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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you're
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and germs here he is the rock and roll
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Outlaw that's right I'm talking about your captain yeah don't be a fart sniffer it's good to be seen it's good
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to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are very lucky to still have
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some Black Tuesday Grand Reserve 2020 from the brewery this is a massively complex Imperial Stout which is aged for
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two years and bourbon barrels and then an additional year in rye whiskey barrels garage grade 4 and a five bottle
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caps and let's give some praise and cheers to our friends that helped us out this week first up a double barrel
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cheers and thanks to Mary and Luke listening in Beecher Illinois a big shout out to Laura and Union Grove
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Alabama and here we have a cheers to Tonda in Guthrie Oklahoma and a big we like your jib to Mark in Austin Texas
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here's another double barrel cheers to Jacob and Josette and Loganville Georgia and last but certainly not least we have
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Carolyn W in Lincoln Nebraska everyone we just mentioned they went to True Crime garage.com and helped us out with
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this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah b w e w r u n pure Ron guys be patient we're behind on the beer
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run so we will get to you when we get to you and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime directly to the Killer who may be in this room
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[Music] what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
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murdered two little girls only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music]
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we will not stop Doug Carter and he has taken the stand we'll take a listen in in the Delphi Community how grateful I
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am you um you inspire people you don't even understand when you don't even understand why
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information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours
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of extraordinary investigative efforts by Delphi Carroll County the FBI the Indiana State Police and countless other
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agencies this community surrounded us some 26 months ago and you did everything you could to
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support us but most importantly you surrounded the family of these two little girls
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gosh I'll never forget it after you hear what we're going to release today I'm going to ask for your
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continued support your continued understanding your empathy and compassion um as we move forward uh to find out who
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did this and we will we're seeking The public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked
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at the old CPS DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300
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North next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between the hours of noon to five on February 14 2017.
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if you were parked there or know who was parked there please contact the officers
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at the command post foreign at the Delphi city building we are releasing additional portions of
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the audio recording from that day please keep in mind the person talking is one person
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and is the person on the bridge with the girls this is not two different people speaking
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please listen to it very very carefully we are also releasing video recovered from Libby's phone
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this video has never before been previously released the video shows a suspect walking on the
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bridge when you see the video watch this watch the person's mannerisms as they walk
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watch the mannerisms as he walks do you recognize the mannerisms as big someone that you might know
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remember he is walking on the former railroad bridge because of the deteriorated condition of
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the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties
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during the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary
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as of today the result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you
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will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls
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we also believe this person is from Delphi currently or as previously lived here
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visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here we believe this person is currently
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between the age range of 18 and 40. but might appear younger than its true age directly
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to the Killer who may be in this room we believe you are hiding in plain sight for more than two years
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you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigated strategy but we have
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we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you we know that this is about power to you
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and you want to know what we know when one day you will a question to you what will those closest to you think of
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they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls two children only a coward would do such
