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>> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
00:01:42
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man who is wondering why you are hogging the lat
00:01:48
pulldown machine. Here is the Captain. I'm not wondering. I know. It's [music] good to be seen and good to
00:01:54
see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. This week we are drinking Saturday in
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the park by North Park Beer Company. Saturday in the park is an Imperial New England Hazy IPA. This is a
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collaboration brew North Park Beer Company teamed up with Microphone Brewing to create this fantastic, very
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It's delicious. The can art is superb. ABV 8.5% garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five.
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And let's give some thanks and praise to our good friends who helped us fill up the old garage fridge for this week's
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shows. First up, we have a cheers to Mean Jean Janette in Gilbertsville, Pennsylvania. And a big we like to give
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goes out to Dr. D in Littleton, Colorado. And here's a cheers to our good friends up north. This one going to
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Cindy in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. And last but certainly not least, here's a cheers to Leanne, also in Windsor,
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[music] Ontario. Everyone we just mentioned went to truecrimegarage.com and donated to this week's beer fund,
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and for that, we thank you. >> Yeah, b w e double r u n, beer run. You need more True Crime Garage for your
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earballs? Let me tell you, [music] three out of four doctors say yes, you do. And
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we just released a >> [music] >> very interesting off-the-record last week, so check that out.
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And you can check all that stuff out at truecrimegarage.com, and Colonel, that's enough of the
00:03:33
business. >> All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk
00:03:38
some true crime. On February 2nd, 2008, a man walked into a Lane Bryant clothing store in Tinley
00:03:54
Park, Illinois, posing as a delivery man. He announced a hold-up and then began taking women to a back room, where they
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were bound with duct tape. One of the brave ladies managed to call 911. The robbery escalated and turned very
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violent. Before fleeing, he shot all six ladies. Despite police arriving on the scene
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within minutes of the 911 call, the killer managed to get away. And we still have a lot of questions.
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Like, was this a robbery gone very bad, or are there bigger motives at play? We first covered this case with True
00:04:39
Crime Garage episodes 200 and 201 back in 2018. And this week we are taking a new and
00:04:49
fresh look at a case that should be closed out. Police have spent millions of dollars
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trying to catch this man, but still to this day, they need your help to identify him.
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The public is reminded that the offender remains at large and should be considered armed and extremely
00:05:08
dangerous. A $100,000 reward has been established for information leading to the arrest of
00:05:15
the offender. The reward is not dependent upon conviction. Any information will be kept
00:05:23
confidential. The tip hotline number is 708-444-5394. You can also email your information to
00:05:33
[email protected]. This is True Crime Garage. Our true crime story this week is from a
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lovely place called Tinley Park. Tinley Park is a village located in Cook County, Illinois. This is a suburb
00:06:07
almost an hour south of Chicago. The population as of 2020 is just under 56,000 people. Now, this horrific crime took
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place back in 2008. Five women killed in one fell swoop. However, this cold-blooded murder had
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every intention of killing six and maybe even more. Tinley Park, not unlike so many other wonderful cities and suburbs,
00:06:37
is not a place that typically sees this level of violence and homicides. In fact, just the calendar year before
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these murders, that ended just 33 days before these five women were killed, Tinley Park, Illinois, in 2007,
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no murders and only 15 robberies reported. Now, at the center of this case is going to be
00:07:02
a Lane Bryant store in Tinley Park. Lane Bryant, according to the company's website, is the most recognized name in
00:07:09
plus-size ladies clothing, and their emphasis is on fashion and fit. That is what makes them a style leader.
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This particular Lane Bryant store that we are discussing today, the Tinley Park Lane Bryant, was located at the
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Brookside Marketplace, which was built in 2005. This is your typical big-box clothing store for the gentlemen
00:07:36
out there listening that may be less familiar with Lane Bryant than the fairer gender listeners, Lane Bryant is
00:07:44
smaller than a Walmart or Target. It's a Kohl's-sized store. Today, the company operates
00:07:50
approximately 400 stores in 46 US states. This particular one, the Tinley Park Lane Bryant, was it's no longer in
00:08:00
existence, as many would expect. This one was a 23,000-sq-ft store. Back in 2008, Brookside
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Marketplace included some storefronts that were not open yet. This making this Lane Bryant store more isolated.
