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You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of
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Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. >> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick, and with me as always is a man who in just
00:01:33
four short years will finally have that two-year junior college degree. Here is >> [music]
00:01:40
>> the Captain. >> Your mom goes to college. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for
00:01:44
listening. Thanks [music] for telling a friend. Hand me one of those beautiful blue cans
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there, Captain, cuz today, in what is starting to feel like springtime here in the garage, we are sipping on a
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delightful beer called Easy Eddie by the easygoing men and women over at Big Grove Brewery in Iowa City. Easy Eddie
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is a double dry-hopped hazy IPA that is filled with juicy tropical flavors like pineapple and mango that are
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complemented by a round body and soft bitterness. Easy Eddie is also a two-time gold medal winner, once at the
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2024 Great American Beer Festival and then back in 2019 at the Open Beer Championship. ABV 6% garage grade four
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and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good garage friends. First up, we
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have a big shout-out and cheers to King of the Mat, Tony Cassioppi in Roscoe, Illinois. And a big we like to jib goes
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out to Matthew [music] from Pottsville, PA. Bring it in close cuz we have a cheers to Pete Letterbee [music]
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in Westchester, Ohio. And a big tall cans in the air goes out to Patty [music] in Little Rock, Arkansas.
00:03:12
>> And let's go out of bounds here. We're going the distance. We have a cheers to
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Andrea from Malmo, Sweden. And last but certainly not least, we have Kerstin all
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the way over in Germany. Everyone we just mentioned, they went to truecrimegarage.com,
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helped us out with this week's beer fund, and for that, we thank you. >> Yeah, p w r u n beer run. For everything
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true crime, check out truecrimegarage.com. And while you're there, sign up on the mailing list. If
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you're on the mailing list, then you got a promo code last week and you saved some cash in the merch store. So, make
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sure you sign up on the mailing list. And Colonel, that's enough of the [music] bizness.
00:03:51
>> I am on the mailing list. All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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I first became aware of this case just shy of 3 years ago at CrimeCon in Orlando, Florida.
00:04:10
Just days prior to the weekend event, we released two episodes about a very eerily similar true crime story.
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In September of 2023, True Crime Garage featured an incredibly frightening story
00:04:24
about a very successful realtor in Pennsylvania named Charlotte Fimiano. Charlotte, responding to a showing, left
00:04:33
her office to meet a potential buyer at a home that sat vacant and silent at the
00:04:39
dead end of Chelsea Lane. Charlotte was violently murdered inside that home. You can do a full review of that case.
00:04:49
That true crime story is episodes 698 and 699 on your garage radio dial. In fact, that is one of the most
00:04:59
frustrating cases that I have reviewed. At CrimeCon, a wonderful young lady about my age approached me.
00:05:07
Having heard our Charlotte Fimiano episodes, she told me about another successful realtor killed on the job.
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That victim was her friend. She told me about her friend, Ashley Oakland. She told me about the murder that took
00:05:21
place in a townhouse. And that story stuck with me all of this time. Today, we are taking a good, hard look
00:05:31
at that true crime [music] story. This is True Crime Garage, and this is the homicide case of Ashley Oakland.
00:05:44
>> [music] [music] >> I recently [music] reviewed an old online article on A&E's True Crime
00:06:06
website that focused on why safety is a real concern for real [music] estate agents. The premise was
00:06:15
unsettling in its simplicity. Real estate agents routinely meet strangers, often alone,
00:06:23
in empty or unfamiliar properties. And professionalism requires warmth and trust. The
00:06:30
environment can look normal right up until it isn't. To anchor this concern in something measurable, the topic and
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what was discussed in this article turned to the National Association of Realtors.
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A statistic that 2% of residential real estate agents reported being victims of a crime
00:06:54
while on the job. This is from 2022. A figure that framed as roughly 30,000 agents of the 1 and 1/2 million agents
00:07:05
reported that they were victims of a robbery, physical attack, or a sexual assault.
00:07:13
Then came the harder thought in this article. Those are only the incidents that have
00:07:20
been reported. A second statistic widened the frame here. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that 23 real
00:07:29
estate professionals died from workplace violence in the year of 2022. This article, while it's talking about
00:07:39
how to stay safe, is pointing out these frightening statistics as a warning. And what started off in
00:07:47
this article feeling like a warning turned toward two cases that the article highlighted. First, Ashley Oakland
00:07:58
in Iowa. And also Beverly Carter in Arkansas. Their stories were different method,
00:08:05
different motive, and separated by years, but they were linked by the same occupational vulnerability. Being alone
00:08:13
with someone who has easy access to your time, your attention, and your location.
00:08:20
Speaking of location, Captain, let's go to West Des Moines, Iowa. This true crime story hits hard with a
00:08:29
particular kind of dread because it didn't take place in a dark alley or at night.
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It unfolded in the kind of setting that many people instinctively categorize as safe.
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On April 8th, 2011, [clears throat] Ashley Marie Oakland, then aged 27, she was working an open house in West Des
00:08:53
Moines. The property was a model townhome in the Stone Creek Villas subdivision, an area that's
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described as quiet, newer, and upscale. The address is 558 Stone Creek Court. This is near 84th Street and EP True
00:09:14
Parkway. The development was associated with builders Rutland Homes or Rutland Homes, and described as roughly 70 units
00:09:27
that are there. And they're about a year old at this time in our timeline. It's the kind of assignment that looks
00:09:35
routine on the calendar, and that's part of what made this story so difficult to process. Nothing about
00:09:42
the location or the time of day hints at what is coming. >> Well, like you said, it's upscale. And
00:09:50
these are townhomes, but if you look at the picture of these townhomes, these are
00:09:54
these are large homes that are just >> that just happened to be connected. >> They look very big. Ashley Oakland was a
00:10:02
person rooted in Iowa. She was born in 1983 in Ames, Iowa. She grew up in Huxley,
00:10:10
Iowa alongside her sister and brother. Her childhood was described through ordinary tangible details. She was very
00:10:17
involved in sports, dance, 4-H, and she played the piano. These are the kind of things that families remember because
00:10:25
they can still picture them to this day. Ashley graduated from Ballard High School in 2002. After 2 years at the
00:10:33
University of Northern Iowa, she transferred to Iowa State University and then graduated in 2006 with a degree in
00:10:42
exercise science. Now, she initially considered a path in physical therapy, but by 2007 she entered real estate.