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a thing we are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least they know
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because how different you are since the murders we try so hard to understand how a
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person could do something like this to two children to two children I recently watched a movie called The
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Shack and there's also a book that talks so well about evil about death and about eternity
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to the murderer I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left and I can assure you
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that how you left them in that Woods is not it's not what they're experiencing today
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to the family I hope that you all will give them some time because we're going to be asking that
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there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks and I hope you understand why
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the family found out about this about this information this morning I just want the family to know that
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when I take my last breath on this Earth I'll be thinking of them there's going to be a tremendous amount
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of questions I know that I know that I'm never in my career have I stood in front of something like this
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please be patient with us please uh we're just beginning we are just now beginning and I can tell you on behalf
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of the sheriff and the police chief so many other partners um that have stood with us over this period
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of time that we will not stop directly to the Killer who may be in this room be a cow wouldn't do such a thing
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what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
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only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music] we will not stop [Music]
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all right me and the colonel are back in the garage talking with skip Jansen about his Person of Interest DP and we
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will not stop we've been working this case since the beginning spending hours upon hours outside of the garage talking
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with people and that's how we really got hooked up with Skip and his Person of Interest there's so much to it that
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makes sense and so much that is still confusing but one of the things that's confusing is why would they go with his
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sketch above a sketch that they had beforehand I think I think it was a lot of it had
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to do what they saw on on the video they thought maybe they saw it they saw an older guy and I think it's it's
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important to remember that law enforcement was really emphasizing you know about the younger face you know pay
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attention to is what his body is moves is all of his all of that not not his face I think the the video is not a good
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representation of that and but law enforcement early on thought they were looking at somebody who looked more like
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the end up being the first sketch than the second sketch yeah I think when you've seen the picture of BG or you see
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the video of BG your mind goes towards an older gentleman you see the second sketch you go wow that is not anything
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like I pictured this person to be way younger I think people still believe that you know I think they see it in
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their mind that they that they see an older person they and they can't get that they can't they can't change that
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they it's just kind of burned in their in their brain yeah I still think people are baffled by this case because in 2019
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press conference they released the image of a way younger looking individual saying he's between 18 and 40. right
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well and that at that point that was when DP recanted his story and said that yeah maybe he didn't see that guy maybe
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he saw flannel shirt guy because he realized that final short guy was in close proximity to where he was during
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the time on the trails or said he was so but he you know but again the scarf to me is the big takeaway if he saw
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somebody with a scarf that he claimed was BG then now you're saying that you may have seen FSU what was FSG wearing a
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scarf as well he would have had to have been I've never heard any evidence that FSU was wearing a scarf that day so I
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mean that again just something else that doesn't really line up with what he's saying yeah
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he constantly is changing his story uh so confusing but also the picture they released in 2019 the predominant feature
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to me is the hair and there's rumors that he changes his appearance after that but but what is DP doing between
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2017 and 2019 uh before that press conference oh I think that he thinks he's he's gotten away with he's Scott
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framing you got a you've got a uh sketch out there that looks nothing like him FBI said one of the things he this part
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might do is change his appearance um well he wouldn't have any reason to change his appearance if the sketch
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didn't look anything like him right he actually did change his appearance after the 2019 press conference and the new
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sketch came out shaved his head grew a beard so that would fall in line more with what they were what they were
