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[Music] so [Music] [Music] directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward would do such a thing
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what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
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[Music] skip give us give me one more time sorry if you already did but i don't think we have heard it yet the
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and i know the story has changed a couple times but what is cheyenne saying she she arrived parked where walk to
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where and we know that at 3 49 according to her story she's posting a a picture online that she says
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she took that day yeah she said she got there at 2 50. um originally said 350 but again she said
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she got there at 2 50. said that she ran into a girl she was with or knew around that had that had gotten
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there about 2 30. and that girl's name is that girl's name is believed to be sheryl
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loffler okay and uh they went to the other side of the bridge was around the bridge
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she said the picture was supposedly taken around three o'clock the girl she knows goes with her yes and
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the picture the picture was taken around three o'clock well she's on the bridge at three o'clock
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how did she not hear the girls fsg was just coming from the bridge when he saw derek about 3 15 3 20
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said he heard her heard a couple arguing under the bridge did she not hear that she's standing right on the bridge at
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three o'clock yeah and that makes absolutely no sense because she'd have a clear sight to the crime scene and she
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would obviously be able to hear something she claims not to hear or see anything
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i mean she's on the she's on the bridge in question i mean i don't i don't know i don't understand sound travels usually
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pretty well in an area like that you know in a hollow where there's where there's water and fsg
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we don't know if he says he saw cheyenne or not he never says he said he's never said he
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saw cheyenne okay that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that he didn't tell law enforcement that
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he saw her but it but as far as we know we have no no statement of him saying that he witnessed her
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or saw her and another young woman on the bridge right yeah we only we only know about
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his statement from from derrick what are your top five reasons to make dp the number one
00:03:24
person of interest um he's uh changed his story he uh looks like the second sketch he is uh
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he knew the girls he uh was at the crime scene the day of the murders admittedly he's
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again he's he's he's changed stories multiple times he injected himself into the case
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uh he changed his appearance you know and i'm going by things that that you know
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the uh law enforcement said that to look out for a bridge guy you know so those would be
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those would be the things i think that you know the five or six things like you asked
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i agree him putting himself at the scene is very difficult uh that's a that's a very
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that in itself is a hurdle i mean it works that way with every case the person who finds the body
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the last person to see a person those are always suspects uh and you lump those two in with the
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same high probability that you would a boyfriend a husband or anybody on their inner circle
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so that that's of interest he's there yeah we you know by his own words he is there and then we have someone
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else who says he was there as well sounds like we're questioning her information but
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be that as it may it sounds like he he was there second yes his story changing is
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is difficult why why put yourself there and then change your story unless it was
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necessary to uh you know keep keep some kind of false story going but i do want to throw
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out that eyewitnesses are known to lie to law enforcement if they need to protect themselves and
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if he was at that park or meeting somebody at that park to to have a affair to me that's reason
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to believe that that somebody would lie to law enforcement possibly but and i get what you're
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saying captain you're you're absolutely right about that but my my hunch here would be if if behind