00:10:53
Her career was moving quickly. She was good at this. She was successful. She worked with JDR Group and Century 21 and
00:11:02
then joined Iowa Realty in 2010. People around her describe her as always moving,
00:11:11
someone who loved her friends and family intensely, someone who tried to make others feel seen. Her life in West Des
00:11:19
Moines included her significant other, his name is Eric Grubb, and their puppy that they shared together. Dog's name
00:11:27
Indy. >> Well, like you said, she's 27 years old. She's starting her career in real
00:11:32
estate, but also she's a very attractive young woman, which does help when you're in sales. She's
00:11:42
also deeply involved in the community here. She's involved in charities, different organizations. She was a big
00:11:48
sister and a supporting young professionals member. She traveled, she exercised, she
00:11:56
was known for loving to plan events and gatherings. The descriptions about Ashley, Captain, are consistent
00:12:06
across the board. Ashley was the kind of person who made other people feel included. To friends and family, she is
00:12:14
and always will be Ash. This is the story of an open house that turned into a crime scene. On April 8th,
00:12:23
2011, Ashley was hosting the open house at the model townhome at 558 Stone Creek Court.
00:12:33
Now, shortly before 2:00 p.m., something inside the townhome broke the shape of a
00:12:38
normal afternoon. The person who first realized that this was not a routine day or wasn't going to
00:12:47
be a routine day was a woman named Wanda Fowler. So, she's an employee of this Rottlund
00:12:56
Homes. And she says that she heard a commotion and then went to figure out what was going on. She goes into the
00:13:04
model unit where she heard this noise to see what was up. Inside, she says that she found Ashley unconscious and
00:13:14
bleeding on the floor. Wanda calls 911 immediately. Paramedics rush to the scene.
00:13:23
Then they rush Ashley to Iowa Methodist Medical Center in Des Moines and despite the emergency response,
00:13:31
sadly, it was too late. Ashley had passed. Yeah, and what they're going to figure out is that she's been shot
00:13:38
multiple times. That's right. Medical experts determine she'd been shot twice, once in the head and once in the chest.
00:13:46
What investigators confronted next made this case even more disturbing. Police described the crime scene as
00:13:56
baffling. They say, "We have no signs of a struggle. They say we have no evidence
00:14:02
of a theft, no indication of sexual assault, and of course, this all pointing to no clear motive that can be
00:14:11
seen by detectives." Right, and it's an open house, so there's no sign of a break-in. But what makes this
00:14:19
fascinating to me is it it's an open house, so anybody could enter at any time. And if you've ever gone to a open
00:14:28
house, you walk in and there might be people there, there might be a couple people there, there might be a lot of
00:14:34
people there. So, the fact that for a time period there was only two people there, Ashley,
00:14:40
our victim, and whoever shot her. Yeah, the person or persons responsible for her murder. And I'm glad that you
00:14:48
addressed that there, Captain, because that was a question that I have seen time and time again on message boards
00:14:54
regarding this case. Was the door unlocked? And everyone and that responds to that, folks that work
00:15:03
in the industry will tell you when it's an open house, the door 99% of the time is unlocked and you are
00:15:12
just waiting and welcoming people in to come and explore, come and look around, uh meet you, do a little meet and greet,
00:15:21
and hopefully you can give this them some good information and maybe they're interested in that property or in this
00:15:26
case you have multiple properties, multiple houses, homes that could be for sale. Yeah, and sometimes at these open
00:15:35
houses there's more than one real estate agent. So, it could be a real estate agent that's looking for a property that
00:15:42
they might want to show to one of their clients to purchase, or sometimes these events for these townhouses or
00:15:49
condos, there might be multiple agents that are there to help possible clients look through the property.
00:15:57
>> And what we don't have here, Captain, is information regarding the traffic of
00:16:02
that day, right? An open house you typically see people coming and going, sometimes it's couples, sometimes it's
00:16:07
families, sometimes it's individuals. I don't have any report of if they were busy that day, if it was very quiet, but
00:16:16
what we do know it is as you have stated. At the time of the murder it appears that the only two people inside
00:16:22
this home is Ashley and her killer. So, what do we have? We have a young agent killed at work inside a model home in
00:16:34
broad daylight. And the crime scene, at least in the details that are publicly stated, did
00:16:41
not explain why she was killed. The public statement we get is authorities said there is no reason to believe
00:16:49
the shooting was anything other than an isolated incident. We hear that so many times in these
00:16:55
cases. I don't know what they are basing that off of. They did not tell us how they arrived at that conclusion.
00:17:04
Sometimes, we've said this in the garage a dozen times. A lot of times we suspect
00:17:10
that that is just a sort of protocol, a statement that they give it throw out there if they don't
00:17:17
see any obvious reasons to be concerned for the public or the community. They throw this out there to make sure that
00:17:25
there's not any widespread panic. Yeah, and if I'm an investigator on this case, I'm going
00:17:31
to look at it in three different ways. Who is connected to Ashley? Is there anybody in her life? Is there
00:17:39
ex-boyfriend? Is there a not current relationship? Is there a family member? There's somebody that has something
00:17:47
against Ashley. Then my next step is to go, "Well, it's possible that it's just a random attack that was orchestrated
00:17:56
through this open house." But then I think you could also go, "Well, what about this property? This model home.
00:18:04
Who has been showing this? Who who has done open houses? Has it just been one real estate company? Has it been
00:18:11
multiple real estate companies? What's Ashley's tie to this property into this company?"
00:18:18
>> The shock hit her workplace immediately. In the wake of the murder, her colleagues made a rare decision.