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talking about well I also feel like like at the 2019 press conference when they come out with the information about the
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vehicle and asking for the driver it's almost like they know who they're talking about yeah I think I think there
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was a lot there were probably questions about that vehicle and who was in that vehicle and you know when it was there
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and who drove it there and all that originally and I think they probably let off with that because they wanted him to
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know that they they figured out how that all you know how it all went down and that they had been lied to about that I
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think that I think that's one thing I think that's one thing that people are misunderstanding about one of the things
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about the case is that law enforcement I think was led astray for the first couple of years in this case because of
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all this because of all the misdirection and false information they've admitted that there were Alibis that didn't
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didn't add up this newspaper articles about it and so when you see that is that where you go hey here's this guy
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online he's saying I'm I'm an eyewitness here's oh here's the people I was with oh no no that's not who I was with us
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with some other people right so now we got a guy online saying I'm an eyewitness I was there but he's changing
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his story but then his Alibis quote unquote his Alibis would be changing their story as
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well and then you see that happening online and then you see this language being used by police is that what sparks
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you to go I think this guy should be a person of interest absolutely yeah I mean you know giving the law enforcement
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false information is a reason people do it I mean it's uh if you come forward your the expectation is you're telling
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the truth there's you know there's there's a reason you're trying to send him down One path and so yeah that's to
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answer your question yeah that's exactly why I looked into him as a person of interest so you think 2019 they're
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directly talking to your Person of Interest DP can you explain that a little bit more I think I think a lot of
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things I think just about everything they said in there you know the fact that somebody this guy had been has been
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following the case and that's that's one another thing is that I think one of the
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reasons law enforcement has been so skittish about about releasing stuff is not because they don't have anything or
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not because you know they're doing it for another reason law enforcement isn't releasing information because they know
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this guy is following it and using that information to his benefit okay that and
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that's that's pretty obvious so that's one of the things that I think that um you know the once the release of the
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sketch was out there you know that everything changed this guy stopped this guy was not talking anymore he uh you
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know didn't seem you know so eager to get want to get his story out there but I think everything they said in it was
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very pointed and at particularly at uh at one individual and they can't get over the fact that after this press
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conference where they won they're turning in a new direction or taking a new Direction but they're putting the
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whole conference to the killer this is calling out the Killer and then to have this person of interest change their
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appearance after the press conference I have a real hard time getting over that yeah yeah exactly and his his hair was
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uh you know I Know sketch is not a photo but his hair was would have been similar
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before he shaved it to what you what you saw in the sketch when when do you do you know when he started pulling away
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from online chats and not not long after not long after that one of the exact day
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but not long after the uh press conference you know you mentioned or you asked earlier about what some of the
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things that were said I think that you know when they said directly to the killer you know might be in this room
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you know we believe you're hiding in plain sight and the part about you never thought we would shift gears to a
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different uh investigative strategy right that that goes to what I said about thinking he thought he was he got
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away with it you never thought you know they knew that he knew there was another
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sketch but you know he never thought that they were going to change to that and I think that was just I would think
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that was them making him aware that uh you know kind of The Jig Is up you know they also said that you know they've
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likely interviewed him we know he went and talked to law enforcement yeah uh he was making some statements about talking
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with law enforcement online he stayed online that he went there and talked to law enforcement a couple of times he
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stated he was there trying to help him that was his uh that was the word he used he was trying to say he was a good