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The strip mall skirts a major section of Interstate 80, the Belt of America, with a Holiday Inn and a Sleep Inn
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hotels quite nearby. No houses are in the immediate area, and there are a few apartment buildings about a half a mile
00:08:37
away. All right, Captain, let's go back to Saturday, February 2nd, 2008, which was a very cold day. The ground
00:08:47
was frozen. We got snow everywhere. We have 42-year-old Rhoda McFarland. She went to work on this Saturday. She's the
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store manager of this Lane Bryant. This is going to be a busy day. She's preparing for a busy day as the
00:09:05
corporate office mailed out to their customers promoting a big clearance sale. So, she's anticipating a lot of activity
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in her store on that day. What she could not anticipate, what nobody could anticipate, was what was about to happen
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shortly after the business opened for the day. The Lane Bryant store opened its doors
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for business at 10:00 a.m., and the crime unfolded shortly after. At 10:08, a man entered the store,
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engaged a store clerk in conversation, asking and talking about a delivery. He's saying he's a delivery man. He's
00:09:52
there about a delivery. In his hands, carrying papers, Bogus papers, mind you. Bogus delivery
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papers. This man will later be described by Tinley Park PD as a male black, possibly 29 years of
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age, wearing a dark-colored jacket. Now, to be very clear, this is the description that goes out over the
00:10:18
police radios when the officers are responding to the scene. So, as he enters the store, one witness would
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later say that the man was looking upward and around. And after the crimes, this
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witness believes that he was looking toward the ceiling for security cameras. Spoiler alert, this store had
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well, I'll count them for you. Zero. Zero cameras. That's the highest she's ever counted. Now, in our previous
00:10:50
coverage, we went deeper into information about the area, the Lane Bryant franchise, and the victims. Here,
00:11:00
we have six victims that were present at the time, and then of course, countless
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victims beyond the walls of this Lane Bryant due to this act of just completely senseless murder. The man
00:11:13
chatted briefly with Rhoda McFarland, the store manager, and the surviving witness. Both of these workers.
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We don't use her real name, the surviving witness, but she is called Martha to protect her identity. So, the
00:11:30
man spoke to both of these ladies regarding this fake delivery. Rhoda called another store location to
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see if there was some type of mix-up with the delivery. During this time, two customers entered the store.
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And it is at this time that police say the man then pulled out a gun, announced a hold-up.
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He's now forcing the four women two employees, two customers that were in the store into the back room,
00:12:01
which was a small employee break room where they conducted some of the operations.
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He forced the women to tape each other's hands, and then he bound the remaining women or woman himself. After binding
00:12:15
them, he told them to lay face down on the floor. They were bound with duct tape, hands behind their backs. Two more
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women who later entered the store were also taken to this back room, bound and placed next to the others.
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It has been stated and reported that the man was robbery the customers. These two customers as they came into
00:12:42
the store and as he's taking them to the back. So, he's he's demanding their cash.
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And some reports even state that he took some of their personal belongings, jewelry, and such. Well, like you said,
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black man, roughly 6 ft tall. He had a husky build. He has a gun. He has cornrowed hair.
00:13:05
And then he has a braid. One of the braids is like going to the right side of his face
00:13:10
with these little light-colored like light green-colored beads. The order in which these
00:13:17
customers came into the store is unknown. What is known and believed by many, especially her family and police, is
00:13:27
that Connie Woolfolk, she's a fighter, right, by nature. She had some point she must have had a physical altercation
00:13:37
with the suspect. We know this because she is found with additional injuries. So, this woman, Connie, she was known to
00:13:44
be very tough and a fighter. She was more banged up compared to the others. She was struck in the face, possibly
00:13:52
with the butt of the suspect's gun. She also had blood under her fingernails, which is believed to have
00:14:01
come from the suspect. After he had six bound in the back of the store, the suspect took clothing from the
00:14:09
store. This is several pair of panties and placed these articles over the heads of the women. This was done to blind the
00:14:18
victims so that they one could no longer see him or what was going on. And an attempt to further control them
00:14:26
and the situation at hand. At some point, the suspect said some degrading comments to one of the women and fondled
00:14:34
her. Mhm. Somehow, during all of this chaos, the store manager, Rhoda McFarland, managed
00:14:42
to call 911. This is from the cell phone using Bluetooth technology at 10:44 a.m. She managed to make the call while
00:14:53
the gunman was distracted, even though she was bound by tape. On the call, which is posted on the Tinley Park
00:15:04
police website, very brave Rhoda McFarland calls 911. You know, I originally reported she is calling
00:15:15
to report a robbery in progress. Of course, this is true, but truly, she is reporting a robbery in progress,
00:15:21
a hostage situation, and after more thought, I think she made this call out of pure
00:15:27
desperation. I think at this point in the situation, Captain, she can see, she can hear that
00:15:33
this guy is becoming more and more agitated. He's becoming more aggressive. He's getting violent.