00:18:25
They asked agents to shut down operations and cancel weekend open houses. It's grief, it's fear, and it's caution all
00:18:38
wrapped into one big ball here of confusion. So, you have an entire slice of an industry stopping to acknowledge
00:18:49
something nobody wanted to believe could happen, a murder of one of their colleagues. Now, I I think it's partly
00:18:58
that, you know, that's what the report kind of always was here, but I can't imagine any
00:19:07
agent willing to show a property by themselves or have any enthusiasm to show a property or sit at an open
00:19:17
house that weekend when we don't know what the hell's going on. We don't know why this happened at all. Yeah, cuz we
00:19:24
don't know if Ashley was targeted or was it Ashley's company that was targeted, or was it
00:19:31
the townhouse company that was targeted? >> Services for Ashley were held shortly
00:19:35
after her passing. I have reports of a service in Huxley, Iowa and in West Des Moines. More than 1,600 people attended
00:19:45
the celebration of life ceremony. From those ceremonies, Reverend Mike Householder told mourners during the
00:19:52
service, quote, "What happened to Ashley Oakland is evil. It was evil and there's
00:19:57
no other way to say it. There's nothing righteous about it. There's no moral in it. It was evil." End quote.
00:20:08
During April, the same month, 2011, the investigation drew an immediate surge of
00:20:14
information. More than 340 tips came in. Yet no arrests were made. As attention intensified, so did
00:20:25
reward money for information. Police announced a reward fund that reached $67,000
00:20:33
that month through Polk County Crime Stoppers. And at the time, it was described as the largest reward Polk
00:20:41
County Crime Stoppers had ever created. Lieutenant Jim Barrett of the West Des Moines Police Department told KCCI
00:20:52
news that investigators moved quickly enough to execute at least one early search warrant in the case. That
00:20:59
warrant, however, was sealed by a Dallas County judge, meaning the public could not see where the police searched or
00:21:09
what they were looking for. Yeah, and this is going to be a a massive investigation. Hundreds of interviews,
00:21:15
hundreds of leads. I mean, you got to interview her friends, family, her co-workers.
00:21:23
All all of her current clients and possibly even her recent past clients. By late
00:21:30
April 2011, national exposure increased regarding the case. This is when CBS News featured the case through its 48
00:21:39
Hours related crime website. That coverage triggered additional tips and anonymous calls tracked by report
00:21:48
numbers so callers could remain unidentified. So when you called in, you got a random number.
00:21:55
That way if you needed to call back, you could identify yourself by that number and then they could connect your
00:22:02
additional information or call to your previous submitted information. Well, it's not clear to me how many of these
00:22:10
units were built and how many of these units were sold. So the chances of there being solid eyewitnesses, I think would
00:22:18
be difficult. So it There were 70 units in this development. And from my understanding, you're right. We don't
00:22:27
have a clear number as to how many sat vacant or empty. And they're only a year old, roughly,
00:22:35
per reports. My guess is I mean, it could be 60% capacity. I We have no idea. But yeah, roughly about 70
00:22:45
units. I think too, what what hinders this investigation, you're pointing to you know, where's our eyewitnesses?
00:22:54
Where's our earwitnesses? Especially in an area close-knit. Right? We're close quarters. Well, and we have
00:23:00
gunshots, so that's something you would hear. Well, and we know at least one person did. She heard some kind of
00:23:06
commotion and went running to figure out what was going on, finds our victim on the floor. I think what hinders this
00:23:14
investigation and limits our and really reduces our numbers on earwitnesses, eyewitnesses, is
00:23:22
it's 2:00 p.m. on a Friday, a workday. You know, most people are are not hanging out in this neighborhood at that
00:23:32
time, sadly, or we probably would have had a lot more information. Now, regarding these anonymous calls and tips
00:23:40
and leads that the police are getting, we have a tip stream and it's really just a thread that kind of becomes
00:23:49
familiar and echoed. Witnesses mentioned a black SUV, possibly a Cadillac Escalade, seen near
00:23:59
the model home roughly at the time of the murder. Now, others described a man only very
00:24:06
vaguely. Repeatedly referring to this man as the scruffy man. I believe the reports were a scruffy man that was on
00:24:16
the younger side. So this intrigues me. This man is often described as being about Ashley's age. So we're looking at
00:24:25
mid to late 20s. Callers seem to circle in and around two or three names again and again. This doesn't produce
00:24:38
an arrest and from what I could find, Captain, those names we don't we don't know what those names were. However,
00:24:44
it's mentioned that there were names brought to them via these tips. In the surrounding community, the uncertainty
00:24:52
spread beyond the specifics of the case. In late April, shortly after the murder,
00:25:00
a tech security professional, his name Bill Corwin, reported a 30% increase in business
00:25:09
tying it to the destabilization effect of an unknown threat. He tells KCCI news, quote, "Anytime
00:25:19
something is unknown, it challenges people's [music] security." >> [music] [music]
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00:27:03
I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster
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care at adoptuskids.org. You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of
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Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. >> [music] [music] >> All right, we are back. Talk hands in
00:27:35
the air. Cheers to you, Colonel. >> [music] >> Raise them high. Say it loud. Cheers to you, Captain. Cheers to people
00:27:44
in the back. Well, it makes you wonder if these companies should be either working together as a team.
00:27:51
And so that they're showing up on location with not just one individual. And then it also makes you wonder if
00:27:59
that's not the case, then maybe these companies should have security that goes with them, right? For protection.
00:28:07
But come on, this is a new build. It wouldn't be that hard to install some security cameras. Because you know it's
00:28:15
the model house. You know that this is going to have multiple showings and multiple open houses.
00:28:21
>> Yes. And another unsettling event in our timeline here is Wanda Fowler. So this is April 23rd. Wanda Fowler, the
00:28:32
employee who found Ashley, left a note for her mother suggesting that she may have been contemplating
00:28:40
suicide. Her mother files a missing person's report with the police and luckily the
00:28:46
police were able to locate Wanda before any harm was done. The information provided did not
00:28:55
establish, though, a connection to Ashley's murder. But of course, the timing certainly
00:29:02
is very hard to ignore. Look, she's going to be a suspect because she's the one that finds Ashley, right? Mhm. But
00:29:10
it could be finding her and and [clears throat] seeing this victim and trying to get her
00:29:15
help. This This could be a traumatic event if you're struggling with mental health. In May, the following month,
00:29:22
Ashley's family continued to speak out looking for justice for their daughter and sister.