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closed doors they thought that they're questioning his story they're gonna say look
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we're investigating a double homicide here we don't care if you were down there smoking a doobie or uh me hooking up
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with some girl on the side we don't we need to know what actually happened yeah if they keep
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licking and why you were there because if not then you're you're you're at the top of
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our list and that's where i go and i agree with you skip i 100 where it does appear and i'm going
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off of the words that were used by doug carter uh in the april 2019 press conference
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according to what he's saying they were absolutely shifting gears they had shift
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gears sometime before that press conference and now they were happy to announce it to the world
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specifically to the killer himself so you're right something had to have happened or they went down the wrong
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path misguided misled at some point early in the vest investigation or at least prior to april
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uh 2019 where where i have um more questions is that the the things that the things that
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could lead you to dp even early on they're all there for you it's not difficult if if what
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if what we're saying or what we're speculating is in fact true it's not difficult to see a connection
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here uh he he knows one of the victims on facebook says he knows the victims maybe
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personally or acquaintances or somehow lives lives near there he's he's there and
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and he has a person that's supposedly with him that we don't know who that person is we can't
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we nobody we don't have any information stating that there was an actual person with him i
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what i'm getting at is and i get what everybody's saying about the small town factor but
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this i mean delphi's city police have been involved carroll county has been involved the sheriff's department
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they lesanby claims that they're the lead on the on the case if you had to pick one
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but isp is there and the fbi are there very very quickly and the fbi and i don't think even
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indiana state police are going to get bamboozled by somebody that's well to do in a in a
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little town you know we've had early on in this investigation per doug carter his words are that
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over 150 officers have touched this case in some form or fashion and that's throughout
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the state of indiana uh the other thing i want to ask you about skip is the uh this was new information to me uh you
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you said gbi was involved in the investigation correct yeah in and clarify i'm not questioning that i just had not
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heard it tell the listeners and me why gbi was involved again because that's that's the
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the i'm assuming you're mentioned talking about the georgia bureau of investigation
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yes that's correct um it's not unusual for law enforcement to bring in another group as for peer review
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if they are it's like they've just the case is not developing like they thought and uh just a fresh set of eyes they
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brought them in for that and it wasn't like i said they came in and did uh looked at it looked at it from
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like it was a brand new case looked at everything from the beginning you know left and uh not long after that
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then that's when the press conference was when they changed gears uh so i think you know my point is is
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that if they came in with fresh set of eyes and and they may they may have taken the
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bias out of the investigation that hey you guys have been looking for the wrong guy because you're looking for
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rsos and serial killers and you're looking for the guy that what you think he looks like in this video
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and and in this sketch when the fact is he may not be you know and and uh that's why that's
00:09:40
why that's uh they i don't know how exactly how long they were there or were involved with it
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um i just know it was in in 2018 and maybe up until even early 2019 but that it's not unusual to bring
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somebody in like that the one thing that did change though for the state of indiana not just for
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this investigation but others i believe it was in 2018 that the state started collecting
