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GameChanger [Music] e [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always a man that likes his eggs sunny side up his juice fresh
00:01:53
squeezed and he takes his coffee like his women both full of alcohol he is the captain thank you thank you thank you
00:02:00
it's good to be seen and it's good to see you you crazy people welcome back to part two of the
00:02:08
Johnny gosh case and happy Halloween to [Music] you it's morning time in the garage
00:02:18
Captain so maybe by the end of the show we will be drinking Jade IPA by Foothills brewing in the cigarette
00:02:25
capital of the world beautiful Winston Salem North Carolina this is a wonderful wonderful beer let's give it 4 and 1/2
00:02:32
bottle caps out of five so very close to Total five there right this is a gem of
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an IPA using bold citrusy Pacific Jade Hops and Jade IPA was brought to us by Rebecca and Great Falls Virginia and
00:02:47
Renee in Alaqua Pennsylvania that's fun to say next we have Kim in waxall North Carolina also there is Rachel waxa wax
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00:03:41
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so get the True Crime garage flag shirt at True Crime garage.com and that's another the business that's right gather
00:03:56
around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true cry [Music] hey and just like the captain said we
00:04:06
are doing part two of the Johnny gsh case uh this is a boy that disappeared when he was 12 years old uh and I'll do
00:04:14
a quick little like uh John Madden recap of the first half for you right okay so
00:04:19
on uh September 5th 1982 Johnny gosh he was 12 years old he lived with his mom and dad and his
00:04:26
brother and uh he went out early in the morning to deliver the newspaper and one
00:04:31
of the other paper boys he was he was walking with his wagon pulling it be beside him and he one of the other paper
00:04:38
boys they had a spot where they would meet up and they would collect that day's paper well this was a Sunday so
00:04:44
it's a big paper and while he's walking towards the paper stack he's approached by a vehicle and this other paper boy
00:04:52
sees Johnny talking to the driver of the car um Johnny continues on his way to go
00:04:58
pick up the newspaper and again this vehicle pulls up to now where there's several boys and opens up the car door
00:05:05
and he's asking the drivers asking for directions now um shortly after this Johnny's going to continue on his paper
00:05:14
route and the boys are going to go about their business and do their paper routes
00:05:18
and some have reported that they saw a second man um not everybody is on board with that but at some point a vehicle
00:05:27
the same vehicle that that they had seen before four at the newspapers is seen just kind of you know squealing tires
00:05:34
and rushing out of the area burning through a stop sign and Johnny gosh his his wagon still full of newspapers is
00:05:43
found on the side of the road with his little dog Gretchen and Johnny may or may not have ever been seen again at
00:05:50
this point the parents just call the cops the cops are telling people in the community they believe it's a runaway
00:05:57
they think there's no there's no crime scene is what they say they can't find one so therefore they think it's a
00:06:05
runaway uh the parents also call the FBI the parents are talking to anybody that
00:06:11
will listen doing as many interviews as they can and then it kind of goes cold for a while until there's a rest by a
00:06:19
guy named Paul banasi so there was this pretty wealthy business in Omaha Nebraska called the
00:06:27
Franklin Credit Union and it was run by a guy named Lawrence E King and um Paul banasi says that there was all kinds of
00:06:36
parties going on at this place and there were children involved in having sex with adults and this was going on
00:06:42
because of the relationship of of Lawrence King with the Boys Town organization um and they were abusing
00:06:50
these children they were they were pretending to do nice things for them that's the allegation the allegation is
00:06:57
that they were abusing children and so this is Paul's story but not only that Paul says you know I was involved in the
00:07:03
Abduction of Johnny gosh that I was there the day that Johnny was taken and uh we you know we went around and this
00:07:10
this sex ring this child sex ring would abduct these young boys or young girls and take them and sell them off to
00:07:18
wealthy individuals perverted individuals and that this was all going on uh and some of these people involved
00:07:25
in this thing were were were known people were yeah people of power and success yeah
00:07:32
and again those are just all allegations uh but some of Paul's story checks out now these charges against
00:07:39
king would later be dropped uh they found that there was no merit to these allegations and uh he would go to jail
00:07:47
on some other charges I believe like tax fraud or or something or money laundering or something like that um
00:07:54
never getting charged with the crimes of this the sex crimes so so that's kind of weird but then Paul uh
00:08:02
Basi also had a civil suit against King and some other people and he won the civil suit none of that money has ever
00:08:09
been paid to Paul yeah and there was also quite a bit of few things that happened between the time that Johnny
00:08:16
was taken and that the you know Paul Basi comes onto the scene and those were things that we didn't get to get to in
00:08:23
the first half so uh the first thing that we should should note would be the dollar bill right captain mhm so in
00:08:30
1985 a woman in Iowa she receives a dollar bill in change she's at like the grocery store so this is 3 years after
00:08:39
the abduction yeah and she well let's not say abduction let's say from the date he went missing so she receives
00:08:47
this dollar bill and change and she reaches out to the gosh family and uh she says you know I I got this dollar
00:08:54
bill and on it it says somebody had wrote on the dollar bill I'm alive and signed it Johnny gosh and so she needed
00:09:03
to get this to the parents and and does so and they use this to help with their investigation here's here's some
00:09:10
evidence that Johnny could be alive you know obviously anybody could have wrote that on a dollar bill but noren is going
00:09:16
to say that that looked to be Johnny's handwriting yeah well of course she is I mean that's what keeps hope alive right
00:09:25
but what they what they did do uh which I think is a good thing is that they went to a handwriting
00:09:31
analysis um expert and had it compared and and they believe that it checks out with you know with some Merit there okay
00:09:40
so it's not just a mother a grieving mother looking for hope there is some you know but how much do I believe in
00:09:48
handwriting analysis I don't know again kind of a cruel joke to write on a dollar bill but you're also think about
00:09:56
this way 12-year-old boy goes missing uh who has who who gets a lot of dollar bills 15 you know 13y olds to 18y
00:10:07
olds and some kid doodling at high school pulls out a dollar bill and writes something silly get it gets back
00:10:15
to the Mom it's it's kind of freaky but I think there's some explanation on is it real I I don't know well and the
00:10:24
thing too is handri writing analysis is not used in court uh for criminal cases because there is no like General school
00:10:33
or general schooling for this to to be certified as a handwriting analysis expert yeah I think there's some online
00:10:41
tests that you can take I could probably get a like a diploma like that well like
00:10:45
from Jamaica or something you might have to study for a while you probably just send $50 in in some shipping hand and
00:10:52
handling and they mail you mail you that diploma from Jamaica yeah I mean I I don't know I mean I don't know if this
00:10:59
is um a dollar bill from from Johnny it it makes the story interesting you know the other thing though here too captain
00:11:08
that I wondered about is when you know like you said this is 1985 Johnny went missing in 82 so even if it was Johnny
00:11:16
that wrote that on the dollar bill who's to say that he didn't write it two days
00:11:20
after he disappeared you know and that that this is just now surfacing for some reason um I had wondered about that
00:11:27
dollar bills don't stay in circulation really normally that long though I do well I didn't know that but one thing I
00:11:33
was trying to do with the documentary I watched the documentary who took Johnny and uh you know they showed the dollar
00:11:40
bill the actual dollar bill in the documentary and I paused I paused the documentary and I got right up on the
00:11:46
screen trying to figure out you know look at the dollar bill real close and everything and I wanted to see the date
00:11:51
that that dollar bill was minted um because I you know that would give us some kind of idea you know if this was a
00:11:57
dollar bill that wasn't printed until 1984 and it was wrote somebody wrote that on there then that's that's even
00:12:04
more interesting to me than if it's a dollar bill that came out in 80 or 81 um you know CU I wanted to I I
00:12:11
