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older terms and conditions apply [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:56
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me is always is a man who once asked Marvin Gay what's going on here is
00:02:04
the captain and he had the nerve not to reply to me it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
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thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are very happy to be featuring judge jury and executioner by
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seven high alpha hop varieties from three continents this IPA is for the extreme hopheads out there ABV
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11.2% so drink this in your garage at home garage grade four out of five bottle caps and let's give some thanks
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and praise to our good friends that helped us fill up the old garage fridge for this week first up a shout out to
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sad and Warren m michig and a big shout out to Kelly and sunny Tampa next up here's a cheers to Kimberly from Mount
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everyone we just mentioned contributed to the Beer fund and for that we thank you yeah PW R you in beer run you need
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more True Crime garage for your earballs yes you do your balls need more make sure you subscribe to off the record on
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patreon or apple podcast subscription and Colonel that's enough of the business all right everybody
00:03:51
gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime guys down guys down
00:04:08
[Music] [Music] powerful moments in these closing statements from both the state and the
00:04:41
defense words that will likely stick in this jury's mind as they deliberate the state went first in their closing
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statements telling the jury Bridge guy is guilty of murder and Richard Allen is Bridge
00:04:55
guuy Nicholas meland told the jury that February 13th 2017 was a day this community will never forget saying it's
00:05:02
the day Abby and Libby went to the trails for a walk and never returned Mand said in the hours of people
00:05:08
searching for the girls no one thought anything bad had happened that this was a small community and these kind of
00:05:13
things don't happen meland pulled up pictures of the crime scene showing Abby and Libby's bodies saying quote this
00:05:19
next picture is hard to see but this is what they saw recalling the moments the girl's bodies were found Mand played the
00:05:25
video of bridge guy from Libby's phone saying something told Libby she needed to take video of The Man Behind Abby
00:05:30
that day McLean set up a timeline using Witnesses who testified they saw Bridge guy that day he told the jury
00:05:37
investigators knew quote if we could find bridge guy we could find the killer when Richard Allen was arrested 5 years
00:05:42
later McLean recalled what police found in Allen's home a blue car heart jacket a bullet in a memory box and a Sig hour
00:05:49
gun calling it the bridgeguy starter kit the state also replayed two phone calls
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Richard Allen made from prison the first confessing to his wife the second telling his mom he killed the girls MC
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told the jury qu Richard Allen is Bridge guy Richard Allen used his gun to force
00:06:04
the girls down the hill also telling them quote he slit their throats he left behind his calling card a bullet from
00:06:09
his gun meland called February 13th a day that bridg guy stole the youth and life away from Abby and Libby
00:06:17
[Music] this here Captain feels like in all eyes are looking at the situation everybody
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wants to know what's going on at the trial of Richard Allen who is on trial for the double homicide of Libby German
00:06:47
and Abigail Williams who first went missing and then sadly were found dead in February of 2017 in Deli Indiana in
00:06:57
the now Infamous case of the moanin high bridge bridge guy who everybody was looking for for so long until the arrest
00:07:06
of Richard Allen and then after all of this time we are now finally in the courtroom we recorded an episode that
00:07:13
everybody listened to not too long ago just a few weeks back about the start of the trial and some things that we were
00:07:20
hoping that would come out during the course of that trial and here we are once again reporting on this
00:07:26
situation which is the trial of rich Richard Allen who was facing double murder charges in Caroll County Indiana
00:07:36
and if the listeners remember they had to bust in the jury from uh another County there in Indiana because of the
00:07:45
concern that you wouldn't be able to find a jury that didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak because this is
00:07:53
such a a traumatic case and such a huge tragedy for this area in particular and so many people paying attention to the
00:08:03
news and putting ribbons on trees and around lamp post and such trying and hoping and banding together to find the
00:08:13
killer of these two young beautiful ladies that were just out there trying to have a good time out in Mother Nature
00:08:19
on a on a unseasonably warm day in February of 2017 where we sit now just to be clear
00:08:28
here unfortunately we're not at a point where there's a verdict yet and we are set to hear closing arguments but for
