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Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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And like always, we like your jib. So, welcome to season 4, Captain. You know, last week we joked around at the end of
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season 3 that we were going to take this big long break and >> 2 and 1/2 years. >> We we we we thought that everybody would
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>> We like your jib. >> For all things True Crime Garage, go to true crime garage.com. And for social
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media, check us out at True Crime Garage. And that's enough for the business. That's right. Gather around,
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grab a chair, grab a beer, and let's talk some true crime. [Music] This is true crime garage.
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And this is the case of Beverly Pots. [Music] Beverly Rose Pots. Age 10 years old, height 4'11
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and weight about 90 lb. Classification: Endangered missing. Missing since August 24th, 1951 from
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Cleveland, Ohio. Beverly is a Caucasian female with blonde hair and blue eyes. She had her hair cut as a short bob with
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bangs. She was wearing blue denim jeans and a reddish pink turtleneck jersey with a navy blue poppplland jacket and
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brown Kerry Brook sports shoes loafers. The last confirmed sighting of Beverly was at 9:30 p.m. at Hollerin Park.
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She was last seen walking in the direction of her home. Beverly Rose Pototts. Age 10 years old, height 4'11,
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and weight about 90 lb. Classification: Endangered missing. Missing since August 24th, 1951 from
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Cleveland, Ohio. This is True Crime Garage and this is the case of Beverly Pototts.
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[Music] [Music] This is Friday, August 24th, 1951. Beverly Pototts is 10 years old and
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she's living with her mom, dad, and sister on Lynette Avenue in Cleveland, Ohio. Now, this is on the west side of
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Cleveland and it's summertime. So Beverly, she is enjoying the last few weeks of her summer break before she
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returns to school. She was due to enter the fifth grade that year. Beverly is quite excited about the weekend. She has
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already had some plans scheduled. She's planned to go with her sister and mother
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and father on Saturday. Beverly's sister lived, as we said, at the home with the
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family, but she was quite a bit older than Beverly. Beverly's sister, Anita, was 22 years old at the time, and the
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two of them lived with their parents. and they were going to go to Uklid Beach Park for an all day outing on that
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Saturday. >> So that's like a 12 year difference. So she's she's probably like an accidental
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baby. >> Possibly. Possibly. But to add to her excitement, that Friday afternoon,
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Beverly had learned that the show wagon was coming to nearby Hollerin Park. Now,
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the show wagon is sponsored by the Recreation League and the Cleveland Press, and it was a kind of a summer
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tradition. The show wagon was a group of singers, dancers, mi music magicians. >> Musicians
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>> and magicians. >> I kind of just rolled those words together. >> He made up a new word.
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>> And other performers that traveled around to Cleveland uh to the different neighborhoods in Cleveland in the summer
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months doing free performances at local playgrounds and other public venues. >> So, it's kind of like a arts festival
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type thing. >> Yeah. And this had become one of Beverly's favorite summertime activities. Now, on this Friday, Beverly
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was excited, of course, uh, but she was also a little bit nervous because she was going to need to ask permission to
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go to this performance, and she was currently in trouble with her parents. >> Her mother had grounded her from going
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to Hollerin Park for 2 weeks because she had went there earlier, and she had stayed out much later than she was
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allowed to. Mhm. >> Uh but even though she was grounded, her mother is going to let her go see the
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show wagon. And Beverly is going to go with her best friend and next door neighbor, Patricia Swing.
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>> Well, this is around the time uh I mean, even in the 80s, it was kind of a thing.
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So, I'm assuming this was kind of the same thing in the ' 50s where your parents would say, "Yeah, go out with
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your friends, ride your bikes, do whatever you got to do, but hey, when the street lights come on, get home." or
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even before that once you start seeing that that it's getting dark, get home. >> And not only for, you know, for the
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teenagers, but for some of the younger kids as well, this is also kind of a social event, right? Because you go
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there and there's going to be other kids your age. You haven't seen some of those
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kids because of the summer break. You catch up with them. You say hi. Maybe you hope to see the the boy or the girl
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that you like or, you know, some friends that you haven't seen all summer long. Uh, after dinner, Beverly is helping her
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mother clean up and dry the dishes. And for her efforts, her mother, Elizabeth, gives Beverly a nickel for helping out.
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Around 700 p.m., Beverly and Patricia leave to go off to the park to see the show wagon. Now, they leave their homes
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on their bikes, and Hollerin Park is only about an eighth of a mile from their homes on Lynette Avenue. Mhm.
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>> Hollerin Park stretches for about three blocks from West 117th to West 120th Avenue.
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>> Yeah. But when you're like 10 years old, 12 years old, 15, you know, all that
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stuff before you can drive, your bike is a big deal. I mean, that's your that's >> your means of transportation,
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>> right? So, this is a the the park itself is a 13 acre civic recreational area
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with baseball diamonds, basketball courts, uh trapeze bars, and a shelter house. Uh the park was named for William
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Hollerin, who was a sailor that was killed on the USS Arizona and at uh Pearl Harbor.
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>> I I Captain. >> So, the girls leave for the park on their bikes. Uh but it's estimated that
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there were about 1,500 people at the park that evening. So, the girls want to get off their bikes and get a good spot
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so they can see the performance. Well, they decide that it's going to be very difficult to watch the performance and
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all the while keeping an eye on their bicycles. So, they go home and they leave their bikes and return to Hollowin
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Hollerin Park on foot. They arrive at the park around 8:00 p.m. Uh, Patricia would later report that the two young
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girls didn't really talk to very many people while they were there. So, this this was something they thought might be
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a social event, and it didn't turn out to be very social for them. They arrived at 8:00 p.m. Now, around 8:40 p.m., it's
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starting to get dark out, and Patricia is trying to get Beverly to leave and go home as Patricia is supposed to be home
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by dark. Like the captain said, make sure you're home by dark. Uh it's starting to get dark and she wants to
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leave, but Beverly informs her that uh she has been given permission to stay until the performance is over. I'm
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guessing her parents probably didn't know exactly how late this would would go because we're talking about two young
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girls that are, you know, roughly 10 years old. >> Yeah. It sounds like Bever Beverly is
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trying to stay out on a technicality. >> Yeah. And she's already gotten in trouble for doing this once. So maybe
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maybe this is something she's pretty good at. Uh but she she tells Patricia, you know, I'm allowed to stay until
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until this whole thing's over. Uh so Patricia leaves, you know, she doesn't want to get in trouble with her parents.
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She decides to go home, leaving her friend to enjoy the show wagon performance by herself. Patricia stared
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uh started walking home and her last memory of Beverly is of her standing there watching the show with a plump
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little woman. And this is the young girl's words. The pl a plump little woman standing behind her with one hand
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on her shoulder and the other holding a small child. Uh, you know, I got to cut in here for a second because I always
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found this to be >> You got to cut in on yourself. >> I'm going to cut in. I got to interrupt
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myself. >> Interrupt myself. >> I always found this to be weird because they they said that they didn't talk to
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>> I always found you weird >> talk to hardly anybody while they were there. >> Mhm. And yet she sees this woman
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standing behind her friend with with the hand on the shoulder. So this must be somebody she knows or feels comfortable
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with. And the plump little woman is holding a small child in the other hand. It always intrigued me that that this
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was somebody that Patricia says she didn't speak to and she didn't recognize obviously didn't know the person's name
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if she's just giving a description of the woman. But but is it clear that I mean you say the hand is on a shoulder.
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You didn't say the hand is on Beverly's shoulder. >> That's what that's what it sounds like
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from Patricia's account that the woman had her hand on Beverly's shoulder. >> Yeah. That's odd.
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>> Mhm. Uh again, seeing how they didn't supposedly talk to anybody that evening.
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Uh Beverly's family, they are at home, as we said, an eighth of a mile away. Uh Patricia arrives home safely. She's the
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next door neighbor. She arrives home safely at 9:00 p.m. and she never sees her friend Beverly again after that.