00:29:28
Ashley's mother, her name is Deb Cochran, spoke publicly to KCCI. Her words didn't claim certainty, but
00:29:37
they carried the logic of a family trying to make sense of what police could not yet explain. She said she
00:29:45
believed Ashley may have known the person who killed her because there had been no struggle. She says in her mind
00:29:53
she could picture a familiar human moment. Ashley looking up, smiling, treating someone as ordinary and safe
00:30:03
until the moment turned. She said that she thinks Ashley simply looked up to greet whoever it was and then
00:30:13
the trigger was pulled and then that was it. It was very quick in her mind is what she says. And
00:30:20
the family also shared a detail. Look, we're not getting any details from detectives
00:30:27
in this case. So this was interesting to find. The family shared this detail that Ashley
00:30:34
had actually sent a text message to a friend less than 5 minutes before it's believed that she was shot. And while
00:30:43
they did not tell us exactly the wording of that text message or if it was responded to, what they did say is they
00:30:50
reviewed the information and the message was not a plea for help. So based off of
00:30:56
that, what we have to go on here, Captain, is that 5 minutes before the trigger was pulled, it appears
00:31:04
everything was normal. Or at least it appeared that way to Ashley at the time. Her brother Josh
00:31:11
described Ashley as trusting and relentlessly positive, someone who would not naturally assume that a person
00:31:19
stepping into an open house might be there for anything other than business. Now, by some point in May of 2011,
00:31:27
police disclosed the investigation had expanded. Over 500 tips had come in and investigators had requested, obtained,
00:31:37
and executed four search warrants. Again, all of these sealed from the public. >> Difficult too when there's that many
00:31:47
interviews and leads because if I'm the head of this investigation, I want those tips and those interviews
00:31:57
done by the same individuals because [clears throat] if they're doing all the interviews, they're going to be able to
00:32:03
pick up on little nuances, they're going to know the timeline better than anybody.
00:32:09
But that's that's a lot of work. I mean, think about that. If somebody said to you, "Hey, you have 500
00:32:16
interviews." You go, "Okay, one a day, I'll I'll get done in about a year and a half."
00:32:23
>> In June, so this is This is another weird portion of the story that I mean, it just simply cannot be
00:32:31
ignored. And who knows what the connection, if any, but it doesn't sound like there there is. We have June 8th,
00:32:39
2011, Joseph Kurth. So this man named Joseph Kurth committed suicide. Joseph had been
00:32:46
interviewed by police regarding Ashley's homicide. Keep in mind that by this point dozens,
00:32:54
likely maybe even a couple hundred of people, couple hundred people had been interviewed in some form or fashion.
00:33:03
Joseph's sister goes on the record. She says that Joseph had been cleared for the crime.
00:33:10
But police declined to say if he was involved or not. He was found dead in his black
00:33:17
Oldsmobile Bravada, which is a a car, not an SUV. So this does not match witnesses seeing that SUV, possibly a
00:33:27
Escalade, around the crime scene. Is this guy scruffy guy? Well, that's what's confusing here cuz
00:33:35
his sister says he that unfortunately Joseph killed himself due to financial problems, ongoing
00:33:43
long-term financial problems. Right. And then in in regard to what you're asking,
00:33:49
your question, I did find one report stating that by this time, this marker on our timeline,
00:33:55
that around June of 2011, police did say they believed that they had located the
00:34:02
scruffy man referenced in the tips. And after speaking with him, they believed he had no involvement in the
00:34:10
murder, thus the investigation still had no suspect. But again, to be clear, I only have one report of
00:34:19
them stating that scruffy man had nothing to do with the crime. The And and nobody ever
00:34:26
states whether he, Joseph, is the scruffy man or not. He would be older than the description that was provided.
00:34:35
He was older than than Ashley. He [snorts] did have some involvement with those companies that we've previously
00:34:44
mentioned. Right. So that makes it interesting. It's bizarre that there's a lot of this activity going on
00:34:53
surrounding this ongoing investigation, which is still very in its very early stages, right? It's only June. It's 2
00:35:02
months after she was killed. >> Well, and this is tough too because I mean, there's a lot of triggers for
00:35:07
mental health, but I would think that in the real estate game, if you're whether you're a builder or you're an
00:35:16
agent, to me it seems like a occupation that's kind of feast or famine. And so if you're not selling
00:35:25
properties, if you're not listing properties, if you're not if you don't have clients buying homes, where's the
00:35:31
money coming from, right? So you could you could work a lot with little pay, so that would be triggering as far as
00:35:37
mental health goes. >> Well, and and so we can move on from this Joseph Kurth, the the thing about
00:35:44
him that makes him really stand out in the timeline is is the statements, right? Nothing what
00:35:51
he said in particular, but it's more the statements of his sister. The way she words it makes it sound like he was at
00:35:59
one point a suspect and then cleared. Right. >> But then we have police saying a very
00:36:04
different statement of he was not a suspect and we've not cleared anybody. We and we didn't clear him. So um very
00:36:12
conflicting statements about a person who is now deceased very early on in this investigation. Let's go to
00:36:20
September of the same year where we have Lieutenant Jim Barrett. He told KCCI that investigators had accumulated over
00:36:28
600 leads, spoken to more than 400 people, received 200 Crime Stopper tips. Yet despite the interviews,
00:36:38
lead after lead, tip after tip, all without a single public turning point that explained why
00:36:45
Ashley had been killed at all. This very quickly is starting to feel like it's going to be a long pursuit
00:36:51
through a very dense fog. And I know that all departments are not always forthcoming with information to the
00:36:58
family, but think about how sucky that would be. Mhm. Your friend, your family member is
00:37:06
murdered. There seems to be no motive. It's not like she's murdered in her house. There
00:37:12
we have no sign of a break-in because it's open house, we have no sign of robbery.