wondered did he write on this two days after he was abducted did he write on it a week before they found this dollar
00:12:17
bill what did you find did you see could you see the DAT I could not see the date
00:12:21
I found nothing I was hoping to find a larger print of this picture on the internet but I was unable to do so which
00:12:28
raises a hair of Suspicion to me if if you really think this is some sort of evidence that proves that this kid's
00:12:36
still alive then why wouldn't I mean you got hundreds of pictures posted of Johnny on the internet why not post this
00:12:43
as well yeah uh what they do post if you look for Johnny gosh dollar bill one of
00:12:50
the things that people are trying to point out is the ow have you ever seen the ow in the dollar bill so if you look
00:12:56
at a dollar bill normally the right hand corner where it has a one mhm there's a
00:13:02
kind of a dip down and in this dip down is an out and a lot of people have been talking about this lately or maybe it's
00:13:12
just my crazy ass talking about this lately cuz if you look at a dollar bill like I said kind of like in the Sloop of
00:13:17
the of the one and the right hand corner is a little out and what does this mean
00:13:23
what does it mean uh well there's this there's this area called The Bohemian Grove I don't know if you ever heard
00:13:28
heard of this I have heard of yep so the idea is that that these rich powerful people meet at Bohemian Grove mhm and um
00:13:36
world leaders and they have these weird Retreats and they have almost these like
00:13:41
Satan Satanic ritual type uh events and and they it's like a mock sacrifice they
00:13:50
claim they don't sacrifice anybody but if you watch the any video footage on this it's it's it's a mock their SA
00:13:58
sacrificing a child so it's a little strange and Paul Basi talked about Bohemian Grove I I'm not for sure but I
00:14:07
I believe that's one of the places he had mentioned about these parties that would take place that were fundraisers
00:14:12
and things like that right which which would have been like we said uh 85 or so um yeah and just while we're on the
00:14:20
subject though I want to go into this for just to touch on it for a second he would say that that at these parties
00:14:26
typically what they would do is they would get these children organiz ations like the boys town and and different
00:14:31
groups where they would bring in kids and have them work the party and that they probably helped out with things
00:14:36
like serving and um you know waiting tables and and cleaning up busing tables things of that nature at these these
00:14:44
these fundraiser type parties and it wasn't until after the parties you know that that the the party would go on it
00:14:50
would be the successful people with and sometimes with their families there with
00:14:54
their wives or you know and this would be a legit fundraising party but afterwards is when the when the bad
00:15:02
stuff went down you know that that some of these guys came in from out of town and they would stay for for the next day
00:15:08
or two um or sometimes these parties after midnight got got crazy and got uh way out of hand yeah but see what's
00:15:16
going to happen and somebody's listening right now going the captain is crazy conspiracy captain and that's not true
00:15:23
because this is not a conspiracy people the Bohemian Grove exist yeah and but here's what's odd about the whole
00:15:32
Bohemian Grove for me is when officials have denied it and denied it and denied it and denied it and it wasn't until
00:15:39
somebody got video footage and said see you know at some point it's not conspiracy it's just what what is
00:15:47
happening at these events is it is it is there some dark twist after the fundraiser is over I don't know and
00:15:55
there's no proof of that but we have allegations there's allegations and you know when the feds when they raided the
00:16:04
Franklin Credit Union they came across like I think it was like over like 20,000 documents of of strange things um
00:16:13
and who knows what's on those documents this could all just be things of embezzlement and money laundering it
00:16:18
could be all I mean that's that's what they went to jail for yeah and it could be that's all that these documents could
00:16:25
say we don't know why because theyve sealed those doc and we're not going to be able to review
00:16:30
those and I don't I don't think that they've even put a release date on them uh this is stuff that's probably but
00:16:37
that's that's what the government does all the time you know I mean think about uh the the Kennedy assassination the
00:16:44
files that were supposed to be released I remember watching um um what's his nam's movie the JFK movie yeah and
00:16:53
thinking Oliver Stone Oliver Stone's movie and thinking oh it's a couple years from now we're going to these doc
00:16:59
know everything no they don't they don't release these they push the date back who who are they trying to protect I
00:17:06
don't know are they are they trying to cover up some uh sick uh child sex ring I don't know or is it just this money
00:17:14
was tied to this organization that was tied to somebody that was bigger and yeah can money stop this stuff can money
00:17:21
stop this information coming out oh yeah we see it all the time we're seeing it more and more now uh even with this
00:17:30
election uh and and I think as uh hackers get uh more experience uh we're going to have more transparency but it's
00:17:40
not going to be because uh the officials are given it to you it's going to be because people want to show uh people's
00:17:49
True Colors MH and I think we're going to see that more and more often so real quick back to the dollar bill right so
00:17:57
yeah we we kind of got sidetracked there but this govern conspiracy this case is
00:18:02
very easy to get sidetracked and actually we had an email somebody was you know pointing out a lot of things
00:18:07
that we did not cover regarding uh the Franklin Credit Union and some of the and this this sex scandal um but we're
00:18:14
not we're not here to cover the sex scandal you could do two or three hours on just the on Lawrence King the
00:18:21
Franklin Credit Union and that sex scandal just like we said in the first episode we're doing we're doing a show
00:18:26
on Johnny gosh FYI some people were scarred cuz you called him Larry King you scarred him like listeners are
00:18:33
scarred well his name is Larry King lence E King but it's not the Larry King that that we know from from TV from CNN
00:18:40
Lawrence E King so anyway back to Johnny gosh right we have the dollar bill now i' I'd wondered too you know if well if
00:18:48
I'm if I'm being captive right how does this dollar bill this dollar bill gets into circulation somehow you know it was
00:18:55
if let's pretend that Johnny did write on the dollar bill now it had to get into circulation
00:19:00
somehow did he give it to did he purchase something with this dollar bill or did how did it get into the store uh
00:19:08
how did it did it end up at a bank and then the bank you know they're making change for the store somehow this dollar
00:19:13
bill if we can believe it came from Johnny it got from Johnny to the store into the hands of this person that got
00:19:19
it in change now if I'm Johnny and I'm able to write a little note like that why wouldn't I just say why wouldn't I
00:19:26
just tell somebody hey I'm Johnny gosh and I would like to go home you know um this this creep guy captured me and and
00:19:33
I want to go home that's a lot easier to said I mean look we we know for uh a fact in a lot of these cases where
00:19:41
somebody's abducted no matter what age they they will talk about how yeah I was just in this place for a while then
00:19:49
all of a sudden now I'm outside and now we're going to the grocery store and now
00:19:52
we're going to fast food and and now I'm like in society and why well why don't you you ever tell anybody who knows I
00:20:01
mean who knows what the captor is telling them they could say look you're you're 12-year-old boy you and you seem
00:20:09
to be very close with your mother and your father mhm and they say hey look yeah you run away I might not be able to
00:20:15
find you but I know where your parents live I'm going to kill your whole family right and that and I think that's enough
00:20:21
of a reason or enough um you know depending on your relationship with your parents but uh to me I that would freak
00:20:29
me out and so yeah okay we're we're at a McDonald's or or wherever we're at and I
00:20:35
have this opportunity I have to give this money to the cashier pull out a pen real quick you know there was a rumor of
00:20:44
of a boy coming forward and saying hey I'm I'm Johnny gosh you know and and I'll tell the story best that I can
00:20:51
because like I said it may just be a rumor I couldn't find any you know multiple people uh come you know
00:20:59
reporting this story but well this episode is is really just all the interesting things around this case
00:21:07
again with the dollar bill is it is it him is it not him we don't know it's hard to say it's hard to say yeah I mean
00:21:14
I think if Norine believes it's it's a sign from him then possibly but that's the idea of this episode is just bring
00:21:23
up this interesting stuff whether it's true or not you know that's that's for the listen turn to determine now this