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Now, the the family is is watching. This is Beverly's family. They're at home. Uh
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all of them. It's the father, Robert, mother Elizabeth, and the older sister, Anita. They are at home watching the
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Indians Yankees game. Uh this is I would imagine this is probably what a lot of people what a lot of the grown-ups were
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doing that evening because uh we know how big baseball is in Cleveland and we we all know how much the Clevelanders
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dislike the New York Yankees. Um and I think they were in a pretty heated race that year. I
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>> I wonder if they're actually watching or if they were actually just listening to
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it on the radio. >> Well, they were watching it cuz uh you know TVs were relatively new at the
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time. So, I imagine most the people that had a TV at the time would have been at
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home watching this game on that evening. Uh, it's around 9:30 and they're starting to get nervous because they've
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not seen Beverly. She's not returned. >> So, they have Anita. Anita, the older sister, calls the swing household and
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ask about Beverly and and she's told, you know, yeah, uh, Patricia came home, but she came home alone and she's been
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here for, you know, a little over half an hour now. Um, and we don't know where Beverly is now.
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>> Now, well, here's what's weird, too, is if they rode their bikes there first and
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then they then they went back to Beverly's house, right, to drop off the bikes. So then her her friend doesn't go
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back and pick up her bike. She just walks home. >> Well, they live next door. So presumably
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they they just went home and returned their bikes to their houses and then left immediately.
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>> I wasn't clear on that. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. I said they were neighbors, but they were actually next door
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neighbors, >> right? So they're they're also kind of friends by proximity, right?
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>> Yeah. Age and proximity. Um this raises the alarm. Okay. because now now their
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daughter's not home, but they're extremely worried because now they know that she's probably alone and that her
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friend, you know, strength and numbers, right, is is now returned home and Beverly's not there. So, Mr. Pots uh
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decides he's going to go to the park and he's going to look for his daughter and
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he would gather up a couple neighbors to go to the park with him. As we said, this park is roughly 13 acres, so it's
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it's fairly decent size, and it's dark out now. And I've I've also read some descriptions of the neighborhood stating
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that they had several large trees, like lots of large trees on the streets of these neighborhoods. So, even though
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they had street lights, they said that the the park and the streets themselves were particularly dark because those
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trees covered up a lot of the lighting. Yeah, you'll see that now of days when they build like a new housing
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development. >> Like it seems pretty bright and you can see everything because the trees aren't
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mature yet and then once that neighborhood becomes mature, you realize, wow, this really gets a lot
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darker than than it it once was. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they Mr. Pots and some of the neighbors, they search the park
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uh looking for Beverly and after searching for about an hour or so, they call the police. So, we have things
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happening at a very quick pace here. Um, you know, we have the the girls arrive at the park around 8. Patricia leaves
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around 8:40. She's at home close to 9:00. 9:30, the family realizes that Beverly's not where she should be. And
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within an hour of 9:30, the father along with a few other people have searched the park and they've called the police.
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And the police are quick to respond. So now we have this 10-year-old, you know, that went missing. She just went to this
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event. Her parents can't find her. So they go looking for her. They get the police involved. And now we got to start
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figuring out all the little details. And they start normally by, you know, the description of the individual.
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>> Yeah. Typically, they're going to want want the parents to tell them as much as
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they can about the child, what they were last seen wearing, what they left the house, and
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>> well, and the fact that, you know, she just left the house a little bit ago. So, it's not like she left for school in
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the morning, and we haven't seen her since. What was she wearing? I can't remember. I mean, she left the house,
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you know, under two hours ago. and we gave a description of of her in the trailer, but there there's a little more
00:18:04
detail to it, so I'll go through that now. Um, as we said, she's 10 years old, height and weight. She's about 4'11, 90
00:18:12
lb. Uh, she's described as a Caucasian female with blonde hair, blue eyes, and she had recently cut her hair to a short
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bob with bangs uh shortly before the disappearance. Now, if you look up images of Beverly Pototts, you will see
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the the typical image that comes up first is of her where she appears to be a little bit younger and she has long
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hair. Um, and because these are black and white photos, it appears that she has dark hair, but her description
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clearly says blonde hair. And then you'll see more recent photos of her with the the shorter haircut. Some of
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her distinguishing characteristics, uh, she has wide set eyes and gaps between her teeth and her upper and lower mers
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have s silver fillings in them. Uh, she has a vaccination scar on her upper left
00:19:04
arm and a small scar over her left eyebrow and a kidney-shaped birthark about one inch long and 3/8 of an inch
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wide on her instep. Now, one thing that that is often described about uh Beverly
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when when you look up her case and look into her case is that she had a very distinctive walk. Um it's described as
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ducklike. You know, she kind of walked with her toes pointing outward and and this must have been very obvious to
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everyone because it's mentioned time and time again when they talk about her disappearance.
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>> So, she was opposite of the captain cuz the captain w walk inward. Yeah. >> Nobody ever told me either.
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>> So, you never corrected it? >> No. >> Uh, as said, she had that distinctive walk where she would walk with her toes
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pointed out. Uh, she was considered tall for her age uh at the time of her disappearance. And now, looking back,
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uh, you know, they continue to give her description, you know, from time to time. And one thing that they've
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included, you know, years afterward would be that they suspect she would have grown to be a tall adult. Uh her
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clothing and jewelry description at the time that she went missing, she was believed to be wearing size 14 or 16 uh
00:20:24
pants. These were girls uh blue denim jeans uh with the side zipper um and a bright it says bright red cotton panties
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um with no tag and elastic around the waist but no elastic around the leg holes. She was wearing green socks
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um a white cotton honeylane under t-shirt uh with a tag. A reddish pink turtleneck jersey with no label. A navy
00:20:51
blue popppland jacket with no label. both pockets torn. Uh, size five or five and a half brown Cary Brook sports
00:21:00
shoes. These are loafer style shoes. Uh, which had been resold and healed. Uh, she also had two metal hair clasp with a
00:21:10
brown plast with brown plastic covers and a yellow gold ring. This ring is similar to like a wedding ring and it
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has spaces for seven or eight small stones, but the stones were all missing, >> right? So, probably something that a
00:21:24
family member had and they just handed it to her and she was just happy to have that little ring as as a 10-year-old.
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So, I wonder if they knew all this information uh based on like I mean it is what 51, right? So,
00:21:38
>> you know, the mom's probably laying out your clothes. I mean that you kind of go
00:21:41
through that as a child. It's like you wake up and there's like an outfit laid out for you,
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>> you know, and then you turn 16 and you stop wearing those outfits. Well, and you know, when I first came across this
00:21:52
case and looked into it, I thought the description of her clothes was very strange because it's very specific. I
00:21:58
mean, even down like it's a they're a little the no tag thing is weird. Did the mom pull out tags of things? Maybe
00:22:06
that's >> I That's what I'm guessing because I found it strange that the the size of
00:22:10
the pants were either 14 or 16. Um, but then we go into details whether we know what what clothing had tags and what
00:22:18
didn't have a tag. However, when I got to thinking about it, you know, not every size 14 is the same 14 for every
00:22:26
pair of pants or every make of pants. So, she may have wore 14 of ones and 16s of others. But, as you said, the no tag
00:22:34
thing is a little bit weird. And I always found it very strange that the bright red cotton panties were listed
00:22:40
there. But >> again, like if the mom is helping her pick out outfits >> and I think that's probably exactly what
00:22:46
was going on because Mr. Pototts, he was a stage hand. He he had a full-time job
00:22:51
and Elizabeth Pototts, his wife, she was a stay-at-home, she was a homemaker, stay-at-home mom.