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Samaritan just trying to help out you know so again changes the story he was there
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uh again changing the story multiple times but changing his appearance we're always told to look out for that
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and then we have a eyewitness that is now lawyering up and pulling away from social media he certainly
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hasn't been making any social media comments or anything like that like he was early in the case well I heard his
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name brought up with a couple people that I've been investigating the case with and back in the day he had his you
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could see everything on his social media you could see his post you can see who he was friends with he seems to have
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very you know very much so gone dark on the internet you know you can't find much about this individual you can't see
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anything you can't see anything online about him at all it's almost like he went dark well and plus he's a he's an
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I.T person he actually when he was a sophomore junior in high school he designed the County's website yeah it
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seems like he has a talent in this field which you have told me personally that you think that's the reason why there's
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been so much misinformation from the beginning maybe he had access to things that other people didn't
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but is this possibly the older individual that one of them was talking to online and and is he the reason for
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the scrubbing of the cell phone can you explain that a little bit well she let me basically scrubbed her phone rebooted
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it restarted reset it said she didn't have some glitches maybe that's true maybe it's not maybe uh maybe she had
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been talking with somebody online certainly someone with computer skills would know the reason to you know why
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you would why you would uh reset your phone like that to get rid of any information or or any trail of people
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you've been talking with well one of the things that I brought up to in one of our discussions is
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we know that SnapChat photos were being posted we know that one was posted at roughly I think
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207 right I believe is the time but yep there's no mention about did they take a
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couple pictures beforehand and post those did they take a couple pictures after those and post those
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we're not privy to that information I'm assuming if people were saying well they
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were walking on the bridge and talking and taking pictures and they were at the the park for a
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while already I'm assuming that there was a couple Snapchats already uploaded but that
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doesn't matter if you are following them then you'd be able to do a search and you would have seen their avatars at the
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park correct that's right yeah and basically if you're in Delphi even some of the furthest points you're
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talking about a 15 to 20 minute drive to get there right so did this person of interest
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was he there uh like law enforcement says if that car isn't connected to the killer at 12 or 1 o'clock maybe because
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maybe it was set up that way or maybe it's a situation where the person was tracking them through Snapchat
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yeah it's that's yeah it's very possible he would uh and then you know like you said
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he would be just a minute's drive a short minutes drive away from being able to to uh access the bridge from anywhere
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you know in that area so well we know that GP knew their family they they knew the victims yeah yeah one of the things
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he says on on social media is that he knew the girls and he had ridden the bus with him before I think he lived maybe
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half a mile but uh admitted to knowing the family yeah I don't know how well you know I don't know how well they were
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different ages think DP at the time was 22 or 23. uh obviously he was you know seven or eight years older than Abby uh
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or Libby would have been so but we believe that DP rode the bus with Libby lived within a couple miles from them
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also DPS sister-in-law was one of their softball coaches yeah dp's brother Quentin wife
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was was Libby sophomore of the Libby softball coaches why haven't we arrested if if everything that you guys are
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saying is in fact true it doesn't seem like that difficult of a case and where I'm going with that is a
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couple of things Okay so we can we can sit here and analyze and question and speculate as to why Libby
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reset her phone but what we do what I what I want to make sure that we're really touching on is there are facts
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there are a lot of facts that are known in this case it just takes a lot of different locations and a lot of
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different places to peel them from and piece them together now in regards to her phone
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the the statement from Libby's family was that the phone was actually a factory reset that was conducted by Tara
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her aunt and the they the phone required the reset because the phone was not working properly because it was an