00:37:18
We So we have no clue who did [clears throat] this, why they did this. But then if the police department is
00:37:25
sharing any information with the family, they're probably going, "Hey, we're interviewing a lot of people. We got a
00:37:31
ton of tips coming in." That that's going to give you hope, right? You're going, "Well,
00:37:37
it's not like they have nothing. They have a lot of stuff coming in." But all that stuff coming in just seems
00:37:44
to pile up to nothing. Right. And back to what you had said earlier, they they have a lot of people to talk to and
00:37:51
obviously by those numbers and reports that given to us by the lieutenant, they they were actively doing that. They had
00:37:58
spoke to more than 400 people. Let's go to the following year where the reward doubles to $150,000
00:38:05
for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the murder of Ashley Oakland.
00:38:10
Meanwhile, that physical space, the town home where Ashley died, remained part of
00:38:16
the story. The town home where she was killed was still for sale. And for the neighbors, for the folks
00:38:23
that lived there, it became a sad fixed reminder. It's a landmark of unease. It's also a landmark to to scare the
00:38:32
folks that live there. Who did this and why haven't they been caught and and could could my family or myself be in
00:38:40
danger here? Absolutely. So what we see is this stretch of time didn't solve the case, but it did
00:38:49
it did continue to carry the torch of how people thought of Ashley and it did shape how the
00:38:57
larger public carried Ashley's name. So in late January of 2014, the Iowa Association of Realtors donated $100,000
00:39:09
to the Ashley Oakland Star Playground Project. So this is a campaign tied to Variety,
00:39:17
the Children's Charity of Iowa. The playground was planned for Ewing Park in Des Moines and was described as
00:39:27
the first in the metro area intended to provide play opportunities for children with special needs. The fundraising goal
00:39:37
was $500,000 and the groundbreaking celebration was May of that year, held at the park, of
00:39:46
course. This playground, I'm happy to report, still exists. Many people are getting a
00:39:51
lot of enjoyment out of it still to this very day. If you want to learn more about the project, if you wish to
00:39:58
donate, there is a website, ashleyoaklandstarplayground.com. Check that out. In September of 2014,
00:40:08
another realtor is targeted in Iowa police were paying attention. So now, Captain, we go to Scott,
00:40:16
Arkansas. Real estate agent Beverly Carter disappeared while showing a home to a prospective male client in a rural
00:40:25
isolated area outside of Little Rock. 49-year-old Beverly Carter, a Little Rock, Arkansas realtor, was
00:40:34
killed after setting up an appointment to show an empty home. Beverly Carter was reported missing September 25th,
00:40:42
2014, to the Pulaski County Sheriff's Office, which later said that her body was found
00:40:49
on Tuesday, September 30th, in a shallow grave. Authorities in Arkansas arrested parolee
00:40:58
Aaron Michael Lewis, age 33, of Jacksonville, Arkansas, and charged him with capital murder in connection with
00:41:05
the case. Police accused Aaron Lewis of setting up an appointment with Beverly Carter to view a vacant house in
00:41:15
a rural area near Little Rock, and then killing her, and burying her body on the
00:41:21
grounds of a concrete company where he had once worked. Authorities not only arrested Lewis, but also his
00:41:31
estranged wife, Crystal Lowery. Investigators said they arranged a fake showing to kidnap Beverly Carter for
00:41:39
ransom. Then they killed her when the plan went down the tubes. Lewis received two life terms, and
00:41:48
Lowery received 30 years in prison. A quote attributed to Lewis was repeated because it distilled the
00:41:58
predatory logic in plain language. He said he targeted Beverly Carter because she was, quote, a woman that
00:42:08
worked alone, and a rich broker. I'll sum that up. Easy target. Yeah, and if you're investigating
00:42:18
Ashley's case, then you have to go, okay, well, maybe there's not one perpetrator here. Maybe there's multiple
00:42:25
perpetrators, and and maybe it's not just a random killing. Maybe it was an attempted kidnap.
00:42:31
And so, does that make sense with any of the leads that we've got so far? West Des Moines police contacted Arkansas
00:42:38
authorities to see if there was any possibility at all of a connection between Beverly Carter's murder and
00:42:44
Ashley Oakland's unsolved killing. Sergeant Ken O'Brien, a spokesman for West Des Moines police, said that police
00:42:52
wanted to know, obviously, where Lewis was in April of 2011 when Ashley Oakland was killed.
00:42:59
The good sergeant described the outreach as part of a continuing effort to exhaust every
00:43:06
plausible angle. The goal, of course, was not to claim a link. It was to make sure no link was being
00:43:14
missed, and we can report that no connection was found. In April of 2019, West Des Moines
00:43:22
police introduced a new tool in hopes of generating fresh leads in this case, a website called Answers for Ashley.
00:43:32
Uh by that point, investigators had followed up on more than 900 leads. The goal was simple to describe and brutally
00:43:38
difficult to achieve. Find the one piece of information where someone was, what someone saw,
00:43:45
what someone heard, what someone kept quiet, that could finally pull the case out of limbo and
00:43:52
revive this investigation. In 2024, the state of Iowa launched a statewide resource at the Iowa Cold Case Unit.
00:44:03
Uh this is something that is happening in many states. States that have the funding, at least, are forming these
00:44:09
cold case units. Some were years ago, some more recent. In Iowa, in this case, just 2024.
00:44:18
Sounds like something a a beer company would use to promote something, the cold case
00:44:25
package. That's right. A 24-pack cold case unit. Ashley's brother, Josh, attended the announcement of this the
00:44:35
genesis of this Iowa Cold Case Unit. And it he's just one member that's alongside other families
00:44:42
that are hoping and praying for answers in their loved ones' unsolved cases. He said
00:44:48
one of the unit's investigators was now working was dedicated to Ashley's case, describing the investigator as, quote,
00:44:56
fired up to solve it. Josh pointed to another milestone referenced in KCCI's coverage of
00:45:05
the cold case unit, the unit's first arrest. So this is a separate case altogether,
00:45:12
but this case involved a murder charge filed 36 years after Barbara Lenz, I'll spell that, L E N Z, went missing.