00:15:40
He's becoming more and more unhinged and totally out of control. This is not going as he had planned. And if someone
00:15:47
was going to pay for it, it was going to be those women on the floor. The 911 emergency services officer picks
00:15:56
up the call. Lane Bryant. McFarland whispers to the dispatcher. Where at? the dispatcher asks. Tinley
00:16:06
Park. McFarland replies. She adds, "Hurry." Now, I know you, Captain, like me, we've
00:16:13
listened to this call dozens of times. During this call, the suspect can be heard in the background
00:16:20
kind of shouting at the women. Right. You do hear him some of the words So, we have
00:16:28
reports and descriptions by folks smarter than us as to what they think they're hearing him say, but one
00:16:37
part that I can clearly hear is he says, "I'm losing it." Yeah, like you said, I think she makes the call out
00:16:44
out of desperation, but if I'm law enforcement, and again, what information, what details do
00:16:53
we get from the surviving victim? Did she see the killer make contact with the customers? Did she
00:17:03
see whatever escalation happened between him and and the customers? Because to me, there there's a
00:17:12
calculated plan here. Because you have a gun, you're trying to control the situation. But to me, he has
00:17:19
a plan. And and I think we have maybe some evidence. I'd I'd like to know what your thoughts are. If one of these
00:17:27
individuals, one of the hostages, attacks you, he could have easily just shot her then
00:17:32
and there. But I think he didn't do that because he had an ultimate plan. And then he goes and tries to execute
00:17:42
that plan afterwards. So, yes, probably getting irritated as things are not going
00:17:48
exactly to his plan, but if this guy was just purely crazy or insane, the moment he is attacked, the
00:17:56
moment he is resisted, he could just kill one or all of them and and not go with a plan. Yes, it's believed that
00:18:07
at some point, this suspect heard either heard the phone call to 911, heard Ms. McFarland's
00:18:16
Bluetooth phone call, or that may have even heard the dispatcher's voice over the phone call. The police are
00:18:23
dispatched. A Tinley Park police officer was in an adjacent parking lot at the time of the 911 call. It is approximated
00:18:32
that he was about 200 yards away. So, police obviously arriving on the scene extremely quickly. And it's reported
00:18:40
that the first officer arrived about 2 minutes after the very, very short 911 call. The surviving witness, Martha,
00:18:48
stated that she heard the police sirens before the shooting started. If I'm law enforcement and I hear this account from
00:18:58
this witness, we have no knowledge of his plan. So, he could have just been going to bound them and tie them up and
00:19:06
leave. But that plan could have changed completely once he hears the sirens. And once he hears those sirens, it's
00:19:15
okay. And that and that moment, I I change my plan. I'm going to leave no witnesses,
00:19:22
and I'm going to get out of here. So, this is all going down at approximately 10:46 a.m.
00:19:28
And this is when all six women were shot execution style. Rhoda McFarland was the only one that
00:19:36
was shot in the forehead. The rest in the back of their heads. The man then walked out the front door
00:19:44
and disappeared. And we sit here well over more than a decade later with no clue as to who he is or where he
00:19:54
went. Do we have any eyewitnesses once he leaves? We do not. If there are the there's been reports of
00:20:01
or no reports of such. Five of these ladies were dead when police arrived and then one woman
00:20:09
thankfully survived. She too had been shot and left for dead, but she tricked the killer by moving her head at the
00:20:16
last second and was shot in the neck. She Martha then played dead until police arrived.
00:20:25
A black SUV as well as a black sedan were seen on video leaving the Lane Bryant parking lot at approximately
00:20:33
10:48 a.m. So, all of this happens within the time span of about 40 minutes from the time he arrives
00:20:45
to the time that he thinks everyone's dead and leaves the store and police are in route and then on the scene. So,
00:20:53
suspect arrives at Lane Bryant store at approximately 10:08 a.m. The call to 911
00:20:58
is placed at 10:44. Shots are fired at approximately 10:46 and the suspect left the scene at
00:21:05
approximately 10:48. The following morning, the Sunday edition of the Chicago Tribune led with the headline
00:21:13
five women slain in store. Police hunt gunmen in shooting at Tinley Park Mall. The
00:21:21
article reads in part, "A gunman led women into the back of a clothing store Saturday morning, killed them, then he
00:21:29
walked out the front door and disappeared." Police say there were no survivors at the Lane Bryant store in
00:21:37
a suburban strip mall along Interstate Highway 80 and what they are calling a botched robbery.
00:21:54
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All right, we are back. Talk hands in the air. Cheers, mates. Cheers to you, captain. This is a
00:24:53
case as we said in the trailer today that we have covered before and we if you wish to go back and listen to that
00:25:01
coverage, know that it's different than what you are hearing today if you've not
00:25:06
reviewed those podcasts prior. And this is also one that we've circled back to at least on one, probably several
00:25:12
occasions on Off the Record. Now, you heard it there just before our beer break. A much
00:25:20
needed beer break, I must add. The paper said that he led all of the women to the back
00:25:28
of the store and killed all the women and there were no survivors. Now, this is weird the way that it's reported, right?
00:25:36
It's very smart and they were probably told to do so or at least the information they were getting from the
00:25:42
police is probably saying simply, "Unfortunately, we have five women that were taken hostage. They were shot and
00:25:48
killed. There were no survivors." This is to protect the sole survivor. I mean, she's immediately put into
00:25:57
protective custody and care. She's She had to go to the hospital due to her injuries, which near fatal. I
00:26:07
mean, inches away from from her being killed. And she now has to be protected her her and her family.
00:26:16
Is this just a a sole operator that was determined to rob, maybe even prepared to kill that day,
00:26:25
and would do it again, would hunt her down, go after her family, or could this be something larger? Were other people
00:26:32
involved? Could this be gang related? So, this woman must be protected for a million reasons and some of those
00:26:41
reasons are she is going to be your best provider of information about who the killer
00:26:48
is. Right. And we don't have eyewitnesses outside of the store, but we do have camera footage of this SUV.
00:26:56
If that was involved in this crime, was that SUV been being driven by the killer
00:27:03
or was there other individuals involved? >> We never like to victim blame here. Of
00:27:09
course, the franchise itself, Lane Bryant, is in some ways a victim as well, but I just
00:27:16
I think it is a huge disservice to your employees to not value their safety and their protection.