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iPhone 6 and everybody remembers old phones they fill up very quickly with too much stuff and they have no memory
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left and then they don't work at all and part of the reason why they had trouble
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locating the girls was that there was apps you know find my phone and and things like that on
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on the phone but because of that factory reset those apps had not been uploaded once again to the phone right so we we
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know that the factory reset happened we know that tarot was the one according to
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Libby's family was the one that conducted the factory reset that's right so that's where
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that's where I question a little bit how much was if we're if we're making if we're going to make the leap and say
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that Libby was hiding something it you're missing the fact that she asked for the factory reset no I'm not
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missing that fact I obviously she she would have had to have a conversation with somebody for it to be conducted
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she didn't do the factory reset because she didn't know how to right yeah I think that I think again
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you know she would have lost everything she lost all you know she she liked to take pictures and photographs so I think
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she would have lost all of that I think the the first question would have been you know if you're having a glitch how
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do I say how do I save all my photos and all that kind of stuff I don't want to get rid of but what we've been told is
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that she just asked for a reset I mean I'm not saying I'm not saying they're lying I'm not saying that they're lying
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I'm saying that uh I think there's a reason for the reset maybe one of the reasons other than just a glitch some a
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girl that asked you to take all her photos she would lose all that I mean that seems uh more problematic to me
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than and that factory reset happened 10 days before right that's right the other
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thing that I do want to make sure that we bring up as well is that the family has gone on the record saying that of
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course Libby was on Facebook Snapchat Twitter and Instagram and her Becky and Mike
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had her passwords as well as they were friends on all four yeah you know I don't know
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that that's that the phone is a huge piece of evidence in this case I think it it may explain the you know the fact
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that she that somebody that somebody knew she was going to be there that day or or and she had been uh speaking with
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someone but I don't know that that you know I don't because I don't think it there's anything uh absolute about it I
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don't think you can draw anything absolute coming out of you know because he you know he this guy's admitted he
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knew her admitted you know so it's not like he was uh it was that secret about that yeah and I believe at one point he
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was friends with Libby on Facebook yeah so I you know I I think again I think Nick's
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point is very valid it's like well if you just believe everything's said she reset this phone because there was a
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glitch she still yeah she would have still had to do all that stuff and maybe she said look this phone is constantly
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not working I don't care if it saves any of the stuff I just want my phone to work yeah so yeah and I want to be clear
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here I'm not challenging either one of you guys I'm just what I'm pointing out or challenging the theory itself I mean
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there could be any Mill there could be a million reasons why she wanted the there
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could be a million reasons why she wanted the phone reset all I'm trying to do as we lay out this theory is there
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again there are known facts or statements from the family and from other individuals and I want to make
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sure that we are presenting that from all sides so right we're throwing speculation here it's it's it's more
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than fair to do so because that's all we're left with at this point but along the way I am going to remind of of what
00:27:41
few facts that we do know to be or statements from the family I just want to make sure that I'm presenting those
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as we go because it'd be irresponsible to not do so uh and then the the statement in regard to Libby's phone
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from law enforcement is that uh Facebook Snapchat Twitter Instagram and all online contacts were uh things all of
00:28:05
that was accessed analyzed and all online contacts tracked down and interviewed the other thing when we talk
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about technology that's bizarre here in this case that we don't have an arrest is that we know that ISP Indiana State
00:28:20
Police did subpoena the phone records for any phone that pinged within a five mile radius of the Mona and high bridge
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uh during that time frame that day so they've got a a long list of of phones that they know
00:28:37
to have been in that area at that time yeah that'd be another reason for someone to come forward knowing their
00:28:44
phone had ping there I mean if my phone if I knew my phone was anywhere near there and it ping there I'd come forward
00:28:48
too I'd just be that that goes again toward why would you come forward right but the reason why I'm going down this