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uh those convicted of a felony connect collecting their dna yeah and so and that's one thing that i
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think is a little unclear as far as the nationwide concept of what's going on in delphi and the investigation itself
00:10:28
is you know people keep saying well if they've got dna why didn't they pick up their guy they
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you know he would be one he has to be in a certain database right like it's not just uh if if you
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have dna but nothing to match it to you're not going to find the person that you don't you don't punch it into your
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dna machine and it spits out a name that says oh you want to go look for the crispy colonel he's somewhere in
00:10:50
columbus and here's his phone number that's not the way it works they they get a dna
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profile and if there's nothing to match it to there's nowhere to go and yeah one thing
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that definitely changed from from the information i've collected and i you know i'm i'm fallible like
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anybody else but uh this in 2018 is when they made that mandatory that if you're convicted of a
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felony in the state of indiana you submit your dna so if bridge guy whoever he may be has a felony or
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a sexual assault or anything that you know rape uh something in the state of indiana
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prior to killing the two girls on in 2017 he likely isn't in their dat any of their databases
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yeah and one thing law enforcement said also is that you know it appears this guy hasn't committed any crimes
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so that's right that tells me that maybe the evidence they have with the partial
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fingerprint or the dna doesn't have enough markers maybe they don't have enough to identify
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maybe they maybe they have enough to rule out but not identify right and you have because you
00:12:06
have multiple agencies working this case and yes they're working hand in hand and
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they're working together and i and i do think that they've done a lot of good work even though we sit here
00:12:15
and speculate as to who may have done this and why it's not been solved all these years later you know you have
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one agency that says yeah we do have fingerprints and we do have dna in this case
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uh but then when another agency is interviewed they're a little more clear saying yeah
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i've we do have that we just don't know if it's suspect dna or suspect fingerprints we know that
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we have fingerprints in dna that does not belong to abby or libby that was found at or near
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the where we found the bodies uh we just we can't say until somebody's arrested and
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charged we can't say if it belongs to the killer or not yeah and i think again i think the time frame
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plays a lot into that about when when that question was answered because i think they
00:13:00
were a little more forthcoming early on but i think once they once they realized that this
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guy has this guy follows the case is involved maybe in social media including forums and things that about
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the case listens to stuff like this i think that's when that's when they decided to
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shut it down because they didn't want they didn't i think they believed that he has been doing that all along and was
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possibly the reason for changing stories is because he he was getting information that they
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were putting out and changing to whatever you know him but you know what whatever
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was to his benefit so they shut off they decided they just shut all the information down
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and i don't blame them and and going back to you know law enforcement i think they've done a great job i think
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i know there's a lot of people out there who say oh law enforcement doesn't have
00:13:51
anything and and they've done a terrible job they screwed it up totally i don't think that
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at all uh do i think the mistake was i think yeah i think i think they've admitted tobe said mistakes have
00:14:03
been made which we try to try to rush to to solve this he also said that they didn't identify
00:14:11
an individual as a suspect early on to me that's a pretty telling statement yeah that's basically saying that we
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identified them as something else other than a suspect exactly well and to to really kind of
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credit the work that they've been doing you know we did say or skip you said they may have been told by gbi hey
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you've been you've been looking in the wrong direction you've been looking for a