00:08:37
the sake of this podcast we're bringing to you what we've been able to observe and the information we've been able to
00:08:46
gather as far as the trial itself has taken place over the course of the last couple of weeks and we've been talking
00:08:54
about this case from the beginning 2017 so just to be clear we would not qualify
00:09:01
as jury members they would rule us out immediately Soh I think it's kind of difficult this case is definitely
00:09:09
difficult to look at with fresh eyes when we've been discussing it for so long yeah and the other thing that makes
00:09:17
it very difficult too is our own Curiosities right we've we've been throwing this thing under a microscope
00:09:25
for so long and looking at it from so many different angles that when it when there was finally an
00:09:32
arrest and now that it's working its way through the trial process I think that it's only human nature to want to know a
00:09:40
lot of details about that day that are probably not very necessary for a conviction or a quid so for those that
00:09:51
are hoping to get a absolute play byplay on the the day of Richard Allen and the
00:09:58
day of the the victims and if he's guilty or innocent uh and and and defining moments that could prove so or
00:10:06
otherwise you you're it's it's a little dissatisfying at at the end of the day but that is typically what we will see
00:10:15
time and time again with other cases as well once they do hit Tri you you have a
00:10:20
situation here he's accused of a double homicide he's plad not guilty says that he's innocent there are a plethora of of
00:10:32
confessions that he may or may not have made depending on who you talk to but it
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seems like he's made a good deal of them while his time waiting and leading up to
00:10:42
this trial after he was behind bars so we should probably set this up for people who have not been fully dialed in
00:10:51
on this trial that it is taking place as said in Carrol County which is in Deli Indiana so this is an a rather small
00:10:59
courtroom they've decided to go with first come first serve bases for people who can attend the court proceedings and
00:11:09
so there is a line that that lines up rather quickly each and every day for this trial of people that want to get in
00:11:18
some people that have a vested interest in the case maybe they are family members or extended family or
00:11:26
friends of the families of the victim or the accused and there's also people that
00:11:32
have a vested interest because we said it a dozen times maybe more on True Crime garage this was not just a murder
00:11:40
against these two poor kids but also a crime against the community the the wonderful communities of Deli Indiana
00:11:47
and Carol County Indiana uh at large as well so a lot of people with a vested interest in the outcome and the actual
00:11:57
proceedings of this trial as well one thing captain that is unique here and this is something that we pointed out
00:12:06
before it went to trial and this to me was one of the more interesting angles potentially for this trial and always
00:12:14
has been with cases in Indiana for me is Indiana is one of of the states where you have a situation a setup where the
00:12:26
jury is allowed to ask questions and I find that to be so fascinating but also refreshing I actually this is something
00:12:36
that I wish that they would incorporate in more courtrooms throughout this country I sat down the other night and I
00:12:43
tried to come up with a list of pros and cons for why jury questioning is good or bad and
00:12:51
I couldn't the I think the pros significantly outweigh the cons in these cases and I I really couldn't find a
00:12:58
whole of negative to say or suggest that the jury in all cases shouldn't be able
00:13:03
to ask questions yeah I agree and you've seen a couple times where the jury is deliberating and they might want to see
00:13:12
a piece of evidence again so i' I've seen that in movies and documentaries U but obviously like you
00:13:19
said we're not privy to be in this courtroom so we don't know how many questions the jury asked or or how that
00:13:26
was received what I love about this soap what I think works for this as far as a
00:13:33
as far as getting transparency in these cases look if you if you don't have a situation where the
00:13:40
jury can ask questions you may have them once they are in deliberation talking amongst themselves you can have
00:13:49
infighting you can have and they could have a situation where they're not so clear they don't have a clear unified
00:13:57
understanding of a detail of the crime or a detail about the suspect here when the jury can ask a question that allows
00:14:06
them to clarify to get clarification on different testimony throughout the the trial and as you said evidence that
00:14:16
could be could Point toward innocence or guilt the other thing that I think is interesting too to to kind of look at it
00:14:22
from this angle I think the jury questions could be helpful to both sides both the prosecution and the defense
00:14:31
because often times as an attorney when you are presenting your reasons why person a is guilty or or or innocent
00:14:40
yeah in a case you don't know if just because you you wrote it down correctly on your legal pad and you said it just
00:14:48
right in the courtroom if it really hit and resonated with each and every one of
00:14:53
the jury members it's a long day to sit there and listen to testimony and listen
00:14:59
to attorneys and listen to objections and if there are some key elements to your prosecution or to your
00:15:07