00:28:56
path is because it's sounding more and more to me like this is not a random I'm looking for any type of
00:29:06
victim here at the trail or near the bridge it sounds it's sounding more and more to
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me like this that one or both of these girls were targeted and yeah in my opinion it wasn't a good
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one is definitely targeted and for it to go down that day in this manner the perpetrator needs to know that they're
00:29:28
going to be there that day and the phone is one way that he could have known as the captain has pointed out now the
00:29:36
difficult thing too here also is the um statement from law enforcement in regards to additional audio that was uh
00:29:48
found on the phone from that video and to be clear there's only one video the the picture we have
00:29:56
is from the video the audio we have is from that video there was one video as far as what we've been told by law
00:30:03
enforcement and the additional audio is briefly described as typical girl talk but also discussing the man and where
00:30:15
they could be going again it gets a little tricky to me if they if one of them or both of them may have
00:30:24
known the suspect right I mean don't don't they say his name or or give there I mean there's
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there's a whole mountain of reasons why we don't have somebody in handcuffs waiting on a trial right now
00:30:39
yeah well in my opinion to be honest with you is the first two years of the uh again Carter says in the press
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conference we're just beginning we're just now beginning okay that tells me let's throw away the first two years
00:30:53
somebody duped law enforcement into believing something that went down the wrong path yeah
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they went down the wrong path and gave this guy two years to cover every track to get rid of every piece of evidence
00:31:07
to get his story right to follow the case which they have uh talked about numerous times that they they know this
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guy is keeping up with the case following it and uh so that first two years plus another thing that hasn't been
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discussed is if this guy has brought in as a witness okay they're gonna they possibly have
00:31:31
some Miranda issues this guy wasn't read his rights before he uh started before he just you know when he said he went in
00:31:38
to help law enforcement that's you know is that is that are they going to have it did they does the
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district attorney think realize that and does law enforcement or the police realize that the ISP and and Carroll
00:31:51
County realized that hey we may have some Miranda problems because this guy was interviewed as a witness and
00:31:55
anything he said uh whether we think it's a lie or not can't be used because he wasn't read his rights that's very
00:32:02
interesting [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] one of the things that you talked about is well why would
00:32:45
they go with dp's version of the sketch as opposed to somebody else's and it could be the small town Factor DP
00:32:54
comes from um prominent family and you think that played into some of their decisions or also the fact that he
00:33:03
did work for the county when he was in high school yeah he like I said he designed the uh
00:33:10
County website and yeah I think that I think again I think the the uh small town aspect in this case can't be
00:33:17
overplayed I mean I think it's just it's I think it's huge and how small town people feel and it's law enforcement saw
00:33:26
a kid coming from a prominent family who everybody knows who says he's a witness
00:33:29
there's no reason for them not to believe it and I think in 2018 when the when the Georgia Bureau of Investigation
00:33:36
got involved because they wanted they were doing a peer review and wanted a fresh set of eyes
00:33:41
I think that's probably the time that they realized something doesn't add up with these stories something doesn't add
00:33:46
up with your witness story something doesn't add up about the vehicle some done that about the timeline
00:33:51
and they were able to take the bias and the Prejudice out of it that the local guys may have had that hey it couldn't
00:33:59
be this guy because like it or not that happens I mean law enforcement makes mistakes just
00:34:04
like everybody else you know they're human and when the gbi came in they were able to take the bias out of it and I
00:34:13
think that's when they realized that hey maybe the stories that we've been told we've been LED down the wrong path we've
00:34:21
been uh we've been lied to and that's and that's why then you know not shortly thereafter uh the beginning of 2019 in
00:34:28
April they were they do the press conference and release the new sketch let's get a SK again a sketch they had
00:34:33
two or three or four days after the murders you know and again they I think they released the first one because the
00:34:41
older sketch because they thought that was more along the lines of what they were seeing on the video and they had
00:34:48
Witnesses who said they saw him so that that seems like the likely that seems like the obvious way to go right
00:34:55
is to release that one that's the guy when the gbi came in and they looked over everything they realized hey you
00:35:01
know things aren't the way they seem and that sketch that we had originally is more in line with who we think this
00:35:11
guy is and I I wonder if that if at that point did they go over multiple interviews or did
00:35:20
they re because because Carter had said this multiple times when we you know run out of leads we go
00:35:27
back to the beginning and it's right that's right at some point that's a good point yep when they went back to the
00:35:33
beginning and maybe I mean we have online DP saying that I've talked to law enforcement multiple times was it right
00:35:40
was it the second time that they talked to you that your story didn't make sense
00:35:44
with your first story yeah Cheyenne's story didn't match your story or Cheryl's story didn't match your
00:35:50
story or Shelby hicks's story didn't match your story right yeah I think I think that the time
00:35:57
the timeline is the most important thing because again I go back to what I said originally about the purp not wanting to
00:36:03
be under that bridge between 2 30 and 3 30. you know DP admitted to a source that he was the reason that or he was
00:36:14
part of the arguing couple okay and the reason the reason for that was he explained it as that they explained away
00:36:20