00:21:29
story actually took place about 6 months or maybe a year after Johnny went missing and from best I can tell a a boy
00:21:39
uh roughly the same age as what Johnny would have been at that time you know so now he would have been about 13 13 and a
00:21:46
half uh approached a woman in a I believe it was a gas station parking lot or some kind of small business parking
00:21:54
lot and said you know very quickly ran up to her and said I'm I'm Johnny gosh uh this man has taken me or the or these
00:22:03
men have taken me something to that effect and uh the rumor is that then two men grabbed the boy and and left with
00:22:12
him in a vehicle mhm well and if you watch the documentary this is not in the documentary yeah and I have a hard time
00:22:19
believe I think this is probably a rumor because there's there's a few things missing from this okay like have you
00:22:25
ever have you ever seen a situation where you're out and you question the situation especially when it's like like
00:22:34
a child like all the time I'm I'm questioning this situation right now no like I mean if I go to like one time I
00:22:39
went to a restaurant years ago and and I walked past this boy this little boy that had a black eye and he's sitting
00:22:45
there with his parents and I couldn't quit watch staring at the parents all the time while I'm eating I'm trying to
00:22:50
see if they're going to be mean to the boy you know what I mean so what I'm getting at is I think I think that most
00:22:56
people react and behave in similar manners and that my my Approach would be if if some kid came up to me whether I
00:23:04
believed it was Johnny gosh or not if some kid came up to me and said those things I would pay attention to the
00:23:10
vehicle that these people got into right I mean I'm grabbing the kid and saying you want to get this kid you got to come
00:23:16
through me but even if I'm what I'm getting at is even if I didn't believe the boy for whatever reason I would
00:23:23
still be paying attention to what's going on I I would I wouldn't just say right but whether or not I believe
00:23:29
him or not I'm just taking that kid but what I'm saying is this is why I have a hard time believing the story because
00:23:34
there's nothing going along with it whoever whoever said this they didn't say well it was it was two white men no
00:23:40
there's no description of either man there's no description of a vehicle there's nothing other than some kid ran
00:23:46
up to me and said I'm Johnny gosh and he was about the same age and then two guys
00:23:50
took him okay the only thing is what was the age of the person that said this because what if it was a 16-year-old
00:23:58
then then then I think the the story has more weight this kid came up said I was
00:24:02
Johnny gosh I was like what the what the [ __ ] you know and then he Johnny gosh
00:24:07
maybe the person didn't know who it was right I don't even know who it was but I
00:24:11
think if there was any validity to this story uh noren being so um uh active in this case I think if there was any
00:24:19
validity to it she would have fished that out and we would have seen that uh presented on the documentary who took
00:24:26
Johnny that's a good a good uh thing right there Captain you're you're exactly right noren if she believed the
00:24:32
story we would hear this story 100,000 times that's who Norine is she would go out and she would scream this from the
00:24:39
mountain tops and yeah which is great I mean that's what all parents should do and I really think that her actions in
00:24:45
this case have really changed the way some parents have uh reacted for when their child has been abducted and I I
00:24:53
think she set a good uh example even though some people you know there's a lot of
00:24:58
critics out there that think that she's crazy but uh and I wanted to mention my opinion of that story because that's
00:25:06
like a to me that's a caveat to our listeners okay a lot of our listeners are armchair detectives and you know web
00:25:13
sleuths and whatnot they're trolling the internet they're beautiful people they're not trolls they're beautiful
00:25:18
people well they're they're hunting the internet for in uh Clues and and trying to help out is what they're doing uh but
00:25:26
and a lot of times you will see these different stories and different eyewitness accounts on all these cases
00:25:31
that we do one thing that I look at when when I'm reading through these these eyewitness accounts is I'm looking for
00:25:37
someone that's telling a story with specific details because they're more likely to be telling the truth when
00:25:43
they're able to give you specifics rather than just this very vague foggy story of of a of a boy R randomly
00:25:51
running up to me in a parking lot uh so that that's just my caveat to to the armchair detectives out there all right
00:25:58
let's get into the next uh interesting tidbit after this quick beer break this show is sponsored by better help do you
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or visit angie.com today you can do this when you Angie that and we're back cheers welcome back
00:28:04
um so we have a few things to talk about with Mr Johnny gosh right we talked about the dollar bill we talked about
00:28:12
the rumor of the story of the person in the parking lot uh during you know in the first episode we also talked about
00:28:20
how the police weren't overly excited about investigating this case and and noring gosh has been very
00:28:27
uh you know she's she's complained often and very loudly about how lazy them yeah
00:28:34
yeah so uh we seem I mean look when you have a search party of you know 30 some people 30 to 40 people and and the chief
00:28:42
of police comes out and says hey this is nothing more than a damn runaway well and after after some time uh this was
00:28:51
police chief Orville Clooney uh he seemed to not he's the one that came out and said the kids just damn Runway um he
00:29:00
ends up resigning from his job uh there's an investigation that goes on into his act um and he after about six
00:29:08
months into this investigation he resigns um the way that this this investigation is brought about against
00:29:15
Orville Clooney is 18 police officers under his command uh start complaining and they're filing written complaints uh
00:29:25
from everything from from Orville drinking on the job to fixing tickets to racism and as well as him interfering
00:29:34
with an investigation uh regarding a case that involved his son well and in the documentary they also point out this
00:29:42
argument that happened uh because you know the gosh family said hey these PE you know this Chief thinks this is just
00:29:50
a runaway so they hire a pi and the chief of police was pissed off about this so he came and and was screaming at
00:29:58
them in their own house um so yeah he was let go again now this leads to the speculation that this is this bigger
00:30:08
conspiracy this bigger sex trafficking ring and that maybe this chief of police wasn't involved but knew some people
00:30:17
that were involved and that was the reason why he was from the get-go saying hey this is just a runaway what one
00:30:23
other story that's interesting regarding noren gosh in the uh private investigators that they had hired that
00:30:30
the gosh family hired and the police chief getting all all up in that business uh the the the private
00:30:38
investigator wanted to run a little bit of surveillance they were going to park some vehicles and surveil the area where
00:30:46
Johnny went missing from now they wanted to do this on a Sunday at about the same
00:30:52
time so they would be able to see what kind of cars what kind of people were going through this area at that day and
00:30:58
that time now this would be if you thought if you thought that this was a crime of opportunity that you just you
00:31:06
weren't watching Johnny that you were you weren't specifically looking to abduct him it's just you were you were
00:31:13
you know in the area yeah I don't think anybody was going hey here's this Johnny
00:31:18
G kid we're going to take him I think it's more of the idea that hey we know paper boys are out I think you're right
00:31:25
and I think that's what the private investigator was on to and he parked his vehicle and they wanted to surveil the
00:31:31
area and the police chief had uh police officers basically harassed them so they
00:31:37
couldn't do their investigation and I believe noren said that they even may have arrested the uh the private
00:31:45
investigator so just just another thing to to Really tick you off I mean if if they're not going to investigate the
00:31:52
case at least let the gosh family do it right at least let them try to find their son don't get in the way uh if
00:31:59
you're not going to be helpful at least back off yeah again but like I said this
00:32:03
goes with this idea that who did the police chief know mhm and maybe he knows somebody that is you know hey this is
00:32:10
your job you're getting a kickback or whatever it is I think he didn't like Norine gosh is what I think it is I
00:32:16
think he had a problem with her and I think he I think he was unprofessional we see these other acts of drinking on
00:32:22
the job ticket fixing racism I think he was an unprofessional dude and he let and he let his feelings his ill will
00:32:31