00:27:26
I think I say I will say shame on you, Lane Bryant. This is 2008 in a newly developed mall, right? The
00:27:37
This Marketplace Mall was built in 2005. We're not dealing with something that was built in the '70s. We're we're
00:27:45
dealing with a newer store. We know that this Lane Bryant I believe it was open for 2 years prior to this horrible day.
00:27:53
You're putting up a store in 2006. You got people working there in 2008 and it's a
00:27:59
nice area, bad area, whatever. Put some cameras up there. I And I know there's somebody out there
00:28:05
listening to me going, "Nick, you're an idiot. That wouldn't have prevented that may
00:28:11
not have prevented these murders." Well, couple things. If the witness is correct saying that
00:28:16
she believed that the man was looking up the suspect was looking up and she thought perhaps after the fact he was
00:28:24
looking to make sure there were no security cameras. Had he been Had he spotted a
00:28:29
camera, who's to say he wouldn't have left? Regardless of that part of the story,
00:28:36
what we would have is more information about who this guy is. Well, we we probably have footage that was so
00:28:43
blurry that we couldn't make out It's Well, they were killed by a blob. Cuz put in surveillance cameras
00:28:55
and and make sure it's of decent quality. And shout out to our long-time uh sponsor and our friends over at
00:29:05
SimpliSafe, who do a a a hell of a job. They got some of the best equipment out there, some of the
00:29:11
best monitoring that you will ever find. #is a sponsor. Right. We were having this conversation
00:29:19
over some beers with some friends and I had said, "You know, I said, 'I'm getting some more cameras from
00:29:24
SimpliSafe.' And and one of our friends says, 'Well, you got a camera out front and a camera out back. How many do you
00:29:29
need?' And I said, 'You know what? I don't give a GD about somebody breaking into the house. If somebody If somebody
00:29:36
does something to me or my property, I want them caught. I I want them caught and I want them to
00:29:44
serve time. And I I'll put up 30 cameras if I have to. Well, and also the your killer probably came from within
00:29:52
side the house. Mhm. Mhm. Let that set in. So, the search, of course, they're going to do a search of
00:29:59
the immediate area. This is going to be very intensive with at least eight local
00:30:06
police department law enforcement agency departments on hand quickly descending on the shopping center and the immediate
00:30:13
area. They're checking vehicles. They're going door-to-door. We have multiple helicopters in the sky, at least one
00:30:21
with infrared technology, the whole nine yards. Now, I've seen some footage. This would be a
00:30:31
difficult space to conduct such a large-scale search, regardless of how many boots on
00:30:38
the ground you have, right? You have cars in the parking lots. You have other stores. And yes, there were some empty
00:30:44
stores, but you have the interstate that is nearby. And they believe that they're they're
00:30:50
looking for someone that they know to be armed and dangerous, right? Which is going to complicate your
00:30:56
search as well, because you have women and men conducting the search that may be in fear of their own lives. Yeah. I
00:31:04
don't I don't mean to critique >> dangerous. I mean, this guy didn't blink. He tried to execute
00:31:11
six women. I don't mean to critique too much, but I saw on several occasions on this footage
00:31:19
where they questioned the driver or passengers in a car. They look they look through the windows, open up some doors.
00:31:28
But I saw a couple cars get out of there and a trunk not being searched. And we don't know how this killer
00:31:35
entered, where he came from, uh how he got to the the shopping mall, how he got away from
00:31:43
the shopping mall. And I keep kind of circling back to that idea, because I don't want anybody I don't I think it
00:31:49
would be irresponsible for all of us to dismiss any possibility of anyone else being
00:31:55
involved. Right. There could be a getaway driver. There could have been a lookout. Who knows?
00:32:01
And we'll get more into that as we continue on. When a case isn't solved, you have to be open to many
00:32:08
possibilities. Stay open. >> Is there somebody else involved? Is there more than one person involved? Did
00:32:14
he leave by car? Did he leave by motorcycle? Did he leave by bicycle? Did he leave on foot?
00:32:20
We we don't know that. The victims, we have five killed, one wounded, treated at St. James Hospital in Olympia Fields
00:32:31
and then released the following day. The survivor was released the following day
00:32:36
on Sunday, February 3rd. The survivor does not live in the area anymore and has not for a long time, but
00:32:48
does stay in constant contact with police whenever she is needed. The victims, we have Rhoda McFarland,
00:32:59
age 42. As said, she was the manager of the Lane Bryant store. Been there for 2 years. She was a US Air Force veteran,
00:33:07
worked as a nurse at Andrews Air Force Base. She also served as a pastor for a Christian center. Rhoda was
00:33:19
engaged over the holidays. She had just gotten engaged, Captain, over the holidays of 2007 to a man named
00:33:26
Stewart Gibbs. She continued to answer her Christian calling while working at Lane Bryant, often using her employee
00:33:34
discount to buy clothes for people who are less fortunate. As said, she's the only victim shot in
00:33:41
the forehead. This is believed that the killer caught her on the phone talking to 911
00:33:47
and that is why she was facing the killer when shot. Jenny Lynn Bishop was 34 years old of South Bend. She was
00:33:58
a customer. She was married to Brian Bishop and they had three young children. She graduated from Indiana
00:34:05
University with a Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree in 1996. And she had been employed at a hospital.