00:22:56
>> Yeah. Which is more common back then. >> Yeah. So, uh, she probably had a very
00:23:00
good idea of exactly what the girl was wearing because as the captain said, she might have been responsible for setting
00:23:07
these clothes out for Beverly in the morning time or uh, you know, she was probably up on the laundry. You know,
00:23:14
what what's getting washed when and and when things are getting used and and making sure that her daughter is dressed
00:23:20
appropriately. So, I do commend the parents for being able to provide such a detailed description because sometimes
00:23:27
when children go missing, uh, there are valuable minutes and hours lost because sometimes people don't have an
00:23:35
up-to-date picture of their child or they don't have a great idea of what the kid may have been wearing that day or,
00:23:42
you know, these little details do matter. And when you're trying to piece them together and provide the police
00:23:47
with information, you could lose valuable time here trying to recall these these things and and kind of
00:23:54
asking others, you know, what was she wearing? >> Yeah. And if you don't pay attention to
00:23:58
what, like you said, what she wear what she's wearing when she left for this event and then, you know, she's wearing
00:24:03
some jacket that they find later and and you you have is this her jacket? I don't
00:24:09
know. I have no clue. >> And then that's where then you is this jacket a lead or not? So yeah, I mean
00:24:14
it's very important kind of um mental checks of that stuff. >> So that's a more indepth uh more
00:24:21
detailed description of the items that she was wearing and her distinguishing characteristics. And now we are on to
00:24:28
the search. >> Before the search, let's take a quick beer break. All right, that's a nice
00:24:32
word from the sponsors. And if it wasn't for them, we would have took off uh two
00:24:36
and a half years. >> That's right. >> So all right, cheers everybody. >> Cheers. So, where we left off, we're at
00:24:43
the start of our search and investigation for the disappearance of Beverly Rose Pototts. Now, this would
00:24:51
end up going down in history as one of the largest searches for a missing person in the Cleveland, Ohio history.
00:24:58
Within hours, there are thousands of Clevelanders there that are searching for this girl. The postal carriers are
00:25:07
given a description of Beverly and posters with her picture are going up on utility poles and windows all over the
00:25:15
city. >> Yeah. And with that with within hours, but you know, basically the start the
00:25:19
start of the next day. She went missing at night. >> Exactly. Um, now there were there were a
00:25:26
lot of eyewitnesses, a lot of supposed eyewitnesses in this case. As we had said, there were about 1,500 people
00:25:33
present at the park that evening. Now, unfortunately, out of those 15,000, I'm sorry, 1,500 people. Out of those 1500,
00:25:42
there were not a lot that came forward with information to the police regarding having seen Beverly Pototts or know her
00:25:50
whereabouts or if they had seen her with somebody else. Um, so what what the police end up doing is we had said this
00:25:58
was um this was late August. Well, school was starting for these children in September. Now, the police don't know
00:26:07
everybody that was in in attendance at that park that evening. So, one thing that they do is they start going to
00:26:14
Beverly School when school starts up in September to interview a lot of the kids
00:26:19
that were her age to find out if they were in fact at the park that evening. And if they were if they had seen
00:26:25
anything. Now they get a lot of stories from these kids. >> Yeah. I mean I would I would assume this
00:26:31
presents a problem. >> This because because first of all >> Cheers. >> Cheers. No, but I think this would present a big
00:26:40
problem because you're now asking kids to remember event that happened weeks ago.
00:26:45
>> Mhm. And whether they were there or not, some people will just come forward because they want to be a part of the
00:26:52
process and say that there were somewhere that they weren't at ever. So, >> Right. Right. Well, and picture these
00:26:59
kids. These are young kids that they're interviewing. Right. >> Beverly was 10 years old.
00:27:03
>> Yeah. They're interviewing 9, 10, 11 year old kids. And a lot of them had probably heard about this before they
00:27:10
went back to school and they're young. they don't really understand the situation and what's going on. Now, as
00:27:16
said, there were thousands of Clevelanders out looking for this girl, so there's no way that they probably
00:27:20
didn't hear about it. Uh, and in fact, a few days after uh her disappearance, there was a a front page editorial that
00:27:30
was entitled, "Let's all help look for the missing child." You know, and so this was going on throughout the entire
00:27:37
city. Everybody was aware of this. Now when they sit down and they start talking to these kids,
00:27:44
um they are finding out that you know these are kids and teenagers and the police figure out early into the goings
00:27:51
on here that they need to be hesitant about some of the stories that they are hearing. In fact, a lot of these stories
00:27:57
were they're hearing them and they're as they're writing them down and taking their notes, they're going, "Well, this
00:28:03
is not a likely story. this >> everything I'm hearing right now probably didn't happen.
00:28:10
>> Um, you know, and and in most of the cases, these ended up being proven lies that they were hearing from the
00:28:17
children. Uh, you know, some of these kids, they wanted they they may have wanted the attention or some of them
00:28:22
wanted to be a part of the whole thing. As we said, this was a very big story >> and maybe not flatout lies, but just,
00:28:30
you know, misspeaking or, you know, or misremembering. I mean, I don't think the kids intentions were, you know,
00:28:38
there was no malice behind it. >> No, I agree. But but you also have to keep in mind, too, maybe these kids, you
00:28:46
know, were were you at a park August 24th, you know, and you're you're 9 or 10 or 11 years old and being asked this
00:28:54
a week or two later. Um, kids don't remember where they were two weeks before. And and on top of that, you
00:29:02
know, did you see Beverly Pototts with anybody? Have you seen Beverly Pototts since then? Maybe they don't know
00:29:08
exactly who she is. And then, well, she's a girl about your age and she's about this height. And then, you know,
00:29:13
kids kids, I think, naturally want to be helpful. >> Well, we have evidence though. I mean,
00:29:19
we have evidence that um >> Beverly went to this park often. She was grounded before from going to this park
00:29:26
and staying out too late. So, we can just assume that this is a park that's frequented by the children that live in
00:29:33
that area. So, did you see her at the park? Yes, I did. But was it that day? >> Maybe not.
00:29:40
>> Right. Right. And again, if they didn't know who she was, and they're going, "Oh, yeah. I did see a little girl that
00:29:45
night." And I maybe I was at the park that exact me about, but there were 1500 people there. There were a lot of little
00:29:52
girls there. And at some point, Beverly Pototts becomes the only important girl there that evening. And did you see her?
00:29:58
Yes, I saw a little girl and I saw her do this or that. Uh, one of the eyewitnesses, and we won't go through
00:30:04
all of them. As we said, there's so many that were just bad leads. And unfortunately, the police had to follow
00:30:10
up on most of them, uh, if they if they were unable to determine if it was a lie
00:30:15
or or just a madeup story immediately. But one of the eyewitnesses was a 9-year-old girl. She had said that she
00:30:22
saw Beverly Pototts get into a green car with two boys in it. Now, this sounds like a good lead. However, no one else
00:30:30
reported having seen this take place. Uh, and the boys themselves could not be identified by the eyewitness, and she
00:30:38
was not able to provide a decent description of the vehicle or the boys themselves.
00:30:44
>> Uh, but that gives you an example of of some of the eyewitness accounts that they were getting from the school-aged
00:30:50
children. Now, maybe the last person to see Beverly, well, other than, you know,
00:30:56
her murderer or abductor, as we could probably assume by now, uh, was Fred Krauss. Now, he's a 13-year-old boy, and
00:31:06
he recalled seeing Beverly at around 9:30. >> Okay, >> this would have been after the show
00:31:12
wagon performance had ended, and everybody was kind of leaving the park at this time. and he said that he saw
00:31:19
Beverly and he this is a one account that they believe to be true because he said some things, you know, details
00:31:28
about this disappearance where he says, you know, I well, how did you know it was Beverly? He said, I knew it was her
00:31:34
right away because she walked funny and and was able to tell that it was her. He
00:31:38
was actually riding home on his bicycle from the park that night and he said that he had um you know was coming down
00:31:46
the street. Mhm. >> And she kind of jumped out of his way so he could continue on his bike. Now, he
00:31:53
saw her. This would have be been around 9:30 after the performance had ended and
00:31:58
she was walking home alone. And the direction that he said she was heading would indicate to him and everybody else
00:32:05
that she was in fact heading home. >> Yeah. And this park like we've like we mentioned multiple times is it's less
00:32:11
than a mile. It's8 miles away from >> an eighth of a mile. >> Eighth of a mile. Yeah.