feelings about noren gosh get in the way of doing his job or letting his other officers do their job no I just think I
00:32:38
think he had a problem with a lot of people and then that came out and then obviously he had problems with a lot of
00:32:44
people if you get all these written complaints enough where you're going to resign M so I I don't think it was just
00:32:50
singular towards noren now let's fast forward to 1997 do you got anything to present before 97 because something big
00:32:59
happens in this case in 1997 go for it we have nen gosh she is no longer living with her husband uh Big Johnny Big John
00:33:08
is what we were calling him uh about 10 years after uh Johnny went missing the they ended up getting a divorce so yeah
00:33:17
most uh most of the time when a couple has a you know a child even you know die or go missing it normally is kind of
00:33:29
a a kind of a spear you know and and then it's something that it's hard enough to remain a couple just during
00:33:38
normal times let alone to have a a kid go missing mhm yeah a lot of times the marriage will not survive uh because of
00:33:46
this but they're divorced and she's living by herself and this is in uh March of 1997
00:33:54
and she says this was very early in the morning about 2:30 in the morning she's getting a knock on her on her door and a
00:34:02
persistent knock she says and to the point where she gets up answers the door now uh before answering the door she
00:34:11
looks outside and there's she sees Two Men And um she recognizes one of the men's eyes and says you know this this
00:34:20
he's got the same eyes as my boy and this man introduces himself as Johnny gosh he says Mom it's me I'm it's Johnny
00:34:29
she lets these two guys into her home and they it's not clear if it's cuz sometimes it's reported that uh it's
00:34:36
Johnny older a little older version of Johnny and maybe a boy or younger but depending on what website you read or
00:34:47
where you find this report from uh it's not very clear no actually it's two completely opposite stories right
00:34:54
Captain I've read one story where it's you said Johnny and a boy right and then the other story I've read was it was
00:35:01
Johnny and a man and it looked like Johnny was the other man was like giving him
00:35:08
the nod on things he was allowed to say and not to say you know that so kind of two very conflicting stories regardless
00:35:15
noren says in both accounts that the other man was whether it be a boy or a man was not introduced and did not speak
00:35:23
very often um but Johnny spent I've again with the stories I've heard as little as an hour I've heard as as long
00:35:32
as maybe two and 2 and 1 half hours MH um but he spent a considerable amount of time in noren's home
00:35:40
discussing what had been going on and and that he was yes he was involved in this he's been a prisoner in the sex
00:35:47
ring and that they will that he's afraid he can't go out and live his life again
00:35:52
he can't return to his family because they've made it clear to him that they will kill him that his life is in danger
00:35:58
and possibly his family's life and he's not even supposed to be there talking to
00:36:02
her at that exact time yeah this is very strange and this comes out um because she's at this um court hearing and
00:36:11
they're aski's court hearing for the Civil the Civil Trial yeah so they're asking her
00:36:16
all these questions and and you know you know I I think it comes out have you seen Johnny or anything since his
00:36:24
disappearance and and then that's when the story comes out she claims too that you know it was like you can't tell
00:36:30
anybody because they'll kill me mhm so that's this is the story a lot of you know uh friends of mine that follow our
00:36:39
show you know I'll I I kind of put out feelers you know so we're talking about this Johnny gosh case with some of my
00:36:46
buddies and and and one of them the coach from Ohio uh was telling me this is a story that he just doesn't buy
00:36:53
right uh to him it doesn't come off um genuine uh I I don't know what to make of it I mean I don't buy it either well
00:37:02
it's weird because one you you don't tell anybody for years two it was about two years yeah and then
00:37:11
yeah I mean you shouldn't lie under oath you shouldn't lie ever but you're going
00:37:16
to then say it you know two two years afterwards you're going to bring it up in court that's going to be printed you
00:37:23
know so uh the coach from uh up north was telling me he thinks it's just a a way to keep the story keep some momentum
00:37:32
of the Johnny gsh story going um because the more you can talk about it more more
00:37:37
likely you can get answers and that's kind of what he believes norin was doing I think uh I think a couple things
00:37:46
happened here Captain okay um one thing that they didn't actually I don't know if they said it in the documentary or
00:37:54
not but I I don't believe that they did nor was actually she was on national TV shortly before this happened so this was
00:38:01
not just a random knock at the door one night uh she was on national TV I believe it was the Lisa show you
00:38:07
remember the Lisa show was one of those like afternoon talk shows nope uh it's kind of a rip off of Sally Jesse Raphael
00:38:14
so she's on the show and on the show this is National Television she says Norine gosh I no longer live at at our
00:38:23
old home Johnny our your parents have gotten divorced I still live in the area this is where I
00:38:29
live this is my address if you need to reach out to me if you ever want to come home if if you can ever escape your
00:38:36
captors um here's the problem you it's very tough man you I understand that she wants to help her son and that that
00:38:45
she's doing everything she can but if if you're going to put your address on national TV there's a decent chance that
00:38:53
some a-hole might might pull a prank on you um I don't know that that that's what went down but that's my suspicion I
00:39:01
think somebody some jerk and his friend probably knocked on her door probably said hey it's Johnny I'm home you know
00:39:09
and I think that's more far-fetched than just the thing that Norine just made it
00:39:13
up possibly possibly I think regardless I mean of course uh that's what I think happened I think that somebody pulled a
00:39:21
prank on her I don't think but I don't think that if that is the case I don't think that she beli that it was Johnny I
00:39:27
think what happened was she got on the stand and they're grilling her and they're saying you know well why are you
00:39:34
even testifying in this in this trial well because this is what happened to my son he's he's been abducted in this sex
00:39:41
ring and he's being traded and sold and well how do you know that that happened how do you even know he's alive well I
00:39:48
he came to see me and exactly what you said the the other problem with this the biggest problem with this story is the
00:39:55
reasons for keeping it secret are the same reasons that this story cannot be true in my mind you you didn't tell
00:40:03
anybody for two years or two and a half years you kept it to yourself because you were afraid for his life yet you
00:40:10
weren't afraid enough to to to not say it on on stand you know it and like you said it's released in the papers then
00:40:17
she's on TV on Sally Jesse Raphael months later and she's telling the story again was UN Sally Jess was she un Sally
00:40:25
she was yeah oh nice glasses um I don't know the the tough thing about this is with noren I feel that she's authentic I
00:40:35
think she she comes to off to me as authentic uh she comes off as very caring very intelligent uh I don't know
00:40:45
how much I buy this story but but that's what makes it difficult because it seems
00:40:49
like uh she you know she's a good person so I want to believe her uh I I just don't know how much that story makes
00:40:58
sense to me no you're exactly right she I agree she's a very good person she's done great things for trying to find her
00:41:05
son she's refused to let this case on top quiet right but you put it's not just she turned it in from not only is
00:41:16
she still trying to find get answers about her son she has done work to help thousands and thousands of other
00:41:25
families there there's kids that go missing every day and for whatever reason and and because of her effort she
00:41:34
has changed the landscape of this well and if you're at home or wherever you are thanks for listening um you and
00:41:42
you're going well how can they defend norin gosh well all right just hold on here second hold on you know let's keep
00:41:49
in mind don't think anybody's saying that we got good listeners no I know but keep in mind she's a victim she's lost
00:41:55
all right she's she's been lost uh mentally and emotionally because of this horrible thing that's happened to her I
00:42:01
don't think she's been lost but in the process words not mine in the process you know she did change remember there
00:42:07
was a 72-hour waiting period for the police to investigate Johnny's disappearance the reason being is back
00:42:13
then in the early 80s they didn't distinguish the difference between an adult a missing adult and a missing
00:42:20
child there was no difference legally to the police so what she has done uh she has made that change in Iowa that
00:42:29