00:34:15
And she also worked in the intensive care unit. She had just celebrated her 34th
00:34:21
birthday just days prior and she was at the store that day using a gift card that she received from a friend or loved
00:34:31
one for her birthday. Her situation's a little more unique than some of the other victims, being that she
00:34:41
was only in the area because her husband was in the area traveling for business and she decided to go out for the day
00:34:47
while he was working. We also have Sarah Sofferansky. She's the youngest of the victims, just
00:34:56
22 years old. She was a customer that day. Unfortunately, she had just graduated
00:35:04
in 2007 from Northern Illinois University with a degree in finance and she had a new job and she was at that
00:35:11
Lane Bryant store that day shopping for work clothes. Connie Woolfolk was the woman who fought back.
00:35:19
She was a mortgage lender who lived with her mother and two sons, a single mother. Now, remember the housing market
00:35:26
in 2007 did a total tank job. So, she was riding the storm out. She took a second job stocking shelves
00:35:34
overnight at the SuperTarget that was in the same Tinley Park shopping center. That morning, she was treating herself
00:35:41
on that Saturday to some shopping at Lane Bryant to buy a new outfit. Her family said when told that
00:35:49
hey, she had more injuries than the others, she's got bruising that the others didn't have. She She had been beaten.
00:35:56
They said they weren't surprised because they said she would not have gone along
00:36:00
with with anything without a fight. Well, and law enforcement was able to get DNA and fingerprints. So, I'm
00:36:07
guessing that they got the killer's DNA through her contact with him, is what I'm guessing. Or maybe a possibly
00:36:16
possibly that was the way. >> The DNA they've always been a little cagey about that. We don't have 100% confirmation
00:36:24
that they have DNA. I believe that they do. And yes, you're absolutely right. If if
00:36:31
they did have as stated, it's been reported or at least rumored many times over that blood
00:36:37
was found under her fingernails. If the most likely of places that it it would have come from would be the suspect when
00:36:43
she fought back. We have Carrie Chiuso, uh age 33 of Frankfort. She was a customer as well. She was a social
00:36:50
worker. Her and her husband had been married for just a year and a half before she was killed. Her husband
00:36:58
was waiting for her to return home. She was out shopping. He sees the news report on TV and sadly, he
00:37:06
saw and observed her car parked in front of the store during this emergency breaking news coverage. I think one of
00:37:15
the misconceptions is when you hear overviews of this case and you hear that these two customers come in, I think a
00:37:21
lot of people assume that they knew each other or that they were shopping together.
00:37:26
And it doesn't seem like they were connected in any way other than just shopping at Lane Bryant at the same
00:37:33
time. Exactly. And we have statements from law enforcement stating we don't know what
00:37:40
order the customers came in. >> Well, and we know that the store opened up at 10:00 a.m.
00:37:47
Do we have a good understanding of what time the employees got there and was there
00:37:52
a staggering end process or was it just we all enter the building at 9:00? I believe it's 9:00. I don't have any hard
00:38:03
and fast evidence of that, but I if I had to make a wager, I would go with with roughly 9:00 as the arrival
00:38:12
time for at least the manager to get things opened up. Yeah, but a lot of these retail stores,
00:38:20
they don't open with just one employee. No, both both employees were present when the doors opened at 10:00 a.m.
00:38:27
>> And so, again, it wouldn't be that hard for anybody to figure out that the store opens at 10:00. We have this
00:38:35
killer coming in 8 minutes after opening. To me, this is another piece of evidence of
00:38:43
that this is not so random and actually, there was some kind of plan. I have always thought
00:38:50
that the intention was to get there very quickly after opening the store so that
00:38:55
he could take control of whatever the people inside the store, the store itself.
00:39:02
One thing we do know is unless he was just unable to get back to the front door, he didn't lock the door. Whether
00:39:10
that was just he didn't have enough time to do so or he didn't want to and that will
00:39:17
be a part of our theories that we will discuss later on, because unfortunately, there's so much left to question in this
00:39:26
case. We also have Martha, again, not her real name, was the surviving the only surviving victim. She was 33 years old.
00:39:35
She was just a part-time employee at the Lane Bryant store. She was shot along with the rest of the victims, but the
00:39:40
bullet went into her neck, missing vital organs. She was enrolled in nursing school and working two jobs at the time.