defense you want to make sure that that hits and resonates with each and every one of those jury members I think it's
00:15:16
helpful because if they stand up and ask certain questions you go okay well maybe
00:15:22
they're leaning this way on on this particular item or maybe I didn't sell that enough so next time I get an opport
00:15:28
oity I better I better come up with a different tactic I I think that it allows for a more thorough trial and
00:15:37
hopefully a more thorough job by both the prosecution and defense well we're just two dumb Dums in a garage and we've
00:15:44
done over a thousand episodes and talked about many things and there's many times
00:15:49
we get comments back where you question did this listener listen to the right episode because they they took what I
00:16:00
said and I don't blame the listener I sometimes there's just miscommunication and sometimes we don't
00:16:07
say things as clearly as we mean so like like you said I agree this is a really good thing and I think sometimes we we
00:16:16
have two victims here Abby and Libby and I think they've got lost in the sauce a
00:16:21
little bit Yeah and which is sad but we also have to remember that this guy Richard Allen is he's innocent until
00:16:29
proven guilty and his life is on the line his family's lives are on the line as well and because the crime is so
00:16:39
heinous that I think sometimes we go well who gives a [ __ ] about this scumbag yeah that can certainly be something
00:16:47
that takes place and and seems to be a matter of course A lot of times in these cases
00:16:55
but you as you so astutely pointed out that yes he is innocent until proven guilty the one thing here too is so many
00:17:03
eyes and ears on this case for so many months and then years and when he was arrested we we
00:17:13
were able to tear through the arrest affidavit the search warrant information and that
00:17:22
really showed us the evidence that they were working with to lead them to an arrest of Richard Allen and it hinted at
00:17:32
what we might see at the trial now the trial of course opened up with opening uh arguments which to put it short and
00:17:42
sweet the prosecution comes out and says Bridge guy killed these girls Richard Allen is Bridge guy and this case is
00:17:51
about him a man on a bridge and a bullet that was found and of course a cell phone but we so much has been discussed
00:18:00
about that cell phone footage over the years that and one thing that we we've said for the longest time is while that
00:18:08
cell phone image of bridge guy of the man walking across the bridge that approaches the girls shortly before they
00:18:15
are moved and then assaulted and killed that image isn't good enough that you can look at
00:18:25
it and go okay I know exactly who did this it's just good enough that you can eliminate a certain portion of the
00:18:32
population the bullet however if the science is true and if what the prosecution is stating is absolutely
00:18:40
true is a different scenario and I hate when people say that it's junk science it's not chunk science there is some
00:18:47
science to it it it to me it's overly dismissive to just say it's junk science this is not the first trial where
00:18:57
they've used ballistics this will not be the last trial well the expert for the prosecution I believe
00:19:04
she's been called hundreds and hundreds of times yeah and and the thing is too this is one argument that that I don't
00:19:11
like that many people say and maybe we've danced on this before but with people well it was five
00:19:20
and a half years the pressure was really on law enforcement to solve this and to
00:19:23
find some guy that that that they could accuse of doing it right yeah that pressure was on them the day after the
00:19:29
murders too the pressure didn't build the longer it it dragged out no i' would actually say it
00:19:36
dissipated and they they would want to be looking for the right guy all along because guess what if the pressure had
00:19:45
gotten to them at any point in this they would have arrested a different guy they
00:19:49
had opport they had people that were damn near convicted in the in the public eye for this that that were or not
00:19:58
facing trial today for the murder so I to me if if people are going to be overly dismissive in saying the bullets
00:20:05
junk science then I think it's only fair that I'm overly dismissive for the for the people that argue well they it was
00:20:12
five and a half years they had to arrest somebody well we've had a lot of speculation in this case I mean we had a
00:20:18
big turning point when law enforcement released a second sketch that looked completely different than the first
00:20:26
sketch and so because of that speculation I think people go well this investigation was awful and what we
00:20:35
speculated back then years ago was maybe that there was just too many cooks in the kitchen because if me and you go
00:20:45
interview 10 people we're going to know the the demeanor we're going to know the
00:20:51
the context of the the conversation we're going to understand our notes but when you have so many investigators
00:20:59
involved in and what happened in this trial and I think this is important his name is Miss labl adding his street name
00:21:09
to the last name and when it was refiled and they go wait here's this guy that came forward and told us not only was he
00:21:17
at the park but he was on the bridge that day so we got a handful of people at that Park that day but we only have a
00:21:25
couple people claiming to even be on the bridge and that's important and this guy claims
00:21:31
he was on the bridge and then once they figured out that this this file was just