has change that has also created change in other states now where the police and
00:42:35
FBI have to distinguish the difference between adults and children and now when there's a su suspected abduction or a
00:42:42
missing child they are to investigate immediately and we all know that we all know from having done this for so long
00:42:50
that the first 48 hours is the most crucial to any missing person's case out there you're more like to find them
00:42:56
alive if you can find a lead or find them within the first 48 hours so she's made that's a huge change and then the
00:43:03
other thing that we talked about as well she gets involved with the Walsh family
00:43:07
and other families of missing children and they form the national Center for missing and exploited children which is
00:43:14
which has gone on to do great things and since the induction of that um organization the the the success rate of
00:43:23
finding children and finding them alive has gone up greatly mhm yeah I mean so hands down uh what whatever you think of
00:43:33
her look I I don't think anybody's at home going why are you defending her I think it's not
00:43:40
now joking all right so yeah and then there were some pictures found so you want to talk about those pictures how
00:43:46
about you tell us about the pictures well there's a series of pictures really yeah so this was in uh September 1st of
00:43:54
2006 um Norine gosh says that she receives some Anonymous anonymously receives some
00:44:01
photographs and there's a few different photographs like you had said there's one of it looks like some some young
00:44:08
teenage boys tied up on a bed or a couch right um and then there's one of a single boy uh that appears to be tied up
00:44:16
now it's the single boy in as far as the documentary goes um and there's a lot of
00:44:22
Norine interviews out there I recommend watching watching most of them there's always something interesting in her
00:44:29
interviews um especially especially if you're as fascinated about this case as I am but she does say that the the boy
00:44:37
the one boy she can see what appears to be that birth mark on on the chest that she that we spoke of Johnny has a
00:44:46
discoloration uh on his chest kind of the shoulder area but what what's but here's what's strange so there's a group
00:44:53
of three boys in one picture she says the one on the right is Johnny if you look at the pictures of Johnny that went
00:45:00
missing and this boy H similar but it's like it's hard it's a stretch it's hard to make out well what what happened was
00:45:10
the lead investigator of a case in Florida comes out and says hey we know what this picture is we know who these
00:45:17
boys and that boy is not Johnny gosh so there's there's a situation where a mother is saying that's my boy and it's
00:45:25
we have uh factual evidence to say no it's not MH now there's this other boy and
00:45:31
there's tons of pictures if you type in Johnny gosh um and just do a image Google search this boy shows up over and
00:45:39
over now here's where I stand on this now this is again Norine says this is my boy now this boy is not accounted for
00:45:48
and if you watch the documentary they talk about that what I find interesting is that Big
00:45:54
John says it's that's not my boy yeah he doesn't believe that's his son um it's it's very difficult
00:46:04
because you know as you change that your nose changes a lot right mhm so that that it's like and now look I've only
00:46:15
seen a handful of pictures of Johnny you know like the paper boy picture the famous paper boy picture um where he has
00:46:22
his little sashel and he's going on his route if you look at that picture and then you look at this
00:46:28
boy it's hard for me to tell cuz kids age you know the way they age it's hard to tell you know uh you
00:46:37
know I was a a stepfather for two boys and I don't see them often and when I see pictures of them now they've changed
00:46:46
quite a bit yeah I mean I can tell it's them but there's so many features that are just a lot different and so I think
00:46:54
maybe a mom would know that you would see it in the eyes I think that you know the eyes don't change yeah um so maybe
00:47:01
that's what she's seeing I don't see it and like I said for for the record the the Big John doesn't think so either I I
00:47:08
thought that the the picture of the boy that was unidentified I thought that the hair and
00:47:14
and the eye color was close or or the same um but the boy looked a lot thinner to me which I I understand people can
00:47:23
lose weight especially if you're being um but the fathered out the the size of the foot um that he believed that Johnny
00:47:33
would have had bigger feet even at the time of his you know it we're guessing that the pictures are taken later
00:47:39
obviously so his foot should have grown rather than your feet don't shrink well what's weird about uh this unidentified
00:47:46
boy right if it's Johnny we don't know but uh Paul benasi talks about a branding Mark that these captors put on
00:47:54
people people people that are in charge of the sex ring they put a brand Mark now when he said this when he came out
00:48:01
and said this people thought he was crazy but then people came forward and showed their branding marks that they
00:48:07
had on them and not all the pictures but later on I think the pictures that they
00:48:14
think are older uh H this kid now has a branding mark on so I I think that's interesting
00:48:21
that that um is a direct tie to Paul bonas's um claims and it's also interesting that
00:48:29
the kid is never identified you know usually you know that's that's we had these same questions when we had when we
00:48:36
did our photograph interview or our photograph episode well and because that he was never
00:48:42
identified that means you can't rule it out it's it's very possible it could be Johnny it could be Johnny or at the very
00:48:49
least it's another kid that's been taken and you know yeah and and for all record
00:48:55
I have no record of any other parent you know or group of parents that are coming
00:49:00
out saying no that's our boy that can't be Johnny cuz that's our boy uh so I don't know again and like I said I think
00:49:07
the mother would know you know to be honest with you cuz you know sometimes men are dumb uh I believe that the you
00:49:15
know the mom would have a better um way of identifying him than than probably the father
00:49:21
would yeah I can agree with that uh but Norine certainly wants everything to be Johnny you know the the dollar bill the
00:49:29
the person on the doorstep the the the photographs of course she does um and and and rightfully so um but I think I
00:49:37
think here's what here's what I think is going on here Captain I think that we have we probably have a situation where
00:49:44
the Franklin uh Credit Union was involved in some kind of child sex scandal I can believe that do do I
00:49:51
believe Paul Basi that he was abused yes I believe that he was abused at some point I don't know that I don't believe
00:49:58
he has multiple personalities I don't believe he was there when Johnny goshh was taken I think Johnny goshh was
00:50:06
probably taken by an individual that's a pedophile that was hunting in the area for uh for young boys 12 13year old boys
00:50:17
that he could abduct and and so let's go over some things here regarding statistics so in the state of Iowa now
00:50:24
one thing I will say the state of Iowa has a fantastic website for their cold cases um that which includes missing
00:50:31
persons uh here in Ohio we have a database that you can go to and it's it's unsolved homicides but I don't
00:50:37
believe that I couldn't I don't know of one that you can find for missing persons in the state of Ohio yeah
00:50:43
there's one out there oh there we go so uh but Iowa has one as well and what some stats that I pulled off of there so
00:50:51
from well the the na the Nationwide database she can search by state and city from n from the year 1930 to uh
00:51:02
currently uh the state of Iowa has 137 missing kids and adults people that have never been found anywhere or or
00:51:12
reported themselves as still being around and living elsewhere to this day now that doesn't seem like a huge number
00:51:19
when you go all the way back to 1930 but the fourth person listed on there disappeared in 1972 so what does that
00:51:27
mean that means we have 133 missing kids and adults between the years of 1973 and
00:51:36
2016 in the area of De Mo Iowa we have 35 in that time period and in pul County we have 37 in that time period so that's
00:51:47
almost one missing person a year since 1973 right well I mean some of that stuff before the 70s is it's just not
00:51:56
being reported you know you'd have a a 16-year-old you got to remember the times too and in the in the 30s in the
00:52:03
40s and 50s and stuff like that there was a lot of people that left home at 16 mhm you know because you're adult at 18
00:52:11
most people are expected to leave the house now now we have situations where you know people move back from college
00:52:17
you know they're in their mid 20s even their early 30s living with parents still but back in the day I mean 16
00:52:25
17year old run away they go they're almost an adult they'll take care of themselves and that stuff wasn't
00:52:31
reported um now if there's going to be a lot of people going missing in one area