00:32:16
>> Okay. So, so really small window and then he sees her at what distance? I mean, we could be talking that she was
00:32:25
that she went missing basically blocks from her house. >> Yeah. >> And how many blocks? I mean, if he's,
00:32:30
you know, it could have been one block from her house, right? >> That's what's so crazy about a lot of
00:32:36
disappearing, you know, cases. It's just, >> you know, one minute they're there, one
00:32:41
minute they're gone. And and the proximity to her house, that's that's crazy. And I believe his account to be
00:32:47
true because one, he saw her within feet of her. You know, it wasn't from across
00:32:52
the way. >> And he's roughly her age, so he would know who she was. >> And he he pointed out to the officers
00:32:59
that he recogn because she was walking funny. She had that that duck walk. >> Right. And he's not saying, "I saw a
00:33:11
girl." He's saying, "I saw Beverly." >> Exactly. >> There's a big difference. Exactly. Now,
00:33:16
another thing that came into play here, uh, that was that was bad for the police
00:33:22
and bad for the investigation was 2 months after Beverly's disappearance, a man called the family. Now, I need to
00:33:29
set this up a little bit better here, okay? Because the at the time of her disappearance, they were receiving tips.
00:33:36
And when I say they, I mean the police and the Potts family, right? They're receiving tips that are being called
00:33:42
into the police station and to the Potts family's household as well. >> And you'll see later on. I mean, this is
00:33:49
1951, so I don't know if they tapped the the Potts family house or not, but that's something you'll see later. I
00:33:57
mean, if you think about the John Benet Ramsay case, you know, the girl goes missing, then they set up, they start
00:34:02
wiretapping the the house for any leads that might come in or sus some suspicious calls. But yeah, so and this
00:34:10
is also 1951 where people's numbers are normally listed. >> Mhm. And the cruel thing here is I'm
00:34:17
going to fast forward past this this incident for just a second. But the cruel thing here is eventually the Potts
00:34:24
family, they were in the phone book and eventually they had to make their number
00:34:29
unlisted, right? Because they were receiving harassing phone calls and uh menacing phone calls, you know, people
00:34:36
taunting them at some point with pranksters. >> That's ridiculous. >> This would take place I I think it might
00:34:42
have been a year or so after the disappearance that they had to phone number. I mean, think about some sicko
00:34:48
was just sitting there with their number deciding, I got this I got this prank to
00:34:54
pull on the family and and it could have been anything. I mean, what are you thinking? Like, you know, like, oh, I
00:34:59
have her, we want the ransom or all I saw her, but I didn't see her. I mean, because there's there's also that ca
00:35:06
that that stuff happens too, you know, where a girl goes missing and some crazy loon that has no freaking life is
00:35:14
sitting there going, "Well, what if I call them and tell them I saw her?" >> Mhm.
00:35:21
>> Then I get to talk to somebody. You see what I'm saying? >> Oh, yeah. >> There's there's sickos out there. Well,
00:35:27
and and you know, there were there was a journalist and an investigator that I read about regarding this case
00:35:34
specifically that said that for some reason the disappearance of Beverly Pototts brought out every nut pot and
00:35:40
nutcracker cracker out of the woodwork because they were receiving Nutcracker. >> I think I Yeah. Uh
00:35:47
>> I said nutcracker earlier. That's what that's >> it slipped in. Um but they were
00:35:52
receiving so many calls and they estimate that they were receiving about a thousand phone calls a day between the
00:35:58
Potts household and the police department. Now this makes it very hard to uh investigate this case. Um but one
00:36:06
such incident was this. This was 2 months after the disappearance. As I said, a man had called the family and
00:36:13
demanded a $25,000 ransom for the safe return of Beverly Pototts. Okay. And he said he said that we have your daughter
00:36:22
and um that if we do not get the $25,000 ransom, we are going to slit her throat.
00:36:30
So now a threat is made, a ransom is demanded. And the way that this was to go down is that the family was to
00:36:38
deliver. They're not to involve the police, right? >> They are to deliver. >> That's how it always goes down, right?
00:36:45
Don't if you tell the police, we're going to kill her. That's normally what happens.
00:36:50
>> Yeah. I think that's pretty standard uh ransom template. >> Yeah. But how many times do they do the
00:36:55
parents then just call the the police? >> Yeah. Can can you imagine being in that
00:37:00
situation? Did you know my gut would say get the police involved? I I think you know I don't know that I would Mel
00:37:07
Gibson it and just Is that the Mel Gibson movie where he just does it on his own?
00:37:11
>> Yeah. But the that's the strange thing too. I mean, you know, um, being a parent, if if you're, you know, if
00:37:18
you're a parent and you get this call and we have your daughter and and obviously you want her home safe and you
00:37:24
just want this nightmare to be over with and don't contact the police, what wouldn't there be like I mean, your gut
00:37:32
instinct is, okay, let's call the police. But isn't there a part of you going, what do these people know? And
00:37:38
are they going to know? I contacted the police and in how many cases was there a
00:37:43
ransom? A parent contacted the police and then that ended up causing the death of the child,
00:37:50
>> right? >> You know, and then and then you know the regret that you'd feel of that.
00:37:56
>> Well, presumably, you know, one would think that the ransom is only as good as
00:38:00
as the living uh you know, person that I'm holding to to to give back in in in favor for the money. if if if I if I
00:38:10
kill the the the victim or the hostage, then I'm not going to receive my ransom.
00:38:15
But I see what you're saying. These things get screwed up and they go wrong. Now, the Potts family did let the police
00:38:21
know about this ransom that was called in. >> Okay. And what they were told, you know,
00:38:26
they were told with the threat about the daughter's life, but they were told to deliver $25,000 in cash to a specific
00:38:36
address that was not terribly far from their neighborhood. Now, they involved the police,
00:38:42
>> which the park is not far from the neighborhood. So, now you're making this connection where, well, this is now
00:38:47
something that might be likely. >> Mhm. Now, the the Potts family, they lived in a in a decent area. It was a
00:38:54
regular middle-ass family, but it's not one that you would look at this family and assume that they got a bunch of
00:38:59
money to just pay out for to have their child returned. >> Um, what they end up doing is, uh, one
00:39:06
of the detectives, he dresses up, uh, like Mrs. Pototts because Mrs. Pot Pots was the one that was told to deliver
00:39:15
deliver the money. >> Right. Right. So, he puts on like this, I don't know, like a trench coat or like
00:39:20
a a fur coat, you know, something that that looks like a women's coat. Uh, and he ties his hair up, you know, with the
00:39:28
>> Well, guys don't wear fur coats. >> I Well, some of them do, you know, but this look like a woman's coat.
00:39:33
>> Conor McGregor. >> Joe Nameoth. >> They Yeah, these are three guys that like to wear fur coats.
00:39:39
>> Uh, and so he dressed himself up to appear to be a woman. Now, I've seen pictures of this man dressed
00:39:45
>> I'm sorry to laugh, but I've seen him dressed as a woman and he is he's kind of a larger big hands athletic looking
00:39:53
man uh that I don't know that he would have passed for Elizabeth Pots. >> Don't look at me. I'm hideous.
00:39:59
>> Well, apparently whomever he was to deliver the money to uh picked up on this and saw the detective coming.
00:40:07
>> Yeah. Well, when you see a guy that looks like a linebacker and a fur coat, you start going, "Well, I don't know. I
00:40:15
don't. And if this person lived in the area, then we could also assume if this is a legitimate ransom note, a
00:40:22
legitimate kidnapping that this person probably knew of the pots's family >> and what the lady looked like.