00:45:22
36 years later. So for families waiting for years for movement, this matters big
00:45:29
time. Not as comfort, but as proof that stalled cases can change when resources and focus change. Yeah, and it's proof
00:45:39
that the cold case unit is having an effect. Absolutely. Absolutely. We love ourselves a good cold case squad, and
00:45:47
here in Iowa, it's obviously working. That was 2024 there, Captain. Let's bring things up to speed, up to
00:45:56
current day. We just said that the cold case squad, the cold case unit there in Iowa is working. Well, apparently so, my
00:46:04
friend, because West Des Moines police detectives arrested a woman named Kristin Elizabeth
00:46:11
Ramsey, age 53, on March 17th, 2026. Uh we're talking this is just like 10 days ago. Yeah, first of all, I need to
00:46:23
get like a button that I push for the Unsolved Mysteries update. Oh, I love that music plays.
00:46:31
Oh, it's every time it happen, you're like, oh [ __ ] Part of that one of my favorite things that when you would hear
00:46:37
that music, you know, cuz you don't know that there's going to be an update. And
00:46:40
then that music pops up. My favorite is when we have a composite sketch of the of the suspect. Right away, when I hear
00:46:48
the music, I'm I'm going I want to see if it looks like the sketch. I want to see if the guy looks like the sketch.
00:46:54
Right. >> So all this time, and finally we get an arrest in the case. Now, look, our
00:47:00
listeners are very smart. They've been in the garage with us for a long time, so they know we how we do our business.
00:47:07
As you heard, garage friends, there was not a whole lot of details or information regarding evidence, or as
00:47:15
pointed out, the police never clearly stated a motive, and from what we could see, or at least what was released
00:47:21
publicly, there's there's no way for us to come up with a great motive, either. So, we don't know what they were working
00:47:27
with, how much they were holding back. I'm actually suspicious that they weren't holding back much. I'm thinking
00:47:33
there might not have been a whole lot of much to work with at the the crime scene.
00:47:38
And we get this arrest of Kristin Elizabeth Ramsey, age 53, arrested this month, this year.
00:47:48
She's arrested without incident. The announcement, the formal announcement, anyway, followed came the following day.
00:47:55
This arrest came after Dallas County a Dallas County grand jury returned a true bill indictment against Kristin Ramsey.
00:48:04
She was arrested and charged with first-degree murder, the first-degree murder of Ashley Oakland, and she's
00:48:11
currently being held in the Dallas County Jail on a $2 million to further the mystery, police and
00:48:22
prosecutors currently will not discuss what led to Ramsey's arrest, but we should note that Kristin Ramsey, at the
00:48:31
time, worked for that Rutland Homes, the company that built the model home where
00:48:38
Ashley Oakland was killed. It's possible that the real estate company had some kind of deal with the developers. That
00:48:47
is that is a common practice. Absolutely. That that that There's I believe that's absolutely the
00:48:56
situation without them putting it to print. Um that is a very, as you said, common
00:49:01
situation, and would be in and if we want to further get into the weeds about that
00:49:08
time period and the industry, that would make complete and total sense. We have hundreds and hundreds of cases that
00:49:16
people suggest to us through the website, through social media. We put those all on a list, and then we
00:49:23
start putting those on the calendar. When we put this case on the calendar, it was a cold case.
00:49:29
It it was standing still. By the time we go to hit record, we have somebody arrested. Now, there could be more than
00:49:37
one individual that's involved, but as of right now, it's just this Rams Ramsey lady. But also, it
00:49:45
seems like there was some rumors, some community rumors. This is not confirmed, but there was some rumors that then led
00:49:53
to this investigation. All the other stuff law enforcement is keeping private, and which is obviously just
00:50:01
within that community because it's it's a local legend, right? It becomes this local legend, it's a local mystery, and
00:50:09
with law enforcement keeping all this information back because they still have to build a case to go to trial and try
00:50:17
to get a conviction. So, it's hard to even say that this case is closed or solved yet because we don't
00:50:25
have a conviction. All we have at this moment is charges. We have an arrest, we have somebody sitting in a jail cell,
00:50:31
and as you're absolutely right, it's not this it's not a a crime or or a murder that's
00:50:37
been adjudicated at all. Now, as you heard in the trailer today, this was a case that I first learned about at
00:50:44
CrimeCon Orlando, and then it it it stuck with me, it haunted me, and eventually it made its way to our crime
00:50:52
calendar. And it was weird that this it's not uncommon for us to cover a case and then months later or years later
00:51:00
it's solved. We we we rally around that, and we love that. That's like one of our favorite parts of
00:51:06
doing this show. We get to celebrate a little bit Heck, yeah. >> when those cases are closed out or an
00:51:13
arrest is finally made, or somebody is eventually found or located. The this was a the weird scenario of while
00:51:22
we were inching our way toward and had already started some of the collection of information,
00:51:29
it an a an arrest was announced. Now, I'll get into some speculation here first before we get into what we do
00:51:37
know, okay? So, Well, just quickly, there is a roughly a 10-year age gap between this now suspected killer
00:51:46
and our victim Ashley. Yeah, she would have been about 12 years older than Ashley. My speculation is this. Again,
00:51:54
I'm worried that they don't There cases where it's very obvious to us that they're holding a lot back. And
00:52:01
there's cases sometimes where they say that they're holding a lot back, and whether they are or not is neither here
00:52:07
nor there. Sometimes it that is the case, and sometimes it is not. It's just a stance, a posturing that they that law
00:52:12
enforcement will do. And for good reason. Often times there's strategy involved in that stance. This
00:52:19
is a case where I worry that you know, they've never said that we're holding a lot back here.