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serial killer or a serial offender or a sexual predator and but but to to be clear and to to credit
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isp and those involved they didn't seek out daniel nations daniel nations be he came onto their radar because of
00:15:02
you know violent illegal activities that he has uh been doing and then they're going oh
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by the way he was he was here uh at that time and and should be somebody that should be uh definitely looked at and i
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i one thing that i really get a little angry about uh in this case and some people's
00:15:23
perception of the investigation itself i've heard several people talk about tobe lesnbe like he's some kind of
00:15:31
don knotts sheriff out of uh mayberry and that's not the vibe i get at all i've uh i've i get their county newspaper
00:15:41
he has a weekly column in there that discusses different uh pieces and parts of law
00:15:46
enforcement and the job that they do as sheriffs as the the protectors of carroll county uh he's very much dialed
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in i i wish people would would open up their minds a little bit and um tobe leslie to me comes off
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skip and maybe you'll agree with me and i know the captain does but he comes off to me as somebody that
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wants to say more to the public about the case the evidence and the investigation
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but in being respectful with the people and agencies that they have partnered with in this investigation
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i think he's politely holding back yeah i would agree 100 i think i i always think about the the
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uh the statement he made about you know i know that voice who is that you know um that was that to me that was uh
00:16:39
it seemed like he wanted to say more there you know i think whether it's whether it's saying things
00:16:44
debate this guy or or whatever it is i agree with you i think uh i didn't i just don't understand the
00:16:50
people who say you know who who ripped law enforcement for um they got if let's see look if they got if they got
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led astray by somebody and there's uh that's not the worst thing that's ever happened i can promise
00:17:02
you you know and they and that's why again i go back to carter saying at the 2008 press conference that were
00:17:08
just beginning i think that they realized that all that stuff they learned was all based on false
00:17:12
information um and so going forward here's our new guy here's the car we believe he was in
00:17:22
we believe he's definitely local and that go and that and that's in in direct contrast with
00:17:27
what they what they said originally you know i mean why would you be putting billboards
00:17:31
all over the country if you thought the guy was local they were just looking for the
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wrong guy now why was that i think i know but other people have you know other people having opinions as
00:17:44
well but they were they were looking for the wrong guy and now they're now i believe they they're zeroed in on who
00:17:50
they oh who they should be well and i think that there was a chance that they were you know with the
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um the businesses and the the traffic through that area would lead them to because
00:18:03
when when you've worked let's say you've worked in carroll county law enforcement
00:18:07
your whole adult career a child abduction murder is one half of one percent of the
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homicides each year in this country that very rare so most most law enforcement uh officers and even an agency as a
00:18:25
whole you could have a 20 30 year career and never experience it never be involved in
00:18:32
an investigation like that and if you know if i woke up tomorrow and there never
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was another child abduction homicide ever again praise god but um it's it's a rare crime
00:18:45
and i think that you're the gut reaction of most people regardless of delphi carroll county
00:18:51
indiana or columbus ohio the florida panhandle or texas or california regardless of where you're
00:18:57
talking about other than like new york city or los angeles or chicago most people the gut
00:19:03
reaction is it it had to be somebody that came in and did this to us did this to one of us and left and
00:19:12
you're exactly right i mean it was the next day as soon as they knew as soon as they found the girls at noon
00:19:18
and the the the release from police has always been we knew we knew very quickly their words were
00:19:27
very quickly i have to believe you could replace that with immediately that this was a homicide
00:19:34
and what backs that up is that within that hour three three uh roadblock checkpoints are set
00:19:44
up at least three that i found where they're interviewing drivers and passengers and stopping vehicles and
00:19:51
one of the statements they had was that that day they uh spoke to at least 600 people in
00:19:58
cars yeah and you're right and that they were looking for someone that would want to leave the area that
00:20:05
may not may have just came into the area days before now uh one thing that we've
00:20:10
not touched on on true crime garage yet and we've covered this case a bunch and skip again thank you for your time
00:20:15
today talking with us about this case again is in regards to that nationwide manhunt which until the guy's
00:20:24
caught it's always going to be a nationwide manhunt but in regards to those billboards
00:20:29
one thing that i found incredibly interesting was that on on the billboards that were first put