00:21:36
mislabeled within five weeks of them having that filed correctly they had Richard Allen arrested yeah so from my
00:21:46
understanding here Captain the information they had the mislabel was the information was listed as Richard
00:21:53
Allen Whiteman right and and you can see how this lends itself to be a little confusing one could easily look at that
00:22:03
and assume that Allan I'm I'm sure there's probably a dozen people listening to us right now that their
00:22:09
middle name is Allan and so his last name fits as a potential first name or last name here or middle name I should
00:22:18
say and simply labeled Richard Allen Whitman and and so that person doesn't exist that well I shouldn't say that
00:22:27
there's probably a Richard Whitman out there right sorry Richard Whitman free Richard Whitman free Richard Whitman um
00:22:35
but yeah that's how it got labeled and mislabeled and things like that do happen unfortunately in these cases and
00:22:41
not just too many cooks in the kitchen as far as law enforcement go but there's no way that you're not going to go this
00:22:46
is an all Hands-On deck situation so of course there's going to be a lot of cooks uh in in said kitchen but also
00:22:54
when you factor in the potential of eyewitnesses for that day these murders took place in a public place that
00:23:01
anybody in the public for the most part had access to and therefore there's a lot of canvasing that has to go on and
00:23:08
there's there are there is private property or properties that are near here as well so there's a lot of
00:23:16
canvasing that has to go on and you have to kind of Corral everybody that was there that day or claims claims to be
00:23:24
there that day because I'm sure that they dealt with that as well right and people online when people make this
00:23:31
argument well Richard Allen came forward and talked to the police so why would a
00:23:36
killer do that well we've seen that happen in many cases that the killer wants to be involved or feels like if
00:23:45
they have conversation with law enforcement that they'll be able to get ahead of the investigation well and and
00:23:51
the the the two different composite sketches that are put together by different potential eyewitnesses there
00:23:58
there on the trails that day near the moan and high bridge don't overreact because this is not the only case where
00:24:05
we've seen a different composite sketch we we've actually I would say I I could probably put the number between 20 and
00:24:13
25 yeah cases where there's been more than one composite sketch and in some cases in very few but in some I've seen
00:24:21
more than just two composite sketches and I'm talking about some cases that are solved that are that have been
00:24:29
adjudicated well and just to be frank though when they released the second sketch and then law enforcement got a
00:24:37
lot of criticism with it look at the end of the day we the first sketch when they
00:24:44
arrested Richard Allen to me he could pass for the first sketch yes he looks nothing like the second sketch and I
00:24:52
thought it was an unintelligent comment or thought process by law enforcement instead of just saying well we messed up
00:25:01
or there might have been a lead or something and we could dive deeper into that on what my theory would be on why
00:25:08
they released the second sketch but because they held back that information their their comments to the public were
00:25:16
well he could be a mixture of the two I just thought that was a a stupid remark and when you have a guy that you
00:25:25
arrested he looks like the first sketch and I think because of those comments and because they weren't transparent on
00:25:33
the reasoning now they said that they were transparent with the family so maybe they would know they'd be privy to
00:25:38
that information but we're not and I think that raises questions but to me at the end of the day we have somebody that
00:25:46
was at the park he was arrested he looks like the first sketch so to me you could
00:25:52
check that box off of well that makes sense well and I think and this is just my own opinion here but I think that
00:26:02
they based off of eyewitnesses potential eyewitnesses and the cell phone footage
00:26:08
of bridge guy I think they were really confused about the age of the perpetrator I think that that might be
00:26:15
in part what led to the second sketch as well but my my theory is that and here's
00:26:22
what we know we H we have individuals that have come out on social media and say I was on the bridge that day at this
00:26:30
time and so it's very likely that somebody saw them entering the bridge entrance or exiting the bridge and so
00:26:40
when they initially release the sketch of who they think it is and and I think you can look at the first sketch that
00:26:47
was released to the public and look at the video and go well okay that makes some sense I can
00:26:53
see that individual roughly in in the video then then when they release the second sketch you're like I I just don't
00:27:01
see the second sketch lining up at all with the video but again the quality of video is [ __ ] we all know that quality
00:27:09
of the video is [ __ ] so and the quality of the picture that they took from the
00:27:15
video is [ __ ] but when you have individuals coming out and saying well I was on the bridge that's to me the
00:27:23
reason that they pivoted to a different sketch because I think that sketch was of somebody that they knew factually was
00:27:30
on that bridge that day that's just my theory or or as you were saying could have been somebody seen coming or going