00:52:36
I think that leads to the idea of some kind of sex ring you know what I mean sex trafficking human trafficking we we
00:52:44
you know this is this is something like in 82 when they're talking to the police
00:52:48
chief and they're talking about a pedophile they didn't even know what the hell they were talking about right and
00:52:53
then in the last five years I mean 5 10 years ago you say human trafficking people go what the what are
00:53:00
you talking about and this is a reality that we're just becoming more aware of you know so but I I think we're I don't
00:53:08
think we're dealing with a with a with a sex child sex ring here that that's plucking children off the streets of De
00:53:16
Mo Iowa I I don't think that's the situation I think the situation is we got one bad dude out there that that uh
00:53:25
has done this multiple times um you know we a couple of the cases from that area
00:53:32
okay so we have Eugene Martin aged 13 he went missing August 12 1984 well one of
00:53:38
the kids that went missing um Norine actually got was contacted she was contacted before had um a lead um I
00:53:52
don't know who gave it to her but it was basically the idea that a another kid is
00:53:56
going to be taken this is the date and this is roughly the time and then another boy went missing and then noren
00:54:05
uh got in contact with the family well the family was then told beforehand don't talk to noren gosh about this
00:54:13
stuff she's crazy uh but but she also had a date and time of of when a kid's going to go
00:54:20
missing and a kid went missing well I don't know anything about that but I want to talk about Eugene
00:54:26
Martin's case Okay so he goes missing August 12 1984 this would be 23 months after Johnny goes missing MH uh and this
00:54:36
is a story that you're going to say well that sounds familiar because it it's the
00:54:40
same story Eugene Martin leaves his home approximately at 5:00 a.m. that morning
00:54:45
to deliver the newspaper he goes out on his paper route now there's multiple eyewitnesses again in this case as well
00:54:53
some report between the between the time of 5:00 a.m. and 5:45 a.m. that Eugene Martin is seen talking with a cleancut
00:55:01
white male in his 30s other persons report having seen the same activity between the time of 5:45 a.m. and 605
00:55:12
a.m. now between 610 and 6:15 his bag is found his newspaper bag is found and it's got 10 papers in it
00:55:21
this is found by the route manager you know you talked about your district manager in our first episode well what
00:55:28
happened was they were starting to receive phone calls of people not having received their paper the district
00:55:33
manager goes out and he finds the paper bag and he picks up the papers and he just delivers the rest of them right um
00:55:41
it it's later determined that Eugene Martin is missing and we have a problem here right so what what happens shortly
00:55:48
after that is that the authorities send out a nationwide bulletin to be on the lookout for a man man between the ages
00:55:56
of 30 and 40 years old who is 5'9 in tall clean shaven with a medium build well what do we see here captain
00:56:05
that we saw on in in Johnny gosh's case 5 foot n 5 fo9 in tall that's the same height that that the eyewitnesses
00:56:14
describe in the Johnny gos gosh case of the suspect for that case the problem with that suspect is he didn't he wasn't
00:56:22
out of the car the one that was driving the car right but they were able to come up with
00:56:27
with a a general height a general height and we're seeing that they're using saying it's a lot easier for me to tell
00:56:33
you how tall you are if you're standing up than when you're sitting down in a car I 100% agree with that now we have
00:56:39
another case we have Mark Allen age 13 we're okay Johnny is 12 almost 13 years old Eugene Martin is 13 years old Mark
00:56:49
Allen 13 years old he goes missing March 29th 1986 this is less than two this is a
00:56:56
year and seven months after Eugene Martin goes missing now this is a uh Saturday evening it's the day before um
00:57:06
uh Easter and Mark is at his mom's home and he's leaving to go meet some friends
00:57:12
he's going to walk and meet some friends and they might even take in a movie or something according to what he told his
00:57:17
mother he's last seene leaving the home his mother doesn't suspect that he ran away because uh
00:57:25
the boy says as he's leaving save me some pizza uh I'm going to be hungry when I get home tonight um he he walks
00:57:34
toward down to the street over to some bushes and he turns and he waves at his mother his mother waves from the window
00:57:42
and that's the last time she sees young Mark Allen uh he's he's never seen again yeah I mean when I was watching
00:57:51
the documentary I think th this I don't know why this story it really Disturbed me on the
00:57:58
idea that I mean here's this you know 13-year-old kid and uh you know think about that you you get pizza night that
00:58:06
was like a big thing in my household Growing Up Normally Fridays you got the TGI you know the the shows would come on
00:58:13
with URL and all that stuff and uh step by step there was just a lot of bad shows on but you get your pizza and you
00:58:21
hang out with your family or maybe have a friend over so I think maybe those childhood memories just the whole idea
00:58:28
where he's going to go hang out with some friends and says you know save me some pizza I don't know why but that to
00:58:34
me I just am a little disturbed by all that we have three boys within a a four month or sorry fouryear time period that
00:58:43
go missing two of them they're out on paper routes at the same time of day um right but you're the one that keeps on
00:58:50
saying we don't have a sex trafficking ring right I I don't think we have a ring at all I think we have one guy
00:58:55
that's going out and going you know what I know that there's young boys delivering the newspapers on the
00:58:59
weekends I I'll drive to the neighborhood and there's two of them an abduct one um you know and all these
00:59:06
cases take place on the weekend um two of them very similar in my opinion we see roughly the same time period uh
00:59:15
where it's about a year and a half to twoyear gap between each each of these cases and we're also seeing victims that
00:59:22
are all the same age they're the same race they come from similar backgrounds they're all in the same area these are
00:59:29
all boys from De Moine Iowa right but to me that leads more to the uh idea that this is what type of person we're
00:59:39
looking for or this is what type of child were looking for and there's a reason behind that and I don't I don't
00:59:44
think it's just one person I mean I I think it's kind of silly to dismiss everything that Paul Basi is saying and
00:59:52
all the claims that he are all Thea claims that he has made that have been backed up I mean he talks about oh yeah
00:59:59
when we take these kids to this house in Colorado all that house is there but again there's no vehicle there's no
01:00:06
amelo there's you know he he tells us a lot of things that are backed up but nothing in regards in direct regard to
01:00:14
Johnny goshh he tells us about all these other things that are going on but nothing that has to do with the
01:00:20
abduction or the sale of Johnny goshh and that thing is back but what he does tell you and what he and the reason why
01:00:28
norin believes that he was involved is the idea that he brought up things like the the scar on his tongue the scar on
01:00:37
the back of his leg things that were not reported in the paper M and this is the
01:00:41
reason why norin believes him again how did he just make that [ __ ] up I I don't think so I think that's a
01:00:48
far stretch I mean you're going to try to tell me that you know you just met a kid one time and you know know they have
01:00:54
a scar on their tongue but did did norin or did investigators or anybody lead him
01:01:01
into coming up with those to to coming up with those descriptions no but look nobody nobody believed him when he said
01:01:09
uh hey by the way there's this cabin or this house that we go that we take these
01:01:13
kids to in Colorado and everybody thought he was full of [ __ ] they drive out to Colorado oh [ __ ] there's a house
01:01:20
there mhm he goes oh yeah by the way uh in the back there's this uh secret little passage and there's going to be
01:01:26
these tunnels dug and cuz that's where they put kids yeah but that has that has nothing to do with Johnny gosh's case
01:01:33
that no but what I'm saying is that it proves that there's validity to what he's saying to some of his story and and
01:01:40
not only that but oh there's this branding Mark that they make and then a bunch of kids come forward we don't have
01:01:46
a problem with sex trafficking we have this is a problem and look I mean I don't know I to me uh
01:01:57
maybe it's just random but uh and maybe Paul Basi is you know brought up this Johnny gosh case for for no reason and
01:02:05
uh and maybe some people led him down the path on on the Johnny gosh case but as far as um you know a lot of his story
01:02:15
checking out I mean I'd say at least 50% of it does yeah and there's some people
01:02:20
that would point out that we've never you know because we've never found 's body that that's further proof that he