00:20:34
up of the picture of of bridge guy and one thing we i like to underline too when we
00:20:40
talk about the the picture of bridge guy that is the best photo that is the best
00:20:45
video that have of bridge guy so to think otherwise is is silliness but they were posting the
00:20:52
picture of bridge guy on these billboards and early on it said you know do you know this man
00:21:00
last seen february 13 2017 2 30 p.m which i find to be incredibly interesting because we know the snapchat
00:21:11
photo was posted there were two captains asked if they were you know if they were taking more photos or
00:21:16
whatnot police would know that they found libby's phone and they know they were analyzing the family would know
00:21:20
that but that that has never been released so we people just speculate about that
00:21:26
and and so we know that she posted two photos and the stamp that we get on those is 207 pm
00:21:35
and they would know based off of the video from finding her phone and analyzing the phone
00:21:42
when the video was taken and we've already said based off of uh technology what what it
00:21:48
tells us in regards to the sun and the the bridge and the shadows and whatnot it's believed that the abduction of the
00:21:55
girls took place between 2 20 and 2 40 p.m that afternoon very interestingly enough
00:22:03
those billboards say 2 30 p.m i almost have to wonder is is the time stamp on that video or on
00:22:11
her phone of that video 2 30 p.m when he's last seen on the video because the other statement we have is from i
00:22:19
believe it's from anna who is uh abby's mother it says you know becky mike and anna watched they were allowed to watch
00:22:30
and hear the video and anna says that she could hear audio after there was she could no longer see anything
00:22:39
so at some point that video goes it goes dark it's it's just recording blackness maybe it's you know
00:22:48
doc maybe libby's holding it right up against her leg maybe she put it in a pocket
00:22:52
um as bridge guy got closer but there was audio that could be heard and that's where we get the down the hill from
00:23:00
as well so i wonder if that video is and they they put 2 30 p.m because they that's
00:23:08
the time stamp of that video that's a that's a good point um it would make sense you know because
00:23:13
when the the uh picture was uh put up at 207 they weren't all the way across the bridge
00:23:19
i think they were about maybe two-thirds or about halfway so i would have taken them a little and
00:23:24
you don't see you don't see him in the background coming yet so it would have made sense that they would
00:23:29
have kept walking going back toward the end of the bridge because that they were
00:23:32
at the end of the bridge when they were filming him so that would make sense time-wise also
00:23:37
um makes that's one of the reasons i said 2 30 to 3 30 underneath that bridge because from what
00:23:43
i gather from this guy who i locally i know who said that they that law enforcement knows
00:23:48
that bg was around 20 minutes after derrick had gotten there so if they know that
00:23:54
then they know he was around till about 3 35 approximately um so say that again say that again that law enforcement
00:24:02
knows he's on there were several things he told me that that everybody wasn't privy to one of
00:24:07
the things was that they know law enforcement knows bg was there until 20 minutes after derrick had had gotten
00:24:13
there so he got there about 3 15 that puts bg there until 3 35 now he didn't explain how they know that i'm
00:24:21
a guest i'm guessing it probably had something to do with them seeing him leave at us you know
00:24:26
because if you remember early on there was a law enforcement asked if anybody saw
00:24:32
anybody walking along the hoosier heartland highway that afternoon with a duffel bag
00:24:39
well if you parked at the cps building and if you even if you left the bridge and went through the woods and
00:24:46
and exited there you the the the cps building sits right in between highway 300 and the hoosier heartland highway okay
00:24:55
and you and you have it's a wide open view so if he was walking from where the where the trees start to there
00:25:02
and somebody saw him that very likely could have been who they saw walking from there to the cps building
00:25:10
you know so because they would have seen him they would have thought he was walking along the hoosier
00:25:14
heartland highway but he's actually walking or coming from the woods but that's that's somebody who where somebody saw
00:25:20
him walking so i think that's a possibility that that's how they know uh that time they just put
00:25:26
it together from how long it would take him to get from the crime scene to to that area
00:25:47
[Music] oh [Music] [Music] and skip you know the witnesses or the people that were there
00:26:13
better than than i do so while we have you on the phone here i want to make sure
00:26:18
that i ask you this um there was a statement and this plays along what exactly what we're talking
00:26:24
with right now there was a statement that i found early on that said a woman i couldn't find much more about this i
00:26:34
couldn't find you know the name of this woman but a woman who said that she saw a man
00:26:39
leaving the cemetery that afternoon and i i've been looking through my notes here this morning trying to find if i
00:26:49
if i wrote down a more exact time other than that afternoon and i i can't find uh a time that i put with
00:26:56
that so one thing that you know one thing that i found to be very interesting in this case but
00:27:03
i do this in every case and but is especially in this one you know we we're analyzing what doug carter
00:27:09
was saying at the 2019 press conference under a microscope but you do that because that's not
00:27:18
doug carter just getting up there and riffing you know that's not just him talking off the cuff that is a
00:27:26