00:27:37
from the trail head which right doesn't necessarily mean they had that they had to go to the bridge but we do know the
00:27:43
trail head does lead to the bridge um so yes and if I come off a little heated on
00:27:49
this episode it's just the way it is this is the case that we've been covering since
00:27:56
2017 it's frustrating in and it's sad that the victims are getting lost in this whole
00:28:04
[Music] case this show is sponsored by better help I'd like to take a moment to thank
00:28:21
my partner in crime Nick he shows up every week and is always respectful of the the victims it's been an honor to
00:28:29
work with him this month is all about gratitude and along with thanking my partner in crime there's another person
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[Music] garage all right we are back cheers mates tall hands in the air cheers to
00:34:51
you konel and cheers to everybody out there in listener land so the prosecution opens up this case opens up the trial
00:35:01
some of the people that we hear from first or early on is Richard Allen's family his wife Kathy we hear from his
00:35:10
daughter both of them will testify um from everything I've read and heard regarding the daughter's testimony she's
00:35:19
saying she's was never molested by her father she loves her father very much but would not lie on the stand to defend
00:35:26
him so very matter ofct type of questions and answers going back and forth especially with the daughter who's
00:35:35
not was not living with with the Allens at the time of of this case so really no
00:35:43
surprises there we do get a little bit of insight maybe not as much as we had wanted about Richard Allen's day that
00:35:51
day on February 13th 2017 and if in full disclosure clure here Captain I'm what I'm reporting
00:36:00
today is essentially heay I was not in the courtroom we talked about the complications of being in the courtroom
00:36:08
the line was filling up the night before and then as this case in trial went by day after day it was getting to the
00:36:17
point where people that that were in the courtroom at 4 p.m. on a on a Tuesday were too late to be in line for the wi
00:36:27
Wednesday morning session that's how many people were lining up to get into this courtroom so so I'm reporting all
00:36:35
of this and and the sources that I've used I've what I did there's so many people reporting on this that I wanted
00:36:43
to make sure that I was sticking with the same sources throughout my daily has be been been the Carol County Comet
00:36:53
which is the the County newspaper there anyone that's read my book the deli murders they know that that that
00:37:01
receiving that newspaper weekly was something that I had signed up for a long time ago to keep an eye on the case
00:37:07
and this is how dumb I am I even thought that maybe in some weird way I might see
00:37:13
the picture of this man in that newspaper at some point and I'm sure I'm not the only one that was dumb enough to
00:37:20
to think on that level we know people on the internet were looking for him on Facebook like like nobody's business so
00:37:26
that was one of my S sources the murder sheet has been valuable as well but i' I've leaned toward the comment more
00:37:33
because it's I don't want to say it's less biased because I don't find the the ana and Kevin on the murder sheet to be
00:37:41
picking aside that that wouldn't be my opinion of their coverage I I think that they're they're simply they're able
00:37:48
they've been able to get in the courtroom most of the time a and they are they are able to report on what they
00:37:54
are seeing and hearing some of the comments they have seen online about murder sheet is that maybe they're too
00:38:01
close to the case or they're too invested in the case and I I think that's a fair assessment from listeners
00:38:09
in the podcast world and in their defense we might be as well as you said we've been covering this case on and off
00:38:16
since May of 2017 we were one of the first to do it because a lot of podcasters shied away from it because
00:38:22
there was just no information you there was no story to tell you know a couple girls went missing we don't know
00:38:27
anything about their murders and they're unsolved that was the story in in May of
00:38:33
2017 we hear from Richard Allen's family the day the day in question do I have this right Captain he he goes to his
00:38:44
mother's house and I believe he meets his sister there yeah and at some point early in the day prior to arriving at
00:38:54
the moanin High Bridge and the the trail head there in Deli he consumes three beers yeah
00:39:04
something of that and you know maybe this is true maybe it's not true but you know when I tell a story and I go I was
00:39:12
at this bar and this uh fight broke out I was only three beers deep I was normally six at that point so he
00:39:20
consumed some alcohol yes I don't know if I believe it was three or more I don't know if that really matters but he
00:39:27
tells us Richard Allen tells us that he was at the park that day uh not only does he say that in confessions but he
00:39:35
also told the police he came forward and said I was at the park the day not just
00:39:40
at the park but I was also on the bridge that day and I think and I didn't kill the girls I'm sorry I'm sorry because
00:39:46
the the only thing I'm trying to make clear here and this is probably a moot point because most of the people
00:39:51
listening today have listened and know this case very well but I think one thing that really separates this case
00:39:56
from many other out there is that we he is not denying being near the crime scene that is right and most cases the