00:39:49
This is a Tinley Park Police Department media release titled Lane Bryant homicide investigation, and it reads,
00:39:57
"The Tinley Park Police Department is continuing its investigation into the murders of five women at the Lane Bryant
00:40:04
clothing store, which occurred late Saturday morning, February 2nd, 2008." Tinley Park Police continue to work with
00:40:12
the South Suburban Major Crime Task Force, the Will County Coroner's Office, and the Will County State's Attorney, as
00:40:21
well as several other surrounding agencies in solving this crime. As reported earlier, this incident
00:40:29
appears to stem from an armed robbery attempt, which may have been interrupted. As of this morning, so this
00:40:37
comes out February 3rd, the following day, "The five victims have been positively
00:40:43
identified, and we've already gone through all of their names and ages. The coroner has also determined that
00:40:50
each of the five victims died of gunshot wounds. At this time, we are asking that
00:40:55
anyone having information regarding this crime or who may have seen anything of a
00:41:01
suspicious nature in or around the mall located at 190 at 191st Street and Harlem Avenue
00:41:11
between 10:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. Saturday, February 2nd, to call the Tinley Park Police Department." We
00:41:20
should note here, Captain, later in these police request for information from the public, this time
00:41:28
of 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. for request for information would be changed to 9:00
00:41:33
a.m. to 11:00 a.m. And then eventually, they would be saying anytime leading up to 11:00 a.m. You're
00:41:43
saying that they had a officer less than 200 yards away. So, do we have the exact
00:41:51
time of when they arrived at the scene? Yes, all reports state that they were on
00:41:56
the scene within 2 minutes of receiving the 911 call, which we we know what time
00:42:02
that was placed. The The only variance in reporting on that, and keep in mind, this is one case where they've been
00:42:12
extremely protective of the information that they have and and the information that they don't
00:42:19
have, frankly. The only variance in that reporting would be Some reports state that it was 2 minutes after the phone
00:42:26
call ended. Some reports state that it's 2 minutes from the start of the phone call. I don't think that matters either
00:42:34
way, as the phone the 911 call is extremely short. Ex- I mean, it's seconds long. I think what matters more
00:42:41
is, like you said, this eyewitness that survives saying, "Hey, I heard the police sirens before
00:42:48
the shooting started." Yeah. And if she heard them, there's every reason to believe that the killer
00:42:54
Right. >> heard them as well. [clears throat] Now, in her shock and in that situation, and I fault her
00:43:03
to a zero degree, because I think it would be irresponsible to to think that she's going to get everything
00:43:12
100% correct in a moment where she's hearing people get shot, or at least she's hearing I don't know if
00:43:19
she's able to see at this point. Right. But she is hearing gunshots from a very coming from a very angry man. And so, I
00:43:28
mean, we're talking split-second stuff here, where it it could be sirens go off, boom, boom,
00:43:36
boom, or it's boom, sirens, boom, boom, boom, you know. It's all happening all at the same time
00:43:43
in in my mind. What I think when we talk about time line here, and as far as our
00:43:48
suspect goes in in demanding and requesting this information from the public, is
00:43:53
they keep altering the start time. Hey, we want to know if anybody saw anything from this time to 11:00 a.m. or that
00:44:00
time to 11:00 a.m. The constant is 11:00 a.m. They Based off of this information, they seem
00:44:08
to believe 99% to 100% that this guy, the killer, was gone by 11:00 a.m. leaving the door open for what time he
00:44:18
may have came to this area, right? We know what time he walked into the store, but who's
00:44:23
to say he didn't [clears throat] drive around in these parking lots or walk around or, as you said, if he were on
00:44:30
foot or on a bicycle, I believe he would have had to have something transport him
00:44:36
from this location or just have been really damn good at it. I'm I'm a little surprised he didn't leave through the
00:44:43
back door. I mean, if he had already heard sirens, what the even if there's an emergency
00:44:49
alarm that's going to go off, why go all the way back through the There There must be some reason why he went
00:44:55
all the way back through the front door. Yeah, maybe that's where his vehicle is.
00:44:59
Maybe that's where Getaway driver? Right. And then also, I think these little details matter, cuz
00:45:08
is this a sign of Like I said, I I believe there's evidence to point to planning,
00:45:16
but then, how well was it planned? How well was the the facility cased by this indi- individual?
00:45:24
>> Well, I said it the first time we covered it, if the witness is correct in the thought
00:45:30
that he was looking for surveillance cameras once inside of the store, if if that is correct, that It's again,
00:45:42
it's a belief. But if it's correct, that tells me he's not been in the store before.
00:45:47
Now, he he may have knowledge of Lane Bryant and the workings of Lane Bryant. He may have knowledge of this
00:45:55
general area of the shopping mall, of the parking lot. He may have experience actually conducting
00:46:02
deliveries, but if he were to be looking for cameras, I'm guessing he's not been
00:46:07
in the store prior to this. Or if he's been in the store prior to this, there's been some time that has gone by, right?
00:46:15
That Oh, I didn't see any cameras last time I was in here. I better make sure, but that was 3 months ago, 6 months ago.
00:46:21
I better make sure that's still the case. Yeah, and then you wonder because he's showing up with a gun.
00:46:27
We don't know if he showed up with any other weapons. I believe all the items that they were bound with were found in
00:46:33
the store. The tape, it's been reported that the tape he brought the tape to the store with him
00:46:41
as well as the gun. Yeah, and then again, there's some planning, so then you go, "Well, why wasn't he wearing a
00:46:47
mask?" So, was the plan all along to leave no witnesses? That's a very good question.
00:46:54
And one that needs to be We We may only find that out If there's an arrest, yeah.