00:40:30
>> The only thing that gets a little weird about this is like we said, she was a
00:40:34
tall kid. So maybe uh the mother was a tall lady herself, but again, she probably didn't look like a linebacker,
00:40:41
right? >> With sausage fingers, you know, giant sausage fingers coming at you. And
00:40:45
you're going, "Wait a second." >> Well, and it turns out that this man that was seeking the ransom, he didn't
00:40:50
actually live at the address that he was requesting them to go to. He gave them a
00:40:54
specific date, specific time to give the money, hand it off to this person. >> Well, what's so crazy is, you know,
00:41:00
criminals are normally stupid. So it wouldn't it wouldn't baffle me or blow my mind if you told me, "Oh, he actually
00:41:06
lived there, you know, but you know, but he yeah, he did this the smarter thing as a criminal to just give you some
00:41:13
address, you know." >> So the detective dresses up like uh Mrs. Pots >> and he they fill a bag um this is to be
00:41:22
the money bag that he's going to hand off. They filled the bag with shredded newspaper and a five a single $5 bill,
00:41:29
which I'm not certain why they included any money at all, but uh I don't know, maybe if they had to open up the bag and
00:41:36
you want them to see some kind of money. >> Um but five bucks is as much as they
00:41:40
could scrape together for this sting operation. >> But you know, being a banker, you know,
00:41:45
you uh I was a vault teller, so what would happen is uh normally Tuesdays they'd come in with a big bag of money,
00:41:53
right? and they drop off the bag of money. Then I have to count all the money to make sure that we got the
00:41:57
correct amount of money uh from that the money service. And you'd be surprised sometimes you'd just, you know, order
00:42:03
hundreds and 50s and, you know, 10 grand would look tiny, you know, or a h 100,000 could look just like a brick,
00:42:12
you know. So in these movies where they open up a suitcase and it's just filled,
00:42:16
you know, and it looks like, oh, this is a h 100red,000 bucks. Like I've seen a h
00:42:20
100,000 bucks and depending on what denomination of money it comes in it can be quite small and you start looking
00:42:27
like that 100,000 you can slip in your pocket >> and maybe you know invest that into some
00:42:33
recording equipment and start a podcast. Not saying that happened. I'm just saying that it's a possibility. the man
00:42:40
that is to receive the money, he knows something is is going on here when he sees the person that is supposed to be
00:42:49
Elizabeth Pototts walking toward the the address to give him the money. >> Okay, so I just I'm just making this
00:42:56
clear for myself. So the guy that is supposedly holding this girl for ransom, >> right,
00:43:03
>> is now suspicious of the linebacker in the fur coat, >> right? The linebacker with the sausage
00:43:08
fingers and the fur coat is now suspicious of the ransom guy because this girl that is walking with him
00:43:16
>> that is supposed to be >> Beverly. >> No, no, no. I think you mis misunderstood me. It gets confusing
00:43:23
because because I keep referring to the the detective who's dressed as a woman as a she once in a while. So there there
00:43:30
is actually no she in this situation. >> Okay. The detective is supposed to be Elizabeth Pototts, the mother. Okay?
00:43:37
Because the ransom person did not want any males around. Did not want Mr. Pototts delivering the money because Mr.
00:43:43
Pots might be able to overtake him. Uh, you know, and take the guy down. >> Uh, so he requests that Elizabeth
00:43:50
Pototts bring the money to this address at this time on this date. >> Okay. >> The detective dresses up as a woman,
00:43:57
>> right? >> Trying to look like m Mrs. Pots. Mhm. >> He's going there with the bag of cut up
00:44:04
newspaper and a $5 bill >> and before he can get to the address, the man that is waiting there,
00:44:10
>> okay, >> freaks out because the this does not look like a woman, >> right? He's a linebacker.
00:44:16
>> And so he takes off on foot. >> Okay. >> And what ends up happening is the detective ends up chasing the guy down
00:44:22
and he he makes an arrest. >> Yeah. Good for him. They're able to figure out after talking to the guy and
00:44:27
going through the guy's home and his vehicles and things like that that this guy had nothing to do with the
00:44:33
disappearance of Beverly Pototts. >> Right. Just again a sicko getting involved and maybe trying to go, "Hey, I
00:44:39
got this great idea to get 25,000 bucks." >> You're exactly right. He was a guy that
00:44:43
was heavily in debt. He saw what he thought of as an opportunity and he took that opportunity to try to extort money
00:44:51
from parents of of a missing child. >> Yeah. >> Um and of course he ends up getting
00:44:56
>> you know they they should tack on years for that. >> You're exactly right. >> Not only was your crime stupid
00:45:03
>> Mhm. But, you know, you're now affecting a grieving family and a grieving community, and you're wasting taxpayers
00:45:11
time and money by getting this linebacker to wear a fur coat and chase your ass down and tackle you.
00:45:16
>> Yeah. >> We're going to tack on three years. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're you're
00:45:20
preventing justice from taking place because you're you're getting involved in the investigation and you're taking
00:45:26
up the police's time that they could be out, you know, they're a thousand calls a day. They had other calls to go out on
00:45:33
and this is a sting operation. This isn't something that they just threw together in 5 minutes. They probably
00:45:38
spent a little bit of time coming up with what is our best solution here. Do we actually send Elizabeth Pototts with
00:45:44
$25,000 and just hope that she gets her daughter back or do we intervene? Um so he ends up getting charged with
00:45:52
extortion and um you know all kinds of other things I'm sure. And I I I hope that in this situation, if they don't
00:45:59
currently, they should, as the captain says, tack on extra years for for that kind of shameful behavior. Um, but this
00:46:06
just shows you the things that the police had to deal with in this investigation.
00:46:12
>> Yeah. >> But one thing I do want to bring up too here, Captain, is we talked about this
00:46:17
ransom. Now, you know, for all the other true crime fans out there, the true crime lovers that that spend their time
00:46:24
reading and looking things up on the internet and reading these different books or watching old documentaries, you
00:46:30
you know that back in the day, and you know, I'm referring to the 30s, 40s, 50s. Back then, it was more expected to
00:46:39
receive a ransom than it is in current times. You know, unfortunately in current times when we see a child or
00:46:46
some or an adult go missing, we either expect that they're going to turn up soon or that they've they were taken and
00:46:54
we might not hear from them again, right? >> Um but back in the day, they actually it
00:47:00
was more common place to receive a ransom and a lot >> probably a lot of them being false.
00:47:06
>> Well, you're you're on to something there. But a lot of them were in fact true. You know, a lot of people, this is
00:47:11
how some of the the poor folks made some money, right? You know, that they they would be out and they would they would
00:47:18
abduct a wealthy person's child and return them unharmed and trade for 10 grand or 20 grand or whatever it was.
00:47:26
That happened more often. But just like the captain said, because sometimes that
00:47:30
doesn't happen because sometimes people take another person for other reasons other than a ransom that sometimes other
00:47:38
people would just call in a ransom and hope to get something out of this tragedy. Um, usually in a situation
00:47:44
though when a when a ransom is demanded, it's usually fairly quickly after the abduction. You know, it's not often that
00:47:53
you see two months go by before the ransom comes about. And I think that this is the police doing good detective
00:48:00
work and using their knowledge and they probably presumed that this was not uh may not end well. And that might be why
00:48:10
they didn't advise the Potts family to actually pay the ransom. Maybe this is why they didn't advise Elizabeth Pototts
00:48:17
to go and hand off the money herself. Um, and that's why they intervened. >> So, we got this this lead just kind of
00:48:24
comes to the crash and we get this guy in jail now. But, do we have any other good leads that like anything solid?
00:48:32
>> Well, another good bit of detective work that the police did was they did fully
00:48:36
investigate the pots family. um you know, as difficult as that can be, but you do have to rule out the immediate
00:48:45
family as quick as possible so you can go on to other possible suspects. >> Well, yeah, but one, we don't have a
00:48:52
body, right? We don't have a body and we have no we have three people at the house that it's it's not like, again,
00:49:00
I'm going to bring up the John Bet Ramsey case, but in that case, we have a we have a dead girl. Why the family is
00:49:07
all there? >> Mhm. So they become, I think, more prime suspects than in this case.