01:02:27
was abducted and was thrown into this Che this child sex ring um and kept underground and captive for all these
01:02:35
years but you know take a minute and review the the Jacob wling case uh the the 11-year-old boy that went missing in
01:02:44
1989 uh he we end up learning you know almost 30 years later that he was abducted at gunpoint uh that that he was
01:02:53
held for not very long at all he was sexually abused and assaulted and then killed shortly after his abduction and
01:03:00
they and he was buried in a remote location um unfortunately when we read about cases
01:03:06
like that and investigate cases like that we're reminded that when people go to lengths of of such a burying people
01:03:14
that they can remain hidden from us for a very long time if not if not forever uh one I would love to know if anybody
01:03:23
has questioned d Danny Henrik he's the one or sorry Danny Hinrich he's the one that uh was later uh that we learned
01:03:31
abducted Jacob wling I know it's in a different state but it's not terribly far from one another and this guy he he
01:03:38
comes off to me as a serial killer I don't think that this Jacob wling was a one-time thing for him um another person
01:03:46
of interest in this in Johnny's case and the other two boys um Eugene Martin and
01:03:52
Mark Allen uh would be a a man by the name of Roger Mattis uh he was somebody that lived about an hour away from uh
01:04:01
West de Mo uh and back in 1966 when he when Roger Mattis was 24 years old he attempted to abduct a 12-year-old
01:04:13
newspaper boy uh the boy was going around on his route and he was collecting the bills you know he's you
01:04:20
remember you'd have to knock on the door and say hey you forgot to pay me for this month forgot to pay me for the last
01:04:26
six months yeah and really they didn't forget to pay I think they just didn't want to pay they' always say I'll get
01:04:32
you next week yeah so he goes to he knocks on this Roger mattis's door and Roger Mattis tries to grab the kid and
01:04:40
and pull him into the house well the kid gets away uh he's grabbed by the shirt and he ends up slipping his arms out of
01:04:47
the shirt and so he can get away from this creep um yeah I know this is about a it's an hour away it's 1966 it's not
01:04:55
not 1982 but let me describe this Roger Mattis for you he's described as dark brown eyes with black hair and he's
01:05:04
5'8 uh he would have been in his early 40s when the boys went missing uh there is a problem with this though he would
01:05:13
have been living in Chicago in the 80s uh this again is not terribly far for him to drive and the other thing we have
01:05:20
to consider here is his parents and his grandparents still lived in Iowa so he would travel there often to see his
01:05:28
family uh now with the Johnny gosh case we have an incident where we believe that the suspect had a vehicle that had
01:05:36
Iowa plates so this guy Roger Mattis would have had Illinois license plate on his vehicle yeah if he was driving his
01:05:43
vehicle if he was driving his vehicle he could have potentially been driving his
01:05:46
parents uh like we saw that we saw that with the the Atlanta child killer uh he could have been driving Grandma's car um
01:05:54
um who knows the the interesting thing here too for me is Mark Allen went missing the Night Before Easter okay uh
01:06:05
Johnny gsh now he went missing on a Sunday morning right September 5th Sunday morning what happens the first
01:06:12
Monday of every September there's a national holiday so what I'm getting at is for two of these abductions right
01:06:19
it's most you know it you're more likely to be traveling to see your family when
01:06:24
there's a holiday you see what I'm getting at here you picking up what I'm putting down M uh so if he if he were in
01:06:29
the area I would be very concerned and he's somebody that I believe that they should talk to it's if you want to talk
01:06:35
to him it's pretty easy because he's being held in a in the penitentiary down in Texas because not too long ago he was
01:06:43
picked up for um he was not only did he have it in his possession but he was Distributing child pornography and when
01:06:51
they raided his home and his business they the the feds found more than 22,500 images on computers of child rape
01:07:04
and child pornography and this included four over 420 videos um so right but this is what makes you so silly of a
01:07:13
person what what okay this is why it makes you so silly no this is what made me late this morning no but I I was
01:07:21
going to be here about an hour earlier but I they don't know what time we recording I got busy busy tracing this
01:07:27
Roger Mattis all morning because we got a special Halloween episode for you this
01:07:32
week anyways this is why you're so silly is okay you start presenting this guy that could
01:07:39
possibly be the abductor of these three boys right or at least one or two of the
01:07:45
boys mhm and he is found Distributing child pornography right I get you and you and so why is he
01:07:55
Distributing that for funds he's probably making money off of it okay possibly or trading I think these I
01:08:02
think these guys do a lot of trading right but don't you think if he's in the game like that that it's possible that I
01:08:10
see what you're getting at he's yeah I'm crazy and I'm going to abduct them abduct them and I'm probably going to do
01:08:16
some shitty things to him but I'm going to sell them when I'm done look there's a bunch of sickos out there you know um
01:08:23
so that's what I'm saying I I I think I think there's more to this uh Paul Basi case or Paul Basi story um that I mean
01:08:32
it's super disturbing I mean to me just the simple they brand these kids and and so he says that that's
01:08:40
backed up we know that and as far as like human trafficking goes the thing that was really disturbing what he talks
01:08:48
about is oh they didn't they weren't interested in me anymore this is what Paul said mhm because I'm not cuz they
01:08:57
need new kids they want new kids that haven't been tortured yet that to me that's the most disturbing thing about
01:09:04
this whole case mhm now uh if you're done with that I'd like to bring up the another Sensational
01:09:11
idea go ahead okay so if you because of the Lawrence E King allegations in that whole ring that you know they they they
01:09:23
say it's just a hoax they say basically that story uh of these allegations started from two employers either of the
01:09:31
bank or of the young boys group that got fired that just decided to come up with
01:09:37
these claims when they came up with those claims then there was this investigation then this money laundering
01:09:43
and all this other stuff comes out they go to jail for that but you're stuck with these you know uh human trafficking
01:09:50
claims basically sex crime claims but there's a lot of connection with this group of people and it keeps going
01:09:59
up the chain keeps going up the chain all the way up to George Bush George Bush Senior correct George
01:10:06
Bush Senior yeah I I guess W is not technically a junior but just so we're not confused we're talking about the
01:10:13
older yeah older George Bush the one he was a one- termer yeah hate to be a one termer well the thing is is uh I don't
01:10:21
know how much validity there is to this story but if you typee in Johnny goshh and George Bush there's a picture of it
01:10:30
seems like George Bush is on like a campaign Trail or something but he's talking to a group of kids and I think
01:10:35
it's over his right shoulder there's a boy that looks similar to Johnny gosh more similar to me uh again when was
01:10:44
this photo taken I'm not really for sure uh it doesn't look like it doesn't look
01:10:50
like Johnny gsh has aged a bunch of years but it's it's interesting I don't know
01:10:56
what to make of it I don't think it's really him but uh it's something you if you're interested in the case Google it
01:11:03
and and check it out yourself I I'll tell you what Captain it this is a must Google all right I'm going to throw that
01:11:09
out there must Google this picture because you know I saw the picture of the three boys um on the mattress you
01:11:17
know that we discussed I saw the picture of the single boy by himself that that we said has remained unidentified M and
01:11:24
then I saw this picture at you're urging you you would ask me to to look this picture up and I saw this picture and
01:11:32
you know what I thought I was going to see I thought I was going to be let down again because when I saw the first
01:11:38
pictures that noren brought up uhuh the the kids didn't look none of them looked
01:11:42
like Johnny to me um and then you showed me this and I thought oh of course the captain's going to have something it's
01:11:48
going to be disappointing and I I Google it this is a must Google Captain recommendation
01:11:55
UHS more like Johny of pictures he he could pass Johny I had to look at it several times and I can't say for
01:12:03
certain that it's not Johnny it looks enough like him um and obviously this doesn't mean that George Bush is
01:12:10
connected in any way you know what I mean it's just you know it's just a weird thing if a kid went missing right
01:12:17
if a kid went missing and and and a week before he went missing he was in a picture with Mr T I mean we wouldn't be