00:47:02
>> they find this guy. Or, better yet, where's the tipster? They We've received a lot of tips in this case.
00:47:09
Where's the one that's going to matter and lead to this guy? Somebody knows this guy. I'm convinced of it. Now, part
00:47:15
of this press release as well, they go on to say, "In addition to the cooperation of the surrounding law
00:47:23
enforcement agencies, Lane Bryant executives have been involved in assisting Tinley Park Police Department in this
00:47:29
investigation, adding that the Charming Shops Incorporated and Lane Bryant companies have announced a $50,000
00:47:38
reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for the murders." I
00:47:46
do Let's get into a little do know and don't know. I do know that this reward was
00:47:52
eventually made its way all the way up to $100,000, and I believe all of that coming from
00:47:59
Lane Bryant companies. There There were some other reward monies involved, but I
00:48:03
believe Lane Bryant increased this to $100,000 at some point. What I don't know,
00:48:10
Captain, is, as we sit here in 2026, is that reward still available? There is a reward available,
00:48:19
but there's no current indicator that it's coming from Lane Bryant. The following day,
00:48:27
we get another Tinley Park Police Department media release. This is an update. It states, "At the time of this
00:48:34
incident, the suspect was described as follows." And they they are smart. They say, "However," right? They got to
00:48:42
inform the public. "However, he may have changed his appearance since the time of
00:48:47
the crime." This is the description that they gave. We're talking February 2nd here, 2 days after
00:48:53
the murders. See, male, black, 5'8" to 5'10" tall. Now, as the Captain had said earlier, a lot of the reports out there
00:49:04
have the height being 5'10" to 6' tall these days. So, I think we can't dismiss this. I think it'd be foolish to dismiss
00:49:14
either. So, let's go with 5'8" to 6' tall, approximately. He's a stockier guy. This report says
00:49:23
230 to possibly 260 lbs, yeah, 25 to 35 years of age, medium complexion, broad shoulders, clean-shaven,
00:49:33
wearing black jeans with writing or embroidery on them with some type of rhinestone decorations on the rear
00:49:40
pocket, a dark-colored jacket that hung below the waist with no writing on it, and a charcoal gray knit cap
00:49:50
with hair pulled back with thick braided hair cornrowed as the captain had said with a receding hairline. The suspect is
00:49:58
well-groomed and known to have one braid laying over the right side of his face at cheek level that had four light green
00:50:07
beads on the end of the braid. The braids on his head were pulled straight back.
00:50:13
Yeah, I think the height becomes a issue because we don't have that surveillance
00:50:17
footage. But we've seen in other cases like Delphi where you have footage, but you
00:50:23
don't have really the the proper angles and the and the proper tools to get more definitive
00:50:31
range of height. The next press release that we're going to get, it starts off very similar to the ones we've already
00:50:38
reviewed. So we'll skip over those portions of the press release, but they they spend a a couple of paragraphs
00:50:45
explaining that the information that they have is highly sensitive. It's evidence that needs to be
00:50:55
evaluated, and they want to ensure the public that any information that is important
00:51:01
for them will be released as the investigation progresses. So they're saying we have more information,
00:51:09
but it's very sensitive, and it's sensitive not only because it's evidence, but it's sensitive to the
00:51:14
integrity of the investigation itself. They're adding, "Our primary objectives will always be to capture
00:51:23
this individual and the consideration of our victims." Yeah, you also wonder too
00:51:32
what made one of the hostages feel that they could try to call 911. Was he singling out
00:51:43
another victim? Was there any kind of sexual assault? And maybe they thought as that is taking
00:51:49
place, I can try to make this call. So I think there's there's probably a lot of details that have not been given to
00:51:58
the public, and then you just wonder how how many years with nothing or is law enforcement's thoughts, "Well,
00:52:06
we have fingerprints, and we have DNA, so we'll just keep waiting till technology
00:52:12
catches up." Well, I think they can surmise some of what took place based off of physical evidence that they find
00:52:20
at the scene. Right. The other part of it is that you only have one living witness. That's very difficult because
00:52:30
as described, she's bound, she's on the floor, her head was covered at one point, may still have been covered for
00:52:38
the entirety of the time that she's in the back room. So her level of observance is compromised, right? At the
00:52:48
very least it's compromised. Now, what we do have is a report that has stood the test of time of saying that it is
00:52:56
believed and when I say believed, I got to believe this is coming from the witness.