00:40:06
the prosecution and before an arrest is even made they law enforcement has to be able
00:40:12
to put the bad guy or the person that they think is the bad guy at the crime scene here they don't have to do that
00:40:20
now there's a little question about the timing of everything but he is physically putting himself at the crime
00:40:28
scene on the day that the crimes occurred yeah I think here's the questions you know it's what when where
00:40:35
who how and why and the what is the murders so where the park the bridge we have to place the killer on the bridge
00:40:47
he places himself on the bridge so when we say where I is Richard Allen can he be a
00:40:55
suspect because he was at the park yes he can be a suspect because he's at the park and and we have evidence to back
00:41:03
this up not just his word but we also have video footage of his car entering and exiting basically the park so so now
00:41:13
we have not just his word but we have evidence to back up that it's factual that he was there that day the day these
00:41:22
two girls were murdered he was on the bridge that day that the two girls were murdered that's
00:41:30
factual I was going to try to stay on the prosecution and then go to the defense but if you allow me to since
00:41:37
we're on this topic right now if you allow me to jump around I'll I let's let's just make this a giant pile of a
00:41:44
giant bowl of poop soup well and I have that recipe for anybody out there if you are curious we
00:41:53
happy we'll post that at truecar.com yeah yeah mouths are watering all right um so as far as the question about his
00:42:03
vehicle goes there was a lot of thought that maybe the because the manner of egress how the killer got to the trail
00:42:11
system how the killer exited the trail system was always in question people thought could it be the trail head could
00:42:18
it be the freedom Bridge could it be the the graveyard what about this car that was parked over by the abandoned old
00:42:25
child services building nearby yeah you know what what's crazy to me is like that seemed to be that
00:42:33
little nugget that was not the centerpiece of any story or any press conference but it was always kind of
00:42:39
included right like it always was like oh and we would like to talk to the driver of a car that was parked near the
00:42:46
old abandoned Child Services building right and so a lot of people and part of this trial is trying to determine if
00:42:55
that was Richard Allen's vehicle that was parked near that building you have SE some people that are presenting
00:43:02
testimony that it that it seems likely that it was his his vehicle there I think one person at the trial was even
00:43:08
saying something like it was parked strangely like parked in a manner that looked like somebody wanted to get away
00:43:15
quickly I love but then you have other witnesses that Des that describe the vehicle and it in their description
00:43:21
doesn't look anything like I don't think anybody could say that it would be similar to
00:43:27
his Ford Focus so the family owned a couple of vehicles and it's the it's law enforcement has put forth and the
00:43:35
prosecution has put forth the idea that Richard Allen was driving the Ford Focus
00:43:39
the family's Ford Focus on the day in question and there are some people that give a description that one could say
00:43:48
would match a Ford Focus there's also camera footage from a nearby store I think it's called something Harvest that
00:43:55
sees a similar vehicle to a for Focus uh that would be traveling in a direction toward the trails doesn't mean that they
00:44:04
had to go to the trails traveling in a direction toward the trails and then leaving in the opposite direction this
00:44:10
would be after the time before the abduction and murders took place and then seen after it's believed that the
00:44:17
abductions and murders took place here's the very big difference from my understanding in regard to the camera
00:44:24
footage versus the eyewitnesses statements about this vehicle that was parked at the abandoned building what
00:44:30
I've been told by law enforcement is that the Ford Focus in the video they say one thing that would set Richard
00:44:38
Allen's Ford Focus apart from the thousands and thousands of others of course will be color but also that he
00:44:45
has uh aftermarket rims different rims that so they're saying that makes this vehicle not oneof one but it it
00:44:54
certainly makes it much more unique now if you cross reference and compare that to the eyewitness statements about the
00:45:02
vehicle parked at the abandon building if you were to to get all these people and put them in the room at the same
00:45:09
time they're not going to be able to agree on the description of this vehicle and therefore the defense is saying well
00:45:16
that needs to put into question for you out there was this Richard Allen's vehicle or not to me I
00:45:25
go I don't understand what we're saying here because he's already said he was at
00:45:30
the crime scene so we don't we don't need to mess around with this vehicle to put him at the crime scene I guess as
00:45:38
you always say captain and I agree the devils in the details and here it would really boil down to well how long was he
00:45:47
at the crime scene and when did he arrive and when did he leave which you might be able to determine that based
00:45:53
off of the vehicle information yeah I think the other thing here that I don't understand why the prosecution didn't
00:46:01
push this issue more and we've talked about this in the past is Bridge guy is very short for a man for an average
00:46:11