why the girl he was with didn't see BG they said they ran into BG or BG walked past them the girl he was with didn't
00:36:27
see her and the reason was because they were arguing okay now if you're part of the
00:36:33
arguing couple and Derek runs into FSG around 320 and he's coming from the High Bridge and tells Derek that he had just
00:36:42
heard an arguing couple under the bridge but just before that puts arguing couple guy under that
00:36:50
bridge around three o'clock right but that's what he said online but what is he saying to law enforcement
00:36:57
we don't know right right now I'm part of arguing couple well who's the girl you're with well it was my fiance and
00:37:05
they go talk to her and she goes I wasn't there yeah well it was this girl uh because then that would have made
00:37:11
basically the first time they ever talked to him uh suspicious right but I think that's really why he
00:37:20
jumps out to me is when he's constantly changing his stories online and you can actually see what he posted and go well
00:37:27
that doesn't make any sense with the last thing he posted and this guy's also claiming to be there also claiming to be
00:37:34
an eyewitness but like you said okay I'm part of arguing couple that's under the
00:37:39
bridge about three o'clock anything under the bridge to me as part of the crime scene because we have we have the
00:37:46
audio clip of them saying of of the murderer saying guys down the hill correct and we know that uh the most
00:37:57
likely way they got to where they ended up uh where they were found would have been
00:38:03
down the hill by Under the Bridge uh you know down across that private drive over the creek and then to the
00:38:11
final spot um so yeah he would have known definitely that you know they would definitely know he was there
00:38:17
at that time or he would definitely have been there at that time if he's admitting to being uh arguing couple
00:38:24
maybe maybe that was the uh statement that was problematic in terms of you know hey you know I used it to
00:38:34
explain away why the girl didn't see it but it's backfired because of what FSG and that and also May tie into why he
00:38:43
says why he recanted about the original and said maybe he thought he saw FSG he's trying you know because he knows
00:38:50
that puts him there in that spot and again that's the last place the part wants to be
00:38:56
is near that bridge under that bridge between 2 30 and 3 30. so one thing I'm a little unclear on of here skip is the
00:39:03
uh regardless of what girl he what woman he claims he was there with has this woman
00:39:09
been identified and saying that they were there with DP that day she hasn't come out publicly no
00:39:17
now what's been said like you know like the captain said what's been talked about to law enforcement I don't know
00:39:21
but [ __ ] nobody's publicly come out and said they were with DP that day okay so if he is if he was in fact there
00:39:29
by himself hmm that seems a possibility we don't have anybody stating I was the person he
00:39:38
claimed to have been there with in either story correct because both stories have him with somebody else
00:39:43
correct but when Cheyenne sees him is he with somebody she says he's with yeah she's his one corroborating but
00:39:52
again there's nobody there to that says they saw her we don't know that she was there and her stories
00:39:59
changed um multiple times you know her her story carries a little weight because of the
00:40:05
posting of that picture but if you look at it yeah yeah you'd have to you'd have
00:40:09
to uh decide for yourself whether you think the legitimacy of that photo I mean I'm not saying it's not it's a real
00:40:15
photo I'm not we don't we don't know a hundred percent everything about it uh she said she went there to take photos
00:40:22
that day and she she showed just a couple of pictures I mean what you know seems like you've taken you would take a
00:40:28
lot if you went there to take photos well there was stuff that was wrong with the time stamps too right yeah the time
00:40:35
stamp set an hour difference than uh what she claimed it was see I thought she had posted something she did she
00:40:41
just that was the problem it didn't it did that time didn't line up with what the time stamp said well because at some
00:40:46
point she's posting from across the bridge close to the murder scene yes from the
00:40:52
south side yeah I think you know one of the one of the things that I think people have questions about is is well
00:40:58
why didn't they you know why didn't they Grill him and all that kind of stuff again early on law enforcement was
00:41:03
looking for rsos they had there was a serial killer Theory possibly FBI is putting out
00:41:11
flyers all over the country they were going down a totally different Road they were they were looking for an older guy
00:41:18
possibly a like I said a serial killer sexual offender they weren't looking for you know some someone in their 20s
00:41:27
locally and so the folks of the investigation again that's why Carter said we're just
00:41:34
now beginning in the 2019 press conference is because the information that they gathered over that period of
00:41:39
time changed and that's why the emphasis was on his local he's younger and we have a sketch of him what is
00:41:48
Cheyenne's motivation for pretending to be there that day I don't know 100 I don't I don't uh I wouldn't
00:41:57
even really venture to guess uh what somebody's reading somebody give somebody an album if people do it all
00:42:02
the time they do it for love fear money well wait a second hang on because the her motivation for pretending to be
00:42:10
there that day would be giving DP and Alibi if in fact that's not been made clear to anybody
00:42:16
listening yet that that so your your thought is that Cheyenne was with DP that day uh no no I don't know I don't
00:42:26
again until until somebody verifies that they saw her there I don't know that she
00:42:31
was there at all but what would be her motivation for pretending to be there uh like I said it could be in numerous
00:42:38
things you know people people provide Alibis for other people all the time yeah she could have been doing it as a
00:42:45
as uh it may have been innocently at first it may have been you know she he thought she he needed and well he knew
00:42:51
he needed an alibi but if he went to law enforcement and say he was there somebody's got to play somebody's got to
00:42:55
say yeah I saw him there so you can't go and say can't put himself in the middle
00:42:59
of the crime scene so he puts himself in a different spot but that's got to be corroborated he knows that
00:43:04
so but but what's weird to me about DP being there and and like again Cheyenne is just the fact that
00:43:14
there's nobody that is saying that we saw him there I mean he's admitting to be being there so we can assume he's
00:43:21
there right but nobody is saying that they saw him where their story hasn't changed or