00:52:24
This is a case where I just worry that there's not a lot of evidence. I worry that
00:52:30
how much do they have on this suspect? And like you said, I you you put it in the best terms,
00:52:37
the most appropriate terms possible here in this scenario. Well, some would say I'm getting better at my
00:52:43
job. >> a case is what you said, and that is absolutely correct. Now, what So, until they build that case,
00:52:53
until we learn more, I don't feel so confident about a conviction here. Now, I say that to circle the wagons back to
00:53:03
the arrest. I feel very confident about the arrest. Why? It's been almost 15 years. There's not a
00:53:11
rush. There's not a whole hell of a lot of pressure to to make a a flimsy arrest here. And
00:53:20
but what do we know? We know that they didn't get an arrest warrant from a judge. We got a grand jury true bill
00:53:29
indictment. Sorry, public. I'm a member of the public, so I feel like I can say this.
00:53:35
We're not as smart as the judges, okay? So, a grand jury can get it wrong. Judges can get it wrong, too.
00:53:42
But the grand jury said indict. They went, they got her, they charged her with first-degree murder.
00:53:49
She's being held on $2 million cash only bond. What we do know is this. KCCI Cruise, the news crew,
00:53:58
they were the only, as they reported anyway, the only camera present at Kristen Ramsey's registered home in
00:54:07
Woodward, Iowa. So, there the news crew observed the West Des Moines canine units, crime scene investigators, and
00:54:17
officers conducting a search of the property using metal detectors. Looking for the gun, right? They're looking very
00:54:24
likely looking for that gun. Now, Kristen Ramsey, her maiden name is Palmer or Pommer, p o
00:54:33
m m e r. She got married in 1995 to Toby Ramsey, who is the owner of a local concrete and snow removal business
00:54:43
according to his LinkedIn page. Toby Ramsey also sits on the board of adjustments and appeals in Woodward,
00:54:51
which is a city about 30 miles northwestish of Des Moines. Kristen Ramsey worked in Des
00:54:58
Moines real estate in the industry for almost 30 years according to her LinkedIn profile. It says that in the
00:55:06
late '90s she joined the Iowa division of the Rottlund Company, a major builder of
00:55:14
town homes and condos at the time. And remember, Ashley Oakland was killed inside a Rottlund town home that was on
00:55:23
the market. At the time of Ashley Oakland's death, Kristen Ramsey was a Rottlund sales [snorts] manager. After
00:55:33
working for that company for years, and then because of the housing market crash
00:55:38
downturn. Oh, so some of this in 2011 is fallout from that housing market crash.
00:55:44
So, the company that Ramsey worked for shuttered and sold off assets in late 2011.
00:55:52
Grayhawk Homes, which is another developer, bought Rottlund's Iowa division. This is according to Builder
00:56:00
Magazine. Ramsey Kristen Ramsey in turn became a title officer at Midland Title and Escrow, which is a division of Home
00:56:08
Services of Iowa, a major parent company of several local real estate businesses.
00:56:15
So, she began working for that company, a different company, several months after Ashley Oakland's death. Here's
00:56:22
something that I found incredibly intriguing, Captain. So, as said, Kristen Ramsey at the time worked for
00:56:27
Rottlund Homes, the company that built the model home where Ashley Oakland was killed. Ramsey's then boss, his name is
00:56:35
Steven Kahn, told ABC News. He said, "Nothing about Kristen Ramsey led him to suspect she may have been involved in
00:56:45
Ashley's death." Quote, "She was the nicest lady. I am totally shocked." And he goes on to note that he sat next to
00:56:53
Kristen Ramsey at Ashley Oakland's funeral. Now, as we said, Kristen Ramsey is being held on that $2 million cash
00:57:02
bond. Her attorney said that despite being part of a two-income household, she cannot afford the $2 million cash
00:57:10
bond, right? I mean, what everyday family can? Right. So, her attorney has requested a reduced bond. As part of the
00:57:19
request, Kristen Ramsey has agreed to several conditions if she were to be released while she waits trial. This
00:57:27
including GPS monitoring, a curfew, supervision by a pretrial release officer, and surrendering her passport.
00:57:36
And her attorney saying, "Look, she's not a flight risk." Whatever. Anybody facing a murder trial
00:57:43
should be considered flight risk. I mean, Well, it's difficult here, too, cuz we
00:57:48
don't know if there's somebody else involved. And are these charges just to then put I mean, obviously they
00:57:54
they got some they got a grand jury to say, "Hey, yeah, you can go ahead and charge this individual. We took a look
00:58:01
at the evidence, but to get an indictment in a grand jury trial, it's a lot easier than a actual trial to
00:58:10
get a conviction. Well, it's it's not a conviction, it's just a hey, go and arrest this person.
00:58:16
And as you said, and like the police have openly said here, they and prosecutors will be
00:58:23
building a case. So, I mean, I'm not here to give legal advice, but if I were Ramsey,
00:58:30
and the way I look at this, I don't know how much they have. I I question how much they have,
00:58:35
especially at this time. I'm not waiving my right to speedy trial. I want to get
00:58:38
in there as quick as possible. And I want this thing in front of a judge. I don't want to another jury to to point
00:58:46
the finger at me. So, a a couple of things here. Back to something you said earlier, we don't know if anybody else
00:58:53
is involved, and that is true. I want to be clear that I'm not I'm not striking that as a possibility. What we do have
00:59:00
in a case where police have released so few statements, the one statement that they made after Kristen Ramsey was
00:59:07
arrested is that no other arrests are going to be made in this case. So, it sounds like they
00:59:14
think she is solely involved or the only person involved here. Uh we do have an individual that that
00:59:24
is deceased that we already discussed, Joseph. Right. >> Yeah, you're not arresting a dead
00:59:30
You're not arresting a dead person, and I do I and you're exactly right, Captain. I'm I want to make clear I'm
00:59:34
not pointing a finger at him, but anybody else that has passed since then. I mean it's almost 15 years. Right.