01:12:23
saying crazy stuff about Mr T you know P the fool anyways what I'm saying is it doesn't mean that George Bush is
01:12:31
connected in any way it's just kind of this weird thing and maybe some of these like uh things that
01:12:39
become a little conspiracy start taking off this crazy life of their own again now now George Bush is part of the group
01:12:46
of uh that goes to the Bohemian Grove MH so I mean maybe there's some validity there I just think there's a lot more
01:12:54
validity to this this Paul Basi uh stories than uh maybe some are taken serious how about some more
01:13:02
sensationalism right yeah we have uh the story does not I mean this thing between
01:13:08
the the Franklin Scandal and between noren gosh and Johnny gosh and uh George Bush uh this thing just never stops
01:13:17
getting weirder um now we have people who have started to suspect that a man of that goes by the name of Jeff Ganon
01:13:26
did I get that name right Jeff Ganon is actually Johnny goshh yeah he's basically a um White House reporter yeah
01:13:35
so he is yeah he's some kind of White House reporter correspondent kind of dude um and I guess he was was he
01:13:43
discredited in January of or February of 2012 wasn't that he was discredited it was just the fact that it doesn't really
01:13:52
have any he doesn't have the credentials that one you would assume needs to have
01:13:58
to be a a White House reporter so he's basically like some guy just walks off the street with a pad and a and a and a
01:14:05
pencil and he's like I'm here to take the report yeah but this stuff happens all the time somebody knows somebody you
01:14:12
know and then you get a job but is I believe was it through credit cards or for some some way they were able to
01:14:19
trace this Jeff Ganon to some kind of call service to like a a male call service where you escort service yeah I
01:14:28
think he was an escort at some point yeah and um or he was paying for escorts he was involved he either he either
01:14:36
worked for one or he was in or using one um but that's where we get this whole Jeff Ganon is Johnny goshh um I believe
01:14:45
there was also a newspaper article written about Johnny goshh a long time ago uh that was written by reporter that
01:14:53
went by the name of Jeff gon not technically the same one but it's a weird coincidence uh in this story now
01:15:01
um but it's kind of like Beatles Clues you know you hear about beatles Clues I don't know what that is okay go for it
01:15:07
the Beatles you know who the Beatles are I've heard of them so there's a lot you
01:15:11
know it's like oh if you play this backwards it says this okay these Clues I got you Paul's dead Paul is dead right
01:15:18
and really a lot of these conspiracies just start because one happens and then we start looking for more and more clues
01:15:25
mhm that's why they call them Beatles Clues um don't Google that by the way because that will take up your entire
01:15:31
weekend if you Google Beatles Clues you will spend you will spend the entire weekend convinced that they wrote a song
01:15:37
telling you that Paul died in some kind of car accident and they've replaced him
01:15:40
with a guy that looks just like him which there was a car accident so is I mean there's some validity to the story
01:15:47
but uh but no no and I think that's the case in this John gch is is I think you know one weird thing happens that leads
01:15:56
to this other weird thing and you're really just putting a bunch of dots out there are you connecting them I'm not
01:16:02
really for sure I just think you're putting them out there the thing is though this Jeff
01:16:07
ganet it's not a uh I don't believe you know there's no way I don't think he's Johnny goshh um but I will say just like
01:16:16
I said with the the photograph with the George Bush um this guy is not he he he resembles Johnny somewhat
01:16:25
wouldn't you agree yeah yeah I mean you could when you do the age enhancement you would kind of see that uh that he
01:16:31
could potentially have grown up to look like this Jeff Ganon uh Jeff Ganon is a bald very bald man though right uh like
01:16:38
no hair at all I'm guessing yeah but but but I yeah that's normally what bald means but I'm joking I'm only joking
01:16:45
because of it could be shaved head though it could be but noren's description of the man that that uh came
01:16:51
to her doorsteps saying that he was Johnny was somebody that had long black hair which is very different from being
01:16:58
bald well and I also think if there was somewhat some validity to this story that wouldn't Norine be saying oh yeah
01:17:07
that's my that's my boy yeah you're exactly right I mean it in case after case time after time it seems like even
01:17:13
if there's a um a shred of hope she has gone with That's My Boy and and so here's this uh reporter and he doesn't
01:17:23
have these credentials and he's wrapped up in this escort thing and not only that like okay if I'm Jeff Ganon right
01:17:29
and I've and I'm actually Johnny gosh let's pretend for a minute and I've been abducted and I've been held as a slave
01:17:36
and I'm terrified for my life I'm afraid I can't communicate with my family I can't tell the police what has happened
01:17:43
but I'm going to end up in the White House taking not notes and and giving you know becoming a correspondent when
01:17:48
I'm not even credited to do so um that that seems like a another huge leap for me as well
01:17:56
well back to the story of of Johnny visiting norin the one issue I have with this is doesn't if he is still involved
01:18:06
with this group and now he's you know older man he would be like 30 something 40 some years old yeah he would be he
01:18:14
was born in 1969 but but when he visited her he was a man now yeah he was almost
01:18:20
30 so you're not you're not a kid anymore so that makes you were the victim and now you're the one
01:18:26
victimizing people that's what it that's what to me what she's implying and that's that's where I have that's a
01:18:35
thing where it's like she has to know she's implying that right and so that's an uncomfortable thing for a mom to say
01:18:43
so maybe that goes with one of the things which would make me want to believe her more this is just a crazy
01:18:51
case overall well and the another thing too is Captain and and we do have to wrap this up at some point because in
01:18:57
all honesty with how big this thing is and how big it goes and if we were to go fully into this Franklin Credit Union
01:19:03
Scandal and the Bohemian Grove Scandal if we went into all that into as much detail and the strange missing persons
01:19:11
and and deaths that followed all of those accusations we could take True Crime garage season 4 and it would be
01:19:18
all about the Johnny gosh case so well yeah why I posted on social media that you know I'm trying to get you to quit
01:19:24
your job uh so we can do more episodes per week so I was joking about a fundraiser but we do have a fundraiser
01:19:31
you can go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate banner and we have a
01:19:35
beer fundraiser that's right that's right if you want but we want you to go to True Crim garage.com and get on the
01:19:42
blog and tell us on the Johnny gosh blog and tell us what you think about this case what do you think happened to
01:19:48
Johnny do you like the Captain's theory that there's a underground child sex ring or do you like my theory where
01:19:54
there's one one M's not a theory it's a fact there's sex range it's still a theory it's still a theory
01:20:01
no my the theory is that I believe that Johnny's involved in it okay how do you want some recommended reading captain no
01:20:10
I don't want to read anymore yes you're going to read uh this week we are recommending the Franklin Scandal it's a
01:20:17
story of power Brokers child abuse and betrayal by Nick Bryant this is for those of you that want to find out more
01:20:24
about this case like we said this this is more into the area of the Franklin Credit Union of that scandal in the uh
01:20:31
potential child sex ring uh so if you want to learn more about that pick up the Franklin Scandal a story of power
01:20:38
Brokers child abuse and betrayal by Nick Bryant that's available by going to truecrime garage.com click on the
01:20:44
recommended page and use the Amazon Banner to make all of your fun purchases for True Crime or for the holiday season
01:20:51
yeah and you can get anything through the Amazon Banner so just go to True Crim garage.com click on the Amazon
01:20:58
banner I actually bought you'll never guess it nobody would be ever be able to guess what I bought at Amazon this week
01:21:05
red velcro why uh well for it's guitar stuff but but who would have thought I went to
01:21:13
buy some velcro and they had red I thought well that's better than black something different that is so you can
01:21:19
buy anything through there and for everything true crime garage go to true Prim garage.com and thank you beautiful
01:21:26
people for listening we'll see you in a couple days cuz we got a special holiday
01:21:30
episode happy Halloween yes join us for a special night of trick-or-treating uh here in the garage
01:21:37
and we hope hope to see you in a couple days right Captain yes sir and until then be good be kind and don't
01:21:51
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