00:53:01
It's believed that and thought that the the killer that the suspect was distracted
00:53:07
or as you said, like busy doing something else. And this brave woman, Rhoda, she
00:53:13
thought, you Again, probably at a at a desperation, it's either now or never, I can call 911 because you try to walk
00:53:24
in the the victim's shoes. Yeah. If you're in the victim's shoes, think about Listeners, think about this for a
00:53:31
second. You're face down in a back room in a large big box store. You've had a gun pointed at you, maybe
00:53:41
even poked with the the the barrel of this gun. You've been threatened. You don't
00:53:46
know what this individual's intentions are. You don't know if he's going to let you go. I think it would be natural,
00:53:53
captain, for for you to have a a complete change in thought and emotion, right? It I can see this being
00:54:04
where I'm lying there at one point going, "Okay, if I just If nobody pulls any [ __ ] this guy's just going to
00:54:11
leave, Right. >> and we're we're all going to be shook up, but we're we're going to we're going
00:54:16
to survive." And then at some point this changes, and I think it changed for Rhoda
00:54:23
that she goes, "I I have to call because this guy is losing it, and if if they don't get here soon, or if he does
00:54:30
You're probably praying that maybe even just the hearing the sirens come will be a deterrent for this
00:54:36
guy, and he he'll want to just up and leave and get the hell out of there. But unfortunately,
00:54:42
that is not what happened. Well, again, we don't know what the plan is, too, because
00:54:49
why is he getting more irritated? Yes, somebody attacks him, so at that moment you could go, "Well, he should be very
00:54:57
irritated. Somebody attacked him. He has a gun. I'm the authority. What the [ __ ]
00:55:01
do you think you're doing?" But once they're bound, what was causing him to lose control? Was there supposed to
00:55:12
be another in- individual that shows up? Was there not the the money he thought there was?
00:55:23
You know, what was his motivation here? And and again, we don't know what the the complete plan was. Was he going to
00:55:30
bound these individuals up and take money or whatever and just leave? And then the He hears the sirens and thinks,
00:55:36
"Oh, shit." And then just assassinates everybody? And I've thought about this a lot
00:55:42
because we've been doing the show for a long time. And people you go out to dinner. What do
00:55:48
you do? Oh, well, I do a true crime podcast. Oh, well, let me ask you this, and uh
00:55:56
what do you think would deter somebody? But it's every situation's different. And so as a victim, you could see
00:56:04
somebody coming into a bank or a retail space, and and you can then maybe assume that their motive is not
00:56:13
murder, but their motive is robbery. And you could probably assume the same thing in even in a house invasion.
00:56:24
Like the only So it's really hard to give like concrete advice of what I would do or
00:56:32
what I would suggest somebody to do because I do think the location of the crime
00:56:39
changes what I would do. This is maybe not my advice, but advice I've heard from
00:56:46
law enforcement time and time again. If somebody's trying to get you into a vehicle, do everything you can not to
00:56:52
get into that freaking vehicle. Like I said, I think the location would change because I think a lot of these
00:57:00
individuals' actions are all predicated on the location they're in. I think it's very this guy
00:57:07
was prepared to kill if he had to, but I don't think he planned to kill, and and
00:57:12
I can't say that with any great degree of certainty. I think that he thought that once he pulled the gun, that
00:57:21
everybody would just do what he said. They would become his puppets, and they would just lie there still on the
00:57:28
ground, and I think he kept he kept experiencing problems and and issues with that, and it I think it kept
00:57:37
mounting and mounting. I think he was already probably pretty stressed out before he entered the building, and that
00:57:43
stress level continued to grow in a very short period of time, and then now you have more people coming in. Again, we'll
00:57:50
get to some of this in in the theories part, but it's in this press release that we were just going
00:57:58
through, the the February 6th press release that the public learns for the first time where police say,
00:58:06
"We can now confirm reports that one of the victims was a target of sexual advances by the offender in that she was
00:58:14
fondled." These are their exact words. "There was no further sexual contact beyond that." And they go out of their
00:58:22
way to shoot down the idea that the suspect wore a red jacket. That must have been a
00:58:29
local rumor at the time. >> Right. They they they say it as this. "Secondly, a clearer picture of the
00:58:34
offender is coming to light. He is now described as having 3 to 5-in puffy cornrows that go back from the front of
00:58:43
his head with one strand of green beads hanging over his right cheek. He is also
00:58:49
described as being large-framed with weight proportionate to his height. Some reports have erroneously indicated the
00:58:56
subject wore a red jacket. That information is incorrect. The suspect wore a black jacket as was indicated in
00:59:03
the initial descriptions. I Again, not me, the report. I would like to stress this description is what the offender
00:59:11
looked like at the time of the crime on Saturday morning. We continue to investigate a large number of leads in
00:59:18
this case. We continue to request the public to call the tip line. At this time, we would like to read a
00:59:25
statement written by the surviving victim. Quote, "On Saturday, February 2nd, an unspeakable tragedy
00:59:35
occurred and five of the bravest women I have ever met were senselessly murdered
00:59:41
and taken from their families. My deepest sympathies and condolences go out to their families and friends.
00:59:49
Please know that during the unfathomable events of that day, their thoughts were focused
00:59:56
on you and coming home. My heart aches that they were unable to do so and I am working with the authorities in any way
01:00:05
possible for all of the victims. I ask that the media please respect all of our families and allow us to grieve and cope
01:00:14
privately with the horrific crime that ripped our worlds apart. I also ask that everyone respect that neither I nor
01:00:24
my family can discuss the horrible events of that day. I thank everybody who has expressed
01:00:32
concern and ask that any person who can assist in the investigation contact the authorities immediately.
01:00:50
We want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage. Join us back for the next episode as we return to the
01:00:56
scene of the crime and we take a deeper dive into the Lane Bryant killings. Join us back here in the garage. Until
01:01:04
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