adult so the fact that Richard Allen falls into that description not only just in his height
00:46:20
but also weight and then on top of that he's also admitted to wearing clothes similar to what he claims as similar to
00:46:30
bridge guy and so you go okay well he was at the at the park he was on the bridge he was wearing clothes that were
00:46:39
similar same height as Bridge guy he's about the same weight as Bridge guy it's kind of hard to tell because of the the
00:46:48
video quality I don't understand why they didn't push that more but again I'm not privy to every in every well no but
00:46:55
we've we've been told what we've been told and and this is fairly recent is that they couldn't just like my
00:47:03
suspicion about the age they couldn't agree on the height and it was a question of two in now but you got to
00:47:11
keep in mind that that two inches can go either way so essentially you have a question of four Ines and now you've not
00:47:18
really you've not done a great job of narrowing it down and so that was something that was probably I bet you
00:47:24
led to some heated arguments behind closed doors what to do with that information yeah so just to be clear
00:47:31
where I stand so far he's there we know that again I think this arguing about the car and all that nonsense I think I
00:47:41
I I don't really understand the point other than maybe the timeline cuz he said he was there so now are we just
00:47:49
trying to completely change the argument and say he wasn't there and then the other thing too is some of this other
00:47:56
evidence that the defense releases later you would go well you You' want his car
00:48:02
leaving at a certain time based on the evidence that they try to point out um so he's there he's on the bridge again
00:48:12
we only have a uh you know a couple dozen people that were at the park that day but as far as eyewitnesses go or
00:48:20
people that were at the park that came forward and talked to law enforcement we only have a few individuals that claim
00:48:26
to you and been near or on that bridge that day yeah and I think my opinion of what in
00:48:34
my understanding of the way that the the courtroom proceedings took place I think
00:48:39
that the the prosecution did a good job here now did they present an open and shut case no they did not but they
00:48:49
presented a case with the evidence that they have and I thought that they did a good job of of also getting ahead of
00:48:59
some things in the case right like the Richard Allen's family Richard Allen's family was called before the defense got
00:49:07
their turn and so they're already talking about his day the there was a lot of talk and discussion about and I
00:49:16
believe that this was the defense that was bringing forth the mental and emotional makeup of Richard Allen yeah
00:49:26
some of that was discussed by the prosecution though too because we had a counselor or psychiat psychologist that
00:49:36
was working with Allen at the while he was in jail waiting for trial so we get kind of what I view as
00:49:47
conflicting reports a little bit here it sounds like he had some some difficulties or at least that's what the
00:49:54
the defense presents quite a bit here um seems like he had some issues with alcoholism as well he had some
00:50:03
alcoholism issues U something about being terrified of conflict and there is it's stated that there's some
00:50:13
sexual abuse in his past and that he was the victim do I have that correct I believe so and I I think they were very
00:50:21
vague about that from my understanding I understand why the defense called younger females that are a part of
00:50:29
Richard Allen's life they put them on the stand to say he didn't sexually molest them um but again I I understand
00:50:39
why they did it but I think with mental health and one our lack of understanding
00:50:45
of it and mental health affects every individual completely different some people need to be medicated some people
00:50:52
don't it's um a conversation that we it's a it's a topic that we probably should be talking more openly about it
00:50:59
we've tried to do that on the show but here's what we do know when you when you have people wrestling with mental issues
00:51:09
they they're more likely to be suicidal and homicidal so I just think I know that
00:51:18
they're trying to set up this narrative that well all these confessions are false because it was just mentally
00:51:25
unstable but they also try to present it as he was only mentally unstable because
00:51:31
of the conditions that he was put in but it's like but you're also saying that he
00:51:35
was mentally unstable before then so and then you have to be somewhat mentally unstable to commit a crime like this to
00:51:47
and you have to be clear because what we've learned that these victims Abby and Libby they when they I don't know if you
00:51:57
heard about these the the way the the marks and the cuts on their neck but this is not just one cut and walk away
00:52:06
these were multiple Cuts uh we have vertical Cuts we have horizontal cuts and yeah you'd have to be somewhat
00:52:15
mentally unstable to commit a crime like this well and we've had weeks of trial and I got to say this Captain I'm even
00:52:23
after weeks of trial I'm I don't feel feel like as good of a job or as best of a job as I believe that the prosecution
00:52:30
could do here they put together and they rolled out their case for the for the jury to consume to to ponder to digest
00:52:41
and then to arrive at a verdict and their their case is basically this guy was there he doesn't look unlike Bridge
00:52:48
guy he was dressed like Bridge guy Bridge guy killed the girls yeah and Bridge guy