00:49:12
>> Yeah. But the other thing I just wanted to make sure I pointed that out, too,
00:49:15
because often we will hear, you know, you see this on Dine or other shows where they're like, you know, this
00:49:20
person went missing or or so and so turned up dead >> and uh by the way that they didn't
00:49:27
investigate the family until months and months after the fact, right? >> Uh this was not the case here. So
00:49:33
there's no reason to believe that uh Mr. Pots or Mrs. past or her sister had anything to do with with this crime at
00:49:40
all. >> It's a difficult situation for the cops to be in. >> Yeah. >> You know, because here's this girl going
00:49:46
missing and that it's tragic and there's a lot of emotions going and a lot of emotions that are that are coming at the
00:49:53
family and then you have to then say, "Hey, I got to question you. What's your involvement?" And one thing that I've
00:50:02
always done on my own when I'm looking at a missing person's with a missing child case, I should be very clear about
00:50:08
this, >> but you know, you can find these stories of missing children that have never
00:50:13
surfaced, that we've never seen them ever again after that that last time they were seen, right?
00:50:18
>> But one thing I always like to do when I'm looking at a case like that is I like to see what the parents did with
00:50:24
their lives after the fact. Because I'll clue you, you know, I'll throw this at you. Like there there was a case that
00:50:32
took place in Michigan. Now, this would have been in the late8s and we won't get
00:50:36
into this whole case, but the short of it is the son went missing. >> And I found the circumstances to be a
00:50:44
little strange and maybe had had a feeling maybe the father could have been involved in it because of where he was
00:50:50
last seen and such things of that nature. The family moved away like they moved away like nine or 10 months after the
00:50:59
son had disappeared. >> Yeah. Which is weird because you would assume that you know if he if there's a
00:51:05
chance of him coming home. >> Yeah. >> You know, you want to give that, you know, a bunch of windows and it's kind
00:51:10
of like the John uh Johnny Gosh case as well too. Look at look at the the path the mother took and the path that the
00:51:17
father took. And a lot of people now speculate that the father was involved because of his actions afterwards. So,
00:51:23
same thing that you're doing. >> Yeah. And I mean, you know, you see this time and time again where you have a
00:51:28
child that's gone missing and they're missing for an extensive amount of time. And you might hear an interview with the
00:51:33
parents 10 or 11 years later and they say, "We've not moved. We've thought about moving because the memories are so
00:51:40
hard for us to deal with. But but we would not be able to live with ourselves if if the chance that our daughter or
00:51:46
son got away from whomever and tried to come home and and we weren't there, >> you know, if they didn't know any other
00:51:53
means of contacting us, uh they wouldn't be able to live with themselves. So, this was not the situation with the
00:51:58
Potts family. I'll go ahead and throw that out there. Uh the Potts family remained in the home for many many years
00:52:04
and as said they were cleared pretty quickly by the police. The other thing that the police did was they searched
00:52:10
the neighborhoods because we know she was on foot and the thought would have been this is one thing that we didn't
00:52:17
cover when we were talking about her characteristics. She was very shy uh and almost to the
00:52:24
point of being afraid of men and older boys. Um they had said on multiple occasions, you know, if approached by a
00:52:33
man or an older boy that she was likely to walk away or run away from a situation. Okay.
00:52:41
>> And her parents had raised her to be uh well, she was very obedient one and and
00:52:47
a polite young child, but they >> Yeah. And more this is not common these days. >> Yeah. and they they they had raised her
00:52:55
as well to be weary of men and and boys. Um so once the police had this information, they were immediately
00:53:05
worried about this because it she was not likely to go off with somebody. She didn't have that personality. So the
00:53:14
police were working under a couple different theories. one that she either was taken by somebody that knew her or
00:53:21
that she somewhat knew uh or that she was she would have been lured into a vehicle or to a car, but it would most
00:53:29
likely have to be somebody she was somewhat familiar with that they didn't expect her to just get in a car with a
00:53:35
random speed. >> Yeah, possibly. Or by physical force. >> Yeah. and and she I guess even though
00:53:41
being young, you know, even as young as she was, she was known to have babysat for different neighbors in the in the
00:53:48
area. Um, >> right. So that would give her a bunch of connections and a bunch of possibilities
00:53:53
of uh suspects really. >> And one one police theory that they were working off of that maybe she was maybe
00:54:00
she was coaxed into a house with the thought of maybe that being offered a babysitting job.
00:54:06
>> Yeah. or just it's this uh you know dad of a kid that you watched multiple times
00:54:12
and you're walking home and he just says, "Hey Beverly, come in here for a second."
00:54:16
>> And then of course he's not a stranger and then you're also thinking like, you
00:54:21
know, this is somewhat my employer, so I need to, you know, comply with his with
00:54:27
his request. So, not only did they go doortodoor and ask the people living there if they had seen anything or
00:54:33
witnessed anything that evening or since uh but they have they've also were requesting to enter the homes and to you
00:54:42
know casually look around uh to see if there was anything that was of suspicious be nature.
00:54:48
>> Right. >> Um and the majority of the people seem to comply with this. Um, it it must have
00:54:54
been so much the majority that it almost sounds like when you read different newspaper accounts of this investigation
00:55:01
that it sounds like everybody was opening their doors. Um, but but they do specifically say uh those who who agreed
00:55:09
to do such. >> Another suspect is William Henry Redmond. He was a carnival worker who
00:55:15
died in 1992. He had a long criminal record for child molestation. this beginning when he was a young boy. Uh,
00:55:24
but he had been >> 18 years old, right? >> Yeah. He had been awaiting trial for the
00:55:29
1951 murder of an 8-year-old girl. Her name was Jane Elop. Now, he had died before they could convict him of this.
00:55:38
>> Well, but this is where it gets a little sketchy because he died in 1992. >> Correct.
00:55:44
>> And the murder took place in 51. >> Yes. >> So, it took him a long time to bring
00:55:48
this man to trial. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it took a long time. And while he was, you know, he had a
00:55:53
cellmate that he had he had told that he had killed Jane as well as three other little girls.
00:56:01
>> Um, we should point out though that uh the authorities did question him regarding the Beverly Pototts case. This
00:56:09
took place in 1988. Uh, he did refuse to make a statement either way about her disappearance. Um he did pass a
00:56:17
polygraph uh in connection to another unsolved disappearance of a girl from Connecticut. Uh but this was a man as
00:56:25
said he was a carnival worker. So he traveled around right >> and he had given these you know this
00:56:31
these accounts to this cellmate that he had abducted and killed four girls. Now,
00:56:37
while awaiting for this trial, the the thing here is the cellmate believes that he had heard um
00:56:45
he had heard that William Henry Redmond call, you know, say Beverly's name. Uh he couldn't say for certain if it was
00:56:51
Beverly Pototts, but he believes that the girl that he was describing uh sounded like Beverly Pototts. However, I
00:56:59
believe Redmond said that he had killed the girl in 1952. So, he could have been
00:57:05
off because, you know, he's telling this story years and years later, >> right? >> Um, however, he he could have simply,
00:57:11
unfortunately, killed a different girl at a different location in 1952. >> Um, >> yeah, I mean, he could get mixed up on
00:57:20
the time. I mean, it's not that far off. I mean, month-wise, um, and again, like I said, he could
00:57:26
have abducted this girl. If he's a carnival worker, he's traveling from town to town. He's not going to know who
00:57:31
the girl's name is. And yes, you would hear this stuff in your local news, but you know, this stuff wasn't national
00:57:38
news back in 51. You know, a girl went missing in Cleveland, Ohio. They're not bringing it up. There's not Nancy Grace
00:57:44
ain't, you know, she's not going to go do three months on this missing girl. >> Mhm. Now, after William Redmond dies,
00:57:51
you know, he passes away in '92, he's on trial for this the death of this young girl. Uh, but things get weirder even
00:58:00
after he passes away. um you know cuz he's suspected of possibly being Beverly Po's killer. In
00:58:08
1994, a letter was discovered underneath the carpet of a house on Midvail Avenue
00:58:14
on the west side of Cleveland. This is near the neighborhood of Beverly Pototts. The letter was written in 1960
00:58:21
by a woman who claimed that she had caught her woman disposing of Beverly's body in their furnace. Now, using real
00:58:28
estate records, the police identified and tracked down the writer of the letter.