statement that was pieced together very carefully by multiple people in a room together
00:27:33
agreeing on what we're going to be saying now we do have carter who does later say
00:27:37
there are a couple things that he threw in there himself but the gent but the basis of it is a
00:27:44
statement that was put together by the investigating collectively by the investigative
00:27:48
agencies now i have to believe knowing what we know about john douglas and the fbi and
00:27:54
uh things that they've done during his career in roy hazel's woods career and robert
00:28:00
ressler's career that those words were probably pieced together very much with the help
00:28:07
of the fbi or with their at least with their advice so when looking at words and in how we
00:28:15
choose to put out certain words and certain statements regarding this case the investigation and such the evidence
00:28:25
to hear a woman said she saw a man leaving the cemetery that afternoon very interesting and it
00:28:36
goes back to what you were talking about with the car at the cps building notice the witness doesn't say she saw a
00:28:44
vehicle or a man driving a vehicle leaving the cemetery which we know there were
00:28:49
parking spaces there she says she saw a man that to me implies a single individual male
00:28:58
individual on foot leaving the cemetery that afternoon and just just like you were saying skip
00:29:05
about the um they were asking for a driver you know that i believe i'm gonna try to
00:29:12
get as yeah i'm gonna try to get as close to verbatim as i can based off of memory but
00:29:18
they're asking they said if you parked a car there that day or you know someone parked there that day
00:29:26
we want to hear from you but they start off the statement with saying uh we are looking for the driver of or
00:29:32
if you know the driver who parked at the which again we're really we're really kind of
00:29:40
analyzing this and being very suspicious about everything but it almost sounds like
00:29:48
we have we have there's at least some thought here that we think you may have been driving somebody else's vehicle
00:29:55
yeah the exact jack statement was we're seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked
00:30:01
at the old cps dcs building welfare building in the city of delphi that was abandoned on the
00:30:06
east side of county road 300. so yeah they're obviously they're asking yeah i agree they're you know asking
00:30:12
about the driver so it seems it seems to uh make sense that they would know what who the car or
00:30:17
the what the car is and who the car belongs to you know in kind of cross-referencing
00:30:21
information here with them saying we believe this person is either was either local at the time or has local
00:30:27
ties to delphi you almost have to wonder did somebody did somebody see a plate and it was an
00:30:35
indiana plate maybe they don't have the plate number but they recall yeah it was an indiana
00:30:40
license plate yeah i mean it's definitely possible i i think i think i find it interesting that
00:30:45
that's the first thing they they uh that they lead the press conference off that way you know
00:30:51
as the attention getter you know it's well and it's also weird like first impressions are everything right
00:30:57
your first impression and your last impression and it's it starts off with with that's
00:31:02
the information we're seeking oh by the way we're going to be giving you some more information which is
00:31:07
i i don't i'm not going to pretend to be you know somebody that understands how you should
00:31:13
deliver things in the best way to get what you want from the people you are addressing but it almost felt
00:31:20
like when you're releasing a new sketch and then you're releasing a little piece
00:31:24
of a video and telling the public that you're changing directions in your investigation
00:31:28
i felt like you know the captain and i watched that press conference together when it when it went down
00:31:34
that day and it almost felt to me like if i would have walked out onto the streets like family feud and interviewed
00:31:40
100 people i feel like 99 of them would have forgotten about the whole vehicle parked thing by the end of that
00:31:49
press conference yeah but not that suspect right yeah that's the thing i mean who who was he
00:31:55
who was he addressing that part too that's why i think maybe he was it was he was letting the guy hey this this is
00:32:01
the part that had us confused but we figured it out well and if this suspect that you're
00:32:06
talking about dp is bridge guy then he's brash and if the rumors are true about the
00:32:14
staging of the crime scene and some of the horrific stuff that i've heard rumored to be
00:32:21
you know they say he has a shred of decency left to come forward maybe he doesn't but maybe somebody
00:32:31
shelby cheryl or the cheyenne even though her stories haven't lined up and maybe they could come forward
00:32:39
and have some piece of information and again law enforcement has said over and over just
00:32:46
one piece of information is all we need and then we get this guy and if you have any doubt that that
00:32:54
you're covering for this person if you have any thought in your head that this individual
00:33:00
dp is responsible for these murders you have you owe it to yourself you owe it to the
00:33:06
community you owe it to those two girls you over owe it to abby and libby to come forward
00:33:12
and and talk to police and tell them the true story why wouldn't you come forward it's i
00:33:18
mean just again it's hard to say why somebody they don't come forward or whatever like i said there's there's a
00:33:23
lot of reasons um it could be i would i would suspect to at least give them the benefit of the
00:33:28
doubt that it was probably innocent originally they didn't realize what they were giving a
00:33:32
an alibi for now i would say it's time it's time for them to uh to come clean and uh and tell what they
00:33:42