00:59:42
Anybody else that has passed since then, you're not arresting them either. So, that doesn't while that statement may
00:59:49
sound like she's the only one involved, that doesn't mean that 100 thousand percent. The No, cuz we've heard from
00:59:56
law enforcement before that when they make the arrest, they go, "Oh, well, Kristen Ramsey is
01:00:02
the only individual that's responsible for this crime." And they're not stating that. So, it's very possible that
01:00:09
there's somebody else involved, but that person has passed away either due to suicide or some other cause cuz as you
01:00:16
said >> Right. >> Vehicular accident. Yeah. Couple things that I'm really curious that I would
01:00:22
suspect we're going to learn much more about is one obviously what evidence did they present to the grand jury to
01:00:32
get the indictment? That's going to be really intriguing. Yeah, but motive isn't evidence though. Uh but you're
01:00:39
right. No, you're saying what is the motive. >> Yeah. That's what That's what I'm most curious
01:00:45
of. What Why the hell would this person do this? It It doesn't Well, like like her
01:00:52
her co-worker Yeah, like her co-worker {slash} boss said, like she was the nicest lady. I'm
01:00:57
totally shocked. Like this guy he's like I had no idea that and and he said, "I sat next to her at
01:01:05
Ashley Oakland's funeral." So, how well did the two know each other? Did she go there to because she's just
01:01:12
completely evil and wanted to see the damn thing play out? Did she go there just because she thought, "Well, it'd be
01:01:18
weird if I didn't show up?" I would I maybe I'm uh >> It looks suspicious. Yeah.
01:01:23
>> Exactly. And then >> Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. What evidence, what motive
01:01:31
I I'm also very curious what we can learn about this Wanda Larson, the woman that found
01:01:39
Ashley Oakland. I I what What details did she give? What did she see? What did she description of what
01:01:47
she claimed she heard to police and how they were able to work that information. Very curious about that as
01:01:57
well. Now, as we said, her attorney Ramsey's attorney has requested a reduction in
01:02:03
bond. In a separate motion, her attorneys are also attempting to block a potential warrant. Okay, so this search
01:02:12
warrant would allow investigators to seize and search her cell phone and other electronic devices. Now, her
01:02:20
defense is arguing that searching devices that did not even exist at the time of the alleged crime 15
01:02:29
years ago would not be necessary It'd be completely unnecessary, right? These these items, devices didn't exist. So,
01:02:38
they're saying it's not necessary. I don't know if I agree with I don't know if I agree with that. I don't agree
01:02:44
with it. I mean, but she has a job to do. Right. She has to defend her client. So,
01:02:50
of course they're going to say, "That's not necessary. Don't look underneath these rocks."
01:02:54
>> We don't know what they would find or if it's necessary until once they're examined. Now, if the warrant is granted
01:03:01
though, her attorney is is asking the court to issue a protective order to safeguard
01:03:08
any privileged or confidential information. I hope that they would. Uh Kristen Ramsey is scheduled to appear in
01:03:15
court again on March 30th when a judge is expected [music] to rule on both defense motions.
01:03:27
>> [music] [music] >> All right. Want to thank everybody for listening [music] and joining us here in the garage.
01:03:42
Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. It'll be interesting because [music]
01:03:47
we know there's going to be updates. So, as those updates come out, we'll be able
01:03:52
to share that information with you. And we do a lot of updates on our other show
01:03:57
Off the Record, which is on Patreon and Apple podcast subscription. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
01:04:03
beautiful listeners? Yeah, and and to point something out too, that our episode will leapfrog the motions,
01:04:12
right? That that are to take place on March 30th. So, we're recording this prior to that court appearance if it
01:04:19
does go down. We know it's like a 50% chance, right? Half the time these things don't seem to go down or they get
01:04:25
moved. But yeah, look to our social media. If there's anything of note that comes out of that court appearance, we
01:04:34
will be doing our best to keep you up to speed on the situation. And yes, Captain, recommended reading this week
01:04:42
Killing Time with John Wayne Gacy, Defending America's Most Evil Serial Killer on Death Row by new friend of the
01:04:49
show Karen Conti. John Wayne Gacy raped, tortured, and murdered 33 boys and young
01:04:56
men, burying most of them in the crawl space under his Chicago home. Karen Conti was in high school at the time
01:05:04
watching the bodies being removed on television. 14 years passed and then through a weird twist of fate, Karen
01:05:11
Conti, at that time a young and inexperienced attorney, was called upon to handle
01:05:17
Gacy's final death row appeals. The serial killer soon becomes her most famous, difficult, and haunting client.
01:05:27
30 years after Gacy's execution, Karen Conti looks back through the eyes of a seasoned professional on the legal and
01:05:34
media circus that ensued and her countless hours of detailed conversations with the killer clown. We
01:05:42
hear for the first time about Gacy's gruesome body book. Were Were there more victims? We hear about conspirators
01:05:49
involved in the murders. Potentially, what secrets were buried with this serial killer when the state
01:05:57
executed him. Karen Conti was on our very popular Apple subscription and Patreon show Off the Record. She has had
01:06:05
an amazing career as an attorney and radio talk show host. The book is available on Kindle Unlimited. So, if
01:06:13
you're a subscriber there, free to you, go get it. It's also available on Audible. Again, if you're a subscriber,
01:06:18
go get it. And if you're not a sub subscriber there, get the paperback on Amazon. Again, that
01:06:25
title is Killing Time with John Wayne Gacy, Defending America's Most Evil Serial Killer on Death Row. You'll find
01:06:32
that title and many more on our recommended page on our website truecrimegarage.com.
01:06:38
And until next week. >> Be good, be kind, and don't litter. >> [music] [music] [music]
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>> Any way you enjoy Taco Bell's Crispy Chicken Nuggets is the right way to enjoy them. And now there's a new way,
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[music] inside a Crunchwrap Slider. The all white meat crispy chicken nuggets you love with your choice of creamy
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chipotle or jalapeno honey mustard sauce inside a slider size Crunchwrap. [music]
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Iconic. The new crispy chicken Crunchwrap Slider with creamy chipotle or jalapeno honey mustard sauce, [music]
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a brand new classic, only at Taco Bell. At participating Taco Bell stores for a limited time only, while supplies last.
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Contact store for participation, which varies. Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. Hold my hand? You hold my
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hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at adoptuskids.org. You can't imagine the reward. Brought to
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you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.