00:58:33
>> Okay. >> Uh who was at the time 83 when they tracked her down by 1994. Her husband had had been passed away for
00:58:42
some time. The woman did admit to writing the letter, but she had said that the story was untrue, that she had
00:58:50
wrote the story as a it's listed as an as a revenge against her husband because he he physically abused her for years,
00:58:58
>> right? >> Um, however, I I believe that it was, you know, the long of it is it's it's
00:59:04
not really revenge. I think her abuse might been have been so bad that maybe she believed he he could possibly end up
00:59:12
killing her one day. >> And had that taken place, maybe she wrote this letter as something to kind
00:59:19
of leave lying around for someone to find if she were not around anymore. You see what I'm saying?
00:59:25
>> Yeah, I see that. But it's, you know, look, and I've said it before and I always get
00:59:34
called a feminist. Uh, I'm just a dude, man. I'm just a c I'm just the captain. But look, if some if a guy's hating you,
00:59:42
get the get out of there. There's plenty of nice guys that want to take care of you, that want to protect you, get get
00:59:47
away from those [ __ ] losers. Okay. >> No, I I agree. >> Right. But but so I feel for this lady,
00:59:54
but at the same time, you're going to bring into this this girl's case and this girl's family and then so yeah,
01:00:01
okay, so let's say hypothetically something does happen to you and and so there's this letter lying around and he
01:00:08
goes to jail because of this and there's not much evidence. What is what is their
01:00:12
connecting? >> You know what I mean? And then this poor family, you know, gets dragged into this
01:00:17
thinking that they they might get some closure for their missing daughter. You know, protect yourself. Stay away from
01:00:24
[ __ ] losers. You know, there's plenty of guys out there that will take care of
01:00:27
you, but don't drag into, you know, a missing girl's family into this. >> I agree. But but we can also, you know,
01:00:35
possibly assume here that if she was going willing to go to such extreme lengths to um to, you know, get justice
01:00:45
against her husband, you know, for killing her if she thought that he could possibly kill her, that maybe she felt
01:00:52
that this situation was one that she was unable to leave or didn't feel safe leaving. So, but at the end of the day,
01:00:59
she says this this letter has no truth to it. >> Correct. Correct. And and her husband
01:01:05
had been dead for some time at that that point. She may have forgotten about this
01:01:08
letter because they had to track her down. You know, they found this underneath a rug at at the home that she
01:01:14
once lived. >> Um, and in 19 I apologize, we're all the way up to the year 2000. Uh, in a 2000
01:01:22
>> 2000, >> an unidentified individual wrote two letters to the Cleveland plane dealer
01:01:28
reporter uh to a reporter at the Cleveland plane dealer. Uh, the letter the writer stated that he was dying and
01:01:35
he had confessed to molesting and murdering Beverly the night that she had vanished. The letter's author promised
01:01:42
that he would turn himself into the police on August 24th, 2001. This would be the 50th anniversary of Beverly's
01:01:50
disappearance. >> Wow. >> But be but shortly before this date, a third letter was sent to the Cleveland
01:01:57
plane dealer. This is saying that he had to go to a nursing home and thus he was
01:02:03
going to not be able to keep his promise revealing his identity or turning himself in. I actually read uh one of
01:02:10
the letters. I was able to find one of the letters. I wish I could have found all three, but I read one and he
01:02:16
basically states that he had lived in the neighborhood. >> Okay. >> And he had seen her and always been kind
01:02:22
of infatuated with her. Uh he, you know, we noted earlier that she was tall and he he he said that he thought she was a
01:02:30
little bit older. Uh but he was infatuated with her and when he saw her walking home that night by herself, he
01:02:38
saw this as an opportunity for him to to take her. And um you know, he he says that I'm only writing this to you
01:02:46
because I'm in my twilight years, that I'm at the end of the end of my life. And that um that he wanted to turn
01:02:55
himself in, >> right? So he felt bad. I believe I believe he even gave his age as 83 years
01:03:01
old uh at the time that he wrote that letter and he >> So what does that put him in 51?
01:03:09
>> So it would have been >> uh >> he was trying to turn himself in on the 50th anniversary. So that would have put
01:03:14
him about 32, you know, early 30s. >> Yeah. So roughly our age, >> her disappearance and uh and
01:03:23
>> No, but I'm just saying like to get the mental state of where this guy was at. I
01:03:27
mean, he's in his 30s and he has this obsession or you know, he says uh >> what was his term?
01:03:35
>> He said he was infatuated. He has Beverly, right? He has an infatuation, but he's 30 some years old and he has a
01:03:42
infatuation with a 10-year-old. Even if she looks a little older, she's 12. >> Right. Right.
01:03:47
>> Right. Right. Um he he had said that he would turn himself in at the park at Hollerin Park. He was going to go there
01:03:55
on the 50th anniversary and they could arrest him there and he would confess to the crimes um upon that uh upon that
01:04:04
date. And as said he he states that he he had to go to a um a nursing home. I believe that he said that he had he had
01:04:12
got cancer or his cancer was progressing um and that he needed to go to the nursing home and would be unable to keep
01:04:20
his promise uh turning himself in. Now, the authorities did launch an extensive investigation to identify the author of
01:04:27
the letters, but they were never able to ascertain anything beyond that the letters were all written by the same
01:04:34
person and that their author was probably an elderly infirm man. Um, the many investigators believe that the
01:04:43
correspondence was genuine. Um, and if I've seen the letters, they're written in cursive with a shaky hand. Um, I
01:04:50
don't know that that means that it has to be an old person, but I think that that's what they're basing um, some of
01:04:56
this information off of. >> Yes. This is pretty interesting, though. So, we have two letters that are
01:05:02
basically setting up the, you know, him turning himself in. Then a third letter apologizing.
01:05:09
>> Yeah. >> And he was picking the area. He was picking the anniversary. >> Mhm.
01:05:13
>> Again, stuff that you could just look up off the internet. Again, this could just
01:05:17
be I mean, where do you fall on this? Cuz I mean part of me goes I gut feeling some sicko that's just lonely. But if
01:05:25
you toss in that this guy might be 80 some years old. Do you do you really think a 80year-old would just be doing
01:05:33
this to get attention? >> No. >> I mean it seems like it lines up with the idea of I'm coming to my end
01:05:40
>> and I need to confess to this for for some kind of forgiveness or >> right >> remorse. I need to show remorse.
01:05:47
>> Like a a deathbed confession, but I'm going to confess now before while I still have all my mental capabilities
01:05:53
and I and I can be honest and come come clear with this. >> Um I don't know. I I hate to think that
01:06:00
it's a hoax. You would think that after 50 years that you might be able to get an answer. I but but I but again if it's
01:06:08
a deathbed confession, you almost think that somebody would carry through with this and turn themselves in, right? Um,
01:06:15
so I kind of lean on the side of a hoax. >> Yeah. But it could have been it could
01:06:18
have been as simple as the guy has, you know, my cancer is getting worse and he talks to somebody. He says, "Yeah, they
01:06:25
do take care of you in prison." >> Mhm. >> But the care is going to be very minimal.
01:06:31
>> Yeah. And this was not the first um correspondence that they were receiving. You know, the Cleveland plane dealer,
01:06:38
they immediately sent the uh letters to the police. They did not post these in their newspaper.