00:43:28
hasn't been contradicted in some way that's right that's exactly right I'm getting a little lost here because but
00:43:35
but I agree with Nick where it's like okay but so her stories don't line up but why would she even
00:43:41
said all that she was there why would she say that she saw him at all I mean again it could it could have been
00:43:50
he could have coerced her for whatever reason and you know into believing yeah look he he could he would tell any could
00:43:56
tell anybody hey I was there but I need somebody to say I was there you know I didn't it wasn't me look at the video
00:44:02
that's not me obviously um and they would buy that you know and so uh she may she may give him an alibi in it
00:44:11
you know just doing it innocently I don't know that that would still be the case
00:44:16
um I would think that can be hard to believe that would still be the case but uh but uh
00:44:21
that's that could be a possible reason that any of anybody that was giving him an alibi could have been given Alibi
00:44:29
originally didn't realize what they were giving in Alibi for right that's fair I'm just I'm just pointing
00:44:36
out that we're saying on what with one hand that if DP says he was there then we should believe that to be true but if
00:44:43
Cheyenne says she was there we shouldn't believe it to be true or we should question well what I think we should
00:44:49
question more is not say so much whether or not she was there but what we do know
00:44:54
is based off what she's told people online and what the these posts and these other things that the timeline is
00:45:02
very contradicted so I would say I go to for as far as say DPS said he's there he said he's
00:45:10
eyewitness Cheyenne has come forward and told talked to a bunch of sources online
00:45:15
and said that she was eyewitness not to bridge guy but that she saw TP there right right I I question more her
00:45:26
timeline and so so if she says well I saw a DP there okay you saw DP there and it doesn't even matter if you saw
00:45:36
him with a girl because if she saw him at two o'clock with a girl and it's at a distance we don't know if
00:45:45
that's not Libby or Abby right plus we don't know where she's saying that she saw him at and so that's
00:45:52
all I'm saying is that we know that her story has shifted and morphed so I just don't
00:45:59
I I don't even know if she's essentially lying for DP I think she might just be you know all wise yeah I saw him at
00:46:07
three but really it was four or maybe it was two we don't we don't know well ask
00:46:14
yourself why she was talking publicly anyway I mean she didn't see BG never claimed to see BG so
00:46:21
her her uh basically her existence in the case uh is explaining who she saw that day
00:46:30
so she's coming forward and saying who she saw she did she didn't see the bridge guy so she offers nothing in
00:46:36
terms of a witness to seeing the guy who you know but she is saying oh and she's
00:46:42
trying you know she's putting people in certain places oh I saw this guy and he was with this girl and I saw a girl that
00:46:48
I didn't know was going to be there um so for me that that's that's the best she's doing is just is uh witnessing
00:46:57
Witnesses yeah but she also could be just coming online because there's such a fascination with this
00:47:04
case yeah and that's I think I think she was stuck she started talking though early
00:47:09
before the case ever got to a point where it was had gotten crazy like this but but have I been bamboozled because
00:47:17
the information I have says that Cheyenne posted a picture that afternoon she did
00:47:24
yeah so the way is that one she was there I mean that's that's what I'm trying to get to here we're circling
00:47:31
around this a lot about whether she was there or not but that doesn't that posting of the picture add to
00:47:37
credibility of her physically being there that afternoon maybe maybe not I mean the picture
00:47:45
didn't look like it was even from the same day as a matter of fact it looked like what I was asking yeah it looked
00:47:52
like it had fog in it it also um the time stamp that originally she showed on the picture didn't line up
00:47:59
when she when she said she was there she possibly could have been there could have been early or whatever
00:48:05
um but even even if it wasn't let's say she's off by an hour let's say she's off
00:48:10
by seven hours I'm not really I don't really care about that when I'm when I'm trying to point out is that we know she
00:48:16
posted a picture that afternoon right claiming to be there what I'm getting at is for for someone to go oh well I just
00:48:24
want to be a part of this it gets a little difficult to you can't go back in time and post that
00:48:30
picture to add to your credibility later that you were in fact there because that
00:48:35
afternoon nobody knows what had happened it's not an event yet it's not it's nothing yet yeah
00:48:41
um we don't know until that evening that they're in fact missing we don't know until
00:48:45
but the killer noon the next day that they were killed that they were killed or the killer right right but we need to
00:48:51
say that here rather than dance around it you know we we need to be presenting a direct story with timeline and
00:48:58
narrative uh for this this series yeah she she offered up the photo as as proof that she was there because this isn't
00:49:06
the first time anybody's questioned her story and not making sense yeah but I think what Nick is trying to point out
00:49:12
is yeah she offered up a photo of proof but didn't she also post that photo the day of the murders on her social media
00:49:21
uh she posted she said she posted it um yeah I think maybe I think that was the one where the time frame was just or
00:49:29
the time stamp was all again if she's got she she did come before that but she her story is is always made sense where
00:49:35
she says she is at a certain time it's never made sense um again I go back to that why you know
00:49:41
you're coming forward but why are you telling why are you saying things that don't add up and and and
00:49:48
changing your story and all that I don't I don't understand that yeah the story is not making sense so many people
00:49:54
having multiple contradicting stories when you have three stories only one of them can be
00:50:01
true and why would you protect somebody that murdered a 13 and 14 year old girl absolutely makes no sense it makes you
00:50:11
as big of a piece of [ __ ] as the murderer [Music] what are your thoughts on Skip's Theory of his Person of
00:50:28
Interest we want to hear from you at truecrime garage.com and click on the blog and
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then join us back here for part three here in the garage until then be good be kind and don't live
00:50:43
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