffer or watching the person die right
00:53:19
because they they mailed the bomb that's the now is that right all of the time 100% of the time no you know like I like
00:53:26
I was talking to somebody the other day and they were saying well you know it's it's never this until it is this one
00:53:35
time that it is this so but playing the numbers game it it would be a male who is coward who who's a coward that
00:53:44
decided to mail and the other thing too that's that's the recklessness of it right is that knowing that I'm going to
00:53:52
send this thing that could explode and kill some someone else I'm not directing the bullet I'm not steering the
00:53:58
bullet I'm sending this this this murderous weapon this murderous item out into out into the universe hoping that
00:54:08
it reaches my target right and we and we also heard from his family stating that
00:54:12
Wayne was gone a lot traveling so you almost again like you were going back to your point this kind of just
00:54:22
popped up into my head with him traveling so much that what if his wife opened the letter
00:54:28
and then she read it and was like oh well this is not for me right I'm not going to explore this package anymore
00:54:34
right and then we do have his name on the outside of the package that's another preventative measure to hope
00:54:40
that Wayne's the only one that opens it up furthermore the thing here too is as the police and investigators stated the
00:54:48
these are not explosives this thing was not constructed in a manner that you could slam it against a table hit it
00:54:54
with a hammer uhhuh toss it out a window and it will explode it was constructed this device was constructed in a manner
00:55:02
that it has to be triggered by the on switch of the flashlight therefore again really pinpointing your target I mean we
00:55:11
have the mail carrier who drove around with this thing for half a day in her in her vehicle along with her uh son or
00:55:20
daughter or grandson in the vehicle with her and then we have Wayne's son who picks it up he's actually the one that
00:55:26
picked it up at the mailbox right he puts it in his vehicle drives into town to get gas and then brings it back to
00:55:33
the house so you have all these instances where it could have blown someone else up the other thing that's
00:55:39
crazy too is that remember we have the remark of of uh I believe her name was Joyce the um the mail carrier yeah so
00:55:50
she says of the things that she remembered about the package she specifically remembered this package for
00:55:56
two reasons one it was decorative it had some kind of bow or ribbon on the front
00:56:00
of it two it fit almost exactly inside the mailbox now I've I've read a lot of things where people have discussed the
00:56:09
possibility of does this mean something again was this deliberate or was it just happen
00:56:16
stance some people to the extent of saying well would this individual have gone to the grette home and figured out
00:56:25
the the dimensions of their mailbox right which is interesting to me on on for several different reasons one like
00:56:34
I've never lived in Canada nor have I received a package while living in Canada but going off of what we know
00:56:41
here it's not that complicated of a system if the package doesn't fit in the mailbox it's placed in a location where
00:56:49
the recipient will pick it up you know at their doorstep on their Drive driveway something right right so I
00:56:58
don't know that necessarily anyone had to go to the mailbox to know the dimensions of such well it could have
00:57:05
been as simple as they went to the post office and and question H how big of a box can I ship in this certain
00:57:13
situation just like when we ship merchandise I mean that's one of the things that we have to figure out what
00:57:18
kind of box can we use for a mug what can we use for a t-shirt mhm but back to that same thought I also wonder I not
00:57:25
seen pictures of the Gravette mailbox but I mean here aren't most mailboxes generally about the same size yeah
00:57:34
there's probably a standard size yeah and then on top of that the the one thing that I think is is uh significant
00:57:42
is the extra postage to to ensure that this thing is absolutely delivered and you said well of course
00:57:51
you don't want this explosive device returning to you no well no no and that that's that's a very you know reasonable
00:57:59
thing to say but at the same time we've also gone through the construction of the bomb it's not a bomb that's that's
00:58:06
highly unstable and it's also not going to be returned to you it's going to be returned to this address where these
00:58:11
other people live right right right you know what I mean it's not going to return to
00:58:15
you it's going to return to these innocent people that live at that that address that that address that you
00:58:22
attach to William J friend [Music] all right thanks everybody for chilling with us here in the garage today if you
00:58:38
want to check out our full archive you can get that on the Stitcher app and if you want to check out our other show off
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the Record it's available at Stitcher premium and so much more to get to in this case tomorrow until then be good be
00:58:51
kind and don't litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of I about why I thought it
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