01:06:44
>> Well, and this is 2001, so at this point they're probably even being sent to the
01:06:47
FBI. >> Yeah. And they didn't put put this in their newspaper because they were worried if they put it in the newspaper
01:06:53
before the 50th anniversary that the man wouldn't actually turn himself in. So, there was no involvement with media
01:06:59
other than doing the proper thing by passing along the letters to the police. >> They didn't get involved and then hinder
01:07:06
this man from turning himself in. Now, this wouldn't be the first correspondence that investigators had
01:07:12
with somebody who claimed to either be the killer or know the killer. Um, back in the I believe it was the 70s, there
01:07:19
was a man that came forward that wrote letters. Well, I shouldn't say he came forward, but he had some form of
01:07:24
correspondence with the police and said that his brother had done the killing. Now, they there was an auto body shop uh
01:07:32
in the neighborhood. Now, keep in mind, this is the 70s, so you're talking about
01:07:36
20 years after the crime, right? But this this person had said that the brother did the killing and that the
01:07:42
body was buried in the basement. Uh this would have been a home at one time and that the brother supposedly lived at the
01:07:49
home, kidnapped her and killed her and buried her in the basement. Well, they went they went by they in the 70s they
01:07:56
went to this body shop >> and they dug up >> the concrete floor >> and I mean they went I think I think the
01:08:04
newspaper said they went four feet down, you know. So they went pretty far down before they realized there was nothing
01:08:10
there. There was nothing. This was this was another hoax in this situation. Now we're not completely out of hope.
01:08:16
>> Not not necessarily a hoax though. I mean it might you know the the brother actually might have believed this. You
01:08:22
know >> um there is some form of hope here though. And I know it sounds crazy because we're talking about you know 60
01:08:31
60 years has passed >> right? Um, over 60 years has passed and we don't have any answers,
01:08:37
>> but we still have the letters. So, I mean, we can try to do DNA testing. And this guy might have been in the system
01:08:43
by then in 2001. >> Well, in 2015, somebody had called Crimestoppers. An anonymous caller called Crimestoppers
01:08:51
and gave some information to Crimestoppers regarding the disappearance and murder of Beverly
01:08:58
Pototts. Now, this is very strange because this is so many years later. Well, what Crimestoppers did was they
01:09:06
actually increased the reward amount um that they were offering for information on Beverly Pototts. Why? Because when
01:09:14
they gave the information to investigators, the investigators made a public plea that, you know, using the
01:09:21
newspaper and using news sources, they made a public plea to have the caller please call back that you can remain
01:09:28
anonymous. You can you can contact us on the website if you like, but we need to
01:09:33
hear from you again because they believed that some of the information they received,
01:09:38
>> they didn't feel like this was a hoax. I don't know what information they received. They didn't say, you know,
01:09:43
they weren't outright with with information that they received, but there was something in there that they
01:09:48
were a they were latching on to, and they wanted to hear from this person. Again, again, increasing the reward
01:09:54
amount. um to this date um you know that was mid uh last year mid 2015 so it's been over a year and we've not heard
01:10:03
back from this anonymous person >> well and the frustrating thing for true crime fans is you know it's an ongoing
01:10:11
case it's an open case so a lot of times the police department will not u you know release this information and that's
01:10:18
difficult as a as a fan of the genre but uh we all understand that as far but sometimes I understand it. But sometimes
01:10:25
I get a little frustrated cuz it's like maybe there is one thing that if you tossed out to the public it would it
01:10:30
would spark, >> you know, some, you know, interest or some conversation or something and we
01:10:36
could solve, you know, this case that's been going on for 30 or 60 some years. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I think it's even, you
01:10:43
know, for me at the end of the day, do do I have an idea what I think happened? Well, uh it's hard to think that
01:10:49
somebody took her and then raised her as their own. you know, this being so many
01:10:53
years later and and we haven't heard anything or any new information come out regarding that. The police did have a
01:10:59
very tough investigation that there was you're not talking about a whole lot of evidence. You know, you're talking about
01:11:05
a whole lot of people and not really any eyewitnesses. Um the the thing that I keep going back to over and over again
01:11:12
in my head is who is that plump little lady, >> right? >> Uh that had her hand on her shoulder. I
01:11:18
I believe her friend. Um, I believe that this would be such a severe thing for this young child, for this Patricia
01:11:25
Swing to have experienced that I believe that she would be telling absolutely the
01:11:30
either the truth or something she believed to be the truth. Maybe she didn't see that, but maybe maybe she
01:11:36
thought she saw that. >> Um, but the thing here is we talked about how >> and it could have been something as
01:11:42
simple as this lady was behind her and the hand wasn't on the shoulder. >> Yeah. or just or or or happened to bump
01:11:49
into her and just said, "Oh, sorry, honey." and kept walking. >> And that was the right.
01:11:52
>> Yeah. But the but the thing curious thing here is the Pots family did say that Beverly would have been weary of
01:12:01
men and older boys. And so the police did have a theory that maybe she was enticed by a woman, that a woman could
01:12:10
have been involved in the abduction. Um, but as said, there was that tip that came out last year. Hopefully, we hear
01:12:17
something uh about this because this was one of the biggest uh cases and it still
01:12:22
haunts um some of the Cleveland area to this day. >> Well, what a great way to start uh
01:12:27
season 4. You go back to Ohio. >> That's right. >> I I keep telling people you're going to
01:12:32
get away from Ohio so people will start visit you know that our uh you know people taking vacations to Ohio have has
01:12:38
gone down since we started the podcast. Unfortunately, these things are happening in in everywhere. Um, and we
01:12:46
we happen to cover more Ohio cases because we know of them. Um, and but I do want to you mind I want to throw out
01:12:53
a little safety tip here, Captain. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, as our listeners know, uh, we
01:12:59
have been involved in the past and will continue to be involved with the National Center for Missing and
01:13:04
Exploited Children. Now, um, they have something that that has recently come out called it's a safety app. It's a
01:13:12
free it's a free app to download for iTunes or iPhone and Android devices. >> Um, and it's called Safety Central. So,
01:13:20
I won't go through the entire bit of it, but I recommend if you have children or
01:13:24
if you're a grandparent, uh you know that you you put this on your phone and it's it's basically it's an
01:13:31
identification kit for the children that are special to you, for the children that you know and that you care about.
01:13:38
And you're going to be able to put important information about each child on there as well as a photo. Uh we had
01:13:45
discussed earlier if there is a disappearance of a child. Unfortunately, you know, hopefully nobody ever has to
01:13:51
experience this, but if if you find yourself in this situation, you do not want to lose valuable minutes and hours
01:13:57
trying to find these things for the police. Now, thankfully, we live in a digital age, so there's a lot more
01:14:03
pictures being taken of people. So, >> and not only pictures, but videos now. >> Yeah. So, it's a it's more common place
01:14:09
today that you would have an updated photo. But what your ID kit will do, again, this is safety central. uh get
01:14:16
the free app, but what it will do is it will remind you every so often to update
01:14:21
the photo of the child that you >> and all that stuff. >> Yeah. So, I recommend checking that out.
01:14:27
>> And like always, if we get any new information on this case, we'll dive right back into it. And uh if you know
01:14:33
anything, right, either you can contact us at the blog on uh true crimegar.com. And uh what's this week's recommended
01:14:43
reading? Well, and also if you want to remain anonymous, you can contact Crimestoppers. You know, they're looking
01:14:48
for information as well. Recommended reading for this week is The Maniac in the Bushes, true crimes and disasters
01:14:54
from the streets of Cleveland and more tales of Cleveland. Woe by John Stark Bellamy II. Um, this is an interesting
01:15:03
book. Uh, it does it does talk about the Beverly Potts disappearance. Um, there's
01:15:08
lots of photos in here. people like the the different photos for uh the true crime stuff, but there also is the uh
01:15:16
torso killer is covered in this book as well, which has been a case that's been recommended to us oh about a million
01:15:23
times. Um so if you want to check out uh more cases from Ohio, specifically the Cleveland area, check out the Maniac in
01:15:30
the Bush Bushes by John Stark Bellamy I can do that by going to our website true
01:15:35
crimegar.com and click on the recommended page. And thank you for everybody joining us in the garage this
01:15:41
week to help us kick off season 4. We will see you right back here in the garage next week. We're going to do it
01:15:47
all over again. We're not taking a break. Make sure you tell a friend, tell 10 friends. And if you have not already,
01:15:53
subscribe to the show. >> And cheers, mates. >> That's right. Until next week, be good,
01:15:58
be kind, and don't litter. [Music] [Applause] [Music]