tell what they know you know and what about dp's girlfriend it's like again you probably have some
00:33:49
information that you could share with law enforcement and why aren't you doing that one
00:33:54
he's saying that he was there cheating on you so what kind of scumbag is that and and is
00:34:00
that all you think you deserve in this world as a guy that cheats on you or a guy
00:34:04
that lies to you is that all you think you deserve maybe you should think that you deserve better
00:34:11
and come forward and talk to the cops and tell them what you know because maybe you're the missing link
00:34:16
and you owe that to yourself to your child you owe that to abby you owe that to libby
00:34:22
i did want i did want to go back to clarify one thing though about hit you about
00:34:26
bg following the case and i think that's a cause i think that's a crucial part because i think the post-crime
00:34:31
activity in this case is is is kind of is it has a lot to do with the reason it led me to this was
00:34:38
one of the things carter said not too long in a television interview not too long after
00:34:44
the press conference he said i think the killer is following this investigation very
00:34:48
closely he said when we and then they asked him about releasing the second schedule he said
00:34:52
when we decided that through the information we received that we were going to release the second sketch
00:34:57
i don't believe the individual knew we were going to do that so it was really really important i
00:35:02
think he was probably there or watching simply because he thought we were on the wrong path
00:35:07
i mean carter i mean he's basically telling you what you need to know there i mean he's basically
00:35:13
saying the killer thought they why would the killer think they're on the wrong path
00:35:20
hmm yeah because because he let him that maybe because he let him down the wrong
00:35:24
path because he pointed him in that direction i mean you mentioned you mentioned
00:35:28
earlier nick that something seems simple there are things about this case that that are very
00:35:32
simple but there's also it's also very complex in the way in the in the uh i think in the post-crime uh
00:35:39
stuff that's going on with all the misinformation and and misdirection uh and false stuff
00:35:45
that's been put out there and i think most of the stuff you've seen out there has been kind of
00:35:49
orchestrated i don't think it's just been by chance of people random people following the
00:35:54
case i think there's uh look the guy did a good job for two years of keeping keeping him off his tray off his tail
00:36:01
off his trail they they've it's uh now that they're on it maybe maybe he's trying to do it through
00:36:07
social media yeah you what you're saying is i'll expand on that a little bit to to kind of fill in some of the blanks
00:36:14
there but what you're saying overall is that we would be foolish to believe that at some point bg is not is not only
00:36:22
listening reading watching what he can find on tv and on the internet or these garage podcasts whoever would be dumb
00:36:32
enough to do one of those but um he's not only doing that but he could actively be throwing in
00:36:38
weird statements uh posting things like one of the victims was pregnant you know
00:36:45
there was this found at the crime scene or one of the searchers said they saw this that day
00:36:50
uh he could throw any of these things if if he if what you are saying is correct
00:36:56
skip and you know people some people are going to listen to this and they're going to
00:37:00
they're not going to like you they're not going to like me or the captain for having this conversation but the one
00:37:05
reason why i wanted to have this conversation with you and i hadn't spoke with you until until
00:37:10
right now until today was the theory was interesting on its face and it remains interesting after i speak
00:37:17
with you not just because of the points that you've brought up in the the interesting angles and things that you
00:37:24
presented here but also you are not one of these you're not one of these crazies that go
00:37:30
this is what happened i know it all this is how it went down and not willing to believe anything else and
00:37:38
that's why i like talking with you today and i appreciate you for being that way because so many
00:37:42
people with this case and other cases have decided for whatever reason they know exactly what happened
00:37:48
and you can't tell them otherwise and anybody that says otherwise is a complete idiot
00:37:54
and i like to remind those people that if you were right then then why is it not solved we won't know until
00:38:04
it's solved and there's no harm in having these conversations and doing these types of exercises
00:38:11
when something is not solved there's no nothing wrong with looking at things from a different angle under a different
00:38:18
light from time to time and just asking the question why and you've done a great job of of coming up
00:38:26
with this theory and and and piecing it together well it's a pretty simple idea if you
00:38:35
claim that you're there and then your story has changed multiple times then what is the reason for lying
00:38:44
and by definition this eyewitness should then turn into a suspect this eyewitness should turn
00:38:51
into a person of interest and when you look at this case for the last four years
00:38:57
every person of interest that has brought been brought to the table no matter what crime they did or didn't
00:39:02
do what you could never prove with any of those persons of interest is that they were there the day uh
00:39:10
that they were there that day at that bridge at that time frame uh and were capable of of those murders yeah there
00:39:20
there's a lot of stuff that we hadn't had a chance to go over just because of time but but
00:39:25
um but like we've talked about before like having you be available to people on the blog
00:39:32
absolutely i'd be i'd be happy to answer any questions feel people feel people in on any uh gaps they have