00:52:57
well that excellent let's Circle back to that but the bullet that we found near but it's described in some news outlets
00:53:06
as between found between the two victims matches a bullet that that came from ballistically we can tie this to his Sig
00:53:14
sour gun and then on top of that he has openly said in interrogations or questioning whatever you want to call it
00:53:22
with law enforcement that he that he owned a Sig hour he's never lent it to anybody ever for any reason at all and
00:53:29
yes he regularly carries it with him when he goes to those trails and he often keeps a round chambered yes and
00:53:38
then on top of that the ammo matched ammo that he had at his house and then and I think this is important too
00:53:48
because they found another bullet that was I believe on his nightstand or on on the nightstand inside a memory box but
00:53:56
but that was another bullet that was was chambered at one point in his gun so it
00:54:02
would have similar markings as the one found at the crime scene but he States in one of his
00:54:08
confessions that you know he he's telling the victims he's telling Abby and Libby I got a gun he says at some
00:54:17
point he [ __ ] it at the top of the bridge on the other side of the bridge and so if you go we have two bullets one
00:54:25
at the crime scene one at his house both chambered at some point but he can tell
00:54:30
you about the first time that he cocked that gun maybe he did find that bullet and that's the one on his nightstand and
00:54:37
then the other one he didn't find yes and that was the one found underneath or again like you said I mean there's
00:54:45
conflicting reports I I don't know it wasn't clear to me did they find the bullet between the victims or was it
00:54:52
found underneath one of the victim's foot yeah and the part of that too is the description of the the murder scene
00:55:00
where the girls were found and the some of the evidence that was found there physical evidence one being at uh excuse
00:55:06
me Libby's phone which we know was found underneath of Libby and so here's the thing if he's saying well I I cycled
00:55:20
around or racked around at the top of the bridge well that c certainly doesn't mean that he's innocent number one and
00:55:28
number two it actually strongly points towards his guilt because now he's already talking about moving the victims
00:55:35
which we know I keep saying abduction but that's the definition the legal definition of abduction you are placing
00:55:42
these people these in this K situation children you're placing two children who who feel scared to death scared for
00:55:51
their lives and now you're moving them to a place that they do not want to go to and if fact just being in your
00:55:57
presence is a place that they do not want to be the and here's the thing i' I've said this a dozen times on the show
00:56:04
I I own guns I'm not a gun expert uh I I know where the bullets go and how to pull the trigger much like I own a
00:56:12
vehicle but I can't take it apart and put it back together again yes the captain's witnessed that I I took it
00:56:18
apart and it's it remains it remains apart look at it right now it's a but if he pile of [ __ ] what what the captain's
00:56:27
talking about here is if he had to tell the victims gesture to the victims look I
00:56:34
mean business right yeah rack that gun and now they are under your control what that's going to do is as soon as he does
00:56:44
that that's going to spit that cartridge out the side of that that gun and it's going to immediately put another one in
00:56:51
the chamber so both could be true he could have done that at the the top of the bridge and they may have never maybe
00:56:58
he recovered it maybe they never found it may they being law enforcement and people processing the scene right but he
00:57:07
he could have unwillingly or even unknowingly racked another one during the course of a physical altercation
00:57:16
with one or both of the victims or in some kind of fit done it again himself yeah with not clear memory or
00:57:25
understanding that he did it the the thing here is what I the road I was going down and I know that this is this
00:57:33
is a really um really of no use at all but I can't help it it's from my own obsession with this case and and having
00:57:43
looked at it so many times you looked at it so many times we've you and I've discussed this so many times I cannot
00:57:48
tell the listeners how many times we've talked about this case off mik well I and just to be honest um I think I told
00:57:56
you the other week I can't wait for this trial to be over and I can't wait for the the election to be over because I
00:58:04
was having a you know I I I struggle with my own demons and I was having a hard time not just sitting around and
00:58:12
sifting through updates and listening to other podcasts and listening to uh I think her name is uh Pat Brown the FBI
00:58:21
profiler and you know and just you know not taking taking care of myself and because I'm so fascinated with this case
00:58:29
but it was making me physically sick and um I I think people have the right to question did they put on a strong enough
00:58:40
case but I think all this evidence is really hard to digest when we're looking at it
00:58:48
from a bird's eye view want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage right now at true
00:59:02
Crim garage.com we have a hoodie pre-sale so make sure you get those in time for Christmas join us back in the
00:59:10
garage for part two until then be good be kind and don't litter [Music] hi there it's Andy RoR and I'm here to
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