00:39:38
okay and just and there's like i said there's more nuance obviously in a case like this than
00:39:43
um that we were able to talk about today you know i agree with with the captain about you know the
00:39:49
basic things there about you know why you lie to law enforcement why do you you know law enforcement tells us that
00:39:54
this guy's following the case and they tell us that that there's a change in changing
00:39:59
the reason for the change and all that so there's a lot there's a lot out there and like i said it is simple but it's
00:40:06
complex you know we didn't talk about things like motive and all that kind of stuff
00:40:10
but you know it's uh hopefully the hopefully the right person will hear uh and hopefully the right person will
00:40:17
will change their mind on what they think is the the right thing to do well and you know
00:40:22
with other cases of todd kohlhepp for instance he went into superbike gunned down a bunch of people killed
00:40:30
them later he took hostage killed the hostage's boyfriend or husband and he was he was a felon before that he was
00:40:40
a convicted felon before that well everything i just mentioned to you are crimes that involved
00:40:46
handguns and firearms and and he should not have had those and we said on our show when we covered his case
00:40:53
you know it would be why is law enforcement not pursuing the person that gave him
00:40:58
or sold him these guns in some backwoods deal because he's not allowed to to own them
00:41:04
that person has some accountability in kohlhepp's crimes and it was probably of course it wasn't at our doing we
00:41:12
didn't have anything to do with it with two two guys in a garage but it was months later eight months later they
00:41:17
arrested the person that sold them the guns here in this situation you have the same
00:41:22
thing if there is somebody that is providing this false alibi or false narrative for
00:41:28
having seen things or or not seen things on that day in february in 2017 you need to come clean with that now
00:41:37
because there will be an aftermath this bridge guy will be identified caught and convicted and when that
00:41:45
happens you're the next one your your butt's on the fire next so you're fine now yeah i know you
00:41:52
probably are sitting here listening this going what do you mean i'm fine it's been four years nick
00:41:57
no you're fine now because they don't know who bg is as soon as they know who he is that's
00:42:02
when you're that's when your feet will be held to the flames so go tell them what you know now or if
00:42:08
you if you made something up or if you just wanted to be a part of it because it's something and you want to
00:42:14
be something there's yes it's it's embarrassing yes there is some shame that comes along
00:42:19
with that but at the end of the day you can know that you did the right thing and you can
00:42:24
know that you you do you no longer can be held accountable because you've you've you've said what
00:42:31
the truth is now skip i don't want to get into any details but again my own curiosity
00:42:40
and kind of piecing together where i think what your overall story would be i've
00:42:46
always believed and i still do and will until we until we have all the answers that
00:42:53
this was a sexually motivated abduction and i want to leave it at that i want to be very clear about
00:42:58
my thoughts that i i've always believed that this was a sexually motivated abduction it sounds to me like you
00:43:05
without again without getting into details and going too far down any roads here other avenues
00:43:13
it sounds to me like you feel this was a little more targeted at least one of the victim was was a
00:43:19
target and this possibly was a personal cause homicide yes and and the other victim
00:43:27
may just be collateral damage unfortunately yeah sad okay it really is what's sad both
00:43:33
both but of course yes yeah i think i think you know a lot of people obviously a lot
00:43:38
of people are following this case and there's a lot of webs loose and i think a lot of a lot of those people have
00:43:43
gotten things right i think there's a drug component here i think there's a revenge component
00:43:48
but i don't think they're exact that they're exactly the aspects of what people think they are
00:43:52
unfortunately this may fall back come back fall back on a family member in terms of not that
00:43:59
they were involved in the crime at all the source of this personal vendetta may have originated there and i think
00:44:05
that's unfortunate i hope that doesn't go into have anything to do whether it's crime is solved or not but yeah i think
00:44:12
i think it's more i do think it's uh there is a drug component like i said in a in a revenge aspect but it but it's
00:44:18
more personal than that [Music] join our discussion if you have questions for skip he will be available he'll be
00:44:36
answering questions on our blog all week so make sure if you have any questions about the information he's putting out
00:44:45
you can ask him there at truecrimegarage.com colonel do we have any recommended reading for this week this
00:44:52
week captain we are recommending alligator candy by david kushner this is from award-winning journalist
00:44:59
and regular contributor to rolling stone magazine david kushner gives us alligator candy a memoir about
00:45:06
family survival and the unwavering power of love in 1973 david's older brother was
00:45:12
murdered and decades later david found himself unsatisfied with his memories of this tragic
00:45:18
life-defining moment so he decided to revisit the episode through the eyes of a reporter
00:45:24
this is one of the best books that i've read in a while is available in all forms but the audio
00:45:30
version with a brilliant performance by bronson pinchot is particularly good check out alligator
00:45:36
candy by david kushner and until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
00:46:16
you